[HN Gopher] The 'liveaboards' sailing away to a new life
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The 'liveaboards' sailing away to a new life
        
       Author : nigerian1981
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2022-08-28 11:06 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | real-dino wrote:
       | I live on a boat... AMA
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | Which canal are you on at the moment?
         | 
         | (I also live on a boat and think about blacking as soon as
         | anyone mentions maintenance costs!)
        
         | flerchin wrote:
         | Are you typically moored or a cruiser? What do costs look like?
         | How do you support yourself?
        
         | prvit wrote:
         | Do you move between countries a lot? Is your passport typically
         | checked?
        
           | zoba wrote:
           | Yes, I've been very curious about real world experience of
           | passports in this lifestyle.
        
           | lbrindze wrote:
           | Yes, usually, but it depends on the country. On top of normal
           | travel visa you also need to make sure your boat is
           | documented from the country of origin and often are required
           | to pay some form of tenporary import fee for the vessel as
           | well. Different places have different rules, some (such as
           | French Polynesia) let you extend your visa up to a year or
           | more if you visit by boat but then you will need to sail
           | elsewhere before you are able to come back.
           | 
           | I suppose you don't have to declare that you are in a country
           | you visit by boat, but the consequences of not doing so could
           | be extreme if you are unlucky and caught by the local
           | authorities
        
         | matkoniecz wrote:
         | I am pretty sure that
         | 
         | > We live on around PS5 a day
         | 
         | from article is a big misunderstanding or a blatant lie.
         | 
         | But what kind of minimal funds are needed to pay for a boat,
         | fuel, repairs, docking fees etc. Can it be cheaper than
         | renting/owning flat?
        
         | pivo wrote:
         | Motor or sail?
        
         | kirbypineapple wrote:
         | What's the internet situation like? I hears Starlink for boats
         | is coming but costs an arm and a leg...
        
           | klardotsh wrote:
           | Near shore, LTE hotspots and/or Starlink RV are feasible
           | options (or, in a marina, there's often marina and/or
           | municipal WiFi around)
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | are you moxie marlinspike?
        
       | contingencies wrote:
       | Mark and Nadiyana were doing it so tough in French winter
       | scraping that boat together that they deserve all the success
       | they can muster. Missing interview question: _rubing_ (Ru Bing )
       | or _chevre_?
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubing
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat_cheese#France
        
       | davidw wrote:
       | This blog has been kind of interesting to follow over the years,
       | along those lines. Although sometimes it also makes me feel like
       | I'm wasting my life...
       | 
       | https://www.bumfuzzle.com/
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | They just sold the Grand Banks trawler and are back on a
         | catamaran (last long sail around the world before the kids grow
         | up and move on). More adventure ahead!
        
       | ccooffee wrote:
       | I've lost many hours reading the pages in the "Hundred Rabbits"
       | collection: https://100r.co/site/home.html
       | 
       | (I'm fairly sure some of their links have been on HN before,
       | perhaps the "working offgrid efficiently" page?
       | https://100r.co/site/working_offgrid_efficiently.html )
        
         | IIAOPSW wrote:
         | More like a hundred rabbit holes and I can't afford to dive
         | down any more of them.
        
       | matkoniecz wrote:
       | > We live on around PS5 a day
       | 
       | Is it really including boat maintenance costs?
        
         | rr888 wrote:
         | The two most widely-used sayings about boats are that they are
         | "holes in the water, into which you throw money" and "the
         | happiest day of a boat owner's life is the day they buy the
         | boat and the day they sell it." 5 quid a day doesn't work.
        
         | lbrindze wrote:
         | Probably not, but cruising is likely cheaper than you expect
         | and (if you are currently living in a major US city)
         | significantly cheaper than your current situation.
         | 
         | Everyone has different standards of what they consider
         | "liveable" especially when it comes to boat maintenance and
         | preparedness. I cruised for a while just fine with almost
         | nothing in the way of systems or electronics (paper/home brew
         | charts, no radar/ais, no ac or refrigeration) boat expenses
         | were definitely my largest slice of expense after food/beer and
         | it still only accounted for about $3-5k per year (amortized
         | over a few years). Some larger maintenance items are only semi
         | annual, other big ticket items (eg sails) can be procured used
         | and last for another 5+ years.
         | 
         | Also I didn't have an engine so I guess that costs money too to
         | maintain but all of this is to say it's like anything else...
         | it's as cheap or expensive as you make it
        
