[HN Gopher] Not getting a new computer
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Not getting a new computer
Author : Tomte
Score : 43 points
Date : 2022-08-22 15:40 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (whatever.scalzi.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (whatever.scalzi.com)
| CivBase wrote:
| tl;dr: You can improve performance by clearing up some space from
| a full storage device. Also, video game streaming exists and can
| be a more affordable alternative to buying a boutique PC from
| Alienware.
|
| Counter point: it's okay to turn down the specs on your games.
| Modern "AAA" PC games are usually pretty good about helping you
| tune your settings to find a good balance between performance and
| visual fidelity.
|
| It looks like this author has a Corsair One, which I suspect has
| an RTX 2080 graphics card. He considers that "questionable for a
| number of new games [he] wanted to play". As someone who has been
| using a GTX 980 Ti for over six years, I find that very hard to
| believe. Maybe he's a very competitive gamer who needs high frame
| rates but doesn't want to completely sacrifice visual fidelity.
| But then how is the inherent latency and artifact from streaming
| an acceptable compromise?
| neogodless wrote:
| It seems the Corsair One has been around for ~5 years, and
| launched with a GTX 1080[0].
|
| Though I agree with the overall point that such a GPU should be
| sufficient to run modern games, unless you're insisting on 4K
| and higher quality settings with a certain frame rate target...
| which seems likely; he espouses GeForce Now, but laments having
| to play in 1080p. So it's odd that he isn't getting enough
| performance at 1080p out of a GTX 1080 (or higher). At 1080p,
| his CPU might even be the bottleneck (Core i7-7700K).
|
| [0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/11/15216182/corsair-one-
| revi...
| CivBase wrote:
| Huh, I didn't realize the Corsair One had been around that
| long. The GTX 1080 would definitely be a more compelling case
| for an upgrade. Hard to believe it will be three generations
| old soon.
|
| And yeah, it's odd that a GTX 1080 would struggle enough at
| 1080p to justify streaming. Latest "AAA" game I've played is
| Elden Ring and I didn't need to make many visual compromises
| to get 60 FPS at 1080p. But I haven't played many other
| recent "AAA" titles so maybe ER isn't very representative.
| I'm also on an i7-9700K, so your CPU bottleneck theory might
| hold water.
| alexpotato wrote:
| This post reminds me of two things:
|
| 1. You'll own nothing, rent anything you want and be happy
|
| I had no idea that you could now rent a cloud video card. We all
| basically started renting our music from Apple/Amazon, then that
| moved to movies with Netflix etc but hearing you can rent desktop
| components feels like a big shift to me.
|
| 2. The Second Life GoogleEDU talk
|
| There is a talk given by one of the founders of Second Life where
| he mentioned that they took, at the time, a very bold step of
| rendering the physics of the game on their server farm and the
| piping the video feed to the user. He mentions that this happened
| to be at the same time that cable modems became popular. Had that
| not been the case, he goes on to say that SL probably wouldn't
| have happened. At least, not the way it did.
|
| Given the above plus the "it's still cheaper to fedex hard
| drives" etc, what will consumers who need more data that can be
| streamed but don't want to own hardware will do? (consumers could
| also include the SOHO folks as well)
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| That's not quite correct, though, at least with classic SL.
| While a lot of the calculations _are_ done server-side, the
| actual graphics are rendered on the client. It 's not a video
| feed.
| illuminerdy wrote:
| Instead of cleaning out "some" apps, I would have suggested a
| complete wipe and clean install of his OS (after backing up, of
| course).
|
| Better yet, an SSD is always a great speed upgrade (I'm assuming
| he has a mechanical HD), as well as adding/upgrading RAM. They
| can really breathe life back into old computers.
| darknavi wrote:
| Off topic but Lock In (by John Scalzi, blog author) is a great
| listen/read!
| stinkytaco wrote:
| In the comments he mentions he has a mac mini m1 dedicated to
| music. I realize he's probably in the apple music ecosystem, so
| he can't just swap them, but it feels like he could be putting
| that hardware to better usage if he actually had an issue.
| incanus77 wrote:
| Or the other way around... I'm a developer and hardware
| engineer and use an M1 Mini as my primary machine.
| intrasight wrote:
| I'm not a gamer, and this is an honest question. Isn't streaming
| now just as good as local - assuming you have performant
| internet? If so, what's the attraction of running locally? Just
| to ticker with hardware? Running offline? Don't most all games
| now require an internet connection?
| wccrawford wrote:
| No, not yet, and probably never.
