[HN Gopher] A few months ago, a complete stranger gave me $10k (...
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       A few months ago, a complete stranger gave me $10k (2021)
        
       Author : mooreds
       Score  : 101 points
       Date   : 2022-09-07 18:25 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (sarahdrinkwater.medium.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (sarahdrinkwater.medium.com)
        
       | socialismisok wrote:
       | I love to see mutual aid! These microgrants are a perfect example
       | of building community together. Finding people whose care and
       | passion improves the lives around them and enabling them to do
       | so.
       | 
       | We have so many people looking to put in the work to make things
       | better, but are just lacking the small amount of funding to make
       | it happen.
       | 
       | There's a huge body of theory about mutual aid out there, but
       | it's always nice to see it done in practice.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | Seems a little sketchy. It would be a great advance fee scam to
       | tell people that you are getting a $10K anonymous grant but you
       | need to pay up some money first to receive it.
        
       | jononomo wrote:
       | I'm honestly disappointed that this person just gave the money
       | away and tried to be a do-gooder instead of doing something fun.
        
         | jononomo wrote:
         | Just blow it all on learning to surf in Costa Rica or
         | something. Life doesn't have to be a chore.
        
         | lessthanseventy wrote:
         | Doing selfless things can be fun.
        
       | unwind wrote:
       | E17 is a postcode area [1] in East London, this was not very
       | clear to me upon first reading.
       | 
       | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_postcode_area
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | In that vein, TED is "American-Canadian media organization"
         | that does conferences, as it's never explained in the blogpost
         | either.
        
           | lantry wrote:
           | the article also failed to explain what money is!
        
             | onion2k wrote:
             | Dev on a UK salary here. What _is_ money?
        
               | knorker wrote:
               | What is the UK?
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | hamiltonians wrote:
       | I wonder if this can apply to basic income?
        
         | reillyse wrote:
         | Do you know how much money the government allocates? I think
         | there is no evidence for the thesis and massive amounts of
         | evidence against it. The concept of a failed state is one where
         | the government has failed leaving the population to allocate
         | their money as they see fit. Generally they don't work out too
         | well.
         | 
         | I'm not saying basic income doesn't work, I'm just saying this
         | isn't the reason it might work.
        
           | notfish wrote:
           | I do think planned economies generally fail though -
           | capitalism (meaning the process of letting individual agents
           | decide on resource allocation) is a very powerful tool for
           | optimizing something, and trying to centralize that decision
           | making requires way more processing power. There's just a
           | huge amount of parallelizability here that you miss out on by
           | having the government try to do allocation.
           | 
           | Don't take this as me saying unregulated capitalism works
           | even a little bit, you definitely need someone in charge of
           | operating that tool or you end up in our current mess.
        
             | pjscott wrote:
             | The core problem here is not processing power but
             | _information:_ often a central planner just doesn 't know
             | what people want or need, and can't realistically get that
             | knowledge out of their brains without using something like
             | a price system. To make this intuitive, consider a farmer
             | with unpleasantly acidic soil. In a centrally planned
             | economy, that farmer had better hope that the central
             | planners know about the local soil conditions and allocated
             | some lime for adjusting the pH. In a less planned economy,
             | it'll be in stock at a local store because farmers in the
             | area buy it frequently.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | Central planning attempts did lead to some useful
               | research though; the decentralized planning that enables,
               | say, grocery stores is based on this.
               | 
               | (Some of this was invented by Soviet mathematicians like
               | Leonod Khachiyan, whose children now do useful(?) things
               | like run ironic post-Marxist NYC podcasts.)
        
         | annoyingnoob wrote:
         | When we talk about UBI, we have to ask, where does the money
         | come from?
         | 
         | The answer likely involves inflation, maybe deficit spending.
         | An answer like that makes UBI unsustainable.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | It doesn't necessarily mean that, it just means taxes and
           | interest rates need to balance it out. It's useful as a
           | countercyclical stabilizer.
        
           | bandyaboot wrote:
           | If it were to be implemented, I think we'd want that money to
           | largely come from increased taxes on corporations that have
           | seen increased profits resulting from factors such as
           | automation and offshoring.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | Do those profits actually exist in real (inflation-
             | adjusted) terms and not nominal ones?
             | 
             | Europe uses a VAT for this. You probably want that, because
             | it's the most effective tax at raising revenue, although
             | compliance is a pain and Americans would hate it.
        
