[HN Gopher] Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free wit...
___________________________________________________________________
Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPhone 14 Pro
for 2 years
Author : faebi
Score : 78 points
Date : 2022-09-07 19:02 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| therealmarv wrote:
| After 2 years: I hope they offer a "pay later" option (does not
| mean it has to be cheap). You never know when you are in
| emergency situations and you maybe need this kind of new
| technology.
|
| Imagine people could be saved in theory (and die) but not in
| practice because they did not paid their emergency subscription.
|
| And even worse: Imagine you could pay later but you don't use
| that option because you want to save money oO
|
| A lot of ethical problems in my opinion.
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| Apple: Certainly, you can pay another two years, by buying an
| iPhone 16 Pro.
| [deleted]
| x32n23nr wrote:
| Would this be something Starlink could offer?
| codebook wrote:
| starlink recently announced to support T-Mobile to send msg or
| call. So should be better than this.
| ykl wrote:
| I genuinely think this feature is going to save lives. I've had
| friends before who have been in the exact target situation (got
| lost after nightfall in a remote location with no way to
| communicate) and only were found and rescued through absolute
| sheer dumb luck.
| eddyg wrote:
| Related discussion (on Globalstar SEC filing, with some
| interesting insight into the state of the Globalstar
| constellation):
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32754963
| hughes wrote:
| I expect that within 2 years the Starlink cellular coverage will
| be good enough to replace this. Will be interesting to see how
| the take rate holds up in that environment after the free period
| expired.
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| I'd love to learn more about the RF side of this. In their
| marketing demo they showed that in order to avoid needing a
| traditional antenna, the user will be guided to point the phone
| at a satellite during the few minutes required for transmission.
|
| I'd love to know what the antenna arrangement is. I'd have
| guessed something like a log periodic laid out on the inside of
| the rear case.
| shadowpho wrote:
| Wow this is a game changer for many users. Plus it will generate
| cash once the 2 years run out!
| number6 wrote:
| Is it? And why stop after 2 years? If you didn't buy a new
| IPhone after two years you are not worth saving on corporates
| bill, while the loyal consumers who gets a new phone regularly
| is valued by the Corp?
| tpmx wrote:
| Yeah this is just despicable pricing/positioning.
|
| A truly Apple way to launch this would to be to include a
| lifetime global 911 ability after you buy a capable phone.
|
| I mean - how to they justify having the technical ability on
| a device, but not allowing it to be used in an emergency?
|
| Imagine the headlines for when a family with kids dies in the
| desert with a 2.5 year old iPhone 14. Have they really
| thought this through? It doesn't feel very Apple to me.
| goleary wrote:
| a bit of strong reaction given you have no idea whether or
| not it includes lifetime global 911 after the 2 years...
| simonh wrote:
| A free emergency service is despicable because it's not
| forever. Really?
| tpmx wrote:
| Yes. It's long (I think since the early days in the 80s)
| been a tenet in mobile phone industry that emergency
| calls always need to be free. You route them best to your
| _technical_ ability - anything else is unethical.
|
| With any cellular phone it's possible to dial the local
| emergency number.
|
| Doesn't matter if your current operator has coverage, the
| phone will find the network that has the best coverage.
| There's still explicit validation of this capability for
| new phone devices.
|
| You don't even need a SIM card.
|
| But now Apple has ended the practice.
| jshzglr wrote:
| Would it be more ethical if they could but never did
| release this feature? Because that is essentially what
| you are advocating for, considering no public company
| could foot the bill in perpetuity.
|
| The way this probably plays out is by the time the 2
| years is up or shortly thereafter this will be subsidized
| by the gov.
|
| Apple is leaving quite a bit of money on the table here,
| while simultaneously spending quite a bit. Wipe the
| entitlement from your eyes and recognize this for what it
| is.
| tpmx wrote:
| > considering no public company could foot the bill in
| perpetuity.
|
| iPhone margins do allow for it.
|
| > Wipe the entitlement from your eyes and recognize this
| for what it is.
|
| Sir, let me _very_ calmly ask you to please behave better
| in discussions here.
| jshzglr wrote:
| So you can call certain behavior despicable but I can't
| call your behavior entitled. That sounds pretty entitled.
| [deleted]
| simonh wrote:
| It was a mandatory requirement from the governments that
| issued the spectrum licenses, that's all.
| happyopossum wrote:
| That's never been the case for satellite service - ever.
| tpmx wrote:
| Well, this is the first time a mainstream phone gets
| satellite service.
