[HN Gopher] Jetbrains Space
___________________________________________________________________
Jetbrains Space
Author : solalf
Score : 238 points
Date : 2022-09-03 10:58 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.jetbrains.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.jetbrains.com)
| lastdong wrote:
| Jetbrains is so good, it scares me they'll become the next
| microsoft.
| mdaniel wrote:
| In my experience, no one is _forced_ to use JetBrains, but
| there are innumerable work setups that mandate Windows and thus
| a lot of the Microsoft tooling that implies
|
| It's also hard to distinguish from outside of that ecosystem
| how much Microsoft is pretending to play developer advocate in
| pursuit of the infamous E.E.E. strategy versus PR damage
| control versus they really do want to ship good dev tooling. I
| bring that up because if one is afraid of JetBrains morphing
| into Microsoft, that question brings up "what is Microsoft's
| motivation" in order to compare how much JetBrains would, or
| aims to, have those same motivations.
|
| I'm thrilled out of my mind to pay JetBrains the $whatever/year
| they ask of me because I unquestionably get that much value out
| of them. And that's not even counting the amount of benefit I
| get from being able to fix bugs in IJ Community and PyCharm
| Community due to them being Open. That leads me to believe
| JetBrains Browser, JetBrains Office, and JetBrains OS are
| likely _quite a ways off_ because they have plenty of healthy
| marketshare as it is
| wiradikusuma wrote:
| We use Space due to GitLab's recent pricing changes.
|
| We like:
|
| - free git hosting
|
| - free slack-like with sub-thread
|
| - generous CI/CD
|
| - built-in issue tracker
|
| - built-in wiki
|
| - very snappy
|
| - has mobile app
|
| We don't like:
|
| - CI/CD script uses Kotlin DSL, feels "heavy".
|
| - Issue tracker very basic, we end up using YouTrack. Still don't
| know how to integrate it lol.
|
| - One project can have multiple repos, but they all share same
| permission. So we end up creating multiple projects e.g. mobile
| app, web, backend.
|
| - Regarding multiple projects.. we end up creating another
| project just to contain wiki.
|
| - Cannot trigger based on tag. We end up creating branch for
| different environment.
|
| - Difficulty in writing CI/CD script due to limited
| documentation/knowledge on the net and unfriendly keyword
| ("space"? Lol. You have to type "Jetbrains space automation
| (keyword here)"
|
| - At certain times VERY slow.
|
| - Notifications in Mobile App sometimes not working.
|
| We find confusing:
|
| - Calendar
|
| - Video call
|
| Confusing because why add more features that's already best
| served by other services?
| mgkimsal wrote:
| I'm unsure why the ability to tie the IDEs with the 'space'
| issue system is not in place. I've gotten very used to using
| IntelliJ and PHPStorm contexts relating to issues tied to an
| issue tracker. There's no connector for 'space', and hasn't
| been for... over a year? If they're wanting to offer all these
| items and tie you in to an ecosystem... then tie them together.
| I'm probably in a minority in using it, but it was the first
| big WTF I saw when trying to start some new projects with
| 'space', and just gave up for now. If it's not that important
| to them after a year... it makes me question their priorities
| (have been a paying IDE customer for... over 10 years at this
| point).
| valenterry wrote:
| > - CI/CD script uses Kotlin DSL, feels "heavy".
|
| That's a PRO!
|
| Every CI/CD tool that uses yaml or any other non-programming-
| language should burn in hell.
|
| Let the developer write the code that creates the datastructure
| that describes the CICD process. That is flexible, reusable and
| can even be made typesafe.
| dagmx wrote:
| Personally I'd take the Kotlin setup over writing Groovy for
| Jenkins. God I hate configuring Jenkins for CI.
| badloginagain wrote:
| Feels like there's a big race to be the all-in-one everything
| tool for everything. It's Gitlabs whole schtick, GitHub is
| moving in that direction, now "also Jetbrains".
|
| IMO I think something like Jetbrains should be leaning into
| integration, not all-in-one. Connective tissue last longer than
| walled garden.
| delusional wrote:
| There's no money in integration. It's very easy to get
| approval for some big shiny tool with a frontend and 19
| different features. It's very difficult to get corporate
| approval for a tiny integration thing that makes 5 of those
| features work with some others in a different tool. "Can't
| you just type it in manually?"
| dijit wrote:
| Is that true? A large part of the value add of Asana is
| that it integrates with everything.
