[HN Gopher] LackRack: IKEA's cheapest table is perfectly sized t...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       LackRack: IKEA's cheapest table is perfectly sized to rackmount
       computers (2020)
        
       Author : bluehatbrit
       Score  : 286 points
       Date   : 2022-08-19 13:47 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (wiki.eth0.nl)
 (TXT) w3m dump (wiki.eth0.nl)
        
       | sircastor wrote:
       | I naively put an old LaCie 1U server under a Lack table 13 years
       | ago, thinking it would be a great media server in my living room.
       | I had no idea how loud rackmount fans were. It was obviously
       | unusable for watching any kind of media.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rayiner wrote:
         | 2U is a lot quieter than 1U. Those little fans spin louder and
         | put out higher frequency noise. Though probably still not quiet
         | enough for a media room. I've got a ruckus 10g switch and a 2U
         | server in my utility room and you can sleep nearby and can't
         | hear anything with the door closed.
         | 
         | What drives me nuts is power supply noise actually. I finally
         | bit the bullet and got a Mac mini for my home office.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Modern rack servers at least spin down the fans when the system
         | isn't heavily loaded, but it's still way too loud for a media
         | room.
         | 
         | For those playing at home, buying a 2U or even 4U rack will _on
         | average_ be quieter (still sounds like a jet engine just after
         | reboot until the SMC comes online).
        
           | justsomehnguy wrote:
           | > even 4U rack
           | 
           | Supermicro builds some _workstations_ [0] which were quite
           | quiet back in Xeon 5xxx days.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/x11/systems/workst
           | ati... be sure to check for the 'quiet fans', not the 'heavy
           | duty' ones!
        
             | justinlloyd wrote:
             | Interestingly Supermicro has a line of, in their words,
             | super-quiet fans they produced for their workstations. Not
             | quite noctua, but better than most. You can take those same
             | Sanyo fans in their plastic quick connect green cowlings
             | and put them in an 847 rackmount chassis. They are a drop
             | in replacement. And if you get the 1250 platinum PSU, those
             | fans run far quieter than their silver & gold line. I've
             | got a water cooled 847 4U server with a small rack of 847
             | 4U 45 drive disc expanders and it is a constant background
             | hum, rather than a small jet aircraft taxiing around the
             | room when using the stock fans.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | Most 4U cases use standard sized fans (in fact a standard PC
           | tower is 4U wide) so you can replace them with e.g. Noctua
           | fans that are a lot quieter.
        
             | bjoli wrote:
             | I did this to a 6-fan 4u case and it went from loud to just
             | loud when it needed to be, and boy did it move some air!
        
         | gregmac wrote:
         | For all the effort (and money) put into making a media server
         | as quiet as possible (which is still not silent), I think
         | you're way further ahead to just not put the server in your
         | living room. Instead, put it in the
         | basement/closet/garage/utility room -- somewhere you won't hear
         | it. Then, broadly speaking, you have three options:
         | 
         | A commercial box, like NVidia shield, Chromecast, Roku, Amazon
         | Fire stick or AppleTV. This is by far the easiest as you get a
         | remote, a "10 foot user interface" and they work with online
         | services like Youtube, Netflix, etc. If you care about
         | everything being open source software this obviously isn't a
         | good option.
         | 
         | You can also DIY your own box on a Raspberry Pi. Be prepared to
         | do lots of tinkering, though.
         | 
         | The other option is to get the media server's UI remotely. Long
         | HDMI cable, HDMI-over-cat5 or wireless HDMI gets audio/video;
         | some of those also do USB, or you can do wireless control if
         | it's close enough. Almost as much tinkering as a Raspberry Pi,
         | but could be cheaper if it's not far.
         | 
         | Another big benefit of the first two options is it scales to
         | multiple clients, if you have more than one TV.
        
           | Bud wrote:
           | I put a rack/cabinet in the laundry room, with a QNAP NAS in
           | there, Plex server is running on the QNAP, then an Apple TV
           | 4K connects to that and feeds the TV.
           | 
           | I like this better than trying to do some sort of long HDMI
           | cable setup, because the HDMI ports on most NAS units out
           | there get old rapidly, don't support HDR and high bitrates
           | reliably, etc. This way, it doesn't matter if the server is
           | brand-new and fast enough and all updated for the latest
           | video standards. As long as it can push the data out fast
           | enough via Ethernet, you're good. Updating an Apple TV every
           | 3-5 years is a lot cheaper and easier than getting a new
           | server every time. And a good NAS is a lot cheaper than a
           | full-out server would be.
        
           | lgbr wrote:
           | I can't recommend the long HDMI (or HDMI-over-CAT5, or long
           | Thunderbolt) enough. The noise isolation you can achieve by
           | doing so is unbeatable. Even moving anything short of a 1U
           | server into a neighboring closet means no perceptible noise,
           | so you're really buying yourself more flexibility such that
           | you can use almost any computer without thinking about noise
           | constraints.
           | 
           | Even more than that, I'll bet a lot of people who are
           | connecting a media PC to their living room TV also have
           | another PC somewhere in the house. With a long HDMI cable,
           | you can connect an existing PC to the TV, thus saving the
           | entire expense of a new PC. This is particularly interesting
           | for gaming, since a good gaming PC is a lot more expensive
           | than even some of the longest HDMI cables.
        
             | UncleEntity wrote:
             | Until your mom is flipping channels and gets to see what
             | you _really_ do in the basement all night...
        
             | muttled wrote:
             | To add to the HDMI-over-CAT5 instead of long-run HDMI, I
             | wanted to offer an anecdote: we tried doing HDMI with
             | extenders at a previous MSP shop. We had random de-syncs.
             | We were probably far past the 50ft spec for how long to run
             | an HDMI cable and the extenders were unpowered (basically
             | female-to-female boxes). HDMI-over-CAT5, however, handled
             | the distance flawlessly without powered boosters in the
             | middle.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | >Pictured above is Paul Curry's PS5 example, replete with vinyl
       | wood texture.
       | 
       | I don't think "pictured above" means what they think it means as
       | the image above is an outline drawing showing no wood texture
       | whatsoever.
       | 
       | Has the editorial process really fallen to this level? (Hint: Yes
       | it has)
        
         | nyanpasu64 wrote:
         | Between the outline drawing and the description is a tweet
         | containing a vinyl wood texture, but the image failed to be
         | embedded.
        
         | romanhn wrote:
         | The image above is a tweet showing just that (after the outline
         | drawing). Perhaps your browser didn't load it properly?
        
         | sharkjacobs wrote:
         | I think you have some kind of adblock service blocking embedded
         | twitter posts because when i look at that website there is a
         | tweet by Paul Curry of exactly what is described
        
         | klausa wrote:
         | There's a tweet embedded there with a photo attached to it;
         | perhaps your content blocker is removing it.
        
       | redhal wrote:
       | Also works great as a 3D printer enclosure
       | https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2864118
        
         | tssva wrote:
         | My Biqu B1 is in a lack enclosure.
        
         | bmitc wrote:
         | Lack is made out of super cheap particle board. Is it stable
         | enough to sit the 3D printer on? I would assume it would add
         | some errors to the printing process.
        
           | some_random wrote:
           | Not at all in my experience but apparently it's fine for
           | everyone else
        
           | actually_a_dog wrote:
           | I'm not even sure I'd trust it to hold more than a single 1U
           | server as depicted in the article, for that matter.
        
