[HN Gopher] Remotely Controlled Lawn Tractor
___________________________________________________________________
Remotely Controlled Lawn Tractor
Author : ziggy1911
Score : 124 points
Date : 2022-08-30 12:08 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (offthegrid.dev)
(TXT) w3m dump (offthegrid.dev)
| dvh wrote:
| The difference between robot and a machine is that robot perform
| useful work.
| mlsu wrote:
| I understand that this is a hack project (so doing for the sake
| of doing).
|
| But if I were going to create an autonomous/RC anything, I would
| start with Ardupilot [0], which has off-the-shelf support for a
| lot of what's implemented here, like mapping, waypoint
| management, and even state estimation/control. You can buy a
| computer that can do all of this for pretty cheap.
|
| [0] https://ardupilot.org/rover/
| mhb wrote:
| Looks great. An enhancement to the kill switch might be to make
| it a normally open relay which needs to keep receiving a command
| to keep it closed. So that when power or communication fails it
| stops instead of requiring power to activate the kill switch.
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| Yes; any system that can kill you should be using dead-man's
| switch, requiring no positive input to halt, but positive input
| to continue.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| I'll be sure to keep your wisdom in mind next time I have to
| reset the way too conservatively sized circuit breaker
| integral to the contractor that runs in my fume extractors.
|
| Damn near anything can kill you. Context matters. In most
| cases a consumer lawnmower should probably have a deadman
| switch. Plenty of people have been hurt or killed over the
| years by poorly thought out fail "safes". It's easy to make
| low effort online comments about safety but when someone
| comes along and re-uses your widget in a use case you don't
| expect your assumptions may not hold. You rarely have the
| context to determine what's safe unless you know the end
| situation in which the equipment will actually operate. For a
| lawnmower you do. When you start generalizing your control
| system and applying it to other stuff you don't.
|
| Absolutist rules of thumb are worth what you pay for them.
| rascul wrote:
| > In most cases a consumer lawnmower should probably have a
| deadman switch.
|
| It's under the seat. With nobody in the seat, that had to
| be modified for this mower.
| swayvil wrote:
| They've got them on push mowers too. You gotta keep a
| handle gripped for the mower to run. Let go and it stops
| hinkley wrote:
| One of the complications of this is that it's very hard
| to hold the switch on certain types of terrain.
| Objectively, well over 80% of that terrain is situations
| where you have no business running a lawnmower in the
| first place, and so 'good!' is mostly the correct
| response to such complaints. But it's still a pain in the
| ass in other situations, like cornering past bushes.
|
| Me, I just don't have grass anymore. Fuck grass. It's a
| bunch of bougie bullshit from a line of the French
| Aristocracy who ultimately wound up with their heads in
| baskets. Maybe we shouldn't be copying them.
| causi wrote:
| What is this screed even trying to say? "Someone might
| reuse your failsafe in a way that actually makes it
| dangerous"? Then it's not a failsafe anymore and the second
| designer is an idiot. Like with the firehose example, it
| isn't the pumping that will kill you it's the not-pumping,
| therefore your failure state should halt the not-pumping.
| Syonyk wrote:
| > * I'll be sure to keep your wisdom in mind next time I
| have to reset the way too conservatively sized circuit
| breaker integral to the contractor that runs in my fume
| extractors.*
|
| You might enjoy the NEC section on fire pump systems. It's
| a complete flip from the rest of NEC, requiring design
| around "Keep the fire pumps running at all costs, even if
| you're in the process of melting down the windings."
| Separate wiring conduits, handling full locked rotor
| current indefinitely, etc.
|
| The logic, reasonably enough, is that if the fire pumps are
| running, you probably have way, way bigger problems that
| will be made worse if your fire pump system trips off to
| protect the wiring.
| ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
| On that topic, the Cathode Ray Dude posted a really
| interesting video yesterday talking about battle-shorts,
| a mechanism used to circumvent power relay fail-safes in
| military equipment. There were some interesting comments
| about other cases like the fire pump systems you
| mentions.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpJ_6LCly4A
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| This is really pedantic. The rule is any system that risks
| serious harm to a person in the course of normal operation
| should be fail-safe, not fail-dangerous.
|
| Examples include stuff with blades, hammers, or swinging
| arms moving at high speed or with great force.
