[HN Gopher] Purring is a love language no human can speak
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Purring is a love language no human can speak
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 157 points
       Date   : 2022-09-08 12:14 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
        
       | steveBK123 wrote:
       | I've always interpreted it as the intersection of happiness &
       | self soothing. Sort of like a hum or song for humans.
        
         | topspin wrote:
         | Cats have a several of those signs. Slow blinking, still tail,
         | etc. Seems like it's very important to signal when they're
         | relaxed and secure and when they're not; likely because they're
         | full of claws and teeth.
         | 
         | I inherited a male cat, now about 4, with a property. He
         | couldn't follow the previous owner because he mostly lives in
         | the woods and there is none at the new place. He is wonderful
         | and amazing. I send videos and the guy tears up when he gets
         | them. One nick name for him is Garage Lion.
         | 
         | Yesterday I had to invent 'cat sticks.' He likes to sleep
         | curled up in my planters and that kills the sprouts. So all the
         | planters but one -- the designated cat planter -- have random
         | sticks now...
        
           | steveBK123 wrote:
           | The slow blinking thing is the best
        
             | codeduck wrote:
             | slow blinks aka kitty kisses
        
             | linguistics__ wrote:
             | Indeed, in Danish the verb 'misse' means to slow blink like
             | a cat, and comes from the word 'mis' which can be
             | translated as 'kitty' or 'pussy-cat'.
        
       | billforsternz wrote:
       | I remember idly commenting to a colleague once "Scientists don't
       | know how cats purr" (I'd read it on the internet so it must have
       | been true).
       | 
       | He replied pointedly "They must be stupid then, they do it like
       | this ...." and he started purring just like a cat.
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | I'm on the side of "vocal tic"; the non-purring cats are
       | intentionally trying _not_ to purr, while purring itself is just
       | relaxed or tired breathing. Sort of like vocal fry in humans.
        
         | saghm wrote:
         | That's definitely consistent with one of my cats! (Not that
         | it's inconsistent with the other; she's just a better example
         | of this). She's basically constantly purring while awake unless
         | she's making some other sound, and a lot of the time the other
         | sounds she makes seems like they're almost unintentional; she
         | chirps loudly when jumping (almost like a grunt of effort, a
         | habit I've seen in plenty of other cats as well), or if she's
         | running towards something with interest (e.g. running over to
         | hop on the bed when she wants to cuddle) in a way that almost
         | makes it seem like she's just exhaling hard and not bothering
         | to put in the effort to avoid making a sound while doing so.
         | Sometimes if a sound out in the hallway of the apartment
         | surprises her, she'll jump off of wherever she's currently
         | laying down (usually my desk or a couch) and let out this low,
         | rumbly growl that I could totally believe is just a fight-or-
         | flight reaction (she always chooses "fight"; if something falls
         | off a table or something and makes a loud sound, she always
         | runs _towards_ it as if she's expecting some sort of threat she
         | has to defend us against). The only sound she makes that I'm
         | fairly positive is intention is when she meows sweetly in a
         | plea for pity, which only happens when I'm bringing her wet
         | food bowl over to her dining spot, when she's in her cat
         | carrier on the way to the vet and wants to be let out, or when
         | I'm holding her still so we can trim her claws. Her meows are
         | so different from her regular "chirping" sound that it's hard
         | not to conclude that they're mostly just a way to try to guilt
         | us rather than an actual sign of distress; she's quite
         | effective at the "mimic a human baby sound to elicit sympathy"
         | trick.
        
       | poulsbohemian wrote:
       | This article bothers me, because it feels like it is trying to
       | make this more complicated than necessary.
       | 
       | "I don't think we have any studies that are like, I sat with a
       | purring cat on my broken leg for 15 minutes a day; I healed more
       | rapidly than someone else,"
       | 
       | That may be true, but I guarantee anyone with a cat has been part
       | of a "purr circle." I was sick about a month ago, and all of my
       | cats _knew it before I did_ and made a point to stay extra close
       | and then to pile on me when I finally did go to bed to rest for
       | the day. When one of our cats was near his end, those last few
       | days they held vigil the same as you or I might around someone in
       | hospice. Is the purring therapeutic? Hard to say, but to the cat
       | it clearly holds ritual.
       | 
       | >Nor can experts say, exactly, what purring means.
       | 
       | This is an odd thing for the article author to write, when they
       | then proceed to demonstrate what any cat owner knows - cats purr
       | for a variety of reasons and the human has to interpret based on
       | the context. They purr when they are happy, they purr when they
       | are scared, they purr when someone is sick, they purr to entice
       | you to give treats. Wouldn't surprise me if the frequency is
       | someday found to be different between purr types or some other
       | nuance that might not be obvious. I've observed that a happy purr
       | is often more sustained than a scarred purr.
        
