[HN Gopher] X-Plane 12 Early Access
___________________________________________________________________
X-Plane 12 Early Access
Author : nicebill8
Score : 101 points
Date : 2022-09-13 15:39 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.x-plane.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.x-plane.com)
| svnpenn wrote:
| Do yourself a favor, and checkout the X Pilot channel on YouTube:
|
| https://youtube.com/channel/UCLPA0Dhi1VXQDGbkXwjDUzQ
| mindcrash wrote:
| Why this isn't released in EA on Steam - where most of the
| community is located due to 10 and 11 being there and which has
| even recently grown a bit due to a quite hefty discount on 11 -
| is a bit weird imo...
| unknownaccount wrote:
| Random question but do you people who play flight simulators but
| never flown a real plane think that if you were on a commercial
| passenger jet and the pilots became incapacitated that you would
| be able to take over the controls and land the plane safely?
| thomasin500 wrote:
| Having played lots and lots of flight simulators using Yolks,
| Pedals, and physical buttons, etc, I think with guidance from
| ATC, I would be _more_ likely to land a plane safely compared
| to the general public. How much more is up to debate...
| seper8 wrote:
| Depends on the plane, weather conditions, air traffic control
| and the runway. Does the runway support ILS, will ATC help
| guide you, clear skies & daytime? Probably would work
| cameronh90 wrote:
| I have flown a Cessna in real life but never a jet. In sim, I
| usually fly Airbus, usually at night or in clouds, relying
| mainly on the instrumentation and charts.
|
| For your scenario, I think if it was an Airbus, the conditions
| weren't too extreme and there were no failures, I'd have a
| pretty good shot at a successful landing. If it was a Boeing, I
| wouldn't know where to start.
|
| I don't think flying is that hard at a basic level. Arguably
| it's easier than driving once you've got your head around the
| millions of buttons and switches. The challenge is what you do
| when things go wrong, and adequately planning for that
| situation.
| unsignedint wrote:
| We do come across the news some passengers landing the plane
| with guidance from ATC time to time, and maybe ones with prior
| "training" with flight simulators may know at least how planes
| operate in certain extent, perhaps even where right switches
| are located. This alone may reduce a lot of back and forth with
| ATC, as they could say "turn the heading knob to 010 within
| autopilot cluster" as opposed to "you see there's a section of
| instrument called autopilot on the top center of the console --
| you should see the knob that says heading, turn it so it says
| 010." At least it would be less intimidating to ones that has
| seen them in simulations. (after all, that's what simulations
| are all about...)
|
| It's probably safe to say you'd get 50% edge just by knowing
| how plane controls works (roll, pitch, yaw) -- I don't think a
| lot of "general public" would have idea what they are, let
| alone how they are mapped to things in a cockpit.
| Buttons840 wrote:
| Maybe if I could get the radio working. After that I've
| probably played with the autopilot systems enough that I could
| follow instructions. Such a scenario would most likely happen
| in a smaller aircraft and I imagine they'd guide me to the
| largest runway around, and landing a small aircraft on a full
| size commercial runway probably feels like the runway goes for
| miles and miles.
| juice_bus wrote:
| How does X-Plane compare to the latest Microsoft Flight
| Simulator?
| jillesvangurp wrote:
| If you are primarily looking out the window, MS wins because
| they spend a lot of effort making sure to model the entire
| world in great detail. No shame in that, it's a great way to
| enjoy a flight sim and MS did an amazing job with it. And in
| fairness, they really upped their game with the weather engine
| and flight models as well. It's a fine product.
|
| Otherwise, X-plane 12 is pretty compelling as well and it
| probably wins in the flight model department in terms of just
| modeling a lot of weird and niche stuff out of the box. Most
| people will never notice but it's there to appreciate for those
| that can appreciate these things.
|
| And with the right scenery, it doesn't look half bad either.
| E.g. orbx has scenery for both sims and I suspect things look
| pretty close with that. And there are some nice free add-ons
| that will get you closer to the MS experience but probably not
| all the way. E.g. Simheaven.com is getting ready with an
| xplane-12 release; completely free.
