[HN Gopher] NMN: A Stable, Reliable NAD+Activator and Anti-Aging...
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NMN: A Stable, Reliable NAD+Activator and Anti-Aging Molecule
(2020)
Author : simonebrunozzi
Score : 52 points
Date : 2022-08-17 15:30 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| evo_9 wrote:
| Been taking this for nearly 5 years. Shits the real deal. No
| pretending when you're competing still against 20-something that
| barely washed out of their pro nhl career... but yeah not like
| being 55 and playing high level hockey is any sort of 'proof'
| around here (or my multiple sets of 20-25 pull-ups I do regularly
| and I could barely do 10 when I was 30).
| throwaway_4ever wrote:
| Before taking this, please read
| https://www.foundmyfitness.com/topics/nicotinamide-mononucle...
| and the possible link between NMN and increased cancer
| prevalence. I believe the research is still too early and there
| is a risk with this compound.
| evo_9 wrote:
| Look up Dr. Standfield on YouTube he has a great health
| channel on all this stuff and digs into everything including
| NMN/nr and all the backing metadata / Cochrane research
| papers...
| ShivShankaran wrote:
| Brad had a fallout with Sinclair and Sinclair blocked him
| on twitter for asking a question about NMN and it's risks.
|
| Since that Brad has stopped taking NMN and also requests
| people not to.
| evo_9 wrote:
| That's not 100% true, he recommends NR because there are
| human trials and NMN is still being studded. Also he
| won't be adding either until he's around 45-50 (he's only
| in his 30s)
|
| I had a one-on-one phone call with him Sunday (Dr.
| Standfield) and we discussed my experience with NMN vs NR
| and which was ideal for my situation. Long / short his
| review of my stack was summed up as 'you are doing
| everything right stick with NMN.' The only change was to
| switch from l-serine to glycine.
|
| It is true Sinclair blocked him after he asked for
| clarion some of his research (so rude!).
| throwaway_4ever wrote:
| This Dr. Stanfield? /s
|
| "Molecules I Used To Take But Have Now Stopped
|
| NMN:
|
| I focus on stopping my NAD from declining by using
| Apigenin, Quercetin, Fisetin, Niacin, regular exercise, a
| great diet, periods of safe fasting, and restful sleep.
|
| Since I'm 30, there's not a reason for me to take NMN in
| addition to the above strategies at the moment.
|
| As I enter my mid-30s, if my NAD levels are going down I
| will start taking NR.
|
| At this stage, there is far more published human data on NR
| compared with NMN. NR also has its Generally Recognized As
| Safe (GRAS) certification from the FDA. For those reasons,
| I would start NR, and not NMN."
|
| https://drstanfield.com/my-supplements/
| bilsbie wrote:
| What's your dose and brand? Why NMN vs NR?
| mmh0000 wrote:
| These are great questions, I'd also like to know dose
| frequency.
| polotics wrote:
| Also, what about NMN versus Niagen (Tru)? Also as I
| understand these molecule may be fragile, do you keep them in
| the fridge?
| MacsHeadroom wrote:
| Niagen is a trade name for NR. So you're asking the same
| question.
| evo_9 wrote:
| I do put all the more advanced stuff in the fridge
| including NMN, NR, rapamycin, heavy molecular weight
| Hyaluronic Acid
| agrothberg wrote:
| I take 250mg / day of NMN from NOVOS Labs
| (https://novoslabs.com/product/novos-boost/). I can't
| definitively say I feel the effects.
|
| The site offers a nice write up on NMN:
| https://novoslabs.com/nicotinamide-mononucleotide-nmn-and-
| lo....
| evo_9 wrote:
| 1gram every morning except my rest day when I take rapamycin.
|
| alivebyscience.com (they recently changed their name and I
| can't remember how to spell it sorry ha ha)
| evo_9 wrote:
| I've been taking NR too on and off as well, in my experience
| it doesn't seem to have much effect on my athletic
| performance. So for me I'm sticking with an NMN even though
| there's more clinical studies on nr at the moment
| david-gpu wrote:
| Do you also supplement it with anything else, such as TMG or
| another methyl group donor, as Sinclair recommends?
|
| Also, if you don't mind, what is your dose per unit of body
| weight, frequency and/or delivery method (oral/sublingual)?
| evo_9 wrote:
| I do. Along with Apigenin, and a few other new molecules.