       | fareesh wrote:
       | For some time now I've suspected that the cat can't control the
       | purring, it happens on its own like laughter and there's a domino
       | effect
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | I can actually purr very realistically, and my cats appear to be
       | interested when I do, although of course I haven't the slightest
       | idea of what I'd be saying to them:)
       | 
       | If you want to try you need to imitate first the letter "R" as
       | they do in France, which is roughly done by exhaling while
       | keeping the upper rear part of the tongue in slight contact with
       | the rear of the palate. It comes easy to me as I had this "R"
       | pronunciation until about 17 when I started correcting it (with
       | some of the family disapproving). Now do the same but not using
       | any vocal cords, that is, only breath, then repeat also while
       | inhaling. Keeping the mouth barely open helps a lot to give it
       | its particular sound which with practice can become really close
       | to a real cat purring.
        
         | SamBam wrote:
         | I can do that pretty well on the exhale, but no way for me on
         | the inhale.
        
           | arbitrage wrote:
           | Practice will improve the result. Same with whistling. I can
           | whistle quite well on the inhale, now. It took me years to
           | get right, simply because we don't make that motion with our
           | face parts very often at all.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | You might want to try to learn "circular breathing" which is
           | the technique used to make a continuous sound while playing a
           | didgeridoo.
           | 
           | You can learn with a straw and a glass of water so no need to
           | find or purchase a didgeridoo, though they are fun to play.
        
             | SamBam wrote:
             | The sound comes from my throat. Circular breathing involves
             | a continuous exhalation from the mouth forward, but the air
             | in the throat still moves forward and backward, so it
             | doesn't help.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | used to make a continuous sound while playing any wind
             | instrument
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | As an australian child I was told is was a special
               | australian thing so please do not puncture my bubble!
               | 
               | OK, with the obligatory jingoism out of the way: that's
               | quite interesting. And having heard a long note held for
               | some time, I'm embarrassed not to have realized this on
               | my own.
        
               | mrguyorama wrote:
               | It's used by some jazz brass players. It even works with
               | a Tuba! Though that is MUCH more difficult because of the
               | volume of air involved.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | My band teacher from middle/junior/high school tried to
               | teach it at different points to any/all that was
               | interested. There was one trumpet player and one sax
               | player that could do it when I was in school.
        
             | Enginerrrd wrote:
             | I can do what OP was describing on inhale and exhale, and I
             | have a small amount of didgeridoo experience, but I don't
             | think circular breathing works here. Mind you, I'm not GOOD
             | at circular breathing, but my understanding is that it
             | works by using the cheeks to force air through the lips as
             | you are inhaling.
             | 
             | The purring sound here though comes from too far back to
             | make that work, I can't get air to pass through that part.
        
           | jcims wrote:
           | Open it up until you're just barely 'purring' on exhale then
           | gently but quickly start to inhale (think of your breath as
           | the bow on a violin). There will be a slight timbre change
           | but cats have that too.
           | 
           | It sounds more like a dragon purring than a housecat but
           | close enough.
        
           | marzell wrote:
           | I find that an exhalar uvular trill can be similarly
           | effective
        
         | Traubenfuchs wrote:
         | I am always afraid this sounds too much like growling, which
         | they don't like.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | snarfy wrote:
       | Whenever my cats are purring when I pet them, I make an
       | affirmative 'uhmmmm hmmmm' humming sound, with pitch going up on
       | the uhmm and going down on the hmmm. It's not purring, but my
       | cats seem to get the idea.
        
       | log101 wrote:
       | It might sound odd but I can purr by exhaling while closing my
       | lips and putting my tongue at a certain position. This has
       | interesting outcomes, such as understanding why cats purr! Yes
       | because I also do it from time to time and somehow I can imagine
       | the situations one might have that need to purr. That's why I was
       | bit puzzled while reading the article because the purring is an
       | understandable act to me, not scientifically but psychologically.
        
       | hollywood_court wrote:
       | I purr pretty well for a 40 year old man. My cats always nuzzle
       | my neck whenever I start purring. Cats are amazing creatures. We
       | have two dogs and two cats.
       | 
       | Watching our cats interact with our baby when we brought him home
       | was a beautiful thing. The dogs were very curious and would lay
       | beside his crib each night but the cats would actually try to
       | help us.
       | 
       | They would alert us whenever the baby cried or became fussy. Now
       | that he's 3 years old, the cats follow him around everywhere and
       | they will come upstairs to the master bedroom to tell us when he
       | wakes during the night and each morning. They'll meow at us until
       | we go downstairs. Of course we have monitors and motion sensors
       | and such but it's cute watching the cats communicate.
       | 
       | It's the complete opposite of what I learned as a child watching
       | "Lady and the Tramp."
        
         | gnulinux wrote:
         | > Cats are amazing creatures.
         | 
         | This is it. It makes me so sad seeing online people claiming
         | cats are vengeful, aggressive, selfish animals. Cats have a
         | huge variety of personality and so, yes, some of them _are_
         | vengeful, aggressive and /or selfish. However, once an average
         | cat trusts you there is a very special kind of bond between you
         | guys that I only experienced with a long term human partner.
         | Cats are _amazing_ , _amazing_ creatures. Obviously I don 't
         | know what's going inside my cat's brain, whether he actually
         | experiences what we label "love", but his behavior is
         | oftentimes consistent with it. Every morning I wake up my cat
         | next to me and I feel so lucky to have experienced a cat's love
         | in my lifetime. I'm so thankful to our neolithic ancestors to
         | have domesticated and introduced these quirky, lovely little
         | mammals in our lives.
        
