[HN Gopher] Digital Museum of Plugs and Sockets
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Digital Museum of Plugs and Sockets
Author : bschne
Score : 72 points
Date : 2022-09-07 11:22 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.plugsocketmuseum.nl)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.plugsocketmuseum.nl)
| frereubu wrote:
| I got so entranced by this site for some reason that by the time
| I snapped out of it I thought "I bet HN would like this"... only
| to remember that this is where I'd clicked from to get to it.
| marcodiego wrote:
| One thing: my TV uses direct current, so does my computer,
| monitor, sound system, phone charger, all my LED lights... most
| electronic devices are DC now. The only appliances still using AC
| are the higher powered ones or those which have a motor.
|
| This means: we have numerous converters on our devices. We are
| paying the price for them and not all of them are specially
| efficient or durable. It is time to standardize a multi voltage
| DC connector so I can connect all my electronic devices directly
| to mains without the need of any converter. My LED lamps would be
| significantly less expensive, more durable and (maybe) more
| efficient if they didn't have to house a small converter inside
| the fake bulb. Sometimes you have to replace the "power board" of
| your TV... it shouldn't even exist if we had a standard for DC
| mains.
|
| It is time to pressure power distributors to provide huge
| powerful converters just like they do with transformers, This way
| we could have quality cheap DC inside our homes without any of
| these numerous redundant dubious quality converters we need
| today.
| mmastrac wrote:
| I've gone back and forth in my life on this. I think we need
| parallel AC and DC so we can support loads that are inductive.
| Send 48V in parallel with 110V AC and invent a socket that
| gives you either one
| tesseract wrote:
| Long distance (including room-to-room) distribution of low
| voltage DC power is inefficient due to I^2*R losses in wiring
| unless impractically large wire sizes are used. There may be
| some marginal efficiency gains to be had with high voltage DC
| supply and DC-DC converters in electronic devices (this
| architecture is used in some datacenters) but house-wide
| distribution of say 5V is impractical.
|
| Even within a system the size of a desktop PC, the architecture
| that has been determined to maximize efficiency and cost
| savings is an AC-to-12VDC power supply box, feeding additional
| DC-DC converters that produce the necessary logic supply
| voltages (~1.2V) as physically close to the actual load as
| possible.
| Thrymr wrote:
| A standard DC plug that could be installed on an AC line with
| efficient converters and no zero-load power draw would be
| nice. Unfortunately the closest thing we have to a standard
| DC power plug is USB-A.
| tremon wrote:
| _to maximize efficiency and cost savings is an AC-to-12VDC
| power supply box_
|
| Actually, no. That power supply box contains an AC-to-DC
| rectifier, followed by a DC-to-DC power convertor: high-
| frequency convertors are much more efficient than 50Hz
| transformers and can be built with much smaller components
| than a toroidal transformer. Yes, you don't want 5V power
| lines in your walls, but 150V DC would still be more
| efficient for most devices than 120V AC.
|
| The reason (other than inertia) why we probably won't do that
| is because of polarity: AC plugs can be inserted either way;
| DC plugs might destroy the equipment if inserted the wrong
| way, and most existing plugs allow both orientations. Not
| sure many people would like to "re-learn" how to insert a
| power plug.
|
| But, truth be told, I have been thinking about getting myself
| certified as an electrical engineer so I can install DC
| voltage lines in my home: I already have DC solar panels
| (48V), and DC line batteries. It's awfully wasteful to have
| AC convertors on them all, just because that's the standard
| we've settled on.
| tesseract wrote:
| Yes, that is the architecture of a modern offline SMPS. But
| the rectification losses are minimal compared to other
| losses in a PSU and there are options, like active
| rectification, to improve efficiency in that block if
| needed.
|
| I will concede there may be advantages to centralizing
| power factor correction. But on the flip side, components
| like circuit breakers, connectors, and switches for high
| voltage DC face arc quench challenges that their AC
| equivalents basically don't at domestic line voltages and
| currents due to the zero crossing.
|
| In-home batteries are a case where the benefits of DC
| wiring may outweigh the drawbacks though. That is also the
| basic situation in those datacenters I mentioned, where
| power to the racks all comes from a UPS system.
| contingencies wrote:
| _I have been thinking about getting myself certified as an
| electrical engineer so I can install DC voltage lines in my
| home_
|
| FYI in most countries low voltage DC wiring is not
| regulated in the same way AC is.