|
| Sublingual.
| sometimeshuman wrote:
| If I had to guess, when you started taking it at 50 you were
| also exceptionally fit and healthy for your age. Would you
| invest that money in a supplement if you were already over the
| hill ?
|
| According to Dr.Sinclair (referenced in another comment), the
| NMN most people buy is probably worthless given it isn't
| stable. I buy it anyway because I have no better option and it
| doesn't burden my budget.
| evo_9 wrote:
| True, I played high-level hockey my whole life. And have
| actively worked out at a very high level most of my life...
| However I noticed everything dropping off around 50 and
| nothing seem to curb that. Especially my on ice speed which
| used to be always in the mid-20s and had dropped to the upper
| teens...
|
| After starting NMN particular my VO two max and on ice speed
| went back up to my norm and have remained the same and
| actually gone back up and he's always 22 to 25 miles an hour,
| at least when I'm playing against other high-end talent....
| Sorry for the Poor grammar working out and using voice Rec
| subrat_rout wrote:
| How are you taking it? And what does it cost?
| LinuxBender wrote:
| This is an interesting topic. I've followed Dr. Sinclairs work
| for some time. For me specifically I personally did not
| experience any notable gains but I only used NMN for about 6
| months and it was one of the more expensive supplements of the 50
| or so that I take.
|
| I've since switch back to just taking NAM daily since excess NMN
| is converted back to NAM for storage. I would like to learn how
| to improve the process of converting NAM -> NR -> NMN -> NAD+ but
| I have not found much literature on this process. Just flow
| diagrams. The literature explains that the bi-directional cycle
| of conversion slows with age but I can't find anything explaining
| what the specific mechanisms are that degrade with age and how to
| modify the root cause of the degradation.
| joshu wrote:
| Do you have a list published somewhere?
| LinuxBender wrote:
| I do not. I used to list my methods on a website but I prefer
| to have people research this topic themselves and fully
| understand it as their physiology and pre-existing conditions
| will differ from mine. What works for me may have negative
| side effects on others and I would prefer they take
| responsibility for the trial-and-error process they will have
| to go through. I've even stopped using the scientific method
| as it is just too slow given the complexity of all the
| systems in a mammal and how they interact with one another
| and I could not in good conscience promote that for others.
| wallfacer77 wrote:
| Do you have a blog? If not, would you be interested in
| making one? You could post it on HN and as the replies
| surely are telling you already, people will enjoy reading
| it.
|
| You may get some useful comments too with suggestions for
| different supplements and stuff.
| ck2 wrote:
| NAM NR and NMN all use different absorption pathways and have
| different pitfalls.
|
| There's good reason people stopped using NAM once there were
| alternatives available, topic well outside the scope of HN but
| not hard to google.
|
| You cannot change the conversion process/rate, at least not
| with current knowledge, it is rate limited by multiple
| biological processes.
|
| I strongly caution to use google scholar and not blogs/youtube
| for information.
|
| Also everyone should be aware because of the high cost there is
| A LOT of counterfeit NMN out there, never buy unknown
| brands/sources.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| _You cannot change the conversion process /rate, at least not
| with current knowledge_
|
| That is precisely the wall I have hit but I am a stubborn old
| bastard and will not give up.
| ck2 wrote:
| There are PhDs with multi-million dollar grants who cannot
| do it.
|
| I mean let's say they did somehow figure out an enzyme to
| speed it up, it would likely cost more than just
| supplementing more of the desired precursors.
|
| There might be some obscure food or supplement that does
| what you want but it will cost more because it will be rare
| and then you've got the problem of huge consistency between
| batches because all manufacturing in China/India is the
| wild-west.
|
| Easier to just take the precursors which are mass produced
| so prices slowly coming down, though
| covid/inflation/supply-chain threw it a curve.
| balfirevic wrote:
| > never buy unknown brands/sources
|
| All NMN brands are unknown to me - how do I judge?
| ziddoap wrote:
| > _of the 50 or so that I take_
|
| I'm no doctor and have absolutely no idea what I'm talking
| about with respect to supplements, but my god that seems like
| just an absurd amount of supplements (especially if some of
| them are doing multiple things like a multivitamin or
| whatever). Do you take all 50 of these daily? Do you like...
| Blend them up so your not popping pills for 15 minutes straight
| every morning?