|
| They're probably the most expensive issue tracking tool
| (many times the amount we'd pay for Jira), but it's
| extremely worthwhile for us so we pay it.
| 41b696ef1113 wrote:
| The pain of getting finance to approve recurring charges
| is quite real.
| pjmlp wrote:
| The race is to go back into the timesharing development
| workflows, under the guise of cloud development.
|
| Instead of telnet, ssh and X display, we get to use the
| browser.
| zoomzoom wrote:
| IMO it's also about choosing the right things to integrate
| vs. build. I agree that with Space in particular, the choice
| of what they integrate vs. build does not make sense for
| maximizing developer experience and value. At Coherence
| (withcoherence.com // I'm a cofounder) we are also building a
| more integrated set of tools for building software, but we
| don't feel that GitHub and Slack or JIRA/Asana/linear are the
| tools to bite off, or that the world needs yet another CI
| syntax and hosting platform. Those are all great places to
| choose integration with existing popular tools. We do agree
| with the Space product thesis in that the Cloud IDE is a
| central piece of the next generation platform - we just think
| that tying it deeply to the deployment and cloud
| infrastructure workflows provides the most developer value.
|
| Of course, we're huge fans of JetBrains products, and them
| and the other companies mentioned above have so much
| credibility and such vast resources that they are going to
| deliver widely-used and powerful products. We hope to
| integrate with them where it makes sense!
|
| If you are curious to learn about about Coherence, please
| check out our free beta at the link above or feel free to
| reach out to hn@withcoherence.com... We appreciate any and
| all feedback from the HN community.
| mdaniel wrote:
| > - CI/CD script uses Kotlin DSL, feels "heavy".
|
| But hopefully the IDE completion is second to none? My
| experience with editing .gitlab-ci.yml is that different
| versions support different features/structures, but GL didn't
| annotate their file with any such version specifier making it
| hard on the tooling. I haven't used Space in anger in order to
| know what that editing experience is like, but I have used the
| Kotlin version of gradle and it's night and day different
| having actual, you know, _types_ for things
|
| As much as I detest Jenkins, the one thing I thought it did
| well with Jenkinsfile was the ability to declare shared modules
| (GL offers this too with "includes:" but it can be some
| mindfuck trying to reason about the hierarchy, extends, and now
| !reference usage to get composition correct). I hope Space has
| something similar if they're going down that (literal)
| pipeline-as-code route
| wiradikusuma wrote:
| That's what I thought initially (it's just code!
| autocomplete! using Jetbrains' own tools!
|
| But, unless you already know what you're looking for, it's
| useless. The documentation is very short and lacking
| examples. So the completion is, well, just for completion.
| Not good for exploration.
| mdaniel wrote:
| That's incredibly sad to hear; did you open a YouTrack
| about it? I've had mixed results with their bug triage
| process, but in my mind if I don't bitch, it's for sure not
| going to get any attention:
| https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issues/SPACE
| sod wrote:
| All in one solutions always look super nice when they first come
| out, as they can shortcut to just implement all the best
| practices that most people do right now and look very clean by
| omitting all the weird edge cases. But give it a couple of years,
| and you are stuck with a slow moving monolith. That jetbrains
| fleet - a year after the announcement - is still in closed beta
| shows that they aren't really setup to move quickly.
|
| But from a business perspective this seems like a good move.
| There is no competition for such a complete package? Email seems
| to be missing though. And even if your software is closed source,
| what if you want to open source parts of it for exposure and
| talent acquisition?
| symlinkk wrote:
| > There is no competition for such a complete package
|
| GitHub + VSCode
| KronisLV wrote:
| > All in one solutions always look super nice when they first
| come out, as they can shortcut to just implement all the best
| practices that most people do right now and look very clean by
| omitting all the weird edge cases. But give it a couple of
| years, and you are stuck with a slow moving monolith.
|
| I'd say that a lot of the pain comes from needing to integrate
| with the dozens of different pieces of software that people use
| for their bespoke work setups.
|
| For example, you might use self-hosted GitLab for code and code
| reviews, but something like Jenkins for CI/CD - so all of the
| sudden you need to think about the webhooks and reporting build
| status back for the web UI. Of course, I've seen people just
| not do that any only Jenkins being able to show you what's
| going on with your builds (though at least with e-mails).