           | kortilla wrote:
           | I love cats but some of them absolutely do decimate local
           | bird populations in the local neighborhood when they are left
           | out unsupervised.
           | 
           | My grandparents' cat was like this. Very friendly to all
           | people but when left outside would usually have a bird killed
           | within a half hour.
        
             | poulsbohemian wrote:
             | >I love cats but some of them absolutely do decimate local
             | bird populations in the local neighborhood when they are
             | left out unsupervised.
             | 
             | Not disagreeing per se, but every time this comes up on HN
             | or in other public discourse, I ask for sources.
             | Specifically, there is a statement that I see used
             | regularly (including from the Audubon Society) that makes
             | claims on the order of "billions" of birds killed every
             | year by domestic cats.
             | 
             | The question isn't whether cats will hunt a bird or rodent,
             | but to my thinking whether their impact is any greater than
             | say the risk of birds running into windows, etc. Feels a
             | bit like when we blame the cow for burping (IE: doing what
             | it does naturally) as the cause of global warming while we
             | continue to drive around in our carbon-belching cars.
        
               | imustbeevil wrote:
               | The first result on Google for "how many birds are killed
               | by domesticated cats" is a scientific article from the
               | Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute and the U.S.
               | Fish and Wildlife Service.
               | 
               | https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
        
               | pvaldes wrote:
               | An article is as good as the data that supports the
               | research.
               | 
               | We have to keep in mind that this is an article based in
               | google search and bibliography and is just a very raw
               | estimate. Bibliography studies mostly the worse and
               | special cases. There is a risk into taking the worse
               | cases as a sample of the global situation.
               | 
               | Is a guess, much better than having none, but still a
               | guess. Don't overthink it
        
               | GVIrish wrote:
               | The thing I always wonder is, in habitats where birds
               | would normally have to deal with feline predators, how is
               | the domestic cat worse than that? Any birds in
               | environments that have feline predators would already be
               | adapted to avoidng cats, unlike say, small Australian
               | fauna.
               | 
               | I can understand the damage inflicted by cats in
               | environments that never had a very efficient bird
               | predator like cats (e.g. New Zealand and other islands).
               | But in North America there's the Bobcat, Lynx, Ocelot,
               | Margay, and Jaguarundi. Even without the domestic cat,
               | birds would still get eaten in sizable numbers by cats.
               | Sure there are a lot more domestic cats out there, but
               | without civilization there would be a lot more wildcats
               | out there eating birds.
               | 
               | Maybe the impact is simply that outside house cats exist
               | in numbers that are not supportable for a normal wild
               | predator due to the fact that house cats have meals
               | provided by humans to sustain them. So house cat numbers
               | don't reach an equilibrium with their prey the way a wild
               | cat could. Either way I suspect that the impact on bird
               | populations by domestic cats is often overstated.
        
               | dTal wrote:
               | >Maybe the impact is simply that outside house cats exist
               | in numbers that are not supportable for a normal wild
               | predator due to the fact that house cats have meals
               | provided by humans to sustain them. So house cat numbers
               | don't reach an equilibrium with their prey the way a wild
               | cat could.
               | 
               | That's exactly it. The density of house cats is orders of
               | magnitude larger than the density of wildcats would be.
               | 
               | > Either way I suspect that the impact on bird
               | populations by domestic cats is often overstated.
               | 
               | Why?
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | https://abcbirds.org/article/study-documents-dramatic-
               | new-im...
               | 
               | https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Medina-
               | et-al...
               | 
               | https://abcbirds.org/wp-
               | content/uploads/2015/09/Loss_et_al._...
               | 
               | https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Doherty-
               | et-a...
        
               | culi wrote:
               | > We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill
               | 1.3-4.0 billion birds and 6.3-22.3 billion mammals
               | annually. Un-owned cats, as opposed to owned pets, cause
               | the majority of this mortality. Our findings suggest that
               | free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife
               | mortality than previously thought and are likely the
               | single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US
               | birds and mammals.
               | 
               | https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | https://blogs.umass.edu/natsci397a-eross/the-
               | environmental-a...
               | 
               | We've had 3 birds hit our windows in the 12 years I've
               | owned this home. To combat that, I made sure all the
               | windows had blinds. It hasn't happened since.
               | 
               | My one neighbor's cat kills more than 3 birds per month
               | in the warm seasons. I haven't been able to combat that
               | unfortunately.
               | 
               | But I did build a dry stack retaining wall that has
               | allowed the chipmunk population to have a bit of refuge.
               | They are slowly growing in numbers. We had scores of them
               | until the neighbors moved in next door. Within months
               | they dwindled to less than a dozen. My wife and I used to
               | love to sit at our breakfast table and watch them scurry
               | around the yard and patio. Our neighbor's cat ruined that
               | for us.
               | 
               | I shouldn't have to spend $5k+ to prevent cats from
               | killing chipmunks, but I'm always willing to do whatever
               | I can to improve something rather than just complaining
               | about it.
        
