[HN Gopher] Violence-as-a-Service: Brickings, Firebombings and S...
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       Violence-as-a-Service: Brickings, Firebombings and Shootings for
       Hire
        
       Author : feross
       Score  : 116 points
       Date   : 2022-09-05 18:02 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (krebsonsecurity.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (krebsonsecurity.com)
        
       | steve76 wrote:
        
       | barrysteve wrote:
       | Roald Dahl had a similar idea in the 80s.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vengeance_is_Mine_Inc.
       | 
       | The plan is simple: Pantaloon is always at the Penguin Club, so
       | they'll show up and ask for him to come out. George will punch
       | him and then escape in the rented 1934 Chevrolet the narrator has
       | waiting.
        
       | yardie wrote:
       | Also featured in Westworld, the RICO app [0], an Uber for
       | criming.
       | 
       | [0] https://westworld.fandom.com/wiki/RICO
        
         | yodon wrote:
         | "The future is already here, it's just not very evenly
         | distributed" - William Gibson
        
       | tempxyz wrote:
       | Shut this down?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | nine_k wrote:
       | Another reminder that our timeline is following almost every
       | prediction of cyberpunk.
       | 
       | Time to revisit some other predictions of it.
        
       | googlryas wrote:
       | I'm guessing the pay for violence as a service isn't very good,
       | since McGovern-Allen now has a public defender as his lawyer.
        
       | guywithahat wrote:
       | When I read this I was assuming there would be some complex
       | darkweb site used to organize this but nope, they did it on
       | discord and telegram. This almost sounds more like idiots being
       | idiots then any kind of organized threat
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | A lot of organized crime is idiots. Aggressive ones etc, but
         | smarts is not exactly the defining feature.
         | 
         | Smart ones gets into business and commit well hidden frauds
         | rather then violence (which tends to attract attention,
         | eventually).
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | It's to be expected that we hear more about the idiots who get
         | caught.
        
         | throwaway787544 wrote:
         | Most of them are total morons. Imagine the average genius that
         | sticks up a liquor store, but have them go on random chat rooms
         | asking how they can learn to sim swap.
        
         | jotm wrote:
         | Why not, drugs are easier to buy on Instagram for the average
         | person. Even though AlphaBay is very easy to access, it's still
         | not that easy. Everyone has an Insta account.
         | 
         | Now, hiding their identities... yeah, some improvements can be
         | made
        
           | jamiek88 wrote:
           | Yeah back before weed was legal in enough states for me to
           | not feel travel limited Insta was the way to find a plug in a
           | new town.
           | 
           | They'd often sidechat you onto kik or something like that but
           | initial find was on insta.
           | 
           | If I can navigate it the 20 year olds sure can.
        
         | anonporridge wrote:
         | Alternatively, organizing crime on discord and telegram is hard
         | enough to detect, monitor, and squash, and provides enough
         | improvement to outcomes and profits, that it's shining a light
         | on how incompetent our law enforcement actually is at policing
         | this kind of organization, and that more sophisticated
         | technologies like Tor and crypto oriented dark net markets
         | aren't strictly necessary.
        
           | kmeisthax wrote:
           | Tor and crypto are sophisticated but they don't actually
           | provide that much extra protection to criminals - as can be
           | seen by the Silk Road prosecution. All Tor does is change
           | where the weakest link in your opsec is.
        
             | sealeck wrote:
             | Tor provides good traffic obsfucation for both host and
             | clients. I would say it's invaluable to criminals.
        
           | bioemerl wrote:
           | Telegram I can understand, but discord is a centralized
           | platform that doesn't encrypt your messages. I'm astounded
           | the authorities don't have a direct ability to just search
           | their database at this point.
        
             | anonporridge wrote:
             | I'm sure they do, but the shear amount of data surely must
             | make it incredibly difficult to accurately detect.
             | 
             | And worse, being a platform for gamers, the conversation of
             | real world criminals might be very difficult to
             | differentiate from regular gamer talk. Just think how many
             | groups are constantly chatting about GTA V. They're
             | literally talking about the crimes they're committing (in
             | the game world). Discord might actually be the perfect
             | place for criminals to hide their conversations in plain
             | sight.
        
               | brandall10 wrote:
               | How do the people interested in this type of mayhem find
               | it? If it's out in the relative open, it shouldn't be
               | hard to find for someone that is motivated.
        