| Maxion wrote:
| Yep there's a reason why all lawn mowers have a dead-man
| switch.
| tuatoru wrote:
| *should have
| logifail wrote:
| > The rule is any system that risks serious harm to a
| person in the course of normal operation should be fail-
| safe, not fail-dangerous.
|
| I used to work in a Chemistry lab, one in which one of my
| lab-mates once had a explosion while he heated something
| which wasn't what he thought it was.
|
| I was the guy who phoned for the ambulance (and got the
| fire service included for free, but maybe that makes
| sense if you work in a lab). I went to the front entrance
| to meet the firefighters as instructed, after identifying
| myself they asked me "do you have anything dangerous in
| your lab?"
|
| I was probably still high on the adrenaline (there had
| been a fairly loud bang and the glass side windows of my
| colleague's fume hood were blown out) but I recall being
| unable to answer that question. I think I eventually said
| "Yes, of course we have dangerous stuff, you have
| anything particular in mind?"
|
| Context really does matter!
| fallingmeat wrote:
| +1
| dangus wrote:
| I wonder if OP considered any alternatives to a manicured
| monocultured lawn?
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I'd replace my entire lawn with some short plant that never
| needs trimming if I could get away with it. The problem is I'm
| in an urban area and everyone else with a yard has grass.
| logicallee wrote:
| I'd like a house one day, feel free to email me your ideas.
| FounderBurr wrote:
| Amazing what can be accomplished by smashing together a bunch of
| trash off AliExpress and GitHub.
| trhway wrote:
| Now add some armor, machine gun and antitank missile, and it can
| be used in Ukraine. Ukrainian army has lack of heavy hardware
| compare to Russia, and there is no way to build it up quickly,
| and i wonder whether a fleet of cheap light armored remote
| controlled or [semi]autonomous vehicles can be even a better way
| to fight modern war.
|
| And of course there is a very close task to mowing - de-mining,
| and there are already huge swaths of land there freed back from
| Russia which need demining, and there would be a lot more in the
| near future.
| sleepdreamy wrote:
| Incredible read. As someone who has a similar issue, maybe I can
| pick up where you left off? Feel free to reach out if you want to
| tinker more!
| Overtonwindow wrote:
| There are a couple of remote lawnmowers on the market. I'm
| surprised given what we can do with AI that they are not in wider
| use. I think I might have kept my house with a small yard if I
| could have just turned on the iMow and let it go.
| bradley_taunt wrote:
| I have 1.2 acres and run the Husqvarna 450X on my property. The
| boundary and guide wires were embedded into the lawn itself.
|
| Been running this mower for 5 summers now and little to no
| issues. Blades need to be changed every 2-3 months depending on
| conditions. Overall it has saved me probably hundreds of hours
| on manual mowing.
| H1Supreme wrote:
| > I'm surprised given what we can do with AI that they are not
| in wider use.
|
| If your yard has any relatively steep parts, they fail. I was
| 100% ready to buy one, only to discover I would still be mowing
| 30-40% of my yard by hand. I suspect there's a reason most of
| the demos are on completely flat yards.
| matt_attack wrote:
| Let me introduce you to RC slope mowers:
| http://www.rcmowersusa.com/
| schemescape wrote:
| How much does something like that cost?
| akovaski wrote:
| Following one of the dealer links, looks like it is about
| $60,000 for a new one. https://www.bobcatofyork.com/defau
| lt.asp?page=xInventoryDeta...
| matt_attack wrote:
| The cost varies by cut width (44" is quite a bit cheaper)
| but yeah, it's very commercial oriented. It's intended
| for people who need to mow difficult slopes day in and
| day out.
|
| I'm not aware of really anything capable intended for
| homeowners besides a good ol' push mower.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| There are homeowner-class track mowers that are designed
| for steep slopes. Our property is pretty hilly so I keep
| telling myself that when my Husqvarna riding mower
| finally dies (it's only 16 years old) I'll buy an
| electric one. Unfortunately that Kawasaki motor just
| keeps on going and I keep repairing everything else.
| duxup wrote:
| They seem really limited at this point. It seems to be out that
| outdoors is surprisingly inconsistent / has a lot more
| exceptions than indoors. And even those that use small blades
| still have a fairly high bar safety wise to overcome.