             | _jal wrote:
             | Adding more kit increases rigidity. A "full rack" would be
             | a stack of servers on the floor, with the table keeping
             | them stacked.
             | 
             | The least-stable arrangement would be a very heavy 1u
             | device at the top.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | weberer wrote:
             | I think you're severely underestimating the strength of
             | particle board.
        
           | dinkledunk wrote:
           | It works fine and lots of people do it, I have been using
           | mine without issue for a few years now. It helps to put a
           | concrete slab in it, but it's not necessary. The lack table
           | does have a tendency to amplify the noise though.
           | 
           | Here is a guide by Prusa to build one for their printers:
           | https://blog.prusa3d.com/mmu2s-printer-enclosure_30215/
        
             | nibbleshifter wrote:
             | Unsurprisingly, the same issues arise with precision
             | scales/balances as do with printers. Having a big heavy
             | base is useful!
             | 
             | I know of a few places that just procured literal blank
             | marble gravestones as a "base" for their analytical scales
             | at a cost far less than the usual mass-damper bases sold to
             | labs.
        
           | buffet_overflow wrote:
           | It's perfectly adequate for stability. People have suspended
           | printers in midair with elastic cables, or printed upside
           | down, and prints have come out fine. The printer frame is
           | providing most of the rigidity in this case. Don't get me
           | wrong, people that place their printers on spring like things
           | tend to get lower quality prints so there is a limit there.
           | 
           | The downside about the IKEA particleboard over hollow
           | cardboard core is more about sound and resonance imo. It can
           | act as a speaker for printer vibrations and amplify that
           | sound in the same room or to the floor below it.
           | 
           | A popular "mod" is to place a concrete paver block on top of
           | some isolation pad, typically made of rubber or sorbothane to
           | increase the functional mass of the printer and lower the
           | resonant frequencies created during printing.
           | 
           | I personally have two of those enclosures stacked, with a
           | printer in each one.
        
             | Teever wrote:
             | Oh boy is this thread relevant to me.
             | 
             | I just bought a concrete paver and neoprene mat to put on
             | top of my lack and I'm printing pieces for my lack
             | enclosure on my ender 3 as I type this message.
             | 
             | One thing I'm not sure about is whether or not I should
             | attach the printer directly to the concrete paver, and/or
             | if I should take the rubber feet off of the printer as
             | well.
             | 
             | If so how do I best attach it?
        
               | rustyminnow wrote:
               | I have a 3-lack-stack for my printer, but no paver. It
               | sways a bit when I print, but I haven't run into any
               | major issues without it. I should get one. A foam mat was
               | mandatory though; the hollow core lack turns the motor
               | noise into a scream!
               | 
               | I'd just try the easy thing first and set the printer on
               | the paver without attaching. See if that works before you
               | go through the effort of attaching it
        
               | Teever wrote:
               | The motor noise can be totally eliminated with an upgrade
               | main board from bigtreetech. https://biqu.equipment/searc
               | h?filter.p.product_type=3D+Print...
               | 
               | They are drop in replacements for the existing board and
               | are very affordable. I highly recommend them.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | ezconnect wrote:
           | I stacked 3 of them with a 3D printer. It can handle all of
           | them running at the same time.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | IKEA CORRAS Bedside Table FTW!
       | 
       | Photo of my newest CORRAS rack setup:
       | https://www.neilvandyke.org/kubernetes/
       | 
       | Sadly, IKEA no longer makes the CORRAS. I used to have 6 of them,
       | foolishly sold some when going minimal.
        
       | durpleDrank wrote:
       | Interesting interview with Shane Smith claiming Ikea furniture is
       | from North Korean slave labor camps in Siberia.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ0Kk8W1UJA
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | blamazon wrote:
       | Is this just a random coincidence? Is there some explainable
       | reason why the dimension is perfect? Surely IKEA did not have
       | this use in mind when originally designing this?
        
         | BeefWellington wrote:
         | I've kind of hoped some manufacturer would clue into this as a
         | possible side benefit to their design of furniture. But the
         | 0.0000001% of humans who want a rack at home are probably not a
         | substantial market, so my guess is this must have been happy
         | coincidence.
        
         | themoonisachees wrote:
         | It's a round number of inches that happens to be right,
         | possibly because "this size is good for a table" is what
         | probably went through the engineer who decided what size a
         | rackmount should be at the beggining of time
        
           | sschueller wrote:
           | I don't think it's inches. This is a Swedish product. The
           | tables I have from Ikea measure 55cm from what I recall. The
           | legs are 5cm wide.
        
         | okamiueru wrote:
         | Numbers game. Lots of tables exist with a lot of dimensions.
         | Only the ones that have the perfect dimensions are mentioned.
        
       | joemi wrote:
       | Somewhat relatedly, IKEA used to sell a RAST nightstand that made
       | for a good cheap modular synth case.
       | https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2015/07/06/how-to-make-a-...
       | Sadly they stopped selling these a few years ago.
        
       | mywittyname wrote:
       | I have like 10 of these tables in my shop. They are incredibly
       | robust for as light and cheap as they are.
        
       | dawnerd wrote:
       | Sad they stopped selling the lack that had a bottom shelf and was
       | on castors. I had a 45 drives server in it for years before
       | moving.
        
       | silicon2401 wrote:
       | can somebody with more server/home server experience explain to
       | me the benefit of going with a rackmount setup vs let's say, just
       | building a second PC to use as a home server? I recently bought a
       | house and am excited to get into home networking/home server
       | work, but don't know anything about rack mount. Is rackmount
       | equipment cheaper than regular consumer PC hardware?
        
         | qbasic_forever wrote:
         | Rackmount stuff is usually more expensive because it's more
         | niche or professional grade stuff. If you just need a pc for a
         | router it's overkill. If you need space for a pc router, nas
         | and dozens of hard drives, multiple switches, A/V distribution
         | gear, wifi and wireless hardware, home automation hubs, backup
         | power battery, etc. it starts to make more sense to consolidate
         | it all in a rack instead of strewn all over shelves and tables.
        
         | derekerdmann wrote:
         | > Is rackmount equipment cheaper than regular consumer PC
         | hardware?
         | 
         | Never
        
           | jakeinspace wrote:
           | You can find incredibly cheap (nearly free) used servers for
           | pickup if you're patient. If you have cheap electricity (or
           | better yet, provided with your lease), a 2013-era dual Xeon
           | server is pretty compelling at $50.
        
             | haunter wrote:
             | Wish I can find an Xserve for that much!
        
               | mbreese wrote:
               | Apple didn't make that many, so they would be tough to
               | find. And they were a really pain to actually use. I
               | didn't find them very friendly at all to work with
               | physically. Very polished, but had a feel of being over
               | engineered.
        
             | ska wrote:
             | That part about power is key. Some of the commercial gear
             | is thirsty enough you'll notice it right away on your bill.
        
               | jakeinspace wrote:
               | Thankfully I live in Quebec. My salary may suck compared
               | to the US but at least I get that sweet sweet cheap hydro
               | power.
        