| tesseract wrote:
| Hence the development of things like power-over-ethernet
| LED lighting: it can be installed by non-electricians.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| > Yes, you don't want 5V power lines in your walls, but
| 150V DC would still be more efficient for most devices than
| 120V AC.
|
| Arcing can become a hazard with large-scale DC power
| distribution. Old American wall switches often had ratings
| for both AC and DC service, and the DC current rating was
| much lower due to arcing. An AC arc self-extinguishes 60
| (or 50) times a second, but DC doesn't offer that luxury.
|
| Even 48V can pack a wallop; I've read accounts of wrenches
| being vaporized when dropped onto bus bars in telco
| installations.
| jws wrote:
| A better answer is three phase power. That reduces the size of
| inductors and capacitors needed in the DC converters while
| still letting you use a transformer to drop from the highest
| acceptable line voltage (to minimize copper use/minimize
| losses) to whatever the device really wants.
|
| Bonus: Three phase transmits more power per "mass of copper"
| than single phase.
|
| Extra bonus: You will never have the stupid starting capacitor
| fail on any of your larger domestic motors!
| jayd16 wrote:
| Replace all your outlets with ones that have USB-C charge
| ports, then switch all your appliances over. Mostly joking but
| I'm sure you could find some USB-C lamps.
| AugustusDefi wrote:
| Frankly I've never understood why there isnt a 3 prong standard
| with a cam lock function across the globe.
| rwmj wrote:
| I remember my grandmother's house in the 1980s still used "old
| British standard" (BS 546) plugs and sockets:
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/OldBritish1.html (15A ones I
| think)
| midasuni wrote:
| They crop up fairly regularly in hotels - lamps for example are
| often plugged in via some bs546 socket
| cranekam wrote:
| My house (UK), built in 2006, has these plugs for lamps in
| various rooms. I'm not sure but I assume they're on the
| lighting circuit (5A) and the plugs don't have a built-in
| fuse.
| dexzod wrote:
| I never understood why US uses a wider pin on two prong plugs for
| the hot wire. Browsing the web site I got the idea that no one in
| the world cares about polarity, both pins are the same size. This
| is a huge usability issue for people with weak eyesight or when
| plugging in something in a tight area such as behind a couch or
| bed.
| axiolite wrote:
| > This is a huge usability issue for people with weak eyesight
|
| What is it about weak eye sight that prevents someone from
| turning their plugs over when they find it doesn't fit the
| first time? Are people with weak eyesight also all THAT short
| of time as well?
|
| Far easier with polarized NEMA plugs than, say, USB-A.
| ars wrote:
| The wider pin is on the neutral not the hot.
|
| Everyone cares about polarity - when you have a 3 prong plug,
| then the ground forces the orientation of hot vs neutral, and
| the two prongs are the same size.
| gattilorenz wrote:
| > Everyone cares about polarity - when you have a 3 prong
| plug, then the ground forces the orientation of hot vs
| neutral, and the two prongs are the same size.
|
| EU/German/Shuko and Italian plugs are entirely reversible and
| grounded, that's what the OP probably was referring to.
| There's no way to force an orientation (and thus a
| "polarity")
| mwint wrote:
| Because there's a bunch of legacy wiring out there that doesn't
| have a ground wire, only hot/neutral.
|
| So if you're designing an appliance that has to work with these
| two-prong outlets, especially if it has a metal housing, you
| want to know which wire is the "shock your customer" one and
| which is the "probably don't shock the customer" one.
| gumby wrote:
| Because often devices have their metal shell grounded,
| especially older lamps and radios, but also toasters and the
| like. Plug it in the wrong way and the metal shell is hot.
|
| Nowadays a lot of devices are made of plastic and / or are DC
| powered so it doesn't matter as much.
| linsomniac wrote:
| There was a time when ground pins were not common, and "double
| insulated" devices were not as common as today. Some of those
| devices grounded the chassis to the neutral in the receptacle.
| The only device I know that I've encountered which fit this was
| the oscilloscope in my high school physics lab. If you plugged
| it in the wrong way (which could happen but I don't recall how
| that was possible), and you touched the metal body of the
| scope, you'd get a little zap out of it.
| Lammy wrote:
| I love the oldschool imagemap for navigation:
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Overview.html
| nayuki wrote:
| I wish we could move to a universal AC mains socket standard so
| that we don't have to stress over travel adapters.
|
| Using IEC 60320 sockets (like for computers and kettles) would be
| great ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 ). Failing that,
| my second choice would be the Australian socket (also used in
| China) ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112 ).
|
| I wouldn't prefer continental European sockets because while the
| hot and neutral pins are somewhat standardized, the ground pin
| and overall shape are wildly different per country (e.g.