|
| An early model years ago was able to tip over and keep running
| before it was recalled ... not the kind of thing you want
| sitting out on your lawn or the sidewalk.
| wowokay wrote:
| That is true, it is frustrating that times have changed to
| the point where innovation in this scale is hampered under
| the guise of safety.
| ape4 wrote:
| https://www.homedepot.com/b/Outdoors-Outdoor-Power-Equipment...
| LinuxBender wrote:
| That's some great work and a really good write-up.
|
| I could see practical uses well beyond a lawn mower. This would
| be very handy in really hot or cold weather with just about any
| large tractor that is not enclosed and does not have air
| conditioning or heating. No more breathing exhaust and no more
| being exposed to the weather. For large farm equipment one would
| still need a person near by in the event things get tangled up in
| the equipment such as barbed wire snagged up into discs but that
| is an acceptable trade-off to me.
|
| As a bonus, no more being locked into newer tractors. If I could
| put this remote control on my 1947 Fordson tractor it would now
| be put to work with automation and for fun the neighbors would
| think it's a ghost tractor. Probably the tricky part is dealing
| with the stiff clutch and finicky gear shifting. I imagine it
| would get some looks from the tourists passing by on the highway.
| ziggy1911 wrote:
| Overview of converting an old lawn tractor to a remotely
| controlled and immersive drone-like experience. The tractor gets
| equipped with video cameras, sensors, microcontrollers, wifi, and
| experimental augmented reality feature. A web interface with a
| head-up display and a gamepad allows for the control of the
| tractor from any device.
| 83 wrote:
| With this kind of setup we can finalize outsource our lawn
| mowing to India ;)
| ed312 wrote:
| When you consider the large # of people who _pay money_ to
| play Farm/Driving simulators, this might actually be an ideal
| job for some folks.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| You're laughing but this will probably happen, together with
| large scale automation. Labor costs are still a _significant_
| portion of costs [0, see "Labor Cost Share of Total Gross
| Revenues"].
|
| [0] https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-labor/
| ed25519FUUU wrote:
| My solution to a large lawn was a walkable perennial garden.
| [deleted]
| TheCondor wrote:
| I was touring Ireland in 2019 and saw a Spider lawnmower mowing
| the top of Newgrange. Pretty cool, it could go up fairly steep
| slopes
|
| https://spidermowerusa.com
| andrewtbham wrote:
| That is awesome. I have wanted to do this for an electric mower.
| And maybe eventually train it to drive itself with ML. You could
| even start a service to cut yards and use the public records of
| the lots to set a boundaries for the yard.
| tstrimple wrote:
| Have you seen OpenMower?
|
| https://github.com/ClemensElflein/OpenMower
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Have you looked at what's available on the market? I don't know
| if they still need a wire around the lawn to set the boundaries
| these days though.
|
| That said, these things doing the rounds around a neighbourhood
| would be cool. But then, so would street sweepers and weeders.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://www.scytherobotics.com/
| samatman wrote:
| There's an Ardumower project, I'm intending to work on building
| one over the winter.
|
| I dream of far more sophisticated home garden robots, but would
| settle for farming out the basic haircut to a robot.
| bradstewart wrote:
| I would definitely buy a Roomba for my lawn (assuming it worked
| well). Obviously more safety concerns than a vacuum cleaner,
| with the spinning metal blades and all, but seems doable.
| fennecfoxen wrote:
| Existing lawn robots still mostly rely on a buried cable to
| form a boundary-line. The next generation vision/lidar/gps
| systems are clearly in development but not commercially
| available in the US (the Segway NaviMow is available in
| Europe).
| ftrobro wrote:
| Husqvarna EPOS does not need physical boundary wires and
| seems to be available in the US too:
|
| https://www.husqvarna.com/us/discover/epos/
| fennecfoxen wrote:
| That's new -- but those are still $5000 models "designed
| for professional fleet use", a little on the steep side.
| I'd give it a little longer for that to percolate
| downmarket towards the likes of the Navimow which is
| around the EUR1500 level.
| samatman wrote:
| This year was the tipping point for the US market, they
| weren't readily available until late summer. I'll have a
| (ground) wireless lawn robot next year one way or
| another, it would bring me more satisfaction to build one
| but that doesn't mean I'll actually do it.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Cool!
|
| Now if only it could hitch and unhitch implements, load and
| unload a wagon, back up and see behind. Then it could be useful!