|
| X-plane 12 is a pretty big upgrade if you were using or
| familiar with x-plane 11:
|
| - volumetric clouds and weather updates
|
| - the rendering is gorgeous in comparison
|
| - lots of refinement in flight models, audio, ATC, weather
| engine, etc.
|
| - Lots of nice new default planes
|
| - Amazing work on the sound. Seeing a jet take off is one
| thing. But hearing the rumble is another thing.
|
| Give the free demo a spin. Easiest way to find out if it's
| worth your money. Works great on recent Macbooks with the M1
| processor.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| The experience in VR is much much better in X-Plane. Sadly it
| doesn't have the amazingly realistic cities and world textures
| of MSFS but the controls work so much better. Especially
| X-Plane's "ergonomic yoke" which uses the tilt sensor in the
| controller instead of having to hold up your hand in thin air.
| MSFS is far behind this.
|
| And why call out VR specifically? Well, VR is in my opinion
| absolutely groundbreaking in flight simulation. I've flown
| small planes too and I've never felt that a flightsim was able
| to provide the feeling of flying. Until VR that is. Now it's
| amazing.
| mdip wrote:
| First, thanks for the info -- you answered my question, too.
| :) > VR is in my opinion absolutely
| groundbreaking in flight simulation.
|
| I completely agree. I'm not a pilot nor interested in
| becoming one. My Dad owned his company and flew a plane for
| work[0]. He used the 1980s version of Flight Simulator to get
| licensed for IFR flying. I was impressed with the latest, but
| if there _ever_ was a use for VR, it 's this. You've got a
| panel full of instruments in front of you and an array of
| windows to look out of. At least _half_ of the "controlling"
| in that game involves looking at specific places/in specific
| directions. Everything would be much more natural if I could
| control what I was looking at by ... moving my head.
|
| So far I've held off on buying any VR-related non-sense
| because I have yet to find something that it would improve
| the experience of enough to warrant spending money on. It
| sounds like this might be getting me closer?
|
| [0] I've written at length about this in the past, but he
| owned his company and sold to manufacturing plants. Many were
| out-of-state, so the plane allowed him to get to a few
| appointments and back home without a hotel stay -- or ...
| "gave him an excuse to own a plane". You pick :)
| dwringer wrote:
| Have you tried something like a TrackIR? It gives you the
| ability to do what you describe in a cockpit, as well as
| using your head to fix your eyes on a point of the
| horizon/landscape/object during maneuvers. I haven't tried
| a flight simulator with a VR headset, but TrackIR increases
| immersion so much that I never felt like I was missing the
| experience.
|
| Admittedly it can take some tweaking to get the response
| curves calibrated to what feels natural, and it never feels
| as natural as simply looking around (but I'd argue putting
| on a headset comes with ergonomic issues of its own).
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| If you think TrackIR increases immersion that much you
| _really_ need to try a VR headset and get your mind blown
| :)
|
| The 3D vision (a horizon never looks the same on a
| screen), full 6DOF tracking (you can look over your
| shoulder, bend down etc), motion controllers with which
| you can turn buttons.. It feels so real.
|
| Even the way you look out the window to see if it's time
| for the turn to base, it just looks like how it looks
| when you do it in a real airplane. Seeing it on a flat
| screen is really not the same.
| meheleventyone wrote:
| TrackIR doesn't really compare. I went from TrackIR to VR
| for multiplayer IL2 and the difference is stratospheric
| in terms of actually feeling "in" the aircraft. It also
| significantly improved my gunnery.
| leobg wrote:
| What headset do you use or recommend? Thx
| nightski wrote:
| I used to spend a lot of time in flight simulators and am
| very interested in VR. What headsets have you used? Just a
| Quest 2? Or one of the high end ones?
