[HN Gopher] Cravings for fatty foods traced to gut-brain connection
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Cravings for fatty foods traced to gut-brain connection
Author : gmays
Score : 61 points
Date : 2022-09-09 17:27 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (zuckermaninstitute.columbia.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (zuckermaninstitute.columbia.edu)
| snoopy_telex wrote:
| I've always been told to listen to my gut... so here's to some
| more tasty fries!
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Fries are mainly carbs not fats though.
| k__ wrote:
| To how much %?
| BlargMcLarg wrote:
| 60-65ish fat, 30-35ish carbs. Still only 200kcal per 100g
| and we aren't considering sauces used. There's a lot worse
| you can get per 100g.
| have_faith wrote:
| Depends how thin you cut the fries, more surface area can
| hold onto more oil.
| paulpauper wrote:
| maybe the solution is as simple as something to dull taste
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| That's what Tournesol does in Tintin but for alcohol, makes it
| taste super gross. (link but in French
| https://tintinomania.com/tintin-picaros-vaccin-antialcool)
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| Fatty foods are good. No one sits around with a spoon eating
| butter. Just don't pair high fat with high carbs; that combo
| leads to over-eating everytime.
| astrange wrote:
| > No one sits around with a spoon eating butter.
|
| Tibetans do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_tea
|
| Californians, who love pretending to be Tibetan, call it
| bulletproof coffee.
| melony wrote:
| Steaks for every meal sounds like an ideal, if not pricey,
| diet.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| Extremely non environmental friendly however. Beef should be
| a treat.
| isthisthingon99 wrote:
| I moved to the middle of nowhere-ish, where there is zero
| food delivery (except Amazon).
|
| I've been eating steak for dinner for a long time, and yes
| it's expensive. But I feel great, and I lost weight.
| fierro wrote:
| Weird that this is framed as a bad thing. Fats are good.
| jmount wrote:
| Seems a bit circular in what such audiences seem to expect.
|
| Any dietary craving likely have, in addition to mere
| psychological triggers, likely has some biological triggers. A
| biological trigger related to food craving often ends up being
| called a "gut-brain connection" no matter what (including if it
| is blood chemistry).
| hinkley wrote:
| And it's very fuzzy whether when we say 'gut' we mean the
| organs we call intestines, or the organs plus their contents.
| Biologically speaking, the former is practically a rounding
| error of the latter.
|
| There are some theories out there at least partially supported
| by experiments that some gut bacteria are extorting behavior
| from us with their exudates. Give me sugar I make you happy.
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| i'm literally amazed how much is brain related. I've been obese
| my whole life, highest weight was 690 in 2012, had surgery got
| down to < 500 but yoyoing between 400/500 ever since. After
| covid I got really anxious/depressed and was at my highest
| weight. I'm told also if I had skin surgery, I'd probably lose
| 75 pounds of just skin, but I was kinda waiting till I got
| below 350 as a sort of 'target'.
|
| Since May when I started wellbutrin for depression, that mixed
| w/ my vyvanse for ADHD has made me feel so much better. I tried
| SSRI's and they just gave me ED.
|
| I've organically lost 50 pounds since May without even dropping
| soda, I just don't eat junk food, and a few days I've forgotten
| to eat at all when my wife was out of town. Literally, I have
| no cravings. Haven't tried adjusting anything in my diet,
| haven't thought about it, just haven't wanted anything
| chocolate or sweet, except maybe when I'm not intensely focused
| on work (i.e. get bored). I actually feel a little perturbed
| when my family wants dinner because I'd rather not eat and do
| something more enjoyable.
|
| I'm planning on going back on keto and adding fitness (only
| thing I've had success w/), which by itself always stopped
| cravings but at the cost of keeping track of carbs and what
| not, and switching to crystal light (I have a hatred for the
| taste or lack thereof of water , I've tried and tried different
| types etc, <5 cal lemonade packet though and I can down those,
| and my dr's have said that's way better than soda). Side note I
| think my water aversion is related my bitter aversion (Beer,
| coffee, etc taste like shit - i can stomach beer sometimes
| depending on brand, but I'd rather have a margarita).
| orangepurple wrote:
| > Literally, I have no cravings
|
| You overcame leptin resistance
|
| > water aversion
|
| Water consumption is CRITICAL for long term weight loss.
| Minimum 1 liter per day. Ideally a gallon or more per day.
