[HN Gopher] U.S. ethanol plants are allowed to pollute more than...
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U.S. ethanol plants are allowed to pollute more than oil refineries
Author : DoubleDerper
Score : 30 points
Date : 2022-09-09 17:34 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| credit_guy wrote:
| > The EPA's resolve to rein in ethanol emissions faces a new test
| this year as Congressional mandates for expanding biofuels
| expire, placing the future of the RFS at the agency's discretion.
|
| Great. They should just stop this charade then. There are 30
| million acres planted with corn used for bioethanol production.
| Out of 90 million total acres planted with corn. For comparison,
| the US has about 800 million acres of forests.
| tengbretson wrote:
| This article does a great job of muddying the distinction of the
| CO2 output of corn production in general and the output of an
| actual ethanol plant.
|
| To focus on the claim in the title, calling the CO2 byproduct of
| yeast fermentation of a grain, in which its carbon all came from
| atmospheric sources in the first place comparable to the
| pollution of an oil refinery is absurd.
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| There's also the recent work suggesting oil refineries led to
| an uptick in strokes across the South-East US.
|
| https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac8943/...
|
| The 'pollute' in the headline is misleading enough to be
| considered a lie.
|
| In particular because the point of an oil refinary is to
| produce fossil fuels, which then get burnt, releasing fossil
| carbon.
|
| Having said all that, moving to EVs will reduce the use of corn
| ethanol anyway.
| Maursault wrote:
| > Having said all that, moving to EVs will reduce the use of
| corn ethanol anyway.
|
| Ethanol for fuel was stillborn in the US by using corn to
| create ethanol, which is too inefficient and competes with
| food. What ever happened to the 20:1 ratio of using
| switchgrass, which no one eats? And why mix ethanol with gas,
| anyway? We could just use pure ethanol, which is more
| performant than gas at the cost of a 1/3 of a tank less
| milage, which is a fair trade.
| tengbretson wrote:
| In my opinion this isn't the best lens to view ethanol
| through. If you start from the position that the government
| manipulating the food market to ensure a near-constant
| over-supply is beneficial for long-term food security, then
| the ability to funnel excess production back to a useful
| energy source at a rate even close to 1:1 is fine.
| Maursault wrote:
| > If you start from the position that the government
| manipulating the food market to ensure a near-constant
| over-supply is beneficial for long-term food security
|
| I don't agree with the premise. Oversupply causes waste,
| not food security.
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| I think we will slowly increase the ethanol content of
| gasoline as we transition to EVs, but still come out ahead,
| particularly in nations that make their ethanol in slightly
| greener ways than the US.
| Maursault wrote:
| I think it'd be better to cut off petroleum at the knees
| and just exclusively use biodiesel and pure ethanol, but
| made from a more efficient source than corn.
| dieselgate wrote:
| We could also use biodiesel produced with ethanol which is
| more performant than gas and allows maybe 35-50% (or more?)
| more mileage
|
| Edit: mileage
| Maursault wrote:
| The average distance driven is only 40 miles a day. What
| is the concern about having a vehicle capacity of 235
| miles as opposed to 400? If greater distance capacity is
| needed, biodiesel alone is an valid option. Mixing fuels
| just seems silly to me.
| dieselgate wrote:
| How do you mean mixing fuels being silly? I'm no expert
| but it seems quite common - hybrid vehicles for example;
| biodiesel with petrol diesel (and other things like motor
| oil); and not sure about gasoline but it seems to
| commonly be mixed with other things like ethanol.
| Maursault wrote:
| Silly in that it is not necessary. Any ICE vehicle can be
| converted inexpensively to burn pure ethanol, no petrol
| required. Any diesel will accept biodiesel as fuel
| without mixing with petrol. If fossil fuels are a
| problem, and ethanol and biodiesel covers all petrol
| applications, why bother keeping petrol around?
| Hanschri wrote:
| The US spends enormous amounts every year subsidizing corn, it's
| the reason for corn-based ethanol, high-fructose corn syrup
| instead of sugar, and so on. I've noticed this through
| SwiftOnSecurity on Twitter pointing this out. An interesting
| rabbithole.
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