[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How do you get side gigs?
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Ask HN: How do you get side gigs?
I'm a senior backend dev (Go mostly) and feel like I could be doing
more in the evenings, when my kids are in bed, to make a few extra
PSPS. I have no interest in under-selling myself on fiverr etc, so
how do you find the work?
Author : jinglejangley
Score : 201 points
Date : 2022-08-30 11:19 UTC (11 hours ago)
| surfskatr wrote:
| Build a free tool with a decent community of users in a field
| you're good at / interested in. Some of your users will naturally
| ask if you're available to freelance for them on adjacent
| projects.
| halfjoking wrote:
| If you build such a tool with a decent community, why not add a
| Premium version and charge money for it?
|
| If you already have some software and an active community, you
| did all the hard work for an SaaS. What's the advantage of
| focusing on individual client needs at that point instead of
| expanding the tool and getting customers?
| SamuelAkinosho wrote:
| A very good strategy is working with Software service companies
| based on contracts if you're after not under-selling yourself.
| julienchastang wrote:
| You can just work two jobs at once ;-) During the pandemic and
| the WFH era, some employees have taken on two positions at the
| same time keeping this secret from both employers. Here's a funny
| WSJ article about this https://archive.ph/DGQrA. Quote from that
| article:
|
| "It's 100% overwhelming, and my wife's like, 'How long can you do
| this?' " he says. But "every other Friday, when those paychecks
| drop, I am reinvigorated."
| tpae wrote:
| Can you actually do decent work in the evenings? If you can't
| commit enough hours to complete projects, don't bother.
| jenscow wrote:
| Yeh, I wouldn't be comfortable hiring anyone doing this -
| especially for something critical.
|
| I've worked evenings once. It's always tempting to think "well,
| I'm doing nothing anyway" but actually, you're recharging.
|
| Even if you're normally coding on your own stuff, same applies.
| rossdavidh wrote:
| So, no claims that I'm an expert at this, but...
|
| The part-time thing has two kinds, in my very limited experience.
| One, is doing maintenance on something you used to work on full-
| time. You already know the code base, you just don't need to be
| doing full-time work on it. If you were good to work with,
| previous employers might have a use for you on a part-time basis.
|
| The other kind, is going to be the fiverr-type thing, where your
| pay rate is not competitive.
|
| So, leveraging past employment (or coworkers who went on to other
| places, who know you know the thing they need a bit of extra help
| on) is, again in my very limited experience, the way to do it.
| One more reason to be nice to people, even at places you have
| decided to leave, or they have decided to leave.
| core-utility wrote:
| Toptal.com. Pain in the ass evaluation process, but it's
| worthwhile to get through.
| domlebo70 wrote:
| What sort of rates do you get?
| core-utility wrote:
| I'm on the "DevOps" side which tends to demand less $ from
| what I hear, but I get between $90 and $130/hr for hourly
| gigs (my preference). There's also Part-Time and Full-Time
| gigs that guarantee 20 hours and 40 hours per week
| respectively.
| domlebo70 wrote:
| Yeah nice. What was so painful about the application
| process?
| sph wrote:
| Be prepared to have to do off-screen and later screen-
| shared, timed leetcode challenges. Fail one, it's an
| automatic disqualification.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| Thanks, I think I'll give up on my desire to have side
| gigs now.
| leviathan wrote:
| I'm not sure where you got that info from, but unless you
| completely tank everything, there isn't an automatic
| disqualification. Even if you fail two out of three
| questions, you'll still get a chance to meet with the
| screener.
| sph wrote:
| Source: myself.
|
| I did all tests in half the required time, 100% success
| rate, had a bug during the interview with the screener,
| in the last of 5 overall I've done, I probably could've
| fixed it with 2 more minutes but no, I failed and was
| asked to practice leetcode puzzles and apply again one
| month later.
|
| Yeah, I don't think I will.
|
| The thing that bugs me the most is it was obvious the
| interviewer wasn't an engineer. There weren't able to
| tell how close I was to the solution. I dunno, that
| method might work in some cases, but I've been doing
| software engineering for 16 years. I guess I'm not good
| enough.
|
| Also fuck having to solve puzzles with a timer with
| someone looking over your shoulder. I have done emergency
| "servers are on fire" maintenance in the middle of the
| night for big customers and it's less stressful than
| that.
| d0100 wrote:
| For me the screen-shared leetcode/React challenge was
| stupid easy, I failed in the later take home project
| because I half assed it (no testing/CRUD validation)
| jules wrote:
| What was the take home project about?
| domlebo70 wrote:
| Hmm, i just cbf with leetcode grinding again.
|
| What about for a React/frontend role. Surely no leetcode
| gear54rus wrote:
| It's probably just "'a' + 1 + null , what's the return
| value?" :D
| sph wrote:
| NaNNaNNaN Batman?
|
| https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
| doix wrote:
| I mean that one is pretty easy; 'a1null' , first thing is
| a string so it'll try to concatenate with 1, coerce 1 to
| a string and get 'a1' then same thing will null. Makes
| perfect sense ;p
| DecayingOrganic wrote:
| Here's a detailed explanation for the application
| process: https://www.toptal.com/top-3-percent
| core-utility wrote:
| It's almost like a full job interview process with many
| parts. Keeping details minimal because of NDA, I had 3
| "rounds" including online assessment and video
| interviews.
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| Jeez.
|
| Which networks still exist that do not require this large
| upfront timesuck (regardless of how well it may filter
| candidates)?
| core-utility wrote:
| I'd say all in all I put maybe 10 hours into it, which is
| far less than I do for a typical job interview prep.
| Given that this has brought me numerous clients, it was
| worth it for me.
| Clent wrote:
| Agreed.
|
| Of all the solutions our industry can provide, why cannot
| we not solve for if someone is performant in the
| industry?
|
| Trades figures this out centuries ago.
|
| However, our industry retains a hint of mystery. A
| magical sauce that cannot yet be taught.
|
| But more importantly, a level of some mystery remains
| that cannot be detected without forcing the recruit
| through a rigorous course. Its biggest attrition being a
| the large potential for no return.
| edf13 wrote:
| > Trades figures this out centuries ago.
|
| The difference with "us" is that our skills are still
| evolving - and quickly in many spaces.... The tools
| change, the methods change and the skill sets are
| constantly evolving to match.
| jnwatson wrote:
| If you think that's a large time sink, try business
| development. Seriously marketing yourself takes s lot of
| time.
| powerhour wrote:
| Do you still have to go through interviews with clients?
| If so, how onerous are those?
| core-utility wrote:
| I do, it really depends on the client. I like working
| with small businesses and most of those are just a quick
| conversation about what they're looking for.
| mancerayder wrote:
| I interviewed there and they gave me a big project that would
| have taken several days to complete. Call me arrogant, but I
| couldn't work for free like that. Additionally all the
| interviewers were from extremely low cost of living countries,
| whereas I live in one of the highest cost of living areas in
| the US.
