[HN Gopher] You can never have too many backups
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       You can never have too many backups
        
       Author : CHB0403085482
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2022-09-06 09:59 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
        
       | GnarfGnarf wrote:
       | I backup to DVDs. I have every backup for the last ten years. And
       | yes, I can still read them.
        
         | ttkari wrote:
         | > And yes, I can still read them.
         | 
         | Just curious - how often do you test this?
        
       | muttled wrote:
       | To add to this: having the backups copy somewhere that has write-
       | only permissions can be a life-saver in a crypto-ransom malware
       | situation. Hackers are smart enough to delete or encrypt backups,
       | and this is made far easier for them when admins have full
       | read/write permissions to the backup location.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | _Offline_ backups are very important - not only because they
         | can 't be modified because they're disconnected, but because
         | they force _you_ to spend time going and getting them and that
         | time can be important. Many backups are successfully
         | _destroyed_ in trying to back them up, and spending some time
         | to think about what is happening can be worth it.
        
         | SahAssar wrote:
         | rsync.net is great for this. They keep ZFS snapshots, so even
         | though you have read/write access you will always have the
         | snapshots stored. So you will be safe at least as long as you
         | notice the corruption within the normal 7-day rolling window
         | (there are options for other windows or manual snapshots too
         | IIRC).
         | 
         | This should also lead to the question of how up-to-date your
         | backups need to be and is your solution setup for that (is it
         | 1s, 1m, 1h, 1d, etc.)? Define an actual SLA for how much data
         | you can loose and test for that.
        
       | yohannparis wrote:
       | A good trick to convince oneselves to backup and the cost of
       | redoing the work lost.
       | 
       | Sometimes, just a couple of pages of documents, or a setup
       | script, is worth weeks of work, ressources, money, etc. And it's
       | nothing compare to the costs of creating multiple backups.
        
         | AyyWS wrote:
         | Makes sense to backup user data, and script your
         | server/app/database install and setup.
         | 
         | If your RTO is very short, then full backups with fast restores
         | are best.
        
       | zie wrote:
       | If you are backing up users data that is not yours to own and do
       | with as you please, yes you absolutely can have to many backups.
       | If you are required by law or policy to erase user data and it's
       | in your backup(s), you now have a real problem on your hands.
       | 
       | Note: Sometimes the law/policy will make a carve-out exception
       | for backups, if so, yay for you! I'm not currently aware of a law
       | that does this.
        
         | JadeNB wrote:
         | > Note: Sometimes the law/policy will make a carve-out
         | exception for backups, if so, yay for you! I'm not currently
         | aware of a law that does this.
         | 
         | I am confused by these sentences. Sometimes the law does it,
         | but you're not aware of a law that does it?
        
       | darkteflon wrote:
       | The bigger story here is: checklists, checklists, checklists.
       | They're underrated!
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | And automation. So long as you confirm that the automation is
         | doing what you think it's doing.
         | 
         | Another comment mentioned an offline backup. And I agree. But
         | it's also easy to go from having a month old offline backup to
         | a year old to...
        
         | ElevenLathe wrote:
         | Do you know of a good app for doing checklists of this type?
         | Many TODO-list apps market themselves as "checklist apps" but
         | they really just mean "yeah we've got checkboxes". They don't
         | mean "our app lets you choose from a library of checklists for
         | common tasks and pull a fresh one to tick off when you want to
         | perform one of those tasks."
         | 
         | One that seems close is ForeFlight (demo:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d05_ZQMm6Zo&t=23s), but it's
         | just one feature of a much larger app, is mobile only, and
         | obviously targeted at aviation.
         | 
         | I'm looking for similar functionality but more IT-oriented (or
         | at least generic, not referring to airplane models, etc.) and
         | preferably with an offline desktop "client" (it is especially
         | critical that you have your checklist library available if the
         | whole corporate network is down, for example) or, barring that,
         | at least a desktop-friendly web UI.
         | 
         | Honestly, if I knew there was a market for this, I would build
         | it. It's either a great opportunity or the market isn't big
         | enough.
        
