[HN Gopher] FB feed is 98% suggested pages and barely any friend...
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       FB feed is 98% suggested pages and barely any friends' posts
        
       Author : Erikun
       Score  : 631 points
       Date   : 2022-09-13 16:25 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (old.reddit.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (old.reddit.com)
        
       | varelse wrote:
        
       | revskill wrote:
       | FB is still doing good job ! It's finding its way to the real
       | death of social media. Thanks Mark and the team !
        
       | colordrops wrote:
       | I recall discussions of this problem years ago. I did a measure
       | of what percentage of my feed was actual content with friends and
       | it was roughly the same as this current measure. I'll have to go
       | through my comments and find it.
        
       | monkpit wrote:
       | I have noticed this also, I got around it by clicking "feeds"
       | instead of browsing my default feed via "home". The "feeds" tab
       | doesn't seem to give me any of these suggested pages.
        
       | kyleblarson wrote:
       | People still use Facebook?
        
       | vlod wrote:
       | Looks like this is using the FB app, which the users has little
       | control over.
       | 
       | I don't use FB or Instagram anymore, but when I did, I used
       | Firefox, so I could at least use uBlock or a Tampermoney script.
        
       | thrdbndndn wrote:
       | We're posting Reddit thread with exaggerated number and zero
       | detail now?
       | 
       | I know FB is bad but come on.
        
       | bluetidepro wrote:
       | Same. This also stems from the fact that no one I know (outside
       | of my Boomer parents) even uses Facebook anymore, so Facebook has
       | next to no "real" data to use like they used to. I've even
       | started noticing this on Instagram, as well. Back in the prime of
       | Facebook there was so much content to use from friends they could
       | fill a feed and even "curate" it, but now I think majority of my
       | friends post AT MOST 1 time a YEAR on Facebook. With the lack of
       | data, they have to just fill it with nonsense to make it look
       | "interesting", but my guess is that it fools very little people.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Very true. There was a segment where the news asked a bunch of
         | kids (like actual kids - not 25 year olds people just want to
         | shit talk about) and hilariously this one little boy just yells
         | "FACEBOOK?!?! THATS FOR OLD PEOPLE!!!"
        
       | Melatonic wrote:
       | So glad I deleted that crap years and years ago.
       | 
       | Also you can deactivate your account and still use the separate
       | messenger app
        
       | Vrondi wrote:
       | Yes, Facebook seems to be determined to get rid of as many users
       | as possible by eliminating their core functionality.
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | I mean Facebook is a dying platform. All the fake numbers won't
       | make a difference.
        
         | micromacrofoot wrote:
         | "death" in this case will likely be quite slow, they're still a
         | 100+ billion dollar company and are still the largest social
         | network by quite a large number (hundreds of millions)
        
         | antegamisou wrote:
         | Mind you, communities/groups, obviously imitating subreddits,
         | as well as the marketplace are saving it quite well from ending
         | up like MySpace/Hi5. It's also evident that there has been a
         | significant boomer infestation to the userbase the past 10
         | years.
        
           | cpsns wrote:
           | The communities/groups are significantly higher quality than
           | the average subreddit, especially for niche subjects.
           | 
           | Frankly they're the only thing I use Facebook for, because
           | the people on hobby groups are way more knowledgeable than
           | those on reddit and they largely don't tolerate meme posts.
        
             | bbarn wrote:
             | yeah, 90% of what I use it for is my internal group from my
             | work friends about who's taking what shift on my side job,
             | and Volkswagen repair groups - which are an absolute gold
             | mine of experience and info.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | Didn't Myspace think it was going to save itself with the
           | music it eventually accidentally deleted?
        
       | darth_avocado wrote:
       | Yes it's a negative feedback loop created by the very bad product
       | decisions they made to optimize for local maxima of getting more
       | ads revenue. You inject more and more ads followed by more and
       | more suggested content, thereby reducing the in network content.
       | The in network content doesn't get as much of traction, therefore
       | people stop posting. This in turn forces the feed to have more
       | and more suggestions and a few stale in network posts from days
       | ago. This drives engagement down from people who want to see in
       | network content and they leave. So what is left is people who do
       | engage with suggested content, pushing the product to make
       | decisions to push even more suggested content. All of this
       | continues till eventually fatigue sets in and a sudden rapid drop
       | in engagement kicks in because your global maxima of a quality
       | product was lost long time ago and your product dies.
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | It's not just the ad revenue or suggested content. FB's most
         | sticky offerings are groups and pages. Well, FB actively hides
         | posts in these _to their own followers_. You end up having to
         | pay just sponsor messages _to your own group_.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | I quit FB a few years ago when I realized the suggested posts
         | were just way more interesting than anything my friends posted.
         | Idk what that says about their algorithm. Or my friends.
        
           | ericraio wrote:
           | Instagram turned into being what Facebook was supposed to be.
        
             | umeshunni wrote:
             | and now it's moving away from that and pushing more
             | suggested content.
             | 
             | The death spiral is:
             | 
             | 1. Show friends content to attract users
             | 
             | 2. Realize that friends don't product enough content to
             | increase engagement.
             | 
             | 3. Start introducing suggested content to increase
             | engagement
             | 
             | 4. Friend stop producing content since their content is
             | deprioritized and not getting engagement
             | 
             | 5. Now your feed is full of suggested content and isn't
             | interesting any more
             | 
             | 6. You leave and find another platform
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | Almost like building a business around "engagement" is a
               | model that leads to a death spiral. Social media sites
               | are basically giant MLM schemes that sell the idea that
               | become real companies before the scheme runs out.
        
               | languageserver wrote:
               | ahhh,,... I would say billions in revenue makes it
               | anything but. A short lived idea, maybe, a novelty, maybe
        
               | _dain_ wrote:
               | Reminds me of Gresham's Law[1]: "Bad Money Drives Out
               | Good".
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law
        
           | BeFlatXIII wrote:
           | I was going to disagree with the GP for the same reason you
           | pointed out. I liked all the page and group posts because
           | they were funny and not someone I haven't spoken to eight
           | years planning their wedding in public. There aren't as many
           | organic posts from my friends to share anymore.
        
         | benjaminwootton wrote:
         | LinkedIn went through the same algorithm led spiral of decline.
         | 
         | Initially, they seemed to stop pushing out good on topic
         | content. Instead, they rewarded and promoted Facebook style
         | posts and made up stories probably due to metrics and A/B
         | tests.
         | 
         | The good authentic posters then either stopped posting or had
         | to feed the beast by pushing out the same crappy content in the
         | house style which the algorithm rewards.
         | 
         | Almost everyone on there now is writing purely for the
         | algorithm and not their industry peers whether they realise
         | that or not. They are just chasing the doamine hit of likes.
         | 
         | The product is worse for it and I'm sure it ultimately kills
         | the golden goose for social platforms despite a short term
         | uplift. They become much less engaging and sticky when the
         | social element is lost.
        
           | projektfu wrote:
           | When LinkedIn arrived, it seemed like a good idea -- sort of
           | a way for people who aren't great at networking to see how to
           | expand their network. Then, like any dating site, you needed
           | to buy credits to participate, and only "players" are willing
           | to do that. Then, they erased any additional value brought by
           | their thought leaders by promoting third-rate content with
           | catchy headlines like you mentioned. Now, why would I trust
           | them with my resume? And if I have no interest in them,
           | likely anything else on there is either out of date or some
           | sort of lie.
           | 
           | Friendster, Myspace, Orkut, Facebook.... Similar things for
           | social. Use the network to find more people to hang out with,
           | feel less alone. But then, again, that is not actually a
           | business and people aren't paying for it. So, you either show
           | generic ads (not a bad idea) or you get people to pay to get
           | their content in front of you. But then people stop caring
           | about what they see there and move on.
           | 
           | I agree with other posters -- I used to keep Facebook around
           | because my family was there. Now I don't even see their posts
           | when I'm on it. So, there's no value anymore.
        
         | fairity wrote:
         | No, this isn't a consequence of the status quo newsfeed
         | algorithm. This is a consequence of Facebook making a
         | purposeful strategic shift away from in-network content to
         | suggested content. This strategic shift was highlighted in
         | their last earnings call as a way to compete with TikTok, whose
         | success is partly explained by their focus on suggested
         | content. On the earnings call, they signaled that they were
         | shifting more to a mix of the two content styles in the coming
         | quarters, but the OP is likely enrolled in some sort of test
         | that is giving them 98%.
         | 
         | See the below excerpt from Meta's Q2 earnings call:
         | 
         | "One of the main transformations in our business right now is
         | that social feeds are going from being driven primarily by the
         | people and accounts you follow to increasingly also being
         | driven by AI recommending content that you'll find interesting
         | from across Facebook or Instagram, even if you don't follow
         | those creators. Social content from people you know is going to
         | remain an important part of the experience and some of our most
         | differentiated content. But increasingly, we'll also be able to
         | supplement that with other interesting content from across our
         | networks. Reels is one part of this trend that focuses on the
         | growth of short-form video as a content format."
        
           | yamrzou wrote:
           | Yes, here is a chronology of key events:
           | 
           | 2020 -- Facebook launches its TikTok rival, Instagram Reels:
           | https://www.axios.com/2020/08/05/facebook-launches-its-
           | tikto...
           | 
           | 2021 -- TikTok overtakes Facebook as world's most downloaded
           | app: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/TikTok-
           | overtakes...
           | 
           | Feb. 2022 -- Facebook loses users for the first time in its
           | history -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/02/
           | 02/faceboo...
           | 
           | July 2022 -- Facebook and Instagram are going to show even
           | more posts from accounts you don't follow --
           | https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/27/23281451/facebook-
           | instagr...
           | 
           | July 2022 -- Instagram knows you don't like its changes. It
           | doesn't care. -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/20
           | 22/07/27/instagr...
        
             | alistairSH wrote:
             | Mid-2021, I stop using FB for anything beyond Marketplace.
             | 
             | Mid-2022, I find Instagram to be just as useless as FB.
             | 
             | I find I'm spending far less time on big social platforms.
             | And a little more time in niche web forums. And I mostly
             | feel better (sanity-wise) for it.
        
               | birdyrooster wrote:
               | Discord has completely displaced the need for other
               | social media in my experience. And they get hundreds of
               | dollars per year from me. If this isn't a winning model,
               | I don't know what is.
        
               | effingwewt wrote:
               | It's a failure out of the box for me, as it silo's
               | information and once a server is gone so is that info.
               | 
               | The gatekeepers on some of the more popular gaming
               | servers (where they know they are more necessary than
               | usual) are reddit levels.
        
               | sshine wrote:
               | It's a winning model.
               | 
               | Who would have thought that paying for something is
               | correlated with positive expectation of outcome?
               | 
               | Someone should formalise this business model.
               | 
               | I'm just spitballing, but I might call it: Doing
               | business.
               | 
               | I'm not sure what's going on with internet ads.
               | 
               | I've blocked them everywhere I can.
        
             | pmayrgundter wrote:
             | Maybe? Beuller?
        
           | bazeblackwood wrote:
           | Bad strategy, imo. Sounds like they should have tried to
           | answer why people used their product in the first place. "A
           | competitor does it" isn't a valid excuse--its like suggesting
           | The French Laundry switch to fast food because McDonald's is
           | a competitor.
        
             | fnordpiglet wrote:
             | I think your analogy is too generous. It's more like
             | putting an engine on your stapler because people buy cars
             | more often than staplers at a higher margin despite having
             | a monopoly in the stapler market.
        
             | JediLuke wrote:
        
             | kolbe wrote:
             | They also need to be honest with themselves about whether
             | TikTok is a competitor, or if TT has simply won a
             | completely different business that happens to take
             | customers' finite resources (time) from Facebook.
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | When you're an ads-funded social media company, is there
               | a difference?
        
               | tofflos wrote:
               | I think it's pretty cleat cut. They're competing
               | attention farms. How we the product perceive them doesn't
               | matter.
        
             | mingfli wrote:
             | The French Laundry is a very niche product, which Facebook
             | is not. I think a more apt analogy is suggesting McDonald's
             | to include more "healthy" options or a coffee bar because
             | the competitors do it and it's a successful business
             | strategy.
        
               | rightbyte wrote:
               | More liking pushing "healthy" options in your face in the
               | menu and hiding the BigMac & Co in some obscure small
               | print somewhere.
               | 
               | "Do you want plus sized carrots with your meal?"
        
               | mingfli wrote:
               | Not saying either is a good strategy, I'd rather see more
               | posts from my friends than random pages. Just pointing
               | out the analogy.
        
           | derefr wrote:
           | > but the OP is likely enrolled in some sort of test that is
           | giving them 98%.
           | 
           | Couldn't it just be that suggested content is not only placed
           | "between" in-network posts to achieve a certain minimum
           | ratio, but also some small number of suggested-content posts
           | are inserted at a constant drip into your feed (e.g. every N
           | minutes in the feed's timeline) to ensure a certain minimum
           | absolute amount of advertising happens per day per account?
           | 
           | Which would mean that, if all your friends are people who
           | don't post very much on FB any more, there could be 50
           | dripped in suggested-content posts (to achieve the minimum
           | absolute suggested posts per day) for each one in-network
           | post.
           | 
           | Even without "ensuring a minimum absolute amount of
           | advertising", I presume this would have to be happening on
           | some level, to ensure that anyone who tries to use Facebook
           | "like TikTok" (effectively an RSS reader for suggested
           | content), ends up with a non-empty feed.
        
           | TrevorJ wrote:
           | Facebook is the fax machine.
           | 
           | The real danger FB finds themselves in is that the initial
           | value prop (make and maintain your friendships with less
           | friction) is LONG gone.
           | 
           | Instead, they are relying almost entirely on the network
           | effect now. You have to be on Facebook because your grandma
           | is on Facebook. This is not sustainable long-term, for
           | obvious and perhaps morbid reasons.
        