| kube-system wrote:
| That is true and this may set a new precedent, but
| connectivity requirements in the past were always placed
| on carriers before, and never phone manufacturers.
| happyopossum wrote:
| Despicable? This is a huge investment for Apple (look at
| Globalstar's SEC filing for details), it's free for 2
| years, and we don't even know what (if anything) it will
| cost after that. But you're confident it's "despicable".
|
| That smacks of some serious entitlement man...
| malfist wrote:
| I hate apple because of vendor lock in and nonsense with
| their walled garden. But seriously, GP is deluded.
|
| Satellite emergency services has never been free, even if
| you buy an garmin device for this, they don't operate if
| you're not paying your monthly bill.
| jliptzin wrote:
| How large is the demand for something like this? Are tons of
| people really going that far out of range of cell signals?
| snoopy_telex wrote:
| For the first 10 months in 2020, the Adirondacks had 245
| search and rescue events[1] and it's a fairly small park
| nationally. This could save a huge amount of park service
| resources if they could be given the GPS cords to go directly
| to rather then spend hours searching. Expand that nation
| wide, it's a huge public win, and a great safety benefit to
| the individuals to be able to get help as soon as possible if
| something happens.
|
| I was unable to find nation wide stats on search and rescue
| events.
|
| [1] https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/record-number-
| of-...
| [deleted]
| kube-system wrote:
| US national parks alone had 297 million visitors last year,
| and it's not hard to find areas without coverage in many of
| them. Many state parks also have tens of millions of visitors
| each year.
|
| I have never _not_ lost cell coverage when going on a hike in
| the mountains, and I only go on casual day hikes.
| nicoburns wrote:
| A lot of serious hikers use dedicated devices for this kind
| of functionality. It's expensive-ish, and the chance of
| needing it is small. But if you do need it then it could be
| an actual life-or-death situation, so it's worth it if you're
| out in the middle of nowhere regularly.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _How large is the demand for something like this? Are tons of
| people really going that far out of range of cell signals?_
|
| When I lived in the desert, the local newspaper regularly
| published stories about tourists getting lost/stuck/stranded
| and then dying.
|
| Going by the newspaper accounts, I'd estimate at least a
| dozen people died in the desert each year, and that was just
| in my area.
| bombcar wrote:
| The demand is enough that the govn't could _pay Apple the
| whole cost of this program_ and save money on search and
| rescue just because "head to the location of the phone" is
| a lot easier than "carefully comb this entire mountain
| range".
|
| And that's not even counting the lives saved.
| malfist wrote:
| Honestly, yes. I'm from Kentucky, and if I go back home,
| there's very little cell coverage. Too mountainous, too few
| people. You can usually get signal if you climb the biggest
| hill, or go into town, but if you've injured yourself and
| need to call 911, those aren't ideal requirements.
|
| I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of midwest areas
| that have a similar problem.
| guyzero wrote:
| This raises BOM costs and has significant operating costs. How
| many users are likely to continue to pay for this service once
| the two years are up?
|
| It's a great feature but it's far from a guaranteed money
| maker. This could just as likely disappear from future iPhone
| models.
|
| edit: also competing dedicated devices also include the cost of
| SAR insurance in their monthly fees, which are significant:
| https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/837461/pn/010-06000-SU
|
| It starts at $15 a month but any serious user is paying more
| like $35-65 a month.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| I live in a small city in what is rural America. There are a
| lot of places that I travel that I don't get cell service in.
| This could literally be a life-saver for me.
|
| While I don't know how large this group is, skiers, hikers,
| boaters, campers, off-roaders would all likely get use out of
| this functionality.
| guyzero wrote:
| Most people in the groups you mention probably already own
| a dedicated emergency locator device. AAPL may very well
| take a lot of their business, but maybe not. An inReach is
| going to survive a much bigger fall than an iPhone.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Who are AAPL?
| goleary wrote:
| Apple
| [deleted]
| Jtsummers wrote:
| It's Apple's stock symbol. People sometimes refer to
| companies by their stock symbols (on this site and
| others), though usually more in a financial discussion
| context.
| [deleted]
| happyopossum wrote:
| > Most people in the groups you mention probably already
| own a dedicated emergency locator device
|
| Hahahahahahaha! Not a chance. Maybe the over landing
| crowd, and hardcore hikers, but most casual enjoyers of
| the outdoors definitely do NOT have a Spot or InReach.
| Next time you're on a ski hill, ask around - you'll be
| shocked how few people have them.