|
| I had the impression that you have to bid yourself down to
| catch work over there due to that discrepancy. There are people
| in Eastern Europe more qualified than me, willing to work
| harder than me, at 1/3 the cost of me. Thus I preferred local
| contract hunting.
| core-utility wrote:
| They give you a project that's supposed to take 8 hours, with
| a loose definition so you can take your own approach to it.
| Having been through the process, the project is definitely
| not something they'd take and use for themselves, it's a
| really basic test of aptitude.
| wofo wrote:
| Can confirm, currently using them as a backup (I managed to get
| a rate that was attractive enough, but I prefer working without
| intermediaries)
| goodpoint wrote:
| I heard a number of complains that Toptal is not worth the time
| investment anymore.
|
| Anybody of that opinion here?
| LanceH wrote:
| I'm billing $100+/hr with Toptal. I'm currently 0 hours
| available and they check on my availability every week with
| possible contracts.
|
| Yes, the interview process is a bit long, but opportunities
| have been non-stop for several years in a row now.
|
| Never an issue with pay, although it can border on 6 weeks in
| arrears due to billing cycles with the client and bi-weekly
| deposits from Toptal.
| yolo3000 wrote:
| As a dev or more on the ops side? How long are the
| contracts? When you get a client, do they place you in a
| team with internals, or is there another setup? I guess
| toptal is like an intermediary, global scale, and they
| screen/test their freelancers.
| LanceH wrote:
| Programmer.
|
| It has varied from me being the only person working on it
| to full time work.
|
| It's been easy enough that I've always taken 2, 20
| hour/week jobs so that I don't lose all my employment at
| once when one ends. It's never been a problem picking up
| the next contract.
|
| I've never worked with anyone else from Toptal, though I
| have been the replacement.
|
| I haven't been using them for a while, but it's been non-
| stop inquiries from them, even though I've set my
| availability to 0hr/wk.
| core-utility wrote:
| When I started the process years ago, I only saw bad things
| about Toptal. Went through anyways and have only good things
| to say. The most vocal are always the negative, and a lot of
| them were people who never got through the selection process.
| YMMV, but my experience is positive.
| donatj wrote:
| My website has a number of self-services tools on it that are
| helpful but you have to have a decent idea of what you're doing
| to begin with to make use of them.
|
| Under the tools I've got a link to my contact form for people who
| need more help.
|
| I used to get quite a decent bit of work through this to the
| point I was turning people away. It's kind of dried up in the
| last couple years though.
| k__ wrote:
| You could write about backend development. There are content
| agencies that always look for devs that can write.
| jinglejangley wrote:
| Yeah, I maintain a couple of blogs but they are strictly not-
| for-profit as I believe information should be free.
|
| Thanks though :)
| k__ wrote:
| Well, the content you write will usually freely available.
| synu wrote:
| Everyone I've ever hired for a side gig has been a recommendation
| from someone I know, so I assume it must be something to do with
| networking.
| irsagent wrote:
| An idea would be bug bounties. They are great for free time,
| because you can always do it on your own time, and in the end you
| can get paid for submitting bugs. Bugcrowd and hackerOne are
| great platforms to do such bug bounties.
| hprotagonist wrote:
| luck and networking, just like my day job
| dudeinhawaii wrote:
| Make sure it's something you really want to do since it may
| consume all of your free-time for weeks or months at a time.
| Don't be me..
|
| Midway through my career I was given a golden opportunity to
| side-gig consult for a project that could have launched a
| consulting business. Instead, after an excellent presentation and
| client interest -- I laid out some numbers that were very high.
| You see, I had (and still have) a very high valuation for my free
| time. The customer balked but remained intersted and offered a
| counter. I told them it was non-negotiable and terminated without
| providing a counter-offer. I ended up embarrassing my colleague
| who had given me the opportunity to pitch to an exec team of a
| golfing buddy.
|
| In the end, it was no harm done (I was working for FANG) but I
| learned that I valued my free time far too much to work a side
| gig unless it was a startup of my own design.
| zamfi wrote:
| For anyone who doesn't want to repeat this experience: you can
| almost always come down in cost, by also coming down in scope
| -- and retain your hourly rate.
|
| I can't speak to the project above, but typically starting with
| a smaller-scoped project at the original high rate is a good
| way for both sides to evaluate whether the relationship is
| working without a huge commitment.
| ethereal-haze wrote:
| https://www.toptal.com/
| varispeed wrote:
| I was doing a couple of side gigs when I was younger. It was a
| total nightmare. Ended up feeling like doing two full time jobs,
| being absolutely exhausted and then not having much extra money
| to show for it (the taxes are brutal).
|
| As where did I find those - at the time it was gumtree or word of
| mouth.
| fredwu wrote:
| I have found my last few freelancing gigs by posting my
| availability in Slack groups. As an Elixir dev I posted in an
| Elixir-specific Slack group. I also post in the HN monthly
| threads but I haven't gotten many leads from those.
|
| It also helps if you have an established profile, e.g. an active
| Github profile with open source contributions.
| jinglejangley wrote:
| Thanks :)
| bdcravens wrote:
| Codementor is a place where you can get a fair rate for calls
| helping others out. Oftentimes they can turn into extended gigs.
| umen wrote:
| do micro saas
| noloblo wrote:
| we need go dev part time fully remote is fine
| rahulrangaraj wrote:
| I'm working on an initiative for freelancers by curating good
| quality freelance jobs from many different sources - job boards +
| Slack Communities + LinkedIn + Twitter feeds etc, filtering them
| and sharing the best leads with freelancers. It will be helpful
| if you are a freelancer or an agency. Feel free to ping me[2] if
| you would like to get alerted when we launch soon [1]
|
| [1] ->
| https://twitter.com/RahulrangarajR/status/148021905157812224...
|
| [2] -> https://twitter.com/RahulrangarajR
| waylandsmithers wrote:
| This isn't actual advice; I'm sure many of us get plenty of
| emails from recruiters, and I've always wondered if you could
| build a book of business as a freelancer by replying to them that
| you're looking for contract work.
| jjevanoorschot wrote:
| Unless you already have top of market compensation, I'd focus on
| interviewing for a higher paying job rather than do more work on
| the side.
|
| Going by the PSPS signs I'm assuming you can get a job in London,
| where you can make >PS200k total compensation as a good software
| engineer.
| [deleted]
| jinglejangley wrote:
| I'm already earning near that compensation, was just looking
| for something on the side as well :)
| rrwo wrote:
| If you are already earning near that, then unless you have a
| pressing need to earn more money, I'd do something else with
| your free time.
| buzbe_uk wrote:
| This may be unpopular here, but be really clear what you want
| out of your job.
|
| If you're just talking side gigs be really clear this doesn't
| interfere with your own job performance. The first target you
| hit because of your "side gig" will be your downward spiral.
|
| Now .. running your own business is another option. For me I
| encourage my staff to have "side gig" of their own business,
| but will not sign off on them contracting on the side.
