[HN Gopher] A new vertical farm will grow 3M pounds of mycelium ...
___________________________________________________________________
A new vertical farm will grow 3M pounds of mycelium a year for
fungi-based bacon
Author : serverlessmom
Score : 99 points
Date : 2022-08-23 16:14 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (singularityhub.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (singularityhub.com)
| t_mann wrote:
| > The strips get salt, sugar, coconut oil, beet juice, and liquid
| smoke added to them, and presto--they're ready to be packaged and
| sold as MyBacon.
|
| Unfortunately, that's my impression of most meat replacement
| products I've come across so far - they're what I would consider
| mostly junk food. Highly processed, low in naturally occurring
| nutrients and rich in salt and additives (liquid smoke??).
|
| I'd much rather have plain mushrooms, even over normal bacon,
| which I find super easy to cook and delicious even with very
| little seasoning.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Liquid smoke is an interesting one. It seems like most of the
| really harmful compounds in smoke are fat soluble. Since liquid
| smoke is water-based, a lot of those compounds don't make it
| into the mix once everything is filtered.
|
| It does contain small amounts of known carcinogens, but if you
| compare a teaspoon of your average liquid smoke product to say,
| smoked salmon, the liquid will be a tiny fraction of the safe
| limit while the salmon will tend to greatly exceed safe limits.
|
| I'm not suggesting everyone should consume liquid smoke, and I
| agree, this is essentially junk food. You just put two question
| marks beside something I happen to know a bit about.
|
| The main takeaway with smoked products is that they can be
| remarkably harmful to your health, with the exception of proper
| usage of liquid smoke. That can be hard to hear because good
| god, smoked food is delicious.
|
| Smoked plant foods (i.e. tofu or tempeh) don't seem to carry
| nearly as much risk as smoked animal foods. I'm not sure why,
| but I think it is known.
|
| This study is 30 years old, but offers some insight into risk
| factors for meats vs liquid smoke:
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8224319/
|
| Since very small amounts of the liquid are used, one would end
| up ingesting ~1/40th or less of the carcinogenic compounds
| compares to if they, for example, ate a grilled pork chop.
|
| > Total PAH concentrations in smoked meat products ranged from
| 2.6 micrograms/kg in a cooked ham sample to 29.8 micrograms/kg
| in grilled pork chops, while those in fish products ranged from
| 9.3 micrograms/kg in smoked shrimp to 86.6 micrograms/kg in
| smoked salmon.
|
| Of course smoked salmon is the tastiest one on the list
| michaelbuckbee wrote:
| Also fwiw a teaspoon of liquid smoke would absolutely
| overwhelm whatever you were putting it on, in most recipes a
| few drops are more than sufficient.
| boppo1 wrote:
| What about my beloved islay whisky?
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Seems like it should be similar to liquid smoke in that
| it's in water and alcohol after being filtered, so, it
| should contain much less of the bad stuff than the barrel
| initially contained. These compounds can sometimes dissolve
| into water or alcohol, but it seems rare and the larger,
| filterable compounds are only soluble in lipids (according
| to wikipedia).
|
| That's not to say the whisky is good for you (great podcast
| on alcohol and health): https://hubermanlab.com/what-
| alcohol-does-to-your-body-brain...
| t_mann wrote:
| Interesting thanks. Yeah, I had smoked products down as
| something unusually unhealthy compared to the taste benefits.
| Interesting to learn about liquid smoke.
| quesera wrote:
| > Total PAH concentrations ... 86.6 micrograms/kg in smoked
| salmon
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbo.
| ..
|
| I was a happier person, approximately seven minutes ago.
| ForrestN wrote:
| Luckily that is readily available! The idea of these products
| is to prompt people to switch from _bacon_ , not from
| _mushrooms_. I 'm quite confident this is better for you (and
| the world, and certainly the poor tortured animals) than
| regular bacon.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| There's also still the issue of the environmental impact, which
| is not always as pristine as the PR would suggest.
|
| For instance, 'coconut oil'. So they now need to ship coconut
| oil across the world. Indonesia is one of the main exporters of
| coconut oil and the rainforest (and orangutans) over there
| might not like that too much.
| swores wrote:
| > _I 'd much rather have plain mushrooms, even over normal
| bacon_
|
| That's great for you, but it's not true for a huge number of
| people. For those people, who aren't happy to choose plain
| mushrooms over bacon, a mushroom-based product just has to be
| as (un)healthy and as tasty as real bacon to already be a big
| improvement in reducing animals farmed and (hopefully,
| depending on the tech used, but almost certainly especially as
| these production methods scale up and get improved upon) also
| be much more eco friendly than eating animals.