|
| Furthermore, you might use something like Redmine or Jira for
| issue tracking which once again have plugins that you need for
| GitLab to be able to add links in the UI for actual changes
| done to the code for some business need. Of course, you could
| go with not the official plugin but something like Jigit which
| has its own set of oddities and configuration needs.
|
| But if you can stick within the same ecosystem, such as GitLab
| and GitLab CI (which I implemented in the company and now the
| majority of new projects use it, because it seems like the sane
| choice) and maybe even GitLab with GitLab Issues, or even their
| new features for managing feature flags (which you might just
| not have otherwise, or will have XML configuration files) and
| environments, you'll generally have a pretty positive
| experience!
|
| Personally, I always welcome new players in this market because
| competition is good, especially when the offerings can be self
| hosted (which is sadly not a lot of them).
| nightowl_games wrote:
| It seems like a daunting task for Space to actually deliver on
| all it's promises, but Jetbrains has an extremely high amount of
| credibility with developers. I want to believe in this product,
| as I want competition against VSCode and Slack.
| chrsig wrote:
| I can believe that it'll be rough at first, but jetbrains is
| really good at iteratively improving their products.
|
| that said, I'm not incredibly interested in it. Maybe if I were
| at a company that just got a series A or something, and was
| starting to hire quickly, and didn't already have an entrenched
| environment.
|
| I'll probably make use of their remote environments at some
| point -- it solves a lot of cross-platform development
| problems. Still has some rough edges though, based on my 10
| minute attempt to use it.
|
| I'm at the point where the _only_ thing I want from them is to
| be able to use a single ide for multiple languages in the same
| project. I 've brought it up before on HN, and it seems like
| for at least some of their products you can still use as
| plugins to intellij. But clion really throws a wrench into
| that.
| mdaniel wrote:
| > But clion really throws a wrench into that.
|
| I was curious what the experience was since (as you pointed
| out) there's no C/C++ plugin to add to IJ but I thought
| _surely_ CLion would support their JDK bread and butter, but
| damn if it doesn't
|
| > "*.java files are supported by IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate Try
| IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate"
|
| :-/
| pjmlp wrote:
| JetBrains products are the only Java IDE that doesn't
| support JNI debugging and development, they rather sell two
| licenses.
|
| Android Studio supports that use case, because Google has
| gotten so bad feedback from leaving NDK users stranded,
| that they eventually got an agreement to have Clion plugins
| as part of Studio.
| mdaniel wrote:
| > they eventually got an agreement to have Clion plugins
| as part of Studio.
|
| Wow, that sounds huge given that as a paying "all you can
| eat" user I don't believe that _I_ can even install the
| CLion plugins. Do you happen to have a link talking about
| that deal?
| pjmlp wrote:
| One of many,
|
| https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-
| us/community/po...
|
| Enjoy the JetBrains answer.
| bcjordan wrote:
| +1 having to juggle multiple IDEs for a multi language
| project is clunky.
| mdaniel wrote:
| Yeah, bonus points for them seeming to use the same `.idea`
| directory but in incompatible ways :sob:
| wseqyrku wrote:
| Overall looks like GitLab and YouTrack. Both have awful UI.
|
| GH which I'm most comfortable with looks like neither.
| dixie_land wrote:
| Jetbrains pivots towards integrated solutions unfortunately
| reminds me of the demise of Delphi when Borland moved to "ALM".
| Hopefully IntelliJ fares better
| mdaniel wrote:
| I cannot tell you the amount of "shut up and take my money" if
| they'd wire IJ analysis into Space, because while they've been
| trying to ship Qodana for a while, holy hell it's executed
| poorly. With Space, how can they _not_ have the expertise to
| have a checkbox that says "run our inspections upon this code"
| without having to have a PhD in both CI and IJ
| pjmlp wrote:
| They started to remind me of Borland when they came up with
| Kotlin and with Google's help, started to see the JVM only as a
| means to bootsptrap their own Kotlin ecosystem.
| jpalomaki wrote:
| Interesting that they are also offering on-prem option for Space
| [1], currently in beta.
|
| [1] https://www.jetbrains.com/space/download/
| lobota wrote:
| The chats, calendars and CI/CD into one is top for our team.
| Really can help us stop using multiple tabs and tools
| mbaris wrote:
| Looks really cool but I think they are being overly ambitious
| with how much they are trying to do.
