[HN Gopher] Our screwdriver took three years [video]
___________________________________________________________________
Our screwdriver took three years [video]
Author : zepolen
Score : 235 points
Date : 2022-09-01 07:54 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| causality0 wrote:
| As someone who spends a good portion of his workday using
| screwdrivers on industrial equipment and computers, I still don't
| understand why you'd want a ratcheting one.
| bin_bash wrote:
| I agree, but for small fasteners the palm-saver cap in the
| megapro screwdriver I have is great:
| https://megaprotools.com/pages/the-megapro-advantage
|
| It doesn't ratchet. It's basically just a bearing so you can
| push down on the top and the rest of the screwdriver can move
| freely--hard to explain I suppose.
| SulphurSmell wrote:
| I am with you. Been messing with tools my entire life...have
| tried ratcheting screwdrivers of several kinds...Hard no. If I
| do lots of screws, I use a drill or impact driver. Or, failing
| that a nice 1/4 or 3/8 ratchet wrench with the appropriate
| adaptor + bit.
| pwg wrote:
| I've had a Snap-On SSDMR4B0 [1] for at least 25 years now. The
| usefulness of the ratchet is hard to describe, but easy to
| recognize after using one for the purpose of driving/removing
| screws. One big benefit, which only really reveals with longer
| screws, is the ability to drive or remove much more quickly
| than a non-ratchet type screwdriver. Also, the benefit is much
| more recognizable driving screws with significant resistance
| (i.e. wood screws into hard wood, or concrete screws into
| concrete or cinder-block). You can keep pressure on the screw,
| and just rotate the handle back and forth to drive in/remove
| the screw, reducing the chance of stripping out the screw head
| by releasing pressure to turn your hand or turn the
| screwdriver.
|
| If you have ever used a ratchet wrench for nuts or bolts vs. an
| open-end or box wrench, the difference between the ratchet
| screwdriver and a regular one is much the same as the
| difference between using a ratchet wrench vs. an open-end/box
| wrench to tighten/loosen a nut or bolt.
|
| The ratchet in their screwdriver, from the video, has a ratchet
| sound very similar to the Snap-On model I have.
|
| [1] Current version: https://shop.snapon.com/product/Standard-
| Handle/8-3-4%22-Rat...
| sokoloff wrote:
| I have the same one (different color) that I got as part of a
| larger purchase of secondhand SnapOn tools. I probably
| wouldn't have initially laid out $75 [or even $40] for it,
| but after getting it as part of a package deal, I find it a
| lot more useful than I thought.
|
| It seems similar to the "why do precision screwdrivers have
| that spinny part on the back?"
| magicalhippo wrote:
| I highly prefer a ratcheting screwdriver if I have to remove a
| stubborn philips or pozidriv screw, especially if the screw is
| not directly accessible or there's limited space for my hand.
|
| This allows me to keep a good grip and the pressure on the
| screw all the time, ensuring the screwdriver head doesn't slip
| out of position.
|
| I also find it faster to just twist the shaft of the
| screwdriver once the screw is loose, something which I find
| easier with a ratcheting screwdriver (many have a knurled
| section on the shaft for this).
|
| And a good ratcheting screwdriver allows you to lock the
| mechanism, so you have the best of both worlds.
| mrweasel wrote:
| The locking mechanism is really where many cheap screwdrivers
| fail. If it's to easy to hit, or doesn't lock cleanly in
| place, it can be pretty annoying.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| Fair point, if the alternative is between a plain and a
| cheap ratcheting screwdriver, I'd probably go with the
| plain one. But I've bought a few "mid-range" ratcheting
| screwdrivers and I've found them very useful.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| This is one thing I'm keen on testing. I bought a PB Swiss
| driver to compare, and the ratchet on it is a huge
| improvement over every other ratcheting driver I've used.
|
| I never really liked ratcheting drivers but I might make an
| exception for the PB Swiss (jury's out on the LTT driver).
| It feels like a real screwdriver when you lock the ratchet.
| denton-scratch wrote:
| My ratchet driver is Stanley. It's about 15 years old, and
| it has no faults, other than being too fat for some jobs;
| the shaft has a sort of rolodex for bits built-in, and it
| can get in the way. I don't think Stanley make this driver
| any more (Stanley are not the toolmaker they used to be).
| robocat wrote:
| Black & Decker bought Stanley in 2010 to become Stanley
| Black & Decker. They then started becoming an umbrella
| company, buying many other existing brands such as
| Craftsman and DeWalt.
|
| It is hard to trust a "brand" any more. From 2017 there
| is a great summary of brand ownership here: https://www.p
| opularmechanics.com/technology/gear/a28359/mega...
|
| The consolation of design and manufacturing has lead to
| some quality problems for existing hand and power tool
| brands.
| rwmj wrote:
| What's wrong with ratcheting screwdrivers? I don't use
| screwdrivers every day, but my cheap[1] ratcheting screwdriver
| seems to work fine.
|
| [1] Literally free, I was given it at some conference.
| mrweasel wrote:
| I want, and have, both a ratcheting screwdriver and a "normal"
| one. For screws that a hard to reach, I don't want to lift the
| screwdriver between turns. There are certainly cases with
| tricky screws where a normal screwdriver is much more
| convenient. It really depends on what I'm doing.
| GarrickDrgn wrote:
| It really is a matter of convenience. Linus's work is obviously
| mostly with computers and servers, where you often work in
| tighter spaces; not having to reposition your whole hand
| (and/or pull the screwdriver out of the screw and reposition it
| because of a lack of space) is a nice convenience. Plus, most
| computer screws are not really tightened very much, so you'll
| be done with a few flicks of your wrist. He also explicitly
| mentions he uses the ratchet by turning only the axle and
| keeping the handle steady in his hand for a lot of the screws.
| smcl wrote:
| I'm not sure I understand the reposition-your-hand thing. If
| you're turning the screwdriver you either continuously
| manipulate it with your fingers or keep rotating your wrist
| back and forth _regardless_ of whether you have a normal or
| ratcheted one. Only difference being in the ratcheted one you
| don 't have to release the grip on the screwdriver (and in
| non-ratcheted you just have to not grip tightly). And if the
| screws aren't tightened too much - like in a PC - then you'd
| need a really light ratchet action for it to be of any use.
|
| I guess it's just a personal preference thing rather than a
| real _need_ of some sort, which IMO is fair enough
| BrandoElFollito wrote:
| I use a screwdriver when I have to (so I am a level 0
| expert) but at some point you have to release your grip on
| the screwdriver and therefore need a way to keep it engaged
| in the screw (except if you reposition it at every 1/4 of
| turn).
|
| This can be annoying (it is always for me) and a mechanism
| where you can arm the next 1/4 turn without disengaging the
| screw is great
|
| PS. when I say 1/4 of a turn, this is to to indicate the
| torsion of the wrist. Could be more, could be less
| brailsafe wrote:
| Seems like it would be the same reason as any, keeping the
| driver in place.
| viraptor wrote:
| > or keep rotating your wrist back and forth regardless of
| whether you have a normal or ratcheted one
|
| What goes away with the ratchet is the continuous
| clench/unclench action. While I don't normally have any
| other RSI-like issues, that movement just kills my wrist
| after 1 or 2 screws. I've got a ratchet screwdriver with an
| option to twist/bend it in the middle to get better
| leverage and the difference is amazing.
| TimMeade wrote:
| Sometimes you can't see the screw in computer racks. If you
| have to pull the screwdriver off even so slightly it might
| be difficult to get back on the screw head. Ratcheting
| negates this slight issue.
| smcl wrote:
| I've not encountered this, though maybe I've been lucky
| enough to only need to handle screws that I can easily
| keep a bit of pressure on while (idk the right term)
| "resetting" my fingers/wrist to keep [un]screwing.
| Daub wrote:
| > He also explicitly mentions he uses the ratchet by turning
| only the axle and keeping the handle steady in his hand for a
| lot of the screws.