         | BeefWellington wrote:
         | Separately from what others are saying about used equipment
         | being very inexpensive, which is all very true, I have a
         | different take on why I do it.
         | 
         | I'm a gamer and upgrade my primary gaming machine on a much
         | tighter cycle than a lot of other people, which means I have a
         | fair bit of hand-me-down hardware around to pass along.
         | Sometimes, instead of just selling/trading/giving my old stuff
         | away, I'll stick the consumer-grade stuff inside my 4U rack
         | boxes.
         | 
         | Basically, it comes down to customizability and the space to do
         | what I want in it.
         | 
         | For example, my NAS server's case has 18 drive bays. With
         | modern motherboards supporting NVMe, it's very doable to run
         | the OS off NVMe, a couple of caching SSDs and an array that is
         | 20TB+ large, and bonded 2.5GBe (maybe upgrading to 10 someday)
         | to my VM Host machine. Most out of the box NAS systems don't do
         | that.
         | 
         | My other server I use for hosting VMs and cracking hashes (not
         | crypto, think password cracking) and has a few older GPUs in it
         | to accelerate that task.
         | 
         | Nowadays a lot of consumer-grade CPUs have as many or more
         | cores than older second hand server equipment, and often can
         | run lower power (not always true). Plus putting it into 4U
         | boxes means I can more larger fans so it's quieter than
         | traditional aircraft-engine servers.
         | 
         | This is by some people's definition "doing it wrong" because I
         | don't have ECC memory, etc., but the reality is I've been
         | running it for years now and it's been very stable, with only
         | one hardware failure over the course of the decade or so I've
         | had this system together.
        
           | silicon2401 wrote:
           | > Nowadays a lot of consumer-grade CPUs have as many or more
           | cores than older second hand server equipment, and often can
           | run lower power (not always true). Plus putting it into 4U
           | boxes means I can more larger fans so it's quieter than
           | traditional aircraft-engine servers.
           | 
           | So you use consumer CPUs in rackmount hardware? Are you able
           | to use any consumer PC components in a rackmount rig? I'd
           | love to build a home server and I can see the benefit to
           | better ventilation/noise result with rackmount, and I imagine
           | rackmount uses the same hard drives, but are other PC parts
           | equally usable?
        
         | rr808 wrote:
         | The main advantage of rackmount is for big data centers where
         | you have a huge number of boxes and they all fit in
         | standardized racks. For home use of a few boxes there is no
         | advantage other than if you want to buy cheap servers off ebay.
        
         | digitallyfree wrote:
         | _Used_ rackmount equipment can be had for cheap when businesses
         | decommission them. The depreciation curve is much sharper than
         | typical consumer gear when it goes out of support. _New_
         | rackmount gear is very expensive.
         | 
         | Many people who have home servers (me included) buy used
         | enterprise gear for this reason.
        
           | silicon2401 wrote:
           | How would you suggest going about buying used enterprise
           | gear? I was thrilled to get a decommissioned optiplex and old
           | monitor from an old job, but that's just because I happened
           | to be in the office the day the stuff was lying around.
           | Otherwise I have no idea how to get that kind of stuff
        
         | metadat wrote:
         | Already discussed at length here on HN as well and especially
         | r/homelab et. al., algolia search to the rescue:
         | 
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
         | 
         | http://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/
         | 
         | http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/
         | 
         | http://www.reddit.com/r/HomeServer/
         | 
         | https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php
         | 
         | Good luck! Rackmount machines are their own world. Done right
         | they last longer than desktops with the added benefit of
         | typically being quite loud. Stay cool. B-)
        
         | jhot wrote:
         | I've been happily self hosting with used workstations from
         | local businesses that I have contacts at. When they upgrade
         | they offload old workstations for nothing. They usually have
         | Xeons and ECC ram and make great, quiet servers. Rack mount can
         | be really loud, especially 1u.
         | 
         | For networking gear, it can be nice to have a small rack, but
         | very much not necessary.
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | The only real reason to rack mount at home is organization: If
         | you have a firewall, switch, router, a server, a NAS, and a
         | backup battery, it's really nice and clean to enclose it all in
         | a rack.
         | 
         | However, rack equipment will always cost more than non-rack
         | equipment because rack equipment isn't targeted for consumers.
         | An APC UPS that fits in a rack is $500, when the equivalent
         | standalone one is $150.
         | 
         | Noise is another downside to rack equipment: It's designed to
         | run in rooms with massive air conditioners, so the noise floor
         | they're trying to stay under is "sports stadium".
        
           | ska wrote:
           | > when the equivalent standalone one is $150.
           | 
           | There often aren't actual equivalents available in consumer,
           | so it's hard to get an apples-to-apples comparison. Which
           | isn't to say a consumer grade piece of kit won't be fine for
           | your use, just that you aren't paying $500 vs $150 for "the
           | same thing", rather the $500 one has a bunch of feature
           | and/or component quality stuff you may not care about ( _and_
           | some extra margin, but nothing like 200% you suggest)
        
         | ska wrote:
         | > Is rackmount equipment cheaper than regular consumer PC
         | hardware?
         | 
         | Not even close for new, but a generation or two old can be had
         | very cheaply.
         | 
         | I was was once gifted a 128 node cluster (with the racks, UPS,
         | everything) to a lab for the tax write off alone - they even
         | provided shipping. The servers were only 3 years old iirc, but
         | had depreciated enough on their books I guess and they wanted a
         | faster cluster.
        
           | shagie wrote:
           | Shipping and write off is _much_ cheaper than disposal.
           | 
           | I recall as college students finding a VAX 780 on the
           | "getting rid of it" part of the engineering loading dock and
           | we got permission to get rid of it for them. Pushing it down
           | the street at 11pm was interesting (getting a weird look from
           | a police car going by).
           | 
           | It got gutted for parts (power supplies don't care too much
           | about what they power) and converted into a lockable
           | bookshelf and 14" diameter wall hangings (and some
           | surprisingly strong magnets).
           | 
           | The "yea, we let a bunch of college students take it" was a
           | significant savings over getting a truck to haul it off to
           | some junkyard even before the days of being very picky about
           | electronics recycling.
        
         | kennend3 wrote:
         | There has been a number of solid responses but my two cents.
         | 
         | It isnt about the "form factor" - but the cost. Businesses buy
         | rackmount servers because it is space-efficient.
         | 
         | Eventually they sell these off very cheap and unlike your
         | desktop grade equipment business servers are built to last.
         | while that 5 year old business server may be out of date for
         | them, they still have plenty of life left and can be had for
         | dirt cheap.
         | 
         | i have a multimedia server in my basement with 72GB ram and
         | dual Xeon's which i picked up for around the cost of a decent
         | desktop motherboard.
         | 
         | So in short. Rackmount equipment purchased brand new is very
         | expensive, but buying old "end-of-life" gear is very cheap. The
         | depreciation on computer equipment would put a car to shame.
        
           | silicon2401 wrote:
           | Very cool points. do you have any advice for how one can get
           | retired enterprise equipment?
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | When buying new and presented with the option, the rack mounted
         | option will be more expensive (because professional) and louder
         | (no space for large fans, they compensate with higher fan
         | speeds). Rack mounts are more interesting for network hardware
         | (because of lack of options) and second hand. Second hand rack-
         | mounted stuff can be very cheap for the performance you get,
         | but also energy hungry and loud.
        
         | flyinghamster wrote:
         | Most rackmount servers have some sort of remote management
         | interface, which makes it a lot easier to work with them on a
         | headless basis.
         | 
         | Pitfalls: Server-class hardware can take a very long time to
         | POST, as they're intended to run 24x7, and (especially 1U and
         | 2U boxes) tend to have extremely loud fans.
         | 
         | If you want a _quiet_ server, your best bet is to build it up
         | from a server motherboard and a 4U case, and use quiet fans
         | like Noctua.
        