         | sfe22 wrote:
         | I'd suggest to go one step further to advanced income.
         | Government guarantees advanced income for everyone, why stop at
         | basic, are you not generous enough?
        
         | greenthrow wrote:
         | What is a government made up of? Hamsters?
        
         | logifail wrote:
         | > people can allocate money better than governments
         | 
         | (Full disclosure: we live in Europe) and my OH - who earns way
         | more than I do - has been moaning about her taxes and
         | deductions since, well, forever.
         | 
         | However in the last few years - and as an entire family - we
         | have hit the state healthcare system pretty hard, including
         | every single member of the family, for a whole variety of
         | reasons. Trips to the ER, accidents, stays in hospital,
         | operations, you name it.
         | 
         | Got some more somewhat frustrating news this morning from our
         | family doctor meaning yet more appointments at the hospital,
         | this time for _two_ more family members, including - but not
         | limited to - an MRI and a gastroscopy.
         | 
         | I was pretty down on the way home from the doctor, but on the
         | plus side, there's basically no cost to us _at all_ for all
         | this additional medical care, other than from having paid the
         | contributions to the state up-front through the taxation
         | system.
         | 
         | Q: You'd prefer to roll the dice that you'll stay healthy?
        
           | weaksauce wrote:
           | > Q: You'd prefer to roll the dice that you'll stay healthy?
           | 
           | not op but I think that in order to have a BI that works you
           | would need to have a functioning single payer health care
           | system like the NHS has. The poor people would still spend
           | the money and the money trickles back up into the wealthy but
           | there is a velocity of the money that the rich don't have
           | that poorer people do have because it's spent in the
           | community immediately instead of ticking up in some wealthy
           | person's bank account accruing interest.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | > people can allocate money better than governments
           | 
           | Maybe for quotidian expenses. But absolutely not for many
           | long term expenses and risks.
           | 
           | My New Zealand government is pretty good at allocating money
           | for common infrastructure and for people's long-term costs
           | (retirement, healthcare, benefit of education). Most
           | infrastructure wouldn't happen if we could avoid paying for
           | it as individuals - fairly provable by comparing between
           | countries that have good and poor infrastructure. We all see
           | how much taxation costs us, but too many people deny/unsee
           | the value of the massive benefits we all accrue.
           | 
           | The other aspect that governments can do is to manage risk
           | and insurance, for rare events, which in my experience most
           | people are extremely poor at planning for. When my city
           | Christchurch was hit in 2010 by a devastating earthquake,
           | everyone has the opportunity to see the value of the
           | infrastructure that they lost (destroyed/damaged), and the
           | opportunity to see the value of belonging to a society that
           | fixes our infrastructure.
           | 
           | Also taxation shares the costs between the financial winners
           | and the losers. We tax those that have benefited financially
           | from belonging to a healthy society (people don't "make"
           | money, their society provides them with their opportunity and
           | the safety to enjoy their gains), and we pay those that screw
           | up (poorly paid job) or have bad luck (lose the genetic
           | lottery, illness etcetera). This is easy to see: take someone
           | who is well off (made themselves) and move them with nothing
           | to a shitty country and see if they rebound: most people
           | would not do well. Cue foreigners with degrees driving taxis.
        
           | WaitWaitWha wrote:
           | > ... no cost to us at all for all this additional medical
           | care, other than from having paid the contributions to the
           | state up-front through the taxation system.
           | 
           | This is a contradictory statement. Either it is no cost to
           | you, or you paid up-front.
           | 
           | I wish you the very best.
        
             | logifail wrote:
             | > This is a contradictory statement. Either it is no cost
             | to you, or you paid up-front.
             | 
             | Perhaps I wasn't quite explicit enough: no _additional_
             | cost to us, after a condition is diagnosed...
             | 
             | I'm sure there are people who are happy to pay as they go.
             | This is fine, right up until the moment when you roll the
             | dice and discover it isn't.
        
         | glofish wrote:
         | It worked because it was a surprise, one-off project.
         | 
         | Start doing it predictably and large scale and it might end up
         | worse than what governments do.
        
         | googlryas wrote:
         | Consider that this isn't a random person, but someone which
         | $10k didn't move the needle very much(which is why she gave it
         | away). Even the selection process wasn't random, probably if
         | you're interested in TED talks and on Twitter, you're different
         | enough from an average person in terms of your interests and
         | means.
        