           | wolpoli wrote:
           | Has anyone kept track of the number of times they shifted the
           | Facebook newsfeed algorithm?
           | 
           | At different point in time, the feed prioritized: posts from
           | friends, posts from games from your friends, friends' sharing
           | of links to compete with Twitter, videos to compete with
           | Youtube, moments to compete with Snapchat, comments that
           | friends made, posts from friends again as growth slows down
           | 
           | I wonder what percentage of users drift off every time they
           | shifted the algorithm.
        
           | wnevets wrote:
           | > This is a consequence of Facebook making a purposeful
           | strategic shift away from in-network content to suggested
           | content.
           | 
           | In an ironic twist these changes has made it much easier for
           | me to stop using Facebook and Instagram. My usage was never
           | high to begin with but some people in my life only used those
           | apps and I wanted to stay connected. Now every single time I
           | visit either of those apps and I see suggested content I
           | close the app and move on with my day.
        
           | itake wrote:
           | I think the crux is do users want to see in-network or out-
           | of-network posts?
           | 
           | FB's bet (that tiktok user behavior validates) is high
           | quality out-of-network creates higher engagement than in-
           | network content.
        
         | ajsnigrutin wrote:
         | This is easily solved by having 'suggested content' (ads) once
         | every (eg.) 10 posts from friends. 28 ads in a row is a total
         | overkill
        
         | drc500free wrote:
         | Slightly pedantic - this is a POSITIVE feedback loop, with an
         | unwanted outcome. A negative feedback loop would be self
         | correcting.
        
         | greatpostman wrote:
         | This is basically the flaw in A/B testing
        
         | voisin wrote:
         | Sounds a lot like Google Search results. It's almost as if
         | advertising dollars are an addictive drug that ultimately kills
         | the company.
        
           | jpalomaki wrote:
           | For those annyoyed with ads on Google search, Kagi [1] is
           | worth trying. It's not free, but does not show ads and uses
           | the Google index behind the scenes. I've been using it on
           | desktop for few months and have no complaints.
           | 
           | [1] https://kagi.com/
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > uses the Google index behind the scenes
             | 
             | Does it give better results than Google? I find Google's
             | results to be pretty horrible, and worry that if Kagi is
             | using Google's index, then I wouldn't get better results
             | with them.
        
           | scarmig wrote:
           | It actively makes the product worse. E.g. from yesterday, if
           | I search for "high tc record," I'm not looking for the set of
           | bedsheets with the greatest number of threads.
        
             | mindcrime wrote:
             | _if I search for "high tc record," I'm not looking for the
             | set of bedsheets with the greatest number of threads._
             | 
             | FWIW, I would also have no idea what that search is
             | supposed to return.
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | But you don't have a 20-year dossier of almost every web
               | site he's visited; a list of 90% of his credit card
               | purchases; an AI scrutinizing every photo he's ever been
               | in that's been in, or in the background of, on the
               | internet; a list of his previous searches; and a list of
               | the places he's brought his cell phone.
               | 
               | To improve user experience.
        
               | Arnt wrote:
               | Google says it spends about 0.3Wh per search, of which
               | roughly one third is for scraping and two thirds for the
               | search. I think you may be overestimating how much
               | processing they could do with that budget (assuming they
               | want to do that significant user-based tweaking, which is
               | IMO not a given).
        
               | nomat wrote:
               | Ken Liu's "The Perfect Match" is a sci-fi short story
               | about this topic.
               | 
               | https://gizmodo.com/lightspeed-presents-the-perfect-
               | match-by...
        
             | actually_a_dog wrote:
             | You know you spend/have spent too much time on Blind when
             | you immediately think "TC" means "total compensation."
        
             | JustLurking2022 wrote:
             | In fairness, reading your search term, I had no idea what
             | you were talking about so it's not entirely surprising the
             | organic content producers don't match those terms well.
             | Looks like the SEO folks do though.
        
               | ericraio wrote:
               | Google is supposed to be able to understand this given
               | how much data they collect on individuals and the web.
        
               | blowski wrote:
               | Perhaps there are multiple groups searching with the same
               | terms, but expecting completely different results. Google
               | takes its best guess at which group you're in. To get
               | better at that they have to gather more info about you
               | personally. I'd prefer to change my search query than
               | give lots of extra personal data to Google.
        
               | jacobolus wrote:
               | Works fine in DDG:
               | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22high+tc%22+record
               | 
               | Edit: and also Google:
               | https://www.google.com/search?q=%22high%20tc%22%20record
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | What are we looking for here? The results seem equally as
               | confusing as the query
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | jacobolus wrote:
               | The other commenter was obviously interested in the
               | record for high-temperature superconductors.
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
               | temperature_superconducti...
               | 
               | Or perhaps more generally for materials with a high Curie
               | temperature,
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curie_temperature
               | 
               | Disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about this field.
        
               | topaz0 wrote:
               | Then again, Tc means different things in different
               | fields. E.g. critical temperatures for all kinds of
               | critical phase transitions. Note that the google search
               | you posted above gives results for various phase
               | transitions many of which are not superconducting phase
               | transitions. I also was lost when I saw the original
               | query.
        
               | callmeal wrote:
               | Tc is the high temperature for superconductivity. I
               | noticed this about google a long time ago - they started
               | "dumbing" down their search results. Don't blame them
               | because that's where the money is, but it is annoying
               | when you're searching for something and the results are
               | full of celebrities because someone famous happened to
               | say something like your search term.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
               | temperature_superconducti...
        
               | antisthenes wrote:
               | > Looks like the SEO folks do though.
               | 
               | Pretty sure at least 80% (probably 95%+) of low-quality
               | SEO content is generated by computers, or at least by
               | very low-skill outsourced labor in a machine-assisted
               | way.
               | 
               | It then makes sense that the mature Internet can probably
               | match any search query in a manner that leads to a site
               | that sells something vaguely matching the query, through
               | sheer quantity of available content.
               | 
               | In other words - there is enough SEO content generated
               | and indexed that most queries will be able to be
               | monetized by a search engine like Google.
        
             | lizknope wrote:
             | I have no idea what you are expecting from "high tc record"
             | 
             | I'm getting links about the highest temperature on earth
             | and it is listing it in Fahrenheit so if the "tc" means
             | "temperature celsius" it is failing for me.
             | 
             | All the other links are about high temperature
             | superconductors.
        
               | kidme5 wrote:
               | https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Curie_temperature
        
               | lizknope wrote:
               | These are the top 2 links I get
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest_temperature_recorde
               | d_o...
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
               | temperature_superconducti...
               | 
               | "High-temperature superconductors (abbreviated high-Tc"
               | 
               | Seems like google search is working quite well if the
               | second link is what the person wanted.
        
             | llbeansandrice wrote:
             | > high tc record
             | 
             | I don't know what you are trying to search for. A record
             | for total compensation? Something related to Tesla coils?
             | Turing Complete? Thread Count is a totally valid
             | interpretation.
        
             | drcongo wrote:
             | My next single, High TC, doesn't come out for another
             | month. You'll be able to search for it then.
        
           | jqgatsby wrote:
           | I agree. More generally, any business model where your users
           | and your customers are disjoint sets will cause a
           | misalignment of interests that generates an ever-increasing
           | negative feedback loop. It seems like it can take a long time
           | to play out though.
        
           | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
           | Except Search volume and MAUs are still growing like a weed,
           | whereas FB's growth has slowed dramatically.
           | 
           | Search is not perfect, for sure. It has different problems.
        
           | Invictus0 wrote:
           | But at least now a few MBAs can put "increased revenue at
           | Meta by X%" on their resume!
        
           | edgyquant wrote:
           | It's the resource curse in corporate form
        
           | mtgx wrote:
        
           | whywhywhywhy wrote:
           | Never thought I'd see the day, but I actually use Yandex for
           | image search now because they basically deliver the google
           | image search experience of a decade ago. While Google Images
           | has had no one with Vision in charge and been tweaked, buffed
           | and downgraded to the point of uselessness. And you can tell
           | no one on the team actually uses it.
           | 
           | Google Search could honestly be dethroned if someone really
           | wanted to. The usage at this point is habit, not because it's
           | still a good search engine.
        
             | krferriter wrote:
             | I've noticed recently Google image search has gotten
             | surprisingly terrible for some things. I use Bing image
             | search when the Google image search lets me down. Haven't
             | tried Yandex.
        
             | 6510 wrote:
             | I still weekly make the mistake to try to find something
             | that I know to exist. Sometimes I know there are hundreds
             | of pages on the topic. I type query after query, again and
             | again, nothing shows up. It's like in the 90's, I tell
             | stories about.. I forget his name and the place, when it
             | happened but it was something like this and that. pfft!
             | 
             | edit: I just attempted to look up what kind of taxes on has
             | to pay if one receives donations. I cant carve out a query
             | that gives me anything other than tax deductible donations.
             | The "receiving" part is completely ignored.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | --that coupled with inability to realize that blasting ads at
           | people doesnt make your product look better, it makes your
           | product a source of frustration, and a daily/hourly
           | annoyance, your product is associated with bad, and is
           | avoided.
           | 
           | the answer to the problem includes the concept of less is
           | more.
        
             | edgyquant wrote:
             | Not really since no one's cares about the annoyances-if
             | they did no company would run ads but the exact opposite is
             | true
        
           | duped wrote:
           | Which companies were killed by ads?
        
             | bikson wrote:
             | Digg?
        
             | timr wrote:
             | Yahoo comes to mind.
        
             | ycta2334209 wrote:
             | Tumblr - banned 18+ content in 2018(?) in an attempt to
             | make their site more advertiser-friendly and lost most of
             | their userbase within a couple of months. Site was thriving
             | before that.
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | This is a dishonest answer. Tumblr died because it's
               | niche was adult content. Banning your niche is choosing
               | to fail.
        
           | topaz0 wrote:
           | Or maybe profit is an addictive drug that kills the company
        
           | csw-001 wrote:
           | I'm not sure it's the advertising dollars that are addictive
           | as much as it is "growth". To keep the stock price up you
           | have sustain a PE that reflects revenue growth, and once you
           | are done signing up new users... Well... Something's got to
           | give.
           | 
           | I see the ads as a lot like cutting timber out of a finite
           | forest - it's profitable, but potentially harmful to the
           | ecosystem in a way that can make it unsustainable. As long as
           | you don't cut too much, replant aggressively, then you can
           | make a sustainable business out of it - but it doesn't scale
           | past the point where your harm to the ecosystem causes
           | collapse. Once people exit FB because it's all ads, then the
           | network benefits begin to evaporate, a little bit at first,
           | then all at once...
           | 
           | Then again I don't run a social media company, so what do I
           | know. ;-)
        
             | nostromo wrote:
             | Amazon seems to have taken a different route.
             | 
             | Keep margins low and don't make too much money in order to
             | starve any potential competitors of capital.
             | 
             | Of course - you still need to grow revenue for this to work
             | - just not profits.
        
               | danudey wrote:
               | Doesn't help that their recommendations are always "Oh,
               | you bought an air conditioner? Come look at this wide
               | variety of other air conditioners we have!" rather than,
               | say, adapters for connecting air conditioners to
               | different window types or home electricity usage
               | monitoring or something.
        
               | nostromo wrote:
               | This is a common complaint. The reason they do it is
               | because... it works!
               | 
               | It can be counter-intuitive but this is often seen in
               | recommendation systems. In music for example, the song
               | most likely to be played after a song is... that same
               | song again.
        
               | danaris wrote:
               | It may work in the general case.
               | 
               | However, it is _painfully_ clear that there are _very
               | obvious categories_ of products that it does not work on.
               | 99% of the time, if someone buys a refrigerator, they
               | will not be interested in buying another refrigerator.
               | 
               | It would _not_ be that difficult for Amazon to detect
               | these product types and give other kinds of
               | recommendations for them. Unless their algorithms and the
               | data that drive them are much, _much_ less comprehensive
               | than they want us to believe.
        
               | GartzenDeHaes wrote:
               | It seems to me that Amazon has the same problem, but with
               | their physical products instead of ads. Cheap junk,
               | fakes, and scams pushed up sales for a while, but then
               | people give up on the site and go to other sources that
               | are perceived to be more reputable.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | This is most of why I stopped using Amazon entirely.
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | > To keep the stock price up you have sustain a PE that
             | reflects revenue growth, and once you are done signing up
             | new users... Well... Something's got to give.
             | 
             | Facebook need to just settle back and offer dividends. It's
             | over.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | >Then again I don't run a social media company, so what do
             | I know. ;-)
             | 
             | Maybe not a little as you think. Just because the social
             | media companies are "runing", running into the ground is
             | still running. They just have so much momentum that the
             | ship is going to keep moving along.
        
             | r00fus wrote:
             | If our profit-uber-alles capitalist model has nothing to
             | restrain it... it raises the question - is the growth
             | benign or malignant?
        
               | csw-001 wrote:
               | If the logging analogy holds, then I don't think this is
               | purely an issue of profits above all - it's more an issue
               | of short-termism. If you are Facebook, you could
               | reasonably stay relevant, focus on content quality, and
               | shift to a profit model that looks a lot more like Morton
               | Salt's - steady as she goes. In the long run, sans other
               | goals, that might be the rational thing to do.
               | 
               | On the other hand, if you are looking to preserve stock
               | price in the short-term you need to at least create the
               | illusion of sustainable revenue growth. And there is a
               | lot to be said for this later strategy if you don't
               | really want to run Facebook in maintenance phase. Seems
               | that Mark and Co. might not be all that concerned about
               | "deforesting" Facebook with ads because the end game here
               | is the Metaverse...?...
        