|
| If they can go a step further and make something as tasty as
| bacon (again, subjectively, in the eyes of people who don't
| choose mushrooms over bacon) that's also healthier than real
| bacon, great! It's just not as simple as only looking at
| healthiness vs ideals.
| t_mann wrote:
| That's true, typical smoky bacon is quite processed as well,
| I guess that's what I don't like about it.
| aliqot wrote:
| I get a pork belly, salt cure with regular salt, then cold
| smoke and slice. There is more process in chopping the wood
| than making the bacon. Where do you guys get this stuff?
| swores wrote:
| Salting and cold smoking _is_ processing it,
| "processing" doesn't require some fancy high-tech voodoo.
|
| And it's possible (I'm not particularly up to date on the
| science - but for example search for "cold smoked meat
| carcinogens" and you'll find plenty of reading material)
| that by salting & cold smoking it you're already making
| it as unhealthy as much-more-processed (for higher shelf
| life, product consistency, etc.) supermarket bacon.
| [deleted]
| Tagbert wrote:
| Pork belly is very disappointing if you are looking for
| bacon. It has all the fat but very little flavor. It's
| usually bulkier and doesn't cook down to an acceptable
| texture. Just a flabby kind of a disgusting mess. I don't
| really know why people often suggest it as an alternative
| to bacon. Not the same product at all.
| djur wrote:
| That's not the process used for a package of bacon from
| the supermarket, which is the relevant comparison.
| AdamJacobMuller wrote:
| > I'd much rather have plain mushrooms
|
| I'd much rather have mushrooms with real bacon (and some
| onions).
|
| I do agree with your broader point though. "meat replacements"
| are a fundamentally flawed concept, if you want to eat meat,
| you should eat meat. If you don't want to, there are plenty of
| great other options. The best is a combination of both however,
| absolutism in either direction is a fatal flaw.
| ArchOversight wrote:
| What if I don't want to eat meat, but still miss the flavor
| of meat?
|
| Why should companies not try to cater to that market that is
| trying to make the ethical choice yet may miss the flavor of
| meat based products?
| idiotsecant wrote:
| If you don't want salt and processing you aren't the target
| market for bacon, meat based or otherwise.
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| Many tall mushrooms can be pulled into strips that, with a
| marinade and good marketing, could probably be sold as
| mushroom-based bacon. I love cooking tall mushrooms with just
| lots of olive oil and S&P. Crispy and bacony--great with sunny
| side up eggs.
|
| Cheese also makes great vegetarian bacon. Just put grated
| cheddar in a pan and cook thin like a pancake and flip. It
| cools hard and crispy.
| Tagbert wrote:
| Those can be tasty but are nothing like bacon.
| goda90 wrote:
| FYI, liquid smoke is literally what it sounds like. It's
| condensation of smoke from burning wood. It can imbue the same
| flavor that actual smoking can, but it doesn't have the soot
| and ash that usually comes from smoking, so it's safer. A lot
| of "smoked" foods might actually be made with liquid smoke
| these days.
| coffee_beqn wrote:
| In my experience the flavor is not especially close to a real
| smoking - which is a cooking/preservation technique - not
| just a flavoring.
| [deleted]
| GordonS wrote:
| > they're what I would consider mostly junk food. Highly
| processed, low in naturally occurring nutrients and rich in
| salt and additives
|
| This is my main issue with most modern "meat alternative"
| products too - they're basically a high GI mashup of wheat
| flour, potatoes, sugar and other low-cost carbs, with a load of
| flavourings and salt added. And of course, they're often coated
| in breadcrumbs or batter. Basically any old shite with
| breadcrumbs. Even the macros aren't close to those of actual
| meat.
| coffee_beqn wrote:
| Most fake meats I eat like impossible have macros very close
| to real meat. And for the junkier cuts like nuggets often
| slightly better. They are salty though so I try to avoid
| adding extra salt to other parts of the dish
| GordonS wrote:
| I didn't mean the few expensive products that are meant to
| be half decent, like Impossible; my comment was more about
| the bulk of the market, which is frozen aisle nuggets and
| the like, mainly made of high-GI cheap shite and pea
| protein.
| lofatdairy wrote:
| Yeah, from personal experience and a few friends who are
| vegetarian, meat replacements are more about texture and
| flavor than actual nutrition. It's often the case that people
| who are vegetarian/vegan aren't so out of dislike for meat so
| much as other reasons, and these products exist to serve that
| craving. That said, most people I know obtain their nutrition
| elsewhere, the meat substitutes are far more expensive than
| the real thing and mostly just an occasional treat.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Though, for greasy products like bacon and chorizo, it
| doesn't seem hard for ultraprocessed plant-based look-alikes
| to be healthier.