             | xkcd-sucks wrote:
             | Probably depends on the individual's tendencies. My cat's
             | kill stats for year to date, not too many birds:
             | Total          106         --------------------
             | Bird           3         Red Squirrel   1         Chipmunk
             | 9         Rabbit         11         Vole           59
             | Deer Mouse     23
             | 
             | My garden and house really appreciate the
             | vole/mouse/chipmunk control
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | Goodness. How big are the rabbits in your area? The ones
               | here are so large that I imagine that A) a cat could not
               | catch them and B) the rabbit would disembowel the cat
               | with its rear feet. I've seen rabbits do impressive
               | things to small dogs and snakes. I wouldn't want one near
               | my cats.
        
               | dageshi wrote:
               | Living on a farm, I've seen some fairly impressive semi
               | feral tom cats. When they're young and they hunt a lot
               | they develop muscle on every inch of their body, once had
               | one who was quite tame, his back muscles felt like a bag
               | of marbles, they were that well developed.
               | 
               | I'd have no doubt he could've taken a rabbit especially
               | given the ambush nature of their hunting.
        
               | mhuffman wrote:
               | My grandfather used to keep a couple of rabbits in the
               | barn to run off the rats! He swore that rabbits naturally
               | hated rats and would fuck them up if they could get near
               | them.
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | Rabbits can be fierce. They aren't as intimidating as
               | wild turkeys or the boars around here, but I wouldn't
               | want to try to handle a wild rabbit.
        
               | gpderetta wrote:
               | I have seen cats catch rabbits as big as themselves.
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | That's impressive. On my mothers farm, the turkeys run
               | the show followed by the geese. But neither one of them
               | will ever bother the rabbits. It's interesting watching
               | the hierarchy.
               | 
               | She has numerous 150lb+ dogs and they all defer to the
               | turkey and geese. Even the donkeys don't go near the
               | turkeys and geese The geese can't really hurt you, but
               | I'd rather fight a 150lb dog than a 60lb turkey.
        
               | dboreham wrote:
               | Smaller cats will catch the baby rabbits, but a larger
               | cat has no trouble catching and eating adult rabbits in
               | my experience. The largest thing I've seen a cat catch
               | was a grouse. Turkeys are too large. Weasel like things
               | seem to be too fierce.
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | They don't want to catch a turkey. We've had turkeys kill
               | medium sized dogs and they've put holes in the side of
               | the feed man's truck with their claws.
        
               | 411111111111111 wrote:
               | How did you produce these numbers?
               | 
               | You sound way too confident in it's validity unless
               | you've put a camera on the cat and check the full
               | recording every day...
        
               | _eht wrote:
               | My educated guess would be that the gato presents them
               | with these offerings.
        
               | user5678 wrote:
               | So these numbers are lower bounds.
        
               | xkcd-sucks wrote:
               | Lower bound but pretty confident in accuracy - Have eyes
               | on all catflap traffic, some accelerometer/position data
               | (a _cat collar_ tracker, not a _cat_ tracker!), and
               | observation thus far supports the conclusion that he
               | stages all kills in his  "abattoir" area unfortunately
               | underneath the couch regardless of their eventual
               | disposition - pretty common behavior
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | t-3 wrote:
               | My cat only very rarely manages to get chipmunks and
               | mice, but he doesn't usually kill them, generally
               | alternating between cuddles and grooming and beating them
               | savagely to make them jump and run. He's scared of birds
               | after being mobbed by robins and crows.
        
               | eitland wrote:
               | The last rabbit we had at home ran around on its own.
               | 
               | I developed a friendship with our horse, but did not seem
               | to be on friendly terms with the neighbors cat. One time
               | I saw them running across the driveway: the cat first,
               | panicking, the rabbit a meter or two behind chasing it.
        
             | hollywood_court wrote:
        
               | philote wrote:
               | I recently got a new kitten and we decided it'll be an
               | indoor cat (though I'm harness training her so she can go
               | out on walks). I've had several cats over the years die
               | because they were allowed outside (one got hit by a car
               | and one I think got locked in my neighbor's
               | crawlspace/basement though we never found her). I
               | personally haven't had many of my outdoor cats bring me
               | birds, but where I live now we have bird feeders and
               | don't want the birds preyed on.
               | 
               | Edit: I forgot about the outdoor cat I had that I left at
               | home when I went off to college. It got run over by my
               | neighbor because it was sleeping under his wheel and he
               | didn't notice.
        
               | not2b wrote:
               | Yes, our cats have always been indoors; our next door
               | neighbor's cats have been outdoors. One of them was
               | killed by a coyote and left on our front lawn for my
               | daughter to find.
        
