[HN Gopher] DeepMind researcher: Existential catastrophe caused ...
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       DeepMind researcher: Existential catastrophe caused by AI is likely
       unavoidable
        
       Author : zonovar
       Score  : 9 points
       Date   : 2022-09-14 21:47 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.independent.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.independent.co.uk)
        
       | SilverBirch wrote:
       | The problem I have with this is that yes, I understand the
       | possibilty of peverse incentives, but let's look at our real
       | world experience. When we play a game with a smart animal or a
       | child and they figure out how to cheat in order to get their
       | reward we don't suddenly become lobotomized. We see their
       | cheating, and generally find it amusing or cute. In the same way
       | I think it's one thing to say that an AI might cheat to acheive a
       | goal, but it's a completely different thing to say it'll be
       | competent. Like all of this is really interesting, but it kind of
       | assumes a lot.
       | 
       | Let's say that this machine breaks out and decides to take over
       | the world to acheive whatever stupid task we've given it (I'm yet
       | to see an AI ethics paper that doesn't exclusively deal in stupid
       | tasks), do we really think that the AI is going to figure out
       | it's going to need to ensure it stabilizes the power grid before
       | it starts exponentially drawing power to collect buttons or
       | whatever it is?
       | 
       | What is much more likely from our experience is that a basic AGI
       | is going to do something really dumb. And then when we reboot it
       | it'll do something dumb 1000x more times. And maybe eventually
       | it'll do something almost as smart as us. This is what we term
       | childhood.
       | 
       | I think a core part of these ethical papers is that you suppose
       | an AI is generally intelligent, and that it is _much_ more
       | intelligent than anything plausible and never needs to learn from
       | experience. Let me tell you, I 'm pretty generally intelligent
       | and I've not taken over the world more times than I can count.
        
         | ALittleLight wrote:
         | I see the ultimate conclusion as "AGI is dangerous to humanity"
         | and your objection here is that "Probably the AI won't be
         | clever enough to seriously hurt humanity on its first attempt."
         | 
         | There are a couple problems with your objection. For example,
         | even in your imagination, the AI is just given "1000x times" to
         | keep learning, at which point, even with the weaknesses you
         | believe the AI will have, it will presumably be more
         | intelligent and capable than us, so really, your objection
         | doesn't refute the ultimate conclusion I mentioned above, your
         | objection just claims that there will be an additional phase
         | before a technically dangerous AI exists.
         | 
         | A bigger problem with your objection though is that your
         | reasoning applies to natural intelligence less than or equal to
         | our own. Your reasoning does not apply to artificial
         | intelligence, which may behave very differently, and it doesn't
         | apply to intelligence much greater than our own. GPT-3, for
         | example, when it was done training, exceeded human ability
         | instantly in many respects - what human can translate as
         | accurately between as many languages? Has as large a
         | vocabulary? Writes as quickly? etc. Why wouldn't it be the case
         | that a generally intelligent machine, on first use, is
         | substantially more generally intelligent than a human?
         | 
         | Finally, I don't even think objections like this one
         | meaningfully obstruct the ultimate conclusion - that AGI is
         | fundamentally dangerous. You could just imagine that the people
         | who are controlling the AGI, if they are able to, are people
         | other than your preferred controllers. If a team of computer
         | scientists develop AGI, and they manage to perfectly control
         | it, and they take it through the "childhood" period that you
         | imagine must exist, is that really any better? This team of
         | researchers will be the new omnipotent rulers of humanity. Even
         | without going to nanotech or exotic technology, we could
         | imagine they just automate robot soldiers and surveillance with
         | their aligned AGI, and the rest of humanity would be powerless
         | against them. And there is no reason to rule out exotic
         | technology, which might be possible, and might empower the
         | future rulers of humanity to unimaginable levels.
         | 
         | Not only does AGI need to be aligned with its operators, the
         | operators need to be aligned with humanity, and neither of
         | those seem plausible.
        
         | pantojax45 wrote:
         | The difference is that AI could speed up its evolutionary rate
         | and not have the same constraints as living organisms.
         | 
         | If you can multiply rapidly and self-organize, you can
         | outcompete humanity.
        
           | SilverBirch wrote:
           | Not if you're interacting with the real world. This is like
           | software startups trying to get into hardware, it suddenyl
           | becomes incredibly difficult because you need to actually
           | interact with the world. You can iterate an incredible number
           | of times with your software model in a blink of my eye, but
           | that's not going to help you if the hydro-electric damn that
           | you didn't know about suddenly goes offline.
        
           | kranke155 wrote:
           | As long as human beings have control of the energy grid and
           | the physical world, how are AIs going to outcompete us in a
           | way detrimental to our interests ?
           | 
           | Last case scenario we can always find them and delete them. ?
        
             | runnerup wrote:
             | At historical rates of power-efficiency scaling (which
             | haven't changed much in the past 10 years either) ... by
             | 2040 we'll have the currently estimated computational power
             | of a human brain (~1 exaflop) running on a 20Watt
             | processor, which is about as much as an iPhone CPU uses.
             | 
             | It's not guaranteed that some AI supercomputer will be
             | using megawatts of electricity and couldn't siphon what it
             | needs from small parasitic loads.
        
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