| 7thaccount wrote:
| My problem as well. All the impossible burger or beyond meat
| stuff appears worse for you (nutritionally) than a real burger.
| I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it wasn't that.
| rafaelero wrote:
| That's an empirical question and I am not sure we know the
| answer to that yet. Impossible Burger definitely sound worse
| for cardiovascular health than broccoli or beans, but is it
| worse than meat? I am still agnostic.
| sosborn wrote:
| There's nothing scary about liquid smoke:
| https://www.seriouseats.com/pantry-essentials-liquid-smoke
| standardUser wrote:
| Most "normal bacon" is actually a tortured pig, fattened on the
| cheapest feed available and shoved full of antibiotics and
| antifungals so they don't spread disease in dense living
| quarters.
|
| By comparison, "liquid smoke" is a natural byproduct of burning
| wood.
| isitmadeofglass wrote:
| > Highly processed
|
| By that standard every meat product is highly processed too.
| Since you cut it, add salt and pepper and sear it in oil. It's
| literally just mushrooms with seasoning and cooked in oil. I
| doubt your enjoying your mushrooms raw all the time? Ever add a
| bit of salt and fry them in butter? Wham, highly processed!
| mattwest wrote:
| Their post referred to "most meat replacements", not
| specifically the myco bacon. When comparing plant based
| proteins (the overwhelming segment of meat alternatives),
| there is certainly a difference in processing. In a lot of
| the newest food science literature, scholars are even
| differentiating some of these foods as "ultra processed".
| ArchOversight wrote:
| Plant based proteins doesn't have to be processed... a lot
| of the newer "meat alternatives" on the market are trying
| to bring the same flavor profiles that meat eaters are
| already used to to the market.
|
| Beans themselves have plenty of protein in them, breads
| also have protein, tofu has protein, nuts have protein...
| none of those are "ultra processed", and those are already
| consumed by meat eaters too.
| midnitewarrior wrote:
| > fungi-based bacon
|
| No.
| jakzurr wrote:
| Love mushrooms. Love bacon. This is making my mouth water.
|
| Dunno what the problem could be, guess it just sounds yukky? If
| small amounts aren't bad for ya, I'll try it for sure.
| cgrealy wrote:
| Morally, I am 100% behind this. If we can reduce the carbon
| footprint of food, we should.
|
| However, everyone's morals have a limit, and mine is eating
| mushrooms. Nothing against people who like them, I just can't
| stand them.
| brnt wrote:
| I used to be like you; then I learned that I was badly trained
| in their preparation (cultural background). Now I know how to
| deal with them, I love 'em.
| wbc wrote:
| Has anyone tried this? How close is the taste to real/meat bacon?
| Symmetry wrote:
| For me, I'd be happy with it if it can fulfill the same role in
| recipes even if it doesn't taste quite the same. Beyond Burger
| doesn't taste exactly the same as hamburger but if I didn't
| know it was plant based I'd have thought it was some sort of
| ground ruminant and it still results in good chili.
| asdff wrote:
| I'm not sure you'd be able to render out much tasty fat from
| fake bacon like you can real bacon that has a ton of fat
| content
| kentosi wrote:
| Scrolling down shows that it's not available that widely yet.
| Damn.
|
| https://myforestfoods.com/mybacon
| Symmetry wrote:
| There's a charity, ALLFED, that I donate too that investigates
| techniques for keeping as many people alive as possible if we
| can't have agriculture for a few years due to supervolcano or
| comet strike or nuclear winter. One of the promising approaches
| is to turn our now dead forests into calories via fungus. So it's
| good to see people investigating the wood chip to fungus route at
| an industrial scale.
| AftHurrahWinch wrote:
| Very interesting! https://allfed.info/
| serverlessmom wrote:
| thank you for this! I'm saving this link to check out later!
| sudden_dystopia wrote:
| Big mushroom fan. But isn't all the sodium and crap they add to
| it to make it taste like bacon, mostly what makes bacon unhealthy
| to begin with? The saturated fat aspect is debatable or at least
| not completely settled.
|
| I don't eat bacon much anyway so I definitely wouldn't eat this
| on a consistent basis due to all the sodium but I'd try it for
| the novelty.
| boomchinolo78 wrote:
| Bacon is pretty unsaturated fat and thus quite unhealthy.
| VLM wrote:
| lipid hypothesis was disproven a long time ago.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Doesn't seem like it:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis#Consensus
| [deleted]
| nradov wrote:
| Stop spreading misinformation with that old myth.
|
| https://peterattiamd.com/how-did-we-come-to-believe-
| saturate...