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| to me, this is the future of technology I am interested in.
| Primarily, small scale technology that can be meshed up together
| to create awesome results.
| lettergram wrote:
| I wanted to do the same with but with a large agricultural
| tractor.
|
| I think we are nearing the point where a camera can monitor my
| body movements and mimic it fairly accurately in a robot. Combine
| that with gloves for hand tracking, VR goggles, audio headsets
| and maybe haptic feedback and we can effectively have remote
| experiences.
|
| Once that's the case, you put a robot in a tractor seat; add a
| bunch of cameras (for VR), microphones (for audio), and a couple
| robot arms with humanoid hands attached
| (https://www.psyonic.io/ability-hand).
|
| I can then remotely control the tractor in VR space, but have it
| operate 100 miles away
| avgDev wrote:
| I can't wait to drive your tractor in a sim.
| wongarsu wrote:
| I understand why you would do it, but using robot arms to
| control another robot seems like a lot of accidental
| complexity. Surely there has to be a generation of tractor
| that's new enough that most functions are exposed on CANbus but
| old enough that it isn't locked down yet?
| lettergram wrote:
| my actual thought was if I could get it to work - big if - I
| could then move it to literally any tractor.
|
| Effectively, I'd have a massive market.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| I think the biggest problem you'd run into is that people
| are cheaper than your automation. A 16 year old will run
| your tractor all day for minimum wage.
| lettergram wrote:
| Yeah and be able to attach items, no doubt. But I kind of
| just want it for the fun nature of it.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| The lockdowns are only for the user-facing diagnostic port.
| I'm not aware of any vehicle that uses encryption &
| authentication on the inner buses. Your only challenge is to
| reverse-engineer the meaning of the messages.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| What if you ripped out all the control electronics, leaving
| only the actuators, and replaced the control circuits with
| off the shelf parts? I expect it might cost a pretty penny,
| but it should be doable right?
| Nextgrid wrote:
| At least for engine management that's definitely doable,
| there are off-the-shelf ECUs for race/custom cars that
| are meant to be used like this (configurable via USB so
| you can tune every parameter).
|
| For everything else you will most likely need to go
| custom but it's absolutely possible.
| bri3d wrote:
| Some modern vehicles with FlexRay have full-bus encryption,
| and very modern CAN systems usually use HMAC for security
| sensitive stuff like immobilizer and key commands. I think
| ADAS systems will probably use similar in the coming years
| as vendors become more concerned and upset with system
| tampering.
|
| But, yeah, overall, most vehicle control systems are far
| less evil than people seem to think. I think part of the
| issue is that the "vehicle hacking" community have managed
| to massively over-hype basic protocol / message reverse
| engineering.
| sgt wrote:
| Just remember to run it only during the day, so you protect
| hedgehogs etc. I have seen some pretty nasty damage on hedgehogs
| based on lawnmowers automatically mowing at night.
| caradine wrote:
| No mention of how it handles obstacles; sticks, rocks, holes,
| small animals, etc. I mowed lawns for several years as a teenager
| using riding mowers similar to this. I can't count the number of
| times I had to stop, get off, move a stick so it doesn't jam the
| blades, move a rock so it doesn't get flung into a nearby
| window...or even just slow down because the grass was too thick
| for the mower to handle. It strikes me as having some of the same
| issues my robot vacuum has. When I have to constantly get it
| unstuck from a lamp cord or a loose rug, it starts to become more
| trouble than it's worth.
| pmontra wrote:
| I had my share of pain with those obstacles. That was my first
| thought when I saw this project.
|
| The workaround, which I didn't implement yet, is to build a
| smooth and clean garden. Of course branches fall, ants build,
| all sort of animals dig, bushes grow id you give them a couple
| of weeks at the wrong time of the year, etc.
|
| That lawnmower is also much bigger than mine.