| noisy_boy wrote:
| What I really want is a workflow for managing change requests
| (CRs) that is tightly integrated with Github and Jira. ServiceNow
| is super clunky (you can't even have markdown in the fields to
| provide some decent formatting) and the copy-pasting of links
| gets tiring very fast.
| sjroot wrote:
| https://support.atlassian.com/jira-cloud-administration/docs...
|
| Why would you want to loop in a completely separate service
| when GitHub and Jira already have an integration available?
| noisy_boy wrote:
| I am already using Github and Jira integrated - problem is
| that a. Jira doesn't provide a change request workflow b.
| They don't integrate with ServiceNow (which is a major IT
| service management workflow used for, among many things,
| change management).
| ilovecaching wrote:
| I find this shift to paid, online code editors and IDEs very
| dystopian. The last thing I want to do is rely on a proprietary
| non-free tool that I need internet to access, can not only gather
| telemetry about my usage, but also all my code... At some point
| people have to decide that privacy and freedom are more important
| than some level of convenience. For me that line is already
| crossed.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Developers have bills to pay and the return to timesharing days
| seems to be only way to force people to actually pay for the
| work of others, just like in every other profession.
|
| Indeed, the line has been crossed, free beer is empty.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > At some point people have to decide that privacy and freedom
| are more important than some level of convenience.
|
| Why do I need to decide that? I'm just trying write some fun
| code. It's all open source and meant to be looked at anyway.
| ilovecaching wrote:
| And that's exactly how dystopias are created. People give
| away their privacy feeling like they have nothing to hide, up
| until the point that they really need it back when it becomes
| a tool of oppression and espionage, but by then it's already
| too late. Corporations love to downplay these risks and make
| it seem like avoiding their road map to vendor lock in and
| proprietary, subscription based software is for people
| wearing tin foil hats. There are certain areas where using
| proprietary software is too difficult and improvements are
| needed. I don't advocate for a Stallman like approach. All I
| am saying is there are enough great open source tools out
| there that you don't need to pay for a proprietary editor at
| the very least.
|
| There's also a bit of hypocrisy at play when you care about
| making your own projects free and open source, but you don't
| want to support the developers building free and open source
| tools by using their projects.
| [deleted]
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > it's already too late
|
| Too late for... what? What do you think is going to happen?
| JetBrains are going to lobby for a law preventing local
| development?
|
| > hypocrisy at play
|
| Wow there's no hypocrisy. I've got no moral obligation to
| support your open source project just because mine is open
| source. Hypocrisy is telling people to do something and
| doing another yourself. Given I haven't told anyone to do
| anything, where is the hypocrisy?
|
| _You're_ the only person telling anyone to do anything.
| ilovecaching wrote:
| > JetBrains are going to lobby for a law preventing local
| development?
|
| You think this is hyperbole, but companies lobby for
| unfair and anti-consumer, anti-privacy laws all the time.
|
| You live in a world with a weekend and reasonable working
| conditions because workers banded together and fought
| against corporations to buy those things for you. Don't
| be naive. Corporations do what is best for their bottom
| line.
|
| > telling anyone to do anything
|
| I am explaining to you why it's in your own self interest
| to support free and open source software and think of it
| as a community rather than a label for a project.
| Corporations don't need you to side with them, they have
| money and lobbyists, advocate for your fellow volunteer
| devs instead.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| This is way off the deep end as a response to a company
| offering a tool that nobody has to use if they don't want
| to.
|
| > I am explaining to you why it's in your own self
| interest
|
| That's for your opinion of my own interests.
|
| JetBrains don't tell me what I should do, or tell me that
| I don't know my own interests, or make moral judgements
| against me, only people like you do that.
| scombridae wrote:
| If we, the discerning consumer, could just take and toss
| the flyer being thrust into our faces by the picketer
| outside the Amazon warehouse (or the free software
| movement's equivalent), the world and HN would be a less
| acrimonious place.
| ilovecaching wrote:
| Why would a corporation make a judgement against you when
| you're advocating for them?
| chrisseaton wrote:
| They don't make judgements if you're advocating for them
| or not.
|
| If I turn down a service from a company they don't
| question my morals or call me a hypocrite do they? That
| just doesn't happen like you think it does.
| jen20 wrote:
| If you're looking for a vitriol target I'd spend a lot
| more time looking at VS Code which has basically eaten
| the lunch of FOSS while dressed as a sheep than a
| commercial tool which has always been commercial (even if
| the source is available under a very reasonable license).