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Funnily enough the HN comment actually demonized
| unsaturated fat, not saturated fat.
|
| But that link doesn't seem to contain any information.
| kuprel wrote:
| I don't understand why vegans try to mimic things. I have no
| problem eating vegetables and mushrooms but I would never eat
| bacon made of mushrooms. The devil deals in deception.
| Tagbert wrote:
| Meat substitutes are not really targetting vegans. The are
| aimed at meat eaters who what something healthier and / or
| reducing meat consumption. I am very much a meat eater but
| often have days where I eat vegan or days when I eat meat
| substitutes. The aim is to reduce climate impact and reduce
| dependence on animals while I am not will to completely
| eliminate meat.
|
| We have completely eliminated ground beef from our diet and
| choose Beyond Beef instead as it tastes better. I have tried
| lots of bacon alternatives and most of them are disgusting.
| Qem wrote:
| Probably most vegans are converts, raised by meat-eating
| families, that later decided to adhere to a meat-free diet.
| The problem is, once your taste-sense and food preferences
| are conditioned in childhood, it's hard to change them as a
| adult. So people seek alternatives compatible with what they
| are used to.
| brnt wrote:
| Actually, I have found this difficulty is exaggerated. I
| moved country twice and maried from another still: all
| involved significant changes to my diet. Yes, there is a
| mental hurdle, but like learning languages, by doing it
| repeatedly, it gets easier. Also, the rewards are exploring
| tasty new food universes!
| boringg wrote:
| It's not vegans who are the ones building this - I'm pretty
| sure its corporations who are looking to make money on
| veganism and the changing dietary habits of the populations.
|
| Most vegetarians/vegans don't try and mimic food like this.
| Just want you to target your statement to the right people
| --> companies trying to make money on niche/high margin
| items.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Well, you could say the same about all of the foods at the
| supermarket from Red Baron experimenting with new frozen
| pizza toppings to Big Apple coming up with new apple
| specimens to HEB trying out a new flavor of fizzy water.
|
| With the growth of veganism in the west, it's not
| surprising that we will see more companies targeting them
| with novel food products.
|
| It doesn't seem like there's any more conspiracy when it
| comes to alt-meat products than what underlies all of the
| products in the supermarket, especially all of the packaged
| goods.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| It seems straightforward that someone who enjoys the taste of
| bacon but does not eat it (for ethical or health reasons) may
| still want to partake in the experience.
| ashes-of-sol wrote:
| Klonoar wrote:
| Food is more than just nutrition; it's culture and art and
| probably more. Substitutes are important for these reasons as
| they allow people to enjoy without violating their
| diet/ethics concerns/whatever.
|
| They're not harming anyone by existing so I frankly don't see
| why this complaint comes up in every thread on the internet.
| Just don't eat it if you don't want it, meat isn't going
| away.
| coffee_beqn wrote:
| It's also really hard for most people to think of what to
| cook at the end of a long day. Meatballs and potatoes is
| the first thing that pops to my head and turning that into
| brussel sprouts and potatoes sounds unappetizing but
| impossible meatballs and potatoes is quite close especially
| if I add a sauce. I guess that's the cultural imprint.
|
| I do also care about the animals and the environmental
| impact and it's just extremely naive to think that a large
| part of humanity would switch from meat-based diets to tofu
| and steamed veggies. People are lazy and like tasty easy
| things.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Me either. I'm not a vegan or vegetarian or anything. I do
| know some vegetarians who are also pretty confused about the
| imitation meat stuff. It is these companies coming up with
| these products, not the potential customers -- clearly the
| companies have customers, but their products aren't
| necessarily universally beloved, right? Maybe they just
| assume that creating a good replica of a popular meat product
| will result in a popular vegan product?
|
| I wonder to what extent the customer base of these products
| is mostly curious people who are just dipping their toes in,
| not quite ready to take the plunge into
| veganism/vegetarianism. Or well-intentioned parents/friends
| who want to include vegans in things like cookouts?
|
| I dunno. I'll observe that people who've successfully been
| vegan for a long time (the kind of recurring customers you'd
| presumably want) have been following their dietary
| restrictions that whole time, I guess they don't have an
| overwhelming hankering for bacon or whatever. But then I
| guess they are hard to address, if they are already happy!
| serverlessmom wrote:
| A lot of my vegan friends really enjoy the meat
| substitutes- I am a meat eater and the meat substitutes
| tend to make me pretty nauseous.
| bee_rider wrote:
| My observations are based on pretty limited anecdotes, I
| certainly don't have enough info to make a robust
| argument.
| [deleted]
| nradov wrote:
| Even the sodium in bacon isn't necessarily unhealthy. The
| issues with sodium causing hypertension and metabolic disorders
| are due to complex interactions involving genetics as well as
| intake of water, fructose, and other nutrients. So we can't say
| that "sodium = bad", or even that people should limit
| themselves to a particular maximum level of sodium intake
| (within reason).
