[HN Gopher] It's easier to manage four people than one
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       It's easier to manage four people than one
        
       Author : staccatomeasure
       Score  : 187 points
       Date   : 2022-08-18 10:32 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (staysaasy.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (staysaasy.com)
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | If your whole job is to manage one person, your real job title is
       | probably 'personal assistant'. Of course, this inverts the power
       | structure in hierarchical organizations, and it probably points
       | to some kind of problematic internal organizational issue with
       | the outfit.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | A post which assumes that organizations must be run
       | hierarchically. Why does a team of 2 people need to have one
       | command the other?
        
       | dymk wrote:
       | I can take care of ten houseplants easily. I immediately
       | overwater and kill a lone houseplant.
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | Get an easier houseplant to take care of.
         | 
         | I have a peace lily and despite my best efforts to kill it
         | through neglect, it is still here almost 4 years later, kicking
         | and thriving.
         | 
         | It survived being not watered for over a month, overwatered,
         | cut in half [1] and being left outside in near-freezing
         | temperatures accidentally for a week or so.
         | 
         | 1. Cutting it half is actually the preferred propagation
         | method, so it wasn't an intentional way to harm the plant.
        
           | dymk wrote:
           | The point is not that houseplants are hard to take care of.
           | It's that neglecting them a little bit out of neccessity is
           | actually good for them.
        
             | antisthenes wrote:
             | That sounds like a manager problem and not the houseplant
             | problem.
        
               | dymk wrote:
               | Yes.
        
             | wszfahwbwbaha wrote:
             | You should say your point instead of tiptoeing around it
        
               | dymk wrote:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | It's a very noisy tiptoe to mirror the headline of the OP
               | almost exactly.
        
           | LesZedCB wrote:
           | if they can easily care for 10, why would you assume they
           | need easier plants?
           | 
           | their point was they love them to death. in my house, i
           | prefer to keep fish because they do well with lots of
           | attention. i don't keep the plants because i would over-water
           | (over-love) and then kill them :( this is all half-joke,
           | half-serious.
        
       | dirtybirdnj wrote:
       | >Note: mangers should be very invested in their report's success.
       | 
       | I have never had this experience in my entire professional
       | career.
       | 
       | How does one arrive at such a privileged and pampered existence?
       | Like... they treat you with dignity and respect? What sort of war
       | crimes do I need to commit to get this kind of job?
        
         | johnfn wrote:
         | I mean... managers _want_ their ICs to do well and get
         | promoted. It makes them look good, because they 're growing
         | their own team. Most healthier organizations work this way?
        
       | siva7 wrote:
       | I've managed a team with only 2 reports. Wouldn't recommend it
       | unless you're the founder/owner. In my experience the minimum
       | size for managing a team should be 3 direct reports and not more
       | than 9.
        
         | nfhshy68 wrote:
         | Been on a team of 10. Trainwreck.
        
           | sys_64738 wrote:
           | When you have a team that size you're looking for a couple of
           | senior developers to act as mentors for the others. Often
           | with the right people these relationships naturally develop
           | but sometimes not.
        
           | greedo wrote:
           | Ha. I'm on a team of 23. And our manager expects us to all
           | have roughly identical skills so we're interchangeable.
           | Retirement can't come soon enough.
        
       | dangus wrote:
       | This should also mention as a generality that managers should get
       | training and support from the organization.
       | 
       | This, in my experience, almost never happens. Companies just
       | assume you know how to be a good manager. They shouldn't make
       | that assumption even for experienced hires, especially if they're
       | looking to establish a specific culture.
        
         | spaetzleesser wrote:
         | Usually managers get trained in the bureaucratic processes of
         | management but yes, there is usually no training in how to
         | actually manage and often no mentoring either.
        
         | thenoblesquid wrote:
         | Even if they don't assume the manager is a good one, I think
         | it's common to have cultures where first time managers are
         | expected to just figure it out for themselves, because their
         | manager had to do the same thing.
        
