[HN Gopher] 1 week of Stable Diffusion
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       1 week of Stable Diffusion
        
       Author : victormustar
       Score  : 420 points
       Date   : 2022-08-30 13:53 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (multimodal.art)
 (TXT) w3m dump (multimodal.art)
        
       | m_ke wrote:
       | After playing with it for a few hours I'm sold on it soon
       | replacing all blog spam media and potentially flooding etsy with
       | "artists" trying to pass the renders as their own art work.
       | 
       | Here's some of the stuff I generated: https://imgur.com/a/mfjHNgO
        
       | lijogdfljk wrote:
       | That Figma plugin is mind blowing to me. I'm also curious to see
       | how the Blender integration pans out
        
       | syntaxing wrote:
       | It's really crazy how Stable Diffusion seems to be very on par
       | with DALL-E and you can run it on "most" hardware. Is there an
       | equivalent for GPT-3? I don't even think I can run the 2M lite
       | GPT-J on my computer...
        
         | planetsprite wrote:
         | Stable Diffusion seems hyper-trained on digital art and faces.
         | Dall-e feels a lot more "intelligent" and can create a far
         | greater and more comprehensive diversity of images from
         | different prompts.
        
         | ManuelKiessling wrote:
         | Tangential: I've set up a Discord Bot that turns your text
         | prompt into images using Stable Diffusion.
         | 
         | You can invite the bot to your server via
         | https://discord.com/api/oauth2/authorize?client_id=101337304...
         | 
         | Talk to it using the /draw Slash Command.
         | 
         | It's very much a quick weekend hack, so no guarantees
         | whatsoever. Not sure how long I can afford the AWS g4dn
         | instance, so get it while it's hot.
         | 
         | Oh and get your prompt ideas from https://lexica.art if you
         | want good results.
         | 
         | PS: Anyone knows where to host reliable NVIDIA-equipped VMs at
         | a reasonable price?
        
           | nabakin wrote:
           | Any chance of releasing the source? I'd like to host my own
           | instance so my discord server doesn't have to worry about
           | queue times
        
             | ManuelKiessling wrote:
             | Yeah, sure: https://github.com/manuelkiessling/stable-
             | diffusion-discord-...
             | 
             | I quickly polished things and created a useful README -
             | hopefully it's all correct. If not, let me know!
        
               | nabakin wrote:
               | Awesome, tysm!
        
           | olladecarne wrote:
           | One thing I noticed is that on GCP if you create a
           | a2-ultragpu (Nvidia a100 80gb) and you select a spot
           | instance, the price estimate goes down to $0.33 hourly
           | ($240/m) which sounds really good if it's not a mistake. I
           | was wondering if you could then turn a single A100 into 7
           | GPUs using Multi-instance GPUs. So on an 80gb one you get 7
           | 10GB GPUs (can't have 8 due to yield issues on those cards).
           | I'm pretty sure that will run much slower than on the full
           | instance, but not 7x slower so if you're running a larger
           | service at scale this could be an option to parallelize
           | things. If someone is able to get that running please let me
           | know how it performs.
           | 
           | The next thing I considered was just buying up a ton of 3060
           | 12gb cards (saw a few new ones for $330) and just hosting a
           | server from my house. This might be a good option if you
           | don't care about speed but care about throughput.
           | 
           | RTX 3090s are also decent in terms of price per iteration of
           | Stable Diffusion. If you want to build a fast service like
           | Dreamstudio I think it's the only option to be able to do it
           | at a reasonable price. If you want to host these in the cloud
           | using consumer RTX cards, you'll have to go with less
           | reputable hosts since Nvidia doesn't allow it. I don't want
           | to name any since I can't vouch for them, but there are some
           | if you search. The cheapest option will be to buy them and
           | host it yourself.
           | 
           | I'm still researching what the best price/performance is for
           | hosting this so if you have any findings please share.
        
           | rexreed wrote:
           | I'm experimenting with your Discord bot right now. It would
           | be great to have a command that shows where your processes
           | are currently in the queue or maybe the discord bot can
           | update on queue position.
        
             | ManuelKiessling wrote:
             | Good idea, I'll look into it.
        
               | rexreed wrote:
               | I submitted 2 /draw requests with prompts, got quoted a
               | time 15-30 min for first one and then 17-34 for 2nd,
               | submitted about 5 minutes apart but it's been now past
               | the upper limit of the quoted time without any results.
               | I'm assuming that the image generation has failed or
               | perhaps the bot got stuck. Having some way of knowing
               | would be helpful.
        
               | ManuelKiessling wrote:
               | Not stuck, just a full queue. Results will come back
               | sooner or later. Time is really just a guesstimate.
        
               | rexreed wrote:
               | Just got one of the images back. Looks like you might
               | want to double your time estimates. Also I got a Rick
               | Roll meme image back as one of the results. I assume this
               | is some sort of failure mode response?
        
               | ManuelKiessling wrote:
               | Rick chimes in when the AI thinks the image might be
               | NSFW.
        
               | rexreed wrote:
               | Well that would have been a fun interpretation of my
               | prompt ;)
        
         | juliensalinas wrote:
         | I worked on the Stable Diffusion and GPT-J integrations on NLP
         | Cloud (https://nlpcloud.com/). Both can be used in FP16 without
         | any noticeable quality drop (in my opinion). Stable diffusion
         | requires 7GB of VRAM on a Tesla T4 GPU. GPT-J requires 12GB of
         | VRAM (but if you really try to use the 2048 tokens context, the
         | VRAM will go up and reach something like 20GB of VRAM).
        
         | karolist wrote:
         | I have 64GB RAM and nVidia with 24GB vmem, which projects could
         | be the limit I can run locally?
        
         | pdntspa wrote:
         | Personally I don't find it on-par or even close to DALL-E...
         | stylistically its output is a lot more plain (Midjourney does
         | really well here) and it can't handle complicated prompts well
         | (it will pick the one thing in the prompt it does know about
         | and run with it, ignoring all else)
         | 
         | Plus, there are huge gaps in training. Ask it to draw something
         | simple, like "a penis" and you get nightmare fuel....
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | Does DALL-E let you output penises? I thought openAI was
           | forbidding many 'unseemly' prompts.
        
