[HN Gopher] Auditory brainstem response distinguishes occasional...
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Auditory brainstem response distinguishes occasional and constant
tinnitus
Author : Tomte
Score : 94 points
Date : 2022-08-29 11:43 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.jci.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.jci.org)
| ibejoeb wrote:
| Maybe useful for someone: I developed SSHL and I have tinnitus
| mostly in my left ear, which is profoundly deaf. I use Bose noise
| cancelling earbuds, and, for some reason, it relieves the
| tinnitus and also allows me to do common things like make phone
| calls or listen to audio with the remaining frequencies I hear in
| my right ear.
| TekMol wrote:
| What I noticed when talking to people with tinnitus:
|
| For some people, putting fingers in their ears and altering the
| pressure alters the frequency of their tinnitus. For others, it
| does not.
|
| Could it be that this makes it possible to differentiate between
| two different types of tinnitus?
|
| For the HN readers with tinnitus - does it alter the frequency
| for you, when you put fingers in your ears and move the fingers
| into different directions?
| seri4l wrote:
| I'm not a physician or neurologist, but I read a lot about this
| when I started suffering from tinnitus. There are indeed
| multiple types.
|
| - Hearing loss related: the tiny hairs in the inner ear that
| transform vibrations into chemo-electric signals get damaged
| and start sending the wrong signal.
|
| - Cardiovascular: a pulsatile rumbling that varies with heart
| rate. It's the sound of the blood flowing through some artery
| near the inner ear. I remember reading that it was caused by
| loud arteries and that it could be detected with very sensitive
| microphones.
|
| - TMJ/cervical/postural: I think this one was about motor
| system or pain signals leaking to the ear circuit, but I'm not
| sure.
|
| - Timpani related: wax buildup, tensor muscle acting funny...
|
| This rough classification only deals with the "input" part,
| though. It doesn't explain how these bad inputs reach conscious
| hearing, causing distress. As a general rule, over time extreme
| pain becomes just pain, torrid heat becomes just heat, blue and
| red can be seen as white depending on the lighting conditions,
| even hunger and thirst are modulated by the nervous system.
| Eventually one learns to cope with tinnitus, but it's kind of
| fishy that this isn't filtered upstream by the auditory system,
| before it reaches conscious hearing.
| Arisaka1 wrote:
| I have pulsatile tinnitus for the last 12 years, however it's
| also accompanied with a CONSTANT sensation of pulse, as if I
| can feel my arteries dancing, all around my scalp.
|
| To this day, the doctors have been unable to find the root
| cause for either. I eventually learned to live with both and
| came to terms with the idea that I will never find out why
| this happens.
|
| With that being said, I want to pursue a diagnosis for
| curiosity's sake as soon as my financial situation allows it.
| TwoNineA wrote:
| No change.
|
| However, some of my migraines lower the noise, some anti
| migraine medication raises it (Elavil).
| tunap wrote:
| To add to that, a K1/K2 'Super K' supplement I was taking
| amplified my tinnitus within a couple days of taking it(I
| didn't make the connection, initially). Early in 2020 when I
| ran out & could not resupply, my tinnitus reduced > 50%
| within a week or two of abstaining. When I did get another
| bottle, the tinnitus increased almost immediately. I did
| multi-weeks on/multi-weeks off testing 4 times that year and
| the results were the same: the 'Super K' triggered it & it
| waned within 2 weeks of desisting. YMMV.
| Zardoz84 wrote:
| nope
| jFriedensreich wrote:
| for me, pressure increases the frequency. also high jaw muscle
| tension increases the frequency in a similar way.
| clsec wrote:
| For me, putting my finger in my ear only slightly mutes the
| higher frequencies. I can change pitch a tiny bit by clenching
| my jaw. But the real big changes in volume and pitch come when
| I push my tongue onto the roof of my mouth.
| [deleted]
| ktkoffroth wrote:
| For me, it doesn't seem to alter the frequency of the
| underlying tinnitus "signal", but it does add some lower
| frequency rumbling, which I believe is my tensor tympani
| response.
| IsopropylMalbec wrote:
| No difference for me, in frequency or volume.
| brobinson wrote:
| Doesn't do anything for me.
| eezynow wrote:
| i am an audiologist and that sounds like TMJ
| https://www.tmjtreatmentsc.com/blog/explaining-tinnitus-ear-...
| ..so yes, it is possible.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| Oh wow, my SO has had sleep issues over a long period of
| time, where she claims there's a low rumbling noise, like a
| truck idling far away, preventing her from falling asleep.