|
| This is shown in action at this point in the video:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K5Gqp1cEcM&t=606s
|
| In many ways, this mimics the function of a jewelers
| screwdriver:
|
| https://www.victornet.com/milpixpics/1315_GEN-SPC-100.jpg
| bombcar wrote:
| Much of my use of ratcheting screwdrivers has been replaced by
| power tool screwdrivers.
|
| If you know how to juice it, you can do amazing things with a
| bit driver, especially since you can put a _lot_ of force to
| keep the bit set and still get it to turn.
| linsomniac wrote:
| Last year I got a very similar looking Channellock that
| WireCutter recommended and I've really despised a few things
| about it:
|
| The bits are not retained by magnet, but by a bit-mounted sprung
| ball bearing. If I don't push the bit in hard enough, it'll just
| fall right out when I turn it over. It's like that comedy bit:
| "What time is it?" when someone is holding a drink in their watch
| hand.
|
| This probably is what led to the #2 Phillips bit being lost the
| first week I had it when my kids borrowed it to unscrew something
| in the yard, but that first week was pretty glorious...
|
| And the bits are surprisingly hard to find. Searches on Amazon
| have turned up few if any replacements, and it doesn't seem like
| Channellock has a replacement bit set.
|
| Finally, the ratchet mechanism is surprisingly easy to flip while
| using it, so most sessions I have with it I end up having to
| reset the ratcheting one or more times in regular use.
|
| Admittedly, Linus talks up how much they worked on getting it
| just right, but I'd be reluctant to get another driver that used
| the ball bearing bits. I'd go with something that has replacement
| bits available, or uses the same bits that my power driver uses,
| because I always keep bits for it around.
|
| I hate flat screwdrivers with a passion, but that one AvE made
| years ago is sure a thing of beauty:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shnpPFQAugU
| rowanG077 wrote:
| I don't think they use ball bearing bits.
| numlock86 wrote:
| Linus Trust Tips pulling off another "Trust me, bro!"-warranty
| here or did they do it properly this time?
| TradingPlaces wrote:
| This is why Apple spends so much time making new products and
| puts such emphasis on secrecy. All the details matter.
| abestic9 wrote:
| Project Farm, a YouTube creator that faces various brands of
| tools off against each other, has purchased an early (but
| apparently production) release of one of these. In a recent
| comment on one of his videos he's stated he aims to have a video
| of ratcheting screwdrivers including this one out in a few days.
|
| I'm optimistic given the attention to detail portrayed in this
| video, and the fact that Linus displays a passion for quality
| workmanship in his reviews of other products.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Even without many third party reviews, they've sold through
| 60,000 drivers (and counting) in less than two days. Seems like
| plenty of people are already taking them for their word, or
| just want to show support for the channel.
| jccalhoun wrote:
| They have been talking about the screwdriver for a long time.
| I'm tempted to buy one because I have been following the
| development but I'll wait for Project Farm to render a
| verdict on it before I buy it.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| LTT has a lot of goodwill. The brand is managed incredibly
| well and feels consistently personal, honest and authentic.
|
| Probably a lot of people that just want them to do well in
| what they do. If you get a decent screwdriver out of it,
| that's nice I guess.
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| And this is not a bad thing.
| graton wrote:
| True. But they did hurt some of that goodwill with the
| "Trust Me Bro Warranty" in regards to the $250 backpack
| they sell.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdxVtAiYeL0
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsX3tUA-wJk
| compsciphd wrote:
| eh. the warranty that they have now issued is less than
| what the level they want. so people still want to trust
| them to "underpromise and over deliver" as they say. I'm
| not convinced it really hurt them.
| isatty wrote:
| Project Farm makes amazing videos.
| dimator wrote:
| unrelated: the depth of the YouTube channel library is simply
| staggering. it amazes me to uncover channels that i
| absolutely would have subscribed to on day-0 if i had known
| them.
|
| at the same time, youtube is really bad at exposing you to
| new _channels_ that you would enjoy. they bombard you with
| similar _videos_ ( "here's 15 more toilet seat review videos
| for you!") but they're not able to extrapolate channel tastes
| for some reason. it's left largely up to the user to dig
| around for collaterally-themed channels.
| NCC1701DEngage wrote:
| >at the same time, youtube is really bad at exposing you to
| new channels that you would enjoy. they bombard you with
| similar videos ("here's 15 more toilet seat review videos
| for you!") but they're not able to extrapolate channel
| tastes for some reason. it's left largely up to the user to
| dig around for collaterally-themed channels.
|
| This is exactly why I am working on a team to create
| alternative YouTube recommendations. Our algorithm is
| designed to surface smaller more obscure but relevant
| channels.
|
| Search a channel to get a list of channels making similar
| content. Our recommendations for Project Farm include other
| tool review channels like A Concord Carpenter / Toolboxbuzz
| and Thrifty Tool Shed. Click through to A Concord
| Carpenter's list of similar channels also reveals Tools &
| Stuff. Thrifty Tool Shed is a great example of a very small
| yet relevant channel that the algorithm surfaces (~15k
| subscribers).
|
| Our list of channels similar to Project Farm:
|
| https://channelgalaxy.com/id%3DUC2rzsm1Qi6N1X-wuOg_p0Ng/
|
| Of course there are dozens more channels on PF's list that
| are about more general carpentry, metalsmithing, and home-
| engineering projects. And you can use the search bar at the
| top of the page to search any other channels you watch to
| get their similar channels lists.
| 51Cards wrote:
| I do love his videos though I find them a little rapid fire
| and after awhile I loose track of what is what. His testing
| methodlogy is pretty thorough and practical but wish he could
| change the presentation format a little. That said it is such
| a firehose of details that I don't have any suggestions on
| how he would do that. I just find it overwhelming to keep
| track of each product through the test cycles. Maybe it just
| needs a better summary at the end.
| ars wrote:
| I also love his videos, but I find them a bit long so I
| play them at 2X speed.
|
| He usually puts a graph at the end of each segment to help
| you remember how each brand tested.
| causi wrote:
| Yes, if he showed summary spreadsheets at the end I
| wouldn't have to watch the video with a pen and notepad and
| my finger hovering over the pause button. I wish they would
| update his wiki again.
| sharedfrog wrote:
| He's been doing that for a while now?
| isatty wrote:
| I guess I'm just one of those people that appreciate the no
| nonsense rapid fire format. I don't have to watch his
| videos at 1.5x :^)
| jansan wrote:
| There are "continous" ratchet screwdrivers out there. I just
| purchased one out of curiosity, just to see how they work.
| Reviews are very positive, and the same tool seems to be sold
| unter multiple brand names like "Inbus Flow", "Stier ratchet
| driver". Cannot find an English webpage, though:
|
| https://www.contorion.de/p/stier-schraubendreher-mit-bit-mag...
| what-imright wrote:
| Three years to make a screwdriver. That says it all
| ghosty141 wrote:
| No it doesnt. Have you ever developed any product?
| some_random wrote:
| Absolutely killed by the way the ad has an ad at the beginning
| CivBase wrote:
| If that got you, you might like their April Fools video that is
| nothing but ads.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slwai2Jhy_A
| seqastian wrote:
| Because it's the first time they made a tool and found out it's
| hard as they went.
| CarVac wrote:
| There's a reason that ratchets _all_ have the control turn the
| opposite way: so that if it rubs against something as you operate
| it, it won 't reverse accidentally.
|
| Linus broke the convention just because he wanted to... it's just
| as bad as that awful "natural scrolling" that plagues laptops
| these days.
| luma wrote:
| Also, you turn the handle in the desired direction of rotation
| while holding the lock ring. LTT has decided that the ring is
| what's important, not the handle you are turning.
|
| I disagree but good on LTT for making something they want to
| use. I'll stick with my Megapro.
| jaimehrubiks wrote:
| This makes a lot of sense.
| caseyohara wrote:
| Natural scrolling makes a lot of sense if you think of the
| trackpad as a proxy for a touchscreen, it certainly feels more
| natural to me. Not so much on a mouse wheel.
