[HN Gopher] Generating Fashion Using AI
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       Generating Fashion Using AI
        
       Author : BIackSwan
       Score  : 209 points
       Date   : 2022-09-02 14:36 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | suref wrote:
       | I wonder when the transition will happen and when DALLE 2 and
       | similar technologies will actually replace jobs. Because
       | practically, they can already.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Has anyone run existing stop-motion videos through DAIN?
        
         | makeworld wrote:
         | Yes, it's linked in the thread:
         | https://twitter.com/karenxcheng/status/1552348027834118144
        
       | Maxion wrote:
       | Jesus christ fast fashion is just going to get worse isn't it?
       | 
       | Standing infront of your augmented reality mirror in the evening
       | swiping through AI generated outfits for the next day that are
       | made automatically during the night and shipped to you by drone
       | the next morning to wear for the day and then dispose of.
        
         | wesleywt wrote:
         | Old man yells at the sky.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | "Standing infront of your augmented reality mirror in the
         | evening swiping through AI generated outfits for the next day
         | that are made automatically during the night and shipped to you
         | by drone the next morning to wear for the day and then the next
         | time to drone comes, it also brings with it yesterdays fabric
         | to recycle it by destroying it to small particles, washing
         | them, then create new clothes for a different person, and the
         | cycle starts a new"
         | 
         | Adding a bit more imagination to your initial idea make the
         | entire idea actually a net-positive. People can start recycle
         | clothes (good for the planet), with a new design everyday (good
         | for people who like that) and it provides a business (good for
         | the economy).
        
           | hahaitsfunny wrote:
        
           | bongobingo1 wrote:
           | The only part that seems implausible here is the recycling.
        
         | esjeon wrote:
         | That's a far far future. The current AI simply can't reason
         | with the design. It's all just 2D image manipulation, and the
         | image you see might be physically impossible, let alone
         | generating the fitting sewing pattern from a simple image.
         | Perhaps, one can limit the scope of AI generation to minor
         | details, like color, pattern, printings, pockets, etc.
        
           | dannyw wrote:
           | Far far future as in 1 year?
        
             | trention wrote:
             | How much money are you willing to bet that there would be
             | an AI producing working clothing designs from prompts in 1
             | year? If it's less than your yearly salary, even you don't
             | believe this crap.
        
             | napier wrote:
             | I'd be shocked if it takes as long as a year for the first
             | neural 3D engine to be released.
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | There's considerably more conceptual distance between
               | "dalle but 3d" and "dalle but emits practical product
               | designs rather than concept art" than there is between
               | dalle and 3d dalle.
        
         | cercatrova wrote:
         | One can imagine a quite opposite scenario:
         | 
         | You wear AR glasses and can choose whatever virtual fashion you
         | want. Other people wearing glasses too can also see your
         | outfit. So you make something physical into something virtual,
         | thereby not having fast fashion at all.
        
         | esperent wrote:
         | > shipped to you by drone the next morning to wear for the day
         | and then dispose of
         | 
         | An environmental catastrophe with today's technology.
         | 
         | But if we can fix that, say make the clothes with a 3d printer
         | out of yesterday's recycled clothes, with energy from renewable
         | sources, then that sounds pretty cool actually.
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | Which means with goggles we can all wear simple cotton outfits
       | and appears fancy digitally. #ecofriendly
        
         | shredprez wrote:
         | Virtualizing consumption may be the aspect of mixed reality I'm
         | most excited about. There are plenty of goods that _have_ to be
         | physical, but many don't.
        
       | whinvik wrote:
       | There does seem to be a lot of editing work required to get this
       | working.
       | 
       | I would like to understand if there's a more automated way of
       | doing this.
        
         | jimhi wrote:
         | The most important work is done by Dalle which has no open API
         | right now. Once they open it up - there could be a way to run a
         | program on all 3. You would still have to cherry pick which
         | frames from Dalle look the nicest
        
           | synu wrote:
           | I believe (but not 100% sure) you can achieve this with
           | Stable Diffusion also, which is something you can run
           | locally.
        
             | jimhi wrote:
             | For sure but Stable Diffusion still cannot produce as
             | realistic quality as Dalle 2. Stable Diffusion also has
             | fairly weak inpainting which is what is used for the first
             | step. I am confident it will surpass Dalle 2 at some point
             | though, it has only been open sourced for ~2 weeks after
             | all.
        
