[HN Gopher] Apple II Desktop Updated
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       Apple II Desktop Updated
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 34 points
       Date   : 2022-09-05 19:45 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.callapple.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.callapple.org)
        
       | chizhik-pyzhik wrote:
       | Website seems to be down- archive link: https://archive.ph/Vubie
       | 
       | github: https://github.com/a2stuff/a2d
        
       | xhrpost wrote:
       | It feels weird that so much old software from the 80's or even
       | 90's and newer has to be reverse-engineered in order to be
       | understood. The process almost seems like something an
       | archeologist would perform on an artifact thousands of years old.
       | But this software likely has people living who actually built the
       | stuff and know how it works. I understand not everyone can be
       | bothered in life to commit to a project, but surely a phone call
       | could be answered occasionally. Is it just that knowing who these
       | people are is too difficult or that existing copyright issues
       | simply make it unsafe?
        
         | Gordonjcp wrote:
         | In my quest to reverse-engineer the Ensoniq Mirage software I
         | reached out to one of the original authors, who replied to my
         | email and said that while he remembered working on the Mirage
         | fondly he couldn't remember any details and no longer had any
         | of his notes or paperwork from the 1980s.
        
           | joezydeco wrote:
           | It's a sensible reply when you don't want to be accused of
           | holding onto IP that you don't own.
           | 
           | I have kept source code from many projects that I've worked
           | on but if some stranger asked me for details about any of
           | them I'd give the exact same response.
           | 
           | It could also be the complete truth.
        
           | lproven wrote:
           | I can well believe that.
           | 
           | I moderated a talk between 4 of the original team members at
           | Acorn that wrote RISC OS [explanation below] in the 1980s a
           | few months ago. They're all of retirement age now.
           | 
           | Three of them were full of anecdotes and stories and details
           | about the company, the machines, the buildings, etc. The
           | other could barely remember anything about it; his former
           | colleagues were prompting him for details of what he wrote
           | about 35Y ago, but he had little idea. Too much other work
           | since, he said, and too long ago, and he'd forgotten.
           | 
           | I hang out in various retrocomputing fora for fun, and it
           | _amazes_ me the utter nonsense that some people come up with
           | from vaguely-remembered things they knew 30Y ago. They don 't
           | know that they've forgotten, so they free-associate stuff and
           | just make it up, and then many get resentful when their
           | wildly wrong answers are corrected.
           | 
           | RISC OS, for youngsters and Americans (where Acorn didn't
           | sell much) is the original native OS for the ARM CPU, written
           | by the company that developed the CPU and the machine it
           | would power. It is still around today, it's FOSS now, and it
           | runs on some modern ARM hardware such as the Raspberry Pi.
           | 
           | It is a multitasking GUI OS with a rich desktop, networking,
           | internet support, and so on. It ran in from 512kB to 4MB of
           | RAM. It was the first ever GUI computer to anti-alias screen
           | fonts as standard, to move the whole window when it was
           | dragged, rather than a dotted outline and then a redraw when
           | the mouse button was released. The OS, its GUI, its core apps
           | (text editor, image editor, console prompt, filer, etc.)
           | fitted into and executed directly from ROM, that is, _without
           | being copied into RAM._
           | 
           | It was also the first GUI with a dedicated panel showing
           | icons for running apps, plus a system control menu, a clock,
           | and so on -- it inspired the Dock in NeXTstep (which came out
           | 2Y later), which both inspired the taskbar in Windows 95
           | (which came out another 7Y after that).
           | 
           | And the whole OS was written by about 6-7 programmers, and
           | the vast majority of it in hand-coded assembly language.
        
           | KerrAvon wrote:
           | In fairness, I've found this also tends to be the answer one
           | receives when asking the author of some code from two years
           | ago about some important details. Comment your code well,
           | kids. Remember to document intent -- the why, not the what.
        
         | KerrAvon wrote:
         | Assuming that someone has saved the source, you'd have to track
         | them down. If it was work for hire, like say at a fruit
         | company, that person probably doesn't have the rights to it. So
         | you have to go to the lawyers. The fruit company lawyers might
         | not actually be able to verify that the fruit company owns it,
         | but if they want to try, it will require some effort to find
         | the documentation, which will be somewhere in dead tree-based
         | archives from the 1980's if it exists at all.
         | 
         | Which is to say that if you can identify the rights holder and
         | it's not an individual, you have to convince them to spend time
         | and money to release the rights. That they may not be able to
         | easily confirm they have.
         | 
         | Or you could grab the binary and disassemble it and figure out
         | what it's doing yourself.
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | People tend not to remember the details of things they worked
         | on decades ago, let alone have access to source code or
         | contemporary documentation. Even Jordan Mechner - enough of a
         | design-note-taker and packrat to produce detailed retellings of
         | his development process many years later misplaced the original
         | source to _Karateka_.
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-05 23:00 UTC)