| Scalene2 wrote:
| They don't all follow that convention. There was one mentioned
| in the video that doesn't.
| JadoJodo wrote:
| I think GP was saying that "all" ratchets (including the one
| mentioned in the video) have it go one-way to avoid
| accidentally toggling the direction if you rub it against
| something (e.g., if you put it in a tight space and bump it
| against the side as you turn it).
| 3pm wrote:
| Aside from Wera and Wiha, would be interesting if someone did a
| comparison with a PB Swiss. More expensive and harder to get in
| US, but should be very high quality: https://www.amazon.com/PB-
| Swiss-Tools-8510R-30-Twister/dp/B0...
| geerlingguy wrote:
| I will be testing that driver specifically, just waiting for
| the LTT driver to ship. Hopefully Project Farm has one on hand
| too. The PB Swiss has the best ratchet feel by far, though it's
| a little tight--that's one thing Linus was adamant about on
| theirs, making it just loose enough that you can easily ratchet
| the blade with your fingers to tighten without rotating the
| entire driver.
| immmmmm wrote:
| yes swiss tools are amazing, at least the single function ones.
|
| disclaimer: im swiss.
| designcode wrote:
| Imagine because they're first time product designers.
| Havoc wrote:
| They've been making merch for years, just perhaps nothing of
| comparable mechanical complexity
| shapefrog wrote:
| tshirts / hoodies != custom designed mechanical item with
| many moving parts.
| DrudgeCorporate wrote:
| Their engineer that they hired specifically for this task
| had years of previous experience. It's stated in the video.
| [deleted]
| tpmx wrote:
| This is one of those threads where you find the correct answer
| at the bottom.
| bigyikes wrote:
| The primary employee responsible for the screwdriver seemed to
| be a production engineer with 10 years experience. I'm also
| aware of experienced product designers they employ. Linus
| himself has product management experience, and probably employs
| some PMs too.
| tpmx wrote:
| > The primary employee responsible for the screwdriver seemed
| to be a production engineer with 10 years experience.
|
| The first primary employee responsible for the screwdriver
| was the affable but very young Alex ("I know SolidWorks"). I
| like his car review videos!
|
| Then towards the like the last third of the project lifecycle
| they hired this guy with a decade of experience, but wasn't
| it mostly in EE?
|
| > Linus himself has product management experience
|
| In a PC hardware reseller company. That's about making
| decisions about what products to buy/stock, not about
| designing/building something. Quite different. He's most
| likely aware of the difference, but was still using that
| phrasing in the video. _shrug_.
| dt3ft wrote:
| Looks rather bulky for a screwdriver. Kudos on launching, hope
| they can at least make the cost that was sunk on the injection
| molds.
| chunkles wrote:
| Out of curiosity, did you watch the video or just look at the
| title image and make a call on the size? They actually spend a
| portion of the video discussing the size and how it is smaller
| than other ratcheting screwdrivers on the market specifically
| to fit well in all hand sizes.
| zibby8 wrote:
| It's not just the ratchet that is bulky. It's the shaft that
| is bulky as well, which is necessary to accommodate the bit
| at the end. I inherited a screwdriver with this type of
| shaft, and it just doesn't work for a lot of screws due to
| clearance issues. As a result, I have a set of normal
| screwdrivers, which makes the one with changeable bits
| totally redundant for all but the most esoteric bits.
| dt3ft wrote:
| I did, both the video and the pictures on their website. It
| is too bulky for my taste, sizably larger than what people
| tend to use here in Europe. It must also be heavier, due to
| it housing the metal inserts. But then again, I'm probably
| not their target market. It's a niche product.
| jaclaz wrote:
| Yes, but I wonder _which_ niche.
|
| The 1/4" socket and shaft is bulky (as well as the handle)
| and the ratcheting is largely unneeded, a good set of
| screwdrivers, unless there is a portability issue, is much
| more practical in a workshop.
| bombcar wrote:
| The bulky part that worries me (and is why I don't use "bit
| drivers" usually) is right at the tip - it gets wider within an
| inch of the screw, which can be highly annoying.
|
| I prefer the "longer bit" drivers that you can find (Milwaukee
| 48-22-2131 for example) but the best drivers in my experience
| are the screwdrivers with really long thin shanks.
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| They've now sold around 60k of them before even one reached
| customer. They'll be fine.
| kmeisthax wrote:
| They had a pop-up shop in Vancouver about a week ago or so
| where people could try them out in person and buy them. This
| was right before online sales, and Linus did this
| specifically so that he could...
|
| - Have independent opinions of the product on the website
|
| - Avoid "kickstarter syndrome" (since they have to have mass-
| production ready before selling them this way)
| bongobingo1 wrote:
| Depends how it holds up and what their warranty program is
| like.
| compsciphd wrote:
| "trust me bro" :)
| cercatrova wrote:
| Is there a written warranty? They faced a lot of criticism for
| their backpack which didn't and the response from Linus was akin
| to "just trust me bro," which, when called out on, they made a
| t-shirt out of. Left me thinking that response was in very poor
| taste, making fun of your own customers' hesitations.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| Linus' whole point about warranties is that they're only as
| trustworthy as the manufacturer is.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Except that's not even remotely true and he's wrong. The
| whole point of a written warranty is that it carries the
| force of the law behind it. I don't have to trust a business
| to "make things right" to attempt to get satisfaction based
| on a warranty.
|
| His other point about "not wanting to leave a burden to his
| family" is also bunk. If your business has a bus factor of 1,
| that's on you, that's your fault, and you can fix that. Never
| mind that most business laws work out to remove personal
| liability from business liability.
|
| He seemed to take it personally that people wanted written
| assurance that their $250!!! backpack could be fixed, despite
| the fact that he is on record, on the WAN show, talking about
| how Linus Media Group and Linus Sebastian are different
| entities with different priorities and often different
| desires about what to do in a situation. Even Luke thought he
| was going too far with his view and opinion on the matter.
|
| Thankfully Linus seems like a reasonable person who is
| willing to do the right thing even if he doesn't personally
| agree with it, and they now offer a written warranty.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| If a company really wanted to, it could dissolve itself and
| the owners disappear. Even if you wanted to force a company
| to hold up its warranty you'd have to sue them, and who
| would do that for a $250 backpack? That is what Linus was
| trying to say.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| So what? I don't care what a business _could_ do to
| _attempt_ to violate my warranty rights, I care that I
| have my rights and can seek justice if they 've been
| breached. Things are just sooooo much easier to deal with
| when established warranty law is followed.
|
| There is no valid argument for "I don't want my customers
| to have warranty rights".
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Yes, on their product page it has a "LTT Screwdriver Limited
| Lifetime Warranty" that you can click to expand and read.
| kalleboo wrote:
| It's pretty impressive how they've sold 60,000 $70 screwdrivers
| in under 48 hours
| BeefWellington wrote:
| The power of branding at work.
| jansan wrote:
| Especially since you can buy a comparable product from Amazon
| Basics for 14EUR
|
| https://www.amazon.de/AmazonBasics-12-in-1-Magnetic-Ratchet-...
| jgoewert wrote:
| I could grab a handful of leaves of a tree and shove it in my
| face hole for lunch. It would be cheaper, but I prefer a
| salad made of lettuce.
| jaclaz wrote:
| I think it would be nice to put up an official (or unofficial)
| registry for owners of this tool, they should put a serial
| number on it, to be able to track them.
|
| Besides the fact that IMHO a ratchet screwdriver (or more
| generally 1/4" bits ones) seems like very ill suited for
| working on computers (too bulky) usually screws on this kind of
| equipment are rarely very tightened and almost never (unlike in
| automotive/motorbike/industrial work) dirty/rusted/blocked, so
| chances of ruining _any_ - if not el-cheapo, "decent" - normal
| ratchet screwdriver (or its bits) is near to 0.
|
| But if Wurth sells(?) one for US$ 116.60:
|
| https://www.wurthusa.com/Tools/Hand-Tools/Screwdrivers/Assor...
|
| at around 70 bucks this one is a steal. /s
| flopit wrote:
| plus 23,000 $250 backpacks in the last few weeks
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| Is that expensive because it's a way to support the channel
| or is it a really nice backpack?