           | in3d wrote:
           | Exactly. By adding more and more ads, their own widgets, and
           | pushing down smaller sites in the search results to favor
           | brands, Google made it very hard for smaller sites with user-
           | generated content to grow and profit organically. And then
           | fewer people searched for them or expected to find them.
           | 
           | I'm kind of enjoying the fact that newer sites and apps like
           | Discord don't let Google index them after Google killed off a
           | large part of the independent Internet. We're missing out on
           | a lot of good content that would be put up in an alternate
           | universe with a less greedy and shortsighted Google.
        
             | fullsend wrote:
             | Users click more on big brands. The average internet user
             | doesn't want to browse hobby websites, they use the top 10
             | sites and never leave them. Accept it. Some of them never
             | leave only Reddit or TikTok.
        
               | mrtesthah wrote:
               | Cynical proclamations tend to sound authoritative, but
               | that's not the same as being true. Sources?
        
               | spiralx wrote:
               | I was interested as well, but couldn't find anything
               | specifically answering the question. According to the
               | link below social media, email and watching videos counts
               | for about three-quarters of most people's internet usage,
               | which could easily mean they spend most time on just
               | three or four sites. The two smallest categories -
               | searching and shopping - could also just mean Google and
               | Amazon for the most part, so it's the "Surfing content
               | (19%)" that's ambiguous... although even then I assume
               | that Google is a big part of that, and otherwise surfing
               | for content is pretty much the opposite of visiting a
               | site regularly, although I guess it probably includes
               | news websites, which probably are a regular visit.
               | 
               | I'd guess that it is possible most people visit a dozen
               | or fewer websites regularly, of which half a dozen or so
               | are in the Top 10, and the rest include things like
               | news/media sites that are most likely to be popular (if
               | only nationally). Seems likely the older the person the
               | narrower range of things they do online, apparently the
               | most common activities for the over-60s are email and
               | checking the weather lol.
               | 
               | https://www.creditloan.com/blog/how-the-world-spends-its-
               | tim...
        
         | alexc05 wrote:
         | I'd also add that the optimizing the timeline for engagement
         | (including negative engagement & arguments) wound up making me
         | quit the platform entirely. There were no positive
         | interactions, just deeply unpleasant arguments with people
         | spewing vitriol.
         | 
         | Like ... why would I stay on a platform that was so deeply
         | unpleasant to interact with all the time?
        
         | pen2l wrote:
         | It's an interesting exercise to think about:
         | 
         | suppose you're in the meeting room and you're the product guy
         | and you'll make this case. Indeed let us not optimize for the
         | presently advantageous local maxima lest it come back to
         | swallow and end us. How is this communicated? And what does it
         | take to convincingly persuade people, or investors of this --
         | to even bear through a temporary downward period with the
         | understanding that fundamentals must be respected?
        
           | max51 wrote:
           | >And what does it take to convincingly persuade people, or
           | investors of this
           | 
           | As long as their top priority is next quarter's result, you
           | can't. You may get small wins here and there, but nothing
           | fundamental will change unless they have a long term vision.
           | When I say "long term", I'm talking 10 - 20 years, not 1
           | year.
        
           | whywhywhywhy wrote:
           | Convince on vision, not data.
           | 
           | They didn't build the iPhone or even like Google Maps and
           | Google Images by walking into the meeting room with data.
           | They instead said "what if maps were as easy as we've made
           | search"
           | 
           | Of course it becomes a problem when no one even to the CEO
           | level has lost vision. Never put the numbers guy in charge.
        
           | lemmiwinks wrote:
           | From my comprehension of Mad Men? You hire a PR firm to
           | convince those investors and decision people, to sell them an
           | idea instead of KPIs.
           | 
           | It can go both ways, of course: Mad Men is full of examples
           | of stupid business ideas that went spectacularly wrong. And
           | while it wasn't the focus of Mad Men, the real world is full
           | of examples of business that went the metrics way and were
           | successful.
           | 
           | But IMHO, if I was the CEO of a social media company, I sure
           | wouldn't focus on A/B testing and engagement metrics.
        
       | fmajid wrote:
       | Well, yes. Your friends are not paying for placement. If they
       | are, they are "influencers" and you need better friends.
        
       | ineptech wrote:
       | Crazy idea: FB should stop trying to lure people back from Tiktok
       | with weird features and just lean in to its one remaining
       | strength, which is that among social media sites, it's the most
       | generic and boring and ubiquitous. Being the default place for
       | non-influencers to do quotidian stuff like hearing about school
       | closings, joining the PTA or HOA, coordinating family gatherings,
       | see your nephew's school photos, etc would be a pretty good
       | little business. And they already have all of that functionality
       | built, so they could run significantly leaner, and hence not have
       | to drive their remaining users away with excessive ads.
       | 
       | This seems like a good idea to me. But I also think it's about as
       | likely to happen as President Stallman.
        
         | themagician wrote:
         | FB's core strength today is the boomer market. Definitely
         | something I did NOT see coming 10 years ago. The 60+ crowd
         | practically lives in Facebook Groups now and they will buy
         | basically anything that they see in an ad on FB. You can sell
         | people who are 60+ basically _anything_ on FB if you target
         | them. The pandemic really solidified this, and now the
         | conversion rates are higher than anything I have ever seen
         | anywhere.
         | 
         | It's interesting to me because many older FB users barely know
         | how to use the platform and they have invented their own tricks
         | and conventions--my favorite of which is commenting "Following"
         | because they don't know how to follow something, but know that
         | if they leave a comment they will get notifications about
         | responses. I see that every day and I always find it
         | interesting. Every now and then someone calls them out on it
         | and they just don't care. They have developed their own memes
         | and are probably the only group that uses those Bitmoji-esque
         | "What's on your mind" cards.
         | 
         | FB can lean into the boomer market and basically print money.
         | FB is going to replace QVC. Hell, they should just buy QVC.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | That would be the low risk strategy. Just run it as a cash cow
         | value business and extract as much profit as possible until it
         | dies.
         | 
         | However, Mark Zuckerberg has chosen to bet the company on AR/VR
         | and is investing $10B into that area. If they get it wrong then
         | he'll look like an idiot. If they get it right by building the
         | next major platform for humans to communicate then he'll look
         | like a visionary genius. We won't know which for at least 10
         | years.
        
           | yojo wrote:
           | People gave Google a ton of crap for buying YouTube for 1.6
           | billion (~16% of annual revenue at the time). That $10B FB
           | spent is more like 8.5% of their revenue.
           | 
           | I'm skeptical of the metaverse, but I was also pretty
           | skeptical of user-generated video. And given their current ad
           | take, $10B is not a crazy bet.
        
             | ok123456 wrote:
             | Everyone wanted to watch and share video clips on their
             | computer directly on the web without and without having to
             | care about codecs, file formats, and hosting.
             | 
             | No one wants to have business meetings wearing VR headsets
             | or give NFTs to virtual panhandlers or any of the other
             | silly usecases for a modernized version of Lawnmower Man.
        
               | nradov wrote:
               | At one point no one wanted to have business meetings on
               | Zoom, but the technology improved and the culture changed
               | such that it's now ubiquitous. Metaverse technology is
               | still really clunky today and used only by a few early
               | adopters, but it's entirely possible that the experience
               | will improve a lot in 10 years. Who knows?
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | > no one wanted to have business meetings on Zoom, but
               | the technology improved and the culture changed such that
               | it's now ubiquitous.
               | 
               | No one wants to use Zoom now. It's either required or the
               | lesser of two evils (the other evil being working in an
               | office).
        
               | VancouverMan wrote:
               | A significant factor to consider with that situation is
               | that the recent widespread use of teleconferencing
               | software wasn't organic.
               | 
               | Many people and organizations that started using it
               | frequently during the last three years only did so
               | because they were forced to, mainly due to absurd and
               | unjustifiable government-imposed lockdowns and other
               | restrictions. Otherwise, the remaining adoption was
               | mainly driven by paranoia, and only occasionally by
               | convenience.
               | 
               | We've seen a tendency for such people and organizations
               | to return to in-person interactions as soon as they can,
               | which usually starts the moment that government stops
               | interfering.
               | 
               | While the adoption may have been rapid and widespread, we
               | also see the reverse happening as soon as it's possible
               | to.
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | Yeah, no. Zoom had a product that worked good enough
               | (send out invite email and join a video conference) at
               | the right time (global pandemic).
               | 
               | Step one of the metaverse is everyone invests in a VR
               | headset. This is a complete non-starter. There is no
               | counter-factual where this becomes a success.
               | 
               | I still can't believe this is the "A Game" of a public
               | company worth $550bn. If this is the best they can come
               | up with, whatever of "Meta" that is left in 10 years
               | won't be worth 1/20 of that.
        
               | yojo wrote:
               | Maybe? I generally agree with you, but playing devils
               | advocate:
               | 
               | What does the generation raised on Minecraft and Roboblox
               | do when they grow up? They spent their adolescence in
               | virtual worlds. Do they grow out of that? Or does it
               | start to bleed into other parts of daily life?
               | 
               | VR still seems clunky as hell, but if the tech gets less
               | obtrusive I can imagine a world where a sizable chunk of
               | daily life is mediated through a headset.
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | Find a new form of escapism? A large driver of kids and
               | teens seeking out escapism like this is that compulsory
               | education is unsatisfying and they have very little self-
               | determination generally. This isn't new to Minecraft and
               | Robolox. A generation ago, it was watching way too much
               | TV. What are those kids who watched 6 hours a night of TV
               | doing now?
        
           | stonogo wrote:
           | Why do we need to wait ten years? He's building Second Life
           | with a higher-resolution mesh. Is that visionary?
        
         | thehappypm wrote:
         | Yes! Exactly this.
         | 
         | Facebook is your online second life. It's actually you.
         | 
         | With that, it doesn't make as much sense to be the place to
         | mindlessly scroll dance videos, or discuss politics with
         | strangers.
         | 
         | It does, however, make for a great place to discuss local
         | things, discuss hobbies, buy and sell things, message people,
         | keep up with friends and family
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | "Won't someone please think of the shareholders"... It seems
         | like the obvious idea, it is exactly their strengths and their
         | user base is old enough for those features to be of value.
         | 
         | The thing is that would mean making Facebook less valuable,
         | causing the current shareholders to lose money. It's going to
         | be hard to get someone to accept a business plan that will cost
         | them money, even if the alternative is worse long term. Perhaps
         | because you're betting that you can of load our shares before
         | the whole thing goes belly up (whenever that may be).
         | 
         | I think your idea makes a lot of sense, it would be cheaper to
         | run, there's less fancy features to develop, might be cheaper
         | to run andless use for moderation. The thing I don't understand
         | well enough is the ads: Can you charge more, because your users
         | are older and buy different things, or do teens and younger
         | people have more disposable income?
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | > The thing is that would mean making Facebook less valuable
           | 
           | Would it? Is the stock market completely irrational and
           | incapable of seeing the long-term value here? Or does the
           | market know something we don't?
        
         | bluebit wrote:
         | Instructions unclear, piled all available capital into the
         | "metaverse" instead.
        
         | greatpostman wrote:
         | Their current market cap can't be sustained by going back to
         | their roots. They need addictive attention
        
           | ratg13 wrote:
           | Yes, but it's still a dumb idea to make instagram into tiktok
           | rather than catering to their existing audience.
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | This seemed to be their strategy for several years in the early
         | 00s. Facebook was pretty enjoyable to use back then!
        
         | ok123456 wrote:
         | Marketplace is the only reason a lot of people still use the
         | site. This is since especially true for people looking for
         | beater cars since Craigslist started charging $5 to post ads
         | for cars.
         | 
         | If Apple or someone else with an ax to grind with Facebook
         | really wanted to bust Meta's kneecaps, they could off to
         | subsidize this charge. Maybe also help them out with fraud and
         | spam detection, since that's where most of the overhead on that
         | section is going to come from.
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | That seems to be getting the same Zuckerberg death-spiral:
           | Facebook has lots of users so it's tempting but everyone I
           | know who's tried it was deluged with blatant scam attempts &
           | Google MFA phishing attacks. Skimping on abuse just seems to
           | be the corporate default.
        
           | elcomet wrote:
           | That might be the reason for you, but there are many other
           | reasons why people still use the site. For example,
           | coordinating events with friends, discover local events,
           | discussing on messenger, sharing photos, discussing in
           | groups...
        
             | tenebrisalietum wrote:
             | I hear this all the time but SMS/MMS/iMessage/whatever
             | Android has does this just as well.
        
               | Infinitesimus wrote:
               | For cross-platform communication, Messenger/Whatsapp win
               | over the above. (Telegram, Signal, etc in some circles).
        
             | ok123456 wrote:
             | The people using Marketplace are the people who wouldn't be
             | using the site otherwise, and who are there for the express
             | purpose of doing commerce. No one over 40 would be caught
             | dead of facebook otherwise.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | > No one over 40 would be caught dead of facebook
               | otherwise.
               | 
               | What? The over 40 crowd is FB's main demographic.
        
               | max51 wrote:
               | >No one over 40 would be caught dead of facebook
               | otherwise.
               | 
               | Until their HOA or their sports club start using Facebook
               | as their official platform for announcements and
               | communication.
               | 
               | I know there are other free platform that could fill the
               | same role, but you will never find one where literally
               | more than half the adult population already has an
               | account and is familiar with the interface/features. Lots
               | of groups use it because it's the path of least
               | resistance.
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | Enough people don't have or won't use facebook in 2022.
               | 
               | Email is still the lowest common denominator.
        