| acchow wrote:
| iPhone has shown that people don't want dedicated
| devices. iPhone has replaced: watch, compass, digital
| camera, calculator, ebook reader, portable DVD player,
| flashlight, Garmin GPS, etc. etc. etc.
| goleary wrote:
| debatable...lots of people with iphones still use watches
| and ereaders.
|
| and for a life saving device like this i know a subset of
| people will not want it a part of their phone.
|
| ...but this will definitely take a LOT of business from
| garmin because i believe that subset to be pretty small.
| guyzero wrote:
| Sure. Garmin is still $5B in sales annually. Which is
| peanuts next to the iPhone, so you wonder why they even
| bother going after it. AirPods are a bigger business than
| that.
| alberth wrote:
| What's odd is that in the US at least, carriers must allow any
| phone (even if it no longer has an active/paid plan) to dial 911
| for emergency.
|
| I wonder if Apple expects the government to institute similar
| requirements soon for satellite (if that's possible) and this
| won't cost anything.
| gpt5 wrote:
| This is a good insight. As Smartphones satellite connectivity
| becomes more widespread, it's definitely expected that
| government will regulate it similar to cellular connectivity
| and require a free access to emergency services.
|
| In the meanwhile, Apple is using it as a differentiated
| feature.
| spicybright wrote:
| It's even better because if there's one thing Apple is good
| at, it's getting people to copy them.
|
| Mandatory 911 sat service on phones that support will save a
| lot of lives!!
| [deleted]
| walrus01 wrote:
| Unlike something 3gpp (LTE) based, each existing low earth
| orbit satellite network is made from mutually incompatible
| proprietary tech. It's a very different thing than just having
| a random GSM band cellular phone with no SIM card in it.
| imchillyb wrote:
| Hey Apple...
|
| how about, instead of bullshit gimmicks, you just make the
| fuckin' phones cheaper? Yeah?
| spicybright wrote:
| That's not their market though, nor does it have to be. It's
| not like they're the only phone maker on the market.
| jshzglr wrote:
| iPhone SE, Check it out. Also I have no idea how you can
| consider this a gimmick. It's a free service than can and will
| save lives. There are plenty of things to critique apple for,
| this is not one of them.
| tristanb wrote:
| Im upgrading precisely for this feature.
| ChemSpider wrote:
| How much would it cost if I buy a non-Apple device with (just)
| this feature? Is it even available? Or would I need a full-blown
| satellite phone?
| xeromal wrote:
| I'd highly recommend the garmin inreach mini. I do a bit of
| hiking and traveling in remote places and it's a good peace of
| mind. It's dedicated to saving your life, the battery can last
| a lot longer than a cell phone, and it has texting if you need
| to reach out in a non-emergency.
|
| It costs about 50$ or so to register for the year and you just
| pay for a month when you need it. Well worth the secuirty. It
| also has a dedicated SOS button under a cap that you can press
| during an emergency. It will send your location to an
| international monitoring center that will dispatch someone
| local to your location for rescue. You can opt in for insurance
| that I believe covers an air lift.
|
| It also can double as a location tracker or rudimentary GPS if
| you need directions to civilization or lake.
| bombcar wrote:
| Note that you can decide NOT to pay the "service fee" and
| they'll often still work, you'll just be hit with some pretty
| hefty fees for rescue, etc.
|
| You can also get a older ELT-style 121.5 MHz but I wouldn't
| really recommend it. Might be nice as a last-ditch.
| groffee wrote:
| I almost want to get stranded somewhere to try it out!
| xeromal wrote:
| I used it in remote Colorado while elk hunting to give my
| girlfriend updates on my safety and it worked perfectly.
| virgulino wrote:
| You are looking for a PLB, a Personal Locator Beacon:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_...
|
| https://oceansignal.com/products/plb1/
|
| You buy it, you never pay anything else, it works all over the
| planet, in extreme conditions, you never need to charge its
| battery (good for 7+ years), and most importantly, it
| communicates with an exclusive satellite constellation
| dedicated to search and rescue, operated by national
| governments. Your emergency call is handled directly by local
| government agencies, the military in many parts of the world,
| who have a duty to respond to the emergency - in accordance
| with international treaties.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Cospas-Sarsat_Pr...
| abange wrote:
| If you're only looking for search and rescue, you can get a
| personal locator beacon for around $300 with no subscription
| fees. they last around 7 years before you'll want a new one in
| case of battery failure. They operate on the same NOAA systems
| that ships use to send SOS signals.
