[HN Gopher] Instinctive sleeping and resting postures: an anthro...
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Instinctive sleeping and resting postures: an anthropological study
(2000)
Author : rajnathani
Score : 74 points
Date : 2022-08-20 12:20 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| eatbitseveryday wrote:
| > Tribal people do not like lying on the ground in the recovery
| position while wearing no clothes as the penis dangles in the
| dust and can get bitten by insects. When the legs are in the
| reverse recovery position (fig (fig2,2, bottom), the penis lies
| on the lower thigh and is protected.
| ericmcer wrote:
| Finally my sleep problems are over.
| magneticnorth wrote:
| It's an interesting premise, but I am not at all convinced by
| this paper -
|
| The author comments "I tried to carry out surveys to collect
| evidence but they were meaningless, as tribespeople give you the
| answer they think you want", so this is in no way a scientific or
| quantified study, just the author's own observations.
|
| The only citation in this paper is for the fact that humans are
| one of 200 kinds of primates; I really wish there were some
| actual citations for the really fundamental assumption here that
| the "forest dwellers and nomads" have fewer musculoskeletal
| health issues compared to "civilised people" (in the authors
| words).
|
| Additionally, the photo selection here is kind of uncomfortable -
| starts with a Kenyan human compared (similar) to a gorilla, and
| then is mostly photos of the author himself in only his
| underwear.
| [deleted]
| rajnathani wrote:
| Also, the photos of the author in their underwear is to make it
| clear to the viewer about the positions being demonstrated.
|
| Also, the backstory of the author was that he was in the army
| (before he got blind), and spent time with people from Kenya
| then. Thus, there is likely a focus of a person from Kenya in
| this photo. Also, it is about finding people who are not the
| ones in developed countries sleeping on modern era invented
| beds and beddings.
| rajnathani wrote:
| FWIW, the author of the study is blind (though not born blind):
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18027950
| swatcoder wrote:
| It's easy to do since we just get handed a headline and a
| nih.gov link that presents the work no different than a study,
| but you're evaluating it on different criteria than it was
| written or published for.
|
| It's a discursive, exploratory essay published to the BMJ by a
| working/clinical physiotherapist to share some intuitions
| they've developed from reflecting on personal and clinical
| experiences.
|
| The journal it was published to has many different forms of
| work that it shares, clearly indicated in format and heading,
| selected by their assumed value to other professionals in the
| field.
|
| The person writing this probably did not believe they
| established scientific proof of sleep postures, nor would the
| editors or readers who encountered the article in its original
| form have thought such a claim was being made. It just would
| have been an interesting perspective to think about, maybe,
| before moving on to another article in the journal.
|
| 22 years later, it's interesting how we've gotten used to
| ignoring context and judging everything by one criteria. Some
| of that's probably due to efforts to normalize information as
| "data" with a predetermined schema so that it fits nicely in a
| database and only needs one stylesheet.
|
| It's kind of a shame, though, because it makes it a lot harder
| to appreciate things as they are, because we get so caught up
| in seeing them as a poor version of something else.
| magneticnorth wrote:
| This is good context, thank you.
|
| I do find the ideas interesting, but ultimately frustrating
| because of no grounding in anything that I feel like I can
| trust - e.g. is it actually true that "non civilised" groups
| have fewer back problems?
|
| But in a context where this author is known and trusted, or
| that is explicitly open to hearing observations based on
| experience without requiring any kind of citations or
| scientific studies, then I can see the value - I wish that
| was communicable here somehow, rather than looking like a
| regular peer-reviewed journal article.
| lkrubner wrote:
| "If you are a medical professional and have been trained in a
| "civilised" country you probably know next to nothing about the
| primate Homo sapiens and how they survive in the wild."
|
| But what is "wild"? Consider:
|
| https://books.google.com/books?id=LXmY3Q8qBngC&pg=PT74&lpg=P...
|
| "Homo heidelbergensis (700,000 to 150,000 years in Europe and
| 600,000 years in Africa)... were probably the builders of one of
| the oldest known types of constructed habitations found so far,
| at a site called Terra Amata in southern France. Several large,
| oval structures, 7 to 15 meters long and 4 to 6 meters wide, date
| back 380,000 years."
|
| So it is possible that humans have been living in nice houses for
| 380,000 years. And who knows what sort of beds homo
| heidelbergensis slept in? It's possible humans have preferred
| comfortable beds for a long time. Who knows? We have not (yet)
| found examples of bedding from that long ago time period.
|
| Conclusion: be wary of anyone who makes assumptions about what
| constitutes "wild" in the modern context.
| bilsbie wrote:
| > When lying on one side you do not even need the arm as a
| pillow: when the lower shoulder is fully hunched
|
| Hmm what. That doesn't sound possible.
| tetris11 wrote:
| I can assure you it is. You roll your shoulder inwards and
| sleep with your chin resting lightly on it
| mikea1 wrote:
| I just tried this for 5 minutes. Seems like it works well for
| me.
|
| The most remarkable part, mentioned in the article, is that
| the mouth/jaw closes naturally. Very interesting because my
| mouth naturally hinges open when I sleep on my back (or on my
| side with pillow). Given the many benefits of breathing
| through your nose (vs mouth-breathing), I am going to give
| this sleep position a try for a few nights. Each body is a
| little different and I enjoy n=1 experiments.
| webmobdev wrote:
| You are right. I sleep on the sides but with pillows, and
| suspect I am a mouth breather too. But if you don't use the
| pillows, the mouth does naturally remain closed. However, I
| am still sceptical about this as without the pillow to
| support the head / neck, I think breathing is bit more
| laboured. Moreover, in my experience, sleeping on the side
| puts a lot of pressure on your neck and shoulders and you
| often wake up with sore muscles in those parts of the body.
| Nomentatus wrote:
| One big lesson, is - try a firm bed. Even if it takes some
| getting used to, the chances are it'll be nice to your bones,
| 'cause evolution didn't know about soft beds, just hard ish ones.
| The older I get, the firmer the bed I need seems to get.
| webmobdev wrote:
| Yeah, I prefer sleeping on the floor now with a thin mattress.
| Great for the back.
| ericmcer wrote:
| Keep in mind there is a broad spectrum of human bodies around.
| Evolution also didn't intend for the average male human to
| weigh almost 200lbs. Softer beds may be a response to joints
| that have to support a lot more weight.
| joak wrote:
| Btw: people also invented hammocks (somewhere in South America).
|
| Hammocks are really comfortable, why comparing beds with sleeping
| on the ground? What's the point?
|
| Maybe to be able to tell something like "primitive people and
| gorillas know instinctively how to sleep on a hard surface".
| Really?!
|
| Try by yourself, there is probably not much of a choice, sleeping
| on the ground is uncomfortable in almost any position but few.
| Tired enough you will figure out.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| I prefer by far sleeping on the ground than in a hammock, I do
| that in summer (just a yoga mat, or it can be nothing for a
| short nap, and a t-shirt as pillow), it's fresher, it keeps my
| spine straight
|
| I think the benefit of hammock is above all to avoid all kind
| of dangers on the ground
| webmobdev wrote:
| I wish proper advise on posture was part of the school
| curriculum. Even when exercising in the gym, nobody pays much
| attention to correcting postures and strengthening posture
| muscles. Over the years, I've come to realise that without proper
| posture corrections, most musculoskeletal pain reoccurs. There
| needs to be more scientific research on Alexander's Technique,
| Pilate, and ayurvedic massage therapy (that many in India swear
| by).
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