           | sarahdrinkwater wrote:
           | I think "10k not moving the needle" dramatically depends on
           | your perspective - not sure the food bank that got one
           | working laptop vs using mismatched sheets of paper would
           | agree. Definitely massive donations preferable, but small
           | amounts can be useful - it feels a little privileged to think
           | they cannot.
        
             | googlryas wrote:
             | I meant specifically about moving the author's needle,
             | trying to explain her willingness to give it away, and how
             | it isn't a great exemplar for UBI since she is not an
             | average person. I wasn't talking about those she provided
             | grants to - definitely, to some, $10k can be a life
             | changing amount. There are people who never earn $10k over
             | the course of their lives.
             | 
             | From the author's bio and article, it appears she is
             | involved in venture capital, angel investing, and gets
             | surprise tax bills which amount to more than the average
             | English person earns in a year. That's probably the kind of
             | person who can part with $10k without much hand wringing.
             | Having said that, I do think the author is commendable in
             | giving it away, because for a ton of people just like her,
             | I believe they would just take the money and do something
             | much more selfish with it.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | > but someone which $10k didn't move the needle very much
           | 
           | Assuming she gave it away because she is "well off" is just
           | not nice. The journalist I know was poorly paid for a
           | stressful job - the internet has vastly changed the economics
           | of the industry - in fact they lost their job because their
           | is no money in it any more.
           | 
           | I would guess that the writer is a reciprocation type of
           | person: that feels uncomfortable to be just given things. One
           | lady I knew from the UK had it so ingrained that when given a
           | slice of cake, she _had_ to give us something in return. I
           | also see the same thing a lot in New Zealand culture.
           | 
           | There is also a pride aspect. I literally cannot give money
           | to my friends that could really do with it, even though $20
           | is disposable for me and is really not for them. Social
           | obligation and status signalling make cash really difficult.
           | Oddly enough people often accept gifts of my time and
           | indirect costs, without reciprocation. For example I can
           | spend time and petrol chopping firewood and they will accept
           | the firewood for free, even though it would economically cost
           | me far less to just buy some firewood for them however that
           | would not be acceptable!
           | 
           | Edit: Also she is living in East London which is stereotyped
           | to be relatively poor. The 2021 figures I could find were
           | Waltham Forest (part of Walthamstow) average salary for
           | female PS31.6k/year, compared with PS27.5k/year for workers
           | in North East England (a poor part of the UK). London is way
           | more expensive to live, so she is relatively worse off at a
           | guess. My stereotype of female journalists is that they are
           | doing it for their beliefs, not for the money (those that
           | chase money go to the dark side).
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | nraynaud wrote:
       | I have a weird rich kid story. My dad gave my siblings and I a
       | lump sum that I saved for a while. After a couple of years, as my
       | job had ended, I just bought a small CNC router and toyed with it
       | at home, re-did the electronics, re-did the software (Fusion 360
       | was nascent), and put all of it on github. After a year or so I
       | ran out of money and had to take a job again.
       | 
       | But the github thing slowly produced interest in my CNC work, I
       | got a few gigs related to CAM development (I'm not a machinist)
       | once in a while. Until recently where at last I got a _real_
       | well-paying gig for some real CAM development work. It 's a weird
       | redemption: I went from bumming around with my dad's money to
       | earning more than him _because_ of what I did when I was jobless.
        
         | toss1 wrote:
         | YES!
         | 
         | And this freedom is one of the best arguments for universal
         | healthcare as a right and universal basic income. So many
         | people have amazing ideas that they will implement and
         | literally pay it forward in multiples if given the chance. I'm
         | quite convinced it would enormously magnify the productivity,
         | creativity, and happiness of an entire society.
         | 
         | (&yes, I know that there would be many that would only become
         | more idle, but the overall benefit would outweigh this. it
         | would be more wasteful to attempt to bureaucratically examine
         | everything to "prevent waste"...)
        
         | nmaggioni wrote:
         | Nice to see the MPCNC here!
         | 
         | https://docs.v1engineering.com/mpcnc/intro/
        
       | efitz wrote:
       | I read the headline and thought "they pushed the button".
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/TBEC2A1uwt4
        
       | jbirer wrote:
       | I received an exact 1.246 BTC from an unknown source back in
       | 2019. I used it to travel, hire escorts and eat food.
        