               | htrp wrote:
               | does the inpainting code actually work or is it just a
               | vestigal placeholder from the last version of stable
               | diffusions release?
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | > For sure but Stable Diffusion still cannot produce as
               | realistic quality as Dalle 2.
               | 
               | I don't think that's true. Just like Gimp can be used to
               | make better results than Photoshop (or even mspaint), the
               | quality of the results is up to the artist/user, not the
               | tool itself.
               | 
               | Some SD outputs are truly amazing, but so is some DALL-E
               | 2 outputs. Maybe DALL-E 2 is easier to use for beginners,
               | but people who are good with prompts will get as good
               | output with SD as with DALL-E.
        
               | jimhi wrote:
               | I've tried about 500+ prompts on Midjourney, Stable
               | diffusion, and Dalle 2 each. It's just not there yet,
               | it's really good for creative results though.
               | 
               | I agree it might do a the job decently for a dress in
               | this instance.
        
               | Vox_Leone wrote:
               | I agree. People who will carry out this activity at a
               | high professional level in creative agencies will have to
               | deepen in the observation and study of language.
               | 
               | In addition to linguistic precision, the parameters
               | involved in prompt composition, for a perfectly
               | controlled artistic result, require technical knowledge,
               | a sense of style and historical knowledge. The more
               | related keywords involved in the composition, the greater
               | the artist's control over the final result. Example: the
               | prompt
               | 
               | _A distant futuristic city full of tall buildings inside
               | a huge transparent glass dome, In the middle of an arid
               | desert full of big dunes, Sunbeams, Artstation, Dark sky
               | full of stars with a bright sun, Massive scale, Fog, Very
               | Detailed, Cinematic, Colorful_
               | 
               | is more sophisticated than just
               | 
               | _A city full of tall buildings inside a huge transparent
               | glass dome_
               | 
               | Note that the conceptual density, hence the quality, of
               | the prompt depends heavily on the cultural and linguistic
               | background of the person composing. In fact, a quality
               | prompt is very similar to a movie scene described in a
               | script/storyboard [by the way, there go the Production
               | Designers, along with the concept artists, graphic
               | designers, set designers, costume designers, lighting
               | designers... ].
               | 
               | In an attempt to monetize the fruits of the new
               | technology, Internet entrepreneurs will be forced by the
               | invisible hand of the job market to delve deeper into
               | language skills. It will be a benign side effect, I
               | think, considering the current state of the Internet.
               | Perhaps this will lead to a better articulation of ideas
               | in the network environment.
               | 
               | Just as YouTube influencers have a knack for dealing with
               | the visual aspects of human interactions, aspiring prompt
               | engineers will have to excel at sniffing out the nuances
               | of human expression. They have great potential to be the
               | new cool professionals of the digital economy, as were
               | web designers, and later influencers -- who, with the end
               | of social networks, now tend to lose relevance.
               | 
               | To differentiate themselves, prompt engineers will have
               | to be avid readers and practitioners of
               | semiotics/semiology.
               | 
               | Umberto Eco and the structuralists may return to fashion.
               | 
               | (*) I used a prompt by Simon Willison
               | 
               | https://simonwillison.net/2022/Aug/29/stable-diffusion/
        
               | spitfire wrote:
               | > I agree. People who will carry out this activity at a
               | high professional level in creative agencies will have to
               | deepen in the observation and study of language.
               | 
               | So they have to be a character out of a William Gibson
               | novel? Do they rip the labels off their clothes too?
               | 
               | PS: This is awesome.
        
               | bergenty wrote:
               | That beats the point. If you need specialized artists and
               | know how to make this work it's useless. Might as well
               | just use photoshop then. The whole point is your grandma
               | should be able to do this herself.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | ???
               | 
               | Imagine someone saying that about Photoshop when it was
               | first introduced...
               | 
               | "Why would you even use Photoshop if so you still have
               | learn a tool in order to use it? Might as well just use a
               | canvas with colors... The whole point of Photoshop is
               | that your grandma should be able to use it!"
               | 
               | No, every tool in the world is not meant to make it zero
               | effort to do something. Some tools are meant to
               | incrementally make it easier, or even just make it less
               | effort for people who already are good at something. And
               | this is OK.
        
