[HN Gopher] DuckDuckGo, Proton, Mozilla back bill targeting Big ...
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       DuckDuckGo, Proton, Mozilla back bill targeting Big Tech
       'surveillance'
        
       Author : mikece
       Score  : 177 points
       Date   : 2022-09-14 13:54 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.techradar.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.techradar.com)
        
       | tacotacotaco wrote:
       | From the bill's summary, "... prohibits the platform from
       | restricting access to platform data generated by the activity of
       | a competing business user." This sounds like it eliminates iOS's
       | App Tracking Transparency.
        
       | SamuelAdams wrote:
       | Actual source:
       | 
       | https://spreadprivacy.com/privacy-companies-call-for-vote/
        
       | mikece wrote:
       | Too bad Fastmail isn't on this list: I really like their email
       | service.
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | Yeah, i half expected a bunch of "smaller" companies - like in
         | the email space but not only email - to add their support as
         | well. Would be really cool, if tons of smaller firms rally like
         | mad around this, and make PR headlines to bring tons of
         | attention to the lawmakers. Fingers crossed!
        
         | GoblinSlayer wrote:
         | Don't they provide unique aliases? That's a competitive
         | advantage over protonmail in case of surveillance.
        
           | encryptluks2 wrote:
           | ProtonMail purchased SimpleLogin which is a great email alias
           | service.
        
             | clairity wrote:
             | i'd incidentally just learned about this a few days ago,
             | posted here (with no traction):
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32782944 , which in
             | turn links out to https://simplelogin.io/blog/simplelogin-
             | join-proton/
             | 
             | they have a limited free tier and a paid tier. i felt a
             | little uneasy about the emails seemingly going through
             | another set of servers (in plaintext?) for the filtering so
             | i didn't sign up, but would love to hear other
             | perspectives.
        
               | encryptluks2 wrote:
               | I absolutely love SimpleLogin. It is open source as well,
               | so if for some reason the SaaS platform ceases then you
               | can use a VPS. They support PGP encryption and hiding
               | subjects too. They also have an open source app in the
               | Fdroid marketplace.
        
           | artificialLimbs wrote:
           | Yes.
        
         | b3morales wrote:
         | Fastmail is an Australian company. Granted Proton isn't based
         | in the US either, but their whole schtick is privacy, whereas
         | Fastmail is "just" a commercial email provider. Note I have
         | nothing against them, just saying there's no particular reason
         | for this US legislation to be in their focus.
        
           | rediguanayum wrote:
           | They have a US office. Fastmail's "schtick" is that they very
           | much support open IETF standards which I admire. Their CEO,
           | Bron Gondwana, is a frequent participant at the IETF.
           | 
           | Disclaimer: I work for a competitor of theirs, but work with
           | Fastmail folks on standards development.
        
       | ghastmaster wrote:
       | Here is the text of the act.
       | 
       | https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3816...
       | 
       | The privacy and "surveillance" aspect only comes into play
       | because these large platforms can pick and choose who they allow
       | on their service, denying end users access to privacy protecting
       | services.
       | 
       | I use some of these services on big platforms. Right now, I do
       | not see a need for legislation to fix the problem. I hate to see
       | more legislation and regulation in general. Duckduckgo and Proton
       | are doing great. In twenty years it is totally possible that they
       | become the next Apple or Google. They can create the competition
       | and allow users to make the choice. I would love to see a
       | ProtonPhone.
        
         | franczesko wrote:
         | "I hate to see more legislation and regulation in general"
         | 
         | With the same approach we would still have child labor in
         | factories...
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | And no net neutrality.
        
             | somenameforme wrote:
             | Net neutrality was terminated in the US at the end of 2017,
             | and this remains the case. An executive order in 2021 did
             | not change this.
        
           | belfalas wrote:
           | I used to think this was a compelling argument.
           | Unfortunately, child labor is really good economics. So is
           | slavery.
           | 
           | An economics textbook I studied at university calculated the
           | value of a slave in the US before the Civil War. Conclusion?
           | "Perhaps it is a good thing they did not try to quantize back
           | then. Slavery was profitable."
        
             | sammax wrote:
             | What does child labour and slavery being profitable have to
             | do with whether "without regulations we'd still have child
             | labour" is a compelling argument?
        
             | ghastmaster wrote:
             | At the micro level it may sound like good economics.
             | Slavery is not good macro economics. For example, slaves in
             | the US south were intelligent human beings that had they
             | been in the free market with their ideas and efficient use
             | of time and labor, the south would have advanced beyond
             | plantations at a similar rate to the north prior to the US
             | civil war.
        
               | troon-lover wrote:
        
               | folkrav wrote:
               | We should tell this to Dubai's migrant workers.
        
           | ghastmaster wrote:
           | Sexual harassment laws existed prior to the "me too"
           | movement. Known harassers were still in positions within
           | their companies. The cultural movement helped change the
           | tolerance of this behavior. I sincerely doubt that anything
           | but a small minority of children would be toiling away in
           | factories today in the USA.
           | 
           | In todays litigious USA, children would come with too much
           | liability to employ in many many settings. Children are quite
           | capable of doing many different jobs. Total exclusion from
           | the workplace delays the earnings, experience, learning, and
           | networking of people.
           | 
           | Child labor laws have made exceptions for performers for some
           | reason. I think most people would agree that this is fine.
           | Why have we not made exceptions for other areas of work?
           | 
           | A less regulated child labor market would find those
           | exceptions naturally.
        