         | xor99 wrote:
         | This is the killer aspect of it. Running an image in a <5 mins
         | on a Mac is amazing when you consider the alternatives atm.
        
         | macrolime wrote:
         | GPT-3 isn't really all that optimized in terms of size. Later
         | studies have shown that you don't need that many parameters to
         | get the same results, so it should be possible to train a model
         | that could run at least on something like an RTX 4090 Ti with
         | 48GB ram.
        
         | acapybara wrote:
         | Full GPT-6B can run if you have 22gb ram (CPU or GPU depending
         | on where you run it).
         | 
         | Also can run an 8 bit quantized version pretty easily. This
         | takes ~6gb RAM.
         | 
         | The results seem far off from GPT-3 but apparently it can get
         | good results when fine tuned.
         | 
         | Bigger models like OPT 66B can run on cloud machines (or a
         | really big local system)
         | 
         | OPT 175B weights are not open but can be applied for.
         | 
         | 175B would require something like 500GB RAM if not quantized.
         | That's a lot, but it's possible to build that locally if you
         | have a couple 10's of thousands of dollars.
         | 
         | Wait a few years and 175B on a GPU will be no problem.
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | What does 'quantized' mean in this context?
        
             | acapybara wrote:
             | Basically stuff a 32 bit value into an 8 bit value (and
             | lose precision).
             | 
             | Apparently it doesn't affect the results significantly.
             | 
             | More info:
             | 
             | https://github.com/huggingface/transformers/pull/17901
        
       | fab1an wrote:
       | I think most are vastly underestimating the impact of Synthetic
       | AI media - this is at least as big as the invention of
       | film/photography (century-level shift) and maybe as big as the
       | invention of writing (millenia-level shift). Once you really
       | think through the consequences of the collapse of idea and
       | execution, you likely to tend think the latter...
       | 
       | What we're seeing now are toy-era seeds for what's possible -
       | e.g. I've been making a completely Midjourney-generated
       | "interactive" film called SALT:
       | https://twitter.com/SALT_VERSE/status/1536799731774537733
       | 
       | That would have been completely impossible just a few months ago.
       | Incredibly exciting to think what we'll be able to do just one
       | year from now..
        
         | deviner wrote:
         | It doesn't bring anything new, just enhanced on top of what
         | already exists, not even close to photography or film.
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | As big as the invention of CGI
         | 
         | Still, humans use art to communicate intent, and we still
         | consider AIs to be 'things' , no agency or intent. Being an
         | artist just became a lot harder, because no amount of technical
         | prowess can make you stand out. It s all about the narrative
         | now
        
           | wonnage wrote:
           | Art has always been about more than technical prowess; it's
           | fundamentally an exploration of new ways to tickle neurons.
           | 
           | For more practical purposes like product design, anyone will
           | tell you that actually drawing stuff is akin to typing in
           | code, it can take a while but it's not the hard part
        
           | schroeding wrote:
           | > we still consider AIs to be 'things'
           | 
           | Do we, though? You and I do, sure. Most people here will,
           | probably. But at least one counter-example was on display a
           | few weeks ago, the guy from Google that told the press that
           | their text completion engine was " _alive_ " and " _had
           | agency_ ".
           | 
           | From my friends I talked about this (which are not in IT),
           | most believed him. YMMV, but I seriously believe a good chunk
           | of the population thinks we already have thinking A(G)I. I
           | don't think there is a "we" here, anymore. :/
        
             | seydor wrote:
             | Do you think you 'll see an AI in jail anytime soon? If
             | not, then it's nowhere nearly "a good chunk of the
             | population"
        
               | schroeding wrote:
               | Do we see pets in jail? No, but most people wouldn't say
               | they are things (even though, in German law, they
               | literally are), they are more or less intelligent beings
               | with agency.
               | 
               | I don't see the correlation, to be honest. A good chunk
               | (but still a minority) of the people believing something
               | doesn't automatically change the law, anyway, does it? :/
        
               | seydor wrote:
               | pets do get euthanized/ muzzled if they are found
               | 'guilty' against humans because we do think they have
               | agency . Sometimes we blame the owner for things they
               | could have done, but there are cases where it's beyond
               | their control. For the same reason we don't jail kids but
               | sometimes they do get punishment. We do thing kids and
               | pets have agency, but not full agency.
               | 
               | At the current stage i don't think there is any AI that
               | can be punished, or anyone that would credibly claim that
               | an AI must be punished. Its maker will always be punished
               | instead.
               | 
               | Well true but i think that chunk is quite small. It's one
               | thing to nonchalantly say "this is alive" and a very
               | different thing when you have to deal with the
               | consequences.
        
               | schroeding wrote:
               | > It's one thing to nonchalantly say "this is alive" and
               | a very different thing when you have to deal with the
               | consequences.
               | 
               | Yeah, fully agreed! Chatbots and "creative" ML systems
               | are in the weird spot where they can't physically kill or
               | hurt people, like e.g. a self-driving car, and perform
               | tasks that "feel" like they need intelligence.
               | 
               | It's also absolutely quite possible that the "chunk" is
               | way smaller than I think, I'm just blindly extrapolating
               | from my social bubble :D
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | Is it? I seriously doubt it.
         | 
         | Other than "you can't trust anything you don't see with your
         | own eyes", what kind of shift is it? People lived like that for
         | literally millennia before photography, audio, and video
         | recording.
         | 
         | At absolute worst, we are only undoing about 150 years of
         | development, and only "kind of" and only in certain scenarios.
         | 
         | Moreover, people were making convincing edits of street signs,
         | etc. literally 20 years ago using just Photoshop. What does
         | this really change at a fundamental level? Okay, so you can
         | mimic voices and generate video, rather than just static
         | images. But people have been making hoax recordings and videos
         | for longer than we've had computers.
         | 
         | I think the effects of this stuff will be: 1) making it
         | easier/cheaper to create certain forms of art and entertainment
         | media, 2) making it easier to create hoaxes, and 3) we will
         | eventually need to contend with challenges to IP law. That's
         | about it. I think it will create a lot of value for a lot of
         | people (sibling comment makes a good point about this being
         | equivalent to CGI), but I don't see the big societal shift
         | you're claiming that this is.
        
