[HN Gopher] Here come the bendable TVs and monitors that no one ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Here come the bendable TVs and monitors that no one asked for
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 135 points
       Date   : 2022-09-06 10:56 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | XorNot wrote:
       | The problem with this whole concept is I just plain don't trust
       | the robustness.
       | 
       | I remember the demo version of a Samsung foldable phone with a
       | row of dead pixels right where you'd expect on the crease line.
        
       | ssizn wrote:
        
       | jesuscript wrote:
       | At point is the image distorted when you bend it? I always had an
       | issue with that with curved monitors. Is there such a thing as
       | bending calibration? Am I looking at an accurate image if I bend
       | it?
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | I think they are mostly used for things like games, where this
         | is less of a big deal.
        
         | whatshisface wrote:
         | Because the screen is flat while the celestial sphere is round,
         | you are _only_ looking at an accurate image if you bend it. :-)
         | From the perspective of your eye or a pinhole camera, the sides
         | of your screen look shorter than the center because they are
         | farther away, which does not happen if it is bent.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | Only if you're way too close.
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | Usually, curved monitors are very long.
        
           | boltzmann-brain wrote:
           | for 3d images, this highly depends on how the 3d engine
           | renders things - curved monitors can be less accurate than
           | flat displays due to simply using the wrong 3d projection.
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | That is a good point, I was only thinking about images
             | taken with a camera.
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | I'm curious if there are any videogames that render specifically
       | for curved monitors? (And then if the level of curve is
       | adjustable, like it's adjustable for these?)
       | 
       | Because projecting an image onto a plane vs. onto a cylinder
       | becomes radically different the further you get from the center
       | of your field of view -- flat photo mode vs panorama mode.
       | 
       | I'm vaguely aware that the commonly wider aspect ratio of curved
       | monitors often isn't supported by games, because in multiplayer
       | mode the greater field of view gives an unfair advantage... but
       | maybe there's some subset of games that design for this?
        
         | caylus wrote:
         | I'm not sure how the math works for 3D games, but I would think
         | that for 2D games, a curved monitor actually _reduces_
         | distortion.
         | 
         | In a flat monitor centered in front of your head, the distance
         | between your eyes and different pixels on the screen varies
         | depending on how close they are to the edge, thus distorting
         | the sizes of the rendered sprites. Curving the edges reduces
         | this effect (depending of course on the exact curvature and
         | distance to the monitor).
         | 
         | I guess the key question for 3D is whether the rendering engine
         | already attempts to compensate for this effect. It seems
         | difficult for it to do so, since monitor sizes and distances
         | vary so much, but I suppose that's what settings like field-of-
         | view are for.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | Many modern video slots have dramatically curved vertical
         | screens. That form factor would be great for a workstation.
        
         | coffee_beqn wrote:
         | I believe some driving sims support extra wide field of view so
         | that you see the sides of the car interior. I've seen that with
         | a multi monitor "curved" set up but I'm not sure if a true
         | curved monitor is curved enough for that illusion. Mine is
         | pretty subtle, maybe 15-20 degrees total
        
           | boltzmann-brain wrote:
           | it's not just the aspect ratio - the perspective is different
           | on curved monitors, because the surface is pointing in a
           | different direction at every point. you have to simulate this
           | with an effect related to the fish-eye lens.
        
             | WorldMaker wrote:
             | That's been my experience for the few games I've played
             | with that had field of view settings with some semblance
             | for curved monitors: things towards the far edges balloon
             | larger like with a fish-eye lens, which turns out about
             | what you need to best activate peripheral vision too.
        
               | gigaflop wrote:
               | When I game on my 3440x1440 curved monitor, I usually
               | nudge my FOV 10 to 20 degrees higher. This gives me a
               | very generous 'flat' zone in the middle for when (and
               | where) I need precision, and the edges of the screen have
               | a small bit of 'zoom' to help watch my corners.
               | 
               | Sometimes I try to game that a bit when looking at
               | something distant: I'll wiggle the object's position
               | between the edge and center of the camera, to get
               | slightly different perspectives on it.
        
         | TrevorJ wrote:
         | the 3D to 2D projections happening in realtime engines don't
         | 'curve' anything the way a real lens does. A fisheye lens in
         | real life will turn some straight lines into curves, you'd
         | never see that in a video game (unless it's a post processing
         | effect that fakes it). So I suspect that there aren't really
         | any games that have the ability to do a 1:1 projection that
         | perfectly matches the curve of a monitor, although there are
         | probably some fast approximations.
        
       | spicybright wrote:
       | I normally shy away from jokes on this website, but I can't not
       | compare this to Micheal Scott's plasma TV bit.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHP2Ep73Fk4
        
       | knorker wrote:
       | When I bought my TV it was a curved smart TV. I wanted neither
       | curved nor smart, but it was forced upon me by the requirements
       | OLED and 4K.
       | 
       | It also has support for 3D. Don't care about that either.
        
         | jdboyd wrote:
         | It is increasing hard to get away from smart, but since OLED
         | and 4k launched together, I think there have always been flat
         | options available.
         | 
         | You used to be able to get away from the smart "features" by
         | going with a commercial display, but that is increasingly less
         | true. Hopefully the smarts on smart commercial displays don't
         | involve spying on you are showing ads though.
        
