[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Apple MacBook M1 16gb or 32GB Windows Laptop?
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Ask HN: Apple MacBook M1 16gb or 32GB Windows Laptop?
Hi all Been stuck in this dilemma for a long time and wanted to
get out there and make a decision on which way to go, once and for
all I've been an Apple hater for their predatory tactics and
overpriced products and also because an unbearable extent of
vendor-locking [like compatibility only with Apple products most of
the time]. Add to that, I have also hated the general UX of Mac OsX
but I've got to admit I got somewhat used to it because I've been
using them at work for a long time. In fact, I believe some Linux
distros have a better UX and customizability in general. I've taken
a look at Windows recently after a long long time and it seems like
I can live with it. It's the WSL/Virtualization improvements that
they made that impressed me. I work a lot with Docker btw I'm now
at a stage where I'm looking to buy a machine but torn between
these two. The Macbook Pro seems 400$ more expensive with only 16GB
of Ram, however I'm considering it more because of the Asahi
Project. I'm not sure how long it will take before it's stable
though. There are also other nice things like being quiet, cool,
and having long battery life. The Windows laptop checks all boxes,
is a touchscreen, and has 32GB RAM and a huge battery. I'm
concerned about the RAM on the Macbook and 32GB is not something I
want to afford at the moment. And I also see that Docker
compatibility is a problem on M1 and it eats up the RAM pretty
quickly. Windows on the other hand has a plenty 32GB and it should
breeze through Docker because of WSL. I wanted to get your
opinions so as to weigh the tradeoffs better, and see which one
would be a better choice for the next 4 years or so. Sorry for the
long post but will really really appreciate the help! Thank you
Author : princevegeta89
Score : 9 points
Date : 2022-08-27 19:17 UTC (3 hours ago)
| shaggie76 wrote:
| One thing to consider is the keyboard layout: while I love my
| 2013 MacBook Air (still humming along long after it's Razer
| successor died) I always trip over the layout of the
| ctrl/fn/option/flower keys vs the ctrl[/fn]/win/alt keys on the
| PC keyboards I use just as often. True, you can remap them, but
| if you do you end up with cognitive dissonance if you ever
| actually look at what key you're about to press; to this day I
| find this distracting and frequently frustrating.
|
| Unless you're already used to the Apple keyboard layout I
| wouldn't be seduced by the sexy hardware and outstanding
| engineering; I know I won't make that mistake again.
| bediger4000 wrote:
| Apple MacBook hands down.
|
| I've had various Dell laptops personally, and of course used HP
| laptops on the job until 4 years ago, at which point I lucked
| into jobs where MacBooks were used. The hardware is just that
| much better.
|
| I should add that I never used Windows on the Dells, just Linux.
| jdlshore wrote:
| No opinion on Mac vs. Windows, other than to say that you
| shouldn't buy something you hate.
|
| I'd question the "huge battery" of the Windows laptop, though. My
| understanding is that the MacBook Pros have the largest battery
| the FAA allows on US airplanes. So it seems unlikely the Windows
| laptop has a bigger battery. Given the Mac's excellent battery
| management and low power consumption, you're likely to get better
| battery life from the Mac.
| hu3 wrote:
| If your work requires x86, as does mine currently, I would get a
| machine like Framework laptop with Linux.
|
| Asahi project looks like it will take a good two years before it
| "Just Works" for everyone. And from my experience, Docker
| implementation on macOS is still pretty slow.
|
| Windows 11 + WSL2 is kinda good. Depending on who you ask.
|
| HN demographic tends to favor Apple. Just so you know if you
| already didn't.
| zamalek wrote:
| > I would get a machine like Framework laptop with Linux.
|
| Throwing in support for this. Linux is the most sensible
| desktop I have used (Windows for 15+ years, Linux for 1 year,
| and MacOS for a miserable 6 months). WSL is incredible, in my
| opinion, but Windows 11 has been taking a very steep dive in
| the past year.
| princevegeta89 wrote:
| Is Linux officially supported by Framework laptops? I used
| Linux desktop for years but decided to give it a long pause
| because of constant driver issues and things like
| Hibernate/Sleep, Fingerprint sensors etc. Not working
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Put Linux on the PC if going to be mostly plugged in. If mostly
| on the go, get the Mac.
| thebruce87m wrote:
| I find Apple hate to be strange. They are just like any other
| company. They don't go out of their way to hire the most evil
| engineers and execs. They have good behaviours they should be
| credited for and bad behaviours they should be criticised for
| just like the others.