|
| https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson2/
| VLM wrote:
| With healthy kidneys the half life of salt in the body is
| about half a day, maybe less. Even with destroyed kidneys,
| excess will be emitted in sweat, assuming the patient
| exercises enough to sweat... The chronic high blood pressure
| problem comes from destroyed kidneys being unable to excrete
| the salt fast enough. Bacon being a rather low carb food (as
| long as you don't maple glaze it or whatever, which
| admittedly is delicious...) the problem kind of takes care of
| itself in that lower carb foods tend to be higher sodium but
| the lower carb levels result in less damage to the kidneys,
| and healthy kidneys are not bothered by sodium ...
|
| The worst case scenario would be "foods" that are both salty
| and high carb, which is mostly junk food and fast food.
| boringg wrote:
| The sodium isn't a problem. It's the saturated fat + the
| nitrates.
| presidentender wrote:
| Whether it's any healthier doesn't really matter to me. I'm
| excited to be able to enjoy bacon without paying for the
| inefficiency of raising animals.
| horsawlarway wrote:
| Don't really think that's going to happen. Pork is one of the
| cheapest meats you can raise.
|
| Just the spore costs to produce a lb of mushrooms can rival
| the total cost to raise a lb of pork (commercial pork can be
| as cheap as $64/CWT carcass weight - so $0.64/lb. Mushroom
| spore can be as high as $1.00 in spore costs to generate 1lb
| of mushroom). Processing the meat will raise costs, but it's
| hardly like mushrooms have low care/processing costs (If you
| don't know, they often require clean room levels of care to
| ensure proper spores without contamination).
|
| There's a reason white mushrooms (unsliced) goes for $4.49/lb
| at my local Kroger, and the boneless pork goes for $1.99/lb.
|
| I don't see this ever being cheaper.
| sibane wrote:
| What do you mean by spore costs? Wouldn't most large scale
| farming operations work with liquid cultures based on live
| mycelium? Liquid cultures are easy to multiply and inject
| into pasteurized substrate with needles. Once the mycelium
| has taken over the growing medium, it also no longer needs
| to be kept in a fully sterile environment.
|
| I'm not at all convinced a pound of mushrooms is worth that
| much more than pork. Are you sure it's not the meat
| industry subsidies that are keeping the price down?
| VLM wrote:
| There don't seem to be subsidies for Pork. There was a
| "Small Hog Operation Payment" last century that paid $10
| per hog for the first 500 hogs sold by a farm, according
| to wikipedia, but they got rid of that a long time ago.
| That is well under 10% the sale price of a hog.
|
| The problem mushrooms have is scale, much like spices. We
| can grow 20K acres of mechanized corn, but mushrooms are
| a little less mechanized. So its to be expected for
| mushrooms to cost as much as basil or cilantro per pound.
| gillytech wrote:
| Fungus != meat
| c16 wrote:
| Sadly fake meat is just as expensive if not more expensive
| than meat.
| oblak wrote:
| All fake meat products that I can find here in Bulgaria are
| considerably more expensive than meat. I an not saying
| impossible burger is more expensive than kobe stakes,
| though.
|
| It's mostly speculation, imho, as people are willing to
| spend more on these products. Some of these things are just
| as bad, if not worse, than cheap real meat. Back in the
| before going full veggies, I've tasted some horrible things
| that should be illegal. I am baffled people are willing to
| eat factory chicken, pork, etc. Shit is disgusting even if
| you don't care about the horrible lives of all the animals
| pvaldes wrote:
| Fortunately, in fact. This protects the rights of the
| majority that want bacon and not fakesomething silently
| replacing their food overnight.
|
| If the product is not meat, shouldn't be tagged as meat.
| KMnO4 wrote:
| I think their target demographic is vegetarians/vegans who are
| trying to reduce their footprint or use of animal products.
|
| > _consumers will likely be willing to give it a shot--
| especially knowing that it's easier on animals and on the
| planet._
|
| The ultra-health-conscious will still probably avoid it. Oreos
| are also vegan and not very healthy.
| helsinkiandrew wrote:
| > I think their target demographic is vegetarians/vegans who
| are trying to reduce their footprint or use of animal
| products.
|
| Presumably that was a typo and you meant non
| vegetarians/vegans?
| HeyImAlex wrote:
| I think it was more describing the rationale of the
| specific vegetarians/vegans; some do it more for health
| reasons, some for environmental/ethical reasons.
| sirmike_ wrote:
| I agree with your two points. It does seem to be targeted at
| a subset of folks and not the normies.
|
| https://myforestfoods.com/myblog
|
| They rebranded from Atlast Food Inc in that blog section.