       | eschneider wrote:
       | I'd actually pay good money for this. As my vision gets worse and
       | worse, I've had to go to smaller monitors so that I could see the
       | whole thing in focus at once. If I could get a large, curved
       | monitor that I could adjust so every portion was an equal
       | distance from my eyes, that'd be a big win.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | Polymer thick film FLEXIBLE circuits.
        
       | throwaway1777 wrote:
       | The more likely direction is in the future AR/VR will be good
       | enough no one will need physical screens.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Pointless indeed
       | 
       | The only scenario I can think of where I'd probably like flat
       | more is a screen in portrait orientation
        
       | orangepurple wrote:
       | Can't wait to roll up my TV
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | erik_landerholm wrote:
       | I bought the 65 inch version of this TV a few years ago.
       | https://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-OLED77W9PUA-signature-oled-4k-t...
       | 
       | They aren't making them anymore, manufacturing issues and issues
       | with the proprietary cable, but I must admit it's like a magic
       | portal and I love it for no other reason than it's flatter than a
       | #2 pencil. Lol Favorite thing I've ever bought.
       | 
       | It's very bendy. You can roll it up loosely. I tried it once, but
       | freaked me out too much.
        
       | lobstrosity420 wrote:
       | What I'm really waiting for is foldable monitors that stow
       | easily, something like the Zenbook 17 Fold, sans computer.
       | 
       | The utility of a nonmobile monitor that bends slightly is pretty
       | questionable in my opinion.
        
         | rjbwork wrote:
         | Agree. I'm about to be on the road for a bit over a month and
         | am not looking forward to working just on a laptop screen.
        
         | jotm wrote:
         | I couldn't find any 17-21" portable monitors last time I wanted
         | one. They seem like a no-brainer to me, but apparently there is
         | no market for them? It's either 13 inch and overpriced or full
         | fledged desktop monitor...
        
         | bick_nyers wrote:
         | A portable ultra wide that I can roll up and put in my carry-on
         | sounds useful
        
       | necovek wrote:
       | If the price difference between making it bendable instead of
       | always curved is neglible, you might as well cater to both flat-
       | screen and curved-screen buyers with one product.
       | 
       | If flat OLED screens are significantly cheaper, then bendable
       | screens will evolve into always curved models down the line.
        
         | boltzmann-brain wrote:
         | the problem is that bendable OLEDs will ultimately never be
         | quite the shape you want. especially if you want it flat -
         | there will always be a small bit that bulges out, and it won't
         | be a uniform curve, it'll actually be a crease or a localized
         | bulge; and it'll be that tiny bit annoying to where people
         | won't want to have them, especially with clear rather than
         | matte displays, because of the inevitable annoying reflections
         | which move as your head moves.
         | 
         | bendability is clearly a great thing for advertisements, and I
         | see a lot of those things showing up in buses and trains
         | (curved banners at the top, like on the London tube),
         | tradeshows (curved artsy-fartsy installations), car dashboards,
         | etc. but before any of that can happen, oled longevity in
         | presence of static images needs to be fixed... which might
         | never happen.
        
           | fshbbdssbbgdd wrote:
           | I've been using OLED displays for years on my phone and TV
           | and never run into any issues with burn-in (not made any
           | effort to prevent it either).
        
           | samatman wrote:
           | All of what you're saying only applies to bending a screen in
           | half, right?
           | 
           | I'm not seeing why a monitor like we're discussing would
           | automatically have bulges or creases.
        
         | zepearl wrote:
         | > _If the price difference between making it bendable instead
         | of always curved is neglible, you might as well cater to both
         | flat-screen and curved-screen buyers with one product._
         | 
         | I agree.
         | 
         | In my case I bought years ago a curved LG OLED display even if
         | I was quite against it because it was 1000.- CHF cheaper than
         | its identical but flat twin (2500.-) => I relocated last
         | October and the only place I could put the TV in the new flat
         | was in front of the fireplace, which is in the livingroom's
         | corner cutting the 2 walls by 45 degrees => the curved TV fits
         | better than a flat TV to show the image towards the viewer
         | sitting on the couch in the square room.
         | 
         | Therefore, if the price diff is not too high, then why not -
         | maybe you won't need that feature or not immediately, but you
         | never know; it does give you more "options" and I'm always in
         | favour of that, as well when coding, managing a project, etc -
         | having more options decreases risk, makes you more able to
         | adapt, etc :)
        
         | madaxe_again wrote:
         | They will, ultimately, be significantly cheaper, for one reason
         | - freight. TVs ship in big boxes, full of styrofoam - you're
         | limited on how many you can fit in a standard container, and
         | they're expensive and fragile to ship the last leg to the
         | consumer. They take up warehouse space, and are often a two-man
         | lift for larger models.
         | 
         | Being able to ship a TV rolled up in a tube will be
         | revolutionary.
         | 
         | See also: mattresses.
        
           | maxander wrote:
           | Is this true? Flat rectangles pack more efficiently than
           | tubes. With mattresses, afaik, the big difference was vacuum-
           | packing reducing overall volume, not shape.
        
             | algorias wrote:
             | Seems true, because about 80% of the volume of a tv or
             | monitor box is padding. Padding scales with surface area,
             | not volume, so it could be reduced by a ton.
        