               | bergenty wrote:
               | It's not okay. The whole appeal of AI generated art is
               | you _don't_ need someone with skills. Photoshop is not
               | even close to an analog.
        
               | speedgoose wrote:
               | For my usage, dalle 2 is better at understanding or
               | creating pictures that are a good start. But stable
               | diffusion provides a better resolution and provides more
               | settings. I sometimes use them together.
        
               | napier wrote:
               | Inpainting comparison between Stable Diffusion and Dalle
               | 2: https://twitter.com/nicolaymausz/status/15652902829078
               | 48704
               | 
               | Have to confess I haven't been bothered to log into D2
               | since the SD beta started. Which is crazy because my mind
               | was blown when it first launched back in April, but it
               | for now seems like closed AI simply can't keep up with
               | the open source community swarm.
        
           | dannyw wrote:
           | They will never open it up. They're ClosedAI, because they're
           | a for profit company that makes money off their SaaS which
           | prohibits reverse engineering.
        
             | jimhi wrote:
             | They will open up an API yes. That is different than being
             | open sourced. Actually seems that anyone who currently has
             | access can try this:
             | https://github.com/ezzcodeezzlife/dalle2-in-python
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | Too many products/businesses use "Open" to mean "You can
               | use it if you pay" rather than "you can understand how it
               | works" or "you can look under the hood".
               | 
               | OpenAI is just another example of a typical SaaS business
               | misusing the word to make themselves seem "nicer" than
               | they are. Ultimately, it's a for-profit business and it
               | will operate as such, shouldn't surprise anybody.
        
               | htrp wrote:
               | I wish open AI actually had a SAAS model.
               | 
               | If you want a SaaS model, you should have all of the
               | things that the SAAS model supports including premium
               | pricing and enterprise tiers, OpenAI needs to get their
               | act together on DallE2 as no serious business use case
               | will use the consumer pricing and hacked together
               | unofficial apis.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | Maybe we differ in how we understand what "SaaS" really
               | is (a debate which is as old as the concept of "SaaS").
               | 
               | For me, if you offer something software-y behind payment,
               | and the software can only be accessed online, it's a
               | SaaS.
               | 
               | No need to offer premium pricing, enterprise tiers,
               | support or anything else. Putting up a online API/UI that
               | is locked behind payment, it's a SaaS (in my eyes).
        
         | synu wrote:
         | There isn't yet but my company's goal is precisely to make this
         | kind of thing accessible to everyone. I don't want to spam and
         | we haven't launched yet anyway, but there's a link in my
         | profile if interested.
         | 
         | I suspect there will be a lot of companies that build
         | businesses out of chaining models together for specific kinds
         | of users. The more you can focus on a niche, the more you can
         | paper over some of the limitations in the models.
        
       | hailpixel wrote:
       | I love that the author shows the whole workflow. It highlights
       | how much tweaking and work it takes to achieve a polished output.
       | Still amazing how easy it was to chain the networks together.
        
         | synu wrote:
         | The creativity happening around AI right now is incredible. I
         | came across this recently and was blow away:
         | https://twitter.com/xsteenbrugge/status/1558508866463219712?...
        
           | jiggawatts wrote:
           | That is spectacular! Keep in mind when watching this that the
           | technology to make this has only been available for mere
           | _weeks_ , and here's a video that would have taken months-to-
           | years to produce using traditional techniques.
           | 
           |  _True automation is coming to art._
           | 
           | Mindblowing.
        