| dehrmann wrote:
| The only things here that concern a business using the product
| are price point and if there's an offramp in case it's
| discontinued. Business are used to paying for tools, have
| internet connectivity with at least three nines of
| availability, don't care that a vendor is measuring tool usage,
| and are satisfied by the contract that says how their code can
| be used.
|
| Even at an individual level, people were paying for Turbo
| Pascal in the 80s and 90s.
| brap wrote:
| Seems cool, but the demo video is so corporation-y it's comical.
| When they said "experience synergy and convergence throughout the
| system" I almost thought it was satire.
| [deleted]
| jen20 wrote:
| They know their audience: middle managers who need to sound
| like they add value.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| I suspect a lot of the success of this will hinge on how friendly
| it is to tools outside the Jetbrains ecosystem. In particular
| VSCode. On my team in our little startup doing Rust it's sort of
| 50/50 CLion vs VSCode. And in many ways we're getting okayish
| value out of just GitHub + Notion + Google Docs.
|
| I'm a big Jetbrains fanboy and an IntelliJ user since the 3.x
| days. I hope it works out for them.
| smrtinsert wrote:
| This is my exp too. Shops are usually majority Jetbrains but
| then there's those people who just refuse to switch and they
| like Sublime and vscode.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Xcode, Eclipse, Notepad++, VS and VScode over here.
| pjmlp wrote:
| With Microsoft increasing adoption of Rust, I imagine
| eventually they will ramp up their investment into Rust IDE
| tooling.
| mgaw wrote:
| It seems they are deprecating their standalone code review tool
| Upsource in favor of the code review tool that's integrated into
| Space.
|
| Upsource is nice because it allows opening a review for a set of
| commits which aren't necessarily continuous. This way, multiple
| people can work on the same branch at the same time, and open a
| review for their respective commits afterwards. You don't need to
| wait for your coworker to have their review approved and their
| branch merged before you can start building on their work.
|
| As far as I know, the other popular review tools (e.g. Github
| pull requests) only support reviews for entire branches.
|
| Does anybody know another review tool which allows commit-based
| reviews as Upsource and Space do?
| prattmic wrote:
| I'm not familiar with Upsource, but what you describe sounds
| somewhat like the Gerrit review process. Each commit is
| reviewed individually, but sending multiple dependent commits
| for review is supported as well. It is technically possible for
| a coworker to build on top of your unsubmitted changes (by
| checking out your commits and adding more on top). However this
| process gets somewhat painful if the coworker updates their
| commits, which would require you to do a convoluted rebase.
| mdaniel wrote:
| I played with Upsource back when it was their "static-
| analysis in the cloud," and it actually was cool, but holy
| hell it was a beast to get up and running, and (just like
| Qodana that they're trying now) the static analysis was(is?)
| indescribably hard to configure correctly to get meaningful
| results
|
| I've heard great things about Gerrit, but it also seems like
| one of those "strongly opinionated, mailing-list based"
| review systems, and trying to lobby for such a thing in the
| GitHub/GitLab web based world is practically a non-starter in
| my experience
| prattmic wrote:
| Gerrit is pretty strongly opinionated, but it is not
| mailing-list based. Review notifications are sent via
| email, but otherwise everything needs to be done via the
| web UI (or other tool using the API).
| severino wrote:
| Things like the Git hosting provided by this Space thing sounded
| pretty good for EU-based users, as Jetbrains is a company
| registered in the Czech Republic.
|
| Unfortunately, their FAQ on privacy states that all of the data
| will be stored in Amazon AWS, so from the privacy perspective
| this is no improvement over Github or Gitlab.
| jen20 wrote:
| If you think that Amazon are reading customer data, you are
| utterly crazy.
|
| Privacy is multi dimensional. If the US government wants access
| to your stuff, all the EU hosting in the world is not going to
| stop them.
| morelisp wrote:
| > Privacy is multi dimensional.
|
| > If the US government wants access to your stuff, all the EU
| hosting in the world is not going to stop them.
|
| These statements are at odds. The first is true, invalidating
| the second.
|
| If the NSA wants to read my email because they think I'm
| involved in a terrorist bombing plot, sure, I'm burned on any
| provider.
|
| If the FBI wants to read my email for pretty much any reason,
| they'll have to send a warrant which can be addressed in my
| local court rather than just go through FISA or the CLOUD
| Act.