           | brianwawok wrote:
           | The total cost to ship a TV is like $20. Cost to add curves
           | is like $500. Not even close to mattering.
        
             | madaxe_again wrote:
             | The total cost to ship it where? From Korea to the end user
             | in the US? Or from New Jersey to New York? Much more of the
             | cost of goods is transport than you might realise, and you
             | pay per TEU, not per kg - so a container mostly filled with
             | air is an expensive proposition.
             | 
             | You also assume that the technical cost will be constant -
             | it rarely is, and I see these products as a tooling step
             | towards making thin film displays that can be packed with
             | vastly improved density.
        
             | tyrfing wrote:
             | That's about right for a 40" TV for domestic ground
             | shipping, maybe a bit low. It's more than that to ship it
             | from China to California, and larger sizes will hit
             | breakpoints that significantly increase shipping cost.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | Not only flat vs curved buyers but it can add flexibility in
         | usage too. Maybe I want to put the monitor on a table and use
         | it as a TV for a while (maybe a friend's kids are over and I
         | want to put a TV in the corner). This way the same device can
         | switch between a single-person curved display or a wider-
         | viewing-angle flat display in seconds.
         | 
         | Sure, it is a niche use case, but why not?
        
           | WorldMaker wrote:
           | Owning a curved ultrawide as my main PC monitor, I've
           | definitely hit cases where it might be nice to briefly
           | flatten it. I keep my main PC in my bedroom and don't have a
           | TV in the bedroom. You can watch TV/videos that are centered
           | in the display pretty well from the bed, but if you wanted to
           | watch two things side by side or if there was a market for
           | videos in "2K" ultrawide aspect ratios it would be tougher to
           | watch things.
           | 
           | I've often also thought about the durability of the monitor
           | if I need to move it to another home. Right now the only
           | packing material I think is safe to use due to the curve is
           | the packing material it came in that was molded to its curve.
           | Movers are used to flat screens these days, but I can't
           | imagine they'd have an easy time with this curved ultrawide.
        
             | gigaflop wrote:
             | I'm in a similar spot as you. I've also taken to holding on
             | to the original packaging of this thing as a bit of an
             | albatross, but so long as there's the _slightest_ chance of
             | needing to move this thing, I need the original styrofoam
             | and cardboard. I 've already gotten use out of it a few
             | times.
        
       | durnygbur wrote:
       | There was this time span few years ago when all TVs were "3D"...
       | so much electronic waste was produced...
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | There was a time when the 3D TV people infested HN worse than
         | the Bitcoin people later did. 100 times a day, somebody was
         | called a cynic for saying that people weren't going to wear
         | special glasses to watch TV. Since half the new high-end TVs
         | were 3D, we also got to constantly hear that _the market_ had
         | already chosen 3D.
         | 
         | Smart TVs were the boon everyone was looking for; they could
         | reorganize and raise the profit margins of the TV manufacturing
         | industry but didn't even have to add any expensive new
         | technology, just crappy apps and ads.
        
       | rubicon33 wrote:
       | Bendable? No thanks.
       | 
       | Where is the kindle style monitor (no backlight)?
       | 
       | Staring at an LED panel all day for decades isn't great. I'd love
       | to see improvements to non-backlit monitor tech but it seems the
       | demand for that is low, and somehow lower than the demand for a
       | bendable monitor.
        
         | nebula8804 wrote:
         | Here is a video comparing two that are on the market.
         | 
         | [1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fycfiWPypkY
        
         | ianai wrote:
         | Maybe bendable screens are a valley we have to go through to
         | get the transparent, nearly expendable phones from the Expanse?
        
         | vvilliamperez wrote:
         | From what I know, e-ink tech is and has been very feasible, but
         | is on hold since it's under patent. The company that holds the
         | patent is notoriously slow to reach any licensing deals in a
         | timely fashion to bring a product to market. Not to mention
         | their exorbitant licensing fees. The end product turns out to
         | be to expensive to market.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_Ink
        
         | NonNefarious wrote:
         | I agree with you, but the refresh rate on E-paper is so
         | hideous. And the panels are expensive as hell.
        
         | dominotw wrote:
         | Has e-ink been shown to be better for eyes. I was under the
         | impression that most of the damage comes from focusing your
         | eyes on screen all day ( vs backlight )
        
         | rcarr wrote:
         | The way forward isn't monitors and tvs at all, but 4k ultra
         | short throw laser projectors like Samsung Premiere and Optoma
         | P2. They're like something out of Star Wars, don't even need
         | the curtains closed to use them. They're starting to come down
         | in price as well to around the PS1500-PS2000 mark, won't be
         | long before they break the PS1000 mark. Can't wait to get one
         | of these for my home office in a few months.
        
           | AuryGlenz wrote:
           | I've had projectors ever since I was 14 years old but there's
           | no getting around the fact that the darkest their black level
           | can get is however dark the screen is.
           | 
           | Dark screens help but until we can project on something
           | that's essentially black they won't be great for daytime
           | viewing.
        
             | jaywalk wrote:
             | Looking at the marketing pages for the two projectors
             | mentioned is hilarious. They show images projected onto
             | brightly-lit white walls with areas that are significantly
             | darker than the wall, which is of course impossible.
             | 
             | Unless/until some material comes along that is tuned
             | somehow to only reflect light that comes from the
             | projector, they'll have to remain limited to dark rooms.
        