|
| I signed up for Stadia and was _really_ impressed with it. I
| played dozens of hours of Destiny 2 and really enjoyed my time.
|
| Then I installed Destiny 2 on my home computer and streamed it
| to my work computer. (I got permission, it was during lunch,
| etc.) The lag was _noticeably_ less.
|
| Likewise, I had the LOTR Lego game installed on my home PC, and
| streamed it to a laptop in the same house. The lag on the
| timing-related events was absolutely noticeable.
|
| Sure, you can play from the cloud and have a lot of fun, but
| it's definitely not as good as playing locally, and can't be
| because of the lag.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| Input lag will likely always be a differentiator between
| streaming and local. Most games are generally not designed to
| handle input lag at all, especially input lag at network
| speeds. The streaming services today have put in extraordinary
| work into this by using things like input prediction and "input
| smoothing" and those tools make games more playable than not,
| but it's certainly not an exact match in play to how the games
| were designed to be played and sometimes it shows, even when
| you have performant internet and good quick ping to your
| nearest streaming server.
|
| Of course, it especially shows as network performance degrades.
| (I tried streaming a game the other week on cell tower tether
| from a hotel with bad wifi and the input prediction was a bit
| like trying to semi-blindly navigate a PowerPoint or HyperCard
| deck of the game. Felt like classic Myst nodes with a worse
| game play user experience.)
| deathanatos wrote:
| ... like the author, I'd like to rebuild most of my current
| machine. I think I have a bad PSU, and I did the research,
| settled on what I thought was the replacement and clicked
| "purchase" and ... the site reliably times out.
|
| The component has even gone through a _sale_ , in the time I've
| been checking. The price isn't $70, EVGA, it's $[?].
| sharkjacobs wrote:
| Cool, I'm not getting a new computer either
| boardwaalk wrote:
| Oh please don't buy an Alienware. Those plastic monstrosities
| with non-standard (disposable/non-replaceable) components, bad
| cooling, etc.
|
| By all means, buy a pre-built computer, but at least look around
| a bit.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| One of the best parts about desktops is being able to upgrade
| pieces at a time. I build my computer about 5 years ago. It's
| been slowing down a bit over the last six months and I realized
| that I only had 16 gigs of ram. That was pretty good at the time.
| Now 32 is much more standard. Upgraded to 32 gigs for ~$120 and
| its been great.
| causi wrote:
| If you haven't changed hardware in five years it's more likely
| SSD degradation or RAM speed than the difference between 16 and
| 32 GB.
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| And one of the unwritten things of this article: He's going
| from a "difficult, but probably doable" scenario when it comes
| to upgrading piecemeal to "hope you like what you get" scenario
| with the Alienware he had ordered.
|
| It's not 100% non-upgradable, but there are a lot of bespoke
| oddball parts in them, notably the motherboard and power
| supply.
|
| I do wish these companies were more upfront when it comes to
| how upgradable systems are. Some may not care, but I'm the go
| to tech support person for a bunch of people, and I hate having
| to tell them they can't upgrade their machine like they want
| to, despite being a desktop in principle.
| deathanatos wrote:
| Both RAM and CPU sockets have changed within the lifetime of a
| build; any replacement in the set {CPU, Mobo, RAM} necessitates
| replacing the entire set, now. (Like the author, I'm at the EOL
| for a machine, and ... all of those might have to go.)
| mxuribe wrote:
| Yeah, maybe i'm old (and/or just have not conducted hardware
| upgrades as often as i used to years ago), but it feels like
| nowadays, the lifetime of builds and associated hardware has
| grown to be...shorter lifespan than in the past. Or, maybe
| its just me? I almost never play games anymore, and have long
| switched to linux for my daily com0puting needs, so
| admittedly that has allowed me to stretch things waaay longer
| than in the past...but hardware just feels like it needs to
| get replaced more often and has plain less life than in the
| past. Oh well.
| deathanatos wrote:
| Yeah, a bit, but it sort of depends? I have some parts that
| have lasted quite a while. The CPU in my current build is
| ~2012 and is fine; even stats wise its respectable, as a
| lot of the improvements of recent years have been rolled
| back by Spectre et al.
|
| But manufacture warranties are crap these days. Used to be
| a machine was warranted for 4 years, and a good one would
| last 10. But these days it seems like they're 1-2 years.
| Part warranties aren't great, but the stuff I've built
| seems to hold up.