| They also mention going after the "alt-meat market".
|
| Nothing wrong with more choices. However, nothing will ever
| really replace bacon.
|
| Begs another question of how well a food start up does vs
| tech ones.
| novantadue wrote:
| Seems a lot cheaper to grow mushrooms than raise pigs.
| brainzap wrote:
| not sure man, mushrooms need food too. Pigs can eat waste,
| can mushroom eat waste?
| uoaei wrote:
| The entire reason the kingdom _funga_ exists is to eat
| waste. You may have heard that dead trees piled up for
| millions of years before fungi came along, whereafter
| they carved a new niche for themselves in the ecosystem
| and consumed the detritus. Life finds a way ;)
| kamma4434 wrote:
| Fungi, not funga - it's masculine not neuter.
| uoaei wrote:
| _funga_ is the name of the kingdom, a recent change to
| align with the now-accepted designations _flora_ and
| _fauna_ (and of course _bacteria_ and _protista_ ). Fungi
| is the plural when referring to organisms (i.e.,
| instances), I am rather referring to the kingdom (i.e.,
| the category).
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funga
| jbboehr wrote:
| Seems like it has no historical usage[0] and is not a
| valid form of fungus[1], from what I can tell. Kind of a
| weird choice.
|
| [0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/funga [1]:
| https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fungus#Declension
| ksaj wrote:
| Pretty much by definition, that is what mushrooms and
| other fungi do.
| horsawlarway wrote:
| Possibly - but pigs are fairly hardy, and have very few
| dietary limitations, so you can often buy very cheap feed,
| or just let them forage.
|
| Basically - outside of the cost of the land, pork is
| _really_ cheap to raise, even for small farmers. As low as
| $0.64 /lb for commercial production, and around $2.50/lb
| for small farmers and families.
|
| Current mushroom production methods are _FAR_ more
| expensive (just the spore cost can be $0.50 to $1.00 per
| lb).
|
| This might scale to make it cheaper, but I'd be pretty
| surprised. Mushrooms require much more intensive care and
| handling.
| serverlessmom wrote:
| Creating more spores from mushrooms is incredibly easy
| and cost effective, so is creating liquid culture which
| is a process that allows you to create huge amounts of
| mycelial growing base you can then introduce to more
| growth medium(corn syrup and water that's been
| sterilized).
| idiotsecant wrote:
| Depending on the species used mushrooms can be cultivated
| very, very, very cheaply. You only have to look at the
| average cost of agaricus mushroom per lb ($1.5 - $2)
| wholesale vs processed whole pork per lb ($6- $7)
| wholesale to see that. Mushrooms also have a much shorter
| supply chain in terms of inputs and much less water
| input.
| inkcapmushroom wrote:
| > Mushroom roots are technically called mycelium...
|
| I think it's a better model to think of the mycelium as the
| entire tree, including roots, trunk, and leaves, and the
| mushrooms are just the fruit. After all the mushroom is just a
| reproductive organ for the fungus.
| serverlessmom wrote:
| I agree with this too, I think that the point of the article
| was to make it as easy to understand for people who aren't as
| familiar with our fungal friends.
| [deleted]
| vanattab wrote:
| Why is the clear paid marketing spam on hn
| roflchoppa wrote:
| We like mushies
| [deleted]
| beeboop wrote:
| I mean the source is a press release:
|
| https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220725005271/en/MyF...
|
| which is advertising in its nature. But I think there's decent
| conversation happening here which is basically the threshold
| for posting something on HN
| gillytech wrote:
| I am not eating bugs, fungus and highly processed fake "meat" in
| the future. I will literally move to a rural farmland to get real
| food before I buy into this ridiculous movement.
| standardUser wrote:
| Are you opting out of all future cultural and technological
| changes, or just these very specific ones?
| [deleted]
| kellyjprice wrote:
| Would you consider lobster or crab, bugs?
| jallen_dot_dev wrote:
| What about lab-grown meat?
| oblak wrote:
| It's been more than e decade since the first cultured meat
| stake was served in London.
|
| If I have to wait for much longer, my body wouldn't even want
| it anymore
| cdelsolar wrote:
| you're not eating mushrooms??
| djbusby wrote:
| Start shopping now!
| gillytech wrote:
| I watch a lot of survival/catch/clean/cook videos on youtube
| just in case.
| seibelj wrote:
| I tried the Beyond Meat ground beef substitute once to see if
| it would work in tacos. Stunk up my house with a weird smell,
| tasted off even with all the spices, and made us all feel a bit
| sick after. No wonder their stock is tanking. Humans are meant
| to eat real meat, we evolved this way.