           | tracerbulletx wrote:
           | Being able to just make a mental storyboard of ideas, and
           | have that be trivially easy to turn into a finished product
           | will transform who can express, and how they will express
           | ideas and stories and art. Now you can do images. Will we
           | also be able to do voice actors, video, 3d Assets, and even
           | story beats and dialogue? It seems quite possible. Everyone
           | just became, or is becoming, a director with 1000 cast
           | members, concept artists, and crew at their disposal.
        
           | planetsprite wrote:
        
           | flycaliguy wrote:
           | I think your perspective is really sharp and hits the
           | important points. I think you might be right but I also think
           | we are witnessing a sort of merger between an internet
           | history and physical history. It's playing out in a lot of
           | ways but mostly through the impact of social media on civil
           | discourse. We are watching technology collide with the real
           | world.
           | 
           | It just feels to me like the internet has arrived in a way
           | that can best be expressed in an Adam Curtis documentary.
        
           | hackernewds wrote:
           | Photoshop has always existed. Yet we haven't lost the era of
           | not trusting pictures. What is new?
           | 
           | I think we're making the folly of comparing AI generated art
           | to human generated art from the 90s. Humans have "advanced"
           | much further with the advancements now that DALL-E is nowhere
           | close to.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/iKBs9l8jS6Q
        
             | jhbadger wrote:
             | And even earlier than Photoshop or computers. The concern
             | over this reminds me of the era shortly after the
             | development of photography where it was discovered that
             | doing things like multiple exposure allowed the creation of
             | "trick" photographs where you could combine images to
             | create pictures of giants towering over buildings or tiny
             | people playing in teacups. Society managed not to be
             | falsely convinced of the existence of such beings despite
             | the worry that people wouldn't be able to tell fact from
             | fiction in them.
        
           | kertoip_1 wrote:
           | > people were making convincing edits of street signs, etc.
           | literally 20 years ago using just Photoshop
           | 
           | You needed to have tools, skill, resources and time to do
           | such things. You don't need to have that anymore. Anyone can
           | do anything on any scale.
           | 
           | It's something what SpaceX did. Ofc it was possible to launch
           | a rocket before SpaceX, but few really could afford that. Now
           | that prices are low, that opens infinite number of new space
           | exploration possibilities.
        
             | time_to_smile wrote:
             | > You don't need to have that anymore. Anyone can do
             | anything on any scale.
             | 
             | I have yet to see an example of "Synthetic AI media" that
             | was both realistic and not immediately recognizable as
             | being synthetically generated.
             | 
             | And if you think being 99% there means we're very close to
             | 100% just remember how long it's taken self driving cars to
             | close the gap (we actually don't know how long since they
             | still haven't succeeded in this).
        
               | pretendscholar wrote:
               | >I have yet to see an example of "Synthetic AI media"
               | that was both realistic and not immediately recognizable
               | as being synthetically generated.
               | 
               | Would you know if you had?
        
               | gpm wrote:
               | > I have yet to see an example of "Synthetic AI media"
               | that was both realistic and not immediately recognizable
               | as being synthetically generated.
               | 
               | Man, am I a good photographer or what
               | 
               | https://imgur.com/mUoY4b1
               | 
               | I mean, probably if you're familiar enough with squirrels
               | something gives it away, but I'm not.
        
               | gpm wrote:
               | That said, I do think it does better with less realistic
               | images right now, like
               | 
               | https://imgur.com/mcJsg0n and https://imgur.com/41eENUO
               | 
               | It also took a number of much worse images to get those
               | ones.
        
               | borski wrote:
               | Okay, but Imgur marked that second one as erotic, so for
               | every two steps forward... haha
        
               | gpm wrote:
               | Lol, it didn't tell me that.
               | 
               | In case anyone is worried, it isn't remotely erotic or
               | otherwise nsfw.
        
               | butwhywhyoh wrote:
               | You're right. I guess if you can't tell the difference,
               | that means everyone who claims to be able to tell the
               | difference is lying!
               | 
               | I'm not particularly familiar with squirrels and
               | something about that "photo" looks very off. If you
               | showed it to me in a vacuum I'd just assume someone was
               | trying to make a highly stylized version of something
               | they had a photo reference for, but under no
               | circumstances would I believe that's a real photo.
        
               | gpm wrote:
               | I'm not accusing anyone of lying, I'm suggesting that
               | they might not have fully seen what this technology is
               | capable of yet. I'm sure that I haven't. The whole point
               | of the post we are discussing this under is the rate of
               | progress in the space.
        
               | simonw wrote:
               | > I have yet to see an example of "Synthetic AI media"
               | that was both realistic and not immediately recognizable
               | as being synthetically generated.
               | 
               | Three months ago I'd probably have agreed with you.
               | Things have changed.
        
             | nerdponx wrote:
             | > You needed to have tools, skill, resources and time to do
             | such things.
             | 
             | Downloading a cracked copy of Photoshop and checking out a
             | book from the library on how to edit photos is only
             | somewhat more difficult than learning to use Python and
             | write programs that generate art from some model. And only
             | because learning _anything_ is extremely easy today with so
             | many free resources and help forums.
             | 
             | > Anyone can do anything on any scale.
             | 
             | I'll believe it when I see it.
             | 
             | > Now that prices are low, that opens infinite number of
             | new space exploration possibilities.
             | 
             | Except SpaceX is still in the "crawl" phase of "crawl,
             | walk, run", and they only got even that far because because
             | an eccentric billionaire has staked his reputation on the
             | problem and thrown a huge amount of money at it, without
             | having to worry about things like "reporting to Congress"
             | and "making sure the space program creates jobs in such-
             | and-such voting district". And after all that effort and
             | truly astounding engineering (the rocket _lands itself_
             | back on the launch pad!!), space launches are _still_
             | expensive, risky, and complicated, and will remain so into
             | the foreseeable future (~decades).
        
               | kertoip_1 wrote:
               | > they only got even that far because because an
               | eccentric billionaire has staked his reputation on the
               | problem and thrown a huge amount of money at it
               | 
               | That's what Bezos did with its Blue Origin. If you check
               | where is Blue Origin in space race, you'll quickly
               | realize it's not enough
               | 
               | Edit: ah, and is space still expensive? If one of
               | universities in my middle-sized country with no space
               | engineering background could afford to launch cubesat via
               | SpaceX, then yes, I think it became cheap.
        