| LinuxBender wrote:
| I cycle some molecules up and down. Some molecules I take at
| different times of the day or week. Some can only be taken a
| couple times a week as they can be toxic if not used
| correctly. Some are safe to take daily. I have researched all
| of them extensively. Some of them I take at levels that would
| make people cringe as the _known literature_ around some of
| them is incomplete.
|
| I am not a fan of multivitamins though I do keep one around
| and rarely touch it. Most of them contain very low quality
| components, most notably the vitamin E which is nearly almost
| always alpha-tocopherol and since I am male that is a major
| risk for prostate cancer if not taken with the right balance
| of gamma-tocopherol and selenium. Rather I prefer to take the
| tocotrienols. Multivitamins also contain a low quality form
| of vitamin C in the form of ascorbic acid and that is a topic
| in and of itself. I prefer to get the majority of my vitamin
| C from green leafy vegetables using a high powered blender
| that acts as a juicer.
|
| I do at times carry with me a small metal canister that can
| hold about 10-15 pills when I know I will be eating food
| someone else made, but most of that is for different formulas
| of garlic extracts, digestive enzymes, TUDCA, oregano oil and
| other things that assist with digestion and neutralization of
| pathogens in food.
|
| If you are interested in these topics a good starting point
| is nih.gov, just be highly skeptical of any studies you find.
| Their search is awful so I would use google and put in
| "site:nih.gov some topic"
| elif wrote:
| Cringe of 'known literature' in an area where pharma
| companies buy their own safety studies is warranted.. in
| exactly the opposite way in which you cringe.
|
| The burden of safety is on the consumer to navigate cherry
| picked and designed studies whose purpose is to minimize
| perceived risk, not to understate safety margins...
|
| I also hope your research is in pharmacology school and not
| blogs and tiktok.
| replygirl wrote:
| can't imagine being this afraid of mortality
| LinuxBender wrote:
| I have a different view on this topic. I can walk into
| any sports bar and ask any person who is going to win.
| They will not only have a fairly accurate answer but will
| also be able to tell me who will make how many touch-
| downs, intercepts, passes with a high degree of accuracy.
|
| And yet...
|
| If I ask that same person what percentage of their thymus
| has converted to fat I will get blank stares or receive
| ad-hominem attacks from them. Whereas they predicted
| touch-downs I can predict their risks of all cause
| mortality and health span by observing their behavior and
| physical characteristics. I would never point it out to
| them as that would be rude and counter-productive.
| Knowing advanced analytical statistics on football
| players might net them some money from gambling but will
| not extend their healthspan or lifespan.
|
| I find this to be both fascinating and disturbing at the
| same time. To me, the priorities of people are topsy-
| turvy upside down and backwards. I do not expect many
| people to share my view.
| hericium wrote:
| For most, the fear is more of old age problems, not
| death, I think.
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| I can't think of a more reasonable thing to fear than
| death.
| staticassertion wrote:
| I generally feel that anyone not afraid of mortality has
| some extreme denial or depression going on (more often
| the former).
| nick__m wrote:
| I am afraid on the decline before my death, death itself
| while not immediately desirable is not that frightening
| in comparison.
|
| An uncle recently deceased in from cardiac arrest in his
| bed at his home during his sleep at 83. He was fishing
| the day before.... That's an ideal death IMHO. If you
| knew that you would have a similar death, would you be
| afraid ? I would not.
| staticassertion wrote:
| Even the idea of an "ideal death" just rings of denial to
| me. Yes, getting punched is getting better than stabbed,
| but I wouldn't exactly romanticize it.
|
| The issue isn't the "dying", it's the endless trillions
| of years of experience we are deprived of in death.
| pyrophane wrote:
| I would be curious, if you are willing, to see a complete
| list of the items you take and why.
| bratao wrote:
| +1, I would love to get this!
| GordonS wrote:
| How much do you spend on supplements every month?
| LinuxBender wrote:
| I honestly do not keep track of it. I consider this an
| alternative to other expensive hobbies that I have since
| given up such as off-roading and renting ultra-lights. I
| know that it does not come close to what I used to spend
| on repairing off-road vehicles.
| jrimbault wrote:
| I think the underlying question was "Why not eat food ?" or
| "Why do you use so much complements if you can eat normally
| ?"