               | thehappypm wrote:
               | Source? This sounds like conjecture at its finest.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | Taking an average of the various reports about Facbook
               | usage in the US, about 70% of internet users use Facebook
               | at least once per month.
               | 
               | Somewhere near 100% of internet users use email.
        
               | tenebrisalietum wrote:
               | Can you sign up with Facebook without an email? I know it
               | asks for your phone number but not sure if it still
               | requires an email.
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | It's not conjecture. Just look at any form your fill out,
               | from taxes, to medical, to employment. They all ask for
               | your email address and not for your facebook url.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | BbzzbB wrote:
               | It's funny how much projection people do when speaking of
               | FB, as if their personal experience offers some deep
               | insight into a platform of 3.5 billion users whose usage
               | varies by user, demography and geography.
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | It's funny how people try to deny the simple truth that
               | the site hasn't been fun to use in 15 years.
        
               | krferriter wrote:
               | Whether or not it's fun doesn't isn't the primary driving
               | factor in its continued popularity. People use it because
               | other people use it. It got big and now has a network
               | effect of inertia holding it in place until something
               | else takes off and replaces it.
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | Then, why does my original post have +30? It must have
               | struck a nerve with more than just myself.
        
               | elcomet wrote:
               | Because there's a certain group of people who feel the
               | same way as you do. And maybe people who read HN are more
               | likely to belong in this group. But HN is not
               | representative of the world.
        
               | drusepth wrote:
               | I'm not sure an opinion (how fun a site is to use) that
               | surely varies wildly across FB's billions of users can
               | even be a universal "simple truth".
        
               | drumttocs8 wrote:
               | Huh? In my experience, no one _under_ 40 uses the site
               | much anymore for its original purposes. The only status
               | updates and memes being posted are from the older crowd.
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | I meant under.
        
               | donkey-hotei wrote:
               | Might be true for you. But this is so not true for a lot
               | of the world still. Lots and lots of young people (late
               | 20s, early 30s) still use FB. Anecdotally, quite a few of
               | my friends still do, if not mostly for the groups.
        
           | legitster wrote:
           | FB is also actively making Marketplace worse.
           | 
           | They keep relegating their local pickup products and trying
           | to turn it into a generic online marketplace.
        
             | drstewart wrote:
             | It's annoying, but welcome. As soon as Marketplace dies, I
             | can delete FB forever
        
           | achenatx wrote:
           | I use it for groups. Many of our local clubs do great on
           | facebook
        
             | addicted wrote:
             | The problem is that FB has changed groups as well. Groups
             | seem to be redesigned to become more like open billboards
             | than private enclaves with a limited membership.
             | 
             | They haven't gone all the way there, so the groups are
             | still useful, but I'm worried that's the direction they're
             | taking.
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | Private groups mean less people and less engagement. So
               | they'll try to trick you into opening.
        
         | Sharlin wrote:
         | FB is also the only popular platform where you can do actual
         | "miniblogging" as in record and share your actual thoughts and
         | experiences in a few-paragraphs textual format. But that's
         | pretty much the opposite of trendy right now.
        
       | wikitopian wrote:
       | This period is best understood as a brutal hangover from several
       | years of market subsidized growth. We had cheap Ubers, cheap meal
       | delivery, and free web services all paid for by a speculative
       | bubble which is in the process of popping.
       | 
       | Meta can't just admit that they don't have a viable business
       | model or their stocks will truly crash, so they have no choice
       | but to cannibalize their remaining customers, like how phone and
       | cable companies screw the remaining people with landline phone
       | service and traditional cable packages.
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | They made 6.5 billion in pure profit last quarter. The business
         | model is sound the question is just if they are managing it
         | poorly.
        
       | llaolleh wrote:
       | Facebook is adbook.
        
       | oofbey wrote:
       | Resolution: WON'T FIX. WORKING AS INTENDED.
        
       | YouWhy wrote:
       | Knowing the beast firsthand, there's no trace of doubt in my mind
       | that the convergence to a junk product outcome involved a
       | monotonous increase in ad revenue and likely, engagement metrics.
       | 
       | There's a tragic dimension that a system which connected so much
       | of humanity to itself so well would be rendered so toxic as a
       | product and as a community in just a few years.
        
         | pfortuny wrote:
         | Ordinary people put up with a lot of inconvenience just to stay
         | connected (in some way). This is why fb has not collapsed yet.
         | 
         | I left it years ago when I realized it was just annoying me.
        
           | yieldcrv wrote:
           | It hasn't collapsed because _everyone_ with a half-baked idea
           | feels they _need_ to purchase ads to syndicate across
           | Facebook or Instagram
           | 
           | and some of the fully baked ideas with a budget do it too
           | 
           | its the crux of most modern online marketing strategies, its
           | always an overhead cost, recurring
        
           | dvtrn wrote:
           | I made the conscious effort before leaving Facebook to trade
           | phone numbers, addresses and birthday dates from the people I
           | wanted to really wanted stay in touch with, and put them in
           | my phone. This was all within the last three years.
           | 
           | I've sent birthday gifts in the mail, and I've gotten gifts
           | in mail from these very people.
           | 
           | Sometimes, when I wonder where the convenience that gets
           | talked about in the context of Facebook and "staying in
           | touch" ends and a more delicate form of "you're probably not
           | as close to some of the people on your friends list as you
           | think" (which was absolutely the case for me) begins.
           | 
           | It took really minimal effort on my part to find other ways
           | of staying in touch, but I think maybe the key is you have to
           | WANT to stay in touch with people?
           | 
           | Just a shower thought.
        
             | avgDev wrote:
             | I'm doing this too and it has been great for me in general.
             | 
             | I looked at my fb friends and thought to myself which
             | people I really liked and would like to reconnect with. I
             | messaged "facebook friends" I have not talked to in a while
             | and told them it may seem weird but I really would like to
             | reconnect. I have never done anything like this, as I am
             | extremely prone to losing touch with people.
             | 
             | I ended up reconnecting with a few people in real life and
             | it has been great. I also plan on sending cards and stuff.
        
             | robert204 wrote:
             | Same. I've been pretty happy with Clay
             | (https://clay.earth). They just rolled out a Facebook
             | birthdays integration and between that and Linkedin /
             | iMessage it has most of the people I care about seeing.
        
             | pfortuny wrote:
             | I do send _postcards_ and people like it so much they ask
             | me not to stop.
        
               | badwolf wrote:
               | Big fan of this. I also print and mail memes and
               | photoshops I make to people. It's nice getting something
               | in the mail that's not a bill.
        
             | ticviking wrote:
             | The art of deliberately staying in touch has been lost, and
             | taking the time and effort to do so makes one stand out.
        
           | webmobdev wrote:
           | Users of FB have migrated to Instagram and WhatsApp (all
           | owned by Meta) ... FB is now for old people / those who don't
           | like new tech.
        
             | cbozeman wrote:
             | Instagram and Facebook don't have the functionality that
             | Facebook has, that's the problem.
             | 
             | Instagram is for photo sharing. Hell, it's not even for
             | that... it's a dating app for women, that doesn't advertise
             | itself as a dating app for women.
             | 
             | WhatsApp is just another telephone and messaging app,
             | there's not much special about it as far as I can tell.
             | It's ICQ on a smartphone and I guess, maybe, a better
             | interface.
             | 
             | I was more connected back in the email / ICQ / Skype /
             | forums age than I am in the so-called "social" media age.
        
               | WHYLEE1991 wrote:
               | in what respect is Instagram a dating app for women or
               | anyone? Because it's a social media site primarily used
               | by younger-ish people? by that metric any site that
               | features young people is just an over-glorified dating
               | platform. (not to say that this is a negative
               | implication, dating websites are great to some extent)
               | 
               | Do you believe that young people are capable of using
               | social media platforms for things other than base urges
               | or is that something only middle aged people are able to
               | accomplish?
        
               | cbozeman wrote:
               | This wasn't meant for you, but the other guy deleted his
               | question, so here we go.
               | 
               | Instagram is a photo-sharing application at it's core.
               | 
               | So when you share photos, you're sharing your lifestyle.
               | You're advertising. This is especially prevalent down
               | here in Miami. So much so that people oftentimes at clubs
               | don't exchange phone numbers; they exchange Instagrams.
               | The women can see by your Instagram posts what kind of
               | life you live and whether or not they're interested. You
               | can see by their Instagram who and what they are. If you
               | go to it and you're inundated with a ton of booty pics in
               | string bikinis and a little string barely covering her
               | titties, hanging on for dear life, you know she's
               | advertising, "I am a hoe and I do hoe things." If you go
               | to her Instagram and you see a lot of landscape photos,
               | ancient monuments, etc., you know she's advertising, "I
               | like to travel and have a genuine interest in culture."
               | 
               | If you go to a man's Instagram and he's got photos of
               | himself stepping off a private jet, photos of him on a
               | sailboat or a yacht smoking a cigar with a label that
               | clearly reads Arturo Fuente Opus X and holding a glass of
               | amber liquid with a bottle that says Louis XIII on it,
               | photos of himself in a sharp suit leaned up against his
               | Aston Martin DB11, he's advertising, "I am a successful,
               | wealthy man who lives a life of luxury." If you go a
               | man's Instagram and there's pictures of his woodshop,
               | some photos of a new chest of drawers he crafted, a
               | picture of him sitting by the lake with his trusty
               | Labrador retriever lovingly sitting by his side, he's
               | advertising, "I'm a down-to-Earth craftsman who enjoys
               | the serenity of nature."
               | 
               | And then all these people go sliding into one another's
               | DMs, as the cool kids say...
               | 
               | If you don't believe that, start listening to the podcast
               | _Blocked and Reported_ with Katie Herzog and Jesse
               | Singal. I 've been listening since episode 29. They're on
               | episode 131. They report on Internet ridiculousness and
               | culture-at-large. A shocking amount of stories eventually
               | have the phrase "slid into the DMs" in them.
               | 
               | It's clear to me that Instagram is being used as a dating
               | platform as much as it is a storytelling or photo-sharing
               | platform. And I don't think Meta should do anything about
               | that at all. It's a dating platform on the down-low. I
               | think that might be a good thing.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | I can see your argument, and it's certainly an
               | interesting way of looking at it, but this just explains
               | the "dating app" part of your assertion (" _... it 's a
               | dating app for women,_"). It's missing the explanation on
               | why it's a "dating app _for women_ ".
        
               | cbozeman wrote:
               | Because even now in our so-called "sexually liberated"
               | world, men make the overwhelming amount of approaches
               | that indicate sexual interest. Put simply, "Men make the
               | first move."
               | 
               | In a way, Instagram is the digital / technological
               | pinnacle of the "Personals" ads from newspapers of
               | yesteryear.
               | 
               | I wonder if Rupert Holmes will update "Escape" with the
               | line, "There was this post that I saw... on my Instagram
               | feed..."
        
               | brandall10 wrote:
               | In addition to that, it's pretty common on other dating
               | platforms to say something along the lines of "don't use
               | this much, it's better to reach me on instagram".
               | 
               | Part of that is looking for new followers, part of that
               | is using IG as the primary social portal for their lives.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | anotheracctfo wrote:
               | Can you please stop sending cringey DM's to every woman
               | you see on Insta? I can assure you that the woman posting
               | her yarn project is not into you.
        
               | cbozeman wrote:
               | Sir, this is a Hacker News.
        
         | indigochill wrote:
         | > There's a tragic dimension that a system which connected so
         | much of humanity to itself
         | 
         | How would you say Facebook connected humanity differently from
         | what MySpace was doing before Facebook ate their lunch with a
         | more consistent UI?
         | 
         | I also am increasingly of the opinion that humanity is not
         | wired to connect globally. Our local social networks give us a
         | buffer against centralized bad actors. When everyone was
         | connected directly to everyone else, what we used to call
         | "chain letters" before social media took off won the
         | information war because they could bypass fact checkers that
         | would refuse to pass them to their network back when social
         | networks were more separated.
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | I recall a 4chan post where the author pointed out how before
           | the internet, if you were a person that wanted to have sex
           | with toasters you'd never bring it up and live a better life
           | for it, whereas now you go to Google and find a community
           | with 1000+ members of people who have sex with toasters and
           | inevitably ruin your life.
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | > I also am increasingly of the opinion that humanity is not
           | wired to connect globally
           | 
           | I view it as similar to the health hazards of widespread
           | cheap calories - it's not a new problem but we've cranked it
           | up to 11 and put a large fraction people on the planet at
           | risk, and approaches which tell people to exercise willpower
           | are basically pointless.
           | 
           | I think the fixes have to be regulatory but seriously
           | question the political will. Facebook was able to avoid any
           | real consequences for their role supporting the Rohingya
           | genocide and if that's not enough, what will be?
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | > I also am increasingly of the opinion that humanity is not
           | wired to connect globally.
           | 
           | Sociologists generally agree.
        
           | darkhorse222 wrote:
           | >How would you say Facebook connected humanity differently
           | from what MySpace was doing before Facebook ate their lunch
           | with a more consistent UI?
           | 
           | It's simple, more people were on FB than were ever on
           | Myspace.
        
           | wing-_-nuts wrote:
           | >before social media took off won the information war because
           | they could bypass fact checkers that would refuse to pass
           | them to their network
           | 
           | Lmao, my mother used to forward me these political chain
           | letters. I'd reply all with sources debunking them. I quickly
           | got removed from the list :^)
        
             | didgetmaster wrote:
             | You probably got removed from the list because it cost
             | someone a stamp to mail you the letter. These days if you
             | respond to anything, that just puts you on the 'real
             | person' list that gets distributed to all the spammers.
             | Email and robocalls are essentially free so there is no
             | incentive to take dead ends off the lists anymore.
        