               | nerdponx wrote:
               | Did Bezos stake his reputation on Blue Origin? I think
               | it'd be a lot less embarrassing for him if Blue Origin
               | folded than it would be for Musk if SpaceX folded.
        
               | nextaccountic wrote:
               | > Python
               | 
               | Most people using those models aren't writing Python
               | code. Check out https://www.reddit.com/r/dalle2/,
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/,
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/,
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/bigsleep/ etc
               | 
               | I expect that once the technology matures, a smaller and
               | smaller niche of users will be doing any kind of
               | programming
        
               | viscanti wrote:
               | > Downloading a cracked copy of Photoshop and checking
               | out a book from the library on how to edit photos is only
               | somewhat more difficult than learning to use Python and
               | write programs that generate art from some model.
               | 
               | How much practice would one need after doing that, before
               | they're able to match the quality of some of the AI
               | generated art? Not all of the AI generated artwork is
               | perfect, but some of the art would take the average
               | person years of practice to be able to match. Some art
               | requires more than a cracked copy of Photoshop and a
               | weekend of reading a book you borrowed from a library.
               | You may be surprised to find that some people spend years
               | honing their craft.
        
             | fatherzine wrote:
             | "opens infinite number of new space exploration
             | possibilities"
             | 
             | In practice, "infinite" translates mainly to a handful of
             | hyper-competitive guys checking off "went to space" off
             | their achievements list. There is a very good reason for
             | that: space is very inhospitable, much more inhospitable
             | than Antarctica. Nothing much has happened in Antarctica
             | for 100 years beyond the occasional hyper-competitive
             | athlete and a few research stations. Perhaps a natural
             | resource gold rush might liven up the place for a few
             | decades, until exhaustion and falling back to inhospitable
             | status, dotted with the rare ghost town remains.
             | 
             | Something similar happens in the "creative" space: the
             | Internet unleashed a massive tidal wave of "content", yet
             | the vast vast majority of it is rather trite and devoid of
             | any (spiritual) meaning. Personally, I'm much more inclined
             | to stick with the classics than even 20 years ago, simply
             | because it's not worth my time wading through the deluge of
             | poor quality "content" out there. To wrap up the analogy,
             | I'd rather inhabit a nutritionally rich environment, than
             | getting lost in the the vast, but mostly empty, expanse of
             | the Internet.
        
               | borski wrote:
               | I see your point, and I raise you SoundCloud rap, tiktok,
               | and virality.
               | 
               | A lot of the "trite" internet creations have gone on to
               | become absolutely massive songs or artists.
        
               | jjeaff wrote:
               | I wouldn't say "a lot". A handful at most.
        
               | borski wrote:
               | New music is funneled through the internet now, and
               | that's how things get launched. The old mode is dying.
        
               | njarboe wrote:
               | Nothing happens in Antarctica because the world powers
               | signed a treaty in 1959 causing that to happen[1]. If it
               | was open land that was allowed inhabited and owned by
               | people forming new governments, I would bet you would see
               | settlements sprout up there quite quickly. In space you
               | might be able to set up new sovereign entities. That is
               | one major reason people will want to go there.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/antarct/anttrty.jsp
        
               | simonw wrote:
               | Even if the vast majority of content on the internet is
               | "rather trite and devoid of meaning", there's so much out
               | there that even if just 0.05% of it is any good then
               | that's a vast amount of new high quality content to enjoy
               | and learn from.
               | 
               | I would take today's internet-fuelled media landscape
               | over the landscape of 20 years ago in a heart beat.
        
               | fatherzine wrote:
               | I am fairly torn on this topic. The statement is mostly
               | an admission that I'm too weak to not personally waste
               | too much time on trite Internet content.
               | 
               | The question I often ask myself: is spending time with
               | this content, while entertaining in the short term,
               | perhaps via the novelty factor, also nourishing in the
               | long term? The answer is, sadly, much more frequently NO
               | than in the time of printed books.
               | 
               | The best I can hope is to be able to use Internet as an
               | encyclopedia for laser-focused lookups. Sadly, I am too
               | often caught in browsing random content only loosely
               | related to the original lookup topic.
        
         | anonAndOn wrote:
         | This thought occurred to me recently while skimming the
         | formulaic and indistinguishable programming on Netflix. It
         | won't be long before a GPT-3 script is fed to an image
         | generator and out comes the components of a movie or TV show.
         | The product will undoubtedly need some human curation and voice
         | acting, but the possibility of a one-person production studio
         | is on the horizon.
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | And it will probably suck just as bad as any of the low-
           | effort formulaic movie or music that humans like to produce.
        
           | flycaliguy wrote:
           | It makes me wonder if all these musician's catalogs that have
           | been purchased as a whole lately are even more powerful than
           | before. Owning a piece of every bit of media that contains a
           | slice of David Bowie for example would be extremely valuable.
           | 
           | Consider the gaming world's concept of "whales". Customers
           | willing to spend disproportionately enormous amounts of money
           | in game. Can you sell these whales a unique, personalized
           | David Bowie album that is about, I don't know, maybe the
           | customer's own life story?
        
           | cercatrova wrote:
           | You're right, it's already on Show HN right now.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Doubt it - but it will become another great tool for artists to
         | use.
        
         | kasperni wrote:
         | Take a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/ if you want
         | to see what midjourney is capable of. Some of them are
         | extremely impressive [1][2][3][4]
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/x0kv8s/testp_ju...
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/wz1am0/homer_si...
         | 
         | [3]
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/x10som/the_amou...
         | 
         | [4]
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/midjourney/comments/x12nqz/robert_d...
        