               | littlestymaar wrote:
               | > I'm sure they do, but the shear amount of data surely
               | must make it incredibly difficult to accurately detect.
               | 
               | Except once you get one person who belong to such a group
               | (by any conventional means) or even have one informant,
               | then you can see where they hang out on discord (and
               | there won't be a million of channels to scan) and now you
               | have access to a nice topology of discord use for
               | organized crime.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | brnt wrote:
             | Telegram doesn't encrypt any more than Discord: through
             | https. Telegram offers a 1:1 e2e encryption option, but few
             | use it, because it does not propagate to other devices.
        
               | bioemerl wrote:
               | Never mind, I had confused telegram and signal.
        
           | andsoitis wrote:
           | > hard enough to detect, monitor, and squash, and provides
           | enough improvement to outcomes and profits, that it's shining
           | a light on how incompetent our law enforcement actually is at
           | policing this kind of organization
           | 
           | How many police districts use Palantir?
        
             | sealeck wrote:
             | Too many.
        
           | Schroedingersat wrote:
           | Don't worry. We'll have an overzealous AI enforcer that
           | deletes everything you have on the cloud and blocks access to
           | basic human services on a false positive soon enough.
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | The ones organized on the dark web probably are those we don't
         | hear about.
        
         | robertlagrant wrote:
         | Something's still organised enough to be a threat if it works.
        
         | avodonosov wrote:
         | While the cases in the article use discord/telegram, it does
         | not mean the dark web does not have this. And I am sure it will
         | have in the future. Ananymous communication and payment tech
         | create a possibility for such market. And the possibility
         | combined with demand will inevitably turn into reality.
        
         | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
         | I was hoping for something like the crime app from season 3 of
         | Westworld.
        
         | davedx wrote:
         | Yeah, it's not "as-a-service"
        
           | whateveracct wrote:
           | Do you realize the word "service" has a meaning beyond "web
           | service"?
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | It's New Jersey, home of organized criminals who can't make it
         | in New York City.
        
       | WFHRenaissance wrote:
       | Back in my day you'd just pay the neighborhood troublemaker to
       | slash your ex's tires. My oh my how times have changed!
        
         | tenpies wrote:
         | In the present day, the target just gets fatally run over.
         | 
         | It won't even make headlines in most cities. And even if the
         | assassin is caught, the "penalty" is a slap in the wrist in
         | most Western cities, and even less in most Eastern cities.
         | 
         | Extremely discrete, plausible deniability, and no one bats an
         | eye.
        
       | kelseyfrog wrote:
       | Actually a good thing. This is the gig-economy version of the
       | police.
        
       | reaperducer wrote:
       | Like so many of today's technical innovations, this is something
       | that has existed for more than a century.
       | 
       | Except now it's "but on the internet!"
        
       | Eleison23 wrote:
       | At first I thought this was the perpetration of remotely turning
       | devices into bricks by garbling firmware, but apparently, actual
       | bricks and broken windows are involved.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | I would not be surprised if the former also becomes commonplace
         | in the future, given how much unfortunate reliance most people
         | have on "smart" devices and Internet communication for their
         | lives.
        
       | acheron wrote:
       | Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap
        
       | NKosmatos wrote:
       | Nice startup idea for the criminal/illegal scene. Ok, we all know
       | that these activities are illegal and shouldn't be discussed, but
       | for sure there is a market for such things. I can imagine a VaaS
       | page like a combined eBay/Craigslist format.
        
       | suzzer99 wrote:
       | What I want to know is what makes a SIM swapper angry enough to
       | do this to his "rival"? Is there some kind of online turf these
       | guys are fighting over? Or is it just personal dislike/escalating
       | online feud over nonsense?
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Humans can be volatile, petty, vengeful, etc over
         | perceived/actual transgression.
        
         | kayodelycaon wrote:
         | Sadly, people have been killed over parking spaces.
         | 
         | The amount of anger and violence can be wildly out of
         | proportion to the actual offense.
        
       | Teever wrote:
       | I was recently derided on hacker news for suggesting that we are
       | quickly coming to a time when people will react to police
       | brutality by crowd sourcing drone strikes on the offending
       | officers.
       | 
       | It will be fascinating to see how law enforcement deals with
       | this.
        
         | Msw242 wrote:
         | Nah, going after the police is a death wish for all but the
         | biggest baddies
         | 
         | As enforcement gets more lax (criminal justice reform,
         | progressive prosecutors, etc), victims and their families will
         | start to turn to these tools to buy retribution.
         | 
         | But mercenaries won't go after electeds. Those killers will
         | need to be more bought in, e.g. gang members, cartel militias,
         | etc, with enough power to completely overwhelm govt aligned
         | gangs (like the police)
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-05 23:01 UTC)