| orionion wrote:
| The neighbor lady toss rocks on your lawn from working in her
| flower bed. Neighbor kids leave toys, tennis and golf balls
| and... claw hammers!!! (forgotten in the grass after building
| their secret day fort in your back yard). Wine bottles from
| the other neighbors garden party. A hiking boot from... I
| have no idea!!! And don't forget stuck sprinkler heads. Spray
| paint cans from the local juvenile delinquents... On and
| on...
| googlryas wrote:
| It sounds like you have some really horrible neighbors. Not
| the neighbor kids but everyone else.
| EddySchauHai wrote:
| I don't know what's more impressive, this tractor or the fact the
| author has worked a single dev job for 17 years after graduating
| lol
| z9znz wrote:
| Cool project, but why mow it all in the first place? Do yourself
| and absolutely nature a favor and let it grow. We need every
| patch of natural land we can get, as biodiversity and insect
| populations are continually decreasing.
|
| Mow some patches for the humans (because standing in a buggy tall
| field is just no bueno), but leave the rest for nature. Rent or
| borrow some goats or sheep if you really want it kept lower; at
| least you'll end up with richer soil that way.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >but why mow it all in the first place?
|
| Because providing convenient habitat for grass dwelling rodents
| adjacent to your home will result in some fraction of them
| trying to move in.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| Adding to this: depending on where you live, the rodent issue
| is made worse by the vipers they attract. I generally don't
| mind snakes, rat snakes are actually quite nice, but I think
| most people don't want to worry about a rattlesnake nipping
| their heel when they step out their front door. This is made
| worse by the selective pressure humans place on rattlesnakes
| to discourage rattling (those that rattle get noticed and
| killed.)
|
| I think there are probably better ways to address this
| problem than mowing grass right up against your house though.
| Ringing your house with mulched gardens or even gravel
| patches (particularly french drains, in areas prone to
| flooding) is a good alternative, presuming you don't have a
| HOA forbidding it..
| [deleted]
| stinos wrote:
| Depending on where you live those rodents won't do any harm
| though. Or simply leave again because the cannot find food,
| which is like the #1 thing to deal with in case of rodents.
| Moreover you'd need a serious amount of 'deadzone' around
| your house before rodents won't cross it, no? It's not like
| they only can cover distances of few metres. All in all, this
| type of claim should be backed by research :) Curious if
| there is any.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > Depending on where you live those rodents won't do any
| harm though. Or simply leave again because the cannot find
| food, which is like the #1 thing to deal with in case of
| rodents.
|
| > All in all, this type of claim should be backed by
| research :) Curious if there is any.
|
| Yes, any evidence for your claims would be appreciated. Are
| there places where mice/rats aren't considered a disease
| vector?
| stinos wrote:
| _Are there places where mice /rats aren't considered a
| disease vector_
|
| All species? I actually don't know. But with 'depending
| on where you live' I also menat situations like mice
| entering your unused basement etc.
|
| Anyway: I'm mainly questioning whether 'long vegetation
| around my house means more chance of rodents in my house'
| is something general. Also because it's not my
| experience. Then again I don't live in, say, Australia.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| > _situations like mice entering your unused basement
| etc._
|
| This is a bad situation, if anybody ever goes in that
| basement for any reason ever, they're at risk of catching
| numerous diseases from the rodent feces they stir up into
| the air by walking around. Hantavirus is spread this way,
| and Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome kills about a third of
| the people who catch it. There is no reason to accept
| this risk if you have any other choice.
| z9znz wrote:
| There is a concept of zones. You make zones 0 and 1 very
| human friendly. Beyond that you gradually transition from
| aesthetic and food growing toward wild nature.
|
| I'm not suggesting you wade through waist high weeds as you
| walk out your front door. But if you looked at the photo of
| the original post, you would see the plot being mowed
| appeared to be just a pasture well beyond habitation.
| stinos wrote:
| I completely agree with your point - pretty much everyone is
| now properly aware of the climate crisis but for a bunch of
| reasons biodiversity crisis doesn't ring a lot of bells let
| alone people are willing to do anything about it. However:
| depending on where you live not mowing at all turns your meadow
| into a rough wilderness with only a couple of plant species
| (think nettles+blackberries) in no time, and later on into
| forest. Main reason being nitrogen deposition leading to those
| species simply outgrowing the rest, as is the case for e.g.
| quite a lot of areas in western Europe (visuals in [1] for
| example).