|
| One is a valuable option where you learn new skills - the
| other is...
| swamp40 wrote:
| > For me I encourage my staff to have "side gig" of their
| own business, but will not sign off on them contracting on
| the side.
|
| I'm not clear on how that works. Could you provide an
| example?
| ygjb wrote:
| I will provide a concrete example, even though I am not
| the parent commenter. I work for a FAANG company in a
| reasonably senior role. I have carveouts in my employment
| contract that I negotiated when I started a few months
| ago, because in addition to my day job, I co-own a
| coworking space with my wife (and she owns other
| businesses that I do some light tech work for - site
| maintenance, office network, etc).
|
| My day job is very demanding, but my leadership team are
| aware, and the HR folks at my employer have documentation
| that supports me having a side business, and so if I say
| things like "I have to go the bank/lawyer stuff for my
| business", no one bats an eye as long as I am hitting my
| targets for the day job.
|
| The expectation is that I will largely be available and
| focused on my day job during the 9-5, and where needed,
| provide support on escalations/on-call.
|
| If I started taking on consulting contracts or was
| regularly juggling contracting or side-job related tasks
| against my day job, then it wouldn't be a good fit for
| delivering on that 9-5.
| pc86 wrote:
| > _For me I encourage my staff to have "side gig" of their
| own business, but will not sign off on them contracting on
| the side._
|
| Imagine believing that you have the right to "sign off" on
| what your employees do in their free time provided they're
| not directly competing with you.
| ulrashida wrote:
| It's a simple legal ass cover. Should the manager / lead
| care if there's a side gig in play while all other needs
| are being met? No, of course not. However, what if the
| side gig becomes a bit more than planned and now your
| team member isn't delivering, gets sick more often, or is
| otherwise grinding themselves into the ground (and
| doesn't recognize the need to get out of that situation)?
|
| You can care about your team member's welfare and support
| them 100%, but part of that support should be defining
| the rules of play so that all parties know what the
| agreement is.
| ISL wrote:
| Some employers proffer, and employees enter into,
| contracts of this type.
| tremon wrote:
| It's not imaginary, it's called copyright. In many
| jurisdictions (including the US, FAFAIK) your employer
| retains the copyright of things you produce in your free
| time that fall within your job description (e.g. if you
| might have done the same thing on company time).
|
| So if you have a side gig that matches your day job _and_
| your work output is covered by copyright: yes, you need
| your employer 's sign-off.
| ChrisRR wrote:
| How much more money do you need if you're on 200K? That's
| already like 3-4x the salary of a dev in the UK
| kjellsbells wrote:
| Cant speak for the UK, but all it takes is a disabled child
| or other complex life situation and the numbers suddenly
| arent so rosy. I refrain from asking anyone "why do you
| need more money?" - its their business alone.
| varispeed wrote:
| This is my pet peeve - why so many people here in the UK
| strive for mediocrity? Do we really got rid ourselves of
| any ambitions? When you admit to earning more than PS35k
| you are supposed to feel sorry and apologise for trying and
| if you are over PS80k people look at you as a privileged
| money pinata, that ideally should be taxed at 100% and keep
| head down in shame.
|
| For instance, I have been working on a product in my spare
| time and I don't want to finance it through loans or giving
| up equity. Having PS200k job (only PS9,500 net per month)
| would get me closer to get the required tools, inventory,
| securing a rent for the workshop and storage, but that
| still not really too much money for that kind of endeavour.
| Unfortunately I am coming from a poor working class and I
| don't have a rich daddy to fund my start up, yet when
| people learn how much I earn they think I am rich, but
| reality is that kind of money is not enough to make
| anything sensible with it (you still have to save for years
| and live modestly), but people think it's the level of
| private jets and heated pool in a large back garden of a
| mansion.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| Making a value judgement on someones financial ambition is
| a little ... weak.
|
| Does it really matter? I'm on PS200k gross in the UK,
| outside London ... but i'm not done climbing that mountain.
| Of course PS200k is "enough" for anyone, but that doesn't
| mean you can't aim higher.
|
| Ambition should be celebrated
| giantg2 wrote:
| "Ambition should be celebrated"
|
| I might agree with this depending on what the specific
| goal is. But why should ambition be generally celebrated?
|
| There is certainly ambition that has brought about
| improvement in life. There has also been ambition applied
| to the wrong ends or failing that has brought suffering.
| I'm not sold on the idea that the goal of continually
| increasing comp above an already luxurious level is
| meaningful or worth a third party celebrating. I
| especially feel this way about our industry where comp
| seems detached from the contributions are not easily
| attributed/calculated.
| nerdponx wrote:
| It is perfectly valid to believe that OP is probably
| overpaid in their day job, and also to believe that they
| are entitled to seek a side gig if they prefer.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Ok... that has nothing to do with my comment. Of course
| they're entitled to want a side gig. But why is ambition
| something to be celebrated, especially in the context of
| this example?
| ghaff wrote:
| >Of course they're entitled to seek a side gig.
|
| With the caveat that no small number of companies are not
| OK with that if it could be perceived as competitive in
| any way.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Thanks, I changed it to "want".
| yojo wrote:
| In theory (and in a well functioning system), ambition in
| a populace leads to GDP growth as ambitious people seek
| ways to make more money by doing higher value work. This
| in turn leads to a higher standard of living, possibly
| for everyone if you redistribute some of the surplus via
| taxation schemes.
|
| Personally (and more selfishly), I tried to raise my
| salary to be able to afford not working for extended
| periods of time.
| giantg2 wrote:
| That makes sense. I'm wondering more about net benefit.
| Is it really a benefit if our GDP rose if we spend
| increasing amounts on stuff like healthcare and have
| shorter lives due to the constant grind of work? I'm not
| sure we can answer these questions, but I agree with you
| that as long as the ambition is properly placed and the
| system works well that it would be good.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| Personally, I enjoy doing any activity that makes my bank
| balance increase. I see it as a puzzle. I enjoy puzzles.
| sokoloff wrote:
| From 168 hours that we all start with in a week, if
| someone wants to spend 20 of them making their and their
| family's lives better, why wouldn't we generally
| encourage that? I certainly wouldn't discourage it and I
| could be neutral on it, but if I think about, I'd rather
| they work on a side gig than watch Netflix, doom-scroll,
| or watch TikToks.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I think the part we're disconnected on is "better". Will
| a couple extra grand a year make their family's life
| better beyond the amount they already have? Perhaps
| physical exercise or relaxing provides more benefit. Of
| course we probably can't answer this as it's specific to
| each individual.
|
| I suppose I'm in the camp that finds it skeptical that it
| would be much benefit at that level. I might also view it
| as a negative to society as that gig could go to someone
| who needs it more. Granted we would then be admiring the
| ambition of the lower earner, which brings me back to me
| saying that the specifics matter more than generally
| celebrating ambition.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Most every tech job in the world could go to someone who
| needs it more. That doesn't make me discourage people
| from taking tech jobs, nor do I plan to retire when I
| have the minimum amount needed for a modest retirement.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "Most every tech job in the world could go to someone who
| needs it more."
|
| Based on the struggle to hire qualified candidates, it
| seems this is an unrealistic view. Also, there is a
| difference between someone having a single job, and
| someone double dipping.
| Joeboy wrote:
| I'm just genuinely intrigued as to why someone on PS200k
| would want to work more. maybe there's a good reason,
| like they're an "earn to give" person, or some actual
| ambition the money will help fulfill, or some expensive
| health need etc. Maybe they'd like to spend less time
| with their family. Just wanting to exchange more of your
| life for more money seems weird to me, if you're already
| in a position to be able to live in luxury.