               | rcarr wrote:
               | Have a look at this, looks pretty visible to me:
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/nu2OZq8A-AI
        
               | jaywalk wrote:
               | I wasn't talking about visibility. I was referring to the
               | marketing pictures showing the projectors essentially
               | "projecting darkness" which is impossible. No part of a
               | projected image can possibly be darker than the surface
               | it's being projected onto.
        
               | pwinnski wrote:
               | That video demonstrates the problem exactly. The "before"
               | shot shows a clip from _Lightyear_ which takes place in
               | the black of space, and the screen is filled with high-
               | contrast bright colors on a completely-black background.
               | The  "after" shot is of a bright sunny day where a car
               | (low contrast despite the bright red color, to my eyes)
               | drives through a desert. You could hardly ask for more
               | directly opposite videos. For a real comparison, I'd have
               | liked to see the same _Lightyear_ clip on both setups.
        
               | unstatusthequo wrote:
               | Ready for a rabbit hole: https://projectorscreen.com
        
               | jaywalk wrote:
               | I guess the tech is further along than I thought!
        
           | jnsie wrote:
           | How long before we can replace monitors with virtual monitors
           | via AR? I feel like we take for granted that we have TVs
           | taking up huge chunks of our living rooms and monitors of our
           | offices. Obviously resolution is a (huge) issue. Another, for
           | TV at least, is the communal aspect (synchronized virtual
           | TVs, anyone?) but it seems like the future is on without
           | physical monitors/TVs. I wonder how distant a future that
           | is...
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | > How long before we can replace monitors with virtual
             | monitors via AR?
             | 
             | Hopefully never. People who don't wear glasses don't need
             | something on their face to watch TV, people who do need
             | glasses don't need to worry about AR googles meaning they
             | have to choose between seeing a screen clearly or
             | everything else and nobody has to worry about the AR goggle
             | company watching and logging everything you see and
             | plastering everything in your line of sight with ads.
             | 
             | I don't think physical screens are going anywhere anytime
             | soon. I wouldn't mind having every wall in my home capable
             | of being a screen though. Screen-as-wallpaper would be very
             | nice since you could create smaller virtual screens on any
             | wall wherever you needed one and it would mean you could
             | change your wallpaper/color on a whim.
        
             | rcarr wrote:
             | There's the nreal air glasses that you can buy today for
             | PS400 and some Lenovo glasses that were posted on hn
             | recently that are coming next year. The future is already
             | here:
             | 
             | https://youtu.be/bj8hMtWeTUg
        
           | xxs wrote:
           | You will have to paint your walls in (vanta) black.
        
             | detritus wrote:
             | I know you're joking, but that would just result in a
             | pretty-much black screen, no matter how much white was
             | thrown at it :)
        
               | madetoshareqs wrote:
               | On the other hand, the contrast ratio would be really
               | good. :)
        
               | jstanley wrote:
               | How would it?
        
               | hnuser123456 wrote:
               | One photon in bright areas is infinite contrast ratio to
               | zero photons in black areas
        
           | unstatusthequo wrote:
           | Yes these are great. I have one from VAVA, and got a special
           | screen to display it on that also helps prevent other light
           | from affecting the lasers from the UST lens. It's great for
           | TV. Sure, black levels aren't perfect, but I'll give that up
           | for a 10 foot screen. Not sure I'd use it for my office. I
           | feel like an array of monitors or a really nice 8k would be
           | better.
        
           | NonNefarious wrote:
           | My "TV" is a projector, but I don't consider it practical for
           | computer work.
           | 
           | When 100" micro-LED panels come out, the projector is going
           | away for good.
        
             | smileysteve wrote:
             | Or the opposite, when glasses can have built in 1440p
             | "augmented reality" oleds, each viewer can have as big of a
             | display, with black pixels, as they want.
        
               | NonNefarious wrote:
               | If that's your idea of a fun viewing party, go for it.
               | I'll stick with the big-screen experience.
        
               | mrguyorama wrote:
               | My VR headset is 1400p per eye and GARBAGE for looking at
               | text on a virtual screen. Any display tech that expects
               | you to focus at a virtual plane for long periods of time
               | will really hurt your eyes, and be basically unusable for
               | many people. If you struggle in nice 3D movies to feel
               | like your eyes are comfortable, you will have that same
               | feeling in a VR or AR glasses situation.
               | 
               | Basically, any system that requires your eyes to focus on
               | a physical screen that isn't the same distance as virtual
               | objects will piss off your brain, because it knows
               | something is going on, and hates being tricked without
               | consent. Some people I think can ignore this effect to
               | some extent, others cannot. It also strains your eyes
               | more than focusing on an actual 2D screen so increases
               | eye fatigue compared.
        
           | egypturnash wrote:
           | Have you seen these in action? I am skeptical of all "don't
           | need curtains" claims for projectors unless they are based on
           | actual experience, every shitty $100 pocket projector says
           | you "don't need curtains" which is barely even technically
           | true in most cases.
        
             | rcarr wrote:
             | I was sceptical at first but then I saw some photos and
             | YouTube videos of people using them. Have a look at this,
             | it's not an ultra short throw one but it is a 4k laser one.
             | The guy is using it outside in broad daylight to watch
             | Netflix: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nebula-Polaris-Pro-
             | Projector-Black-...
        