|
| So as far as biodiversity goes: there's enough of the typical
| 'no mowing' vegetation already whereas ecosystems like flower-
| rich meadows are in decline. Currently and practically for
| laymen this can only be countered by mowing and removing
| cuttings. Depending on soil type and what's in it fertlizer-
| wise about twice a year. Preferrably, as you mention, still
| with mowing patches instead of everything at once in order to
| maintain some habitat for the fauna. Still a lot less time and
| money consuming than maintaining a lawn.
|
| [1]
| https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=nitrogen+deposition+map+eur...
| z9znz wrote:
| That's the thing about nature. It has immensely complex
| programming that we don't understand. Often a "plague" of one
| thing exists to rebalance another thing.
|
| If unmanaged nature does run wild with one or a few species,
| at some point they overstay their welcome and get rebalanced.
|
| Of course the final equalizer is fire. And that's something
| that we as humans really dislike, because it burns our work
| (and homes and sometimes even us) down. So we prevent it. But
| completely left to itself, nature does tend to stabilize
| after some period.
|
| As for western Europe, I live in Netherlands. The nitrogen
| problem is entirely manmade (animal farming waste). Were we
| to stop ranching at such high densities and producing
| unnatural levels of animal waste, the nitrogen levels would
| not be nearly so high.
|
| I have also lived in plant farmland areas in the south of
| Holland, and we have plagues of burning weed that grows. But
| it turns out, that plant grows in places with excess
| nitrogen. It feeds on it and eventually draws it out of the
| soil. After a few years, that "weed" stops growing and the
| soil nitrogen levels are more normal.
|
| At this moment I am in central Portugal trying to grow some
| trees. The thorny vines (blackberry brambles I believe, but I
| just don't keep up with the names) are a huge problem.
| However, they provide benefits in dry soil because they grow
| very well, provide shade, provide food for foraging animals,
| and help prevent soil erosion when the rains finally come.
|
| Nature doesn't seem to be concerned with human comfort. I
| f*cking hate the vines, but I do see their purpose.
|
| After some years of study of permaculture and actual
| experiments, plus a decent amount of reading, I think our
| best hope as humans is to develop high efficiency vertical
| farms and to keep our actual earth footprint low... and to
| start devoping subterranian habitation.
|
| On the last point, it's really a wonder to have a home which
| stays around 68F all year. Heat it up just a little and it is
| cosy. It is fire-proof, ultra efficient, and it can still be
| light with skylights and a south/west facing opening.
|
| Honestly, for a fraction of the mental energy we spend on
| designing scalable software systems, we could make livable
| earth-friendly human food ad habitation systems. This is not
| rocket science; after all, primative civilizations already
| figured out some of these things.
| z9znz wrote:
| Sorry to make two posts, but also...
|
| In commercial farmlands, even in "progressive" countries like
| the Netherlands, the insect friendly unmowed zones are
| present but very minimal compared to the commercial
| farmlands.
|
| By my estimation, the unmowed insect strips are 1/50th or
| less than the crop areas.
|
| It is good to see that roadside zones are being allowed to
| grow a bit taller. As drivers, it's actually a negative
| because it makes seeing around curves more difficult, but it
| absolutely results in more wild flowers and insects. It's
| quite beautiful too.
| samatman wrote:
| Personally, I don't want to be fined by the city. It's a poor
| reason but a sufficient one.
|
| I maintain a lot of habitat in the back, but the front has to
| stay high and tight. My neighbors prefer it as well, you can
| change a culture but should think carefully before defying it.
| stevehawk wrote:
| I love the idea of this because I hate lawn maintenance. But the
| idea of letting software I wrote run around with whirling blades
| of death underneath of it would keep me from doing it.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| A solution could be to just secure the area well enough to
| guarantee that 1) an uncontrolled machine can't escape and 2)
| people don't enter the area. Then you don't particularly care
| if the machine is "unsafe" if there's no way it can harm
| anyone.
|
| That's the approach most industrial robots take - instead of
| trying to deal with humans and not hurt them, just make sure
| there are no humans within reach of the robots.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| That works great in industry, indoors. Outside you are going
| to have animals. I have a few acres that I mow and find new
| nesting animals pretty much weekly. Some of them can fly, and
| the migratory ones (which I do not personally know how to
| spot aside from a few recurring visitors) are legally
| protected. Sometimes they run away as they approach,
| sometimes they want to defend. Either way I do my best to go
| around and leave them their patch.