| scrivna wrote:
| Genuine question.. how did you go from "Personally I don't
| like a thing" therefore "humans evolved to eat meat"
|
| Personally I don't like peaches... does that mean humans
| evolved to eat meat?
|
| Honestly it sounds like you tried 1 product, didn't like it
| and used that to reinforce a totally separate worldview that
| you already wanted to believe and reinforce.
|
| I don't like beyond meat either, I agree it tastes funny, but
| personally that doesn't make me feel like the only other
| alternative is to eat a cow.. I can just eat something else.
| asdff wrote:
| Of course we evolved to eat meat. Just look at your teeth.
| seibelj wrote:
| Meat is nutritionally superior to plants. Humans do not
| process cellulose easily. It takes far more plants to equal
| the nutritional content of meat. I tried Beyond Meat as an
| experiment but it tastes awful. Real meat is better.
| scrivna wrote:
| All of that can be true (I'm not saying it is) yet it
| still doesn't matter.
|
| I am perfectly healthy guy who doesn't eat meat and
| doesn't need to.
| newaccount74 wrote:
| Humans can eat a lot of different things, we don't need meat
| at all.
|
| But we also don't need meat substitutes, and I agree with you
| that most of them taste like shit.
| smt88 wrote:
| Who cares? You're a single person and no one is forcing you to
| eat bugs, fungi, or fake meat.
|
| These products are for the many millions of people who prefer
| an inexpensive alternative to meat.
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| Oh, but they will. They've already started:
|
| https://thecountersignal.com/uk-school-children-to-be-fed-
| bu...
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| This is pretty off-topic, but reading more about
| Christopher Bear and the research group, the children
| aren't forced to eat it.
| AirborneUnicorn wrote:
| For obvious reasons, I don't think this is a reliable
| source for such a claim by any means.
| aerostable_slug wrote:
| > These products are for the many millions of people who
| prefer an inexpensive alternative to meat.
|
| _Millions?_ Beyond Meat is tanking right now.
|
| Also, the substitutes are more expensive, not less,
| especially for products like pork.
| scrivna wrote:
| Stock price is tanking, probably because they started a
| movement and now they have 100 competitors and own brand
| labels competing... there's more choice than ever. "Price"
| is a premium because vegetarians will pay a premium for
| something by unique. Not because it costs more to make.
| smt88 wrote:
| There are more than a billion vegetarians worldwide. There
| are many millions even in non-Hindu countries.
| scrivna wrote:
| Mushrooms aren't "real food"?
|
| Yes it's processed with some additions, but so is a meat
| sausage.
|
| Talking more broadly, not about OP. It seems a lot of people
| have this cognitive dissonance (I don't know what to call it
| exactly) about what food is, maybe from their upbringing or
| religious beliefs or just society.
|
| I've spoken to people that are like "I don't like any
| vegetarian food"... and I'm like... so you don't eat fries? (Oh
| uh I guess 90% of what I eat is already vegetarian... mmhmm)
|
| Then if you dare get on to the topic of animal protein people
| are EXTREMELY conflicted in their views... if you eat a cow why
| not eat a horse? why not eat a dog, why not eat a monkey... oh
| hang on this is getting a bit close to eating humans... hang on
| are animals real feeling thinking creatures that while tasty
| also have some other properties maybe I haven't considered
| before?
|
| Hmm
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| > I've spoken to people that are like "I don't like any
| vegetarian food"... and I'm like... so you don't eat fries?
| (Oh uh I guess 90% of what I eat is already vegetarian...
| mmhmm)
|
| You can't (or shouldn't) live of fries. A complete vegetarian
| / vegan diet is not that enjoyable to eat, albeit all the
| processed vegetarian food make things way easier.
|
| I started brainwashing my parents at 16 with vegetarianism
| because I trusted the scienc struggled for 15 years to gain
| any muscle because vegetable based proteins are less
| bioavailable and eating a lot of proteins is hard. Got kidney
| stones because of the vegetarian protein shakes.
|
| After 15 years of eating a 95% low fat, high carb vegetarian
| diet (at least striving for it!) I started having serious
| health issues. Constant diarrhoea, stomach ulcers, anal
| bleeding. Took some meds to fix the symptoms and kind of
| live.
|
| 2 years of suffering and wanting to kill myself. The doctors
| were telling me I had high cholesterol (from what?) and
| needed to be put on statins and that I had to avoid eating
| the little meat I had. And anyway, it was probably stress
| related.
|
| After 2 years, I decided to do exactly the opposite of what
| the doctors told me and dropped first all the processed carbs
| (bread, pasta, pizza - pretty hard considering I love baking
| bread and pizza), then after not seeing much improvements I
| dropped vegetables and fruit and started eating just eggs,
| meat and dairy.