               | mburee wrote:
               | It claims 2400 lumens - I have a couple of flashlights in
               | excess of 6000 and yeah, the light beam is visible in
               | daylight but I can't see any way you'd project something
               | with decent contrast even with that.
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | You mean the promotional videos?
               | 
               | You don't get to make black over a white surface in
               | daylight.
        
               | rcarr wrote:
               | No I mean the user posted video and photo reviews on
               | Amazon and also the odd YouTuber.
               | 
               | And yes, it is not going to be as good as a TV outside in
               | broad daylight. But they are almost definitely good
               | enough to use inside with the curtains open. And if the
               | light isn't directly in your eyes like a monitor, do you
               | even have to code in dark mode anymore?
        
               | tolmasky wrote:
               | That says it has a brightness of 2400 ISO Lumens, which
               | roughly translates to about 600 nits according to this
               | site[1], (although my back of the napkin math of 3.426
               | nits to lumens would give a worse 408 nit rating, but I
               | think this page probably did a better job, so we'll go
               | with that). This seems pretty low compared to even OLED
               | TVs, which are of course worse than LCD TVs. I may be
               | comparing peak brightness to average brightness though,
               | hard to get a clear idea here. But, if my understanding
               | is correct, with a project you'll _also_ miss out on true
               | blacks, right?
               | 
               | 1. https://cybershack.com.au/cybershack/nebula-cosmos-
               | laser-4k-...
        
         | user3939382 wrote:
         | I resisted ebook readers since the day they came out, out of an
         | irrational sense of betraying "real" books which I love. I
         | recently got one (Kobo Libra 2) and mannn these eink displays
         | are SO nice to look at compared to my LED display. Literally
         | night and day.
        
           | boltzmann-brain wrote:
           | as someone who's spent ages reading books before ebooks were
           | a thing and before LCD technology became popular, I'm quite
           | the opposite - I can't be happy enough about LCD technolgy
           | being around, especially if compared to an old yellowed book
           | that's been printed off the same plates for 20 years and
           | which you're reading in an only moderately well lit room.
           | although LED technology again helps here because all that
           | books-before-LCD experience comes from the days of
           | incandescent light bulbs and nascent "energy saving"
           | fluorescent compacts with edison screw.
        
           | marssaxman wrote:
           | I had a similar experience. I love real books and hate
           | locked-down corporate ecosystems. But... at my sweetie's
           | suggestion, I bought a Kobo Libra for a trip where I had no
           | space for books, and I have to admit that it is _nice_. It
           | weighs nothing, pages turn effortlessly, it remembers my
           | place, the battery lasts forever, and the screen is really
           | sharp. You can resize the text, and the device just magically
           | reworks the layout, as if it came from the press that way.
           | Beyond that, it syncs with my library account - I don 't even
           | use the Kobo store!
           | 
           | I've actually been using it to read with my ten-year-old. We
           | take turns, alternating chapters. "Snuggling up on the couch
           | with a child and an e-reader" does not have the same romantic
           | ring, but the stories are just as engaging and I think the
           | e-reader with its push-button page-flip is actually better
           | for smaller, less-dextrous hands.
        
             | pjerem wrote:
             | > the battery lasts forever
             | 
             | That is true. I recharge my E-ink reader multiple times ...
             | per year.
        
           | chrisweekly wrote:
           | Yeah. I've been an avid / voracious reader for over 40 years,
           | and will always love "real" books, but I've developed a
           | strong preference for reading on my Kindle Oasis, for several
           | reasons:                 - portability         - dictionary &
           | wikipedia lookup         - highlights -> readwise*         -
           | continuity (phone, kindle, audiobook via WhisperSync), I can
           | listen while driving, continue reading when home         -
           | preview the next book in a series and/or buy it on the spot
           | and keep reading
           | 
           | * Readwise in turn syncs to my Obsidian vault where I can do
           | useful things with them like progressive summarization...
           | 
           | In contrast, paper books are heavy and fragile, and I've
           | always resisted annotating / highlighting physicap books bc
           | its permament and feels like defacement / vandalism.
           | 
           | TLDR, I love my personal library, my house is full of
           | bookshelves, but my reading preferences have evolved, and I
           | get absurdly high value from my Oasis.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | I think the reading UI _per se_ of paper books is still
             | better overall, but god damn, the space-savings advantage
             | of ereaders is hard to ignore.
        
           | NeuNeurosis wrote:
           | Thanks for sharing. Do you have one of those that you shared?
           | If you do what is your experience like?
        
         | tsol wrote:
         | You know I've never considered this, but that's probably one of
         | the only pain points with monitors now. If they can find some
         | way to not make it feel like I'm been staring at light bulb
         | during the night time I would really be interested in paying
         | premium prices. Screens definitely mess with my circadian
         | rhythm. Otherwise at this point all I'm interested in is a
         | basic monitor
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | Just adding a reasonable control on the brightness is already
           | enough to solve this. Make the monitor's bottom some not too
           | bright white, and it's solved for outside usage too.
           | 
           | Liquid crystal displays can actually adapt to almost any
           | circumstance. It's the manufacturer's fault that they force
           | it into "store-bright" and won't let you change.
        