             | skyyler wrote:
             | A small minority already toils away in factories in the
             | USA:
             | 
             | >In fiscal year 2021, the division found 2,819 minors
             | employed in violation of the law and assessed employers
             | with nearly $3.4 million in civil money penalties.
             | 
             | https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20220729
             | 
             | If it was legal it would be very widespread and you're
             | lying to yourself if you say otherwise.
        
             | cabbagesauce wrote:
             | Oh come on, let's just admit that USA is much more sex-
             | obsessed than the rest of the world..
        
               | Crash0v3rid3 wrote:
               | Do you have any data at all to back this up?
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | > I would love to see a ProtonPhone.
         | 
         | Depending on what you mean here, it might already exist:
         | https://puri.sm/products/librem-5.
        
           | nilespotter wrote:
           | I really want to try this... but at $700, not $2000.
        
             | fsflover wrote:
             | It's $1300 for the standard version, not $2000.
             | Alternatively, there is less performant
             | https://pine64.org/pinephone.
        
       | Stamp01 wrote:
       | Why is the word "surveillance" in quotes? Is calling it
       | surveillance controversial at this point?
        
       | yumraj wrote:
       | Shouldn't Apple be here too, given their _public stance_ on
       | privacy?
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | I suppose they lose some competitive advantage if being-mass-
         | scale-creepy-stalker is no longer the norm (or, indeed, legal)
         | in the rest of the industry.
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | >Shouldn't Apple be here too, given their public stance on
         | privacy?
         | 
         | Keyword, "public".
        
         | hericium wrote:
         | This is a joke, right? Tim Cook is on an anti-privacy spree,
         | using some ridiculous "children protection" slogans as a
         | pretense for invasive, user-hostile changes.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | Link for those unaware:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28309202.
        
         | mikece wrote:
         | Apple talks privacy as a selling point but their actions leave
         | a lot to be desired. They collect MASSIVE amounts of data about
         | their users, possibly as much as Google does. Since Apple is
         | raking in gigantic profits from high-margin products there's
         | little motivation for them to try to monetize the data of their
         | users, but there is absolutely nothing that would prevent them
         | from doing so if they desired.
        
           | Tozen wrote:
           | Very good points. Additionally, Apple's silence speaks
           | volumes as to what they are really about.
        
           | clairity wrote:
           | apple is still the least bad option, but make no mistake,
           | their longer term strategy is all-in on services and content,
           | which means becoming more invasive over time.
           | 
           | i'm planning to get one more iphone (a 14 pro) but it's
           | likely to be my last because of this direction. really hoping
           | that the independent phone developers (pinephone, fairphone,
           | etc.) have a decent consumer (not just techie) offering by
           | the time i need the next phone after that.
        
         | NoFactualActual wrote:
         | Doesn't apple own an ad network? You can't even restrict which
         | apps are allowed to use the internet in the first place, which
         | is a gaping security hole in the context of protecting you from
         | the apps you have on your phone. They aren't exactly pro-
         | privacy.
        
           | orangepurple wrote:
           | To add to this, it's pretty convenient to firewall Android
           | apps with AFWall+
        
         | nr2x wrote:
         | iCloud backups go to Apple as plain text by default because it
         | lets them give data to cops and FBI. Apples privacy stance is
         | marketing, pure and simple.
         | 
         | The FBI asked, Apple delivered:
         | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | Conspicuously missing is the EFF, who masquerades as a privacy
       | watchdog which is actually there to promote anti-regulation of
       | telecoms and other big tech and has historically accepted
       | millions from FAANG and their leaders' charities.
        
       | stonogo wrote:
       | This is the first time I've seen a American news platform use the
       | British version of "tabling." In US Congress, "tabling a bill"
       | effectively means suspending action on it indefinitely. Only in
       | British English is a bill "tabled for discussion."
        
         | parineum wrote:
         | I (an American) was actually unaware that "tabled" could mean
         | the same as "shelved". I'd always heard those used as antonyms
         | but I've also only really heard the word "tabled" used as it
         | was in the articled, "tabled for discussion".
         | 
         | I'm a bit suspicious I've heard it phrased that way for
         | clarity's sake. Probably some good editors behind that.
        
           | rhacker wrote:
           | American here. Tabling to me means putting it on hold and
           | coming back to it later when we have other things figured
           | out.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | It's an autoantonym, but one where different Englishes have
           | chosen different preferences. Like "moot."
        
             | triceratops wrote:
             | Is "moot" an autoantonym? It just takes a different meaning
             | depending on if it's a verb or an adjective.
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | It always has the _same_ meaning if you squint hard
               | enough (like many autoantonyms.) A very similar meaning
               | to  "tabled", which is why it came to mind.
               | 
               | If a question is moot, it has been proposed but isn't
               | necessarily useful. It could be because it was a question
               | about a decision that has already been taken, or it could
               | be because it's the first time the question has been
               | asked.
               | 
               | If a motion has been tabled, it is an issue that is
               | pending a decision (on the table.) When Americans table a
               | motion, they're saying that the _only thing_ currently
               | being done with the issue is to leave it on the table
               | (active) to be dealt with later. When others table a
               | motion, they 're putting it on the table to be dealt with
               | now.
               | 
               | Americans leave things on the table to be dealt with,
               | others put things on the table to be dealt with.
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-14 23:02 UTC)