| zeusk wrote:
| The samsung odyssey"+" is the best flight sim headset imo;
| they use some sort of screen to reduce the pixel/screen
| door effect and it works wonders in making stuff look
| realistic.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Yeah I've never tried that one, as Samsung never even
| bothered to sell it in Europe :(
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I have used a Rift CV1, a Quest 1 and now a Quest 2.
|
| What I like about the Q2 is that it's cheap and offers wifi
| capability so I can sit on the couch far from the PC. More
| relaxing that way.
|
| Sometimes I use real controllers and I got a USB extender
| cable for that.
| TedShiller wrote:
| XPlane is a simulator. MSFS is a game.
| beardedscotsman wrote:
| That's not entirely true. They gameafy some aspects for sure,
| but that's just about accessibility. You can run it like a
| full sim and there are great videos of real Boeing pilots
| talking about it.
|
| Even the old flight sim was so advanced MSFT had contracts
| with the French military for their mapping tech from the game
| specifically. This is back in the day now.
| asciimike wrote:
| Here's a great example of why the flight model is...
| lacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GX9lTvKuqU
|
| It's perfectly fine for most things, but _really_ bad with
| things that could actually kill you.
|
| Meanwhile, in X-Plane land:
| https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/02/x-plane-12-flight-
| mode...
| mrguyorama wrote:
| "The flight model" is kind of inaccurate when it comes to
| MSFS. They've always used a system that allows the
| aircraft developer significant authority to make their
| aircraft as simulated or gamified as they want.
|
| IE, a pmdg boeing will be hugely better simulated than
| the built in boeing.
| daviding wrote:
| Fans are tribal. Recent reviews shows practically no
| difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzokcKkEyuE
| Applejinx wrote:
| There is no comparison to X-Plane land <3
| cypress66 wrote:
| Not only that video is very old (there have been multiple
| improvements), people that are even remotely serious
| don't use the default aircraft which are always awful,
| they buy payware aircraft that are much better modeled.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| To be fair, you do have to buy some expensive addons to
| make it that realistic. Most of the buttons in the included
| boeing don't work at all.
| McDev wrote:
| I used MSFS a lot for practising VFR navigation / dead
| reckoning skills, very helpful for that with how good the
| scenery is. Not sure I could achieve the same in XPlane
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Yeah if you fly VFR in areas you know real-world, it's
| really helpful to have the photorealistic scenery in MSFS!
| bitL wrote:
| It's only photorealistic if you use 10-20m DEM, otherwise
| any mountainous area just feels completely off and
| unrecognizable (try to fly over Alps with the default
| DEM, I couldn't recognize anything around Oberstdorf
| etc.)
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I don't know the alps area :) But I find the surroundings
| of Barcelona very realistic!
| bitL wrote:
| Does Montserrat look realistic in FS 2020? I remember how
| recognizable it was from Tibidabo but I couldn't find it
| when I was flying around Barcelona last time.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I think it does yeah. You only see its iconic look really
| well from the Barcelona angle though! I'd have to check
| as I haven't really paid attention to it to be honest.
| thecosmicfrog wrote:
| Let's not start this. There are plenty of pilots with real-
| world flight experience who vehemently disagree with this
| statement.
| haunter wrote:
| IFR flying is much better in Xplane especially if you enjoy
| sitting down doing 6 hour long flights.
|
| But VFR flying and just general _enjoyment_ of flying (like the
| worldwide coverage of terrain and airports and live weather)
| are much better in MSFS
|
| Both are really good though
| Applejinx wrote:
| I've had X-Plane back since version 7 or so. Get into binges
| with it and then stop for years.
|
| The reason for that is, my primary interest in X-Plane is
| DESIGNING planes to see if and how well they will fly. If it
| had the structural stuff in the short-lived Young's Modulus by
| the same guy I'd be even more interested... that's a big ask,
| however, and potentially very dangerous.
|
| Because people literally use X-Plane to design real planes, by
| making rough drafts of the aerodynamics, weights and balances
| of their proposed designs. X-Plane is a full-on blade element
| modeler right down to modelling the propellers of prop-driven
| planes also as little wings, and flight is simulated by taking
| all the airfoils etc. at various points of all wings and
| determining how the plane would fly with this collection of
| forces... for ALL MODELS.