           | themoonisachees wrote:
           | Careful with that. Server hardware is designed in a way that
           | assumes "cooling is free because i live in a chassis with
           | constant high airflow in a temperature controlled room".
           | 
           | Consumer-class hardware is more often built with the
           | assumption that it's going to get thrown in an all-glass case
           | starved of airflow, so they put heatsinks everywhere and
           | expect specific air pathways in a standard atx case.
           | 
           | You're probably fine to go either way really, but the
           | hardware is probably going to have a lower lifetime by going
           | for slower airflow.
        
           | kennend3 wrote:
           | this!
           | 
           | If you are concerned about noise, do not buy a 1U unit. Small
           | fans still need to move air. Since they are small the way to
           | make up for this is to have a lot of them and make them spin
           | very fast. The faster they spin the more noise they make.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | I have been really happy with the HEJNE shelf as a rack.
       | 
       | Here are some 2U's here at home:
       | https://s3.whalesalad.com/lab/rack.jpg
       | 
       | The shelf: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/hejne-shelf-unit-
       | softwood-s7903...
       | 
       | I keep seeing full height Dell racks for sale on FB marketplace
       | in the $200 range but haven't encountered the right manic episode
       | to actually go for it.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | It's not the rack that's the problem, it's the fans. Most
         | industrial gear requires a ton of airflow and the noise is
         | something like having a model jet engine sitting in your
         | closet. This from someone who actually did go for it and later
         | recanted.
        
           | muttled wrote:
           | I always think it'd be cool to have a server rack in my
           | apartment until I powered up a server in my apartment and it
           | far eclipsed the noise produced by the air conditioning from
           | anywhere in the living space.
        
           | whalesalad wrote:
           | Both of these R720's are barely audible when you are standing
           | right next to them. They are in my basement furnace room too,
           | so I literally cannot hear them anywhere else in the house.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | Is that running things on them full bore? I tried a server
             | case with a bunch of 1080's in it for some image processing
             | but the noise levels were off the scale even though they
             | were fairly large diameter fans. Not R720's though, so
             | larger fans. Interesting datapoint!
             | 
             | The worst offenders were the 1U units, such as routers and
             | switches, and a bunch of Supermicro 1U servers.
        
           | tlavoie wrote:
           | Excellent point. I have a Lack Rack in my office closet, but
           | the mounted device (Fortinet 100D) was replaced with a
           | fanless firewall instead. The Fortigate is still there, but
           | off, and the table still holds my laser printer up.
        
         | nibbleshifter wrote:
         | A few years ago we obtained a full size rack (with some
         | switches/firewall appliances included) for about 50PS
         | delivered.
         | 
         | The guys who dropped it off outside our second floor office had
         | a good laugh at our expense as we tried work out how to get the
         | bastard thing up there via a narrow stairs.
         | 
         | We basically had to take it apart on the footpath, heft all the
         | bits upstairs, then engage in the biggest 3D puzzle ever
         | without any instructions.
         | 
         | Racks tend to be _cheap_ if they are inconvenient. Offloading
         | it to us delivered for 50PS was a lot cheaper than paying for
         | it to be recycled.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | HEJNE is "ok" but really REALLY add the cross bracing, and
         | perhaps even add plywood to one side.
         | 
         | I have a HEJNE that is just holding LEGO with cross bracing and
         | it is visibly leaning.
         | 
         | I don't expect it to fall down but I'm also not loading
         | thousands of pounds into it.
        
           | troebr wrote:
           | I was wondering about this, I had a bunch of these screwed in
           | together as a cheap kitchen cabinet when I was younger. They
           | can be get pretty wobbly even with the braces.
        
       | OedipusRex wrote:
       | These are also commonly used for 3D printer enclosures. Get two
       | and flip one upside down and stack them, add some walls and a
       | door and you've got an enclosure.
        
       | CommieBobDole wrote:
       | As someone who bought a used 42U cabinet and somehow got it into
       | my basement where it will remain forever unless someone cuts it
       | into pieces to remove it, I can see the appeal of this.
        
         | tiku wrote:
         | Bought a rack for my garage, but I forgot to measure it upright
         | and diagonally because the entrance is way smaller, so it had
         | to be tilted in.. cleared the ceiling with 2 centimetres haha.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | The 4-post "telecom" racks are often disassembleable and can
           | be made to work, but you probably want to floor-mount them.
        
         | 83 wrote:
         | What most people should be using at home is a "knock down" or
         | "open frame" rack. The posts can be separated from the top and
         | bottom for transport. I use a couple of these in my basement,
         | fairly sturdy and I can move them when I need to:
         | https://avproducts.mccannsystems.com/avcat/ctl11226/index.cf...
        
           | muttled wrote:
           | Another option, if all your equipment can fit in the depth of
           | what's basically a switch rack, is to use a wall rack:
           | https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Bracket-Equipment-
           | Mounti...
           | 
           | Most audio and networking equipment can fit in there, as well
           | as some servers. Check on the servers to make sure they fit,
           | though.
        
         | AdamJacobMuller wrote:
         | I had to use a 4-post rack and a chop saw and take ~4 inches
         | off the top of the rack and then I had to assemble it in the
         | basement vertically since it's so close to the ceiling, it's
         | too tall to tilt! Figured that out the hard way.
         | 
         | https://share.icloud.com/photos/0cdcI0nzE1jyUF8mGNwdrnCTQ
        
       | computronus wrote:
       | Let's also not forget the Lack's crucial role in forming the
       | Standesk 2200, a classic standing desk hack:
       | 
       | https://alphacolin.com/ikea-standing-desk-for-22-dollars/
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | I used a LackRack for about 8 years, worked great. All you need a
       | is a couple of L-brackets from the home store and 2+ Lack tables.
       | 
       | Ikea Hacks is a site that has a lot of other things like this. A
       | lot of the stuff in my office and home lab is from Ikea being
       | utilized in a way it wasn't intended.
        
         | nfhshy68 wrote:
         | For a few extra bucks, IKEA sells a 4 pack of casters that
         | perfectly fit the base of these legs. Only takes a few screws
         | and your rack is on wheels.
         | 
         | https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/alex-caster-black-10480607/
         | 
         | https://ikeahackers.net/category/hacks/media-storage/tech-se...
        
       | ErneX wrote:
       | I built one with two tables. The legs are now empty so in order
       | to drill things to the legs you need to insert a piece of wood
       | that fits inside the legs and cut to the height accordingly.
        
       | some_random wrote:
       | I feel like everyone else is using a different Lack than I've
       | seen at IKEA, they're made of flimsy fiberboard that feels like
       | it's going to fall apart at any moment. I tried making a printer
       | enclosure and gave up because it felt like it would collapse from
       | a strong breeze. If you're going to put in all this work, you
       | should probably use better materials from the beginning.
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | they're made from flimsy fiberboard, but if you actually crack
         | one open you'll see that all the joints are reinforced with
         | wooden blocking, and the flat surfaces are filled with
         | corrugated material. they're light, and if you get any water
         | past the exterior finishing they disintigrate. but they're
         | deceptively strong as long as all the joints are screwed
         | together tightly.
        
         | agloeregrets wrote:
         | They are stronger than they look. keep in mind that all joints
         | in a lack have no cross brace so the leg-surface joint is
         | actually pretty strong.
         | 
         | The big thing is that a tight install of the legs and adding
         | tension and mounting the hardware helps cross re-enforce them.
         | The examples where people use a second lack top as the bottom
         | are WAY more reenforced than one would expect, you probably
         | could use it as a chair.
        