               | wing-_-nuts wrote:
               | Oh no, I thought we were talking about chain emails. I
               | used to reply all
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | Instagram isn't nearly as bad, but still seems to have an
       | ad/suggested/sponsored post every 3 posts from people I follow.
       | YMMV.
        
       | snickerbockers wrote:
       | I am so glad I stopped using that site 7 years ago. What an
       | absolute dumpster fire it has become.
        
       | herpderperator wrote:
       | I've been seeing this with Twitter also... a lot of the stuff is
       | suggested content and really clickbaity sponsored posts. :(
        
       | koprulusector wrote:
       | Disclaimer: I haven't used Facebook in forever.
       | 
       | I just thought I'd point out this Reddit post is from nearly six
       | months ago. I'd imagine there have been numerous tweaks to what
       | users are shown since then.
        
       | vkou wrote:
       | Same for me. I checked in a few times this year, and it's utterly
       | unusable. If I want to argue about clickbait on the internet,
       | Facebook is the last place I want to do that.
       | 
       | But I'm sure some PM's really proud of the engagement metrics
       | they've generated.
        
       | throwaway888abc wrote:
       | Same crap with Instagam
        
       | phantom_of_cato wrote:
       | This is a good opportunity to reflect on how irrelevant and
       | vacuous is the omnipresent "It's a private company, they can do
       | whatever they want." We also have a right to criticize them for
       | whatever reason.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Facebook has a declining user count and a market cap which
       | assumes growth. (Although the stock is down 60% from peak.) So,
       | they've tried to increase revenue per user by adding more ads and
       | promotional content. User count declined further.
       | 
       | This is sometimes called "pulling a Myspace".
       | 
       | Facebook/Meta is now on metaverse failure #3 (Oculus, Facebook
       | Spaces, Horizon), has lost $10 billion in that space, and
       | investors are not happy. They're not getting out that way.
       | Facebook remains a viable business for now, but not a growth
       | business.
        
       | aleksandarbos wrote:
       | this is what my latest interaction with instagram looked like
       | before i deactivated the account:
       | 
       | 1. i'm consciously opening instagram to see what people/pages i'm
       | following have to offer
       | 
       | 2. i'm watching some random "suggested" reel of lion saving baby
       | giraffe from two crocks
       | 
       | 3. ads
       | 
       | 4. closing the app and asking myself of what am i doing out of my
       | life?
        
       | cphoover wrote:
       | and it's all crap. Very low quality content... especially on
       | video. Terrible recommendations. YouTube has the same problem.
       | Whoever is leading recs is doing a terrible job.
        
         | titzer wrote:
         | The recommendation system was really addictive for me for a
         | while. I was wasting a _ton_ of time on YouTube. Then I
         | switched off recommendations based on my watch history and it
         | suddenly got abysmally bad. And hallelujah, that worked like a
         | charm. I spend almost no time on YouTube at all now. Whoever
         | thinks that recommendations aren 't predatory time sinks
         | probably hasn't experienced both sides of that.
        
           | cphoover wrote:
           | They can be both addictive and bad.... I find myself clicking
           | clickbait nonsense all the time. With annoying titles like
           | "Funniest NFL celebration fails" or "Best cheeseburger in
           | NYC" It's inane worthless content, that my brain is addicted
           | to. I feel utterly unsatisfied after watching this terrible
           | content, yet I still click more often than I would like.
        
           | cphoover wrote:
           | how did you disable recommendations based off watch history?
        
       | pearjuice wrote:
       | Deleted Facebook years ago and turns out if you have actual
       | friends who you care about, you'll just send each other
       | life/status updates via direct messages (whatsapp, sadly also
       | owned by Meta).
        
       | JonathanBeuys wrote:
       | It wouldn't be that hard to write a bookmarklet that scrolls
       | through your feed, removes posts from people you don't follow and
       | sorts the rest by time.
       | 
       | A good portion of people here on HN would be capable of writing
       | it.
       | 
       | That nobody does shows that there is not really a strong
       | preference for this type of experience over the current
       | suggested/ads/friends mix.
        
         | pr0zac wrote:
         | Unsure why you think no one has done it. Theres been a browser
         | plugin/greasemonkey script for this type of functionality for
         | over a decade.
         | 
         | https://www.fbpurity.com/
        
         | JZerf wrote:
         | There are quite a few addons for Firefox for improving
         | Facebook, here are three that I found right away and there are
         | plenty more:
         | 
         | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/socialfixer/
         | 
         | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/disable-faceb...
         | 
         | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/fbcleaner/
         | 
         | Facebook does make changes from time to time which makes it a
         | bit of a cat and mouse game to keep these things working and
         | that can easily get tiresome for people. Also some people might
         | find the initial time investment to create these things to be
         | too much.
         | 
         | There is another post in this thread where someone mentioned
         | that for many people (but apparently not all???) including
         | myself, browsing to https://www.facebook.com/?sk=h_chr tends to
         | show your friends' posts in chronological order like many of us
         | prefer. There are also several people who mention that using ad
         | blockers like uBlock Origin do seem to be fairly effective at
         | blocking most ads and other unwanted suggestions in Facebook
         | and it does seem to work for me.
        
       | hankdoupe wrote:
       | The stickiest feature for me is Facebook groups. I go to Facebook
       | to see what the people who share my interests are up to, where
       | the next group bike ride is, etc. The recommended content (read:
       | auto-playing reels) just distracts from that and literally any
       | other content / media I'd rather be consuming. I'm really bummed
       | that the platform is trending towards being a Tik-tok clone.
       | 
       | I remember at some point there were a bunch of Facebook ads about
       | how it was a great platform for groups. What happened to that
       | focus?
       | 
       | e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88mIXSdF7nw
        
         | mtgx wrote:
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | > where the next group bike ride is, etc
         | 
         | Didn't things like that become a problem once they switched the
         | feed to not be chronological? LinkedIn has this problem. Top
         | posts: Some meet up from two weeks ago that I am interested
         | in... but it was two weeks ago, so, MEH.
        
           | martin_a wrote:
           | Yeah, I was bored and spend too much time on LinkedIn. Now
           | all they can show me is events and promotions from three
           | weeks ago. Not sure I should interact with that content
           | anymore.
        
       | jrnichols wrote:
       | I noticed this as well and as a result I use Facebook a whole lot
       | less. one big problem that I've encountered is that it's
       | suggesting borderline NSFW content from the plague of OnlyFans
       | "creators" that have flooded onto literally every social media
       | platform out there.
       | 
       | I've tried the "suggest less" and liking literally everything
       | else I can but I continue to get a flood of borderline content.
       | You click "Like" on one reel by accident and IG thinks that's all
       | you want to see.
       | 
       | less Meta usage for me. No TikTok either.
        
       | VikingCoder wrote:
       | Should I be moving everyone in my circle over to Mastadon or
       | something?
        
       | SamvitJ wrote:
       | In my experience, what happened is that young people eventually
       | stopped posting personal updates (this was a multi-year process),
       | either because the novelty of it declined or because they entered
       | a life phase change (e.g. leaving college) that made social
       | updates less frequent or less shareable.
       | 
       | In my friend group, this happened around 2018, about a year after
       | we left college and entered the working world. I'd guess
       | something similar happened with many cohorts.
        
         | max51 wrote:
         | For most people I know, they stopped posting when the feed
         | started being filled with suggested crap. We didn't want to
         | post on a feed we hated and where our friends would likely miss
         | it anyway amongst all the garbage.
        
       | gausswho wrote:
       | I'm done with Facebook too but let's not post low effort reddit
       | posts here with made up numbers for a headline.
        
       | 60secs wrote:
       | And FB default notification settings are cancer.
        
       | b800h wrote:
       | I'm waiting for WhatsApp to start serving me ads...
        
         | ugjka wrote:
         | That will cause mass exodus to Signal or something
        
       | specialist wrote:
       | My extended family has been the major reason I've held onto my
       | facebook account. Nieces, nephews, cousins. Baby & puppy pics.
       | Weddings, funerals, milestones, well wishes.
       | 
       | Apple's Messages now largely serves that role.
       | 
       | Feature Req: Make Messages savvy about Contact groups.
        
       | jonnycomputer wrote:
       | Agree, FB is trashing the place. But will say that, currently,
       | putting feed in chronological order
       | (https://www.facebook.com/?sk=h_chr) reduces the number of
       | suggesteds considerably; usually there is some (non-obvious) way
       | to organize the feed in one of the menus too.
        
       | throwmamatrain wrote:
       | I noticed I saw way less information about shows in my area, the
       | only thing I used facebook for. I missed nearly two months of
       | shows at my local venues due to relying on facebook before I
       | realized something had changed. Maybe they increased how much you
       | had to pay to advertise or increase reach? No idea!
       | 
       | Looks like I'll be writing my own scraper, fun times are here.
        
       | ACV001 wrote:
       | How do you think ads work on FB?
        
       | freeslave wrote:
       | There might be some other people out there like me with school
       | age kids. I find that my kids schools and the various PAC
       | (parents advisory committee) groups all use Facebook to
       | communicate. So I have to be on there if want info and to be
       | connected with other parents. I hate Facebook but for this
       | purpose it is actually quite useful. Similarly, I am in a
       | neighbourhood group and there is a certain amount of
       | nimby/busybody type posts but it can also be great for knowing
       | what is going on in the neighbourhood. The main page feed is all
       | junk posts/ads but if I stick to these group pages it's useful.
        
       | heliodor wrote:
       | The current FB is great for productivity!
       | 
       | No need to mourn the former FB. It's gone.
       | 
       | I've given up on FB as a social network a long time ago. I
       | unfollowed all my friends and started following things that
       | interest me. Followed the astronomical society so I can be
       | informed when they have a public night. I get ads for everything
       | I need for renovating my house: roof sealing services, AC repair,
       | contractors, new windows, cabinets, countertops, tiles, custom
       | woodworkers, and more! The comments teach you a thing or two too.
       | 
       | The other great things on FB are events, the marketplace, and
       | groups. So much useful information out there if you tailor the
       | platform to your needs.
        
         | 1121redblackgo wrote:
         | That is really clever, a swimming with the stream kind of
         | strategy. Thanks for the tip.
        
         | gukov wrote:
         | >The current FB is great for productivity!
         | 
         | Good guy Zucc.
         | 
         | Is the platform salvageable at this point? Probably easier to
         | acquire a new social media platform than steer the old
         | behemoth.
        
           | heliodor wrote:
           | The point of FB is to make profit for shareholders. The
           | platform can evolve into something new and profitable.
           | There's no need to salvage the old. That's why the poor guy
           | is driving his VR vision so hard!
        
         | scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
         | I actually concur with this. I largely abandoned the platform,
         | but one thing that I actually got from it lately turned out to
         | be... a fantastic local mechanic.
         | 
         | I went to a fan group for my car in my country and asked for a
         | recommendation for someone in my city. Someone gave me a tip on
         | a guy within 20 minutes.
         | 
         | This of course is something I would have found in a searchable
         | public forum back in the day, but I think more people use the
         | platform in this way than we think.
        
       | intrasight wrote:
       | Just get rid of things you don't want. "FBP" gives you find
       | granular control over what information is displayed in the
       | Facebook interface.
        
       | ryanchoi wrote:
       | I've found the same thing but for Instagram, though I think it
       | might be similar on Facebook too. It's just that when I'm on
       | Facebook it's only to check out some things in a few hobby
       | related groups I'm in so I'm never on home feed.
        
       | TrackerFF wrote:
       | Youtube is also turning into garbage. First 10 or so results are
       | relevant vids, then it becomes a mishmash of _" people also
       | watched"_, _" for you"_, shorts, and similar suggested vids.
       | 
       | EDIT: As for FB. The other day I watched three Studio Ghibli
       | movies on Netflix. The last time I watched anything anime
       | related, was Akira some 30 years ago.
       | 
       | Now the feed is being bombarded with anime and manga meme
       | content. I click "hide all" from these random pages, but they
       | just keep popping up.
        
         | bobo_legos wrote:
         | Youtube is a traiwreck anymore. Thankfully when this came up
         | here a few weeks ago a users pointed out that the subscriptions
         | tab is there to just show you what you're subscribed to.
        
       | t0bia_s wrote:
       | There are many browser add-ons that completely removes feed from
       | FB. Since I use FB exclusively for adding links to my personal
       | portfolio, thise plugins are handy and keep me away from
       | distraction everytime I need to share anything.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | SamuelAdams wrote:
       | This Reddit post is 5 months old, is there a recent change that
       | prompted this post?
        
       | smallerfish wrote:
       | What products are poised to pick up if and when FB nosedives?
       | 
       | Craigslist is a clear fallback for marketplace (although there
       | was evidently a reason people started using markplace in favor of
       | craigslist).
       | 
       | Nextdoor/Reddit are just as much cesspools as FB groups...is
       | there room for an oldster friendly groups replacement that
       | somehow solves the cesspool problem? At least in my area these
       | fill the void of not having local news - but instead it's a local
       | bitchy gossip stream.
       | 
       | Social feed is the big one. Obviously insta for photos, if they
       | don't screw it up. Do whatsapp/telegram/signal fill the void
       | otherwise?
        
       | taylodl wrote:
       | The way I use FB these days is to logon at most once per week or
       | every other week. It gives your friends/groups some time to post.
       | Most people aren't posting on a regular basis and oftentimes the
       | ones who are you don't need to read 90% of their posts.
        
       | mullingitover wrote:
       | Facebook is a fantastic product, as long as you use it properly
       | and not remotely as Facebook wants you to.
       | 
       | - Most important step: _Unfollow every single person and page_
       | 
       | - Follow entertaining groups like 'This cat is c h o n k y'
       | 
       | - Keep facebook messenger
       | 
       | - Use FB events for party planning
       | 
       | That's it, and it's easy: you get all the social graph
       | functionality, all the event planning and chat stuff. The feed
       | (if you even visit it, personally I might spend five minutes a
       | week there) is fun and doesn't make you feel disappointed with
       | your elderly family members.
        