           | NonNefarious wrote:
           | The long-overdue move away from inverse color schemes (dark
           | text on a white background) has certainly helped.
        
           | whatshisface wrote:
           | If you combine an accurate ambient light sensor with a
           | regular old LCD you can do that pretty well, because you
           | don't need to vary the brightness across the screen to
           | simulate diffuse reflections from an uneven light source to
           | get the effect you want. Also check out those programs that
           | redshift your monitor. Finally, try turning down your
           | monitor's brightness.
        
           | Night_Thastus wrote:
           | It's not a cure-all, but third-party tools like f.lux can
           | change the colors of the monitor at early morning/late night
           | to drastically reduce the problem.
           | 
           | I used to have incredibly sore eyes from late-night sessions,
           | and now that problem is completely gone. Been using it for
           | years and will never go back.
           | 
           | It does take a little while to get used to at first, but it
           | quickly becomes natural.
           | 
           | Windows also has a built-in tool to do the same thing, but
           | it's not as robust/customizable iirc.
        
           | nix0n wrote:
           | Blue-light blocking glasses have helped me with this.
        
         | stetrain wrote:
         | https://www.sunvisiondisplay.com/reflective-lcd-monitor
        
         | Kerrick wrote:
         | Right here!
         | https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1683182-REG/boox_opc0...
         | 
         | $1800 for a 25" monochrome E-ink monitor. The resolution is
         | 3200 x 1800, but remember to consider that resolution in the
         | context of E-ink rather than LCD.
        
         | yusefnapora wrote:
         | I'm hoping that we see more reflective LCD displays in the
         | future. There's a 32 inch 1080p panel by Sun Vision that seems
         | pretty remarkable, but I'm holding out hope for more pixel
         | density, etc.
         | 
         | If you haven't seen it, there's a very well done review at
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQms-iHX9RQ
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | It it could bend backwards, I kind of miss my Trinitron CRTs...
        
         | Theodores wrote:
         | That is easy, even with the two horizontal mask lines.
         | 
         | I want a non-Trinitron AMOLED faux CRT with a good centimetre
         | of glass at the front and a simulated hi pitch whine, with
         | heating element on the top for the comfort requirements of a
         | cat.
         | 
         | The two way curve, now that would be a real challenge. Market
         | sales for said TV? A few movies where they need to portray the
         | 21st century, that is about it.
        
         | sbf501 wrote:
         | NEC 6FG MultiSync FTW.
        
       | HereIGoAgain wrote:
       | Perfect title.
        
         | wildrhythms wrote:
         | Refreshing to see "tech press" not mindlessly gawking at some
         | hyped up new tech for a change.
        
           | HereIGoAgain wrote:
           | Agreed!
        
       | throwawaymanbot wrote:
        
       | sleepybrett wrote:
       | Until I can roll or fold it up to a size no bigger than a 13"
       | laptop and cart it away in my backpack I could care less.
        
         | RobRivera wrote:
         | couldn't care less is the phrasing that invokes an expression
         | of maximum indifference
        
           | throwthere wrote:
           | > couldn't care less is the phrasing that invokes an
           | expression of maximum indifference
           | 
           | Merriam-Webster asserts both phrasings are equivalent since
           | at least the 1800s.
           | 
           | https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/could-
           | couldnt-...
        
       | persedes wrote:
       | If this inspire more affordable products like this[0] that would
       | let me store the TV away easily, I'd be very interested.
       | 
       | 0 - https://www.lg.com/global/lg-signature/rollable-oled-tv-r
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | Interesting, although before buying it would be advisable to
         | check how many rolls/unrolls it is guaranteed for.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | Not shown on that page: the price tag. MSRP is $100,000.
        
         | denimnerd42 wrote:
         | This would solve a lot of issues with interior design
         | aesthetics. A lot of rooms just don't have a good spot for a
         | TV. They end up above a fire place, or in front of a window. or
         | in an awkward viewing spot. They make lift systems that put the
         | TV down into a cabinet but you still have the full size TV to
         | store away.
        
           | ngold wrote:
           | Eventually it will just be wallpaper.
        
             | wffurr wrote:
             | Doesn't seem like it addresses the problem of awkward wall
             | spaces at all, vs a stow-away screen of some type.
        
         | royletron wrote:
         | this was my first thought. Bendable technology doesn't just
         | mean curved viewing, it has some really cool pratical uses like
         | this roll-y up thing. You could also imagine one from the
         | ceiling like a garage door. No more wall mounted TVs plz
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | jayknight wrote:
           | Like a retractable screen+projector, but no need for a
           | projector. Sound nice.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | I was really surprised that all the cellphone manufacturers
         | went with flip phones, rather than roll-out phones like a
         | miniaturized version of this.
        
           | AuryGlenz wrote:
           | I'd honestly love a slap bracelet phone that I could wear on
           | my wrist.
        
             | AndrewKemendo wrote:
             | This seems doable but you're going to lose like half of the
             | viewable screen area just to view angle geometry.
             | 
             | Apple watch seems to be the best solution here most likely
        
               | matt_attack wrote:
               | Rolling your wrist to scroll and just accepting the poor
               | visibility on part on the screen could still be pretty
               | good.
        