         | ezconnect wrote:
         | I had 3 of them stack on top of each other, all with 3D printer
         | and power supply and filaments for more than 2 years. It is
         | very strong and sturdy. It didn't shake or sag.
        
       | trollied wrote:
       | Needs a (2020).
       | 
       | See also:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978013
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1067283
        
         | bluehatbrit wrote:
         | Thanks I forgot about that, added the (2020) marker now.
        
       | inopinatus wrote:
       | The LACK has also been a staple of thrifty musicians for decades.
       | As a student in the early 90s supporting myself playing clubs and
       | bars, I had a quadraverb, mixer, compressor, and foldback amp
       | bolted into a single, reasonably portable unit I could also rest
       | a beer (or myself) on.
        
       | q-big wrote:
       | In the article linked at the end
       | 
       | > https://spuder.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/lack-rack/
       | 
       | you can read (emphasis by me):
       | 
       | "If you decide to make your own, pay attention to which size lack
       | rack you get. IKEA _strangely_ offers 2 slightly different sizes
       | 
       | 22 inch
       | 
       | and
       | 
       | 21 5/8 inch."
       | 
       | In my opinion the explanation for this is clear: 22 is a round
       | number in inches and 21 5/8 inch is nearly a round number in
       | centimeters (21,625 inch = 54,9275 cm [?] 55 cm).
        
         | zandor wrote:
         | This reminds of the many recipes that convert from Fahrenheit
         | to Celsius (and vice versa for that matter) and don't round off
         | the numbers properly.
         | 
         | I'm not setting my oven to 176 degrees Celsius even if I could.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | This non-rounded numbers make people think that there's
           | something terribly important at being X degrees and not X+1,
           | not realizing that the internal temps vary _widely_ even when
           | set specific.
           | 
           | I feel recipes have caused more people to avoid cooking than
           | anything invented in the last 1000 years, heh.
        
             | strbean wrote:
             | With regard to recipes, I sometimes wonder if "round
             | numbers" are causing us to miss out on more optimal
             | recipes. Maybe that dish really would turn out better
             | cooked at 176F, or with 1 and 7/16 cups of flour instead of
             | 1.5.
        
               | extrapickles wrote:
               | It's easier to use weight instead of volume if you want
               | measurements more precise than a 1/4 cup.
               | 
               | Most home ovens struggle to hit the set point to within
               | 25F for most of their internal volume. They also have
               | large swings in temperature as cheap heating elements do
               | not respond quickly.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | They somewhat do - this is the "skill" in being a chef,
               | knowing what ingredients to add/reduce to get the result
               | you want.
        
               | sophacles wrote:
               | Why the quotes around skill?
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Grocer's quotes for emphasis.
        
               | notatoad wrote:
               | neither your oven's thermostat or your measuring cups are
               | precise enough for either of those examples to make any
               | difference.
               | 
               | recipes routinely call for "1 large egg". think about the
               | amount of variance that can be present in that
               | measurement, and assume every other measurement can vary
               | by the same amount.
        
               | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
               | When it comes to flour, I don't understand why the USA
               | insists on measuring it by volume when the rest of the
               | world does it by mass. The density of flour can vary
               | widely depending on if it's packed at all, and scooping
               | it often leads to voids in the bottom of the measuring
               | cup that you likely won't see unless you're using a clear
               | measuring cup.
               | 
               | When using flour or baking mixes, I convert to grams (1
               | cup all-purpose flour = 125 grams) and do it by mass to
               | ensure it's the proper amount.
        
               | taftster wrote:
               | This is interesting! And makes total sense. I didn't know
               | that the rest of the world (smartly) measures flour in
               | terms of mass not volume. And your conversion factor is
               | really helpful, thank you.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Every American kitchen has measuring cups, few have
               | scales. And people learn that method and continue to use
               | it (most people don't even know about zeroing a scale
               | after you add each ingredient).
               | 
               | It may also be that US measuring cups are "more
               | convenient" sizes than the equivalent metric ones would
               | be.
               | 
               | For flour, they often specify "sifted" which removes some
               | of the variability.
        
               | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
               | > Every American kitchen has measuring cups, few have
               | scales.
               | 
               | There's no reason Americans can't buy scales.
               | 
               | I got mine for $15 at Costco 10+ years ago. You can still
               | get them from Amazon or Walmart for less than that.
               | 
               | > It may also be that US measuring cups are "more
               | convenient" sizes than the equivalent metric ones would
               | be.
               | 
               | When measuring out flour, I don't use a measuring cup at
               | all. I put a bowl on my scale, hit the Tare button to
               | zero it out, then add whatever number of grams of flour I
               | need to the bowl.
               | 
               | > For flour, they often specify "sifted" which removes
               | some of the variability.
               | 
               | That's gotta be awkward to sift into a measuring cup.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | The problem is recipe book authors want to sell to _all_
               | Americans (especially that group that always buys recipe
               | books but never actually _uses_ them) and so they aim at
               | the widest possible market.
        
               | skykooler wrote:
               | And as a result, most Americans never get scales since
               | their recipes don't call for them.
        
               | shard wrote:
               | The reason is momentum. Switching to measuring flour by
               | weight will require households to have both measuring
               | cups and scales, require recipes to be rewritten, require
               | cooks with an intuition based on volume to relearn the
               | intuition based on weight. None of this is
               | insurmountable, just like none of the reasons for
               | switching from imperial to metric are insurmountable, but
               | for people getting things done, it's not enough of an
               | issue to worth making the switch, so this kind of switch
               | would require an institution or coalition with enough
               | clout to make the switch and pull everyone else along.
               | For cooking, I don't believe such an institution or
               | coalition exists.
        
               | wheels wrote:
               | You find temperatures that precise when they're for
               | equipment that can hit it: a sous vide steak at 56o C is
               | different from a sous vide steak at 58o C. It just makes
               | no sense for an oven, which is a pretty blunt instrument.
        
               | skrtskrt wrote:
               | I think you're only going to see that benefit if, as
               | mentioned you have a super precise oven, or you're
               | getting super precise ingredient quality every time.
               | 
               | Otherwise there's too many variables fluctuating every
               | time to really attribute much to those tiny variations in
               | the recipe.
        
         | taftster wrote:
         | Edit: Nope, just didn't scroll far enough. They also list the
         | 22" on their site as well. But still, which size is best for
         | mounting?
         | 
         | old: _The IKEA website only lists the 21-5 /8" version. Is 22"
         | required for computer rack use?_
        
       | toxik wrote:
       | LACK is not a sturdy piece of furniture. I broke a leg off of one
       | when I snubbed my foot on it; it came apart /at the table/, the
       | whole corner section just came off.
        
         | thinkling wrote:
         | Clearly it should be reinforced with a few 1U cross braces!
        
           | toxik wrote:
           | Not a bad idea, and I suspect it's the MDF material coming
           | undone over time due to moisture or something. I really did
           | not hit the table hard at all!
        
       | DonHopkins wrote:
       | That looks a lot sturdier than Apple's iRack.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw2nkoGLhrE
        
       | jerrysievert wrote:
       | I bought a couple of used lack's as I was planning on mixing
       | eurorack with other equipment. I ended up keeping the lack's, but
       | instead putting 16u free-standing racks on the top of each one -
       | ended up working perfectly: 1u power supply, with 5 3u enclosures
       | for eurorack on each.
       | 
       | ended up working out much better than my plan.
        
       | shagie wrote:
       | The less advert laden site:
       | https://wiki.eth0.nl/index.php/LackRack
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Ok, we've changed to that from
         | https://boingboing.net/2020/08/14/lack-rack-ikeas-
         | cheapest-t.... Thanks!
        