| 6stringmerc wrote:
| For my blood pressure my Doctor told me to cut down on
| Sodium. Like you, water bores me, unless it's basically 32.5
| F and bottomless on demand. As in not happening. So I drank
| Gatorade or G2. He told me to look at the sodium level - holy
| moly I was so wrong!
|
| Been reading labels ever since and apparently coconut water
| is becoming a 10% base for a lot of new gen drinks. Body
| Armor is 40 cal. I found a new to me one, Prime Hydration,
| that's 25 cal for 16 oz and 10 mg sodium and has real
| flavor!!
| axus wrote:
| Spindrift and all the unsweetened carbonated drinks are a
| pretty good "Methadone for soda pop".
| colechristensen wrote:
| Do you hate Aquafina bottled water?
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| I think the only bottled I can kinda stomach is maybe Fiji.
| I haven't tried the really expensive glass bottle kind...
| Though I'd probably do better with anything not in can or
| plastic because even soda tastes shittier when it's been
| incubating in aluminum or plastic.
|
| You simply put coke in a glass bottle you get a totally
| less chemical taste. Probably a lot less bpa in your blood
| too.
|
| I'll often get a fountain water 32oz though and add a sugar
| free lemonade packet and the sourness even if it's not
| sweet makes me drink more of it .
|
| I'm not sure if you're supposed to drink distilled water
| but I tried it and it tasted the best of all the gallon
| waters at the store. I think it was because it was the most
| tasteless...
| colechristensen wrote:
| Yeah, specifically asked about aquafina because it's
| reverse osmosis water and should be entirely tasteless.
|
| It is, uh, not entirely ideal to drink completely
| decriminalized water because if you're not getting those
| minerals from other sources they tend to get depleted
| over time. Much more of an issue for, say, a post-
| menopausal woman than a younger person.
|
| Distilled or RO water might be your best bet.
|
| Those ZeroWater filters produce a very similar result.
|
| I dislike the taste of most not-completely-clean water,
| but for me it's just a dislike, I do it plenty. Might be
| you should just force yourself to do it and you'll get
| used to it after a while. If you deprive yourself of
| sugary flavored water for a while it will start to taste
| strange to be having something so sweet, but it'll take a
| few weeks.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| So now I can blame my poor dietary choices and comfort eating on
| my "gut-brain connection"? Sweet! /s
|
| But in all seriousness, this was already known. We are wired from
| evolution to de drawn to fatty foods, from the caveman times when
| food was a scarce luxury, and fats were a dense source of
| calories that could keep out bodies going for longer especially
| in harsh climates, therefore eating as much fat as you could find
| was a must for survival. In the middle age paintings, a lot of
| women were on the plus side as the body fat was a sign of health,
| wealth, good nutrition, fertility and capacity to carry out
| pregnancies and feed babies.
|
| But in our modern sedentary world where calories are abundant (in
| the west at least) fatty foods are more of a health risk than a
| benefit for the general population.
|
| But still, I love the taste of fatty foods and loathe the taste
| of the low-fat variants. Cappucino just tastes like crap with
| soy/low-fat milk. Cheese and butter tastes amazing. Fatty fish
| and foul is a delight. Beef cuts with lots of marbling is better.
| And in general, foods cooked in animal fat are something else. To
| me at least, other people might have different tastes. But now I
| know I can blame my caveman ancestors for my cravings.
|
| There's also this new keto diet that sprung up in the weight-
| loss, body-building circles a while back, based on this theory
| that we should feed like our caveman ancestors, using only
| proteins and fats with zero carbs. I'm not an expert so I cannot
| comment on this diet though.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| If anyone's got tricks for making healthy food that doesn't
| rely on "cheating" with a bunch of added fats (dairy, animal
| fats, oils) in order to make them something people actually
| _want_ to eat, rather than reluctantly tolerating at best, I 'd
| really like to know them. As it is, I try to make a healthy
| dish in my house--recipe or just winging it, either way--it's
| guaranteed to be roundly panned (even I usually don't like them
| much), but I make the exact same thing with liberal use of
| added fats, and everyone loves it.
|
| All the e.g. veggie-heavy dishes we eat that don't elicit a
| groan either call for lots of fat to begin with (say, cream or
| coconut milk curry sauces) or are ones I've modified by adding
| a bunch of e.g. butter. It's even a reliable trick for taking
| things like soups from "meh" to "wow, that's great!"--generous
| splash of cream, or butter, or oil.
|
| As far as I can tell the full eating-healthy rule should be,
| "eat food, mostly plants, not too much-- _and add shitloads of
| fat to it if you don 't want to dread every single meal_". I'd
| love to know other effective "cheats" that don't turn every
| dish into a calorie-bomb. Though I guess omitting the fat makes
| the "not too much" part super-easy.