               | danielvaughn wrote:
               | Right but that's assuming you'd be consuming content
               | while the device is rolled up. I like the idea simply for
               | portability - I don't have a large phone primarily
               | because it's awkward to stick it in my pockets.
        
             | wyre wrote:
             | Not the same thing but the Apple Watch has an LTE model
             | that can allow you to leave our phone at home.
        
           | macrolime wrote:
           | I think they're still struggling with durability. I think
           | it's likely we'll see rollable phone screens of sorts within
           | a few years though. A rollable screen could just be an
           | extension screen that could be pulled out when needing more
           | screenspace
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | That's basically an extension of how current bendable
             | screens work, right? Just with the whole thing bending
             | instead of just the middle.
        
           | NegativeLatency wrote:
           | Less bending overall results in less failures?
           | 
           | Also it would be hard to talk on a floppy phone
        
             | alias_neo wrote:
             | Make it so it has no speaker or microphone, and then you
             | don't have that problem and can sell more wireless earbuds.
             | 
             | Tangentially, you also solve a security/privacy concern.
             | 
             | Heck, make the band a wireless display and solar/kinetic
             | charger and you can mind the guts to a wirelessly connected
             | device that never leaves your pocket.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | > Tangentially, you also solve a security/privacy
               | concern.
               | 
               | You also introduce/force a security/privacy concern.
               | Bluetooth can get your device remotely hacked and it's
               | routinely used to track you, your location, and nearby
               | devices. It's one reason I always use phones with
               | headphone jacks, I never have a need to enable bluetooth.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | There's "more bending" in some sense because the whole
             | thing has to bend, but it avoids the seam problem.
        
         | badtension wrote:
         | I love the idea, you could put the TV in front of a large
         | window and just roll it up in the evening without having
         | daylight obstructed.
         | 
         | Not to mention moving between apartments, it would be so much
         | easier.
        
       | robertlagrant wrote:
       | Someone tell Ars Technica no-one asked for TVs in the first
       | place.
        
         | ghastmaster wrote:
         | This is close to my thoughts based on the title alone. It
         | reminded me of Dvorak's " _There is no evidence that people
         | want to use these things._ " line.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | Of course they did.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | Shh. We're supposed to pretend that no one wanted tvs, just
           | like we pretend that what people wanted were faster horses,
           | rather than to be relieved of the effort of caring for a
           | horse. Get it? The users are dumb.
        
         | spandrew wrote:
         | The idea of someone's likeness being broadcast on some kind of
         | screen has been in sci-fi for a long time. More like facetime -
         | but still. The idea is not new. And people wanted it.
        
       | archi42 wrote:
       | I'm still looking forward to the UI revolution due to touch
       | screens on computers becoming mainstream. Too bad the big
       | PixelSense screens never took off in the mass market.
       | 
       | But bendable screens... meh. I wanted a flat screen, only got a
       | curved screen. And still never felt the urge to unbend it.
        
         | NonNefarious wrote:
         | That's not going to happen, because touchscreens on computers
         | suck. Waving your arms around in front of you all day is a
         | shitty way to work, and takes up way more space than a
         | mousepad.
         | 
         | Not to mention: Why would you want your hands and arms blocking
         | your view of the stuff you're trying to manipulate on-screen?
         | 
         | Entire companies have already come and gone because the
         | "Minority Report" UI has no legitimate use case.
        
           | archi42 wrote:
           | I think that's a misconception. For context: I have a strong
           | preference for keyboard use, mouse is only an optional
           | accessory that's sometimes useful.
           | 
           | I already use touch on my XPS 13 and it's just another nice
           | accessory, which I often prefer over a mouse (especially for
           | mobile use). If I move from keyboard to mouse to click a
           | button, I can also just touch it. Or lazily scroll a page.
           | But it's a mistake to assume it should replace all other
           | input methods instead of augmenting them; forcing that on a
           | user sucks, yes.
           | 
           | Edit: Oh, and I just played "Root" on a 43" touch screen
           | sitting on a table. Works well, except that I need to
           | integrate it into the table.
        
           | Teever wrote:
           | and yet millions of people place their orderd at McDonalds or
           | self-check out their groceries with this every day.
        
             | NonNefarious wrote:
             | What fantasyland do you live in?
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | If your work's complexity is equivalent to placing a fast-
             | food order, it might be appropriate, but even then, you
             | will likely get tired if you had to do this all day.
        
           | rcarr wrote:
           | > Entire companies have already come and gone because the
           | "Minority Report" UI has no legitimate use case.
           | 
           | Guess you're talking about Leap Motion? I reckon they might
           | have been 7 years too early to market. I could see this kind
           | of thing picking up traction when AR/VR really becomes
           | mainstream, maybe not as the main input source but I could
           | see it for less commonly used actions.
        
             | NonNefarious wrote:
             | Yeah, I think that was it. I respect that they tried, but I
             | can't even see these things being used for air traffic
             | control. 3-D? For sure. But big transparent panels?
        
         | schwartzworld wrote:
         | You want to use your TV as a touch screen? We used to have
         | physical buttons on the TV that we used to change channels and
         | control volume. Getting up to interact with the TV was a giant
         | pain in the ass.
        