         | bluehatbrit wrote:
         | Apologies, I run an adblocker so didn't see the ads on this
         | page. Perhaps @dang could update it to point at that page
         | instead?
        
       | stacktrust wrote:
       | There has been a construction industry effort to standardize
       | "structured wiring" panels for low-voltage (alarms, A/V,
       | ethernet, wifi) wiring connections in homes, but it has not quite
       | kept up with the rapid expansion of devices for home networking,
       | including mixtures of consumer and repurposed enterprise
       | equipment.
       | 
       | Tripp Lite has an elegant vertical, low-profile, 3U wall-mounted
       | enclosure that fits over existing structured wiring panels, which
       | can accommodate both rack-mountable gear and odd-sized items like
       | modems and access points. Price is ~$500, comparable to 12U wall-
       | mountable racks that ship fully assembled.
       | 
       | SRWF6UMOD specs, https://www.tripplite.com/smartrack-3u-low-
       | profile-vertical-...
       | 
       | video review (2020) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XcYbr0L4WY
       | 
       | It might be possible to build a low-cost DIY clone, with 1/4"
       | pegboard for the odd-sized items and a StarTech vertical frame
       | for the rack gear. Hammond perforated metal panels (1/8" holes
       | for self-tapping screws) could also be repurposed,
       | https://www.hammfg.com/electrical/products/accessories/appp
       | 
       | For comparison, there are structured wiring product lines from
       | Leviton,
       | https://www.leviton.com/en/products/residential/networking/s...
       | and Legrand, https://www.legrand.us/solutions/structured-wiring,
       | but they don't typically support a mixture of home and rack kit.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | I have those tables as cheap quick tables (that can stack) for
       | kids activities. Very nice for a quick surface / desk for the
       | little kids.
        
       | daneel_w wrote:
       | The melamine pads under the feet of the Lack tables become
       | brittle with time and eventually crack under only 30-ish kg of
       | weight, causing the table to slant. My own experience.
        
         | bborud wrote:
         | I wonder if it would help to fill them with some high density
         | expanding foam? (Using some form of resin would probably be
         | prohibitively expensive).
        
           | daneel_w wrote:
           | Maybe snap/chisel the melamine off and replace with felt pads
           | or something.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ErneX wrote:
           | What I did was get wood sticks cut to the exact size that
           | fits inside the legs, then you can drill stuff safely to it.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | If you are really desperate, sure, but please don't trust
       | thousands of dollars of hardware on a $10 cardboard table. Ikea
       | furniture quality has been going downhill extremely fast.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Ikea oscillates in quality. Originally it was super good, then
         | they had a cardboard period (1990's) and then when they started
         | to be associated with 'painted cardboard' they upped their game
         | and started to make quality stuff again (easily distinguished
         | from the painted cardboard by the price). The last couple of
         | years it has indeed been downhill and very rapidly so. I've
         | found that a sharp tap on a part will tell you all you need to
         | know, the cardboard will give and flex whereas the solid parts
         | will hold up nicely.
         | 
         | The honeycombed structures are quite strong for their weight
         | but not strong in absolute terms and you definitely don't want
         | a book case made of that stuff.
        
       | zhdc1 wrote:
       | Had a LackRack(ish) running in my closet for a year or so.
       | 
       | It's a good and dirty way to free up space on top of your
       | server(s) for a monitor and keyboard.
        
       | pdntspa wrote:
       | > and you can put your bottle of Club-Mate
       | 
       | Damn it, now you're really making me pine!
       | 
       | Why must this stuff be so hard to get in the US? Last I checked
       | there were two different companies handling distribution in the
       | US and NEITHER of them seem to stock it anywhere! Except for one
       | shop in LA that half the time carries expired bottles!
       | 
       | The caffeine high from Club-Mate is such a pleasantly sublime
       | feeling. And you used to be able to order it from the 2600 store.
       | I still have the yellow case!
        
         | wheels wrote:
         | Amusingly, even thought I live in Berlin and have it readily
         | available, I tried to make it myself by making mate
         | concentrate, sugar, and a tiny bit of lemon. I got the taste
         | just about right, but more mate-y with the really grassy,
         | earthy taste of mate. But it had so much caffeine that I
         | couldn't think straight and felt jumpy. I came to the
         | conclusion that Club Mate doesn't actually contain much mate.
         | 
         | But if you love the stuff and can't get it, it's not hard to
         | experiment. Those are basically the only ingredients.
        
         | Jtsummers wrote:
         | Try other mate-based drinks, variations of yerba mate beverages
         | can be found in most US grocery stores (with increasing
         | availability over the past several years). I can't stand any of
         | the carbonated ones I've tried in the US, but they are out
         | there.
        
           | pdntspa wrote:
           | Indeed, I like to buy mate in bulk at the latin-american
           | markets, you can usually get a pound of it for cheap
           | 
           | I've even had some progress making my own carbonated mate
           | drink, but it can be hard to get the flavor right
        
         | corndoge wrote:
         | The site I used to buy it from in quantity for US import is
         | defunct as of this year :(
         | 
         | Would love to hear from anyone who can get it in the US
        
           | pdntspa wrote:
           | I haven't checked the situation in a while but it appears
           | there are some online retailers that seem to be new venues
           | for distribution
           | 
           | https://club-mate.com/, click 'buy online'
        
       | crispyambulance wrote:
       | It seems like a sketchy idea to directly screw in the server to
       | the table legs. Much better to install rack sliders that are
       | supported from both front and back.
       | 
       | Just don't pull out the server if there's no one holding down the
       | table. Or better, keep servers where they belong: in a freaking
       | data center, NOT your house ! :-)
        
       | Steve0 wrote:
       | Just to add some more context, these were used back in the day at
       | chill areas of hacker conferences.
       | 
       | Back then wifi (if available) was not very reliable, and battery
       | tech less advanced. People carried network cables and extension
       | cords in their backpack.
        
       | ComputerGuru wrote:
       | I prefer the minimalism of a "vertical rack" which, for some
       | reason, I tend to never see. If you don't have more than 6U or so
       | of equipment, it's really the way to go because of its minimal
       | profile and amazing load-bearing ability: it is load-bearing
       | parallel to the direction of gravitational pull (vs regular rack
       | cabinets where the load is perpendicular to the posts), and then
       | that weight is all redirected towards the wall, so even the
       | heaviest servers or whatnot that would normally sag unless it
       | comes with rear-mountable rails for 4-post racks (which, for some
       | reason, very few do) work amazingly well. I've bought a few of
       | this StarTech one [0] over the years, but I've also seen people
       | weld together a couple of metal struts to accomplish the same.
       | 
       | [0]: https://amzn.to/3QTmVee
        
         | jjeaff wrote:
         | I didn't know this was an official thing. Seems like it would
         | work great in a lot of cases. But one of the main reasons I
         | like racks is the ability to pull a server out on tracks and
         | open it up to do maintenance, add hard drives, etc. I suppose
         | you still could do that on this vertical setup, but only with
         | one server with the top facing away from the wall.
        
         | tzartz wrote:
         | Switches and routers sure- I've used it for things like that
         | quite a bit- but I'd never put a server (even a 1U) in one.
         | Ease of getting in and swapping parts is a huge factor.
        
           | stacktrust wrote:
           | Is there a good source for short-depth sliding rack rails, or
           | is the DIY route (drawer slides) recommended?
        