         | BeFlatXIII wrote:
         | I don't know if I discovered this plan independently or if some
         | like-minded person shared this strategy years ago and I copied
         | it from them, but it 100% works. I miss the page "Memes so deep
         | and dank they make you commit suicide". It was 100% the name
         | that got it banned: the content was pretty much all reposts
         | from /r/ComedyBuddhism (a.k.a. non-humor or, occasionally,
         | anti-humor).
        
         | Vrondi wrote:
         | Following friends is the sole reason to even have a Facebook
         | account. Installing Messenger is nothing but a sign of sheer
         | ignorance or apathy.
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | ...why?
         | 
         | The low effort meme reposts are the worst part of FB. When FB
         | used to show me the things I followed at least it made sense to
         | log in.
        
         | munchler wrote:
         | Why would you want to unfollow your own friends? To me, that's
         | always been the one useful feature of Facebook.
        
           | BeFlatXIII wrote:
           | So you don't see the opinions that make you hate them and end
           | the friendship over thoughts that would never be uttered if
           | it were just the two of you.
        
           | spoonjim wrote:
           | The problem is FB uses that to suggest content from their
           | friends. Then you get random stuff from randos
        
           | psygn89 wrote:
           | It's easy when you don't have any.
        
         | Karawebnetwork wrote:
         | I'm glad to find a like-minded person.
         | 
         | I unfollowed all my friends years ago. If I want to see them, I
         | peek into events we have in common, groups or I go to their
         | feed directly.
         | 
         | My feed is mostly content from pages I enjoy along groups and
         | communities that cover topics which interest me. I have a
         | handful of friends who post about technology or hobbies that
         | are not blocked from my feed.
         | 
         | I have an older account that has a lot of friends in common
         | with my main one but without the blocks. I find its feed to be
         | very painful to use. Photos of people's food, people's pets,
         | people sharing "inspirational" quotes on stock photos, a lot of
         | selfies and people's children. It takes forever to find
         | information about topics I actually enjoy reading about.
         | 
         | I would unfriend those people if it did not come with the
         | social problem of them coming back disappointed asking why I am
         | no longer friend with them. As if social network contacts were
         | actually friends and as if unfriending someone on a social
         | network meant you are no longer friend with them. I also enjoy
         | being able to check up on them every now and them, which I
         | could not do if I were not connected with them due the their
         | privacy settings.
        
         | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
         | The thing about "X is a fantastic tool as long as you use it in
         | a way the developers never intended", is that sooner or later,
         | some interaction you rely on will break because the devs either
         | don't care about or actively want to remove your use-case.
         | Which is a problem if you've invested a lot into it at that
         | point.
        
           | JZerf wrote:
           | This is one of the major reasons why I try to limit my use of
           | websites for anything important and prefer to use normal,
           | local applications that don't rely heavily on someone else's
           | servers. It's a lot harder for other people to stop you from
           | using the applications and also helps prevent things from
           | changing/breaking all the sudden.
        
       | paparush wrote:
       | so, garbage. Got it.
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | Quit social media! You don't miss what you don't see.
        
       | alphabetting wrote:
       | I never use FB but checked it just now and the mix seems fine.
       | Out of the first 10 panels on my page 7 were friends or pages I
       | follow. Remaining were 2 ads and one suggested post. I'm guessing
       | it's worse if you use FB frequently and have seen all of your
       | friends recent content already.
        
       | rr888 wrote:
       | Surely there is a replacement out there? Like FB from 10 years
       | ago. Any suggestions?
        
       | noneeeed wrote:
       | This is just an extreme form of my problem with both Facebook and
       | Linkedin, both of which have become utterly unusable over the
       | last year.
       | 
       | Linkedin is particularly aggressive with the "someone you know
       | liked a comment by someone you don't know on a post by someone
       | else you don't know, from three months ago about an even that has
       | alredy happened...". Utterly irrelevant crap that it is convinced
       | will get me to come back.
       | 
       | I actually like the basic idea of social media, I _want_ to know
       | what my friends and family have been up to, or the people I 'm
       | professionally connected with, it's a nice way to stay connected
       | to people you might not get to see regularly.
       | 
       | The SM companies have all managed to utterly ruin their own
       | products to the point where I don't/won't/can't use them.
       | 
       | I would love it if someone could make a site that helped me stay
       | in contact with my wider social circle without trashing it in the
       | deperate pursuit of ad dollars. Sadly I can't see something like
       | that happening and not then being ruined.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | Ironic that a redditor is complaining about memes. I thought all
       | the good people were driven away from Reddit years ago by the
       | meme cancer.
        
         | DennisP wrote:
         | A lot of reasonably small, well-moderated subreddits are still
         | pretty great.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | Memes aren't cancers, they are ideas.
        
           | anon_123g987 wrote:
           | The word "meme" was created by Dawkins to be similar to
           | "gene", because they spread similarly. Cancer is, in a
           | certain sense, a genetic disease, the result of the
           | malfunction of genes caused by mutation. So, to continue the
           | analogy, a badly mutated meme can be like cancer, and can
           | spread like one.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme#Etymology
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer#Genetics
        
           | chitowneats wrote:
           | Certain unhealthy ideas throughout history seem to
           | metastasize and cause great harm to their host societies
           | until they are eventually discarded or defeated.
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | What do you have in mind? I can think of few modern
             | examples that resulted in failed states and losers in wars,
             | but many other bad ideas persist (but identifying them as
             | such can be socially and politically sensitive) without
             | dying off.
             | 
             | Memes aren't cancer, but I agree that they can be
             | pathogenic.
        
           | desindol wrote:
           | ...and ideas can be cancer.
        
       | Tao3300 wrote:
       | I suspect part of it is that Real People are posting less. Since
       | the feed doesn't have a bottom anymore it makes up the difference
       | with sponsored and suggested junk rather than going empty.
        
         | laweijfmvo wrote:
         | So ~3B people are now willingly going to Facebook to be served
         | ads and (probably) bot farms that just repost/share junk
         | articles (some of which are or will be computer generated).
         | Can't wait for the metaverse /s
        
         | drc500free wrote:
         | Yup, it's in a death spiral. As each feed gets less real
         | content, that person disengaged and posts less. So their
         | friends' feeds get less real content.
        
           | michaelhoffman wrote:
           | I still log into Facebook pretty often, but most of my posts
           | are no longer actually shared with friends, so I hardly ever
           | make them anymore. What's the point of posting something
           | almost no one will see?
        
         | thomastjeffery wrote:
         | If the average person's feed has less engagement from their
         | friends, then they are probably less likely to post.
         | 
         | There's probably a threshold where this problem starts feeding
         | itself, and a threshold where it stops.
        
         | ipqk wrote:
         | I'm a relatively old person that still has lots of friends that
         | use FB (and not instagram or tiktok) and 100% of my feed
         | (except for ads) was stuff from my friends.
        
         | jmugan wrote:
         | I don't know. There's plenty of posts from my friends. I just
         | don't see them because I'm not willing to wade through all of
         | the junk ads and sponsored stuff.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | When they changed things to make it so businesses had to pay
         | for "sponsored posts" to get their followers to see them, you
         | could see the writing on the wall.
         | 
         | If normal people's posts get seen by their friends and
         | followers, what would a business be paying for? And so it
         | starts a loop that ends in nothing but AI generated content for
         | doomscrollers.
        
         | foobarbecue wrote:
         | Agree, but I think this is an effect rather than a cause. They
         | made the feed un-friendly and un-cool, and as a result, Real
         | People stopped posting.
        
         | swatcoder wrote:
         | I gave up visiting Facebook a long time ago, so can't speak to
         | whatever current algorithm, but even a few years ago, my feed
         | was already flooded with outside content while only presenting
         | a small fraction of my friends' content.
         | 
         | If I wanted to see most of the friend-content I had
         | "subscribed" to, I had to do a manual tour of their profiles.
         | 
         | I'm sure people do post even less now, but I'm skeptical that's
         | the root cause of what's being reported. The explicit bias
         | towards political/commercial/promoted/engagementbait content
         | over "subscribed" content has been there for years.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | This.
         | 
         | Most people have ~300 friends. Most of those friends _never_
         | post, and the 10% that do probably only post a couple of times
         | a year now.
         | 
         | That means whenever you log in, there is no content from your
         | friends to see.
        
           | antisthenes wrote:
           | That's an _extremely_ liberal use of the word friend.
           | 
           | A more accurate way to state it would be to say 'facebook
           | connections'. If you don't regularly communicate with them,
           | they aren't your friends.
        
             | cbozeman wrote:
             | > 'facebook connections'
             | 
             | This is called an acquaintance.
        
             | hk__2 wrote:
             | That's nitpicking. These people are called "friends" on FB,
             | not "connections".
        
               | antisthenes wrote:
               | It's not nitpicking. It's the correct use of a word with
               | its established definitions.
               | 
               | If you want to use the FB corporate meaning, go ahead,
               | but label it appropriately.
        
               | bluebit wrote:
               | Can we all agree to call them FB friends, not friends.
        
             | ipaddr wrote:
             | If they are only your friend because you talked to them
             | recently they probably aren't your friend either.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | If they won't help you move a couch, they're not a friend.
        
           | BeFlatXIII wrote:
           | And the 1% daily posters would actively drive you away from
           | Facebook if their spam of posts showed up in your newsfeed.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | wincy wrote:
           | I'm not so sure about that. My mom posts on Facebook and gets
           | a few likes with pictures of Jesus with text in them, and my
           | wife posts every day with political hot takes, literally just
           | text posts and gets hundreds of likes on virtually every post
           | she makes with tons of comments and engagement.
           | 
           | My high school peers post pictures of their kids all the
           | time. I like their pictures and they like mine. My
           | grandparents all like my posts too, except grandpa who told
           | me not to curse on Facebook so I blocked her. I'll curse on
           | Facebook if I want, damn it!
           | 
           | Edit: You know, I haven't even posted this but just to verify
           | I went to Facebook and... 90% was suggested pages and barely
           | any of my friends posts. I swear it wasn't like this
           | yesterday. Did someone push an algorithm change and screw
           | everything up in prod for Facebook?
        
             | CuriouslyC wrote:
             | I have also noticed a lot more suggested pages recently, I
             | think they pushed a junk algorithm change.
        
           | badwolf wrote:
           | You can see this by going to
           | https://www.facebook.com/?sk=h_chr
           | 
           | This temporarily forces chronological feed by most recently
           | posted. My feed of actual people turned into a ghost town.
        
           | pkamb wrote:
           | People post liberally to private Groups you're a member of,
           | and you don't need to be their friends. Group posts should be
           | the majority of your newsfeed.
        
         | jerlam wrote:
         | By comparison, Instagram - the other part of Facebook - still
         | puts a "no new posts" item in the feed, so there's a clear
         | indicator that you can put Instagram away and you won't miss
         | out on anything.
         | 
         | However, Facebook has been slowly chipping away at it, by
         | putting suggested posts afterwards (instead of accounts you
         | actually follow) so if you're not paying attention, you'll
         | still get ads / engagement. I expect the "no new posts"
         | indicator will be made smaller and smaller, and eventually
         | disappear.
        
           | ufmace wrote:
           | Funny, I see the opposite on Instagram - it's loaded with
           | "suggested posts" based on things you liked, other accounts
           | you follow, or apparently just things that you stopped
           | scrolling for a second or two on, which I guess it detects.
           | It even switches you to an endless list of suggested posts to
           | scroll through once you have seen all of the posts from
           | people you actually follow since the last time you opened the
           | app - you have to click to an alternate screen/feed if you
           | want to see an "old" post again.
        
         | Vrondi wrote:
         | Nah. People are posting, and then it doesn't show up in their
         | friends' feeds, sometimes not for days. You can see this easily
         | if you talk to people IRL. "I posted those photos two days ago,
         | didn't you see?" and then the photos show up in your feed a few
         | days later. Or never.
        
         | BitwiseFool wrote:
         | That's a really important consideration. I post virtually
         | nothing and neither do the majority of my old friends from
         | school. Maybe it is due to being older and generally less
         | interesting, but I suspect it is also because my friends who
         | are inclined to post prolifically have moved on to Instagram,
         | TikTok, or Twitter.
        
         | kevstev wrote:
         | I was actually going to post vacation photos a few months ago,
         | after my first real trip post Covid. But... it just felt really
         | awkard to do so all of a sudden. My feed is just stuffed with
         | shared content and other crap, it no longer felt like something
         | I would be welcome doing.
         | 
         | Its been making me wonder if its time to sell my shares, which
         | I have held since the IPO. It just feels like FB errr "Meta" is
         | really losing its way, and this Metaverse stuff just seems like
         | its going to be a furnace into which billions of dollars are
         | going to be thrown into. My gut says its time, but I just can't
         | quite pull the trigger yet.
        
           | phhlho wrote:
           | This was what led me to quit Facebook as well. I just got a
           | real sketchy feeling sharing photos of my family knowing that
           | other people would see them intermingled with all sorts of
           | awful content.
        