       | kriro wrote:
       | I think the key question here is...why manage one person. A one
       | to one ratio of managers to "workers" seems completely rediculous
       | to me. If you insist on one to one then assign a mentor, not a
       | manager, at least if it's a technical domain and there's an
       | option to assign someone that is not a pure manager.
       | 
       | If you're ever assigned to manage a single person, it's better to
       | go big picture and wonder if this is a reasonable way to run a
       | company (imo). If a single person is working on a project that
       | requires oversight that person should be senior enough to "manage
       | themselves". If they are too junior, the team should be bigger
       | (because it's important enough to require oversight). If it's
       | oversight due to legal issues that's fine but then the management
       | can be hands of and should basically spot check that everything
       | is following said legal requirements.
       | 
       | At least that's my humble opinion. I treat one on one manager to
       | technical role relations as an organizational smell.
        
         | PeterisP wrote:
         | Small companies often have situations where a clearly distinct
         | function/department goes from one person to two; where someone
         | who wasn't really an individual contributor but running a
         | separate thing alone now is managing a 'team of two' including
         | themselves.
        
         | twunde wrote:
         | So this is primarily a problem with small companies, although
         | you'll sometimes see it on teams when several people leave
         | around the same time. The typical example is a non-VC backed
         | small business, where a senior individual is hiring a junior
         | person because that's all there's budget for at the moment.
         | 
         | But yes, its absolutely an anti-pattern, because as you've
         | pointed out junior hires do need more oversight and help. I've
         | rarely seen the situation work out.
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | I was a manager of one, and it's not even about junior or
         | senior. My first report left (not because of me!), and my new
         | report was much more senior, but I had a lot more managerial
         | work to do because they didn't have the company knowledge and
         | contacts to self-manage.
         | 
         | Thankfully, I was relieved of managerial duties shortly there
         | after. I had only agreed to manage in the first place because
         | we were a team of 12 with one manager, and that was too many
         | reports, so half the team got to manage the other half, and my
         | initial report was self-sufficient (well, we kind of all were),
         | add some new hires and report moves and manager:report numbers
         | got better.
        
       | Cd00d wrote:
       | I was once put in the position of co-managing a single report.
       | Two managers, one of them a first time manager, and a senior
       | report - it was one of the hardest management experiences I've
       | had. I was far easier to manage two parallel teams of 5 than to
       | manage half of one person.
        
       | imwillofficial wrote:
       | As somebody soon to be leading a small team, these were wonderful
       | points beyond just the single report pitfall
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | However... as someone who is managing one person on a domain
         | that I am not an expert in... It would be nice to have
         | workarounds and not just point out "lol no, don't do this!".
         | 
         | Sometimes you don't have a choice.
        
       | Timpy wrote:
       | I was once the sole report of a "senior developer", and the
       | article nails every pain point that caused me to leave. His code
       | had tons and tons of serious problems. The database was a mess;
       | he insisted on storing multiple data points in a single column,
       | querying the entire table, then regexing out the information he
       | wanted in php foreach loops. This was because the database was so
       | bad you couldn't join more than two tables without crashing it.
       | He vetoed everything I tried to do to improve the codebase,
       | really normal best practices. I read books and books and tried
       | coming to him with sources on why we ought to normalize our data,
       | or use prepared statements instead of the unreliable homemade
       | sanitizer function he brewed up. He had been insisting for years
       | that long load times were unavoidable. I was so frustrated with
       | the situation that I didn't bother to help him save face when I
       | fixed everything with a couple of indexes.
       | 
       | I spoke my grievances to the owner who listened with open ears,
       | but he told me directly that it was hard for him to know what to
       | do because it was outside his field of specialty and the senior
       | dev had more experience and a long tenure at the company. I
       | appreciated his honesty, and started job hunting immediately. I
       | only worked under that senior dev for 7 months.
        
         | pc86 wrote:
         | > _he insisted on storing multiple data points in a single
         | column, querying the entire table, then regexing out the
         | information he wanted in php foreach loops._
         | 
         | This is not a senior developer, this is a [bad] intern who has
         | two months of experience 60 times. Although now I see you have
         | senior dev in quotes and maybe that's why!
        