|
| Often the hate is based on misinformation too, when asked haters
| will say things like "Apple slowed down old phones so you'll buy
| a new one" - it doesn't even click that the word "battery" in
| batterygate is important, or that Apple was extending the life of
| handsets, many of which were out of warranty. They didn't
| communicate properly for which they paid heavily for but they
| feature was in good faith and survives to this day but I still
| read the parroted comment at least once a month in forums.
|
| The "overpriced" thing confuses me too - surely Apple can only
| judge that? If they meet their sales targets then wasn't it
| priced correctly? People obviously judged the specs, build
| quality, support period and thought, this is good value?
| mstipetic wrote:
| Engineers REALLY don't understand pricing. Models with higher
| specs like more RAM target the professional segment which isn't
| that price sensitive, most likely just having their company buy
| it for them. It's a way to capture more value from that
| segment. It's like saying why do these agencies charge $50k for
| a website, I could do it in a weekend.
| w4rh4wk5 wrote:
| Like other people said, I'd just go with the Framework, either
| Windows or Linux.
|
| I think there are a lot of issues with Apple and their products
| to the point where I'd rather not use them / support that
| company.
|
| One of many examples would be how they handled the butterfly
| keyboard issue. If a hardware vendor behaves in such a way, I'd
| never buy another product from them again. In fact, Lenovo also
| had a few 'support issues' over the last few years, because of
| which I won't recommend any of their products here.
|
| Maybe view it this way: no product is perfect; no product will
| fit everybody. When going for a Windows laptop, you have a _much_
| bigger selection of products (and vendors) to choose from.
|
| Pick a machine that fits your needs; don't bend your needs to fit
| the machine.
| behnamoh wrote:
| https://medium.com/@parttimeben/mac-it-just-works-horribly-c...
| smoldesu wrote:
| If you're going to use Linux, I'd just recommend getting an
| actually-supported laptop like the Framework or something. If
| you're going to get the Mac, I wouldn't futz around with trying
| to install an OS that still lacks webcam support and ARM
| packaging for common apps like Zoom. As for Windows... unless you
| intend to use it as a gaming laptop, I'd probably skip it. Docker
| simply works the best on Linux, but I'm sure you've already heard
| that before.
| viraptor wrote:
| You didn't really say what your typical workload is so it's hard
| to have a useful opinion here. I wanted to address the
|
| > it should breeze through Docker because of WSL
|
| part though. In both macos and WSL what happens is you end up
| running docker on a vm and communicating with it from the host.
| Similar overhead either way, with the difference that you can run
| some existing images on m1 without an extra Intel emulation
| layer.
| mstipetic wrote:
| I think your hate is unwarranted. I also never understood the
| pricing argument, it's not all about the cpus and memory and
| such, there's nothing in the windows world that comes close to
| build quality, battery quality and durability. If you're a
| software engineer working with docker a lot, a few hundred
| dollars shouldn't matter that much for a tool you'll use every
| day for years.
|
| The M1 is amazing, battery is insane, I'm running 20+ docker
| containers, python, elixir, react/vue on the 8gb M1 air without a
| hitch. My main work machine is a linux desktop, but I'm
| considering buying a Mac Studio as my next one.
| princevegeta89 wrote:
| Interesting, can't believe you're able to run all those
| containers on a meager 8GB. Is it because the swap ability on
| M1 is somehow better/faster than previous gen?
| gs17 wrote:
| The memory management definitely is better. I have an 8GB M1
| Air as a "work laptop" and I've never had any issues despite
| my Windows/Linux computers needing an upgrade to 24 GB
| because 16 just wasn't cutting it anymore.
| pbronez wrote:
| Exactly. M1 is a new processor design, not an iteration on
| previous intel Macs. It's not just "better swap" - it's
| "unified memory." This makes much better use of the memory
| available to the system.
|
| From https://www.macworld.com/article/234843/m1-macs-memory-
| isnt-... :
|
| "The M1 processor's memory is a single pool that's accessible
| by any portion of the processor. If the system needs more
| memory for graphics, it can allocate that. If it needs more
| memory for the Neural Engine, likewise. Even better, because
| all the aspects of the processor can access all of the system
| memory, there's no performance hit when the graphics cores
| need to access something that was previously being accessed
| by a processor core. On other systems, the data has to be
| copied from one portion of memory to another--but on the M1,
| it's just instantly accessible."
| tedd4u wrote:
| For something you're likely to use every day for at least 3-4
| years in part to make a living I would say $400 is not a
| material difference. Like $0.35/day and that doesn't take into
| account differences in residual (resale) value between Apple
| and non-Apple laptops.
| speedgoose wrote:
| I didn't notice much differences between docker on WSL or Docker
| on Mac. I use Colima or podman, Docker Desktop is not worth its
| price.
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