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Mostly the latter.
|
| Or at least, it has really high design goals and is
| expensive to produce.
| brailsafe wrote:
| That's a lot of coin!
| whoibrar wrote:
| I wish more companies made videos like this.
| Fnoord wrote:
| I got passed the sponsor (had to laugh at the greed), got quite
| bored, and lost my attention span at about 5 min in. Just give
| me the information in a summary already instead of all the
| blablabla around it. Its like this all too often with videos.
| They don't get to the point, and refuse to provide a summary.
| cercatrova wrote:
| Use SponsorBlock, it skips ads and non useful content
| automatically.
| alias_neo wrote:
| On the contrary, I loved this video going into the details of
| the process.
|
| I'm an engineer, and a huge nerd though, and I've always
| hated ratcheting screwdrivers with a passion for the poor
| quality.
|
| I can't wait to try out one of these, if for nothing more
| than to pay for the LTT entertainment/content I enjoy.
| Fnoord wrote:
| All I did was ask for a summary. Then those who want can go
| into detail, and those who first want to read a summary
| (which used to be quite normal when you read e.g. a news
| article) only read that, or decide afterwards if they want
| to read further.
|
| Another commentator provided the summary [1], the feature
| set is available in text supported by pictures at the
| second half of this page (you can skip the first ~50% of
| the page if you want to read the summary).
|
| [1] https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| You didn't just ask for a summary. You strongly
| criticized the video for not _also_ being a summary,
| which is very much barking up the wrong tree.
| 4ggr0 wrote:
| This exact URL is also in the description of the video.
| Fnoord wrote:
| Hidden, rather, (in an advertising URL) and between all
| the spam I'm not interested in and which I tend to not
| read because of low signal to noise ratio.
|
| They could've opted to not include all that spam for a
| video where instead of someone else's they sell their own
| product, but no.
|
| The URL was also not marked as containing a summary, btw,
| and it wasn't on top. Why not? Because they wanted you to
| read their silly advertisement first.
| [deleted]
| ilogik wrote:
| here you go: https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver
|
| it even has pictures!!!
| omega3 wrote:
| For the same price you could get a Wera screwdriver, small
| screwdrivers and a bottle opener.
|
| https://products.wera.de/en/kraftform_kompakt_kraftform_komp...
|
| https://products.wera.de/en/screwdrivers_series_kraftform_mi...
|
| https://products.wera.de/en/tools_for_bicycles_and_e-bikes_f...
| rhinoceraptor wrote:
| I have the Wera ratcheting driver, and I don't really like it
| that much. The shaft is pretty wobbly from the handle, and
| there's a ton of slop when you have it locked and not
| ratcheting.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Surprisingly even a $16 Doyle driver from Harbor Freight has
| less slop in its ratcheting mechanism. Overall the Wera feels
| very nice but its ratchet isn't great.
| rhinoceraptor wrote:
| I'm also wary of tools with any kind of rubber overmolded
| handles. That rubber is going to break down after about 10
| years, it will be sticky and you'll smell the butyric acid
| vomit smell. I've remember seeing a video of a 15 year old
| Wera driver with that issue.
| serf wrote:
| I own 20 year old overmolded Wera drivers that look a
| million times better than hard plastic Snap-On
| equivalents.
|
| Not all over-molded things use rubbers that'll break down
| quickly; and some don't even use rubber at all now that
| there are performant urethanes and other choices in the
| arena.
| [deleted]
| exhilaration wrote:
| A cursory Google search suggests all of their manufacturing is
| done in Germany, the Czech Republic, and Taiwan -- is that
| right?
| bombcar wrote:
| That is correct. Wera are often considered "top tier" in the
| screwdriver arena.
| tomcam wrote:
| I just like knowing that there's a screwdriver arena
| greycol wrote:
| Their bottle opener is great, I spent a while looking for a
| decent one and ended up with it without knowing the wera brand
| beforehand. I'm not joking when I say I've bough some of their
| tools because the bottleopener was such good quality.
| 2rsf wrote:
| I can confirm, without knowing the name I bought one of their
| sets and it was the first time I enjoyed using screwdrivers
| without cursing
| walrus01 wrote:
| Or Wiha, which is also a very reputable German-manufactured
| steel hand tool company. Similarly named to Wera but a
| competitor.
|
| https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=wiha+scre...
|
| they make some excellent torx, security torx, hex, precision
| screwdriver sets. in addition to the larger stuff they make for
| 600/1000V insulated electrical use.
| kabes wrote:
| And Wiha actually came out better than Wera in some project
| farm tests. After I went all in on wera screwdrivers and
| bits. Even though I rarely need them, it hurts.
| nyanpasu64 wrote:
| Personal story, I ordered
| https://www.wihatools.com/products/precision-phillips-
| screwd.... On the plus side, the Phillips screwdrivers are
| hardened and almost impervious to camming out/slipping (but
| can still strip on bad screws if you don't apply any
| pressure), unlike my cheap Amazon screwdriver kit which
| chewed up Phillips screws for a living. On the downside, the
| PH0 screwdriver's endcap wasn't spinning freely (until I cut
| a bigger gap and it spun freely but had increased plastic-on-
| plastic friction when I pressed down on the screwdriver), and
| I went through support to get a replacement PH0 screwdriver;
| I'm not sure whether to feel better or worse about the
| company. Shape-wise, the screwdrivers are _not_ suited for
| applying large amounts of torque, but that 's not a design
| defect but a result of being precision screwdrivers and the
| shape chosen. Next time I might try a Wera screwdriver, or an
| iFixit kit (https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Tools/Minnow-Driver-
| Kit/IF145-4... is the cheapest multi-bit kit but not the most
| popular one).
|
| I wish electronics were built with Torx screws. Those are
| practically impervious to stripping if fully inserted, even
| with the cheapest steel possible (though cheap steel drivers
| can probably still deform and strip). I've heard mixed things
| about using JIS (looks like Phillips, isn't Phillips)
| screwdrivers on Phillips screws, and good things about using
| them in JIS screws.
| walrus01 wrote:
| are you quite sure you weren't trying to use a pozidriv bit
| in philips screws/bolts, or vice versa?
| dsego wrote:
| Or something like this socket wrench set, the screwdriver
| handle with a T-bar comes in handy.
|
| https://www.proxxon.com/en/industrial/23080.php
| TheCapn wrote:
| This is pretty common in my experience? Market some relatively
| common item to an out-group of individuals at stupid markup
| based off brand recognition alone and reap the rewards. LTT
| looks to be flexing his brand here on unsuspecting PC
| enthusiasts where anyone with more experience in the electrical
| trades knows where to get higher quality tools for
| better/similar pricing.
|
| I'll compare to my time in Paintball years ago. Any site
| marketing woodsball gear to paintballers had nutty markups, but
| if you went to any Army Surplus or Hunting outfitter you could
| get a lot of similar gear for way cheaper at better quality
| because it wasn't marketed specifically to a niche sport
| relying on brand name alone.
|
| It happens all over the place. Consumers not doing their due
| diligence have only themselves to blame.
| ptasci67 wrote:
| I take the video with a grain of salt of course but just to
| be fair here, the video spends the majority of its time
| explaining in great detail why Linus did NOT just slap his
| name on a megapro screwdriver. I actually found the minute
| details of how they designed, prototyped, and stressed over
| the screwdriver quite fascinating and while it may or may not
| translate to quality... it at least is a weak signal to me
| that someone considered every facet which I believe is
| somewhat correlated with quality.
| isitmadeofglass wrote:
| > Market some relatively common item to an out-group of
| individuals at stupid markup based off brand recognition
| alone and reap the rewards.
|
| Yes, but is that really so bad? I mean you can get cheaper
| T-Shirts with better quality than the ones at the merch stand
| at concerts. People don't buy them because they are under
| some delusion that their great value for price. They buy them
| to support the creators, and to be able to show and talk
| about their support of the creator to others.