         | dvtrn wrote:
         | _he told me directly that it was hard for him to know what to
         | do because it was outside his field of specialty and the senior
         | dev had more experience and a long tenure at the company._
         | 
         | This is what lead me to leave what was otherwise one of the
         | most fulfilling jobs I'd ever had working as an engineer for a
         | B Corp that provided tech consulting exclusively to non-profits
         | humanitarian organizations.
         | 
         | Loved the mission, appreciated the leadership team, but
         | absolutely loathed the this one developer on my team. So did
         | the rest of the team.
         | 
         | Guy went through a divorce and became the worst kind of person
         | imaginable. The engineering director suddenly retired due to a
         | life-threatening medical condition, and this fella made it his
         | mission to usurp as much power as he could. Pretty soon people
         | started leaving the company because of the guy, leaving me and
         | the other juniors as the only people behind.
         | 
         | Guess who was made the new engineering director. His code was
         | fine and performant but he was an absolutely miserable, awful,
         | truly rage-filled person but those open ears when anyone tried
         | reporting up just happened to be attached to the same body that
         | would shrug and point to his seniority and tenure as a means to
         | not do anything about it.
         | 
         | He's still there. I can see his picture on the company about
         | page to this day. Everyone else is smiling jovially and he's
         | literally, actually, I'm not kidding you scowling at the
         | camera.
         | 
         | And I'm still remiss because aside from that and that alone, I
         | really enjoyed what I was doing there.
        
           | feoren wrote:
           | I cannot imagine what causes company leadership to see a
           | whole team fall apart in short order, with _everyone_ saying
           | it 's the fault of this one person, and the leadership
           | shrugging and going "no way to know!". It's the absolute
           | height of lazy, awful leadership.
        
         | snapetom wrote:
         | I was a very junior dev when I worked for a huge health
         | insurance company, I was placed under a senior dev to learn JSP
         | and Java Servlets using an internal app. I quickly ran through
         | a book on JSP to prepare for the project.
         | 
         | When I get there, the guy had already written one page of the
         | app, and he did it by doing System.out.println in the servlet
         | for ALL THE HTML. In other words, he didn't use JSP templates
         | at all.
         | 
         | System.out.println("<html>"); System.out.println("<head>");
         | System.out.println("<title>This janky ass code</title>");
         | 
         | I looked at that abomination and said, "This isn't JSP at
         | all...." He rambled on about sometimes in a project, we just
         | need to get things done with the tools we knew, etc. etc.
         | 
         | I went to our boss and told him I wasn't learning JSP, which
         | was the mandate of the company back then. He just kind of
         | smirked and said, "Yeah, that sounds like Ken. He knows
         | programming, though, blah blah blah."
         | 
         | 2nd worse boss I ever had, the dev was a lunatic, and that
         | company was a joke.
        
           | mstipetic wrote:
           | Are you serious? You're not exaggerating?
        
             | snapetom wrote:
             | As a heart attack.
             | 
             | Guy was a trip. So many stories about that guy, many of
             | them very disturbing. Even worst was the manager that let
             | him get away with that shit. These were the days when
             | technical managers weren't a thing. He had an accounting
             | degree and he managed engineers. I, a junior dev, spent
             | about 40% of my time explaining basic things to the guy.
             | 
             | Joke of a company.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | were they large ? I'm curious about the amount of money
               | wasted through them :)
        
           | mateo411 wrote:
           | Somebody should tell this dev about StringBuilder. Think of
           | the productivity and servlet performance improvement!
        
           | justforaskin wrote:
           | A friend of mine lost his mind on a JSP that was doing too
           | much. In protest he printed it out to paper multiple cubicles
           | with the content.
        
         | cpursley wrote:
         | Yikes. Sounds like you at least leaned a whole lot!
        
       | spaetzleesser wrote:
       | If you manage one person you get all the overhead of managing
       | people but only the productivity of one person. Same for
       | offshoring. My company has people in India so we often get one or
       | two persons added to the team. This produces enormous overhead
       | due difficulty of communication over a 12h time difference but we
       | still get omit the work of two people. It would be way more
       | efficient to have ten people there so the overhead is worth it.
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | >This produces enormous overhead due difficulty of
         | communication over a 12h time difference
         | 
         | I refuse to do it again / anymore.
         | 
         | I've been asking for contractor's actual working hours before
         | assuming a 9-5 time schedule in their timezone, then looking at
         | actual working hours of overlap. But no matter what, I
         | absolutely require 3-4 hours of overlap a day. I'm DONE with
         | the one round-trip communication per day routine.
        