         | paisawalla wrote:
         | Agreed, it really does not seem far off now to imagine a world
         | where I can request artifacts like
         | 
         | "This episode of Law & Order, but if Jerry Orbach never left
         | the show"
         | 
         | "Final Fantasy VII as an FPS taking place in the Call of Duty
         | universe"
         | 
         | "A 3D printable part that will enable automatic firing mode for
         | {a given firearm}"
        
         | time_to_smile wrote:
         | > toy-era seeds
         | 
         | I think what we have is a toy and will remain a toy, just like
         | Eliza was 60 years ago. Academically fascinating, and given the
         | constraints of the era, genuinely remarkable, but still a long
         | way from really being useful.
         | 
         | I'm already getting bored of seeing 95% amazing 5% wtf AI
         | generated images, I can't fathom how anyone else remains
         | excited about this stuff so long. My slack is filled with
         | impressive-but-not-quite-right images of all sorts of
         | outrageous scenarios.
         | 
         | But that's the catch. These diffusion models are stuck creating
         | wacky or surreal images because those contexts are essential
         | allowing you to easily ignore how much these generates miss the
         | mark.
         | 
         | Synthetic AI media won't even been as disruptive as photoshop,
         | let alone the creation of written language.
        
           | flycaliguy wrote:
           | No matter what happens, it sure is thrilling to witness this
           | debate. You might be right, you might be wrong.
           | 
           | Personally I think a line can now be drawn that starts at the
           | first cave drawing and ends in 2022. Something has
           | fundamentally shifted, a true paradigm shift before our eyes.
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | > I've been making a completely Midjourney-generated
         | "interactive" film called SALT
         | 
         | I stumbled over Midjourney the other day through these music
         | videos[1][2] generated by Midjourney from the songs lyrics, and
         | I immediately thought we're not far away from this being viable
         | for a cartoon-like film.
         | 
         | Interesting times ahead.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bulNXhYXgFI
         | 
         | [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVj_AEhpVbA
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | andruby wrote:
       | It must be interesting being a graphic artist in 2020-2022. First
       | NFT's that enabled some to make millions of dollars. Less than 2
       | years later, Stable Diffusion, which will probably shrink the
       | market significantly for human graphical artists.
        
       | poisonborz wrote:
       | Just imagine - you could write your own script of a series and
       | have it realistically generated, especially cartoons, complete
       | with voice acting. Popular generated Spongebob episodes could
       | form canonical entries in the mind of the general public - after
       | some information fallout, original episodes couldn't be even told
       | apart. Postmodern pastiche will accelerate and will become total.
        
       | danso wrote:
       | Tangent discussion: What are people's here experiences with
       | running Stable Diffusion locally? I've installed it and haven't
       | had time to play around, but I also have a RTX 3060 8GB GPU --
       | IIRC, the official SD docs say that 10GB is the minimum, but I've
       | seen posts/articles saying it could be done with 8GB.
       | 
       | Mostly I'm interested in the processing time. Like, using a
       | midrange desktop, what's the average time to expect SD to produce
       | an image from a prompt? Minutes/Tens of minutes/Hours?
        
         | sarsway wrote:
         | It's pretty fast on a RTX 3070 (8GB), a few seconds per image.
         | 
         | My first impression is it seems a lot more useful then DALL-E,
         | because you can quickly iterate on prompts, and also generate
         | many batches, picking the best ones. To get something that's
         | actually usable, you'll have to tinker around a bit and give it
         | a few tries. With DALL-E, feedback is slower, and there's
         | reluctance to just hammer prompts because of credits.
        
           | foobiekr wrote:
           | I was blown away when I got DallE access, but now it seems
           | almost silly by comparison. I really wonder why the DallE
           | team chose to expose so few controls.
        
         | Morgawr wrote:
         | I have a Titan X (Pascal) from like 2015 with 12GB of vram and
         | I've had no trouble running it locally. I'd say it takes me
         | about 30 seconds maybe to generate a single image on a 30ddim
         | (which is like the bare minimum I consider for quick
         | iterations), when I want to get more quality images after I
         | focus on a proper prompt, I set it to like 100 or 200 ddim and
         | that maybe takes 1 minute for one picture (I didn't accurately
         | measure). I usually just let it run for a few minutes in bulk
         | of 10 or 20 pictures while I go do something else then come
         | back half 15-20 minutes later.
         | 
         | It runs pretty well but the most I can get is a 768x512 image,
         | but it's pretty good for stuff like visual novel background
         | art[0] and similar things.
         | 
         | [0] - https://twitter.com/xMorgawr/status/1564271156462440448
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | I had to get a different repo with "optimized commands" on the
         | first day, but my 3070 8GB has been happily processing images
         | in decent time.
        
           | nbutyllithium wrote:
           | I decided to set up a local instance yesterday with my 3070
           | TI 8GB and had similar success, about 10 seconds per image at
           | the default settings. Like you I also opted for a different
           | repo [0] which emphasized adding a GUI but I think also opts
           | out of the watermark addition/other checks. Sounds like it
           | reduces memory usage from what others have said. Had more
           | trouble coming up with creative prompts then getting set up
           | surprisingly (to me anyway).
           | 
           | [0] https://github.com/hlky/stable-diffusion
        
             | nickthegreek wrote:
             | This helped me with prompt generation:
             | https://promptomania.com/stable-diffusion-prompt-builder/
        
             | wccrawford wrote:
             | I found it very easy to set up, too. I had a previous
             | couple things I set up that were a _lot_ harder to set up.
             | Stable Diffusion has been dreamy. I 'm already tempted to
             | upgrade my setup to one of these with the GUIs, but I think
             | if I wait just a bit longer, it's going to get even better.
             | So I'm resisting the urge.
        
         | cbozeman wrote:
         | Removing the NSFW and watermark modules from the model will
         | easily allow you to run it with 8 GB VRAM (usually takes around
         | 6.9 GB for 512x512 generations).
         | 
         | With an RTX 3060, your average image generation time is going
         | to be around 7-11 seconds if I recall correctly. This swings
         | wildly based on how you adjust different settings, but I doubt
         | you'll ever require more than 70 seconds to generate an image.
        