|
| All the symptoms disappeared in a week and I started losing
| weight. I eat very little calories (which is one of the best
| things for longevity), no hunger, my protein needs are met
| and I can still lift similar amount of weight.
|
| So, right now I'm on a carnivore diet, mainly for health
| reasons.
|
| From a moral point of view, I absolutely don't care, I would
| eat people if it were healthy (there are some deadly diseases
| you can get with cannibalism) and if other people wouldn't
| kill me (or eat me?) for it.
| trymas wrote:
| Anecdata where the data set is N=1.
|
| Similarly, from my circle I have a complete reverse
| example.
|
| Multitude of health problems that went away after going to
| raw vegan diet. IMHO a very extreme diet, but if it's the
| only (discovered) thing that helps, then why not.
| asdff wrote:
| At the end of the day no matter what you eat, life consumes
| life. Even for photosynthetic organisms, often times they
| perform behaviors that preclude other life forms from having
| abundance after the first are established (e.g. black walnut
| trees poison the ground around them). If you eat nothing but
| plants there's no reason to act all high and mighty, your
| life still depends on the sacrifice of other life. All
| farmland destroys local environments. You are removing
| biodiversity and introducing a mono culture by definition.
| Then there's also this idea of the human bias towards
| consciousness. We are conscious individuals and we are biased
| towards other forms of conscious life; only Jain monks or
| other highly spiritual people seem to care about not stepping
| on insects anywhere they walk.
|
| All you can ask at the end of the day is that all life is
| treated with humane respect. It doesn't really matter then
| whether your protein comes from a chicken or a bean if both
| are grown in such a way to limit harm to these life forms and
| to the wider environment. Short of living in the woods and
| homesteading, its hard to avoid widespread environmental
| damage to produce the things you need for modern life.
| scrivna wrote:
| Yeah completely agree, we all do harm and benefits to the
| world/society.
|
| I'm not making a moral judgement at all. I wanted to
| comment on the process of how people think (or don't think)
| about the reasons they do or don't eat things (like
| mushroom derived products or monkeys) saying mushroom based
| products are not "food" but eg cookies are food sounds
| silly to me. They're both just ingredients mashed together.
| scrivna wrote:
| Then they don't want to continue this conversation because
| they don't want to internalise what they're feeling and
| REALLY actually think about their choices because if I think
| I might have to change, and then comes the very human feeling
| of "I don't want to change" or "that's not who I am" as if
| it's bad to grow and change as a person.
| gillytech wrote:
| I have to say I don't want to continue the conversation
| because your reply is incomprehensible. This isn't about
| touchy feely internal reflection.
|
| All heavily marketed "trends" are predetermined to forward
| an ultimate agenda from the permanent elite class. Bill
| Gates doesn't want you eating beef and pork. He wants you
| eating his fake "meat" so they can shut down the livestock
| industry to save Mother Gaia from global warming.
|
| The AMA recommends against red meat because it's high in
| saturated fats. It's never been proven that saturated fats
| are the cause of atherosclerosis.
|
| Is this a conspiracy? Yes. But it's not a theory, the
| evidence is all around.
| dsimmons wrote:
| Why do we need bacon? I just want the mushrooms without paying an
| arm and a leg!
|
| For context, I live in the city and don't have a reliable way (or
| space) to grow them myself, or else I would.
|
| I'll be honest, these kinds of skeuomorphic alt-meats never make
| sense to me. That said, I'm someone who eats healthy by default
| and doesn't consume a lot of meat, so I understand that I'm not
| the target audience.
|
| But if you think someone living in rural America and eating bacon
| regularly is going to convert to this stuff, you're kidding
| yourself.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| If they can actually capture the taste, smell, and texture of
| bacon I would be highly interested. I'm mostly plant based at
| this point (except for awkward situations like family
| events...), but the other day I oversmelt some bacon and boy
| did those cravings kick in. Nothing like it.
|
| I doubt mushrooms can really capture the bacon experience,
| though.
| johnday wrote:
| Non-meat eaters are behind skeumorphic meat alternatives for
| the same reason car detractors are generally in favour of
| electric cars.
|
| Moving people away from the old sources weakens the entrenched
| power of those who benefit from the old way (factory farms and
| fossil fuel companies, respectively), massively helping with
| one first-order problem (animal cruelty and carbon emissions,
| respectively) and opening the way towards further improvements
| that would have been blockaded by those entrenched powers.
| [deleted]
| 14 wrote:
| Clearly bacon tastes good and there are lots of people who
| would love to eat it but are against killing animals for food.
| This gives them an alternative that hopefully tastes good like
| bacon but without the ethical implications.
| asdff wrote:
| You can grow mushrooms in a shoebox sized tub in your closet if
| you wanted to
| effnorwood wrote:
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