           | pojzon wrote:
           | Im currently in such situation.
           | 
           | Our team in central EU and second team in US. 8h difference.
           | We learn about everything last and have nothing to say. One
           | sync on manager level per day. Cant get anything done well.
           | 
           | Already filled papers to quit.
        
             | needs wrote:
             | On the other hand in my current company we have people from
             | all over the world: US, EU, Africa, Asia and Australia.
             | 
             | Everything is asynchronous, flat hierarchy, only seniors
             | hired as freelancers though, so quite autonomous people.
             | Two dev syncs per week, fine if you skip one for whatever
             | reason. One single manager for 10 people. It works quite
             | well.
             | 
             | For me this is remote working done mostly well.
        
       | etempleton wrote:
       | Managing one person becomes hard because neither manager nor
       | subordinate have a comparison point. Particularly because in
       | these scenarios the subordinate is new to the working world and
       | the manager is new to managing. They are both the best and worst
       | employee/ mangager either have ever had and they have no context
       | to know which is true.
       | 
       | The truth becomes more clear in later in both individuals
       | professional journey. I can look back early in my career and
       | realize I had a terrible 1:1 manager, but thought it was me. I
       | can also look back on a time I managed an employee 1:1 and
       | recognize where I could have been better.
        
       | higeorge13 wrote:
       | I don't get all the negative comments about 2 person teams. It
       | happens in small companies and startups. You bring a domain
       | expert and you also hire a junior or less senior person. And
       | sometimes you don't even need to hire more, the team can be super
       | productive or the projects are as many as required for a team of
       | 2.
       | 
       | Personal anecdote: I have done it twice as a manager and had
       | great experience and collaboration both of the times (at least
       | this is my take in both of them). The key is to not see yourself
       | as a manager but more like a mentor and equal contributor to the
       | projects. It also requires great communication skills and
       | openness, as well as taking as many opportunities for new
       | projects and cross team collaborations as possible, in order to
       | not alienate the team as well as make the direct report feel that
       | he can grow with you. Of course it happened that no bad
       | experiences or bad hires happened in both my cases, but tbh i
       | suspect the consequences would be small as small team usually
       | means small projects. I have seen worse cases from bad hires, or
       | bad collaborators in larger teams and way larger projects, which
       | can also deteriorate the morale in more people and teams.
        
         | roflyear wrote:
         | Yes. I am actually a proponent of the sith kind of management
         | style. You work with your boss. You work with your report. He
         | works with his report.
         | 
         | I own a 4 person company. That is how we work. My clients talk
         | to me (and sometimes my report -we don't isolate) I talk to my
         | report about internal stuff and he decides if his report should
         | be involved. Highly productive.
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | Additional idea: there is a different relationship between worker
       | and manager, and between (manager) and (manager of managers). If
       | upper level manager has a worker as a report, I doubt he will be
       | able to handle this in the same fashion as mid level manager.
        
       | lifeisstillgood wrote:
       | What does "managing" mean ?
       | 
       | I am not trying to be argumentative. But there are a lot of
       | arguments in this thread basically going straight past each other
       | 
       | My two cents are
       | 
       | - user proxy (product manager)
       | 
       | - standards enforcer (linter)
       | 
       | - resource gatherer (arguing for resources from other managers)
       | 
       | - political actor / representative
       | 
       | - mentor / coach
       | 
       | Now, most of not all of these are _also_ things everyone says one
       | should do for one 's own career.
       | 
       | I am just wondering, what do most managers bring to the table
       | other than neat hierarchy drawings? Is it basically a nice coach
       | like role?
       | 
       | How much power should a coach have?
        
       | NAHWheatCracker wrote:
       | My manager has ~14 reports. We're all on different projects every
       | quarter and my manager knows nearly nothing about any individual
       | project.
       | 
       | I see arguments for essentially the same problems from the
       | article:
       | 
       | - Managers aren't reliant on the feedback or success of
       | individual reports. >80% of people will always give positive
       | feedback. - Managers don't give feedback or help resolve
       | problems. It's effort on their part with no upside. - We're all
       | still isolated because there is no consistent team. - No one has
       | context. Managers can't understand 10+ projects.
        