         | themagician wrote:
         | If you were really good about budgeting, you might be able to
         | do it at PS50/day sustainably--and that doesn't include the
         | cost of your time. You'd have to pick your spot strategically
         | and you probably wouldn't be doing any ocean crossing at this
         | level.
         | 
         | Literally everything on a boat has to be replaced (other than
         | the hull, hopefully) overtime. Sails and rigging only last so
         | long depending on where you are. Even good engines need to be
         | rebuilt after 5k hours or so. Decks need to be redone.
         | Antifouling needs to be reapplied. And those are just the big
         | expenses that will average out over time.
         | 
         | Total cost is going to be somewhere around PS50-PS100/day,
         | especially if you want access to a decent marina and/or mooring
         | spot.
         | 
         | PS5/day will get you nothing. That's only PS150/mo, and the
         | odds are good that you need to buy at least PS150 worth of
         | parts and cleaning materials a month. Depending on the boat, a
         | single simple part like a latch can easily be PS150 itself
         | depending on where you are going to need get it shipped from.
         | At PS5 you are pooping over the side of boat which is rapidly
         | disintegrating and you're probably suffering from general
         | malnutrition and scurvy.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | For the YouTubers, seems _very_ unlikely.
         | 
         | In general? If you're down for living in squalor basically like
         | a homeless person squatting on a tiny fiberglass island you
         | don't really maintain as a seagoing vessel, rowing to shore for
         | supplies, then I'd say PS5/day would be a life of luxury in
         | that mode.
         | 
         | I'm reminded of Richardson Bay near SF/Sausalito:
         | 
         | https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/sausalito-encampme...
         | 
         | As usual cost of living depends on lifestyle and expectations.
        
         | jsmith45 wrote:
         | I'd be quite skeptical of that.
         | 
         | Groceries, and fuel expenditures sure. Perhaps even clothing
         | needs can be squeezed into such a budget.
         | 
         | But the tools, dock time, and part costs for required
         | maintenance items really don't seem plausible to fit into that
         | budget, even if they provide 100% of all labor themselves.
         | 
         | Plus if they run a YouTube channel, they have internet costs.
         | Etc.
        
         | real-dino wrote:
         | Not in a way where your main currency is GBP.
         | 
         | On a plastic boat, you don't have to black the hull, but things
         | do break, engines need replacement oil, new filters. Painting,
         | leaks in window frames, wifi subscriptions.
         | 
         | There is no way that figure is achievable outside a crazy
         | initial investment which needs zero work, and even then, the
         | work will pile up quicly.
        
         | fxtentacle wrote:
         | "Follow their adventure on their YouTube channel Wildlings
         | Sailing"
         | 
         | The entire article is more or less an advertisement for a new
         | lifestyle trend and they obviously interviewed people who want
         | to show off that they belong.
         | 
         | EDIT: And of course, their most popular video is ... "The
         | Yunnan Cowgirl Sails to a Nudist Island"
         | https://youtu.be/b72bjCyJLMo?t=305
         | 
         | I'd say Mark and Nadiyana are professional influencers and now
         | they got their big break by being featured in the Guardian.
        
           | mr_woozy wrote:
        