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| Personally, I think people are looking for the wrong thing.
| Try instead to keep your daily carb count under 60 grams, and
| eat as much protein as possible from cheese/lean proteins but
| also some fatty if you like. My faves when I'm doing keto
| are: Brisket, cheese, sugar free pudding for craving control
| or chobani greek yogurt, bacon, hamburger, chicken. I tend to
| keep it simple just rotating through easy things to keep on
| hand, like I'll pick up a pound of pre-smoked brisket at the
| supermarket in town and heat that up for dinner.
|
| The issue i think more is calorie in/calorie out as well as
| switching your metabolism some. Keto-eating does this really
| well.
|
| Low fat was the fad diet of the 80s/90s everything was low
| fat this or that, and it was the biggest growth in obesity
| ever. Sugar / Starches is what really leads to obesity not
| fatty foods. 'fatty' is a misnomer, I mean it just means
| animal 'fats', doesn't mean it causes you to become 'fatter'.
| BlargMcLarg wrote:
| Most 'high fatty foods' in diets of obese people are loaded
| with empty carbs and contain tons of sugar. Even if article is
| right on the desire for fats, it completely skips over sweets,
| cookies, sugared drinks and food with sugar added to it for
| practically no reason beyond taste.
|
| Even cheese is incredibly difficult to get obese from. Ask the
| keto people if they could eat 300g of cheese in the first week,
| most average people struggle with a mere 100g.
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| I struggle to get 1200 calories when I'm doing keto. I'm over
| 400 pounds, I'm losing weight now from my depression med I
| switched to this past Spring (Wellbutrin), apparently
| depression led to more eating than I realized. I've made no
| changes at all other than I don't crave chocolate/sweets, and
| have been intermittently fasting a bit because I feel eating
| is just a waste of time anymore. I can't even suggest food to
| my wife for dinner because nothing sounds good, as in
| literally eating nothing sounds like better than eating
| dinner. I went 3 days without food just to test the craving
| thing and literally didn't have hunger pangs, or nothing.
| Zero desire for food.
|
| It was similar to how I felt when I'd first had weight loss
| surgery in 2012 when I was 690 (I'm a big guy, so I was still
| very mobile at 690, just probably 50 pounds maybe from not
| being so, and in pain/etc - I was 32 then, dropped to 500 in
| 2 years, and stayed between 415-515 ever since.
|
| Few years ago, I was doing crossfit, and keto and dropped to
| my lowest of 400 in 3 months from my starting weight of 515.
| Depression/anxiety from covid sent me back up to 515, and
| since may I've lost 50 pounds still drinking soda or whatever
| I want. Just not eating junk food, or sweets and probably
| eating less meals altogether. I also have switched to bottled
| soda, as I tend to drink less when I have to take a lid off
| something rather than sip from a straw.
|
| TLDR: I have much experience with this and when in ketosis
| fats are actually probably good for you, fat is always better
| for you than sugar, the low-fat fads have a history of being
| funded by the sugar industry. Low fat oreos that have the
| same amount of sugar will not make you weigh less. Period. If
| they cut out 100% of the fat, but none of the sugar you'd
| probably not lose a pound eating the same amount, hell you
| might gain weight if the fat actually made you eat less which
| it can do, but probably not when ghrellin is increased by the
| sugar intake.
|
| I could live off sticks of cheese, and 2 pounds of brisket
| per week probably and switch to flavored water over soda and
| lose 100 lbs easy and I'd struggle to hit 1200 calories. When
| I'm full of sugar I can easily hit 2-3k, I can't eat a lot at
| once but cakes are 'slider foods' and can basically go down
| easy 24/7. If I go to dinner w/ wife we usually get one main
| dish and a side to split between her, myself and two
| toddlers. My "sleeve" only allows so much 'heavy' food at
| once, so I get full fast. I get full faster if I don't drink
| w/ my meals, as that pushes it through my stomach faster.
|
| There's definitely some change that happens on keto, but I
| think the problem is maybe if you mix high fat AND high
| sugar, well sugar is evil period, but that's probably when
| you metabolise things differently and break things down
| differently. If fat/protein is your only food source no
| sugar, you start breaking down your own fat stores more and
| generally take in less calories.
|
| I dare anyone to eat sugar for 2 weeks, then switch to keto
| for 2 weeks and try to ingest the same amount of calories.
| It's impossible. You're lucky if you could do half, probably.