|
| The 10 year old machine above current has a failure. I
| think it is the PSU, but I'm not sure. But in the 10 years
| it ran, the only failure it had was a HDD died like 4-5
| years in. And that drive was a used datacenter drive, that
| when sold to me had a "it's been abused in a datacenter, 30
| day warranty" on it, so it did fantastic. And I think its
| replacement is also now out of warranty, too, though I'd
| like to see it last a few more years, ofc.
| mxuribe wrote:
| > ...the only failure it had was a HDD died like 4-5
| years in. And that drive was a used datacenter drive...
|
| Wow, i have heard that datacenter drives (more than any
| other datacenter equipment) gets trashed the most...so
| that's awesome that it lasted even that long! Nice!
| illuminerdy wrote:
| Yeah, I do the same. Although my 1070 is very long in the tooth
| thanks to the last couple of years of GPU madness. And now that
| prices have come down significantly, it's not really a good
| time financially for me to buy a new GPU.
|
| Murphy's law...
| waynesonfire wrote:
| I have been doing this for over 15 years. The only original
| component at this point is the case. My strategy has been:
|
| 1) buy modern motherboard w/ cpu and memory at mid point
|
| 2) year or two later, max out memory
|
| 3) another two years later, i buy most powerful cpu that is
| supported by motherboard
|
| 4) repeat from step 1
|
| I also upgrade hdds / video cards as needed. It seems these
| components are upgraded more frequently than mb / cpu / memory.
| Though, my video card has been plenty fast for a few years now,
| probably because I don't play as demanding games any more. I
| also didn't skimp on the power supply and it's been performing
| well. I use a UPS to make sure the power stays clean.
|
| When upgrading the motherboard, I also evaluate the technology
| space to see if it makes sense to upgrade any other components.
| For instance, I may buy into NVMe in the next cycle depending
| on what my research reveals.
|
| I'm still hanging on to Windows 7. I'll probably upgrade that
| in the next cycle but it's been smooth. I use VMware for
| software that needs newer version of Windows.
| nomel wrote:
| > buy modern motherboard
|
| The next AMD CPU to be released will almost certainly have a
| new AM5 socket. I'm waiting for this reason alone,
| considering the _amazing_ support AM4 has had.
| AlexandrB wrote:
| > Windows 7
|
| Last good version of Windows. Possibly ever. I miss being
| treated as a user/customer and not as eyeballs to be
| monetized.
| samcheng wrote:
| If anyone out there is in a similar situation, building a new
| computer, especially if you have a lot of parts from an old
| computer to cannibalize, is actually quite easy and much less
| expensive than buying a new pre-built PC.
|
| Don't be intimidated! If you can turn a screwdriver, you can
| build a PC.
|
| (For an upgrade, you can often buy just the motherboard with CPU
| already attached, potentially also upgrading the power supply and
| RAM. Or upgrade the drive if you're running out of space. Or
| upgrade the graphics card if you want to play games. Everything
| else is pretty static and just plugs in.)
| 13of40 wrote:
| If you've got an old computer that's "getting slow" you can go
| a long way by just maxing out the RAM and putting an SSD in it.
| bdowling wrote:
| You can also look up the fastest CPU that your motherboard
| supports and buy a used one on eBay. A top-of-the-line CPU
| that cost $1000 years ago will be trading for far less today.
| This is particularly true of Xeon CPUs pulled from retired
| servers.
| gruez wrote:
| >This is particularly true of Xeon CPUs pulled from retired
| servers.
|
| Too bad xeon CPUs have different sockets/chipset
| requirements compared to desktop CPUs, so chances are the
| best you can do is upgrade from a 2/4 core to a slightly
| faster 4 core.
| deathanatos wrote:
| Up until you press the power button & get bumpkiss. Then you
| need a known good copy of half the components in the machine to
| weed out the bad one.
|
| (In my case, it was the PSU. It was particularly tricky as the
| PSU wasn't completely dead.)
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| > Don't be intimidated! If you can turn a screwdriver, you can
| build a PC.
|
| However, be prepared to sacrifice some skin and blood.
|
| Many times you need to get into awkward angles with your hands
| with a bunch of sharp edges all around.
| hunter-gatherer wrote:
| It's a PC, not a railroad.
| neogodless wrote:
| Having built dozens of PCs over two decades, I have not had
| the experience you're describing in at least 15 years.
|
| If this has been a recent experience for you, were you using
| an old case/enclosure, or a very inexpensive one?
| deathanatos wrote:
| The giant power connector that connects to the mobo. The
| one I have practically cold-welds itself in place: getting
| them to separate is on par with getting two stubborn lego
| flat 2x2s to separate. You can kiss your nail goodbye while
| trying to wedge it between the plastics.