|
| That's the only engine at work. You don't download 'new flight
| code' for new planes you get, just the aesthetics and the model
| that says what airfoils go where etc. and then the sim works
| out what would happen.
|
| If you wanted to fly your 747 but see what would happen if you
| stuck a Cessna engine 3 feet in from the left wingtip, MFS
| absolutely would not know where to begin with that. X-Plane
| would not only let you do it but would do a pretty decent job
| of showing what would happen.
|
| So it's kind of not even a comparison...
|
| Pretty hilarious getting downvotes on a nerd site for saying
| THIS. Bring it. I stand by what I said 100%, these are the
| things that matter in a simulator. For airplanes :)
| mazug wrote:
| I tried the latest MS Flight Simulator on X-Box. It was
| incredibly difficult to figure out how to set things up to
| reasonably simulate something like flying an ILS approach.
| Maybe on the PC it's better, but it just didn't seem to be the
| focus. And there's background music playing like it's an un-
| serious video game. X-Plane seems much more oriented towards
| realistically simulating the tasks involved in actually flying
| aircraft. Microsoft's seemed more oriented towards having
| pretty dang spectacular graphics and providing a fun experience
| for people who aren't really that interested in the rest of the
| minutiae of piloting aircraft. It's pretty cool that you can
| see your actual house on the Microsoft one though.
| gburdell3 wrote:
| I've found that MSFS works much better when you turn off all
| the "fun" stuff and use add-on aircraft. I enjoy flying
| Airbus planes, so using mods like FlyByWire (free) and Fenix
| (paid) can drastically improve the experience since the
| built-in A320neo is pretty barebones. Those mods can also
| load flight plans straight from SimBrief so I avoid ever
| using the built-in flight planner. I just load up at the gate
| with an empty flight plan, load in my real plan from
| SimBrief, and pretend I'm flying a real A320.
| deepsun wrote:
| I don't know much about both, but xplane is developed by
| private developer, he even made video how he fought against
| patent trolls: https://youtu.be/sG9UMMq2dz4
| LunarCamper wrote:
| Thank you for asking the single most important question for
| this article. :)
| clumsysmurf wrote:
| I've never used X-Plane or Microsoft Flight Simulator. Can anyone
| recommend a good $200 (or less) joystick?
| stevehawk wrote:
| any xbox/ps controller
| jillesvangurp wrote:
| I use a quite old MS Sidewinder Precision 2 joystick from 2008
| or so. Works fine with the X-plane 12 demo. Look for something
| that support rudders by twisting. I spent nowhere near 200$ at
| the time for this. I'm sure there are better options than this
| on the market right now. But I must say, this thing was pretty
| good value for money.
| mshockwave wrote:
| I play DCS and I'm using T.16000M FCS + HOTAS (you don't really
| need paddles unless you're flying helicopter). I'm primarily
| flying F-16 and these gears are really good. I only have minor
| complains so far, for example there is only one D-pad on the
| stick and the grip is too big for my tiny hand to sit on the
| palmrests
| WhipeeDip wrote:
| If you want both a stick and throttle for under $200, you'll
| likely want the Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS (~$150). If you're
| willing to add another ~$150 to the budget, I highly recommend
| the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO with the SCG Premium grip (~$210 with
| US shipping) and picking up the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle
| alone (~$130).
|
| Either way, the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle does have some
| stiction and you might want to clean it up, or even better 3D
| print/buy a slider replacement for about ~$40 on Etsy.
| eikenberry wrote:
| If you're a light player an T.16000m will work but they all
| die with hardware issues at some point. The matching TWCS
| throttle has similar issues. I'm a heavy space sim player and
| went through 2 T16000Ms and 3 TWCSs before switching fully
| over to VKB sticks.
|
| VKB sticks last longer (no issues after 2+ years heavy use),
| are repairable and VKB will sell you parts. Much nicer if you
| can afford it. Take a look at their youtube channel if you
| are curious about the repairibility.