       | leetrout wrote:
       | I have never spoken about this publicly but I found a contract
       | job that paid about $4k for the project a few years ago. It
       | required me hosting a secure database for a couple months and was
       | a run-of-the-mill django project.
       | 
       | I coded it up, ran the project and got paid. I put back 30% for
       | taxes and paid the AWS hosting bills (mostly for RDS) of about
       | $500 and gave the rest to someone who was battling cancer. I gave
       | it to them personally, in cash, in all 1's as a joke. It was
       | pretty cool to see over $2,000 in singles packaged up in money
       | transport ziplocks put down in a gift bag. They thought I was
       | giving them a brick as a joke.
       | 
       | I tell you what - it made me feel like I was on top of the world.
       | 
       | I look back on it and I kind of wish I had figured out how to eat
       | the taxes and give all of it except the hosting costs (I didn't
       | have a ton of expendable income at the time).
       | 
       | Reading this story and thinking about them seeing the tax bill
       | reminded me of this. Kudos to them for being able to give all of
       | it on to worthwhile causes. I bet they felt amazing. It is so
       | nice to be able to do something for someone.
        
         | yieldcrv wrote:
         | Taxes are fun!
         | 
         | - You have an S-Corp and have a 401k attached to that
         | 
         | Let's say you had a contract of $300,000 and the default tax
         | bill is going to be close to 40% for a California resident
         | (-$120,000, leaving $180,000)
         | 
         | - contribute $60,000 to the 401k, since the S-Corp allows you
         | to do both employee contributions ($20,000) and the separate
         | employer contribution maximum ($40,000, when your employers
         | have various matching schemes there actually is a limit to what
         | they _could_ do, which practically none of them do.) _Note,
         | that self-directed 401k 's contribution limits are also
         | dictated by your revenue, of which 20% of it can be contributed
         | up to the dollar maximums, hence the simple example of $300,000
         | as 20% of the revenue is $60,000 - the current total
         | contribution maximum for the year_
         | 
         | This reduces the remaining taxable income to $240,000, with the
         | governments only getting $91,000
         | 
         | - Next step is to double dip, borrow against the 401k. You can
         | borrow half up to $50,000. If this was the first year of having
         | a 401k then that would be $30,000. Otherwise borrow the entire
         | $50,000
         | 
         | - Donate that $50,000 to charity. There are two or three types
         | you can control yourself. At these proportions of your
         | remaining taxable income, the deduction is 1:1 and the same.
         | The same money, two deductions.
         | 
         | - This brings your taxable income down to $190,000, with the
         | governments only privy to $69,000, and now you have dry powder
         | in your non-profits to donate compliantly.
         | 
         | As you might notice, you also have less discretionary income,
         | for now. If you really want to go down this rabbit hole, the
         | point is to follow the government's incentive model of pursuing
         | certain kinds of transactions, and your failure to do so
         | results in the remainder being taxed. The government
         | incentivizes spending - the movement of money at a high
         | velocity - and penalizes and cripples saving in multiple ways,
         | velocity is more useful for the economy as well. Said another
         | way, the goal is to not let the government have any of it, but
         | there are really good state-approved rationales for that which
         | have nothing to do with having an opinion on its spending
         | habits or a misguided sense of "duty". The roads and schools
         | you care about are still going to be built from other capital
         | sources the state figures out, or property taxes they already
         | levy.
         | 
         | so $69,000 is still too much to send over.
         | 
         | The S-Corp likely has QBI qualified income, and that's another
         | 20% tax deduction
         | 
         | But lets fast forward, your overhead costs and business
         | expenses are another 1:1 tax deduction, and if you have any
         | lines of credit or external money (savings) that you spend on
         | the overhead costs and business expenses then you can spend
         | more than you have made and the tax can go to $0 and you may
         | have losses.
         | 
         | Your net operating losses carryforward to future tax years. And
         | also your charitable deductions are not applied if you have no
         | income and those carryforward for several years as well.
         | Starting your next tax year already in a privileged position.
         | 
         | Right, but now you have no money for the house, car, vacation
         | and consumptive spending, what's the point? Again, this is for
         | now. What you can do is grow your 401k tax free and invest in
         | nearly anything. You can grow your non-profit nearly or totally
         | tax free and invest in nearly anything as well as donate, just
         | like you could if you were using those same funds as an
         | individual. These two vehicles can vastly exceed the financial
         | firepower in your own name.
         | 
         | For your goal of having money for the house, car, vacation and
         | consumptive spending: hopefully the business continues growing.
         | At your discretion you can absolutely spend on consumptive
         | things you like. But ideally you can sell shares in the future
         | and get the long term capital gains tax rate, which is way
         | lower than income. Or you can convert to a C-Corp and sell
         | shares tax free under the QSBS tax rate, if qualified. (QSBS is
         | distinct from QBI, and also California state tax would not be
         | nullified) and in those years you are still rolling over tax
         | deductions from the other years to reduce any outstanding
         | income you recognized in your consumptive spending. You can
         | even convert balances from your 401k to a Roth 401k those years
         | tax free, because the prior year deductions can push that
         | income tax event down to zero as well.
         | 
         | YMMV talk to a CPA to confirm or learn relevant realities.
        