| neogodless wrote:
| Ha it can be a challenge, yes. I even have a really hard
| time with the plastic clip on the GPU's PCI Express slot
| sometimes!
| illuminerdy wrote:
| For someone with large hands like myself, it can be a pain
| sometimes to deal with the space issues and angles. And
| those tiny screws.
| neogodless wrote:
| Also have large hands! I have had issues with screws -
| especially when my case was under my desk and I was
| trying to swap out a GPU like that. Though in the
| building process, where I place the case on a table or
| counter, I have a lot less issues with the screws! (And
| none of those issues involved sharp edges!)
| illuminerdy wrote:
| My most recent build was a micro atx case. The hard drive
| cage was especially a pain to work with. I've been
| thinking about a mini ITX but I'm not sure my poor
| knuckles could handle it.
| Arrath wrote:
| I have to agree. Fit and finish on cases has come a long
| way in the last decade or two. I do agree with GP that
| there used to be plenty of sharp edges and burrs lurking
| inside cases demanding their due of blood from the fool
| unwary enough to poke around inside, but that has greatly
| fallen by the wayside.
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| The last desktop PC I worked on was an old Dell Xps Tower
| that I ended up upgrading a lot of motherboard components.
|
| That thing was like an Indiana Jones trap in terms of
| slicing my hands.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Not if you have a Corsair One like the article author.
|
| On that particular model, even updating the SSD is a pain in
| the ass since (IIRC) the 2.5in one is at the bottom of the case
| and the m.2 is on the back of the motherboard which has been
| perfectly engineered to fit in that case.
|
| It also uses water-cooling on the CPU and for the upper models
| the GPU, using a custom loop that was created specifically to
| fit in the tight dimensions of the case. So good luck upgrading
| either the CPU or GPU easily.
| deckard1 wrote:
| sounds like every mITX. My m.2 slot is on the back of my
| motherboard. That drive has been full for more than a year
| and I don't care enough to take apart my _entire_ PC just to
| replace the damn thing. Going mITX was a mistake for me. I
| wanted to build a NAS and reuse parts from my mITX last year.
| Only thing I could salvage was the CPU and RAM. Now I have an
| old CPU on a new MB for my NAS and a newer CPU on my old mITX
| board for my main PC. SFF really limits your upgrade and
| reuse paths going forward. Limited PCI slots, limited SATA
| ports usually, limited RAM slots, the case is just too small
| and horrible to work with. Looks pretty sitting on a desk
| though.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| Another problem with SFF: proprietary case and/or power
| supply designs. I got bitten by that one with an old
| Shuttle cube. Great-looking design, but it was _not_ mITX,
| it was its own thing. When it became too obsolete, there
| was no upgrade path.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Most mITX cases don't open up like this, though:
| https://hardwarecanucks.com/wp-content/uploads/Corsair-
| ONE-1...
|
| In order to support that, they had to make a lot of custom
| components. This means that you wouldn't even be able to
| use the water coolers, for instance, since the loops are
| tiny. To get to the m.2 slot you'd have to basically
| disassemble the whole thing, and you weren't the one that
| put it together in the first place so good luck!
|
| They're absolute beasts in a tiny form factor, which is the
| only real thing going for them. They cost _far_ more than
| any mITX build.
| cevn wrote:
| I have to agree, it's like building legos except you're getting
| paid $1k to do it (saving on prebuilts!) although of course
| there can be good prebuilts as well.. but in my experience
| they're usually cutting corners somewhere.
| anotherman554 wrote:
| The sheer amount of Youtube videos showing someone building a
| PC makes it much easier than it was in the pre- youtube days-
| you can follow along with the people in the video as they are
| building their PC. If you buy a popular case you can probably
| find a video of someone working with that exact case.
| intrasight wrote:
| I came here to say the same, and to add that with a good case
| (I've a Fractal) there is plenty of room to work.
|
| I'd go as far to claim that it's almost impossible to mis-
| assemble. Throw a bunch of computer parts on a bench and treat
| it like it's a jigsaw puzzle. You'll observe that it's much
| easier to assemble as a) there are many fewer parts and b) they
| can only go together the right way.
|
| I built my new desktop four years ago and it's been purring
| along ever since. It runs near 24/7 and has all the local VMs
| involved in my life and work.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| > I'd go as far to claim that it's almost impossible to mis-
| assemble.
|
| You may still need to know how to read the fine MB manual to
| not leave performance on the table (which is what you're
| trying to solve in the first place).