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/EuropePlugsSockets.html ). I also
| wouldn't prefer the British socket because it's too big. North
| American plugs have safety problems due to easily accessible live
| pins.
| teraflop wrote:
| Standardizing outlets is a tempting idea, but there are a lot
| of 120V devices that are not designed to tolerate 240V and
| would create extreme safety hazards if they were plugged into
| the wrong voltage.
|
| So I think you would need to design a new system with at least
| two different kinds of outlets, and three different kinds of
| plugs: one for 120V only, one for 240V only, and one for
| "universal" devices (like switched-mode power supplies) that
| can be plugged into either.
|
| And of course, once you replace all the outlets with the new
| standards, everybody would need to get the appropriate adapters
| for their old devices.
| russdill wrote:
| I think you'd just make the sockets and plugs keyed. A 120v
| only plug can only plug in a 120v outlet. A dual voltage plug
| can plug into either socket. Bonus points for providing some
| simple signal that indicates the voltage for dumb appliances
| like hair dryers.
|
| The other option would just be to require all appliances to
| be dual voltage. This would add several dollars to many
| devices but they cost would go down over time.
|
| It's academic anyway, a switchover isn't happening any time
| soon. The only way I can see it happening is if we switch to
| a system similar to EV charging where all connections are
| negotiated. Nothing is hot until required and anything
| operating over current can be immediately identified and
| disabled. Appliances could even limit their consumption to a
| lower setting if insufficient capacity was available on their
| circuit. Such a change could occur due to future regulation
| and hopefully at a time where the cost of the technology has
| gone down significantly.
| asddubs wrote:
| standardizing plugs is more important than sockets. the schuko
| plug works in a lot of countries across different socket
| systems.
| Akronymus wrote:
| The shuko os such a good plug design.
| ars wrote:
| No it is not. It's way too big and it has a fuse inside the
| plug because of historical copper shortages during war.
|
| If I were designing a global plug it would not be based on
| that. I like the layout of Switzerland, but it needs to be
| smaller - there's no need for that much space around the
| plug.
|
| Something the size of a US plug, with the Switzerland
| layout, and shielded prongs instead of a recessed outlet.
| Akronymus wrote:
| > No it is not. It's way too big and it has a fuse inside
| the plug because of historical copper shortages during
| war.
|
| thats the british one.
|
| > Something the size of a US plug, with the Switzerland
| layout, and shielded prongs instead of a recessed outlet.
|
| Sounds like the europlug, which is compatible with shuko
| outlets. Also, IMO a recessed outlet is superior, because
| it provides some additional support, both against
| slipping out and breaking off.
| gattilorenz wrote:
| > it has a fuse inside the plug because of historical
| copper shortages during war
|
| That's the UK plug, Shuko doesn't have a fuse
|
| I still prefer the Italian plug design due to compact
| size tho
| zwieback wrote:
| Just in the US we have a crazy amount of standard plugs:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#/media/File:NEM...
|
| and this isn't a theoretical thing, in our lab we routinely use
| about 10 different plugs for 120 and 240
| Thrymr wrote:
| Indeed, the digital museum page on NEMA plugs says "The variety
| in plug and socket standards is unsurpassed".
|
| https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/NorthAm1.html
| larusso wrote:
| I stumbled upon this side a couple of month ago while searching
| for pictures for Euro plugs. I've this specialized corners of the
| internet.
| louwrentius wrote:
| Just want to say: wat een leuk idee!
| scarecrowbob wrote:
| Reading the comments, maybe this isn't a popular opinion, but I
| use a lot of different ac power connectors (mostly as a sound
| provider) and I am glad there are several form factors to choose
| among.
|
| Not everything I own needs to be Neutrik Powercon... IEC works
| well for plenty of things, as do the locking IEC connectors. And
| sometimes you really need to run a 50A3ph extension cord-- which
| has quite different requirements than the NEMA 5-15 connectors
| which are common in the place I live. There are several options
| for that kind of power; portable 3phase distros are not cheap,
| but they are much better than, say, running the sound and lights
| for stage off a bunch of daisy chained power strips :D
|
| There are so many different usage conditions for power that
| wishing for fewer options triggers my Chesterton's Fence warning
| light.
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