| kaladin-jasnah wrote:
| Another example: I feel like DACs have the same problem where
| companies like Schiit market their products to Hi-fi
| enthusiasts when you can get an audio interface with similar
| performance for a much lower price.
| defterGoose wrote:
| These types of products generally fall under the header of
| "lifestyle brands", and IME are experiencing a big boom right
| now due to the advent of "influencers".
| Kye wrote:
| There's a reason this is sold right next to t-shirts and mouse
| pads. This is to support a channel and get something useful in
| return, not for people who are looking for the best value. LTT
| does at least put a lot of thought into the stuff they sell.
| It's not just white-label mystery meat from the cheapest
| manufacturer in Shenzhen's industrial district. I learned a lot
| more than I ever thought I wanted to know about Pantone from
| their video on the Pantone towers they bought for the
| designers.
| _HMCB_ wrote:
| Can you buy their stuff in the USA? Looks amazing.
| MisterTea wrote:
| https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/tools_.
| ..
| 3pm wrote:
| https://www.kctool.com/
| lostapathy wrote:
| KC Tool are great people - I highly recommend them.
| colechristensen wrote:
| You can buy things from other countries and have it shipped
| here. But yes, Amazon has Wera products.
| soperj wrote:
| Maybe, could be a chinese knock off brand posing as Wera,
| you'll never know until it's shipped.
|
| edit: looks like Wera tools specifically are sold by a
| bunch of different people on Amazon, NEMobile, and
| BCFasteners are a couple that I've seen, so really no idea
| what you're getting.
| colechristensen wrote:
| Eh, Amazon was just an easy example.
|
| Grainger stocks Wera in the US
|
| https://www.grainger.com/category/tools?brandName=WERA&fi
| lte...
| soperj wrote:
| Added bonus being that Grainger doesn't track you all
| around the internet.
| selectodude wrote:
| Support our friends at Klein. They also make exceptional
| screwdrivers.
| mauvehaus wrote:
| They're also available almost everywhere. Your local
| electrical supply almost certainly sells them and Home
| Depot has them in the electrical aisle.
|
| Bonus: they sell cabinet tip screwdrivers in the common
| slotted and Philips sizes.
|
| Edited to add: Snap-On also makes good screwdrivers, and
| your friendly local garage can probably tell you when the
| Snap-On truck comes by </edit>
|
| If you need quality slotted screwdrivers for slotted screws
| with both the width and thickness of the blade specified,
| you'll likely need to find your local gun and ammunition
| store (and they'll likely be a special order even there).
|
| Gunsmiths and sewing machine repair people are just about
| the last people on the planet who care about the blade
| fitting the slot well in both directions for a wide variety
| of screw head sizes.
| convolvatron wrote:
| with very little practice you can easily shape a
| screwdriver tip with a hand file
|
| edit: its also helpful to do a quick-n-dirty case
| hardening if you have a gas stove or other way to get it
| dull red
| serf wrote:
| >If you need quality slotted screwdrivers for slotted
| screws with both the width and thickness of the blade
| specified, you'll likely need to find your local gun and
| ammunition store (and they'll likely be a special order
| even there).
|
| or any marine shop. slotted fasteners abound across the
| seven seas.
| rkagerer wrote:
| Yeah after reading some of the Wera reviews on Amazon.ca I
| think I'll stick with my Klein.
| Wistar wrote:
| My top pick.
| omega3 wrote:
| If you're in USA I'd just buy something local made. I've not
| used it personally but I've heard good opinions:
| https://www.amazon.com/Williams-WRS-1-Magnetic-Ratcheting-
| Sc...
| hollywood_court wrote:
| Wera makes quality stuff. I keep a small set of Wera drivers
| and sockets in each of my vehicles. And I keep one of their
| multi drivers upstairs in my office and one downstairs in the
| kitchen. They get used weekly.
| snapplebobapple wrote:
| I love wera too, their tool check plus stuff is so portable
| and so versatile. I keep a set in each of my vehicles and a
| set in the house (that solves 99% of my tool needs, I break
| out my big tool box maybe once a year at home now that I have
| this).
| PaulKeeble wrote:
| The vast majority of the 2 year delay seems to be fraud by their
| Chinese manufacturer. They were given exact specifications but
| they didn't build the parts to it to avoid competition with their
| own production.
|
| They had a bunch of design iterations issues along the way but
| the bulk of it was fraud.
| dom96 wrote:
| > Chinese manufacturer
|
| Isn't it Taiwanese?
| blackoil wrote:
| philliphaydon wrote:
| No.
| PaulKeeble wrote:
| I believe it is now I don't think they mention it in this
| video but have done so on the WAN show, the original
| manufacturer in 2020 however was Chinese, they had to change
| due to the fraud and lost $130000 in the process.
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| Video claims it's the other way around. Taiwanese
| manufacturer screwed them, they changed to Chinese.
| philliphaydon wrote:
| The Taiwanese company was bought out by another company
| who is focusing on their own products. The original
| company had megapro as a long time customer which is why
| LTT used them initially.
|
| Originally company isn't the issue. The new company is
| who screwed over LTT. But we don't know who the new
| company is.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Well unless it was a hostile takeover or something, I
| think the original company shares the blame for not
| taking care of their customers.
| philliphaydon wrote:
| Don't know unless we know who manufactures them, then we
| can find out. But according to Linus, a company which
| makes tools bought them out to manufacture their own
| tools. So it /sounds/ like a hostile takeover.
| tabokie wrote:
| No it isnt. It's literally mentioned in the video.
| (https://youtu.be/2K5Gqp1cEcM?t=1009)
|
| > we changed to a different factory in China potentially
| losing our $130000 deposit in the process.
| TakeBlaster16 wrote:
| Yep. And 15:25 is when he said the first factory was in
| Taiwan.
|
| EDIT: Also a bonus mention at 27:35
| Maursault wrote:
| dtx1 wrote:
| > I would not doubt that, but you're ignoring personality
| disorder (and/or drug abuse, impossible to say) and fiscal
| irresponsibility, which each obviously contributed
| significantly.
|
| who are you refering to? Linus?
| Maursault wrote:
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> you're ignoring personality disorder (and/or drug abuse,
| impossible to say)_
|
| Huh? Does Linus suffer from that?
| Maursault wrote:
| hbn wrote:
| Your comments read like something written by one with
| mania more than anything I've ever observed from Linus
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Dude puts on an excited demeanor so he can get 10% more
| views in his videos and these assholes out here claiming
| he has issues. Geeze. How dare you enjoy yourself on the
| internet.
| Maursault wrote:
| Scalene2 wrote:
| No, but iirc he is pretty open out add or adhd (I forget
| which). It seems well managed.
| Maursault wrote:
| > It seems well managed.
|
| I agree entirely. I think my point had been lost, which
| was merely speculation on what else beyond fraud would
| delay release of a screwdriver for 3 years.
| t-writescode wrote:
| Your "point" was a direct attack on a person with
| absolutely no evidence. You essentially argued that Linus
| spent all that time and money on "blackjack and hookers"
| and that's what took 3 years.
| systems_glitch wrote:
| Here to flog my personal favorite "insert bits and ratcheting"
| option:
|
| https://chapmanmfg.com/products/5573-deluxe-standard-metric-...
|
| Same money (slightly less), made in USA, the kind of quality tool
| you find in the locked part of the old plant maintenance tech
| that everyone else asks for help.
| zxcvgm wrote:
| Not an apples-to-apples comparison, but I just wanted to see the
| price positioning for this screwdriver. It goes for $69.99 [0]
| and Megapro ratcheting screwdrivers (which they mentioned in
| their video) goes from ~$50 to $59.99, depending on what bits it
| comes with.
|
| [0] https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver
|
| [1] https://megaprotools.com/collections/ratcheting-drivers
| bin_bash wrote:
| For some reason Megapro charges significantly more when
| ordering directly and last I looked I wasn't able to find them
| on Amazon.