|
| I wear one a lot since I live alone in the woods without cell
| or internet service for several months out of the year.
| gigatexal wrote:
| Seems to be iPhone only. I want to know how much it is after 2
| years. Will it be part of Apple One?
| bombcar wrote:
| I suspect their plan is to introduce satellite calling by the
| time 2 years is up, but we'll see if the phone has the
| hardware for that already, or just the bare minimum for
| emergency texting.
| ChemSpider wrote:
| Well, I found that satellite phone plans start around
| $50/month - so it should be less than that.
| hoppyhoppy2 wrote:
| https://www.findmespot.com/ is a popular brand of satellite
| emergency beacons I know of (I've never used one, though). You
| don't need a full satellite phone
| ChemSpider wrote:
| $11.95/MO - cool. I learned something new ;-)
| bydo wrote:
| Garmin makes dedicated devices for this. They start at $350.[0]
| Plans start at $15/month.[1]
|
| [0]: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/c/outdoor-
| recreation/satellite-...
|
| [1]: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/837461
| Jtsummers wrote:
| I've also seen them discounted as low as $250 at REI. I plan
| to purchase one before my next cross country drive, a lot of
| places without cellular reception and many of those are
| sufficiently isolated I wouldn't want to have to wait for
| assistance to happen by.
| wrcwill wrote:
| With garmin gps phones you can text any number, not just
| emergency services. Did anyone catch if this would be
| possible with the new iphone's emergency satellite plan?
| Jtsummers wrote:
| It is not, at least not in what they announced today. It's
| just for emergency services at this point.
|
| EDIT: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213426
|
| Covers many of the particulars.
| wrcwill wrote:
| yeah, i had hope with the "open Messages" prompt on the
| satellite finder view, but then they didn't mention it
| unfortunately
| [deleted]
| whalesalad wrote:
| Meanwhile in order to get remote unlock on my RAM truck (via
| phone) it's like $900 for 5 years. That was one thing I liked
| about Ford, their tech stuff is (currently) free forever.
| cheeze wrote:
| Are you surprised that a car made by FCA is a pile?
| Daniel_sk wrote:
| US and Canada only.
| alphabettsy wrote:
| At launch.
| atyppo wrote:
| This idea is totally from left field, but perhaps Apple hopes to
| show how successful this program is with search and rescue
| operations to receive government subsidy? I can't imagine a
| company as image-conscious as Apple being okay with the optics of
| a headline describing a hiker's death after not paying for
| Emergency SOS.
| guyzero wrote:
| Note that in the US SAR services are not always free and if you
| have an inReach or similar device you probably also need
| supplementary SAR insurance. It's cheap, but you still need it.
| NewMountain wrote:
| Do you have such insurance? Any company you've had good
| experiences with? I had a close call or two hiking in the
| Cascades and wasn't aware this was a thing so I'd appreciate
| any tips.
| protoc wrote:
| nicoburns wrote:
| I'm betting:
|
| 1. This feature is relatively expensive for Apple. Satellite
| communication isn't free, and Apple don't have their own
| infrastructure for this.
|
| 2. They've signed a 2 year contract with whichever provider
| they're using.
|
| 3. They want to see if this feature is even popular before
| committing to supporting it for longer at all.
| ribosometronome wrote:
| I imagine this has to be a loss leader/marketing feature,
| where the hope is very few will use it but those who do will
| result in "iPhone saves 12 year old Boy Scout lost in the
| woods!"
| [deleted]
| JustSomeNobody wrote:
| I got close with my guess:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32638093
| Jtsummers wrote:
| NB: Not _just_ the Pro, it 's also available for the iPhone 14,
| also for free for the first two years.
| OvidStavrica wrote:
| "Globalstar said it is allocating 85% of its current and future
| network capacity to support the services and has agreed to
| prioritize the services on its network."
|
| https://www.satellitetoday.com/telecom/2022/09/07/apple-to-d...
| codebook wrote:
| I cannot find anywhere the subscription plan price after 2 years.
| Kind of disappointing to this.
|
| As a garmin inReach user, I hope this supports location report to
| closed friends like how Garmin did. But it's not. It is only for
| emergency.
| sagarkamat wrote:
| No it does support Location Sharing with friends via Find My
| evan_ wrote:
| It may not be decided yet. I bet they're waiting to see how
| much use it gets before they set a price.
| g_p wrote:
| > I hope this supports location report to closed friends like
| how Garmin did.