           | jeffrallen wrote:
           | Dude, don't be a dick. Just pay your taxes.
        
             | m4jor wrote:
             | That's not being a dick. That's just use the tax system in
             | creative ways to reduce the amount of taxes you owe.
             | 
             | F paying 100% of the taxes you owe.
        
             | s1artibartfast wrote:
             | Nah, everyone should pay as little taxes as possible and do
             | something more constructive with it.
        
         | socialismisok wrote:
         | I did something similar, I paid back the profit I made from
         | every renter who had been a tenant of mine. I found their
         | dates, estimated what they paid above cost, figured how much my
         | property had appreciated since they stayed with me, and cut
         | them all checks.
         | 
         | That was thousands of dollars from me, but it was great to be
         | able to say, "I believe profiting from housing is unethical and
         | I'm willing to actually do something about that."
         | 
         | Reactions were incredible. Lots of happiness was shared. A
         | couple folks were able to start savings they didn't have
         | before.
         | 
         | I highly encourage the successful folks in this thread to find
         | opportunities for giving like this.
        
           | bmmayer1 wrote:
           | If you believe profiting from housing is unethical, why did
           | you buy and rent housing to tenants at a profit in the first
           | place?
        
             | saghm wrote:
             | Given how much later they seemed to have done it, I'd
             | imagine either they didn't come to the conclusion about it
             | being unethical until later, or needing the money at the
             | time enough to do it anyways and later having enough
             | financial safety to be able to pay it back.
        
               | socialismisok wrote:
               | Both of those, actually. As I have become more
               | financially stable myself, my opinions on the nature of
               | wealth have evolved. I'm not the person I was 12 years
               | ago both socially and financially.
               | 
               | I'm lucky my career has worked out, it's given me
               | opportunities to help others and really sit with the
               | question, "what do I feel is right and moral?"
               | 
               | Edit: I think I had read about someone doing this via
               | hacker news, actually, and asked "what would it cost _me_
               | to do the same "
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I've often thought that would be something useful to do,
           | especially since renters often have such a hard time saving
           | (but often are quite able to pay rent on time) - just collect
           | some portion into an account (the deposit account you likely
           | have anyway) and then when they leave fund it all back to
           | them (minus any repairs).
           | 
           | Looks on people's faces when you say "so we needed to
           | repaint, so your $1,000 deposit has left over ... $3k."
        
             | socialismisok wrote:
             | Agreed, deposits should be returned with interest at a
             | minimum!
             | 
             | Even better, if the company has increased in value, your
             | deposit should be returned with that increase reflected.
        
           | digdugdirk wrote:
           | ... Do you have any current vacancies?
        
             | socialismisok wrote:
             | Sadly no, our unit is in use! We have adapted to a model of
             | "here's what our costs are to maintain and insure the
             | space. Adjust your payments based on your income and
             | ability to save."
             | 
             | We've had people rent for nothing, rent in exchange for
             | teaching a skill or hobby, pay at cost, or pay more (the
             | money is held to offset people who cannot afford to pay the
             | full cost of room).
             | 
             | In general, our rental timelines are short, 3 to 12 months
             | usually. People often need a stepping stone to get
             | themselves a leg up and move on to something else. We're
             | happy to make that possible.
        
               | renewiltord wrote:
               | Fascinating. I was just thinking that this would be
               | incredibly risky to do in SF. If you rented to them for
               | very cheap for more than 30 days, they'd have the right
               | to live there forever for that much (plus 7% / year which
               | will be nothing).
        
