[HN Gopher] A New Test for an Old Theory About Dreams
___________________________________________________________________
A New Test for an Old Theory About Dreams
Author : Hooke
Score : 34 points
Date : 2022-08-25 23:31 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
| dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
| For anyone unable to scroll: just disable JavaScript (one click
| in uBlock Origin).
| beefman wrote:
| https://archive.ph/gbPvx
| felipelalli wrote:
| Paywall
| ohiovr wrote:
| Not all dreams are memories that are just regurgitated. On two
| occasions this year I saw images in a dream that I had never seen
| before but on the internet several months later I discovered them
| on random seeming occasions. The images were so stark I don't
| think I would not remember them if I had seen them in catalogs or
| old searches from long ago. The two dreams were of architecture I
| had not seen before. One of the "architectures" of the most
| recent dream had no recognizable purpose at the time. But now
| that I found it and understand what it was for, it gives me
| pause.
|
| It was this
|
| https://www.pexels.com/photo/drone-shot-of-fort-alexander-89...
|
| https://www.pexels.com/photo/the-fort-alexander-on-an-artifi...
| idle_zealot wrote:
| Consider that memory is not read-only. Later experiences cause
| us to reinterpret old and faded memories. We experience such
| reinterpretations as recall, but they are in fact rewrites.
| Which is all to say, the vague and unspecific memories of your
| dream were likely made concrete when images you later observed
| while awake evoked a similar feeling. At that point it felt
| like you had seen the place before in a dream, but at any point
| in time prior if were asked to draw the place from your dream
| you would have produced something different.
| ohiovr wrote:
| I believe rem sleep can be either increasing entropy in
| symbols if your mind is on over drive without access to a
| mediator such as myself without a certain medicine I take
| nightly. But if the mind and body are ready to rest rem sleep
| lets your mind experiment with experience as symbols so that
| tomorrow, those symbols can be unraveled into an outlook for
| a period of time in the future. This helps with the natural
| flow from day to day. There is always rem sleep but not
| always long enough or strong enough to make you consider
| drastic changes.
|
| After rem sleep the symbols that did not get integrated into
| a series get trashed. The memory behind the symbol is still
| there but the symbol reference is removed to free up the
| mind. This is where the feeling of mental rest comes from.
| Finally the actionable symbols are muted. Waking up feeling
| like you just got out of a fight of some kind is definitely a
| heedable warning.
|
| For that there is prayer.
| byproxy wrote:
| See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia
| teddyh wrote:
| You might have seen this:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Boyard_(fortification)
|
| It was, and is, used as the setting of popular TV shows (airing
| since 1990), and is featured in the intro and incidental shots.
| ohiovr wrote:
| Interesing possibility but I didn't watch much tv since 1994
| until I used cable tv in Nelsonvile from 2002-2003. Since
| then I only watch tv in corporate breakrooms.
|
| I was flying with my Dad in the dream and we were above what
| looked like a river. We had a discussion and then thought it
| would be fun to drop in to the river and walk through it.
| Before we dropped in during the dream there were these
| strange fortifications through out the river that looked like
| image links I shared but does not look like the images in the
| wiki. They weren't as tall and they were not as bright
| looking.
|
| There was no context for the dream. But the interesting thing
| was how memorable it was. Only about 6 dreams per year are
| memorable for me.
| teddyh wrote:
| You seem to be avoiding directly claiming to have had a
| prophetic dream, or be capable of remote viewing in your
| sleep, but this is what your claims imply. Did you really
| want to be claiming this? If you did, why is this a more
| reasonable explanation than you simply having seen the
| architectural structure before, and have since forgotten
| about it?
| agumonkey wrote:
| A lot of my dreams are totally fictional. Hotel in countries
| I've never visited, with detail up to the carpets. It's mind
| blowing because they're vibrant and full fledged resolution,
| it's if it was a long forgotten home.
| Filligree wrote:
| A lot of mine are fictional and events that cannot possibly
| have happened, or ever happen. Ranging from being in an
| airplane landing _on a bridge_ , to outright Sci-Fi...
| fikama wrote:
| I am always amazed by how realistic dreams can be. I have
| this thought that the brain simply could make us believe that
| they are realistic. I mean something similar when the
| ,giraffe-elephant hybrid in the tuxedo reading book, in
| dreams seems normal. Wouldn't it be possible for the brain to
| just fool us about the realism of our dreams?
|
| On the other hand, the brain generates everything that we
| perceive in real life what prevents it from achieving the
| same level of realism in dreams?
| jonsen wrote:
| The recall of a dream may be realistic, but that does not
| imply that the actual dream was realistic. If the actual
| dream is not realistic, if could be possible, that the
| conscious recall process is realistifying it more or less.
| 1e-9 wrote:
| Study Conclusion: Mouse brains track eye direction during REM
| sleep.
| mannykannot wrote:
| The authors claim this correlation is likely caused by the
| mouse paying attention to its dreams, while skeptics say no
| such conclusion can be made. One skeptic (Blumberg) is pursuing
| a hypothesis in which, in REM sleep, the brain is test-driving
| the body.
|
| The article was quite vague about what signals the head
| direction neurons normally respond to, but this paper [1] seems
| to suggest that they respond to head-rotation information from
| the horizontal semicircular canals - in transgenic mice which
| lack functional horizontal canals, "the neural network for the
| head direction signal remains intact in these mice, but that
| the absence of normal horizontal canals results in an inability
| to control the network properly and brings about an unstable
| head direction signal."
|
| As we know that the head-direction signals in sleeping mice are
| not caused by head movement, one of the first questions I would
| have is whether we can figure out what, if anything, they _are_
| responding to - or whether they are like the unstable signals
| of the transgenic mice. Unfortunately, one cannot ask a mouse
| to imagine that it is rotating its head and see whether that
| triggers the head direction cells, but in a setup where the
| mouse 's body and its visual field can be rotated
| independently, it might be possible to figure out the causal
| chains (For all I know, this is already well-understood.) If
| the head direction signals are the unstable output of a network
| disconnected from its when-awake inputs, and the eye movements
| are in response to that, they may have nothing to do with
| dreams.
|
| If Blumberg is right, could dreams be the result of conscious
| minds trying to make sense of the sort of test signals he
| proposes?
|
| [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26791205/
| [deleted]
| jesperlang wrote:
| Linking REM-sleep eye movements to dream gaze has been tested
| before, I don't know how the research behind this article could
| miss this?
|
| http://www.lucidity.com/slbbs/
|
| In short: Pre-arranged eye patterns have been successfully
| executed while in a lucid dream state.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-08-27 23:02 UTC)