| She's talked with her doctor about it but so far nothing.
| However she is being treated for having a clenched teeth
| while sleeping...
|
| Just the other day, she noticed that tilting her head in a
| particular way made the rumbling go away. To us both this
| indicated that the rumbling must be coming from within, and
| not an external thing.
|
| Could it all be her jaw?!?
| Teever wrote:
| It was for me.
|
| Have your SO look into botox for TMJ. It is pricey but life
| changing.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| Thanks, I'll make sure she follows up on that lead. Price
| is relative to having frequent nights with very poor
| sleep, so yeah, doesn't take much to be worth it.
| PcChip wrote:
| perhaps her tensor tympani is tensing, causing the ear
| rumble
| YeahNO wrote:
| I have muscle tremors that sound like a fluttering or low
| rumbling at night that sounds very much like this. It's an
| occasional thing that sounds similar to what I hear when I
| yawn deeply.
| theplumber wrote:
| It could be related to blood circulation so investigations
| in that sense may help. Tilting her head in a particular
| way may relieve some blood vesels.
| cecilpl2 wrote:
| Many people are able to voluntarily control the tensor
| tympani muscle, which causes a low-pitched rumbling sound
| in the ears. https://old.reddit.com/r/earrumblersassemble/
|
| Maybe she has twitches or involuntary tension there?
| magicalhippo wrote:
| She's generally very tense in the upper back and neck
| region as well, so involuntary tension seems indeed
| likely. Thanks for the link, appreciated.
| whitepirate20 wrote:
| Are there cures for TMJ? It really kills me
| Teever wrote:
| Botox is a very effective but expensive treatment for TMJ.
|
| I've had 3 treatments that last about 4-5 months and it has
| significantly improved my quality of life.
|
| It's been over a year since I've had one and the symptoms
| have started to creep back, but they're mostly induced by
| alcohol and caffeine (which I've mostly cut out.)
|
| Just knowing that there's a treatment that I can get if the
| pain gets too bad is a huge psychological relief.
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| Sometimes!
|
| I'm a layperson, so you know, verify my stuff with an
| actual doctor.
|
| On to cures: A common first thing is a mouth guard that you
| wear at night. The one my dentist offered (if mine gets too
| bad) aligns the teeth, hopefully giving some relief to the
| joint.
|
| My mother gets relief if she makes sure to keep anxiety
| under control (with medication): Her TMJ will trigger
| cluster headaches, so this is fairly important for her.
|
| Some folks wind up having surgery, but this is a last
| resort for most folks.
|
| And as a sidenote: TMJ is often used to be covered under
| regular health insurances, though sometimes it is difficult
| to get it covered (Been a while since I lived in the US,
| and am unsure of extent of Norwegian coverage)
| vorpalhex wrote:
| It depends on why you have TMJ. The first step is to talk
| to your dentist and get your bite checked, especially if it
| occurs on a specific side.
|
| The second thing is to check your sleep situation, both
| physical and mental. Is your pillow the correct height and
| angle? Are you sleeping in a good posture or are you trying
| to curl into a tiny ball? Are you going to bed relaxed?
| seti0Cha wrote:
| Interesting. I don't hear a single frequency, I often, but
| not always, hear two or more. I wasn't aware until today that
| this is called double tinnitus and is rare. I have TMJ and
| tinnitus. I always thought my tinnitus was from going to
| really loud music shows, but now I'm wondering whether it
| doesn't have multiple causes, which perhaps explains the
| different frequencies. Does this seem plausible?
| TekMol wrote:
| Interesting. People with TMJ seem to suffer from tinnitus
| more than twice as often as other people:
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30125964/
|
| Let's see if there are studies about treating tinnitus via
| treating TMJ:
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=tinnitus+tmj&filter=pu.
| ..
|
| My reading of it: Two of the 7 found studies seem to be
| relevant to this question. Both seem to indicate that
| treating TMJ also treats tinnitus.
| vprcic wrote:
| My nugdet of experience to add a data point to this claim.
| I have TMJ and have had it for as long as I can remember
| (my jaw clicks every time I open or close my mouth). I
| developed constant tinnitus in one ear (on the side where
| the clicks happen) in my early 30s, a few years ago. I was
| SURE the TMJ was causing my tinnitus, but the doctors
| dismissed it as non-related. Maybe I should have pushed
| harder. (I also have voluntary control over the tensor
| tympani muscle, for what it's worth.)