|
| I don't know how brand-spanking-new motherboards are; I
| remember that around the time when Intel's 8-9th gen core
| CPUs were all the rage, they had a ridiculously low number of
| PCIe lanes, even though some motherboards came with multiple
| 16x sized PCIe ports. Only one actually had the 16 lanes, the
| others had at best 4.
|
| You may or may not care about this, but seeing how OP talks
| about GPUs, he may.
| neogodless wrote:
| Easy things include installing M.2 drives, RAM, hard drives.
| (Just read the motherboard manual to ensure you use the right
| slots/ports for optimal performance.)
|
| Medium difficulty might be installing the motherboard into the
| case (getting the rear I/O ports aligned just right) or
| installing the CPU with thermal paste into that motherboard,
| along with the heatsink.
|
| Hard difficulty is just getting all the wires run without
| obstructing airflow (or just looking "ugly"), and the little
| wires from the case to the motherboard in all the right places.
| Also if you install AIO (all-in-one cooling), you may have to
| try a few things to make sure everything lines up and it all
| fits nicely in your case.
|
| None of the above are difficult if you're experienced, but on
| your first run it might be tricky. And this doesn't include
| setting up the OS, tweaking and optimizing things... or knowing
| what to do if something doesn't work as expected. Sometimes
| you'll get a bad stick of RAM, but that usually gives off
| symptoms of half a dozen other issues, though with experience
| you start to default to that assumption, and find ways to rule
| it out earlier.
|
| Having done it dozens of times, I find it quite easy, but I
| also know that when things go wrong, they can be scary, and
| occasionally expensive. (A friend once dropped a CPU and bent
| the pins irrecoverably!)
| bloomingeek wrote:
| I've been using an old Lanboy 2 case for years, I just update
| the MB and CPU. Swapping out parts is really easy IF you have
| some instruction materials to help out. (I don't need instructs
| anymore because I'm done it so many times now.) Adding memory,
| as mentioned by others is easy. Buying pre-built computers is
| both expensive and frustrating because they become outdated,
| parts wise, fairly quickly. When my computer becomes slower or
| new tech comes along I just do the updating myself and save a
| ton of money, not to mention learning something new.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I think that some people don't factor in the amount of their time
| it takes to buy a new computer and get it set up sufficiently so
| the old computer is no longer needed. In addition to the cost of
| a new computer and environmental concerns, also remember the
| value of your time.
|
| BTW, the guy who wrote this article John Scalzi is a very good
| sci-fi/humor author - I have a bunch of his books.
| polotics wrote:
| Geforce Now has been a great experience, running Windows-only
| games on the M1 Mac Mini just works. Still: many games download
| content, require you to log in, and generaly annoy on first
| startup with a new computer. With Geforce Now you get each team
| an (as) new computer...
| rcarmo wrote:
| Funny thing: I'm reading this on a thin client
| (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/08/14/2030) that I set up a
| couple of weeks back, and on the second HDMI port of the monitor
| I'm using there's a Xiaomi Mi Stick
| (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/04/29/2045) that I've used
| to play Xcloud on.
|
| I have used NVIDIA's service on and off since 2018:
| https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2018/09/30/1600 - I did that
| because I'm (privately) a Mac user, can't stand fan noise and
| like to game, but have mostly moved to Game Pass for multiple
| reasons (full disclosure: Microsoft FTE with kids who prefer Xbox
| games to PC ones).
|
| The experience of streaming a full blown AAA title to anything
| (provided you have good connectivity) is pretty great these days.
| Zoo3y wrote:
| I've been using the same cloud gpu service as well for about 2
| months. It's able to run on Manjaro installed through snap. The
| service picks up input pretty well, including audio from your
| mic, but like the author said it will depend on the speed of your
| internet connection. The audio/video resolution will adjust so
| sometimes it looks and sounds like a 480p youtube video. It has
| been very pleasant to use for a city-building game I enjoy
| playing. I'm more inclined to try other sim-like games since I
| don't have to worry about storage. It uses Steam and other game
| marketplace accounts to check if you own the games you want to
| play. It may not be good for multiplayer games like cs:go or
| dota; I've been disconnected from a match and since the game is
| running on cloud I'm still "connected" in-game appearing as afk.
|
| Overall, I've been pleased with the service and plan to use it on
| a laptop for an upcoming vacation. Of course, nothing beats
| having a bare-metal GPU. I don't play as much as I used to
| anymore, so it's definitely a viable service for people who are
| sunsetting their interest in video games and do not want to pay
| for a gaming rig.
| ketralnis wrote:
| What's the city building game? I'm always on the hunt for a
| good one
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(page generated 2022-08-22 23:02 UTC)