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| Two viable possibilities:
|
| 1. It's about the money, because you never know when you
| may have a 5-10 year underproductive period due to
| health/other unforeseen emergency.
|
| 2. It's not about the money, it's about the
| experience/knowledge gained/distraction/self-worth of
| accomplishing more.
| Joeboy wrote:
| > it's about the experience/knowledge
| gained/distraction/self-worth of accomplishing more
|
| To me, a side gig means accomplishing more of what
| someone else wants, with the trade-off of being _less_
| able to accomplish (or learn about, or distract yourself
| with) what _you_ want. Which seems like an odd thing to
| want unless you need the money. I suppose for some people
| having a PS200k income and not needing the money seem
| less synonymous than they do to me.
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| Sometimes people see others' goals as helpful to their
| own.
|
| See: John Carmack at FB.
| castlecrasher2 wrote:
| >I'm just genuinely intrigued as to why someone on PS200k
| would want to work more.
|
| The money outcome isn't a zero-sum game. If someone works
| more, they can put that towards their children's
| education fund, retirement or other investments, or
| anything else at all.
| returningfory2 wrote:
| In the neighborhood of New York City I live in, buying a
| 2 bedroom apartment requires you to have a higher yearly
| income than $250k (~= PS200k). The simple desires of (a)
| wanting space for family and (b) wanting to live in a
| specific place, can push you to want to earn higher
| salaries.
| Joeboy wrote:
| Yeah you're right actually, glancing at Rightmove (UK
| property site), and going by the standard 4.5x mortgage
| test, you're probably not going to get a decent family
| home in Central-ish London on PS200k. Shit's fucked up.
|
| Edit: To be clear the repayments on a PS1m mortgage would
| "only" be like PS60k a year, you only need PS>200k to
| initially buy the place.
| eliseumds wrote:
| Yep. And PS200k/y is about PS120k/y net. That'd be tough
| for a family with kids.
| xwdv wrote:
| Ambition is the enemy of consistency.
| sokoloff wrote:
| 10s of thousands of years of integrated ambition have
| helped ensure that we are not consistently living
| outdoors.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| So?
| goodpoint wrote:
| > Ambition should be celebrated
|
| Only if you mean skill growth and self improvement.
|
| But pure greed - no, we have more than enough of that.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| I want to work hard at my axe throwing skills so I can
| hit targets more accurately.
|
| That will help me become a better axe murderer since
| people are less likely to see me. Still wanna celebrate
| my skill growth?
| rhn_mk1 wrote:
| I can get behind celebrating ambition, but only if it
| doesn't as a side effect involve widening wage inequality
| in the society.
| tdehnel wrote:
| Oh stop it. Every time we make progress there will be
| some unequal effect. Some people will benefit and others
| will lose out. We should do our best to balance the trade
| offs, but to say someone shouldn't be ambitious if there
| is some unequal effect is preposterous and pessimistic.
| CrazyPyroLinux wrote:
| I'm reminded of Margaret Thatcher's response to this:
| "He'd rather the poor were poorer, as long as the rich
| were less rich."[1]
|
| Every _ethical_ dollar earned is a byproduct of value
| creation. Maybe you meant something more like "as long
| as he's not ripping off his customers," but otherwise
| that's an odd thing to say in response to someone who
| makes good money but is still looking for side jobs.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c&t=48s
| cardanome wrote:
| scatters wrote:
| > artificially increasing supply of labor
|
| Say's Law: supply creates its own demand. Or in this
| specific case, this is the lump-of-labor fallacy.
|
| Perhaps if the left had some basic understanding of
| economics past Marx, they wouldn't be blinded by their
| comically unreasoning hatred of Thatcher.
| CrazyPyroLinux wrote:
| Did you unironically make an ad hominem?
|
| Well it sounds like you got it figured out what's best
| for everyone's health, ethics, and economics. Thankfully
| we have wise people to tell us what we can and can't work
| on...
| impossiblefork wrote:
| Why does wage inequality matter? Inequality isn't
| strongly driven by wages, but is by capital income.
|
| Personally, the way I see it, the more money goes to
| wages, the better, and if that's because some guy is
| earning millions a year, I still think it's good.
|
| Income from people starting new companies, that's fine
| too. What's bad is rent extraction, ossification,
| monopolies and private institutions that have power over
| people.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Some people have unique needs and wants. There's also the
| whole fish growing to fill its aquarium thing. So it's
| reasonable for them to feel that way, just as it's
| reasonable for you to feel the other.
|
| That said, I would suggest that at that level of comp,
| maybe just use the extra time for your own enjoyment -
| hobby, relaxing, FOSS personal project, etc.
| geocrasher wrote:
| Why, though? If you're making that much money, it's unlikely
| you need more. Fill your time with things that will make you
| happy, not things that will make you wealthier. You're
| filling the wrong tank.
| rswskg wrote:
| Are you a contractor?
| jinglejangley wrote:
| I am not.
| mywittyname wrote:
| You're chasing pennies with a side-gig. If you're already at
| the top of market in terms of pay, it's unlikely a side-gig
| is going bring in enough to satisfy your ambitions.
|
| Why not start your own business? The upside is much better.
| Yeah, it might fail, but you can decide to start another one
| what you learned.
| jinglejangley wrote:
| Yeah, it seems like I had an idealistic view of what a side
| gig would be, whereas it's a lot more work than I wish to
| spend on it.
|
| I'm happy in my day job; it's secure, I'm paid well and I
| get a lot of time with my family. Starting my own business
| would put family time in jeopardy which isn't an option,
| especially as I'd have to give up my main income.
| kjellsbells wrote:
| I often get pings for research consulting interviews,
| that pay very well, and take an hour or so. Maybe thats
| something to look at.
|
| That said, be cautious about conflicts. If you work for a
| mega corp like a hyperscaler it is going to be very hard
| to avoid the appearance of conflict.
| ghaff wrote:
| I think you're probably right. Every now and then I've
| had something fall in my lap from someone I knew. I've
| done a few focus groups (though those are during the
| day.) And so forth.
|
| But, perhaps not unsurprisingly, there really isn't a
| general source for short side gigs paying a few hundred
| dollars an hour--especially for asynchronous tasks you
| can do nights or weekends.