|
| I believe they showed location reporting through FindMy to
| friends, so not only for emergency scenarios.
| TechBro8615 wrote:
| I don't know why this would even be a subscription. I'm not
| hiking into the wilderness on a regular basis. I'd be happy to
| pay $20 to activate the feature for 30 days ahead of any
| adventuring I have planned.
| g_p wrote:
| By only offering you it as a longer-term subscription, they
| can likely capture that recurring revenue from more people as
| a "just to be safe" type offering, perhaps off the back of
| something existing like another level of iCloud+.
|
| They'll then not cancel it, and they've successfully raised
| their annual/monthly recurring revenue for a fair % of their
| users.
| kube-system wrote:
| That's how inreach works now. Their base plan is $15/mo or
| $143/year
| mrep wrote:
| You can get some without a subscription but they are not as
| fancy as they just broadcast your location in an emergency.
| I've got these 2:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07V6CWS26/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b.
| ..
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C6RCRIW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b.
| ..
| kube-system wrote:
| Those devices do not communicate via satellite, so it's
| really a different thing.
| mrep wrote:
| Yes they do. These are 406 MHz Emergency Distress Signal
| devices: "Distress alerts transmitted from ELTs, EPIRBs,
| SSAS, and PLBs are received and processed by the
| International Cospas-Sarsat Programme, the international
| satellite system for search and rescue (SAR). These
| beacons transmit a 406 MHz distress signal every 50
| seconds, varying over a span of 2.5 seconds to avoid
| multiple beacons always transmitting at the same time."
| [0]
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-
| indicating_...
| almog wrote:
| Not only that a PLB let you send a distress signal to low
| orbit network of satellite, it sends its 406MHz signal to
| three types of networks: low earth orbit (LEO) ,
| geosynchronous equatorial orbit (GEO) and medium earth
| orbit (MEO), as well as 121.5MHz signal which is
| monitored by private aircrafts and can help to home SAR
| responders.
|
| Garmin InReach on the other hand uses Iridum (GEO only as
| far as I know) which is used to report to IERCC (a
| private emergency response coordinator).
|
| The reason you might want LEO and MEO are:
|
| 1. While LEO unlike GEO cover the poles as well due to
| their North-South orbit, they have 60-90 min orbit
| period, which means more latency, where as GEO covers 70%
| of earth at all time.
|
| 2. even if there multiple overlapping GEO around you
| which shorten the orbit period and hence the max latency,
| you might have limited view of the sky (especially if you
| happen to be in a North-South canyon) in which case it's
| good to have an increased chance of delivering that
| distress signal.
|
| GEO satellite strength, as far as I know is in their
| ability to receive signal even in severe weather.
| 8ytecoder wrote:
| It does.
|
| "Let friends know how remote you go. If you're on an adventure
| without cell service, you can now use Find My to share your
| location via satellite so friends and family know where you
| are."
| kemayo wrote:
| It looks like the costs to Apple are:
|
| 1. Whatever fees the satellite network charges them.
|
| 2. The cost to maintain the call centers they're routing your
| contact with the nearby emergency services through. (They say
| they'll put you in direct text contact if the emergency
| department supports it, but otherwise they'll be
| intermediaries.)
|
| This suggests to me that how much this costs in an ongoing way
| is going to be _heavily_ dependent on how much it 's used, such
| that locking themselves in to a pricing structure before they
| have any idea how much use it'll see is a bad idea for them.
|
| > I hope this supports location report to closed friends like
| how Garmin did
|
| They mentioned in the presentation that you can make a non-
| emergency use of this system to ping your location to their
| Find My network. So it's at least a way to keep your Apple-
| ecosystem friends updated on where you are when you're out of
| cell range.
| tristanb wrote:
| Find my friends is available over the satellite. (says on
| apple.com) I will be using it to replace my inreach.
| simonh wrote:
| Cringey called it, kind of, although he thought it would be for
| all iPhones and for more than just emergency calls. Typical for
| him to overcook something, and for Apple to come in with a
| stripped down but high value service.
| dewey wrote:
| I'm not sure who "Cringey" is but that has been rumored for a
| while already by both Gurman and Ming-chi Kuo.
|
| https://daringfireball.net/linked/2021/09/14/iphone-13-satel...
| mintone wrote:
| Cringe _l_ y https://www.cringely.com/
| simonh wrote:
| Argh. Typed it on my phone.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| https://www.cringely.com/2022/06/03/apples-space-
| ambitions-a... - The particularly _I, Cringely_ article.
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