|
| I was able to find the same screwdrivers for almost 50% less at
| the local Altex (Texas electronics store). Looks like this
| ratcheting one is 42.95:
| https://altex.com/collections/screwdrivers/products/megapro-...
| bombcar wrote:
| Many manufacturers don't like direct sales, and if they offer
| them they're basically offering "warranty stock" for sale.
|
| They much prefer selling to distribution.
| master_crab wrote:
| Megapro is also made in "North America" (I assume Canada but
| would love to hear from someone in the know). So you'd be
| supporting the "local" American economy, if that matters to
| you.
| cjrp wrote:
| Or Mexico?
| master_crab wrote:
| Would be great if it's Mexico too. A healthy economy in any
| of the three N.A. nations is good for all of them.
| Neighbors have an outsize influence on each other.
| kube-system wrote:
| Probably not Greenland.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| In the video they claim Megapro is 20 minutes away from LTT's
| offices - so that'd be Canada, yeah. Unless that's just a
| satellite office for Megapro instead of the headquarters.
| Curzel wrote:
| It's not cheap but it does not seem to be too bad of a value...
|
| YouTuber's merch is generally meant to be a way of supporting a
| show you like, so once you factor that in, I'm happy with the
| price
| shapefrog wrote:
| "The ratchet is based on Megapro's long-standing & reliable
| design, but has been significantly modified to suit our needs.
| We reversed the ratchet direction (right for clockwise, left
| for anti-clockwise), adjusted the spring for lighter back-force
| which allows you to ratchet-drive even very small screws, and
| optimized for smoothness and quiet function. It's rated for
| operation of up to 220 inch-pounds of force."
|
| optimized for an extra $10.00
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Why in the world do small screws need nearly 20 ft-lbs of
| force? That's a level where I'd be breaking out a much larger
| torque wrench. I'd be shocked if the kind of small machine
| screws in a PC can even withstand that force.
| rocqua wrote:
| They don't. The screwdriver isn't meant for that.
|
| Point is "adjusted the spring for lighter back-force" would
| normally mean the max torque you can use is reduced
| (because the spring slips). They state the max torque you
| can use to indicate the effect of the trade-off.
|
| The fact that you think that the max torque is still way
| more than is needed, is probably why they advertise this.
| The fact that max torque is way higher than needed means
| they did not trade off too much max torque to reduce the
| back-force.
| Pxtl wrote:
| Because if somebody uses their $50 screwdriver to
| disassemble office furniture they don't want it to break.
| bombcar wrote:
| "Instantaneous breaking force" or whatever it is can get
| pretty high, especially if the screw has been there for
| awhile, or there's any oxidation, etc.
|
| Starting with the right driver (with a perfect tip that
| fits snugly) will reduce the chance of camout and can help
| remove them, but even then it can be a tricky situation at
| times.
|
| I personally find that having a really _long_ screw driver
| helps - I can get more torque without slipping.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| High torques on small fasteners are common in electrical
| and hydraulic applications. But yeah, zero reason for huge
| amounts of torque in a computer case.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| High torque on the mounting screws of some CPU coolers
| can significantly help thermal performance.
| throw0101c wrote:
| > _optimized for an extra $10.00_
|
| Megapro may have larger economies of scale and therefore
| lower costs, or Megapro may have already paid off / amortized
| the cost of development and so felt its margins were already
| without having that included in the price anymore.
| brianwawok wrote:
| That's not how a business sets prices. It charges as much
| as consumers are willing to pay.
| t-writescode wrote:
| Tell that to Arizona Iced Tea. Not all companies are
| garbage.
|
| Friendly reminder that LTT sells *all* of its desk pads
| and water bottles for the same price, no matter the size.
| V__ wrote:
| If more people are willing to buy the product for a lower
| price and due to better economies of scale / amortized
| cost of development the margins also improve then of
| course they may lower the price.
| Fnoord wrote:
| I got an iFixit Mako set for less than 60 or 70 USD on a Black
| Friday sale a couple of years ago. Should I get this
| screwdriver instead, or is the Mako set suffice? AFAICT the
| Mako set is better bang for the buck, but I don't know the pros
| and cons of this LTT screwdriver.
| oliwarner wrote:
| You can't really get it instead, you already have the other.
| Does it do what you want at a quality point you require? Is
| that worth selling at a heavy loss (eBay suggests PS30 for a
| quick sale)? Are they even comparable products? The Mako
| looks like an 1/8 " driver for small and odd security bits.
|
| A smooth low-backlash ratchet is the USP. Conscious decisions
| about materials. I can't speak to your requirements.
| Fnoord wrote:
| _Other_ people can buy the iFixit Mako [1] set instead of
| this screwdriver though. Perhaps not for the same price I
| did (I got the Pro Tech Toolkit on sale instead which
| contained the Mako set). It also includes Torx which the
| LTT one lacks.
|
| I ended up buying the LTT one to reduce clutter with a
| bunch of my current 'normal' screwdrivers, but the end
| price was about 110 EUR with tax and S&H. Which is rather
| expensive if you ask me.
|
| [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Tools/Pro-Tech-
| Toolkit/IF145-30...
| brailsafe wrote:
| kind of a shame that even though they're based in Canada, if I
| were to buy one from either company I'd have to pay USD to get
| it shipped 1 hour away in the same metro area. $10 USD for
| local shipping apparently
| Curzel wrote:
| They did explain their reasoning behind this during WAN a few
| weeks ago.
|
| In short, they are trying to make shipping price more fair
| for the average customer (including those oversea, or in
| remote regions) by making shipping a bit more expensive where
| it is cheaper.
|
| Charging people nearby a bit extra allows them to offset some
| of those costs.
|
| They provided a few examples of backpacks shipping to remote
| regions in Canada (I forgot the name, sorry) custom upwards
| of hundreds of dollars, but they capped shipping price to
| 50/60$ for every customer.
|
| Very happy to hear that (I live in Europe), but obviously
| you're probably not a fan of the idea as much as I am hahaha
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| I also live in Europe and I'd love to buy their merch but
| the shipping and customs costs add up immensely so there's
| no way I'm buying anything from them.
| Curzel wrote:
| Yeah, but if backpacks ever become available without
| backorder I might make a single big order next year, who
| knows!
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| That actually sounds in line with what Canada Post would
| charge.
|
| I had to ship a laptop from me on Vancouver Island to my
| employer in Vancouver and it cost ~$50.
|
| Shipping in the states is cheap. Shipping in Canada, even
| very short distances, is not.
| 20kleagues wrote:
| Use netparcel. It has changed how I view shipping locally
| within the country and I do it more often now.
| lytfyre wrote:
| That's understating the difference - Megapro sell for
| significantly less than that in practice - pricing here in
| Canada is in the 30 CAD$ range from tool stores, depending on
| bit selection. The LTT driver is 3-4x the price once shipping
| and currency conversion is factored in.
|
| [0] https://www.kmstools.com/megapro-ratcheting-multi-bit-
| screwd...
| jbarberu wrote:
| I always reach for the non-ratcheting screwdriver when working on
| electronics. I find the ratcheting mechanism on all drivers I've
| used to have too much resistance and just start screwing the
| screw back in rendering it useless and bulky. A bit drive with an
| end cap that rotates seems to work best for me.
|
| For automotive it's a different story, but then I'd use a ratchet
| wrench anyway, and fixed screwdrivers in the engine bay as the
| bits like to fall off in the worst places.
| tootie wrote:
| Idk what you call it but ones with a back knob that spins
| freely so you can press with your palm to hold it in place are
| my favorite for tiny screws. I definitely prefer ratchet for
| bigger stuff.
| rocqua wrote:
| Those are called jeweller's screwdrivers.
| afiori wrote:
| They claim to have and extremely low resistance ratchet.
| tuetuopay wrote:
| I still don't get why they, as a tech channel with a tech
| audience, chose the default bit set to include Robertson instead
| of Torx. It'll be no surprise this driver will be used mainly in
| an electronics context, where torx is commonplace and robertson
| hardly seen, even more so outside of north America.