| yolo3000 wrote:
| I did this last year. I work full time for ~100/hr, and
| someone I've worked with before, recommended me to an
| early stage startup in the US. They paid me ~130/hr just
| to be part of the meetings with their EU based dev team.
| Monthly I was making 2-3k extra but the context
| switching, startup rollercoaster, dev team not performing
| turned out to be stressful. In the end they secured
| funding and assembled an in house dev team, so they
| didn't need me anymore. I suggest you try it, but not for
| the extra money because the extra stress is not
| sustainable long term, do it for the learning experience
| and maybe that will help you in the future.
| synergy20 wrote:
| tried both full time and contractor years back, too
| stressful, can't deal with both with kids, I since focus
| on one of them, not both at the same time, for the sake
| of my own health.
| gassiss wrote:
| Specially if you factor in the marginal tax you'll pay on
| the side gig, it's almost never worth it imo. I know that
| was a turn off for me at least, so starting a business if
| you have the energy will have way more upside
| gtfoutttt wrote:
| Or buy real estate.
| MrPatan wrote:
| FANGs? startups? contracts? It's been a while since I looked,
| is 200k the norm now? Asking for a friend...
| politelemon wrote:
| It most certainly isn't the norm now, with exceptions of
| course. FAANG and some large banks can pay a lot, but most do
| not.
| dominotw wrote:
| Yea 200-250k is starting base of seniors now. Options, RSUs,
| bonus on top of it.
| jjevanoorschot wrote:
| This isn't the case in London (which is what the parent
| comment is referring to). In London you can probably half
| that base.
| jcadam wrote:
| Depends where in the US. 200k is not typical for anyone
| working outside of a FAANG in SV. I've got almost 17 years
| exp and not making $200k base, and recruiters who contact
| me balk when I ask for something in that range - to include
| someone who contacted me on this very site and put me
| through a multi-week interview process only to offer me
| considerably less than 200 (or even my current pay).
|
| And considering the way the economy is going (at least in
| the West), it's probably smart to work a side gig and make
| as much money as you can, while you can, because work is
| going to dry up soon.
| mrelectric wrote:
| Why do you think work is going to dry up soon?
| justinlloyd wrote:
| I am not working for FAANG. I am not in SV. I am based in
| the US. Working for an early stage start-up. Earning
| quite a bit North of $200K. My compensation is based on
| the value I provide, not where I live. Any recruiter or
| hiring manager who tries to tell me different is promptly
| ignored.
| dominotw wrote:
| > I've got almost 17 years exp and not making $200k base
|
| I am surprised by this. You can check levels.fyi to
| target the right companies. I guarantee you 100% that you
| can easily make > 230k base outside FANG for a remote
| position.
| jcadam wrote:
| > I am surprised by this
|
| Really? I don't personally know anyone making that much.
| My mother is a software engineer with an additional 20
| years of experience on me and has never made that much
| (currently makes less than me, in fact).
| nerdponx wrote:
| In Boston and NYC I am seeing $150-200k at well-funded
| startups for "experienced IC" roles. If you have several
| years of experience, and you're actually a good engineer, and
| aren't at least above 150k in a market like this, you need to
| start interviewing, because your current employer is taking
| advantage of you.
| PainfullyNormal wrote:
| > If you have several years of experience, and you're
| actually a good _interviewer_
|
| FTFY.
| jjevanoorschot wrote:
| I mentioned PS200k because it's near the top end for a senior
| engineer in London (although not the very top). FAANG, some
| Unicorns, trading firms will pay this to a senior engineer.
| Bear in mind this is total compensation, so part of that will
| be in stock or options.
|
| For engineers based in the UK that are shocked by this number
| I'd recommend reading this [0] article. It's about
| compensation in the Netherlands but the same principle holds
| for the UK.
|
| [0] https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-
| sala...
| sedeki wrote:
| How would I go about making that kind of money? I'm planning on
| moving to London next year. My professional background is as a
| web dev.
| aregsar wrote:
| Try transitioning from full stack web dev to back end
| architect working with microservices and cloud infrastructure
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Probably not as a web dev; senior / lead Java developer,
| Oracle DBA, managerial level at big companies like banks and
| insurance might get you closer to that. But to be blunt,
| you're probably not worth 200K as a web developer.
| sedeki wrote:
| Thank you, I appreciate the honest feedback. My academic
| background is technical (math), but not CS.
|
| Been wanting to transition into another role. Not sure what
| exactly but within software development.
|
| Can I send you an email?
| dominotw wrote:
| > I'm planning on moving to London next year.
|
| I found it really hard to find jobs that pay anywhere close
| to US salaries in EU. Unless things are very different now, I
| would plan to move to US to make 'that kind of money'.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| I was going to say. Unless you have things lined up, I
| would hesitate to move to UK without a plan. I am saying
| this as my sister is attempting this very thing ( and me
| trying to discourage her since its a business pie in the
| sky kind of dream ). The days easily obtainable jobs (
| especially the low level ones ) for other EU members are
| over. She did not seem to get that memo. On the high end of
| the spectrum, banking lost some jobs as a result of Brexit.
| Dunno about insurance.
|
| US has its benefits, but I would consider age as a factor (
| if you are younger, you may be able to worry less about
| insurance and whatnot ).
| yitchelle wrote:
| As @loudouncodes mentioned, no easy way but to network and to
| market yourself. But you also need to consider which aspect of
| yourself you want to sell as the side gig.
|
| * Would you write a book to impart your knowledge to the readers?
|
| * Would you sell your physical hours in delivering work products?
|
| * Would you sell your advice via consulting?
|
| Many ways to cut this fruit, and still have it taste good. Best
| of luck on your ventures.
| rr888 wrote:
| Maybe talk to your wife? Friends, family? Keeping physically
| healthy and healthy relationships allows you to keep working your
| 9-5.
|
| Otherwise I'd learn new skills, if not tech maybe management? I
| did an OU MBA online which was fun, I didn't want to be a manager
| but helped me work more effectively in the organization.
| sanjayio wrote:
| You're assuming OPs not doing the above. A job is 35 hours a
| week. OP might want a side gig that gives 20 hours x $200/hour.
| This means OPs making $4k extra a week and has 55 hours
| remaining a week to do the above assuming 8 hours of sleep. The
| few quick judgements in this thread are something else.
| mxuribe wrote:
| Depending on the type of work that you wish to get into (for
| getting side paid), i would caution this approach...Because
| when i did my side hustle, i reached to family and friends, and
| they only ended up connecting me to the typical bagel showps
| who "wanted a website". you can imagine where engagements went
| from there. Either the clients want Google/Facebook-level
| engineering for pennies, or they conduct massive scope creep,
| or keep saying non-helpful feedback like "my nephew in high
| school can do this, why are saying it taakes time, costs X
| money?", etc.
|
| The only scenario where this might work is if your
| family/friends actually work in corporate America. Why? Because
| they might understand projects, scope, vendor payment,
| etc...and they might likely connect you with clients who have
| similar understanding of project work, etc. I've never had such
| luck...but maybe that can be a good direction.