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| Not sure on the stats here but I'd speculate that a co-
| occurrence could be down to hEDS. It's not as rare as
| doctors think and it can cause TMJ and tinnitus.
| clsec wrote:
| Wow, this TMJ connection isn't something I knew about but it
| seems to make some sense in my case.
|
| I've had mild tinnitus for 30+ years that got extremely loud
| the morning after my second mRNA covid vaccination. But with
| this new (to me) information I'm starting to question other
| things such as my spinal cord injury and resulting
| neuropathy. My trigeminal nerve was also damaged during my
| neck surgery (from the halo they put your head in) which
| caused neuropathic problems on my scalp and face for a couple
| years. And finally, I had stopped taking carbamazepine for
| the peripheral neuropathy I got from my accident right around
| the same time I got my second mRNA vax. Hmm..
|
| I'm bummed that I have to search these kinds of things out
| and bring them to the attention of my doctors but I'm also
| glad to have new information to talk to my ENT about.
| Hopefully between this info and the head MRI I'm getting next
| month I can find some relief.
| upsidesinclude wrote:
| If you are dealing with any kind of tinnitus it is worth trying
| to massage the mastoid process and mastoid portion.
|
| Just a small circular motion behind the ear accompanied with
| light pressure.
|
| This has worked to alleviate certain tinnitus.
|
| Before downvoting this, please consider that the causes of
| tinnitus are not largely understood and alleviating it in any way
| is hugely relieving.
|
| Also recommend range of motion exercises
| Zebfross wrote:
| And it could be caused by wax buildup that eventually touches
| the eardrum, something a doctor can verify and take care of in
| 15 minutes.
| ghastmaster wrote:
| When I have wax buildup about once a year, I flush with warm
| water and a "Monoject 412". I shoot the stream directly into
| the canal, almost as hard as possible, over and over until it
| is completely clean. I have been to a physician where a nurse
| usually does a similar procedure with a machine. They
| however, leave my ear hurting and have even noticed bleeding
| after the procedure.
|
| I do not recommend trusting a doctor with this procedure. DIY
| is safer in my experience. You do not need to stick the
| monoject in your ear, just get it close and direct the stream
| into the canal.
| cdjk wrote:
| I have tinnitus and hearings aids help a lot. I only have mild
| hearing loss (35db at high frequencies in my worse ear), but it
| matches the frequency of my tinnitus.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| 35 sounds pretty impactful though. The physical limit of ear
| plugs COMBINED with ear muffs is 36db NRR.
| cdjk wrote:
| Well up to 25 dbHL is considered "normal" hearing for an
| adult. Without a hearing test I wouldn't have known I had any
| hearing loss.
| ycombinete wrote:
| > CONCLUSIONS. Our results support the hypothesis that the
| transition from occasional to constant tinnitus is accompanied by
| neuronal changes in the midbrain leading to a persisting
| tinnitus, which is then less likely to remit.
|
| It was actually easier to come to terms with my tinnitus, once I
| realised that it was never going away.
| hprotagonist wrote:
| the "maladaptive plasticity" framework for thinking about
| tinnitus is certainly a fairly convincing one.
| Jordanpomeroy wrote:
| Do these results suggest no treatment will be possible?
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| They simply found evidence that 1) the more often one has
| occasional tinnitus the more likely it will become permanent
| and 2) the longer a tinnitus lasts, the more likely it won't
| go away again and 3) people having permanent tinnitus have
| neuronal brain changes that can be measured, in contrast to
| those that only suffer from occasional one.
|
| The only thing treatment related, or "actionable information"
| one could derive here is that its prudent to aggressively
| treat those with frequent occasional tinnitus or a tinnitus
| that already lasts longer than normal but isn't considered
| permanent yet.
| bredren wrote:
| 1) and 2) sound a bit like covid / long covid symptoms.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| _Anecdotally_ , some people find magnesium supplements
| helpful.
| jansommer wrote:
| I have noise induced tinnitus and have found that
| benzodiazepine makes it completely silent. That silence comes
| with a pretty steep price though, in regards to the side
| effects. So there certainly is potential for a cure, and
| there's always a few trials going on. One that's particularly
| interesting is https://www.withpower.com/trial/phase-3-tinnit
| us-6-2021-925a.... I don't remember where I read it, but the
| reason they're trialing Etanercept is because they tested it
| on 12 people where I recall 11 of them experienced quieter
| tinnitus. If it works, then we have an FDA and EMA approved
| product for treatment.
| layer8 wrote:
| No.
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