| https://www.youtube.com/c/VKBSim
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| Just a VKB stick isn't actually as functional as a cheaper
| T16000M HOTAS with separate stick and throttle quadrant, so
| I'm not sure I'd recommend VKB unless you're getting the
| rest as well.
|
| A VKB setup is about $800 (dual THQ+SEM+FSM+stick+rudders)
| so... don't look at VKB until you've flown with a <$200
| HOTAS for a while and actually know what you enjoy flying
| (and whether that kind of flying even justifies buying into
| the whole "real controller" thing =)
| eikenberry wrote:
| The OP was just about a joystick and the VKB's Gladiator
| NXT EVO is a very nice one within their budget (<$200).
| It has a simple analog/throttle wheel on the base. IMO
| one of those is a much better investment than the
| thrustmaster HOTAS setup as it will last much, much
| longer and is still in their budget.
| eikenberry wrote:
| Forgot a link to VKB's site. :P
|
| https://vkbcontrollers.com/
| noir_lord wrote:
| > Either way, the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle does have some
| stiction and you might want to clean it up.
|
| It really does, I opened mine up and cleaned off all the
| factory grease, replacing it with a bog standard lithium
| grease (sparingly!) and the difference is night and day.
|
| Some people swear by the fancy silicon grease and I see a lot
| of good things but I'm fine with regular old lithium.
| HeavenFox wrote:
| It kinda depends on what kind of aircraft you want to fly.
|
| Thrustmaster t16000m is more geared towards military aircrafts.
|
| If you want to fly Airbus, TCA Officer Pack Airbus Edition
| (which under the hood is the t16000m) is very good and works
| well with FS2020's Airbus A320 (even better with the free
| FlyByWire A320 mod)
|
| If you want to fly general aviation aircrafts, the Logitech
| Yoke is pretty good. The Honeycomb Aviation stuff is much
| better but cost double your budget.
| kashunstva wrote:
| How is the feel of the Honeycomb yoke? The pitch axis on the
| Logitech is so sketchy especially in the flare. I'm most
| flight regimes you can trim away the mechanical
| imperfections, but in the final bit before touchdown it's a
| nuisance.
| theflyingelvis wrote:
| It's great
| abrax3141 wrote:
| I fly gliders and helis (for which, btw, x-plane is
| excellent), and none of the sticks I've tried feel right for
| these, neither of which have center return springiness. I've
| tried to clip the springs off of various sticks but just
| ended up breaking them. Any advice for a stick that doesn't
| have center return dynamics?
| falcolas wrote:
| You'll be looking for one with force feedback, so it will
| use motors instead of springs to "return".
|
| There are also some which use force sensors and the yoke
| itself doesn't really move at all. Much more of a fighter
| jet style stick.
|
| Unfortunately, I'm years out of date on what controllers
| are available with which mechanisms; sorry.
| abrax3141 wrote:
| BTW, both FS and xP are excellent. I use them both in various
| setting - mostly w/gliders and helis. xP (at least 11) is way
| slower to boot and a bit harder to use. For casual flight, FS
| is my go to. BTW, I use them both on a Rift, and they are both
| very good. (I actually would use FS more, because of the boot
| time, but the thermal sim in FS is way too weak, so it's too
| hard to climb a glider. FS is actually a bit more realistic
| this way, but giving up a little realism for the ability to get
| to thermal more easily and to a higher altitude is with it. If
| I need to be scratching around for lift I wouldn't be flying
| that day!)