         | chrismorgan wrote:
         | ASUS Zephyrus G15 (GA503QM) with a laptop 3060 (95W, I think)
         | with 6GB of VRAM, basujindal fork, does 512x512 at about 3.98
         | iterations per second in turbo mode (for which there's plenty
         | of memory at that size). That's under 15 seconds per image on
         | even small batches at the default 50 steps, and I think it was
         | only using around 4.5GB of VRAM.
         | 
         | (I say "I think" because I've uninstalled the nvidia-dkms
         | package again while I'm not using it because having a
         | _functional_ NVIDIA dual-GPU system in Linux is apparently too
         | annoying: Alacritty takes a few seconds to start because it
         | blocks on spinning up the dGPU for a bit for some reason even
         | though it doesn't use it, wake from sleep takes five or ten
         | seconds instead of under one second, Firefox glyph and icon
         | caches for individual windows occasionally (mostly on wake) get
         | blatted (that's actually mildly concerning, though so long as
         | the memory corruption is only in GPU memory it's _probably_
         | OK), and if the nvidia modules are loaded at boot time Sway
         | requires --unsupported-gpu and my backlight brightness keys
         | break because the device changes in the  /sys tree and I end up
         | with an 0644 root:root brightness file instead of the usual
         | 0664 root:video, and I can't be bothered figuring it out or
         | arranging a setuid wrapper or whatever. Yeah, now I'm
         | remembering why I would have preferred a single-GPU laptop, to
         | say nothing of the added expense of a major component that had
         | gone completely unused until this week. But no one sells what I
         | wanted _without_ a dedicated GPU for some reason.)
        
         | orangecat wrote:
         | I'm using the fork at https://github.com/basujindal/stable-
         | diffusion which is optimized for lower VRAM usage. My RTX 2070
         | (8 GB) takes about 90 seconds to generate a batch of 4 images.
        
         | mlsu wrote:
         | I have a dated 1070 with 8gb of vram, some of which also
         | renders my desktop.
         | 
         | I was able to obtain 256x512 images with this card using the
         | standard model, but ran into OOM issues.
         | 
         | I don't mind waiting, so now I am using the "fast" repo:
         | 
         | https://github.com/basujindal/stable-diffusion
         | 
         | With this, it takes 30s to generate a 768x512 image (any larger
         | and I am experiencing OOM issues again). I think you should
         | expect a bit faster at the same resolution with your 3060
         | because it's a faster card with the same amount of memory.
        
         | cube2222 wrote:
         | RTX 3080 (10GB) here
         | 
         | Keep in mind to have the batch-size low (equal to 1, probably),
         | that was my main issue when I first installed this.
         | 
         | Then, there's lot's of great forks already which add an
         | interactive repl or web ui [0][1]. They also run with half-
         | precision which saves a few bytes. Additionally, they
         | optionally integrate with upscaling neural networks, which
         | means you can generate 512x512 images with stable diffusion and
         | then scale them up to 1024x1024 easily. Moreover, they
         | optionally integrate with face-fixing neural networks, which
         | can also drastically improve the quality of images.
         | 
         | There's also this ultra-optimized repo, but it's a fair bit
         | slower [2].
         | 
         | [0]: https://github.com/lstein/stable-diffusion
         | 
         | [1]: https://github.com/hlky/stable-diffusion
         | 
         | [2]: https://github.com/basujindal/stable-diffusion
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | folli wrote:
       | Funny of Reddit banning the mentioned Subs in a short amount of
       | time.
       | 
       | Some years ago, the pendulum was very much on the other side.
        
         | yreg wrote:
         | Is it known what killed those subs? Was it content based on
         | actual people (celebrities)?
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | I thought I saw someone mention that a Vice article linked to
           | them, and possibly reddit didn't want people thinking they're
           | going to be hosting a repository of "fake nudes of non-
           | consenting people"
           | 
           | I took a quick look at the subreddit before it was banned and
           | I don't think I saw any real people represented. It was a lot
           | of video game or anime style characters. And one of Shrek
           | with a massive dong.
        
         | andybak wrote:
         | Mentioned where? The linked article only mentions Reddit once
         | and that link resolves fine.
        
           | LordDragonfang wrote:
           | I think this comment was meant to be a reply to the Vice
           | article posted elsewhere in this thread
        
         | SXX wrote:
         | Reddit want to become public company so it's very much expected
         | result.
        
           | frozencell wrote:
           | Strange how the same specie who killed its cofounder are the
           | same who lead it now.
        
             | desindol wrote:
             | Oh come it's the same with twitter he liked the prospect of
             | making lots of money and now he screams foul.
        
               | hackernewds wrote:
               | who?
        
             | optimalsolver wrote:
             | He was a co-founder in name only. He was forced on the
             | actual founders by Paul Graham.
        
       | stephc_int13 wrote:
       | AI generated art is interesting and will probably be helpful.
       | 
       | I see it as a cheap and fast alternative to paying a concept
       | artist.
       | 
       | But not a revolution. Creating precise and coherent assets is
       | going to be a challenge, at least with the current architecture.
       | 
       | From a research perspective this is, I think, much more than a
       | toy, those models can help us better understand the nature of our
       | minds, especially related to their processing of text, images and
       | abstraction.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | I think what it shows us that activities that we think of as
         | "human", like getting drunk, saying silly things that sound
         | brilliant, or painting things that look stunning are actually
         | the things that a machine has least trouble to copy.
         | 
         | Whereas things we associate more with computers, such as hard
         | thinking, mathematics, etc. turn out to be more difficult to
         | copy by a machine, and therefore perhaps more "human".
        
         | cududa wrote:
         | I've dismissed DALL-E - very cool, but won't really replace
         | everyone. After playing with Stable Diffusion, as an artist,
         | this is the most profound experience I've ever had with a
         | computer. Check this out https://andys.page/posts/how-to-draw/
        
       | timost wrote:
       | One use case I have in mind is manga drawing. I wonder if anybody
       | has tested manga related generation.
        
         | ronsor wrote:
         | You can coax it to generate whole manga pages. The only
         | downside is the text and story is incoherent, and the
         | characters are inconsistent.
        
       | ebabchick wrote:
       | can someone recommend a good paper or blog post with an overview
       | of the technical architecture of training and running stable
       | diffusion?
        
         | dreamcompiler wrote:
         | https://ommer-lab.com/research/latent-diffusion-models/
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | motoboi wrote:
       | Take a moment to appreciate the fact that in 4,2Gb (less than
       | that actually) you have the English language somehow encoded.
       | 
       | This is mind blowing.
        
         | CWuestefeld wrote:
         | I've been playing with it a bit, and I also find the
         | information theory aspect absolutely amazing. It's more than
         | just the English language that's encoded there. It's also
         | encodes information about characters and the styles of
         | countless artists. I just cannot fathom how all this
         | information fits in that space.
        