         | scarface74 wrote:
         | I work in the cloud consulting department at BigTech. We have
         | the same structure. But we don't have that problem. It's up to
         | us to be able to describe a project, create documentation and
         | artifacts, seek customer feedback, etc and prepare a "promo
         | document". I approach each 1 on 1 like a miniature interview
         | where I describe my projects in STAR format.
         | 
         | I solve problems by working with my project managers. But
         | mostly, I can deal with the customer myself when it comes to
         | tactical issues.
        
         | elliottcarlson wrote:
         | There is a sweet spot of amount of reports, where a manager is
         | able to handle the projects and the performance of the
         | individuals -- once you hit the 8 people mark, you should be
         | looking in to splitting the team up - the manager could
         | delegate and mentor a jr manager to take on a part of the team,
         | etc. But 14 is too much.
        
       | hackitup7 wrote:
       | Co-author of OP here, cool to see this post come up again.
       | 
       | An even more challenging situation that I've seen since is the
       | 1-1-1 management system (manager manages 1 person, who in turn
       | manages another). When that arises, you really need to fix it as
       | soon as possible, either by rearranging, or hiring people to
       | spread the number of reports.
        
         | cardanome wrote:
         | I am currently the last leaf of an 1-1-1-1 management system,
         | it is absolutely insane.
         | 
         | I just don't get the why. I guess it is some career driven
         | insanity, everyone wants to be a manager.
        
           | mateo411 wrote:
           | Try to have a good attitude about it. You are the base case
           | in an inductive proof!
        
           | hackitup7 wrote:
           | Yeah that's brutal. The legendary Human Centipede Org Chart.
           | Good luck..
        
           | justinlloyd wrote:
           | A couple of jobs back I was in a 2-1-19 with me in the
           | middle, where in a very short timeframe it became a 5-1-1,
           | with still me in the middle. It was Hell on Earth and I
           | couldn't bail out fast enough.
           | 
           | Short story: RTO in pandemic due to executive fiat, team
           | revolts, HR fires everyone, I quit two weeks later.
        
         | forbiddenvoid wrote:
         | And this pattern gets compounded across organizations. CEO has
         | many reports, those reports have 1-2, who all have 1 report
         | down a chain.
         | 
         | Nothing gets done, everyone gets blamed.
        
           | rdtwo wrote:
           | That's the worst you get to give status updates to 3-layers
           | of manager stating from the most senior to most junior.
        
         | endlessvoid94 wrote:
         | Just wanted to say that the stay saasy blog is terrific. It
         | makes me really wonder who you folks are. 90% of organizations
         | just suck at everything you write about, so you must have some
         | great experience.
         | 
         | Anyway, thanks for all the great content.
        
           | asplake wrote:
           | On that recommendation, subscribed!
        
           | hackitup7 wrote:
           | I know this might sound crazy but we're actually ex-Theranos.
           | The miniseries was all lies.
           | 
           | (thankfully joking)
           | 
           | Thanks for reading! We've definitely made our share of
           | mistakes too, but Stay SaaSy has been a helpful way to
           | organize the thousands of tips that we've learned across many
           | stages of growth. Really glad that you've found it helpful!
        
         | roflyear wrote:
         | I disagree. I think the 1-1-1-1 can work very well.
        
       | eweise wrote:
       | I was given a single report once. Then a couple months later I
       | was told to fire him. Apparently that's the reason I was given
       | the report. Mgmt sucks.
        
       | NikolaNovak wrote:
       | Agreed with article; the 4th point around context is almost
       | universally true - to put it another way, you cannot make a bell
       | curve with a single data point. It becomes difficult to
       | accurately evaluate how well a single person is doing. Yes, there
       | are some absolutes, but underneath most seeming absolutes ("this
       | is how long it should take to accomplish activity X", "this is
       | the minimum acceptable quality for product Y"), lies experience
       | and statistics. ~four people is a good starting size as you can
       | more accurately plot how well people are doing, _and_ how well
       | you are doing as a manager.
        