           | hackerlight wrote:
           | https://twitter.com/TomLikesRobots/status/156567899598691123.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/remi_molettee/status/1564632028959629319
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/matthen2/status/1564192185909739521
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Infinite__Vibes/status/15650454342293340.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/thibaudz/status/1564892979789045760
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/chav_ez/status/1565806042344087552
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/zippy731/status/1564616100477820938
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/RonnyKhalil/status/1565024524181159941
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/remi_molettee/status/1565356181190807553
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/remi_molettee/status/1563187170734927872
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/replicatehq/status/1564354673108127744
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/genekogan/status/1564626995979370505
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/ala_art_lab/status/1565984951178346496
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/DrewMedina20/status/1565746320953966592
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Aiartitune/status/1565795049102786560
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Aiartitune/status/1563651144806645760
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/ala_art_lab/status/1565603328003870720
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/pharmapsychotic/status/15642809223625973.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Aiartitune/status/1563832168119517186
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/socalpathy/status/1565899540451966977
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/zippy731/status/1565342075196870656
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/makeitrad1/status/1563335226524282882
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/mrflosunday/status/1565885053753761792
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/TomLikesRobots/status/156488734249359769.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/EuclideanPlane/status/156421740831482675.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/erocdrahs/status/1565320455162044417
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Carl_Ingram_art/status/15630745562893967.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/benscottpye/status/1565352548608778242
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/MichaelCarychao/status/15645904797940613.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/AiJoe_eth/status/1564221320916779011
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Carl_Ingram_art/status/15646973666696273.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/ChekhovEugene/status/1565880769477738497
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/originalmaderix/status/15656282243520552.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Aiartitune/status/1564177213888643072
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Infinite__Vibes/status/15646387276616581.
           | ..
        
             | synu wrote:
             | Nice collection!
        
             | orbital-decay wrote:
             | Still needs temporal stability to transfer a prompt-
             | generated style onto a video. I wonder if it can be
             | combined with something like this
             | 
             | https://isl-org.github.io/PhotorealismEnhancement/
        
             | jonplackett wrote:
             | woah, thanks for the links!
        
             | baxtr wrote:
             | Thanks for sharing. They somehow remind me of the VGA
             | computer art animations of the 90s. Fond memories.
             | 
             | Couldn't find any links on YT. Please share if anyone has
             | them.
        
               | xenospn wrote:
               | Old enough to get the reference!
        
             | lhoff wrote:
             | Really impressive, thanks for the links.
             | 
             | Has someone a good intro to stable diffusion for someone
             | who doesn't know a lot about AI?
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
        
       | cerol wrote:
       | Part of me thinks "this is really cool, it's all moving really
       | fast", but the other part of me thinks "this is moving too fast,
       | aren't people missing something?".
       | 
       | It feels like everyone's so desperate to create or predict the
       | next AI unicorn, that no one's paying attention to the
       | fundamentals. Gives me weird dotcom bubble vibes.
       | 
       | I still cannot see how this can fundamentally change the fashion
       | industry. Fashion is not about design, it's about generating
       | desire to buy. You hire models and influencers to showcase your
       | items, so people think they can be just like them, you just have
       | buy the same piece of clothing. AI doesn't change that. You could
       | totally have a niche for AI-generated clothing, but that's it.
       | 
       | Besides, clothes are a physical item. AI can automate the
       | generation of a "blueprint", but it is still heavily constrained
       | by the physical result. It would be mostly hit and miss. Feels
       | more efficient to have designer use their experience to create
       | sketches that would actually look good in real life.
       | 
       | All in all, I am amazed as much as I am skeptical of the entire
       | synthetic art revolution going on. It's been what? A month? It's
       | too soon. Aren't we jumping the gun?
       | 
       | Whatever happened to boring opinions? "Hmm that's amazing, but
       | we'll see what happens, it's too soon". I'm yet to be convinced
       | of how, beyond being an overall better tool, synthetic art will
       | fundamentally change businesses.
        
         | spyder wrote:
         | _" You hire models and influencers"_
         | 
         | The influencers can also be generated by AI (or even just 3D
         | modelling), since so much of the marketing is digital. And it's
         | already happening (mostly in asian countries):
         | 
         | https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/ai-created-influencer-...
         | 
         | These videos are just demonstarting the concept design part
         | created by something not even designed for this specific use
         | case. It's true that making a product from a concept design is
         | another problem. But it's not hard to imagine that AI could be
         | trained specifically for this on actual design plans and using
         | physically accurate cloth simulation in the training loop to
         | generate something that could be actually built. After all if
         | AI can improve protein folding predictions why not cloth
         | folding :). (OK, it' not completely the same but both are about
         | 3D structure).
         | 
         | We already have some pretty good sub-millimeter level cloth
         | simulations (not using AI but could help AI):
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrdkyv0yXxY
         | 
         | And of course people are excited when they have a new tool they
         | can use, they try to find more usecases for it and some will
         | work out some not. In this case they even have the open-source
         | blueprint for the tool so they can finetune it for their own
         | ideas.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | There are issues with this, though.
           | 
           | One big issue is that big companies already with some
           | regularity rip off boutique designs and then undercut them.
           | Big data and harnessing AI will mostly make that situation
           | worse.
           | 
           | Examples from Shein, a Chinese fast fashion retailer that
           | already uses strategies like this: https://www.dazeddigital.c
           | om/fashion/article/55146/1/shein-f...
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | I think you're reading too much into it. It's just a cool
         | application of changing clothes in videos.
         | 
         | Nobody presented it as changing the fashion industry. It's
         | generating new outfits in a video, and that's _super_ cool.
         | 
         | I don't think anybody's moving too fast or missing fundamentals
         | here, at least not yet. This is all brand-new, so people are
         | just having a fun time exploring.
        