             | tzartz wrote:
             | I've never had luck with rails that weren't shipped with
             | the device, but I know RackSolutions sells some universal
             | shallow rails. I've never used them but I've seen them
             | around.
        
         | shreddit wrote:
         | Isn't it, in theory, bad for airflow? At least active cooled
         | hardware would try to push hot air down against the hot air
         | trying to raise upwards?
        
         | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
         | Tracking-free link:
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001YHYVEY
        
       | bityard wrote:
       | Headline says 2020, but I'm fairly certain this has been a thing
       | for at least a decade or two.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I'd be a bit careful. Rack problems usually involve physical
       | damage to kit.
       | 
       | It would suck to have your $20,000 server go kablooey, because
       | you saved $120 on the rack.
        
         | GlacierFox wrote:
         | I think this is aimed at cheapo home-labbers like myself. I
         | doubt enterprises would consider putting a PS20,000 rendering
         | machine inside one of these.
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | Another option might be stereo rack mount equipment. Probably
           | cheaper than enterprise, and usually designed to be
           | attractive.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Stereo (like telecom) racks may not have sufficient
             | airflow, especially when "closed" - have to check.
             | 
             | The best racks are the surplus ones left laying around; if
             | you know someone who deals with buildings after companies
             | have moved out you'll have an endless supply of racks.
        
               | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
               | Good point. Make friends with people "in the trades."
        
       | jiggywiggy wrote:
       | The ads on this site are bonkers, is this the original article?
       | 
       | edit: appeareantly it's a legit site:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boing_Boing. Buzzword seems legit
       | compared to this.
        
         | lastofthemojito wrote:
         | Boing Boing used to be one of the coolest sites on the
         | internet! I think a lot of people still have it
         | bookmarked/RSSed/whatever, so they still keep publishing, but
         | it doesn't _feel_ like a work of love anymore (IMHO). It feels
         | more like someone said  "hey, we've got this site that gets a
         | bunch of traffic, it'd be a shame not to monetize it".
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | madduci wrote:
       | Watch out: newer Lack Tables from Ikea are less sturdy than their
       | older predecessors. IKEA has made them even lighter than before,
       | particularly the legs are almost cave inside, so beware that
       | server racks might be too heavy for it
        
         | serf wrote:
         | wow -- how can that even be?
         | 
         | I have a five or six year old lack I just disassembled due to
         | wobbly joints. The entire thing was made of cardboard + a few
         | small particle-wood reinforced areas near the joints, and a
         | hard thick veneer.
         | 
         | the veneer shell is doing 85% of the workload already. I can
         | hardly fathom how a weaker version would even work as a table.
        
           | LukeShu wrote:
           | At garage sales sometimes you find older Lacks that have
           | solid wood legs.
           | 
           | With the newer hollow-leg ones, I find that if you punch out
           | the bottom of the legs, you can snugly fit 1.75" square dowel
           | inside. (Though I've heard that the thickness of the material
           | varies by color; I can only confirm that 1.75" is the correct
           | size for black tables.)
        
           | tasuki wrote:
           | Would you say that it... lacks?
        
           | kn0where wrote:
           | I think the "newer" LACK is the one you disassembled. Time
           | flies, they cost-reduced it quite a number of years ago.
        
       | leg0m4n wrote:
       | It's also perfectly sized as housing for Prusa i3 3d printer, and
       | people have been doing it a lot: >
       | https://www.google.com/search?q=ikea+table+prusa+i3&client=f...
       | 
       | Truly magical piece of furniture.
        
       | justinlloyd wrote:
       | Old arcade cabinets with rackmount stiles screwed to the inside.
       | Just be aware that fibreboard doesn't compress like plywood or
       | real wood, so screws can tear out if not seated properly. You can
       | also put foam inside to abate the noise of rackmount fans.
       | 
       | I have since moved on to a custom built arcade cabinet for my
       | rackmount workstation and UPS.
        
       | jacooper wrote:
       | You know you are in HN when people use S3 to upload photos, and
       | not imgur.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | S3... Harder to use... Gotta pay egress....
         | 
         | It seems worse all round.
        
           | LaputanMachine wrote:
           | On top of that, Imgur automatically deletes EXIF data, which
           | would've prevented GGP from leaking their home address.
        
             | whalesalad wrote:
             | oh ya rookie move - stripped that and wiped my CF cache
        
             | graftak wrote:
             | This touches a semi-related nerve. When you share a photo
             | on iOS there's an option to remove exif data--or at least
             | the photo's location--but there's no way to always have it
             | removed by default. Really annoying and easy to forget.
             | /rant
        
               | jheuel wrote:
               | I think the default is to remove everything. I like to
               | archive nice photos and because of that always have to
               | ask family members to resend the image with metadata
               | enabled.
        
               | Buraksr wrote:
               | I think that you can at least choose for photos you take
               | to not have location data at all in camera settings.
               | 
               | I found out because the feature of mapping of where your
               | pictures where your pictures were taken did not work for
               | me, because I stopped the camera from having location
               | data.
        
             | westmeal wrote:
             | I am not a machine.
        
               | metadaemon wrote:
               | I'm not a cat.
        
             | trombone5000 wrote:
             | Who or what is GGP?
        
               | gertrunde wrote:
               | Grand grand parent I suspect.
        
           | skimo8 wrote:
           | Throw it behind cloudfront. You now get a terabyte of egress
           | free.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | We detached this subthread from
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32521279.
         | 
         | (Nothing wrong with a whimsically off-topic observation like
         | this, but boy did the subthread turn lame.)
        
         | Arubis wrote:
         | If you've already got a bucket ready to roll for this sort of
         | thing, S3 is cheap, straightforward, with a stable interface
         | and API, ownership over your assets, and a much lower chance
         | your content will end up placed on-page and strongly associated
         | with stuff that isn't yours.
        
           | Arubis wrote:
           | I truly don't understand downvotes here. Imgur's fine; S3's
           | fine; different people have different use cases. How is that
           | contentious?
        
             | inopinatus wrote:
             | Because some folks can't distinguish between contextual
             | value judgements based on their own preferences, and a
             | universal absolute.
        
             | uoaei wrote:
             | Downvotes are not for disagreement, they are for demoting
             | off-topic or otherwise unhelpful conversational threads.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | This is incorrect.
        
             | throwaway27727 wrote:
             | It becomes a discussion of engineering decisions
        
             | fuckHNtho wrote:
        
           | Filligree wrote:
           | Higher chance they'll get hotlinked somewhere and you'll get
           | a huge bill, however.
        
           | slg wrote:
           | Free beats cheap. Imgur and its comeptitors are also
           | straightforward. You don't really need an API for a single
           | upload. The ownership and control argument is great in
           | theory, but this is now an image on the internet. Anyone can
           | link to it which will cost you money. Anyone can download it
           | and upload to somewhere else. That means all appearances of
           | control are artificial. I don't see much benefit here.
        
             | inopinatus wrote:
             | > You don't really need an API for a single upload.
             | 
             | Au contraire, what I "didn't really need" was an entire
             | image processing and sharing platform run for someone
             | else's benefit. That image sharing platform is itself
             | primarily accessed via the use of a grossly overweight
             | multiple-API client called a "web browser".
             | 
             | No, what I want is a programmatic interface with multiple
             | language bindings and a command line tool, so I don't even
             | have to leave the terminal. When I share an image, my
             | preferred service for this is a bucket.
        