           | nickthegreek wrote:
           | Agreed. My wife plays animal crossing, so I had stable
           | diffusion do some animal crossing prompts and was blown away.
           | This 4gb file understand how all the textures on the objects
           | in this game should look. Then I turned around and was
           | generating liches on thrones in the styles of the painting
           | masters. This is absolutely mind blowing to me.
        
       | revskill wrote:
       | 7 days trying to install python and their packages and failed.
       | Have to remove those garbages , global dependencies from my
       | machine. Such a waste of ecosystem.
        
         | andybak wrote:
         | I know several semi-non-technical people that have got this
         | running locally.
        
           | revskill wrote:
           | Yes, i wish i had same luck as theirs. Sometimes, i think
           | they're genius!
        
             | andybak wrote:
             | If you're on Windows this is by far the easiest way:
             | https://softology.pro/tutorials/tensorflow/tensorflow.htm
             | 
             | Mostly-automated installer.
        
         | gigel82 wrote:
         | I'm using the Docker one, so much easier and no worries of
         | polluting my real environment (all the installation scripts
         | tend to download a variety of things from a variety of places).
        
         | CWuestefeld wrote:
         | It took me some time to get the OpenVivo distribution running
         | on my Windows box. It turns out that it wasn't compatible with
         | Python 3.10, I had to go back to 3.9. Maybe that'll help you?
        
         | akshayKMR wrote:
         | Try this one with the docker image instead:
         | https://github.com/AbdBarho/stable-diffusion-webui-docker
        
         | marc_io wrote:
         | I found it surprisingly easy to run it on a 2015 MacBook Pro.
        
           | gregsadetsky wrote:
           | How long does it take you to generate an image? What
           | setup/fork are you using for this? Thanks
        
         | digitallyfree wrote:
         | Openvivo Stable Diffusion (CPU port of SD) is a easy install on
         | Linux within a venv. Be sure to update Pip first before
         | installing the required packages from the list. The lack of GPU
         | acceleration and the associated baggage makes this much easier
         | to set up and run.
         | 
         | https://github.com/bes-dev/stable_diffusion.openvino
        
         | drexlspivey wrote:
         | Someone on reddit made a single self contained .exe with a GUI
         | (haven't tested it)
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/wwh1s9/jus...
        
       | throwaway888abc wrote:
       | The collaboration,pace and progress is stunning. If this can
       | applied to other fields such climate change etc.
       | 
       | Great write up
        
       | gillesjacobs wrote:
       | 7 days and already that many UIs, plugins and integrations
       | released. To be fair, developer/researcher access was a bit
       | earlier but that is impressive adoption speed.
        
         | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
         | > 7 days and already that many UIs, plugins and integrations
         | released.
         | 
         | That's because you can use it to make porn. Don't underestimate
         | the motivational power of being able to easily create porn.
        
           | cbozeman wrote:
           | This is the easy answer, but I don't think this is the right
           | answer.
           | 
           | The right answer, I'd argue, is that this was Prometheus
           | giving fire to the mortals, and then the mortals quickly
           | discovered everything that could be possible with fire.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | xor99 wrote:
           | Haha, yes it is the energy that sustained the internet after
           | all
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | They forgot to mention the porn one..
       | 
       | https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgygy4/stable-diffusion-stab...
       | 
       | Why'd they "overlook" it? Probably more culturally significant
       | and controversial than any of the others. It's the natural
       | elephant.
        
         | Workaccount2 wrote:
         | I will not even be slightly surprised when in 10 years we get
         | stats like
         | 
         | "60% of all image generation compute power used for making NSFW
         | material"
        
           | chestervonwinch wrote:
           | idiocracy is becoming increasingly prophetic
        
           | kgwgk wrote:
           | I would expect the % of image generation compute power used
           | for making NSFW material to come down over time, just like
           | the % of home video minutes or digital photographs used for
           | making NSFW material went down over time.
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | Or maybe something like "60% of all power on earth".
           | 
           | I can't yet decide if it's going to be extremely appealing or
           | quickly get [even more] boring and repetitive.
        
             | codetrotter wrote:
             | As someone who stopped looking at porn about two months
             | ago, after years of porn use, I can tell you: it's going to
             | be highly subjective.
             | 
             | I used to watch porn basically daily. But then after
             | finally deciding to stop watching porn, the idea of porn
             | itself is downright off putting to me. I don't even quite
             | know how or why. It just is.
             | 
             | And I imagine it will be the same for others with AI
             | generated porn.
        
             | ajsnigrutin wrote:
             | Technically you could get porn of that one exact weird
             | turnon you have, that there is literally zero porn existing
             | now (except if you pay for a costum video/photoshot).
             | 
             | Is this good? maybe... maybe not. Since most of the
             | "normal" stuff already exists, it'll either be something
             | "too extreme" for classic porn studios, or stuff using non
             | porn people to turn into ai-porn stars.
        
             | gpm wrote:
             | My 3 year old GPU generates one image every ~5 seconds, and
             | according to the documentation draws 215 watts at a maximum
             | steady state load (TDP). That's very roughly a kilowatt
             | second per image.
             | 
             | The internet tells me that a 2022 honda civic takes about
             | 0.07 liters of gas per km. And it also tells me that that
             | is equivalent to 2394 kilowatt seconds. I.e. 2394 images on
             | a 3 year old GPU per km travelled using a new and fuel
             | efficient model of car...
             | 
             | I'm not worried about this consuming a significant fraction
             | of the power on earth.
        
               | guhidalg wrote:
               | I agree with your analysis, but I don't think that's how
               | most people interpret global compute power consumption.
               | The stored energy in the gasoline is not counted in
               | global energy production figures, but the electricity
               | used to power your GPU is.
        
               | fifticon wrote:
               | I appreciate your energy comparison, and it makes sense
               | to me.
        
               | DeRock wrote:
               | I mean, its not hard to imagine where this goes next:
               | video (and eventually 3d/VR scenes). Say 60fps -> 2394
               | frames/60fps = 40 seconds. That's equivalent to driving
               | your car at (3600 seconds per hour / 40 seconds / km) ==
               | 90 km/hr. Yes, your GPU is older, but there will also be
               | pressure to increase the resolution and fidelity of the
               | generated content to match.
        