           | tomxor wrote:
           | Yup, i don't think this even applies to fashion, after all
           | it's just reconstituted fashion.
           | 
           | The most obvious application of this is to replace, augment
           | or make more economic live action computer graphics
           | techniques.
           | 
           | That could actually be pretty interesting though, liberating
           | even, because it would open up a previously incredibly
           | expensive field... giving more access to compete with CG
           | previously only available to high budget hollywood. Imagine
           | if manipulating a live action scene was as easy as dropping
           | some descriptions into some program and paying for a little
           | compute.
        
             | bawolff wrote:
             | The other application that comes to mind is some online
             | shopping virtual outfit try on.
        
         | andreilys wrote:
         | _It feels like everyone 's so desperate to create or predict
         | the next AI unicorn, that no one's paying attention to the
         | fundamentals._
         | 
         | What exactly are the fundamentals?
         | 
         | The transformer revolution is pretty foundational and the
         | inability to see the societal impact of this technology can
         | only be explained by a lack of imagination.
         | 
         | Majority of peoples time is spent in digital worlds, the
         | ability to create synthetic images, text, etc. is going to
         | radically alter the way we spend our time online. Both
         | malicious and marvelous use cases will be discovered, but to
         | hand-wave it all away as a "Dotcom bubble vibe" is tech
         | cynicism at its worst.
        
       | yreg wrote:
       | NoMoreBro here on HN is also generating fashion pieces:
       | https://unshush.com/
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | Fashion is mostly a scam. The idea that people - especially, but
       | not just - women are supposed to replace their wardrobe (*)
       | frequently, and that the items in their wardrobe need not last,
       | induces artificial consumer demand, diverting social resources -
       | especially those distributed among the masses - from more useful
       | endeavors (social or private), and is environmentally wasteful.
       | 
       | So, my non-artificial intelligence has generated the following
       | new fashion: Last year's.
       | 
       | (*) - Note I'm not saying change clothes on themselves, but the
       | set of clothes they own/use.
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | AI images are rapidly becoming just like clip art and stock
       | photos: i.e. you can, with some training, recognize the signs.
       | And, just like clip art and stock photos, you _should_ recognize
       | when an image is used without much effort, since it is probably
       | not additive to the context of whatever media it is embedded in,
       | and can be safely ignored.
        
         | cerol wrote:
         | It might sound unrelated, but many years ago I moved to Europe,
         | coming from a South American country. Having spent many years
         | "at home", I never bothered much with how _we looked like_ ,
         | physical features that you could say stereotypical. But then I
         | moved to Europe, and suddenly I could spot people from my
         | country from miles away. After years and many places travelled,
         | I still cannot describe in words what we look like, but I know
         | it when I see. It's a gut feeling.
         | 
         | At least with the photorealistic prompts, there is always this
         | feeling of "this doesn't look right". Right now it's easy to
         | pinpoint what it is. Usually is a completed distorted face. But
         | they might get better at this. But probably there will always
         | be that "uneasy feeling".
        
       | devmunchies wrote:
       | I worked at an ai startup that was trying to generate products to
       | sell. The AI engineers didn't understand that the image isn't
       | useful, but only good for judging whether the design looks good.
       | It needs to spit out json schematics for the product in a way a
       | specific manufacturer can understand.
       | 
       | There's also the problem that AI can't be specific. I can't
       | design merch with a specific video game logo or band name. The
       | output always has that "AI dream residue".
       | 
       | This is a useful tool only for creative inspiration.
        
         | Wistar wrote:
         | Perhaps AI text-to-STL file, ready for 3D printing prototypes?
        
       | Scootwilli90 wrote:
        
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