               | pvaldes wrote:
               | A cat must live the life of a cat, not the life of a
               | doll. And yes, life sometimes is risky, and there is
               | death in life, and there is dirt and half mice. We better
               | learn to deal with it instead to keep running towards an
               | hyperpuritan, hypersensitive society, unable to stand the
               | minimum amount of frustration or to make anybody happy.
               | 
               | To help birds, we plant trees and dense shrubs and wild
               | hedges full of biodiversity and fruits and insects. We
               | build nestboxes. We build ponds and birdbaths. We stop
               | pruning like obsessed. We put seeds in winter. We know
               | that birds and hedgehogs trive in areas full of cats. If
               | they find any minimum refuge, this is unavoidable.
               | 
               | If there are none of that things around, is not cat's
               | fault. Build it. Children need to be exposed to free
               | animals to turn into healthy people.
        
               | spicybright wrote:
               | Why shouldn't the answer be don't own an animal that
               | can't live happily while co-existing with the ecosystem
               | around it? And if that's the case and you want a cat
               | anyways, why shouldn't we require people to build/fund
               | infrastructure to offset the effect it will have?
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | The dead cats don't bother me as much as the dead birds.
               | Introducing just one cat can completely change an entire
               | ecosystem. Outdoor cats are a threat to global
               | biodiversity.
               | 
               | I know it makes you feel better to allow your cats
               | outdoors but please recognize that it affects the
               | ecosystem on a larger scale.
        
               | pvaldes wrote:
               | The danger depends a lot on the area and month. There are
               | more factors involved
               | 
               | Some ecosystems are resilient. Some wipe actively any
               | cat. Some should ban entirely cats while in other places
               | removing cats could in fact harm the birds by the rodent
               | population explosion. It changes also if the bird is
               | migrating or not, if is young or not...
        
               | rufus_foreman wrote:
               | It's my yard. It's not an ecosystem. It's my cat's one
               | job to threaten my yard's biodiversity.
               | 
               | Birds are noisy. At 4:30 in the morning. Anything that
               | wakes me up at 4:30 in the morning is a problem that
               | needs to be dealt with immediately with whatever level of
               | violence is necessary to stop the squawking.
               | 
               | You get all chirpy in my yard, you deal with Mr.
               | Tiddlesworth. Same with the squirrels that get on the
               | roof. Die!
        
               | detaro wrote:
               | I wonder if you'd approve of a neighbor dealing with Mr.
               | Tiddlesworth in a similar fashion if it were to annoy
               | them in their yard.
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | They couldn't reasonably become upset if someone were to
               | kill Mr. Tiddlesworth for venturing into their yard.
               | Their logic would not allow it.
        
               | rufus_foreman wrote:
               | Mr. Tiddlesworth's pronouns are he/him/his.
        
               | pvaldes wrote:
               | Just get better windows
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | Yeah I was scratching my head about that one too. We
               | can't hear much outside our windows.
               | 
               | Triple pane is the way to go.
        
               | gsich wrote:
               | Larger scale? More like local scale. Also sources.
        
               | Gordonjcp wrote:
               | > Outdoor cats are a threat to global biodiversity.
               | 
               | Not a tenth as much as you are.
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | Are there any other fallacies you'd like to share with us
               | this morning?
        
               | Gordonjcp wrote:
               | Are you saying that you don't eat, or use oil in any way,
               | or any sort of technology?
        
               | jelliclesfarm wrote:
               | Harvard biologist E. O. Wilson estimates that 30,000
               | species per year (or three species per hour) are being
               | driven to extinction. Compare this to the natural
               | background rate of one extinction per million species per
               | year, and you can see why scientists refer to it as a
               | crisis unparalleled in human history.[..]
               | 
               | https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/population_a
               | nd_...
        
               | idiotsecant wrote:
               | Your neighborhood didn't get a cat, you did. Your
               | neighbors shouldn't be expected to take responsibility
               | for limiting the damage your cat does.
               | 
               | The solution is not to make the world fit cats, the
               | solution is for you to take personal responsibility for
               | the animal you decide to host at your house. If you can't
               | keep that animal at your house, then don't get an animal.
               | It's simple.
               | 
               | Nobody would suggest if I buy a hyena that eats dogs that
               | people should start putting their dogs in hyena proof
               | armor so as to accommodate the preferences of the hyena
               | owner and the inclinations of the hyena.
        
               | cityofdelusion wrote:
               | I've had a cat hit by a car and a cat lost forever. They
               | were both indoor cats that were completely unprepared for
               | what was outside. They escaped.
        
               | BoxOfRain wrote:
               | Is this an American thing or something? Almost all the
               | cats I've ever known were outdoor cats in the UK.
        