               | atq2119 wrote:
               | It really feels like for 3D the better quality/compute
               | trade-off would be to have the ML model generate 3D
               | models and animations, and then use a more traditional 3D
               | rendering pipeline (by then with ray tracing and
               | denoising).
        
               | gpm wrote:
               | Ok, sure, maybe there's demand there. But how would the
               | logistics work out so that it managed to become a
               | problem?
               | 
               | Are people
               | 
               | a) Waiting 5 seconds/frame * 60 fps = 5 minutes / second
               | for a video to generate on their personal computer, and
               | doing this constantly enough that it manages to become a
               | problem?
               | 
               | b) Buying computers that can do it real-time, but
               | therefore output vastly more heat, requiring thermal
               | management system akin to a car driving at highway speed?
               | 
               | c) Renting these computers at considerable cost to make
               | these videos?
               | 
               | As long as enough people watch each video (or one person
               | watches it enough times), the energy usage washes out to
               | become negligible compared to the amount of human time
               | invested. I just can't see a world where enough people
               | are managing to consume a kw minute/second producing
               | videos for themselves to watch only once or twice that it
               | becomes an issue.
               | 
               | Personally I'm optimistic that energy/compute is going to
               | continue going down substantially (in which case even
               | real-time video generation might not be an issue). If it
               | doesn't and we don't become substantially better at
               | efficiently synthesizing video, I can't see personalized
               | single use video generation being a thing.
        
               | DeRock wrote:
               | > a) Waiting 5 seconds/frame * 60 fps = 5 minutes /
               | second for a video to generate on their personal
               | computer, and doing this constantly enough that it
               | manages to become a problem?
               | 
               | There will be much more compute resources thrown at it to
               | make it render in real time. We're not there yet, but I
               | can see a path to that happening in the next few years.
               | 
               | > b) Buying computers that can do it real-time, but
               | therefore output vastly more heat, requiring thermal
               | management system akin to a car driving at highway speed?
               | 
               | Why not? We already have billions of cars driving around
               | outputting heat. Its an incredible expenditure of energy,
               | sure, but perhaps the value of generated content
               | entertainment will match the value of car transportation.
               | 
               | > c) Renting these computers at considerable cost to make
               | these videos?
               | 
               | I imagine longer term, the opex (i.e energy costs) will
               | dominate the capex (GPU HW). The price of going into a
               | generated world could be similar to going for a drive.
               | 
               | > As long as enough people watch each video (or one
               | person watches it enough times), the energy usage washes
               | out to become negligible compared to the amount of human
               | time invested. I just can't see a world where enough
               | people are managing to consume a kw minute/second
               | producing videos for themselves to watch only once or
               | twice that it becomes an issue.
               | 
               | This is where I strongly disagree. The democratization of
               | skills and tools in creating content will break the one
               | to many media model. You saw this in a large way in what
               | the internet did to content distribution, in how the
               | number of independent people creating content
               | skyrocketed. These models will do the same for content
               | creation. I predict most people will consume content
               | personally generated for themselves or in small groups.
               | 
               | Here's an example: a group of friends puts on their VR
               | headsets for their weekly DnD session. The DM begins
               | describing the scene, which autogenerates around them.
               | Each character can then respond with their own actions /
               | path, and the scenes react dynamically. The hour session
               | costs them $10 in compute/energy.
               | 
               | I'm mostly spitballing. I would imagine that we still
               | have a couple of orders of magnitude reduction in energy
               | costs that can be squeezed out of these models with
               | improvements in specialized HW. But it will be matched
               | against the insatiable demand of consumers for richer
               | interactivity in content.
        
           | prophesi wrote:
           | I also wouldn't be surprised if 60%+ of the training data is
           | NSFW when it's not filtered out.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | > "60% of all image generation compute power used for making
           | NSFW material"
           | 
           | Or 80% of all NSFW viewing happens at work.
        
         | ShamelessC wrote:
         | > Why'd they "overlook" it?
         | 
         | It appears to be a site for AI art, so there's that.
        
         | isatty wrote:
         | This will be the majority use case for tools like this. I
         | suppose this also extends rule 34 - even if it does not exist,
         | there will be porn of it.
        
         | polisteps wrote:
         | Hi, I'm the creator of multimodal.art, I didn't overlook it,
         | but there's no "specialized" NSFW content maker to be
         | highlighted - this Vice articles just show people using the
         | model in different iterations to generate NSFW content; you
         | don't need a specialized notebook/tool for that, a few ones on
         | the post can do it (others have a NSFW filter that comes in by
         | default).
         | 
         | Additionally it is important to note that model was licensed
         | under the OpenRAIL-M LICENSE which is not as permissive as an
         | MIT license and forbids certain outputs to be shared or
         | purposes to be built as apps
        
           | LordDragonfang wrote:
           | >there's no "specialized" NSFW content maker to be
           | highlighted
           | 
           | Unless I'm misunderstanding you, yes there is, and it was
           | even posted on HN last week:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32572770
           | 
           | (And yes, many of its results are horrifying)
        
             | GaggiX wrote:
             | No, this is just Stable Diffusion without any modification,
             | no fine-tuning is needed to create nudes.
        
           | lxe wrote:
           | I thought only the "derivatives of the model" are under the
           | user restrictions in the license, and are very permissive.
           | The outputs of the model are very briefly covered in the
           | license text
           | 
           | > You are accountable for the Output you generate and its
           | subsequent uses. No use of the output can contravene any
           | provision as stated in the License.
        
       | coding123 wrote:
       | In 30 years everything AI generates will be a red circle, because
       | at that point it will have just trained on itself repeatedly.
       | 
       | Instead of labeling data for what things are, we'll have to label
       | things as being generated or not.
        
       | ok_dad wrote:
       | I guess we know where the new market for all those Ethereum
       | miners' GPUs will come from. I have always been sort of bear-ish
       | on the trend towards throwing GPU power at neural nets and their
       | descendants, but clearly there are amazing applications for this
       | tech. I still think it's morally kinda wrong to copy an artist's
       | style using an automated tool like this, but I guess we'll have
       | to deal with that because there's no putting this genie back in
       | the bottle.
        
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