           | rconti wrote:
           | I don't understand your hesitation to share your photos (or
           | at least, not based on that criteria). "[wouldn't] be
           | welcome"? By whom? Facebook? Or your friends? Would that
           | imply they'd rather see ads and shared crap content than
           | original content?
           | 
           | IMO Facebook needs an "original content only" setting. I
           | block every single page that some idiot shares, but I'm not
           | sure how much it helps. I will literally never want to see
           | something shared from another page.
           | 
           | It seems like this would be a good thing for FB too. Keep
           | engagement up, keep inserting ads. Hell, they could insert
           | MORE ads if the content I saw from my friends had a greater
           | signal:noise ratio.
           | 
           | Anyway, I recently shared some vacation pictures and quite
           | enjoyed it. So much better than a bullshit "story" that lasts
           | 24h and nobody can engage with except via DM. Such a weird
           | impulse for an app. (okay, I get that they want you to use it
           | constantly so you have FOMO about missing content that
           | disappears after 24h, but I don't get why they don't want any
           | real user engagement on the content).
        
             | yakovsi wrote:
             | I totally get what he says. If your feed no longer feels
             | like it's your feed, more like some bazar on your phone,
             | than why post anything private?
        
           | Vrondi wrote:
           | This makes absolutely no sense, and is totally your own
           | mental trip. Your friends (at least some of them) want to see
           | stuff from their friends. Now, Facebook might not show your
           | photos in their feeds, but most people would rather have that
           | than more ads.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | I think it makes a great deal of sense. The concern (I
             | assume) is that his posts will be surrounded by all the
             | nonsense that FB is filling people's feeds with.
             | 
             | The context in which you share stuff is incredibly
             | important. If the platform will bookend your posts with
             | crap, it reduces the value of your own post.
        
       | benevol wrote:
       | Literally all my social contacts have left FB for quite a while
       | already, myself included. I'm surprised people still talk about
       | this.
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | Use this URL[1] to open it in a browser _with adblock_. It gives
       | your feed in reverse chronological order, with a 90%+ ratio of
       | friends posts. (Just verified)
       | 
       | [1] https://www.facebook.com/?sk=h_chr
       | 
       | [Update] If you click _anything_ it takes you away from that
       | feed... that 's why I have it in my Bookmarks toolbar. If I find
       | myself going "wait.. this feels different"... I look up and see
       | the URL is now the generic one, and I've fallen off the path.
       | 
       | Also: I have 141 friends... not sure if that's a high or low
       | number relative to others.. but there's always someone posting. I
       | just read until I've seen it before, twice. (Some people repost
       | other people's stuff)
        
         | jonny_eh wrote:
         | This didn't work for me at all.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | This has been broken for me for the better part of the last 5
         | years. It would show me posts from several days prior, when I
         | had just seen that there were posts from a few hours prior.
         | It's almost as if FB didn't care to fix the chronological feed,
         | since they wanted you to use The Algorithm instead...
        
         | notacoward wrote:
         | I've been using and recommending this for years. They've broken
         | it twice that I can recall, but both times only briefly. It's
         | the only thing that makes the site tolerable for me. I don't
         | know why other people are reporting that it doesn't work for
         | them. Usually the explanation for such differences would be
         | that they're on the other side of a gatekeeper setting
         | (gatekeeper being the system that FB uses for gradual rollouts)
         | but that doesn't seem likely in this case. Maybe some sort of
         | caching artifact, or something broken about their configs, or
         | HNers just lying because they have an axe to grind, but it
         | _does_ still work at least for some of us.
        
         | bbarn wrote:
         | Yeah... I had to scroll 9 posts down to find one from a single
         | friend. uBlock running.
         | 
         | That trick hasn't worked in a long time, in fact I've had that
         | same URL as my bookmark for years.
        
         | gjm11 wrote:
         | With h_chr + SocialFixer + uBlock Origin (but, note, FB have
         | been messing with their HTML in ways that currently break
         | SocialFixer's sponsored-post detection filters, so this is a
         | bit worse than usual) the top 50 items in my feed are:
         | 
         | 34 posts from friends, 9 of which are vapid feel-good glurge (I
         | have a couple of friends who post, or rather share, a lot of
         | this)
         | 
         | 1 birthday message from one friend to another
         | 
         | 5 posts in groups I belong to
         | 
         | 10 sponsored posts, of which 8 are completely 100%
         | uninteresting to me and two are only 90% uninteresting (e.g.,
         | one of them is an ad for a play I might conceivably be
         | interested in seeing, if I lived anywhere near the place it's
         | running).
         | 
         | The SNR is definitely worse than "90%+ friends" but also much
         | better than "98% suggested pages and barely any friends".
         | 
         | (I am using "friends" in the Facebook sense, but I am fairly
         | discriminating about this and all my Facebook "friends" are
         | people I have actually met in the physical world and would
         | enjoy spending some time with.)
        
       | vatotemking wrote:
       | Tip: Use android firefox with ublock and open m.facebook.com
        
       | matchagaucho wrote:
       | And the irony is Reddit social feed is "broke" when trying to
       | view details about how FB is broke :-/
        
         | dpedu wrote:
         | I'm seeing the "You broke reddit" screen as well but you can
         | still access the post if you use .compact or the
         | `new.reddit.com` domain.
         | 
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/facebook/comments/tvqddc/fb_feed_is...
        
           | qjx wrote:
           | i also keep getting the "you broke reddit" screen (even
           | though it's a 503 so actually reddit broke it, but blaming it
           | on the users?) on old.reddit.com but works on new.reddit.com
           | 
           | is this reddit's not-so-subtle way to stop people from using
           | old.reddit?
        
       | misiti3780 wrote:
       | FB is dinosaur, it's where yahoo was 15 years ago. Taking into
       | account how horrible the product is, and all the studies that
       | show how unhappy and polarized it makes you, it's surprising to
       | me people are not leaving in mass at this point.
        
         | ipaddr wrote:
         | Few are deleting there account but most are limiting their
         | presence. I never left myspace but never went back either.
        
       | commandlinefan wrote:
       | I got back on FB after having given up on it for years and now my
       | feed is nearly all leftist memes (not exaggerating - super left-
       | wing pro-marxist/pro-communist stuff), no matter how many times I
       | try to "hide post", they just keep coming. I'm starting to
       | remember why I left Facebook in the first place.
        
       | legitster wrote:
       | My FB feed absolutely sucks. All I get anymore are Disney memes
       | and low effort socialist propaganda - content I have no interest
       | in no matter how much I try to hide it.
       | 
       | I used to keep a fairly curated feed of news and groups and
       | businesses I followed, for some reason FB has decided to throw
       | out all of that out to feed me this garbage.
        
       | senko wrote:
       | Same here.
       | 
       | Not only that, but the random suggested pages are completely
       | irrelevant to me. Facebook knows where I live and at least a few
       | details of what I'm into, and the suggested pages have no
       | connection to any of those whatsoever.
        
         | InCityDreams wrote:
         | It's ok. Having used facebook, everybody knows where you live,
         | and what you're into.
        
       | timbit42 wrote:
       | FBPurity is a web browser plugin that will hide whatever you
       | don't want to see in your FB feed. If a sponsored post shows up
       | you can click the 3 dots menu to flag it.
       | 
       | I have it set to not show Likes or Comments my friends make on
       | other people's posts or shares. All I see is what my friends
       | post.
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | I did this on purpose. I muted almost every actual person from my
       | feed and all that remained were a handful of pages I chose to
       | follow. Mostly tv/media related pages and retro video game
       | groups, plus some local groups. Now, instead of looking at the
       | random crap people I barely know decide to post, including their
       | ample complaints about anything and everything, I mostly just see
       | relevant content I'm actually happy to see! This change got me
       | checking FB again regularly for the first time in years.
        
       | smrtinsert wrote:
       | My feed is practically spam.
        
       | kelsolaar wrote:
       | I just spent 20 mins hiding all the Ad, Sponsored and Sugges
       | content and now my feed is clean upon refresh. I do that from
       | time to time and it stays fine for a bit but that type of content
       | starts creeping up again. Lately it has been insane though, for
       | example this morning after seeing this post my feed was
       | everything but content I follow.
        
         | dwringer wrote:
         | I expect they algorithmically tailor this sort of thing so when
         | they detect a spike in "hide" activity they temporarily scale
         | it back so you think it had an effect, making you more likely
         | to methodically spend 20 minutes poring over all their Ad,
         | Sponsored, and Suggested content again in the future.
        
       | null-shell wrote:
       | Yeah I'm seeing this happen on Instagram also, which I used to
       | actually use but every 3rd post is an ad followed by a sponsored
       | post and some account I don't follow.
        
       | luckydata wrote:
       | Everyone knows FB is dying (including FB). Doesn't mean a dying
       | product can't make money. They'll squeeze it until it bleeds,
       | then do the same with Instagram while they figure out the next
       | big thing.
       | 
       | It's a very similar business as malls and amusement parks, you
       | can't just keep doing the same stuff cause people's taste change.
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | "Facebook is dying, TikTok will take over"
       | 
       | "Why is Facebook trying to be like TikTok?"
        
       | floatinglotus wrote:
       | Ugh, I detest that I have to use Facebook for anything at all.
        
       | SunghoYahng wrote:
       | What will happen to React or PyTorch if this trend continues?
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | I don't post often on Facebook these days, but I find my posts
       | either get zero likes or in the 30-40 like range with almost
       | nothing in between.
       | 
       | This leads me to believe that no one is being shown roughly half
       | my posts, though it's arguably possible half of what I post is
       | total garbage.
        
       | martin_a wrote:
       | Another anecdotal data point: I loved Facebook around 2010-2015.
       | 
       | I was in university, had lots of "friends" that I had met in
       | person, was a user of the groups, events, everything. It was
       | great to stay in touch with old and new people I knew.
       | 
       | As people finished university, they had less time for FB, posted
       | less and so FB probably decided to fill up the blanks they had
       | left with "XY liked this", ads, and "you could like this" posts.
       | 
       | As all our lives moved on, FB became worse and worse because we
       | didn't feed it with our own content anymore.
       | 
       | At some point I just deleted it and didn't really look back.
       | 
       | Now I see the same thing happening with Instagram, where I see
       | less and less content of old friends and more and more reels and
       | "engaging" content.
       | 
       | Maybe I'm getting old, but I'd just love to see how my former
       | classmates are doing with their children and families and jobs
       | etc.
        
         | foobarbecue wrote:
         | I have a similar experience, but when it comes to:
         | 
         | people posting less --> "XY liked this", ads, and "you could
         | like this" posts
         | 
         | I'm pretty sure the cause and effect is reversed. Facebook
         | decided to prioritize BS over friend content on the feed, and
         | suddenly it became lame because nobody was interacting. A bit
         | chicken-and-egg / feedback cycle I suppose, but I really think
         | FB started it by adding "sponsored content" and even likes
         | (remember when you had to actually type out a response if you
         | wanted to reply?).
        
         | warner25 wrote:
         | This is an interesting explanation of things. So it's not just
         | that Facebook was better in 20XX-20YY, it's the stage of life a
         | person was in. I started college in the fall of 2004 (in Boston
         | back when "TheFacebook" was limited to college students there
         | and at a handful other prestigious schools across the country).
         | It was indeed great fun in those days. By 2010, just a couple
         | years out of college, I already thought that Facebook had
         | turned to garbage, so it's interesting to hear that you had a
         | good experience starting in 2010. Your theory makes sense.
         | 
         | Now that I'm a parent in my mid-30s, Facebook is just a utility
         | for getting information from local officials (who've all but
         | abandoned their legitimate public-facing websites) and buying /
         | selling through Marketplace. It has nothing to do with fun.
        
           | daveslash wrote:
           | I started using TheFacebook in 2005 ( _A Mark Zuckerberg
           | Production. Too Close for Missiles, Switching to Guns_ ).
           | 
           | It had expanded beyond the prestigious colleges, but each
           | college still had to be "on boarded" individually. I was on
           | the first day TheFacebook was available at my mountain-west
           | university, although all my friends were still on MySpace at
           | the time. As much as I can't stand Facebook (or Meta) these
           | days ( _the products, the company, the impact on society_ ),
           | I do look back on 2005-206 Facebook with great fondness. It
           | waned on me as we entered the 2010's... But back then, tt was
           | novel, new, fun, quirky but polished (unlike MySpace). It was
           | a _great_ way to easily share photos and tag people - and I
           | was at that stage in life where that sort of thing was also
           | really fun. It was a magical time.
        
       | Gud wrote:
       | What I'm wondering is why an alternative social network has not
       | gained more wide spread adoption, at least in the nerd
       | community(looking at you, HN reader).
       | 
       | It seems to me social media is ripe for disruption.
        
         | martin_a wrote:
         | > It seems to me social media is ripe for disruption.
         | 
         | I think what we see is that every social media site goes down
         | pretty much the same way at some point.
         | 
         | FB was great until they started that whole recommended post
         | stuff which fucked up the feed.
         | 
         | Instagram was great until they were bought by Facebook and had
         | to get some metrics straight, too.
         | 
         | TikTok will be the next one to go down as influencers and other
         | parasitic users tear it down, flood it with low quality content
         | etc.
         | 
         | There will be something after TikTok. And TikTok will copy
         | their features and FB will (try to) buy them and ruin them that
         | way, too. It all goes down eventually.
        
           | Gud wrote:
           | I agree! But what I've learnt from being on HN for a fairly
           | long time is that online communities can be built to last.
           | Maybe not forever, but for a long time. I think _community_
           | is the important part, as soon as the site builder tries to
           | cater to everyone it eventually just becomes another ad
           | platform.
        