| jonatron wrote:
| It's a Canadian thing.
| BeefWellington wrote:
| While true, I've never seen it on a piece of tech.
|
| If this is meant to be a general around-the-house screwdriver
| set, then the price point is way off. If this is meant to be
| more of a tech-focused set, missing Torx seems really dumb.
| mrweasel wrote:
| For most tech related tasks they could get rid of the flat-
| head bits and replace those with the Torxs. If they really
| wanted to keep the Robertson bits.
| BeefWellington wrote:
| I don't agree because I've seen plenty of consumer-grade
| tech that uses flat-head screws. It's becoming less
| common but as one example I have a couple of external
| USB-nVME enclosures that came with flat-head screws to
| open the external casing. Inside it's Philips.
| jccalhoun wrote:
| I think they would be kicked out of Canada if they didn't. :-P
| bagels wrote:
| It is my understanding that Robertson drive is very common in
| Canada, where Linus is located.
| hbn wrote:
| I live in Canada and that's news to me
|
| I feel like most of the stuff I'd be using a screwdriver on
| came from the US, or Japan, or somewhere else. Especially
| electronics
|
| I don't know if I buy that, LTT has never targeted a Canadian
| audience. If anything they try to make you forget they're
| Canadian. They only ever say US prices for things, which
| makes sense since that audience is way bigger. So I don't
| know why they'd target a screwdriver to Canadians.
| goosedragons wrote:
| It's mainly used in construction/industrial stuff here. The
| bookshelves in my office are screwed to the wall using
| Robertson for example.
|
| I guess maybe they wanted a more general screwdriver? They
| don't seem to have the smallest bits either like you might
| want for general electronic repair or weird bits like the
| tri-wing or gamebit.
| Scalene2 wrote:
| They regularly reference them being Canadian, and sometimes
| do state Canadian prices.
| SayMyName wrote:
| pikminguy wrote:
| No they didn't. Watch the video.
| leesalminen wrote:
| The linked video goes into painstaking detail to explain how
| this isn't simply a white labeled product. Do you have any
| evidence to support your claim that they're lying?
| mewse-hn wrote:
| Robertson is really common for network closet / telco
| demarcation points in Canada
| brailsafe wrote:
| Ideally if I spent 1 billion dollars on a screwdriver, I'd want
| it to be useful for general use as well
| jsmith45 wrote:
| I have heard that many of those screws that appear to have both
| a long slot and Philips style plus shape, are actually designed
| to also accept Robertson, and that in so doing using a Philips
| driver on those screws has a much greater chance of damaging
| the screwhead. These are often seen on things like outlets and
| light switches.
|
| (Note, many but not all are designed to accept a Philips
| driver, with a visible cross that slightly extends past the 45
| degree angled robertson opening, plus having some visible
| slopes to the edges rather than near 90 degree edges that a
| screw deigned for only slotted or Robertson would be expected
| to have. But there are some that are strictly flat and
| Robertson only).
|
| For those particular screws the best bit is allegedly the ECX
| bit, which is basically a Robertson Flathead combo bit, and the
| second best bit to use is the appropriate sized Robertson bit,
| with Flathead next, and Philips being best avoided.
|
| This makes including a Robertson driver actually not too
| unreasonable. I in the US have plenty of switches and outlets
| could be driven with it.
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| There's a cheap plastic handle design fairly common on old
| screwdrivers and i've seen it as a wooden handle on chisels too.
| I didn't know it's name until recently - the "London Pattern
| Handle". These are peak handle design IMO.
|
| It lets you hold it in a few different ways, with your fingertips
| for work where you need to accurately feel what the tip is doing.
| With the palm of your hand when you need to apply lots of torque.
| It doesn't roll when you set it down. You can smack the end of it
| when you need to shock a slightly rusty or reluctant screw.
|
| It's ironic because i think these are the cheapest design and i
| suspect most companies invent their own design precisely because
| this design is fairly evocative of old cheap mass produced hard
| plastic handles.
|
| They just feel so good in your hand though. It's the perfect
| handle design.
| dkarl wrote:
| It's hard to image improving on that handle design. It's even
| good with the hard, slick plastic handles of my old cheap
| Craftsman screwdrivers. I hate handles where I have to figure
| out and copy how the designer expected me to grip it. I have no
| idea how my hand grips my Craftsman screwdrivers, and I don't
| care. The handle has a bunch of ridges, our hands have a bunch
| of bumps and ridges, just grab at any angle or grip you want,
| and the bumps and ridges find a way to catch on each other. The
| one aspect that could be improved is that the older ones I have
| are from the 1970s and probably wouldn't work well for people
| with larger hands.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| For the visual people, here's a london pattern handle:
| https://www.benchcrafted.com/londonpatternhandle
|
| You can find the same shape in mass produced modern tools with
| plastic handles: https://www.sears.com/craftsman-5-pc-slotted-
| screwdriver-set...
| bluesquared wrote:
| They also allow you to use a wrench/pliers to apply more
| torque/holding.
| denton-scratch wrote:
| That's what the hex section of the shaft, just south of the
| handle, is for.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| And it has a terrible warranty. THE LIMITED
| LIFETIME WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER: Bits, as they are
| considered a consumable item; Tools which have been
| subject to abuse, misuse, negligence, or improper storage;
| Tools which have been used improperly e.g. using the screwdriver
| as a pry bar or hammer; Tools which have been altered in
| any way; Normal wear and tear (including the breakdown
| of materials over time); Cosmetic damage (including
| scratches or changes in the finish of the plastic handle);
| Products purchased from unauthorized dealers
|
| Buy Craftsman. Craftsman's Full Lifetime Warranty states anyone
| can take the screwdriver to the hardware store and take home a
| new one.
|
| https://www.craftsman.com/support/warranty
|
| https://imgur.com/gallery/VUjZm
| bobsmooth wrote:
| Or you can just buy a quality tool and not waste your time.
| rozab wrote:
| The point of lifetime warranties is it incentivizes the
| company to make something that will last forever.
|
| https://youtu.be/syii9DKnb2M
| bobsmooth wrote:
| You must not be familiar with Crasftman tools.
| toss1 wrote:
| Except it doesn't.
|
| An engineer I worked with used primarily Matco & also Snap-
| On & a few otehrs. He specifically said about Craftsman:
| "Sure, they have a lifetime warranty that you can go swap
| one at any store -- that doesn't help you when you are out
| in the field and the thing breaks and you need it NOW. More
| than worth it to buy one that doesn't break."
|
| I picked up that approach and can strongly recommend it.
| I've also bought a lot of Matco tools on eBay with very
| good results. They just work without problems and last
| effectively forever. (The one thing that hasn't lasted
| effectively forever was Snap-On air-powered dual orbit
| sanders, they only lasted a 8 years or so...)
| ubercore wrote:
| I feel like the practice is that they bank on not enough
| people using it, then either take it away entirely if too
| many people do, or stop individuals they feel are abusing
| it (in the US, anyway)
| animex wrote:
| I've never had to replace a craftsman tool during normal home
| use... 20+ years.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| In a single summer I went through half a dozen 10mm sockets
| and one 10mm wrench. Luckily I was working inside a
| Canadian Tire so I could swap out during a break.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Are your tools from before or after Sears cashed in on the
| brand value?
| Melatonic wrote:
| Craftsmen is not all that great anymore. Much better USA brands
| that are made here.
| SeanLuke wrote:
| A screwdriver that fits _custom bits_. In an industry that has
| standardized bit design. This seems set up for failure. I
| understand the reason they did it. It 's not a good reason.
| whermans wrote:
| Shorter bits, but with an industry-standard diameter. You can
| use third-party bits.
| pmarreck wrote:
| You must have not watched the whole thing. There's a "ninja
| star" (they call it) which when turned allows it to store
| (fewer) standard bits.