               | nobody9999 wrote:
               | >Is this an American thing or something? Almost all the
               | cats I've ever known were outdoor cats in the UK.
               | 
               | I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd never allow my
               | cats outside.
               | 
               | Not for ecological reasons, but because I live in a flat
               | on the fourth (that'd be the third floor in the UK) floor
               | of an apartment building in NYC.
               | 
               | If my cats got out of my apartment, they'd have to go
               | down three flights of stairs and then wait for someone to
               | open two separate doors in order to get out into the
               | street.
               | 
               | Once on the street, there are many hazards for cats, not
               | least of which are automobiles.
               | 
               | Having been to London, I imagine that there's a similar
               | dynamic there as well.
               | 
               | As such, I'd say that it's more about
               | urban/suburban/rural settings than different countries.
        
               | xkcd-sucks wrote:
               | I mean yeah, it's irresponsible to let people go outside,
               | drive cars, play sports, consume media by personal
               | choice, engage in romantic relationships, climb stairs
               | and ladders, drink alcohol etc. Yet we still generally
               | feel the quality of life improvements outweigh the
               | quantity of life decreases.
               | 
               | Consider also that humans confined to an indoor
               | environment have much more environmental enrichment
               | available in books, television, internet, games etc. The
               | only environmental enrichment available to cats indoors
               | are really terrible simulacra of nature (strings, balls,
               | furniture) and many of these are only available when
               | people are available to play.
        
               | isthrowawaybul wrote:
               | >It is incredibly irresponsible to let cats outdoors.
               | 
               | Istanbul has left the chat.
        
               | lIl-IIIl wrote:
               | I have never heard of this. Why wouldn't you be surprised
               | if your police officer spouse hits you or commits
               | adultery?
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | Police officer's commit domestic violence and adultery at
               | a rate far higher than other non-LEO civilians. Some of
               | us who have experienced it first hand may talk about it
               | in jest to help alleviate the anxiety and other problems
               | it has caused.
               | 
               | My aim wasn't to offend anyone. Well unless you're a cop
               | that commits domestic violence. They should probably be
               | offended.
               | 
               | It was a tactless analogy, but a strong analogy
               | nonetheless.
        
               | lIl-IIIl wrote:
               | There were a few things that bothered me in that
               | statement.
               | 
               | "what did you expect to happen" blames the victim.
               | 
               | "Police officer is as likely to engage in domestic
               | violence as a cat is to kill a bird outside" is not a
               | strong analogy. I think almost all young cats would kill
               | birds outside. It's a far cry form "a far higher rate".
               | 
               | As a rhetorical device, it falls flat because it argues
               | for something obvious by comparing it to something
               | obscure. It would work better the other way - if you were
               | on a thread talking about domestic violence and comparing
               | it to cats killing birds.
               | 
               | Men commit violence at a far higher rate than women. But
               | it's still lower than the "what did you expect"
               | threshold.
        
               | spywaregorilla wrote:
               | A quick search can't find anything to validate the claim
               | of police officers committing adultery more than other
               | roles. Ironically tech and entrepreneurs rank highest
               | among men in most polls, along with trade workers
        
               | kerblang wrote:
               | This was at worst a mildly controversial comment until
               | you got to the point declaring that all police officers
               | are spouse-beating adulterers.
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | It's ridiculous the lengths people go to inject their
               | politics into their every post. Also sometimes cats just
               | get out and run away, not everyone is letting them
               | outside. In fact I'd wager that's almost never the case.
        
               | hollywood_court wrote:
               | You'd wager that people rarely allow their cats outside
               | intentionally?
               | 
               | I imagine you'd lose that bet.
               | 
               | Indoor/outdoor cats have been common everywhere I have
               | lived.
               | 
               | My next door neighbor's cat, Mr. Freckles, almost
               | completely wiped out our chipmunk colony and I still find
               | dead birds he has killed every few weeks.
               | 
               | I live in a small neighborhood of 43 homes and there are
               | 6 cats that I know of that spend the majority of their
               | time outside.
               | 
               | I wish I lived where you live where it was less common.
        
             | njacobs5074 wrote:
             | This behavior always reminds me of book "The World Without
             | Us"[0] in which the author points out that, of all our
             | domesticated animals, cats would definitely survive due to
             | their excellent hunting skills in a world without humans.
             | -- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Without_Us
        
               | formerkrogemp wrote:
               | >cats would definitely survive due to their excellent
               | hunting skills in a world without humans.
               | 
               | I don't know about yours, but my cats would not adjust
               | well.
        
             | UncleOxidant wrote:
             | > absolutely do decimate local bird populations
             | 
             | Which is why it's best to keep them indoors or perhaps have
             | a catio so they can experience the outdoors without
             | impacting the local wildlife. It's also better for the cats
             | as indoor cats tend to live longer.
        
           | purim wrote:
           | Why does people having different opinion upset you? People
           | claim dogs are also unfavourable. I personally do not like
           | cats but the personality effect is more pronounced among cats
           | because they do not express themselves as much as dogs.
           | 
           | In general I do not like pets or children. If you think they
           | are amazing, great! but know others may not share your
           | opinions.
        