               | slg wrote:
               | >what I "didn't really need" was an entire image
               | processing and sharing platform run for someone else's
               | benefit.
               | 
               | Do you think AWS is run as a public service? If you
               | aren't hosting it on your own hardware, someone else is
               | benefiting.
               | 
               | >That image sharing platform is itself only accessible
               | via the use of a grossly overweight multiple-API client
               | called a "web browser".
               | 
               | The web browser that you are using to post this comment?
               | 
               | It takes two clicks of the mouse to upload something to
               | Imgur. Maybe you have built an S3 workflow that is nearly
               | as seamless, but it would be tough to beat Imgur for
               | simplicity.
               | 
               | I got no problem if anyone prefers to upload images like
               | this. People have their own preferences and I can't argue
               | with "I prefer to stay in the terminal". However "I like
               | this better" is a different statement than "this is
               | better" and the comment I replied to was closer to the
               | latter.
        
               | inopinatus wrote:
               | hard to imagine someone stooping to this level of
               | antagonistic misrepresentation because they disagreed
               | with someone else's preference for image hosting, but
               | there it is.
               | 
               | "two clicks of a mouse" - that's a negative, not a
               | positive, attribute. I'd rather not use a mouse, when
               | possible. And yes, my S3 "workflow" is a very short shell
               | script.
               | 
               | are you actually interested in which user agent I use to
               | access HN, or was that just a snide assumption? I mean,
               | sure, sometimes it is, but it's ableist arrogance to
               | assume everyone's using a fat graphical client. Folks
               | really don't always use a web browser, or touch a mouse,
               | to interact with websites.
        
               | dang wrote:
               | Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's
               | not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is
               | for.
               | 
               | Please especially avoid tit-for-tat spats, which are
               | especially boring and tedious.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
               | slg wrote:
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | How about you read again what the GP wrote and then
               | review your comment?
        
               | slg wrote:
               | I don't know, it just seems wild to me that I am the one
               | receiving accusations of being antagonistic when other
               | people are writing comments like this. You could try
               | answering my question rather than giving this opaque
               | answer that says nothing. I legitimately don't know what
               | upset that person. Was it that I assumed they browse the
               | internet the same way as 99.9...% of people?
        
               | dang wrote:
               | Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's
               | not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is
               | for.
               | 
               | Please especially avoid tit-for-tat spats, which are
               | especially boring and tedious.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
               | slg wrote:
               | I'm not trying to be a jerk and challenge your authority,
               | just trying to get better because I legitimately don't
               | know where I crossed the line. Can you be more specific
               | about what I did wrong here? Because comparing the
               | advantages and disadvantages of different approaches to
               | image hosting seems perfectly on theme for HN.
        
             | skimo8 wrote:
             | Cloudfront makes S3 effectively free for hobby
             | applications. That's what I use for my self hosted version
             | of Imgur.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | ajb wrote:
       | Racks are made of metal, not least because the server is only
       | supported at one end (its a cantilever) which applies a lot of
       | force to the support - there is a lot of leverage.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | The problem: extreme noise.
        
       | michaelhoffman wrote:
       | Given how many Lack tables I've seen fall apart without any sort
       | of load, I would be very reluctant to try this, no matter how
       | many people report it works for them. It's IKEA's cheapest table
       | for a reason.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | In my experience, even cheap IKEA stuff is pretty solid and
         | well worth the cost as long as you treat it with care. Some
         | stuff is garbage even if you're careful but I've never
         | personally seen something from IKEA that isn't great if handled
         | gently.
        
           | brewdad wrote:
           | In my experience, you get one move from IKEA furniture. By
           | the time you've relocated it twice, whether across the room
           | or across the country, it will become unstable and likely to
           | fail.
           | 
           | If you are exceptionally careful and always have help moving
           | anything of size, you may do better.
        
             | kennend3 wrote:
             | My dad was a cabinit maker so i have experienced "proper"
             | cabinets as well as Ikea stuff.
             | 
             | You called it. Ikea furniture never seems to support
             | disassembly / reassembly.
             | 
             | I've thrown out several sets of Ikea dressers and such
             | which lasted ~5 years while the stuff my dad built is still
             | in perfect working condition 22 years later.
             | 
             | As far as the Ikea rack idea is concerned, holding any sort
             | of weight has always been the major failure with Ikea
             | furniture. They sell bookshelves which cant hold books...
             | Dressers with 1/4 "cardboard" bottoms which cant support
             | the weight of clothing.
             | 
             | you get what you pay for.
        
             | iso1631 wrote:
             | My oldest Ikea unit is from 2007, it's moved 5 times since
             | then, as solid now as the day I bought it, although that
             | one is small enough to not have to dismantle.
             | 
             | I've got an ikea bed dismantled, moved, rebuilt 3 times no
             | problem, and a bookcase with the same dismantle/rebuild
             | process 4 times. My office desk is also on 4 moves over 10
             | years.
        
             | detaro wrote:
             | you can't really generalize that IMHO, they make both
             | things that are easily damaged and stuff that can easily
             | survive many moves.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | The IVAR system is, in my book, absolute complete junk. I
           | couldn't get it to even attempt to work correctly, it wobbled
           | when it wasn't collapsing, and to make insult even worse, it
           | was _more expensive_ than actual industrial wire shelving.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | Did you forget to add cross-braces [0]? Ivar has always
             | been rock-solid for me.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/observatoer-cross-brace-
             | galvani...
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Even with cross bracing it had too much wobble, which
               | would pull the short pins out of the cross board, and if
               | you bumped a shelf it would hop out and then fall.
        
           | jpalomaki wrote:
           | On trick is to add some glue when you are assembling the
           | furniture.
        
             | serf wrote:
             | the lack I used for my prusa was , over time, covered in
             | printed gusset features and additional L-brackets to get
             | rid of sway and movement within the table itself.
             | 
             | it looked god-awful but it was sturdy for years and years
             | of production-quantity printing. It was only disassembled
             | when the print lab got rebuilt.
             | 
             | so, in other words, I support your idea of modifying the
             | construction of the lack wholeheartedly. The joint lines
             | are one of the only 'strong-ish' elements on the entire
             | table, and I think they'd take glue nicely.
        
         | BeefWellington wrote:
         | I currently have two stacked Lacks acting as a cheap homemade
         | server rack. I have 2x 4U ontop the bottom table (not floating
         | as they're doing in the article), with an older colour laser
         | printer and 21" monitor, KVM, etc. on the top table. Underneath
         | I have 2x1500VA UPSes.
         | 
         | It's been that way for years and I've moved it a few times. I
         | think if you've seen them fall apart without any load, they're
         | either the much newer ones that have been completely hollowed
         | out, or they've been used in a rougher setting than "servers
         | sitting statically on them for years."
         | 
         | I know quite a few home lab users who swear by them. One person
         | I know even has a full triple stack (which seems unsafe to me
         | personally) with his networking gear on top of the servers.
        
         | alx__ wrote:
         | They don't hold up well to repeated side impacts or horizontal
         | shearing. So kids jumping on it, shin kicks, or moving
         | locations. They do well with the vertical forces if they're
         | rarely moved.
        
         | sophacles wrote:
         | Why? Do the legs shatter? That would be the only reason that
         | your concern makes sense - adding 1 or more rigid metal bodies
         | that connect to each leg seems like it would stabilize the
         | structure.
        
           | ErneX wrote:
           | Some years ago the legs used to be fully solid, now most of
           | the legs are empty. So what you can do is get some wood
           | sticks cut to the same size of the inside of the legs.
        
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