|
| If some podunk Texas DA wants to see if I've visited an
| abortion doctor in France, if the service provider's in the
| US there's a decent chance for a warrant. If it's in the EU,
| go pound sand you fuckers.
| severino wrote:
| I don't think I said Amazon is, or isn't, reading customer
| data. Nobody knows.
|
| As an EU citizen, I just prefer my data to be handed by an
| European company inside an European country, as I wouldn't
| want my data to be in China, handed by Baidu, if I was an
| American citizen.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| Why would the China thing matter? Having the NSA etc have
| data on me is no good. I am American. I have nothing to do
| with China. The country will never matter personally to me
| or my life.
| lumost wrote:
| Curious what folks use for "all-in-one" development? I'm
| increasingly finding that I don't have the time/inclination to
| learn yet another tool for getting basic work done. I've loved
| working with AWS copilot, and I want to use something like space
| - but curious what folks have found.
| dzikimarian wrote:
| We were waiting for the on prem version to give it a run. Sadly
| pricing structure is completely different than other Jetbrains
| products and tbh - crazy expensive. I hope it isn't beginning of
| transition to overpriced SaaSes everyone else offers.
| scambier wrote:
| Its between $8/month and $99/month, and the highest tier
| includes all Jetbrains products. That looks... reasonable?
| dzikimarian wrote:
| On prem is starting at $25/mo/user. This tool includes chat,
| wiki etc, so you want to bring business people too. Suddenly
| it's couple grands per month + hosting fees, and you're still
| hostage, as despite using own servers it will stop working as
| soon as you miss scheduled payment. Since Spaces integrate
| half of functionality your company needs - of course you will
| pay.
|
| Compare that to other Jetbrains products, where you pay
| similar amount once and you can use it forever and you'll see
| how huge step back it is.
|
| I'm happy for everyone in this thread, that it's trivial for
| your organization to budget $100k+ (realistically, for mid-
| size org it's something like this to fully integrate and then
| pedal back from solution of this size if suddenly you are out
| of the money - eg. Atlassian estimates 9 month+ migration for
| its jira instances), however for me it's still kinda big bet
| :-)
| Semaphor wrote:
| It's $25 or $125 (includes all product pack, requires min 50
| users) per usermonth. The OP said on prem.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Seems like a completely trivial sum of money for a key
| professional tool?
| Semaphor wrote:
| I'm not disagreeing, just wanted to correct what prices
| are talked about ;)
| mdaniel wrote:
| waiting for the on-prem GA? because it is available just
| labeled as "beta" for whatever that means:
| https://www.jetbrains.com/space/whatsnew/#scope-2022-q3-spac...
| tasubotadas wrote:
| Has anybody actually tried it? Anyone willing to share their
| experiences?
|
| The tools looks extremely promising for smaller teams that just
| want to get the whole thing going with minimal config
| [deleted]
| lozenge wrote:
| It looks beautiful in the video demo, I just wonder whether
| integrations will let it down.
|
| GitHub integrates with any code coverage, code quality, security
| scanning, or CI solution out there.
|
| Slack similarly integrates with any on-call system, time tracking
| system, code host...
|
| Sure Jetbrains Space has provided the API, webhooks and SDK, but
| most teams want to focus on their application itself? It feels a
| lot "safer" to go with a service that isn't trying to offer
| everything and then pick and choose. Slack+GitHub+CI of the
| month+code quality plugin of the month+anything...
| ehnto wrote:
| I think the hodgepodge, piecemeal nature of software
| development tooling is both a strength and a downfall.
| Something like JetBrains Space appeals to me at this point in
| my career, because I really just want to write the software and
| have everything else handled by default. I don't want to be
| gluing together services just to get work done.
|
| It's also appealing to me as a way to align everyone on the
| same tools. One of the most effective places I ever worked, had
| unified tooling across the developers, and was also working
| exclusively in one software framework. That made them an
| absolute powerhouse, and able to share knowledge and streamline
| work in a way you can't do in other environments.
| xeromal wrote:
| Yeah, API/Service gluing in general gets old. I hate keeping
| things that have different dev cycles in sync.
| e3bc54b2 wrote:
| Heh. You know who made their fortune providing "everything
| else handled by default"? Microsoft.
|
| Now that enters a fairly divisive terrain, but needless to
| say, what you expect from single source of tooling generally
| does not end up being delivered.