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| an xbox controller, until you've actually messed around in them
| and have a feel for what you want to fly, because that's going
| to determine what controller you want more than anything else.
| GiorgioG wrote:
| An XBox controller works great. I have a yoke (honeycomb) that
| I paid a good bit of money for but is annoying to mount for
| just a quick flight around...so it sits in the corner of my
| office.
| themikesanto wrote:
| I enjoy my Thrustmaster T1600M, it was $150:
|
| https://www.thrustmaster.com/products/t-16000m-fcs-hotas/
| Melatonic wrote:
| Thrustmaster T16000m is popular
| bitL wrote:
| The same, including throttle and pedals. FS 2020 + VR +
| T16000M feels quite realistic based on my pilot training.
| Nition wrote:
| Whatever you get, make sure it has a twist axis. You can
| control the plane's rudder with it. Most do - even the basic
| Logitech Extreme 3D Pro is fine - but some don't.
| daviding wrote:
| It comes with a 15 minute demo of the Portland area, so can be
| tried on your system easily. It's also cross platform.
| alphanumeric0 wrote:
| Does anyone know if they've fixed the AI and ATC?
|
| I distinctly remember in previous versions watching the AI
| aircraft bounce off the ground repeatedly in an attempt to reach
| an incorrect flight level given to them by the ATC. That kind of
| ruined the illusion for me.
|
| It's a great sim, overall, I think it has a different set of
| priorities from MSFS, which is totally fine. I only wish I could
| have the best of both worlds.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| MSFS has similarly awful ATC though.
|
| If you really want good ATC, yeah VATSIM or IVAO.
| cameronh90 wrote:
| The ATC AI is still pretty awful I'm afraid. I would look into
| VATSIM if you like realism.
| mm007emko wrote:
| PilotEdge is IMHO better option than Vatsim, although it is
| paid for.
| palijer wrote:
| Perhaps the flight level given by ATC is correct, but the
| instrument calibration is not set correctly.
| amelius wrote:
| I didn't use a flight sim in 20 years or so.
|
| But do they have a library of safety incidents, which you can
| then replay?
| alberth wrote:
| Are you Captain Sully? :)
| petee wrote:
| If they don't I'm sure you can add them, X-plane is fairly open
| I've heard.
|
| I have MSFS 2020, I know of at least one user created 'mission'
| that puts lets you try and land on the Hudson like Capt Sully
| Jamie9912 wrote:
| The answer is no, they don't
| thot_experiment wrote:
| I'm also curious about this. I love challenging situations in
| flight sims and it would be fun to replay real scenarios, or
| even have a tool where you could just set it to randomly pick
| one or a couple problems off a list and cause them to manifest
| at some point in the flight.
|
| I haven't done much simming recently sadly, WarThunder VR
| support has been broken for over a year and sadly my CPU isn't
| strong enough for X-Plane 11, but I'll probably be picking up
| one of the new AMD chips this fall so I'm excited to get back
| into it.
| imoverclocked wrote:
| X-Plane 11 has the ability to randomly fail equipment with
| parameters that you give it. It can also save a scenario so
| all the components already exist for something like this.
| codingpanic wrote:
| Excellent! Cant wait to see what the performance is on M1 Max.
|
| Just purchased and they sent me two keys... opened a ticket to
| let them know.
| daviding wrote:
| During the early access / beta period one of the keys might be
| for X-Plane 11. I think that's the deal.
| codingpanic wrote:
| I would have thought the second email would have stated
| "Xplane 11 key"?
|
| Both say 12.
| daviding wrote:
| Hmm odd, not sure then. I'll take it, if it's not being
| used ;)
|
| I had a look on where I read about the X-Plane 11 keys
| during the beta, it's here - https://developer.x-plane.com/
| 2022/05/x-plane-12-development...
| dmix wrote:
| How big is the install on Mac? The downloaded doesn't say.
| m348e912 wrote:
| unzip and double click the installer
| incomingpain wrote:
| I suspect fseconomy won't be updated for some time.
|
| I am disappointed to see xplane 12 not including fseconomy or
| similar right in the game.
| dang wrote:
| Related:
|
| _X-Plane 12 Flight Model Update - Supersonic Transition, Delta
| Wings and Mass_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31827301 -
| June 2022 (126 comments)
| pohl wrote:
| Every time I see an X-Plane article my heart skips a beat, then I
| realize it's not about XPilot.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-09-13 23:02 UTC)