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| keto works like a charm, only thing that's ever worked for
| me... Fatty foods really aren't that bad -- good fats anyways.
| Marbling on brisket is def. the good kind ;). Probably less so
| on bacon, because of nitrates, and probably better to get more
| protein from lean meats but if you need a pound or two of
| brisket a week to stay on keto that's perfectly acceptable ;).
|
| When your carb deprived you don't crave sugar, bread, etc.
| THESE are what really put fat on, also things like candy, soda,
| hostess cakes, etc.. all of which are the kinda fatty things I
| crave and keep me obese. Though I've organically lost 50 pounds
| since May, just by trying a new depression med - Wellbutrin,
| which makes sense since it's used for smoking cessation, and
| increases dopamine levels which is basically why I probably ate
| foods like that in the first place (to feel good).
|
| If I add some exercise, and better diet I'd probably lose a lot
| more. I haven't even cut soda, I just don't desire sweets or
| food at all--which I didn't think was possible except when I'm
| in ketosis, but apparently the mind/body link is bigger than I
| thought. Never realized how much my depression controlled me.
| drewcoo wrote:
| None of that is relevant. The article about a mechanism to
| trigger fat cravings regardless of taste.
|
| Your namesake avoids the problem entirely.
|
| https://blackbeltmag.com/chuck-norris-anti-aging/dinner
|
| > [Chuck Norris] stopped eating red meat, processed oils, and
| fat some time ago.
| givemeethekeys wrote:
| Pregnant women often crave pickles that are not fatty. Human gut
| sensors are unlike mouse gut sensors.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| That's likely due to an increased need for sodium as blood
| volume increases.
|
| You're correct that mouse studies aren't perfect, but nor are
| they worthless.
|
| Anecdotally, a family member got a gastric bypass and had the
| food cravings they'd struggled with for decades go away
| overnight.
| givemeethekeys wrote:
| The title, without explicitly saying that the article is
| about mice implies that the subject matter is about people.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| The subtitle starts with "Mouse research", in 36px font.
| They're not exactly hiding it, and it matches up with other
| evidence observed in humans who've had stomach revisions.
| givemeethekeys wrote:
| Do you think the article ended up on the front page
| because of the clear subtitle?
| ceejayoz wrote:
| I think it ended up on the front page because it's
| interesting.
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| That's probably mineral related as someone else said. My wife's
| best friend actually craved dirt and wanted to suck on rocks,
| probably for whatever mineral she could smell or get from those
| sources. Odd how your body knows where things are that you're
| lacking. I wonder if that works for sunlight too when D
| deficient.
| BlargMcLarg wrote:
| They also may have cravings for dairy and red meat. Both food
| groups known to be high in fat when prepared proper and without
| intentionally trimming the fat. Peanut butter, too.
| givemeethekeys wrote:
| They also crave junk food, known for its high transfat and
| sugar content.
| BlargMcLarg wrote:
| I mean, good job discrediting your own comment? It's pretty
| obvious pregnant women aren't the well-studied population
| of humans allowing you to discredit a study in mice.
| givemeethekeys wrote:
| What I'm trying to say is that craving fats isn't some
| kind of a revelation. People crava all kinds of things,
| including fats.
|
| That the gut and the brain are somehow linked isn't a big
| reveal either.
|
| I'm just failing to see what the big deal with this
| research paper is.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| They found the nerves that link them for this specific
| purpose, the cells that send the specific signal, and a
| drug that blocks it. That combination of findings seems
| useful.
|
| (And demonstrated it not to be a taste-based craving,
| which is neat too.)
|
| Consider the possibility that it's appearance in the
| journal Nature means more than a shallow dismissal is
| called for.
| codyb wrote:
| That's interesting, I wonder if the brain ends up making a
| map from foods to nutrition profile in order to cause
| cravings to food that'll satisfy a need.
|
| For instance, I've heard of people craving grapes before to
| get the Vitamin C maybe (just an example), but if a human
| lived in an area without grapes, presumably they'd crave the
| closest local equivalent that'd get the vitamin they needed?
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