         | Graziano_M wrote:
         | Unfortunately it feels better to give to an individual than it
         | does many people, even though we can maximize the good we can
         | do by donating more strategically. If it weren't the case many
         | more would donate to e.g. the effective altruism movement.
         | 
         | I'm no better. I donate to charity, but I still feel best about
         | myself for times I helped people change a flat, etc.
        
           | jamespwilliams wrote:
           | You might find https://www.givedirectly.org interesting
        
           | alexb_ wrote:
           | Effective altruists really are the type of people to tell
           | someone that donated thousands of dollars to someone they
           | know with cancer that what they did was a moral fault because
           | it could have saved more lives somewhere else
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | Calling yourself "effective" before you've been effective
             | instead of after is a poor strategy for success.
        
           | andai wrote:
           | A lot of charities let you "remote adopt" a poor child or
           | animal, where you make monthly payments to the organization
           | and they send you pictures of or letters from who you
           | adopted. This seems to combine the best of both worlds, where
           | you're funding the whole organization and all its activities
           | in that area, and have this "anchor" to remind you that
           | you're benefiting the lives of real individuals.
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | > _If it weren 't the case many more would donate to e.g. the
           | effective altruism movement._
           | 
           | Hmm, should I help a human being or spend all my money
           | writing blog posts on why AI will kill us all? Okay, sure,
           | maybe you want to give to a substack for AI alignment people
           | whose sole output is voluminous reams of content on why AGI
           | is around the corner and a harbinger of doom, but I think
           | this may not be everyone's jam.
           | 
           | However, for those who prefer the utilitarian mindset, a
           | friend built https://cosmicbraintrust.org/ so that you can
           | donate to a more worthy cause - an aleph_1 to AI alignment's
           | aleph_0.
        
           | PascLeRasc wrote:
           | Your feelings aren't lying to you. The personal satisfaction
           | and motivation to do more that comes from you directly
           | helping your neighbor makes it even better than just changing
           | a flat tire.
        
           | bheadmaster wrote:
           | Charities are often corrupt griftworks. It's hard to know
           | which ones are and which ones aren't.
           | 
           | I think helping people in our proximity personally is the
           | best course of action. That way, we _know_ that our money isn
           | 't ending up in some greedy grifter's pocket - and if enough
           | people do it, the effect can be greater than that of any
           | charity.
        
             | themitigating wrote:
             | "Are often" do you have data to backup your accusation that
             | covers what I assume would be more than 60% of all
             | charities?
        
             | yboris wrote:
             | > Charities are often corrupt griftworks. It's hard to know
             | which ones are and which ones aren't.
             | 
             | 1. Could you quantify "often"? Are you suggesting at least
             | 10%? If so, that's a bold empirical claim that needs
             | justification. If it's under 10%, then giving $100, even
             | when you know $10 goes to "waste" shouldn't be a deterrent.
             | 
             | 2. It's _not_ hard to find charities that are not corrupt
             | (and most-importantly are _cost-effective_ ) with the money
             | you give, look at this list of _very_ thoroughly-vetted
             | charities: https://www.givewell.org/charities/top-charities
        
               | bheadmaster wrote:
               | I can't quantify "often" - that's the part of the
               | problem. If I knew that, say, 90% of charities were
               | actually sincere, then I could play the numbers game and
               | know that 90% of the money given will go to those in
               | need. But it could also be the other way around - 90% of
               | charities _could_ actually be fraudulent. If that kind of
               | money went into the pockets of the very people who 're
               | making the problem worse (corrupt politicians and other
               | powerful individuals who're destroying their countries),
               | that would make charity a net-negative. There's just _no
               | way to know_.
               | 
               | Websites that act as arbiters of charity justice don't
               | help either, for the same reason - who is verifying the
               | verifiers? It seems to me that the most corrupt charities
               | would be most motivated to boost their numbers on various
               | vetting websites, while the legitimate ones would be too
               | busy actually _doing something_ to bother dealing with
               | internet politics.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | > It's hard to know which ones are and which ones aren't.
             | 
             | https://www.charitynavigator.org/
        
             | jnwatson wrote:
             | The hardest part about true charity is accepting that much
             | of it will not be spent in a way that you deem to be
             | correct. This applies just as much to individual giving as
             | well as government welfare and NGOs.
             | 
             | It is true that many charities are inefficient. Some are
             | fraudulent. Still, it is overall far more effective in the
             | whole to give to organizations that can impact at scale.
        