         | myself248 wrote:
         | I somewhat doubt it.
         | 
         | I watch a bunch of these sailing channels, and most of these
         | folks are pouring quite a bit of their YouTube revenue back
         | into the boat just to keep it shipshape. Otherwise the
         | "cruising lifestyle" includes a lot of shore time working
         | random gigs to pay for some part that broke, then you get back
         | on the water until it happens again.
         | 
         | I'm happy that some of them can make this work, but there's a
         | limited YouTube audience, and so a limited number of folks who
         | can work that particular model. Brian of Sailing SV Delos for
         | instance, initially set out planning to continue his software
         | consultancy while working remotely, until there turned out to
         | be money in sharing his journey. Others have other plans that
         | work for them. But I doubt anyone has their boat maintenance
         | _and_ food down to anywhere near 5PS/day.
         | 
         | Heck, a new set of sails alone (they last around ten years)
         | will set you back several kilobucks depending on the size of
         | the boat. So that's on the order of a dollar a day right there.
         | A decent chartplotter/radar/AIS (pretty essential for safety)
         | has a similar cost and lifespan, so add another dollar a day.
         | You probably have a data connection to download weather maps,
         | both for travel and for storm planning, and even if you're near
         | shore using a local SIM card, that's at least a few bucks a
         | month, and an Iridium backup even if you don't use it is a few
         | more. Saltwater eats everything so nothing lasts as long as
         | you'd like, whether it's instruments or appliances, and the
         | combination of sunlight and saltwater does a number on both the
         | standing rigging (steel cables, 10-20 year lifespan) and
         | running rigging (ropes, ~5 year lifespan). Then add in the cost
         | of hauling-out and repainting the bottom with anti-fouling
         | paint every few years, and that stuff ain't cheap either.
         | 
         | Add incidentals like batteries, lifejackets and a PLB, a
         | tender/RIB and outboard, and I think you're on the order of
         | $7-10/day just for the boat, and that's if everything goes
         | "smoothly". Doing it cheaper may be possible, but I'd like to
         | see the breakdown.
         | 
         | That being said, $10/day for a lifestyle that includes
         | unlimited travel (oh, remember to add passport and visa
         | paperwork and entry fees, plus anchorage fees in certain
         | harbors), is still nothing to sneeze at. I'm addicted to these
         | channels because it's immensely interesting, after all.
        
           | haroldp wrote:
           | Wildlings is def not running on $5/day. They likely spend
           | that little on food and rent (moorings). But they are for
           | sure on the extreme end of cruising cheaply. I think they own
           | four shirts, and have to share them. Their boat came with
           | newish sails, they use phones or tablets instead of a
           | dedicated plotter, half of their boat refit was parts out of
           | the marina rubbish bin, their tender looks like it belongs in
           | a back yard swimming pool, etc. Probably only WindHippy or
           | (old) Sam Holmes cruising cheaper on YouTube.
        
           | fxtentacle wrote:
           | socialblade estimate puts the channel of that first featured
           | couple at $50 per day, which I believe would realistically
           | pay for their lifestyle.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | I doubt it includes their fuel costs
        
       | haroldp wrote:
       | Was kind of disappointed by Liz' comments like,
       | 
       | > "People watch YouTubers and think sailing life is all about
       | drinking rum and coconut water on deck," she says.
       | 
       | When I have have watched that exact crew persevere through so
       | many incredibly shitty scenarios (groundings, ankle deep in
       | backed up toilet water, bit by a 2 meter long barracuda in the
       | middle of nowhere, pirates, absolutely everything breaking three
       | times in a row, dengue fever) on that channel.
       | 
       | The hedonistic good times are all well and good, but no one would
       | watch a sailing channel that was only that. The whole point is
       | that the sunset beach party is the _reward_ for succeeding at a
       | difficult challenge. Challenge-and-reward is what 's missing from
       | so many lives these days.
        
         | ant6n wrote:
         | > Challenge-and-reward is what's missing from so many lives
         | these days.
         | 
         | Just get kids -> challenge. When they're in bed -> reward.
        
           | ok_dad wrote:
           | More like: kid -> reward, finding time in bed -> challenge
        
           | haroldp wrote:
           | Graduated from that, not going back. :)
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | the article even references it:
       | 
       | > Ian and Natalie refer to the ranks of abandoned yachts in the
       | depths of boatyards as the "graveyards of dreams". "I've seen it
       | over and over again where people run out of money or they get
       | scared and have to give up the lifestyle,
       | 
       | for anyone thinking of doing this for some romantic notion,
       | consider how rapidly a $100,000 or $250,000 sailboat depreciates
       | and what the real dollar figure is per year in maintenance cost.
       | 
       | boat = bust out another thousand
       | 
       | in any major city one of the major challenges will be finding
       | moorage that allows liveaboards, it's very nearly impossible in
       | seattle or vancouver without a 5-8 year wait list, and even then
       | you'll get a less than optimal location.
        
         | floren wrote:
         | Oyster Point in South SF has signs posted around: "Warning: if
         | you buy a boat, the slip does not transfer. There is a 2-3 year
         | waiting list for liveaboard slips".
         | 
         | Of course you could just drop anchor somewhere and use a tender
         | to get to shore and back, there are currently at least two
         | grungy little boats doing that at Oyster Point. No idea if it's
         | actually legal but they've been doing it for at least a year...
         | like many things around here, the answer may be "you can get
         | way with it as long as you look sufficiently homeless"
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-08-29 23:01 UTC)