| stevehawk wrote:
| > 2) people don't enter the area
|
| That's harder than it should be. No amount of asking my
| neighbors has kept their kids out of my fenced lawn to
| retrieve their soccer balls. Which is actually an issue
| because one of my dogs is not particularly friendly. I'd
| gladly kick the ball back over if they just knocked on the
| door. We're not a neighbor-hate-neighbor situation, we
| actually get along quite well, but kids will be kids.
| ericd wrote:
| An 8 foot mesh deer fence should do the trick ;-) it'll
| also rebound lots of those balls that would otherwise head
| into your yard.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| Asking isn't enough, but proper fences should both make it
| impossible to get in without significant effort and also do
| a good job at containing the machine should it try to run
| away.
|
| It's up to you to run the numbers whether the cost of
| securing the area is less than what you spend (in terms of
| time/inconvenience/etc) manually mowing the lawn.
| scarby2 wrote:
| Coming from the UK I'm always amazed that many (suburban)
| Americans don't have 6-8 ft fences surrounding their back
| yard.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| On the other hand, if everyone's yard is accessible, it's
| unlikely that _yours_ will be the one subject to anything
| bad so I guess it 's a number's game.
| vl wrote:
| They already make robotic lawn mowers. You can go and buy one
| right now.
| mandross wrote:
| I totally agree! Mower safety was also one of my worries once.
| It can be deadly even without software controlling it. A few
| days back in Poland a mower threw a piece of wire straight into
| a boy's heart (the kid is all right now). That being said,
| there is no way for the operator to constantly monitor what is
| happening around the mower. A set of sensors and software can
| be better at it. We can install cameras and LIDARs all around
| the mower and take care of safety better than humans do. There
| are challenges though: 1. You need to design the system in a
| way it fails safe. There is no explicit norm on how to do that
| yet. We can adapt existing norms from machine and robot safety
| for that purpose, but we risk missing something. 2. All the
| specification efforts right now are going in the direction of
| humans supervising software. The RC-controlled/autonomous mower
| is supposed to be always watched by someone. Firstly, humans
| suck at supervising stuff, it is a very boring and frustrating
| task, during which it is easy to get tired and lose focus.
| Secondly, people will quickly find a better task to do in the
| meanwhile: trim the hedge, do the detailing, do some weeding,
| while the mower is doing fine :) 3. Safe vision systems are
| expensive. It is hard to support a 360 deg. field of view for
| both cameras and LIDARs at a competitive cost. There is a huge
| temptation to reduce the BOM cost to compete with human labor.
| Now it is time for a shameless plug: personally, I am involved
| in making an autonomy kit for z-turn mowers. It is not an easy
| task.
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| I don't know if it helps but the super cheap flysky rc system
| (common budget option on rc aircraft) has failsafe functionality
| built in. You configure which outputs should be in which state
| during failsafe and it can be triggered by being out of rc range
| (i.e. experiencing unexpected interferance) or by toggling a
| switch to select failsafe deliberately.
| the_third_wave wrote:
| We had the same problem of grass growing heedlessly but solved it
| in a different way. We got a bio-fuelled autonomous self-
| propelled lawn management solution which intelligently solves the
| problem without the need for any programming, all it needs is for
| us to demarcate the area in need of maintenance with some special
| white band. Even though it is more than 30 years old it does the
| job just fine. It doesn't just cut the grass and weeds but
| processes them into fertiliser as well. It can be used
| autonomously but it is also possible to control it although the
| limited carrying capacity limits ride-on control to smaller
| persons - children up to the age of about 10. It is called 'a
| horse' - a small-ish Welsh mountain pony to be exact.
| coip wrote:
| I heard the autopilot on those is p good
| yardie wrote:
| > a small-ish Welsh mountain pony
|
| I thought it was a goat at first.
| the_third_wave wrote:
| The control logic on those is flawed which makes them
| incapable of distinguishing between the lawn and the laundry.
| carapace wrote:
| Issat one of them fancy nanotech models that can generate
| physical copies of itself internally, no factory needed? Those
| things are so cool.
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