               | bheadmaster wrote:
               | > Still, it is overall far more effective in the whole to
               | give to organizations that can impact at scale.
               | 
               | You can't know that. Those organizations might as well be
               | making the problem worse, if nothing else then for the
               | sake of keeping the money flowing.
               | 
               | See cobra effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_
               | incentive#The_origina...
        
             | whimsicalism wrote:
             | I think this is probably reasoning to reach the conclusion
             | you had already decided you wanted.
             | 
             | The impact of a dollar in the developing world is so much
             | more than anyone that you could help who is in close
             | proximity to the typical HN commentator that it would take
             | an absolutely massive amount of graft to equalize the two.
        
               | bheadmaster wrote:
               | You're ignoring the impact of your money going into the
               | pockets of _the very people who are making the problem
               | worse_.
               | 
               | Yes, some of charity money actually goes to those in
               | need. But what part of it does go to the people who use
               | that money to further exploit those very people they're
               | helping? What if the total result is actually net-
               | negative?
               | 
               | I believe that greed is a much more common motivator than
               | altruism.
        
               | munch117 wrote:
               | If you don't believe in altruism, then why are you here
               | discussing how best to do it?
               | 
               | The kind of charity that is most likely to be fraudulent
               | or completely ineffectual, is a small, local one. The
               | bigger the organisation, the more cost-effective it is to
               | do checks.
        
               | dahfizz wrote:
               | I don't think it is so clear cut. Charity money going to
               | third world countries often ends up finding corrupt
               | governments and destroying local markets.
        
               | whimsicalism wrote:
               | If you're saying such a large proportion of charity money
               | goes towards graft that it is better to donate locally, I
               | would love a source. If I donate to an organization
               | providing malaria nets, most of that money goes to the
               | malaria nets and some goes to funding rigorous
               | verification that the money is going to malaria nets.
        
             | lozenge wrote:
             | https://www.givewell.org/
             | 
             | https://www.effectivealtruism.org/
        
           | umvi wrote:
           | I'd argue there's something to be gained though for directly
           | helping your neighbor vs. donating to charity. When you
           | directly help your neighbor (anonymously or not), there's a
           | human element there that uplifts and enriches the lives of
           | both parties that is largely absent when the help is in the
           | form of an impersonal check in the mail from some
           | organization. When I've done this (personally gone out of my
           | way to help an individual monetarily or otherwise) I've found
           | it increases my empathy and desire to serve others more than
           | having money auto withdrawn from my bank account annually to
           | a charitable organization (which I also do).
           | 
           | So I guess what I'm saying is... why not both? Donate to
           | charitable organizations, but not exclusively. Also go out of
           | your way to (anonymously or not) do charitable things to
           | individuals.
        
             | whimsicalism wrote:
             | > So I guess what I'm saying is... why not both? Donate to
             | charitable organizations, but not exclusively. Also go out
             | of your way to (anonymously or not) do charitable things to
             | individuals.
             | 
             | I think this is hard for monetary assistance where there
             | really is a direct tradeoff. It's hard to say well I'll
             | keep this $1000 to help someone I find individually when
             | those $1000 instead donated to a faceless charity would
             | probably save another persons life.
        
               | umvi wrote:
               | I think equating dollars to lives is too utilitarian a
               | take to be useful IMHO. The goal of charity could be so
               | much more than "lives saved (globally)". It could also be
               | "lives improved (locally)" which cascades into "societies
               | improved (locally)" which further cascades until the
               | effects of local acts of love are far reaching and impact
               | cities, state, and countries.
               | 
               | If you don't know an individual who needs the $1000, then
               | sure, donate to charity. But not all charity has to be in
               | the form of large cash gifts and not all charity
               | recipients have to be cancer patients on the verge of
               | death. Sometimes being charitable to individuals is as
               | simple as taking out a coworker or neighbor to lunch and
               | just talking to them. Lots of people suffer from
               | loneliness, depression, and things other than cancer and
               | would benefit enormously from someone going out of their
               | way and showing an act of love to them.
        