| ehnto wrote:
| I hear you, and I'm certainly not after Conglomerate
| Enterprise Tooling. But I think there's room for somewhere
| between that and makeshift tooling pipelines. Not everyone
| has to use it, but I'd like to have the option of an
| integrated software development platform.
| kevmo314 wrote:
| I tried it out a bit, the integrations feel really lacking. For
| example, the teams section is cool, but it can't sync with GSuite
| or Rippling (or anyone, for that matter), so I have to maintain
| essentially two sources of truth. Same with calendar, Space won't
| sync with anyone else, but it doesn't have the ability to invite
| external users or add video conferencing details. Pretty much the
| only functional integration seems to be with Github.
|
| This feels like a "jack of all trades, master of none" kind of
| situation. I love the premise, but integrations are going to make
| or break this for me. Admittedly, that's the hardest part to
| build.
| sghiassy wrote:
| It's like a boatcar. A boat and a car, rolled into one. What
| could go wrong
| graypegg wrote:
| I have actually used Spaces on a small side project with some
| friends up until a few months ago! It does seem to have improved
| since then, but when I was using it the project management/jira-
| ish features were pretty weak. Basically just tickets with IDs,
| that you could assign a status. It worked well for our little
| project but I wouldn't be able to use it on a larger project.
| (Things like ticket relations and sub tasks that aren't just
| check lists become pretty important imo to not losing things, vs
| just having everything be a free floating ticket)
|
| The git host and PR management system is well built, and was by
| far the highlight of using it. It works really well, and I much
| preferred their model of PRs being just a message thread under
| the hood, so notifications show up in one spot and remain open
| and findable, in comparison to GitHub where I tend to lose PRs
| that I have already reviewed/interacted with once.
|
| We never used the documents/confluence portion of the app, but it
| seemed capable at first glance, though if I was asked to pick a
| space to keep structured docs, I'd probably still use something
| like notion.
| Koshkin wrote:
| Indeed, the process of how software is developed by a large team
| is different from how it is done by a small team, which in turn
| is also different from the workflow followed by an individual
| developer. The larger the team, the more indispensable the tools
| integration becomes (speaking as a user of Microsoft Teams/Azure
| DevOps).
| lopatin wrote:
| Someone's already working on an Eclipse plugin.
| yewenjie wrote:
| I don't use any Jetbrains product and I have no idea how well-
| executed this is, but I am pleased to see a relatively smaller
| company competing against the almost monopoly of Microsoft's VS
| Code and GitHub.
| mdaniel wrote:
| Err, you're aware that GitLab is MIT and Space is not even
| pretending to be open, right?
|
| IntelliJ and PyCharm Community are both Apache 2 licensed and
| are absolutely stellar <https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-
| community> (I mean that they're not crippleware, they're
| outstanding products that just happen to omit Spring, SQL, and
| Django support from the Apache 2 versions)
| number6 wrote:
| I recently bought the Professional Edition of Pycharm after
| using it for years. The pro features are nice but nothing I
| missed. Definitely not Crippleware
| mdaniel wrote:
| I also forgot to include "remote executors" in that list
| for shops that use docker or similar machine learning
| setups; I can imagine that's a non-trivial market for
| PyCharm Pro
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| vs code could always go this way in the future too. some
| of their most popular features are closed sourced
| freeware. they probably would never directly charge but
| it definitely violates the open source spirit when the
| guts of your IDE are closed off
| number6 wrote:
| The out of the box experience of Pycharm is just amazing.
| Agreed you can do all this with VScodium or even Vim but
| it's all so much setup...
| mdaniel wrote:
| Also, the depth of the inspections present in all of the
| JetBrains products make them absolutely incomparable to
| any "linter" setup or current LSP implementations. But,
| relevant to this topic, so too is it some unholy
| incantations to try and run those same inspections in CI,
| partially because I think that very concept isn't
| important to JetBrains and partially because of the
| indexing required by the JB IDEs that drive everyone
| starkraving mad as compared to the less intelligent
| editors that can load a text file in a super big hurry
| sebazzz wrote:
| It is very unfortunate that they killed Upsource and the
| recommend Space as an alternative. It is like recommending a
| Swiss pocket knife as a replacement for a screwdriver. A
| screwdriver that is much easier and comfortable to handle.
|
| Being a long-time customer of Jetbrains they didn't even want to
| offer a license so we could temporarily extend our Upsource
| license while searching for an alternative. Even not though we
| offered to pay for it.
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