         | victor9000 wrote:
         | This is why I'm reluctant to consider Founding Engineer roles.
         | It doesn't matter how well you do, how much benefit you bring
         | to the team, or how much value you create for the company. Most
         | founders are first-time managers and will have absolutely no
         | context for how to measure your productivity.
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | > the 4th point around context is almost universally true - to
         | put it another way, you cannot make a bell curve with a single
         | data point. It becomes difficult to accurately evaluate how
         | well a single person is doing.
         | 
         | I've always been confused about the terrible reputation of
         | "stack ranking" for roughly this reason. What other kind of
         | ranking is there?
         | 
         | You can rate people according to metrics that have been
         | established for the task they're doing, but the nature of
         | software is that when a task has been done once it doesn't need
         | to be done again.
        
           | NikolaNovak wrote:
           | I think we are in agreement, but if we try to play devil's
           | advocate to ourselves :)
           | 
           | There are tasks you can conceivably determine some
           | thresholds:
           | 
           | You pick up 10 bushels of apples a day, you "meet
           | expectations". You pick up 15, you "Exceed expectations". You
           | pick up 5, you "need to improve".
           | 
           | But again, I will make an argument that these are curved as
           | well, it's just that curving was done previously and on large
           | data sets.
           | 
           | You can establish seemingly absolute criteria in software -
           | from seemingly hard numbers (line of code, programs deployed,
           | tickets closed, IRs in prod after deployment, etc) to softer
           | numbers (are your comments good, is your code maintainable,
           | etc). But again... how do you come up with these numbers?
           | Either you make them up, in which case they'll have to be
           | adjusted based on reality of your actual developers, or
           | they're based on previous experience, in which case it's the
           | reality and curve of previous developers.
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | > You pick up 10 bushels of apples a day, you "meet
             | expectations". You pick up 15, you "Exceed expectations".
             | You pick up 5, you "need to improve".
             | 
             | > But again, I will make an argument that these are curved
             | as well, it's just that curving was done previously and on
             | large data sets.
             | 
             | Yes, that's what I was saying. But that doesn't work in
             | software because the job cannot be standardized (or rather,
             | to the extent that the job _can_ be standardized, it can
             | also be immediately automated and therefore ceases
             | requiring any employees).
        
           | greedo wrote:
           | Stack ranking sucks because it's extremely difficult to
           | evaluate performance in IT other than broad company wide
           | goals. Determining which developer had the greatest impact is
           | a fools game. Determining which sysadmin was responsible for
           | five 9s of uptime, on and on. Too many people are good at
           | gaming any metrics you set up.
           | 
           | So what happens is the manager throws up his hands and
           | evaluates you based on intangibles; how nice you are to him.
           | How many people complain/praise you. How much friction people
           | assign to working with you. All vague and all completely
           | orthogonal to your true performance and value to an
           | organization.
           | 
           | As contributors figure this out (usually around year 5 or
           | earlier unless they're socially clueless), they learn how to
           | game this as well. "Managing up." Promoting themselves
           | whenever possible, deflecting blame, avoiding risky projects
           | that could tarnish a reputation, and for those with a
           | Machiavellian mindset, sabotage coworkers.
           | 
           | And while some managers might be able to detect this
           | behavior, most in my experience don't. Most enjoy the
           | flattery, and since they're usually not technical, or not
           | versed in current technology, defer to whomever sounds the
           | most authoritative.
        
           | Dudeman112 wrote:
           | > has been done once it doesn't need to be done again.
           | 
           |  _incoherent angry mumbling_
        
       | NovemberWhiskey wrote:
       | Why wouldn't you simply have the singleton report roll-up to the
       | next level? Something has to be incredibly wrong with the
       | organization for this kind of stuff to happen, surely?
        
         | s1k3 wrote:
         | Can happen in flux. But also the higher up may not have the
         | expertise to manage the person from a day to day. It probably
         | matters more for mid level employees where there is still hand
         | holding but also some depth of expertise.
        
         | hackitup7 wrote:
         | The most common situation is that you have a new manager who's
         | building their team. This is easily fixed (keep hiring).
         | 
         | Next most common situation is that someone wants to be a
         | manager, and the company wants to support that purely for
         | career or employee happiness reasons. This is where you're more
         | likely to end up in an awkward situation.
        