               | whimsicalism wrote:
               | Right. I agree in the cases where monetary assistance are
               | not involved.
               | 
               | > I think equating dollars to lives is too utilitarian a
               | take to be useful IMHO. The goal of charity could be so
               | much more than "lives saved". It could be "lives
               | improved" which cascades into "societies improved".
               | 
               | Sure, but I guess I think "life saved" is probably the
               | extreme case of life improved.
        
             | Graziano_M wrote:
             | I agree! I am not so utilitarian that I say to the
             | homeless, "Sorry I can't give you a dollar, it would better
             | serve those who need malaria medicine" :D.
             | 
             | There's something to be said about helping those around you
             | directly as a way to build a better local community.
             | Especially when you can help 'for free' (e.g. by helping
             | someone with a flat, as I mentioned).
             | 
             | Now, that said, if we are talking about giving out $10'000,
             | and we're sort of encouraging more to do it (by sharing how
             | we donate), at that magnitude and scale I think it would be
             | better if we encouraged people to donate more effectively.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jongjong wrote:
       | I'm a software developer and I had been trying to raise funding
       | for my startup projects for over 10 years but I never managed to
       | raise a single dollar. During this time, I was also working on
       | open source projects on the side.
       | 
       | One day, someone from my community who I never met gave me $10K
       | worth of crypto because they liked what I was working on. They
       | later made more donations over the following year; the total
       | amounted to about $25K in crypto. It was 100% free money, no
       | strings attached, they didn't get anything in return except a
       | special thanks mention on one of my projects.
       | 
       | These donations have been life-changing. I was able to stake the
       | cryptocurrency tokens to gain a special position on a blockchain
       | project. Over the following 3 years, I was able to earn over
       | $100K (just in 'dividends') from that initial $25K investment. I
       | am still earning decent passive income from that original gift
       | (though now it's not enough to live on after crypto crash). The
       | income allowed me to work on various cryptocurrency and open
       | source projects full time for 3 whole years. I completed several
       | major open source projects during this time.
       | 
       | Now I finally understand the expression "A gift that keeps on
       | giving."
        
       | praptak wrote:
       | So what about breaking the condition not to tell? Weren't the TED
       | people even miffed about this?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mooreds wrote:
         | Here's why she wrote about it:
         | 
         | > I'm coming out of stealth because - in the kindest way -
         | journalists now have my name & want to write about it. Here's
         | the twenty grants I made and what I've learnt doing this:
         | 
         | -
         | https://twitter.com/sarahdrinkwater/status/14025435969565245...
        
       | whycombinetor wrote:
       | From what I can gather from the twitter hashtags, the "report
       | back on how it was spent" requirement effectively shamed the
       | recipients of these TED grants into using it on almost entirely
       | charitable ends. Not a bad thing I guess.
        
         | sarahdrinkwater wrote:
         | So half the group HAD to keep it quiet, half the group were
         | able to share - but not everyone that got cash chose to do so.
         | 
         | Reporting back was done only to TED and tbh I never heard from
         | them again. Only constraint was no saving, no pension - you
         | genuinely could do anything.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sarahdrinkwater wrote:
       | omg! front page of hacker news. I am honoured.
       | 
       | - E17 is an area of east london - I never, ever heard from TED
       | ever again. - I would do this again in a heartbeat.
        
         | m4jor wrote:
         | Did you follow up on any of the people you gave your micro
         | grants to?
         | 
         | How many actually used it for what they said and how many just
         | took the $ and never did anything?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | She seems like an interesting person. I wish her luck, and hope
       | that she doesn't have to pay it back (I suspect that she could,
       | if she needed to), for "breaking Rule C."
       | 
       | I've found that doing Service seldom results in direct monetary
       | or ego benefits, and folks that do it for that, may end up
       | disappointed. I guess, maybe they can do a LinkedIn "humblebrag,"
       | but those are pretty much worthless, these days.
       | 
       | Sometimes, the recipients of our largesse are not exactly
       | thrilled with it. Being anonymous could actually be a measure of
       | self-protection.
       | 
       | Also, sometimes, they don't need our "help."
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/mYLsRTKhyYM?t=100
        
       | skizm wrote:
       | I wonder how many people ignored the email claiming they were
       | being given $10k. There is nearly a nearly 100% chance I'd mark
       | the email as spam, wonder how it got past gmail spam filters, and
       | never think about it again.
        
         | bufferoverflow wrote:
         | Same. I would immediately mark it as spam. Surprised anyone
         | still clicks on these.
        
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