| LinuxBender wrote:
| That is a good question. I personally am compensating for
| the lack of nutrients in food and also over-compensating
| for damage that I have done to my organs from a lifetime
| of eating a "standard american diet" or what I prefer to
| call a "first world diet". A healthy food diet just
| wasn't cutting it for me, especially given that stomach
| acid and other aspects of digestion decrease with age. I
| can compensate with digestive enzymes, tudca,
| benfotiamine and chelated zinc but that has rapidly
| diminishing effects.
|
| My goals go far beyond what a good diet and moderate
| exercise and decent sleep alone can accomplish but I
| would never even try to convince anyone to do what I am
| doing nor would I even suggest it unless one researches
| all of the molecules and their downstream effects ad-
| nauseam.
| joshfraser wrote:
| You can also take NAD+ intravenously. IV clinics in most major
| cities will be able to offer it and it's nothing short of
| incredible. The difference to energy levels and mental clarity
| after taking it are both immediate and undeniable.
| gavinray wrote:
| Why pay a bunch of money for that?
|
| Anyone can buy bacteriostatic water from medical supply
| websites, along with syringes, themselves. I can personally
| recommend Hospira brand.
|
| Just give yourself the IV.
| amelius wrote:
| What if the substance comes as a powder? How do you know if
| it dissolves completely? It just sounds too risky.
| nick__m wrote:
| I afraid of needles and of opiate addiction so I never used
| injectable drugs but if I had to inject myself with an
| homemade solution, I would follow that manual1 , use a
| syringe that include a filter2 and usebacteriostatic water
| like gavinray said.
|
| That should cover all the probable risks, with the
| exception of those caused by the substance itself.
|
| 1) https://harmreduction.org/issues/safer-drug-
| use/injection-sa...
|
| 2) https://www.exchangesupplies.org/shopdisp_filter_syringe
| .php
| amelius wrote:
| I think it is strange that the filter doesn't have a
| description of the pore size.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| DIY NAD+ IV will give an uncomfortable rush if you take too
| much too quickly. I presume you mean infusion which needs to
| be done slowly with a drip or an infusion pump.
| GordonS wrote:
| Can you IM it too? IM usually has a slight drop in
| bioavailability vs IV, but it's much easier.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| NAD+ IM will hurt a fair bit at the injection site.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| I've tried high dose NAD+ IV and the effect wears off too
| quickly for me for it to be worth it. The 750mg dose only
| giving a boost for less than 24hrs.
| mmh0000 wrote:
| In your experience, how long does the effect last for? At
| around $600/treatment (at least according to a quick Google),
| it better last awhile.
| joshfraser wrote:
| I do them once every two months. The benefits are most
| noticeable for the first couple weeks.
| evo_9 wrote:
| Since a lot of people are asking me different questions in this
| thread I figured I'd let people know if you wanna just email me
| look at my profile and reach out. Happy to share my entire stack
| with anybody that wants to see it...
|
| Or if you happen to be a high-level hockey player in Denver we're
| starting to look for a few guys to fill out our winter roster =)
| tguvot wrote:
| been taking not exactly NMN, but NR (tru niagen) for a few
| months. my liver enzymes (alt/ast) first time in a very long time
| are back in proper range.
| samstave wrote:
| Do you drink a lot? Were you drinking a lot before you started
| taking them, and reduced drinking - or did you change anything
| other that adding NR/NMN to your intake?
| tguvot wrote:
| Drinking same as before (1.5l-3l at any given day). Also got
| some different multivitamins, but I doubt that they changed
| anything.
|
| There are some mouse studies that nmn/nr improve alt/ast
| level, but it not really clear is it just enzyme level
| normalization or does it actually repair anything. So i am
| not sure at this point of time is it improvement or
| "improvement"
|
| Edit. in case by drinking it was implied alcohol and not
| water, no. just some wine here and there. no big changes
| GordonS wrote:
| Not the GP, but I'm pretty sure they were asking if you
| drank a lot of alcohol, not water :)
| pyrophane wrote:
| Heh, saw 1.5/3L/day and I just thought, well, that's a
| lot of alcohol.
| tguvot wrote:
| ooopsie...(there are also a lot of discussions about how
| much water you drink, etc...) in this case not more than
| usual. some wine here and there. nothing major and no
| alcoholism, if this is what was implied
| joshu wrote:
| i am a bit wary of any doctor with a podcast
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