       | antipaul wrote:
       | Does it make sense to ever have less than 3 reports?
        
         | siva7 wrote:
         | If one goes on vacation or leaves the company, your team falls
         | easily apart. That's why a team of less than 3 reports +
         | manager is an anti-pattern.
        
       | fatjokes wrote:
       | Is it really not uncommon for a manager (even a new one) to
       | manage a singleton? That has always felt like an antipattern to
       | me. On my team I would not mint a new manager unless they had at
       | least 2-3 reports.
        
         | dogleash wrote:
         | It's not uncommon, weird, or counterproductive when there is a
         | team of two and one is the other's direct report. The problems
         | arise when the manager treats the situation with more hierarchy
         | than the situation warrants.
         | 
         | Think about it like if a small company's accounting department
         | grows to need two people. One position being above the other in
         | the org chart is fine, but don't expect much stratification in
         | the roles. They're basically splitting the work but one person
         | is also representing/responsible for the department to the rest
         | of the company.
         | 
         | Accounting is an easy example, because it's pretty clearly an
         | isolated discipline. It's also possible that there is
         | specialization that needs a 1-over-1 managerial relationship
         | elsewhere in org chart. But it runs more risk of being a
         | ladder-climber taking their first step and cocking it up by
         | acting like there is a non-trivial amount of stratification
         | between them and their report.
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | Overlooked: managing 4 people confers more authority and
       | subordinates are more likely to be cooperative.
        
         | riversflow wrote:
         | Bingo. Not trying to bring gender into this, but I've
         | specifically seen father-son teams work really well on many
         | occasions.
        
       | eric4smith wrote:
       | One reason is that it's a part time job to manage one and a full
       | time job to manage 4.
       | 
       | Generally people put a part time job on the back burner and focus
       | on the main full time job.
       | 
       | Just speaking from experience.
        
         | spaetzleesser wrote:
         | That's true. That's why is m against people with a 30%
         | allocation on my team. Projekt Managers think you can just
         | split a person's work into parts but when somebody is allocated
         | at 30% tk you, you actually get way less performance.
        
           | johnchristopher wrote:
           | What about 50/50 in non overlapping skills/experience, eg:
           | windows sysadmin and mobile app dev ?
        
             | ilc wrote:
             | 50/50 is a lie.
             | 
             | For the person working it, both sides often expect priority
             | or "more" than 50%.
             | 
             | When someone wants to 50/50 me, I tell them, 51/49 is fine.
             | But there must be a clear priority when there's a conflict.
             | 
             | Strangely, when I do this, the urge to 50/50 me usually
             | goes away. I have nothing against working 2-4 projects. But
             | there must be clear priorities, or I must be able to set
             | them.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | spaetzleesser wrote:
               | My math is usually that splitting somebody into
               | percentage allocations reduces their total productivity.
               | So 50% + 50% results in 50% total productivity.
               | 30+30+30=30.
               | 
               | The only time this can work if the person knows their
               | work really well and can do it in their sleep. Otherwise
               | the context switches are way too much for most people.
        
         | idiocrat wrote:
         | There could be a point of an economy of scale, which is not
         | explicitly mentioned in the article.
         | 
         | While I can "come by" managing just one person (cutting the
         | managerial corners), for 4 persons I need to organize myself
         | more efficient.
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | > Generally people put a part time job on the back burner and
         | focus on the main full time job.
         | 
         | And if "people" was only the manager in question that would be
         | somewhat okay, but usually it's the reporting chain above of
         | that person that thinks the same too.
         | 
         | I made the mistake of accepting to manage an intern (not
         | mentor, manage) once, and I was expected to do 100% of my
         | normal job on top of managing him. It takes an unbelievable
         | amount of time.
        
       | FrankWilhoit wrote:
       | The ease or otherwise of management depends entirely upon the
       | local notion of what "management" is. This varies widely, but
       | usually consists largely of somebody's hobbyhorses, unrelated to
       | pragmatic considerations.
        
         | liberalism wrote:
         | There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not
         | bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not
         | protect...
        
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