           | themadturk wrote:
           | It's Apple only but I use a grocery list app called Grocery
           | (which uses the Apple Reminders database) and it remembers
           | items, allowing you to easily restore things you've check off
           | previously to an unchecked status.
        
             | jiehong wrote:
             | I also used one called CheckYourList, as it proposes to
             | uncheck everything as soon as you've been through a list.
             | [0]
             | 
             | Perfect for do-check lists.
             | 
             | [0]: https://apps.apple.com/de/app/daily-checklist-
             | checkyourlist/...
        
           | akkartik wrote:
           | In the spirit of being wrong so I can learn: this seems easy?
           | Would a simple open source CLI suffice?
        
             | travisjungroth wrote:
             | I was a flight instructor and am now a software engineer,
             | plus I've made a daily checklist app. So I think I'm at
             | least qualified to throw out some opinions on this.
             | 
             | It's not a software engineering challenge. The minimal
             | features are textbook basic CRUD. The essential UI will be
             | well-supported by any framework. Even the challenges when
             | you branch out are solved problems. Device sync, sharing,
             | backups, etc all have some off-the shelf solution or are
             | solved in another space you can look at.
             | 
             | It's a product design / UX / whatever you want to call it
             | problem. Within the set of choices that are easily
             | available to you in the software engineering world, you
             | have to make the right ones! Most people won't naturally
             | make good checklists. How do you help them? One of the
             | biggest (maybe single biggest) issues with checklist is
             | using them at all. How do you get compliance up? How do you
             | handle "skipping" items? Do you go with read/do or
             | do/confirm? How do you keep checklists up-to-date (critical
             | for emergency checklists). It would be very easy to get
             | this stuff wrong.
             | 
             | It also hits a weird spot in the market. What would people
             | pay for this? I don't think you hit enough users for "free"
             | and then my guess is it's a really weird curve with some
             | people paying $1 and then a minority paying like a lot
             | ($100?). I don't know, that's a total guess. Just bringing
             | this up to cover "why isn't a company already doing this?".
             | 
             | Not to be discouraging! Just don't take it as a software
             | engineering challenge. If you're experienced and working on
             | your home turf, it will be easy. The hard thing will be
             | making the _right_ easy thing. Best way to do that is to
             | solve your own problem btw. Maybe start with a  "I crashed
             | the server" checklist or something.
             | 
             | If anyone wants to take a stab, the essay that the book
             | "The Checklist Manifesto" is based on would be a good
             | start. The book itself is a bit verbose, but would be worth
             | it if you get serious. I'd also chat for 30 minutes or
             | answer random questions for anyone who's going to make
             | something. My email is my last name at gmail.
        
           | koheripbal wrote:
           | We use orgmode sync'd to a common folder.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | In an early startup, where developers are also doing ops, and
       | there are periodic manual tasks (like daily/weekly/monthly
       | running certain kinds of backups, eyeballing AWS dashboards and
       | logs to check for anything alerts missed, etc.), using the same
       | board and issue-tracker you use for development tasks helps.
       | 
       | In one company, I used GitLab Board, and had special tags for the
       | recurring and background tasks, which were sticky in Kanban
       | columns right below the generally one-time development tasks. The
       | deadline dates for recurring tasks kept changing to the next time
       | the task had to be done. The Issue description had the concise
       | immediate instructions for the steps of the task (with a link to
       | the wiki for related and background info). And every time you did
       | the task, you added a very quick Comment with any notes, and
       | bumped the due date.
       | 
       | It was very lightweight, and fit the simplicity I was advocating
       | (e.g., the GitLab Kanban board says what everyone is doing, all
       | info goes into GitLab in one form or another, minimal other tools
       | and silos to juggle, etc.).
        
         | thrdbndndn wrote:
         | > Kanban board
         | 
         | Does it have specific meaning in software engineering? Isn't
         | Kanban just billboard in Japanese?
        
           | SahAssar wrote:
           | Yes, it's usually a column-based system for tracking progress
           | of tasks that move through various stages (eg. planning,
           | development, testing, rollout, evaluation).
           | 
           | See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban_board
        
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