| compsciphd wrote:
| no, it fits standard bits, the length of the bits is smaller so
| it can hold more in its internal carry. there's a difference.
| philliphaydon wrote:
| It fits standard bits. The bit loader holds standard long bits,
| just 6 instead of 12...
|
| People are clearly commenting without actually watching the
| video.
| SeanLuke wrote:
| I watched it but missed this somehow.
| andrew_ wrote:
| Perfectly balanced, until you lose a bit.
| SadWebDeveloper wrote:
| Seems like the juicero for screwdrivers... over-engineered tool
| that without the "LTT" branding could probably sink in the
| stores.
|
| Personally i like my tools rugged, kinda like Klein does it
| because "on the job" i tend to thrown them away either on purpose
| or by accident, this tool looks fragile, if little margins stuck
| the ratchet mechanism i can not wait what is going to happen when
| it suddenly falls from the 2nd floor while installing an Access
| Point or Security Camera.
| tmh88j wrote:
| > Seems like the juicero for screwdrivers... over-engineered
| tool that without the "LTT" branding could probably sink in the
| stores.
|
| I haven't used one so I don't know how durable they are, but I
| got the opposite impression. The juicero served no purpose. If
| you don't need a multi-purpose screwdriver that's one thing,
| but it does have plenty of use-cases and there are a lot of
| competitors which they showed so they are in demand to some
| extent. I'd say their attempt is more akin to Snap-on with how
| much energy they seemed to focus on ergonomics and UX,
| especially the ratcheting mechanism.
| hotcoffeebear wrote:
| Plus, it's probably for computer builders and stuff (like
| ikea things or similar). I don't think those meant for heavy
| duty or home building.
| jgoewert wrote:
| Should watch the video they did just before this one where
| they did a live popup shop and had people trying to torque
| the hell out of this and it stands up.
|
| Or even during this exact video where he says that if you
| hit the max torque that this screwdriver can survive, you
| better have seen that your steel pc case now has a hole in
| it where the screw used to be.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >I'd say their attempt is more akin to Snap-on with how much
| energy they seemed to focus on ergonomics and UX, especially
| the ratcheting mechanism.
|
| Snap On builds "fine" tools and sells them for premium prices
| because their brand has a lot of mind share among the
| customers. Kitchenaid does the same thing.
|
| These people don't a long established brand to power their
| money printer so they instead turn to marketing. If you want
| to market an expensive screwdriver to the kind of people who
| buy them hyping up the manufacturing process is a great way
| to go about it.
| xenadu02 wrote:
| Snap On is selling more than just a brand:
|
| 1. They will outfit your new shop on a payment plan (or at
| least they did at one time), allowing a new mechanic to get
| started with a full set of tools for not much money.
|
| 2. Their reps come to you with a big truck loaded with
| common replacement tools and calibration machines. How many
| people ever read the fine print that says their torque
| wrench requires calibration every six months, let alone
| bother to do so?
|
| Kitchenaid stand mixers are selling the fact that they're a
| classic heavily built design not cheap thin plastic and
| they're still built in the USA.
|
| Not everyone wants to buy the cheapest $5 widget available
| and I'm glad the market is able to serve different types of
| customers. Obviously that can be taken to an extreme (the
| entire audiophile market for example) but finding product-
| market fit and serving a specific set of customers
| shouldn't be demeaned as just "branding".
| tmh88j wrote:
| They worked with Megapro to develop it, a reputable brand.
| I haven't used it, but denying potential quality solely
| because they don't have brand recognition in that space is
| an unconvincing argument.
| Theodores wrote:
| My first job as a cycle mechanic was great because we had
| Snap On for everything and the Snap On van would pop by
| regularly to keep us with everything needed.
|
| We actually sold fancy bike tools including Park, which is
| the allegedly professional brand in cycling.
|
| I enjoyed the flex of being able to work extremely fast
| with those extremely shiny tools. Hence, for irrational
| reasons I see Snap On as a premium brand to not be
| questioned, even if all evidence is contrary.
|
| Intel is like that for me, I have heard AMD are better but
| I cling onto this notion that Intel are always better for
| floating point and, even though I have no evidence of that,
| my mind is made up. I will take that Intel CPU and I don't
| care if it is slower, takes twice the electricity and costs
| more.
|
| With Snap On I do not know how well their business was able
| to pivot to the web where you can get whatever tool you
| want from the jungle store, next day. The Snap On van
| brought excellence to our door with every specialist tool
| you could wish for. Price didn't matter because you would
| need to drive hours to find a stockist of lesser brands.
|
| My personal favourite screwdriver to 'flex' is my Silicon
| Graphics screwdriver. We have bonded and I am not going to
| upgrade to some YouTuber's screwdriver.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| > Seems like the juicero for screwdrivers... over-engineered
| tool that without the "LTT" branding could probably sink in the
| stores.
|
| Megapro (LTT's partner on this) has been selling this type of
| ratcheting driver w/ bit storage in the handle for 25 years and
| is pretty well reviewed. How did you manage to make the leap to
| Juicero & only "saved by LTT logo" nonsense from such a well
| established, long-running product?
| TheCapn wrote:
| So what advantages does the $69.99 LTT driver have over the
| $48.99, $54.99, or $59.99 ratcheting drivers sold by Magapro
| themeslves? I think that's more to what OP is getting at.
|
| Going to a store knowing the LTT driver is a rebranded
| Magapro, why would any consumer want to pay the markup
| besides the brand name?
|
| For me, the LTT driver's only notable differences are not
| valuable additions to justify the cost. I think that's where
| the Juicero comparison enters: they've added unnecessary
| engineering to a tool that doesn't require it, then marked up
| the price for something most people will never require.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| I mean the video is literally RIGHT THERE explaining in
| great detail why it's better then the megapro and why they
| didn't just slap an LTT logo on an existing screw driver.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| > Going to a store knowing the LTT driver is a rebranded
| Magapro, why would any consumer want to pay the markup
| besides the brand name?
|
| It's not a rebranded Megapro, as the video goes into great
| details to elaborate on. But even if you just _look_ at
| them, it 's obviously not a white label rebrand. Which you
| (and OP) is obviously aware of by then also slamming it for
| having "unnecessary engineering". It can't both be a label
| rebrand _and_ have unnecessary engineering - those are
| mutually exclusive, completely opposite ends of the
| spectrum complaints.
|
| Whether or not the differences are worth $10 is a different
| question, and altogether extremely different in both scope
| & tone to the juicero comparison.
|
| > they've added unnecessary engineering to a tool that
| doesn't require it
|
| What unnecessary engineering?
| kcb wrote:
| These questions and more would be answered if you watched
| the video.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| Looks to me like a run-of-the-mill multipurpose screwdriver,
| with a perfectly ordinary development effort behind.
|
| I don't think this would break if you drop it from a person's
| height, but it may break if you drop from the 2nd floor. Just
| like any similar one.
|
| I guess the lesson here is that you don't want a multipurpose
| screwdriver if you will work on the top of a ladder. It will
| just bring you extra problems. (Although I do use mine a lot
| that way, usually because it's already around. It does bring
| extra problems.)
| causi wrote:
| The half-height bits also make it very hard to curate the
| selection for your specific use cases without buying directly
| from LTT.
| sacredSaint wrote:
| They do support full size bits. Though you will be only able
| to store 6 full size bits instead of 12 small bits. https://c
| dn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0522/2980/0129/files/Addit...
| O_H_E wrote:
| Just for people who didn't watch the video. They could only
| fit 12 bits in that they determined to be "optimal size"
| handle by making them half-size. But they disliked the idea
| of locking people into their bits, and changed the design so
| that a little rotation can adapt the storage area to 6
| standard-sized bits.
|
| Here is a link to the relevant section
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K5Gqp1cEcM&t=819s
| ghosty141 wrote:
| Did you all not watch the video before complaining? He
| specifically mentioned this, its designed so yoi can also
| have normal bits in the bitset
| rspeele wrote:
| > juicero for screwdrivers
|
| You have to buy a proprietary packet of orange juice and vodka?
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