           | cesarb wrote:
           | > We used to have physical buttons on the TV that we used to
           | change channels and control volume.
           | 
           | And I'm annoyed at the current trend of removing these
           | buttons. It's not rare for the remote control batteries to be
           | empty, or the remote control to be broken (with some buttons
           | not responding to presses), or even the remote control to be
           | lost somewhere in the house (to be found only days later).
           | Having a fallback way to control the TV, at least
           | power/channel/volume/input and preferentially also full
           | access to the configuration menus (using the
           | channel/volume/etc buttons as arrows and confirm/cancel), is
           | essential. Ideally with capacitive buttons, which in my
           | experience do not get broken as easily as normal physical
           | buttons.
        
           | boltzmann-brain wrote:
           | ahahah i remember having 4 buttons on a drawer that pulled
           | out to display 4 tiny plastic potentiometers that you had to
           | turn if you wanted to check out any of the other channels
           | once there were any - and yeah, you're right. god no
           | 
           | but i guess it's nice for laptops and stuff
        
           | archi42 wrote:
           | I never said I wanted to do _that_ ;) I was just really into
           | the NUI /TUI hype back in the early 2010s. (I still like
           | proper buttons, especially in my car)
           | 
           | I wouldn't hang a screen like that on a wall, but put it
           | in/on a table.
           | 
           | Just came back from playing the "Root" tutorial on a 43"
           | touchscreen, btw. Quite nice, looking forward to see how it
           | fares with when playing with friends or using it as a virtual
           | tabletop for pen&paper RPGs. Still need to integrate it into
           | a table, and I think it needs a tilt mechanic for better
           | ergonomics when playing alone.
        
             | ForHackernews wrote:
             | > but put it in/on a table.
             | 
             | Microsoft tried that. It didn't go _great_
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY
        
               | archi42 wrote:
               | Don't have sound right now, sorry. But that thing cost
               | about 10kUS$ (and even more early on), that's nearly
               | 14kUS$ inflation corrected. Might be the reason people
               | didn't buy them for home use ;)
        
       | account-5 wrote:
       | Nope. They ruined TVs with rubbish "smart" functions. Now they
       | seem to be coming after monitors. I couldn't think of anything
       | I'd want less than a smart TV, until this.
        
       | neoncontrails wrote:
       | I'd love see it draped uncannily over a table edge, displaying
       | one of those Salvador Dali paintings of melting clocks.
        
       | kaycebasques wrote:
       | > Here come the bendable TVs and monitors that no one asked for
       | 
       | Great title. Tells you exactly what you're gonna get. Throws in
       | some humor.
        
         | jdboyd wrote:
         | The title made me think of the iPhone, which also nobody asked
         | for.
         | 
         | That said, I am not at all convinced about bendable TVs as
         | being introduced right now.
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | Meh, I'm asking for color e-ink display suitable for vim and
       | terminal usage. Doesn't even have to be a lot of colors.
        
         | UnpossibleJim wrote:
         | Low powered color e-ink and portable is the way to go (readers,
         | code stations). I think the hype (if there is even any) over
         | rollable displays is vapor.
        
         | nottorp wrote:
         | If we're dreaming, how about an e-ink with black default for
         | coding / terminals? Real, deep black.
         | 
         | 16 colours will do for syntax highlighting.
         | 
         | But it has to refresh much faster than current e-ink. Can't
         | scroll through code at the speed a Kindle refreshes.
        
           | rcarr wrote:
           | Do you need deep black/dark mode if the display isn't
           | projecting the light into your eyes? I feel like I could be
           | fine going back to light mode on eInk or a projector. I can't
           | say that when I'm using my kindle that I miss there not being
           | a dark mode because the reason I'm using dark mode on the
           | other devices in the first place is no longer an issue with
           | the kindle.
        
             | xwdv wrote:
             | It's hard for me to take work seriously on a lighter
             | screen. Black just looks way more expensive.
        
         | Shorel wrote:
         | 100 dpi right now. Hopefully 300 dpi in a few years.
         | 
         | I also want this tech to improve, and for the same reasons.
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | "In what room do such large, bendable screens belong? If the
       | answer is not immediately clear, perhaps they don't belong in
       | many people's homes at all."
       | 
       | Love this title. Maybe people will start to catch on. You cannot
       | have what you ask for, even if it is possible to make it,^1 but
       | you can have more gadgets that surveil your life without alerting
       | you to the surveillance. This means these products are always
       | useful, not as much to you, the consumer, as to the sellers and
       | their business partners who will continue to collect data from
       | you long after purchase.
       | 
       | Like the internet-connected "smart speaker" with an always-on
       | microphone, these "belong" everywhere. No one asked for this, but
       | it is "the latest technology", so just get it.
       | 
       | Whether it improves your life is irrelevant. As with the bendable
       | "smart" TVs, the answer to that question is assumed to be "yes".
       | What's relevant is that it will improve surveillance and data
       | collection for someone else.
       | 
       | The price will keep dropping and the surveillance and ads will
       | keep increasing. The "tech" industry calls free websites and
       | mobile apps "products". The price is ostensibly zero. No need to
       | ask for these "products". Surveillance only requires that you pay
       | your internet service bill. Otherwise, it's free.
       | 
       | 1. This is a great forum for reading about what people really
       | want, but cannot have. Some will state what they want. Others
       | will state they already have it and/or praise what they call
       | "progress" and criticise the past. However none of these folks
       | asked for what they got and that's why I like this title.
        
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