             | gnulinux wrote:
             | Well, it's not because they have different opinions. It's
             | because to me it feels like one of the greatest things life
             | can offer. Just like most people would consider intimacy
             | with a partner, having children, finding a satisfying
             | career/hobby as great things life offers to us humans, I
             | tend to think having a bond with an animal (cat or dog I
             | suppose, but they're very different kind of bonds) is
             | another thing life has to offer to us. Of course, I don't
             | mean to imply a human is less valid without the love of an
             | animal (or less valid without the love of a partner, child,
             | job etc) but I still do think that some people _are_
             | missing out on this. This is part that makes me sad. If you
             | truly gave cats a shot and you dislike them, I don 't give
             | a shit how you feel about them.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | Not the person you're replying to, but I don't think I'd
             | characterize myself as being "upset", just... disappointed?
             | Annoyed? Most people's opinions of cats as pets are
             | informed by inaccurate, negative stereotypes, while most
             | people's opinions of dogs (even if they don't have one or
             | rarely interact with one) are positively influenced by the
             | "Man's Best Friend" stereotype.
             | 
             | Opinions are fine, if they're informed by actual
             | experience, or at least secondhand experience by trusted
             | parties. But I think most opinions about cats are not that,
             | and it's unfortunate. They do the entire species a
             | disservice.
        
             | tarentel wrote:
             | It's cool if you don't like cats but I think the op was
             | pointing out that some people think cats are just vengeful
             | little maniacs. Which some of them are but they have a very
             | wide range of personalities and classifying them all as
             | such is a bit unfair.
             | 
             | Also, cats express themselves just as much as dogs if not
             | more. They just do it much differently. I can tell what my
             | cat wants just by the way she meows.
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | totally agree, with one thought : if you've seen people with
           | rescued pumas (who also purr) they're _exactly_ like
           | "domestic" cats...just much bigger.
        
           | honkycat wrote:
           | You can make the same argument about "love" with cats as with
           | dogs. They're both projections of a human emotion onto a much
           | less intelligent and altruistic creature.
           | 
           | think it's an absurd toxic masculinity "dogs for men cats for
           | women" thing.
        
           | InCityDreams wrote:
           | Amy's Baking Company.
        
         | purim wrote:
         | I don't think its particularly healthy to be purring, you are
         | most likely causing damage to your vocal chords. The way cats
         | do it are completely different and it causes their whole body
         | to vibrate. You are better off humming to your cats.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | erybodyknows wrote:
           | Parent likely meant a vocal trill, similar to "rolling your
           | r's".
        
         | bcrosby95 wrote:
         | We had inside/outside cats growing up, and they would follow us
         | to school and make it back home on their own. When we were
         | playing in the street or in our backyard, if we hurt ourselves
         | they would go inside to "tell" our parents.
         | 
         | One of my cats would wait by the window when I was at school,
         | and when I stayed up too late at night come to "complain" to me
         | to get me to go to sleep.
        
         | miriam_catira wrote:
         | Every time our son cries, our cat runs to him - from the time
         | he was a baby to now. We can't decide if it's a maternal
         | instinct to "make sure the baby is ok" or if she just needs to
         | know about everything going on in the house. I like to think
         | it's the former.
         | 
         | Plus, this cat wears her emotions openly - much more so than
         | other cats we've had. When she's happy / excited, her fur puffs
         | up. It's the same fur as when they're angry / scared - the tail
         | poofs and the fur along the spine stands up. We were confused
         | at first when she was a kitten, since it's so different from
         | expected. But we learned that the puffed fur combined with
         | intense purring and even rolling seems to be her way of
         | expressing joy & pleasure. It's also absolutely adorable.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | I purr to cats as well. I recall visiting some friends who have
         | cats a few years ago and purring to one of them - the cat did a
         | double take and had what seemed to be an expression of surprise
         | on his face - like "a purring human, how can this be?!".
         | Everyone observing noticed his response.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | Speaking of cats purring on broken legs, i have an anecdote:
       | 
       | The missus was down in bed with a freshly out of surgery broken
       | leg. It still hurt so we kept the leg packed in cold packs.
       | 
       | Every time she laid in bed with the cold packs, our feline owner
       | jumped on the bed and laid down near the leg, purring. We naively
       | thought she was helping the leg heal.
       | 
       | Until we finally realized she liked the cold packs! She was
       | licking them for some reason, i think until she stopped feeling
       | her tongue. It was funny to watch her tentatively move said
       | tongue in every direction like she was trying to figure out if
       | she still has it.
       | 
       | Later we experimented with ice cubes, ice cream (needs to be
       | plain vanilla, no other tastes on it) and even snow. Our cat just
       | likes something cold now and then!
        
       | bdowling wrote:
       | > Purring Is a Love Language No Human Can Speak
       | 
       | You might say that the human version of the language is not
       | "purring complete".
        