| rr888 wrote:
| Ha. I actually meant as a social context, in a way to hang
| out and have fun. But now you mention it going into business
| (or charity) with friends could either be great or
| disastrous, but is worth checking.
| mxuribe wrote:
| Oops, you are right I read too quickly and missed the
| social context aspect... which I believe you are 100%
| correct! :-)
| philmcp wrote:
| Here are some options:
|
| https://4dayweek.io/remote-jobs/part-time (Disclaimer: I'm the
| founder)
|
| https://www.toptal.com/
|
| https://gun.io/
|
| https://arc.dev/
|
| https://www.blockchaindevs.net/ (Disclaimer: I'm the founder + I
| launched yesterday)
|
| https://lemon.io/
|
| https://www.turing.com/
| piinecone wrote:
| I have this problem too. I made
|
| https://polyfill.work
|
| to try to solve it (I enter my preferences and get notified when
| there's a matching job.) It's still a work in progress though.
|
| Something I've found that works quite well is contacting
| developers I used to work with to see if they need any help.
| pknerd wrote:
| I used to get via Freelancing sites like Guru, Freelancers etc.
| Not so much successful on Upwork as I did not use it as I should.
| Reddit.
|
| BUt.. my own blog has helped me not to get main job(s) but side
| gigs as well. People read my articles, check my Github and
| contact.
|
| PS: I mostly code in Python(ETL, Scraping etc) so most of the
| gigs around it but not limited to it.
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| Pound pavement. Take people out to lunch. Go to conferences. Lots
| and lots of networking. Leverage any existing connections you
| have. If you're a senior, you should have some that are no longer
| relevant to your company, like old coworkers and whatnot.
|
| In my experience, there will be about a 3-6 month delay between
| looking for work and securing a contract.
|
| A couple things:
|
| I undersold myself at first to get a couple of very pleased
| customers that then gave me much more work. However, it's very
| tricky... the customers that scoff at your price are not the ones
| you want. They are also going to be a PITA in every other way,
| and they'll grumble and make you feel like shit even when you
| deliver what you promised, on time, for the price you agreed to,
| with excellent value compared to the market. You don't want them.
|
| ....But it is a balance. Consider some way to mitigate risk on
| behalf of your customer in your first couple of contracts: hourly
| with a Not to Exceed number, or bid the job. Etc. Anything to get
| your foot in the door and get word-of-mouth recommendations.
|
| Also... when pounding pavement, don't chase after individual
| customers! If you do, make sure they are whales. Do your best to
| find someone that will feed you lots of customers... Maybe
| partner with someone that does a complement to your work, like
| frontend or something of the sort?
|
| Also... in partnerships, don't be greedy. There's ENORMOUS value
| that can be had when all the people you work with or around know
| that YOU want THEM to make money.
|
| And finally... in my experience, having a "side gig" is really
| hard or impossible to pull off. It's always been a pretty binary
| situation between: "I have no work, nor prospects" and "Holy
| shit, I have way too much work and more is coming in." Work
| doesn't trickle in organically. You're either in or your out of
| the network of people that need work done, and if you're in,
| people paying top dollar want work done now. Trust me, those are
| the people you want anyway. The ones looking for a bargain will
| screw you.
|
| Don't be afraid to say no to people that give you red flags, but
| I will warn you that every time you say "no" you are killing a
| connection on your network graph that could have led to a lot
| more work.
| ghaff wrote:
| Per another comment of mine, you're now essentially talking
| about a full time-ish job though. Unless you're lucky and
| connect with just the right people in your network, it's really
| tough to land well-paying part-time to very part-time gigs with
| a minimum of business development and a fair bit of
| flexibility.
|
| And this is true broadly. It's very hard to find/make a 10-20
| hour job that lets you take off a month or two _and_ isn 't
| some $5-10/hour sort of thing. To the degree there is, you
| probably have to create it yourself.
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| I totally agree.
|
| I ended up trying to approximate this for a time by sharing
| work with a shop of 3 people. We were each 3 separate
| companies, but we would bring in clients under one contract
| and then just exchange labor via internal market-like
| exchanges. It worked pretty well for quite a while.
|
| But even then... while it did sort of allow one to frequently
| (but not always) work part time and to take a couple weeks
| off and just distribute work with the other guys in the shop,
| it didn't attenuate the feast or famine issue as much as I'd
| hoped. In practice, 2 out of the 3 of us did the business
| development, and 1 guys served as the guy we could offload
| work onto.
| psyc wrote:
| Things that have worked for me, an introvert, include emailing
| former employers and coworkers, and responding to calls for help
| on social media including sometimes right here.
| jugjug wrote:
| not mentioned here yet: small bet approach, popularized by Daniel
| Vassalo https://twitter.com/dvassallo
| jack_codes wrote:
| I've lucked into some great places being cool with part-time
| work. That said, just yesterday I spoke with a recruiter for a
| 40hr gig and they had deep concerns that I've had work overlap
| (my part-time business + 40hr contract work) on my resume. I've
| pulled out of consideration for that role because of it but am
| thinking of adjusting my resume to not show overlap. I would've
| thought it showed drive but I guess - at least in some recruiting
| circles - that it causes concern.
|
| Should I remove my business from my resume? A lot of my exciting
| experience comes from my business whereas the 40hr stuff is just
| standard work I've been doing for years.
| taormina wrote:
| You correctly identified the red flag of a place looking for
| side-gig work that actually hates any sign of side-gig work. So
| for starters, great job there, you don't want to work for those
| people. As much as I hate to just recommend "find better
| recruiters", that does sound like a pretty terrible recruiter.
| I wouldn't remove the interesting stuff from your resume
| because a non-technical chump doesn't understand how technology
| gets tinkered on.
| conductr wrote:
| Keep it if the work was interesting and you feel like it
| bolsters your experience. Sometimes I remove dates from my
| resume as they'll always be doing the mental math of assembling
| your timeline and notice all the concurrent items. Duration is
| a happy medium for me. That frees you from the linearity that
| resumes often follow, so maybe consider adding a section
| entitled "Recent Projects" or something similar with the other
| section called "Employment"
|
| It's a white lie but I've often explained those periods as
| "consulting" instead of freelance / "entrepreneur". Then when I
| discuss it I always make it about the project and work. I never
| talk about the client except maybe the industry as a lead in to
| the problem. This way it sounds temporary or something. If they
| think you have an active client list you're maintaining, that
| is always going to be concerning for them. They don't know if
| you'll be distracted or will make the clients the priority.
| They want to be your top and ideally only priority (sometimes
| even over family).
|
| If they really press you they're probably trying to understand
| how you managed so much project work while being employed full
| time. This is when you force a step-back from the details and
| say, "I do occasionally take on a project outside of work, it
| helps me work with emerging tech and things I'm interested in.