             | martin_a wrote:
             | I think we might have had something like that community
             | when we were all hanging around in bulletin boards
             | something like... 15 to 20 years ago.
             | 
             | I remember that I had a very dark time and some moderator
             | (I was one, too) managed to find out my phone number (I
             | think he dailed every number with my family name in our
             | town till he found mine) and called me, after I had posted
             | in a moderator-only group that I would take some time off
             | and wasn't sure about returning because everything was
             | shit.
             | 
             | That really touched me, although we had and have never met.
             | It was human and very unexpected and I don't think you'd
             | find something like that in modern day communities, build
             | on Facebook.
             | 
             | Also: FB Groups probably killed bulletin boards because it
             | was just very easy. What a loss.
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | Facebook has lots of good corners of their products. Marketplace
       | is ok-ish. Events is OK. Even Messenger is an ok sub-app of
       | Facebook.
       | 
       | The one app that's unusably bad is the "feed" (or whatever it's
       | called these days). I use Facebook almost daily but can't
       | understand why anyone would use the feed bit. Even back when it
       | was friends' posts it was bad. Now that it's half commercial half
       | TikTok rabbit hole why does anyone even use it?
        
       | JacobSeated wrote:
       | What is worse, I have seen quite a few suggested pages spreading
       | hardcore conspiracy theories.
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | Facebook is a machine learning system in which there s only
         | positive reinforcement. Reality is the opposite, people learn
         | by their mistakes mostly. Biological netwokrs with continuous
         | positive reinforcement end up epileptic. So does facebook
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | It's what happens when you ban short-sellers (or downvotes.)
        
         | linguae wrote:
         | I've witnessed the same. In addition, I've recently seen
         | Facebook recommend posts that were outright racist and anti-
         | Semitic. I tried reporting them to Facebook, but they weren't
         | removed since they didn't call for violence.
         | 
         | One would think that a company that's been under heavy scrutiny
         | regarding its role in the growing political polarization of
         | America with its negative social effects would make a better
         | effort with its News Feed. It's one thing to have a lenient
         | policy regarding what people can post, but it's another thing
         | when I'm being recommended posts that encourage hatred and wild
         | conspiracy theories that flirt with sedition.
        
           | vkou wrote:
           | > but it's another thing when I'm being recommended posts
           | that encourage hatred and wild conspiracy theories that flirt
           | with sedition.
           | 
           | What you're describing is literally one of the two mainstream
           | political viewpoints of 2022. Imagine the backlash if those
           | viewpoints get banned on Facebook.
           | 
           | (This is, by the way, not a good thing.)
        
       | briandoesdev wrote:
       | I wish FB had a way for me to disable posts from companies,
       | pages, "shared" content etc.. I only want to see photos and
       | status updates from friends. That is all. I don't want memes or
       | reels. It's sad that in the first 10 items on my FB Home, only 1
       | is from a friend and its just a shared meme.
        
       | binarynate wrote:
       | I absolutely hate the unwanted recommendations and Reels, but I
       | currently still find FB useful for staying in contact with
       | extended family and friends, so I use this "Facebook Hide
       | Recommendations and Reels" browser extension to keep FB useable:
       | 
       | https://github.com/mrinc/Facebook-Hide-Recommendations-and-R...
       | 
       | Even with recommendations and Reels disabled, other aspects of FB
       | have also degraded significantly:
       | 
       | - Friends don't share original content there as much as they used
       | to, a sign that FB's relevance is dwindling. I suspect people
       | have also grown wary of Facebook's privacy practices like I have.
       | 
       | - FB's features lack taste. For example, its knock-off of Bitmoji
       | looks terrible.
       | 
       | - Increasing prevalence of scammers. I tried to sell some things
       | on FB Marketplace last week and was contacted by a dozen fake
       | profiles trying to scam me with fake emails from Zelle. I also
       | frequently get friend requests from profiles where scammers
       | created a duplicate of a friend's profile, copying their exact
       | name and pictures.
       | 
       | Taken together, my feeling is that facebook.com is (and has been)
       | on a downward spiral toward irrelevance.
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | Wow! This extension is great! Thanks.
         | 
         | > I suspect people have also grown wary of Facebook's privacy
         | practices like I have
         | 
         | I do not think this really tracks for the average user. Most
         | people use social media because they a) want to be seen or b)
         | want content tailored to their interest.
         | 
         | Ironically, FB now offers neither. So even my wife, who will
         | gladly give out her info for any sweepstakes she can doesn't
         | really find anything particularly interesting anymore.
        
           | binarynate wrote:
           | You're welcome! And I think you're right, the privacy issues
           | probably aren't a concern for the average user.
        
       | tmaly wrote:
       | I only use FB for the market place. I have not really noticed the
       | feed.
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | Yeah, but the original FB did not even have a "feed". Hence these
       | complaints are about an uncontrollable "feature" (a so-called
       | "feed") that no one asked for.
       | 
       | The idea that someone starts using some software or website
       | because it looks useful (original FB had no advertising) and then
       | later the software or website unilaterally decides to morph into
       | something else (FB did this very early on with the addition of a
       | "feed") reminds me of the phrase "bait and switch".
        
       | justahuman74 wrote:
       | If I posted something no one I know these days would see it as
       | it's become non-trendy to add people on facebook, it's just
       | people from 10 years ago
        
       | foobarbecue wrote:
       | I really miss having a way to talk to my friends online.
       | 
       | It was possible in the early 2000s with multi-network instant
       | messaging clients, and then in the late 2000s to a few years ago
       | with Facebook.
       | 
       | And then Facebook destroyed itself (as described in this thread)
       | and now I honestly can't find a frictionless way to get in touch
       | with people.
       | 
       | My most common use case was posting "hey I'm going climbing /
       | surfing / caving, anyone want to join"? or "I'm in town X, anyone
       | want to hang out" or "BBQ at mine." Facebook is useless for that
       | now and there isn't a replacement. Hopefully, something with
       | critical mass will rise from the ashes.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | But there are a ton of replacements for the use case you
         | describe. Telegram and the like (even WhatsApp), or just plain
         | old email are useful for what you're describing.
        
       | oh_my_goodness wrote:
       | Spam Sushi's First Law: all Internet forums eventually reach a
       | point where they focus primarily on driving users away.
        
       | Eleison23 wrote:
       | I first created a FB account in 2008. I amassed a huge number of
       | so-called "friends", I posted a lot, I was active, and it was
       | detrimental to my mental health, so I destroyed that account.
       | 
       | I crept back on last year or so with a blank slate. My "friends"
       | list now consists of an eclectic mix of 100% people I will never
       | meet in person. It's small and selective, so my actual feed is
       | likewise small and runs out quickly. As a consequence, it's not
       | possible for me to waste much time there. I like it that way.
       | 
       | I post very little and don't get too personal or dramatic. I had
       | a good series of photos and blurbs about my home cooking projects
       | for awhile, but it's always been sporadic output from here.
        
       | yardstick wrote:
       | From the Reddit thread: In the app, click on the Feeds icon (top
       | for Android, bottom for iOS) then select Friends. I'm now seeing
       | a lot more relevant stuff.
        
       | kojvec wrote:
       | Hi
        
       | tpmx wrote:
       | My feeling/understanding: Because of the culture wars and privacy
       | concerns, many regular people who used to be quite active on FB
       | stopped posting things altogether on Facebook. The risk
       | outweighed the benefit. So most people were left with a handful
       | of people in their network who would crank out generally quite
       | uninteresting posts.
       | 
       | This combined with FB's agenda to monetize the service... here we
       | are.
       | 
       | I now only use FB to check in to a few very local groups
       | (population of 7k) once in a while. The signal-to-noise ratio is
       | really bad, even there.
        
       | kderbyma wrote:
       | I deleted my 15 year old account because of that.....it was
       | tough, but it was so far gone from what it was that it wasn't
       | really a loss to say goodbye.....
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | I don't see quite this many ads/suggested pages, but I often see
       | two ads in a row on mobile. Every time it happens I close the
       | tab.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | Long ago when I felt like I couldn't just find all my friends
       | posts I gave up on Facebook and logged off forever.
       | 
       | That was the value to me and Facebook seemed to not want me to
       | see it...
        
       | avgDev wrote:
       | FB is complete trash and a joke.
       | 
       | I have issues seeing older FB comments. The UI doesn't work
       | properly on my safari browser. Fb freezes, images fail to load.
       | It is an extremely frustrating experience on safari on my phone.
       | 
       | The platform is dying and it cannot come soon enough.
        
       | didgetmaster wrote:
       | It's called signal-to-noise ratio and it affects everything these
       | days. We stopped reading newspapers and magazines when it became
       | harder to find articles in-between all the ads. We stop watching
       | broadcast TV when a typical 30 minute show has 18 minutes of
       | commercials. We stop visiting websites when pop-up and flashing
       | ads overwhelm the site.
       | 
       | Social media sites are no different. The question is will they
       | wake up before all their users flee.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > We stopped reading newspapers
         | 
         | I didn't stop reading newspapers because of ads. I stopped
         | reading newspapers because a handful of large companies bought
         | them all and turned them into crap.
        
           | didgetmaster wrote:
           | Well, there was that too...
        
       | SunghoYahng wrote:
       | New social media appeared -> people flock -> monetization ->
       | people leave
       | 
       | The implication of this is that social media is expected to make
       | a lot of money from the number of users, but in the end it
       | doesn't?
        
       | ravenstine wrote:
       | I almost never log in to Facebook anymore, but the feed was
       | hilariously bad the last time I checked it out. Almost entirely
       | ads for random crap, eyecandy videos, exotic Asian street food
       | videos, etc. Nothing even remotely related to my interests.
       | 
       | At least Facebook seems to have figured out that I'm not a Star
       | Wars fan. For years, their algorithm somehow decided that I liked
       | Star Wars and that I wanted my feed to be full of lame ass Star
       | Wars memes. I haven't been even remotely interested in Star Wars
       | since I was a boy, and as an adult I hardly even watch Star Trek
       | or have an interest in any other sci-fi. Perhaps Disnay was
       | paying Facebook to just blast their product at random people.
       | 
       | I suspect the even greater amount of suggested content in the FB
       | feed is another symptom of the TikTokification of the internet.
       | Facebook was already kind of doing this, but the feed becoming
       | almost entirely suggested content definitely seems like a
       | response to the fact that the 68th percentile of the public seems
       | to have no problem scrolling through random eye-catching
       | bullshit.
        
         | mmmpop wrote:
         | What do you mean you don't like Star Wars, everyone likes Star
         | Wars, May the Forth and lol anjklsdnajkdsnfkasfasd
         | 
         | Star Wars!!!! i'm so unique
        
           | Bakary wrote:
           | I actually really enjoyed the second movie of the new trilogy
           | because it seemed to be a shockingly self-aware
           | deconstruction of some of the Star Wars tropes and its place
           | in culture in general. How it ever got greenlit by Disney of
           | all entities is an enduring mystery.
        
             | cbozeman wrote:
             | > I actually really enjoyed the second movie of the new
             | trilogy because it seemed to be a shockingly self-aware
             | deconstruction of some of the Star Wars tropes and its
             | place in culture in general.
             | 
             | Congratulations, you also figured out why it was so
             | polarizing and why more than half the audience hated it...
             | assuming you believe Rotten Tomatoes. It's _Star Wars_.
             | People don 't want a goddamned political deconstruction of
             | all the _objectively bullshit and overblown worries_ of the
             | current culture. They want an escapist fantasy about
             | another galaxy thousands of years ago.
             | 
             | > How it ever got greenlit by Disney of all entities is an
             | enduring mystery.
             | 
             | Is it? Really? You legitimately can't figure out how that
             | meeting went?
             | 
             | "Ohmigod, feeemale protagonist... _so_ hot right now... "
             | 
             | "I know, right?? And she's a BOSS BITCH so she can use all
             | the Force powers better than experienced Jedi from _day
             | one_ , hashtag grrlpwr!"
             | 
             | "Angsty Luke... fab idea, fam!"
             | 
             | There's not enough evidence _on Planet Earth_ to make me
             | believe they sat around in meetings thoroughly discussing
             | what would be a logical story arc for the original cast,
             | whilst simultaneously passing the baton over to a new
             | generation to start exploring their own stories.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | The second one's the only one of the new trilogy worth
             | saving from a fire. Though I also can't really recommend it
             | to anyone because it doesn't stand very well on its own,
             | and I sure wouldn't want to recommend either of the others
             | to most people (IX has some "so bad it's good" qualities
             | that make it fun for a certain kind of viewer, but I
             | wouldn't say it's any kind of _major hit_ even in that
             | respect)
             | 
             | Man. That trilogy. Good actors, excellent in some cases,
             | and they sure did _try_. But it wasn 't enough.
        
         | dleslie wrote:
         | For years Facebook fed me interesting local pages and national
         | news from (usually) reputable sources. About six months ago
         | Facebook decided that what I really need to see is an endless
         | stream of lingerie and female-focused sex toys; I've never
         | clicked on these things, or lingered long over them, as far as
         | I am aware.
         | 
         | Coincidentally, it was around six months ago that I disabled
         | the browser from my phone; so perhaps they no longer have
         | location information to lean on?
         | 
         | And, of course, I haven't seen a post from a friend or family
         | member in recent memory.
        
           | BitwiseFool wrote:
           | Some product manager misunderstood the concept of 'generating
           | buzz'. /s
        
         | coffeefirst wrote:
         | It happened right as they started deprioritizing news, which
         | included every legitimate media outlet that adults tend to read
         | --including non-political publications.
         | 
         | Also my friends basically all stopped posting anything in 2020.
         | 
         | So what's left is nothing but dumb memes. Half are about dogs
         | (okay, I do like dogs, but these are just stupid). The other
         | half are Lord of the Rings, which I have _never_ expressed
         | interest in, but must be in a lookalike audience for people who
         | do.
        
       | zelman_gina wrote:
       | It is simple. Most of the feed is going to stories. I have so
       | many stories that I can't finish.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | It can't show you content that doesn't exist.
       | 
       | My FB feed is pretty much a ghost town aside from a few people
       | that somehow didn't get the memo
        
       | stjohnswarts wrote:
       | Not if you unfollow everything other than your friends :) and use
       | "most recent". Still got ads though.
        
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