       | lysergia wrote:
       | Certified ailurophile[0] here. I've found the gentle hum of
       | purring very soothing, almost like having a hot chocolate on a
       | cold day, or chicken soup. It's very comforting, and I'm lead to
       | believe the specific frequency of the hum is in line with nature
       | and The Universe itself. It has the same frequency of the Omm
       | mantra which is apparently the frequency our bodies emit when
       | we're in full health and homeostasis or in a meditative trance.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ailurophile
        
         | 6stringmerc wrote:
         | There is nothing that has made me at peace more than my little
         | feral kitten that is now 17 and Senior but healthy and no pain
         | sits on my chest cavity when I'm laying down, tucks her paws
         | under her chest, then purrs away squinting.
         | 
         | I can feel it resonate in my body and it feels like a special
         | gift not everybody gets...the love of a feral feline.
        
         | stevenwoo wrote:
         | Purring is one of the minor technological/genetic innovations
         | in Margaret Atwood's pre/post apocalypse Maddaddam trilogy,
         | though not involving cats as we think of them.
        
         | IYasha wrote:
         | They say cat purr has healing properties.
        
       | enviclash wrote:
       | Pleasure is pleasure, and love is love. Ask my cat!
        
       | ncmncm wrote:
       | Cats purr when they want something. Often what they want is more
       | of what they are already getting, so they continue purring while
       | they get it. But, crucially, they purr before.
       | 
       | Of course they only purr for what they want when somebody else
       | can supply it.
        
       | NHQ wrote:
       | Counterpoint, humans are not loving on the right level to
       | discover what is a purr.
        
       | praptak wrote:
       | I went with our cat for a USG. I held her while the vet examined
       | her. Suddenly I felt some vibrations in her throat (didn't hear
       | purring) and alerted the vet to it. He said that it's probably a
       | quiet purr, cats often do that when getting examined and it's
       | probably to self-soothe.
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | I would argue that nursing human babies make a purring sound as
       | they drink milk from their mother's breast. That sound evokes a
       | sense of attachment and bonding.
       | 
       | Many times the qualities that we find endearing in pets (for
       | example big eyes) are those that remind us of human babies.
       | 
       | My guess would be that humans (maybe subconsciously) preferred
       | cats that could make purring noises and thus being able to purr
       | conferred a selective advantage to cats.
        
         | katbyte wrote:
         | Bigger wild cats like cougars and lynx that have not been
         | domesticated pure just the same.
        
         | rowanG077 wrote:
         | How do you explain the big cats doing it. There hardly is a
         | selection pressure like that in those.
        
         | devinmcafee wrote:
         | This sounds reasonable but mountain lions and many other types
         | of non-domesticated cats still purr
         | (https://parks.sccgov.org/plan-your-visit/park-programs-
         | event...). You might be right that domesticated cats have
         | evolved behavioral traits to purr more than their
         | undomesticated counterparts, but I doubt the trait itself is
         | linked to domestication since it still exists in the wild.
        
         | JadeNB wrote:
         | > My guess would be that humans (maybe subconsciously)
         | preferred cats that could make purring noises and thus being
         | able to purr conferred a selective advantage to cats.
         | 
         | Of course it's all speculative, but I wouldn't even expect it
         | to be subconscious; if you show me an adorable but silent
         | animal, and another cute animal that can express its affection
         | by making some sort of pleasant sound, I'm going to be more
         | drawn to the one that makes a sound.
        
           | kranke155 wrote:
           | Purring is an adaptive trait.
           | 
           | Unnatural selection.
        
             | garou wrote:
             | Do you have any studies that prove this statement?
             | 
             | I can raise the hypothesis here that, the cat being a small
             | animal, it is also prey and the development of low
             | frequency communication between mother and kittens can be
             | quite beneficial in hostile environments. Of course, I
             | can't claim this to be true.
        
               | kranke155 wrote:
               | No I was just joking.
        
               | katbyte wrote:
               | Wild non house cats like cougars and lynx that have not
               | been domesticated pure just the same.
        
               | kranke155 wrote:
               | I was making a joke
        
       | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
       | _Nor can experts say, exactly, what purring means. Cats purr when
       | they're happy - but also sometimes when they're anxious or
       | afraid, when they're in labor, even when they're about to die._
       | 
       | My cats purr when they're emoting. They stress-purr when hungry
       | (or vet trips, etc) and regular-purr when fed. I think it
       | indicates an amount of emotion rather than type.
        
         | jerrysievert wrote:
         | my cat is a very mellow lap cat, and has had the fortune of
         | being socialized quite a bit (she has a space backpack that she
         | can travel in, and was a frequent guest at a local pub while
         | they were open). thus, on her last vet trip, the doctor was
         | shocked that she was purring, in a happy non-stressed way.
         | 
         | of course, that meant for a stop at another pub that she's
         | welcome at on the way home, for some more special on-the-bar
         | time.
        
       | snickerbockers wrote:
       | I swear my dog purrs sometimes when I'm rubbing his neck. Its
       | very subtle but he makes some sort of low grunting noise when
       | he's relaxed and enjoying his massage.
        
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