| I view it as a form of continuing education that is required in
| many professions. It's never effected my performance at my job
| and I ensure to never causes a conflict of priorities. I find I
| can be 50%+ more productive due to having less meetings and
| organization overhead." Or something with that gist
| jack_codes wrote:
| I find this extremely helpful, thank you. Presenting the
| situation the way you mentioned in the last paragraph is
| honest and presents it in a very positive way. I also like
| the idea of project/employment sections. Much appreciated!
| 3pt14159 wrote:
| Side gigs don't really earn much. If you've got a friend that
| you've worked with before and they have a startup or something,
| ask for some peanuts amount of equity as an hands on advisor.
| It'll do more for your CV than 20 hour side gigs glueing some
| libraries together.
|
| Or pick a well known library / framework and contribute. Or
| rescue a "looking for [co-]maintainer" library out there.
| ollieglass wrote:
| I am curious about the impact of being an advisor on a CV.
|
| Could you share what it's done for you?
| 3pt14159 wrote:
| I'd prefer to keep my CV off of HN. It's a bit spicy.
|
| That said, the peak I've pulled down as a SRE is a total comp
| of CAD$600k a year and I'm presently a CTO of a barely-in-
| the-media startup.
|
| I'm doing ok.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| > It's a bit spicy.
|
| No idea what this means, but I love it.
| kjellsbells wrote:
| You gotta feel for the techs running adult sites. Used to
| be (maybe still is?) the bleeding edge of web tech.
| Payments, micro payments, video, advanced site search,
| content filtering, crypto,... I guess there is a lesson
| there, like "serving primal urges = $$$". But you never
| see those resumes on linkedin.
| pc86 wrote:
| Somewhat related; how do you find these "looking for
| [co-]maintainer" libraries?
| 3pt14159 wrote:
| I took over one because I was using it and it had a giant
| "LOOKING FOR MAINTAINER" in the README and it was interesting
| enough for me to want to maintain it.
|
| Basically, look around / do some targeted searches on GitHub
| / ask in lang discords / slacks if anyone needs help. Lots of
| work to do out there.
| itake wrote:
| I earn $10k/mo contracting 20 hours per week. Personally, this
| extra income helped me maximize my day job benefits (401k and
| ESPP) and provided liquidity during the home buying process.
| angarg12 wrote:
| Maybe you can answer a question that is nagging me.
|
| I recently moved to the US, and ever since I keep getting
| messages on LinkedIn offering contract/freelance jobs.
|
| However the hourly rate is so poor that it would pay less
| that my current job base pay (not counting stocks and
| bonuses).
|
| In Europe the rule of thumb is that contract job should pay
| 2x your full time job rate. This is based on the associated
| overhead plus lack of benefits (e.g. you need to pay your own
| pension contribution).
|
| This made me think, is anyone taking these contract jobs? I
| see several possibilities:
|
| a) Contract work in the US is not attractive.
|
| b) People reaching out in LinkedIn are the bottom of the
| barrel. There are better rates out there.
|
| c) People run several contracts in parallel, or with a full
| time job.
|
| Is any of these true or am I missing something?
| molsongolden wrote:
| b) is the most likely situation here
|
| The 2x calculation is similar in the US. I've also seen "3x
| your hourly rate as an employee" if you're relying on the
| contracting income. It's important to account for the time
| you'll spend doing sales and misc. non-billable business
| building.
|
| There are lowball contracting offers all over the internet
| and people sometimes accept these for various reasons. A
| higher tier of sustainable contracting does exist though,
| with most of the higher paying work sourced via networking,
| not via job boards.
| daggersandscars wrote:
| In the US, there are (at least) two competing views of
| contractors.
|
| One side believes that contractors are cheap, disposable
| labor that costs less than hiring an employee with
| benefits.
|
| Another side believes that contractors are a way to access
| temporarily needed expertise they lack in-house and cost
| more than hiring an employee with benefits.
|
| Some firms' views depend on the skillset. Other firms have
| the same view no matter what.
|
| In my experience, the more general a position, the more
| likely it is to be put in the "cheaper" group. The more
| specialized a position, the more likely it is to be put in
| the "expensive" group. Neither of these categorizations
| necessarily is correct, just how the firm is viewing
| things.
| synergy20 wrote:
| I just ignore those offers these days, the contract rate is
| actually lower than my permanent job pays, which is,
| interesting.
| disqard wrote:
| I recently responded to one of these entites that reached
| out via LinkedIn.
|
| I did a tiny bit of work for them, but they haven't
| managed to pay me even after 100 days :)
|
| Just adding another data point, that YMMV, and it might
| not be worth your while.
| keepquestioning wrote:
| Where did you find your gigs?
| mr-yamasi wrote:
| That's a little like asking for someone's favorite fishing
| hole.
|
| My experience has been that serious networking has been
| more effective than anything else.
| keepquestioning wrote:
| Cold calling on LinkedIn?
| ghaff wrote:
| Books can serve a similar role, especially if they're through a
| publisher. You almost certainly won't make much but people
| often give you quite a bit of credit for being an expert as an
| author. (Perhaps more than they should.)
| atlasunshrugged wrote:
| There are plenty of more curated platforms out there now like
| Tribe.ai (more focus on ml intensive projects), not sure if
| Gigster is still around but they also used to leverage
| freelancers part-time, and then Toptal. All these let you go the
| route of being part of a network and getting gigs sent to you
| rather than going out and trying to find your own.
| pythonbase wrote:
| I usually get side gigs (freelance work where I can give 10-15
| hours per week) through HN hire freelancer thread, Reddit, UpWork
| and my social network. I aim for gigs that have interesting
| problems to solve.
| cdelsolar wrote:
| Would you be interested in volunteer work for a non-profit open-
| source gaming company? It's also in Go :)
|
| https://woogles.io
| loudouncodes wrote:
| Networking and Marketing.
|
| For 10 years I spoke at every conference, user group, etc. that I
| could find. I sustained a 9 person consulting company finding
| gigs through the network of other speakers and attendees that
| would come up and ask me questions. Every question can be
| rephrased as "I have a problem you can help me solve", but you
| also have to qualify to make sure there is a company with a
| budget for solving that problem. That takes a little business
| development.
|
| For conference attendees, you have to have some free giveaway to
| keep a connection... like a free 2 hour code review of your
| existing project, or "I'm willing to do this presentation for an
| in-house user group as a lunchtime thing if you're interested".
| Those little giveaways get you closer to the management and the
| confidence you know what you're talking about.
| ghaff wrote:
| I think that highlights though that a steady stream of decent
| paying gigs isn't a few hours "after the kids are in bed" sort
| of thing for the most part. Every now and then I'll do a little
| (non-coding) consulting for someone I know but my observation--
| not having looked very hard, mind you--is that anything between
| having a serious go at it and picking up low-paying scraps is
| hard to do on a regular basis.
| bmitc wrote:
| That's a very good point. But at the same time, I do wonder
| why there aren't more temporary things that are carved out. I
| think it speaks somewhat to the design of software, because
| surely people have little pieces, components, libraries, etc.
| developed that just need some time and eyes on them and don't
| require onboarding to the full system or long-term
| commitments or even full-time commitments. But I suppose
| there's effort in doing that carving out and the way that
| systems are sort of organically designed and developed
| doesn't lend itself to that.
| ghaff wrote:
| I'd think there would be so much coordination and
| onboarding overhead that it wouldn't be worthwhile unless
| it was so specialized/unique that your own staff doesn't
| understand it--and then why are you using software you
| don't understand and can't maintain.
|
| Where I've had the most experience with using consultants
| and agencies for short-term/part-time are things like the
| following: -- You have a specific problem related to, say,
| ball bearing design and you really need to consult with an
| expert specialist. -- You need a speaker for an event and
| want a name of some sort -- You need a discrete project
| that you could probably do in-house but an agency
| specializes in that sort of thing -- You need a fractional
| share of some specialty (e.g. public relations)
| loudouncodes wrote:
| I realized I should clarify "I could find". I'm in the
| Washington D.C. Metro area, but I spoke _at least_ once a week
| everywhere from Richmond to Philadelphia, and occasionally as
| far as Ohio.
| proteinfisher wrote:
| Sounds like you are in my neck of the woods. Trying to get
| some good side gigs here. Is there any good speaking
| conferences that you can recommend? Personally, I am much
| more inclined into govt contracting.
| tomiplaz wrote:
| Make use of HN's whoishiring threads:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring
| actfrench wrote:
| A good number of people are making quite a fortune tutoring
| coding online if that's something you are interested in. I assume
| you are good with kids if you have one. What hourly rate are you
| looking for? I may be interested in in giving you some extra work
| as we have a couple families at Modulo looking for coding
| tutoring. Feel free to reach out. Very easy to find me from my
| bio.
| 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote:
| > All tools are secular and have been vetted by learning
| specialists.
|
| In the alphabet book is A for activist or agnostic? Secular
| could mean more than one thing.
| atemerev wrote:
| Well, if you want money, go with the money.
|
| For me it is consulting in crypto and algorithmic trading, but
| there are other high-paying areas to consider. Like adtech, but I
| am not sociopathic enough for that.
|
| It is harder to find a side gig as a generic (no pun intended) Go
| developer, you'd want to specialize in something.
| H8crilA wrote:
| Why adtech is more sociopathic than algorithmic trading? Honest
| question, especially because both are so similar (algorithmic
| usage of information in fast marketplaces).
| mxuribe wrote:
| Its not like adtech is inherently evil work...but as
| @atemerev noted, the industry makes one feel like you *have*
| to do shady things to achieve goals, do your work, etc. II'm
| sure there are good, honest people in the induystry. But in
| essence its basic manipulation...so many people (myself
| included) have issues working in such an environment, at
| least for the most part.
| atemerev wrote:
| Because in adtech, you have to manipulate people much more
| directly, without going through the equalizer of electronic
| marketplaces.
|
| Also, at least in crypto, nearly all people are here
| voluntarily, they know that they are in the adversarial
| environment, a fighting arena. In adtech, you are up against
| the innocent.
| Beltiras wrote:
| There's no easy way to do that. You have to market yourself as
| worth the money. You are absolutely right about fiverr, upwork
| and similar outlets will not bring clients that pay good money
| and they are usually more demanding than when you get your name
| into a managers rolodex (contact list is the modern equivalent I
| suppose). A little fake-it-till-you-make-it might bring you some
| of the way there. Try making a webpage selling your consultancy
| with a portfolio of projects you are proud of. It's something to
| put on a business card that you can pass out when networking. I
| want to echo what others have said about going to conferences.
| The trick is that you don't want to get onto the contact lists of
| other devs and managers don't often go to conferences. Your best
| bet at the conference itself is going to the sponsor desks and
| asking around. It's a hustle and I don't think it fits your idea
| of making a few extra EUREUR. I've found that once I have a solid
| engagement that takes 8 of my daily weekday hours, I just don't
| have time to hustle the way I can when I don't have a dayjob.
|
| Good luck.
| jinglejangley wrote:
| Thanks! To be honest, the replies to this thread have just
| solidified that a side gig is more work than it's worth haha.
| Beltiras wrote:
| There are benefits to sharpening the blade. If your day job
| vanishes all of a sudden (happened to me twice in my career),
| having your tentacles out to look for gigs will soften the
| blow. I've also had a gig turn into a dayjob (even if that
| one was short-lived and problematic on many fronts).
| nfriedly wrote:
| Yeah, fiverr isn't going to pay well, that's right there in the
| name.
|
| I have had some success with other freelancing sites in the past,
| where I initially set my rates to $50/hour and raised it to over
| $150/hour by the time I stopped. More than once, I lost a job in
| the initial bidding, but was later contacted and hired by the
| client after issues cropped up with the cheaper hires.
|
| And, yes, as others have said, networking and marketing. I also
| wrote a technical blog and got other jobs through my network.
| Over time, that became the primary source of clients. But, when I
| was just starting, the freelancer sites were very helpful.
| [deleted]
| the-alchemist wrote:
| * The monthly Hacker News "freelancers" posts
|
| * Slack groups (geographical or programming language based)
|
| * craigslist software section
|
| My tips:
|
| * Have a portfolio / resume handy
|
| * Expected rate and weekly availability - \* And
| your flexibility in both areas
|
| * Citizenship
|
| * Timezone
|
| * Reason for looking - Want to get experience in
| X - I run a software consultancy - Need a
| challenge - Looking for experience
|
| As someone who has looked for someone part-time multiple times,
| it's been a frustrating experience overall.
|
| * Under-qualified - I wish I did, as I love
| mentoring, but I don't have the time to take someone under my
| wing right now. Hence the need for a portfolio / resume /
| Github.
|
| * Overqualified - I can't afford you right now ;)
|
| * People who already have 40 hour jobs and who _think_ they have
| enough time but they don't - Not under the
| person's control all the time, I understand. Life gets in the
| way
| Eclyps wrote:
| I've always just leveraged existing connections. I'm not great at
| selling myself, but I've done a lot of good work for a handful of
| people that ARE good at talking me up. Reach out to people that
| you've done good work for and let them know that you are looking
| for some side gigs. You might not get anything right away, but
| things could start trickling in. This has opened up a lot of
| opportunities for me.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| Look for them.
|
| Since becoming a software engineer I've worked as a Tech Lead for
| a coding bootcamp (gave mock technical interviews to new grads),
| a coach for levels.fyi (gave advice for folks interviewing with
| fang+ companies), and a tech coach for Outco (gave advice and
| mock interviews for folks preping for interviews). I also did
| some consulting work for a small dev agency.
|
| The first and last I found from calling people I'd previously
| worked with, sharing a bit about my move into swe, and asking if
| they have any advice for me. Both of them said I have a job you
| might be good for.
|
| The other two I found from emailing founders about their
| programs. Hey I saw you do x. I do x. I'd love to chat.
|
| A lot of companies are dying to hire anyone who is halfway
| decent.
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