[HN Gopher] JetBrains Research
___________________________________________________________________
JetBrains Research
Author : davidbarker
Score : 218 points
Date : 2022-08-17 13:13 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (research.jetbrains.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (research.jetbrains.org)
| user3939382 wrote:
| This is amazing! The cynical side of me says, please let me
| switch git branches in CLI without PhpStorm losing my branch
| context/file set -- a bug that's been sitting for 5 years and
| basically looks like is never getting fixed.
| nine_k wrote:
| Their IDEs are more or less modular. So if the git integration
| is included in Community Edition of anything (like Idea or
| PyCharm), the source code must be there, and you can
| theoretically fix it. Then the fix should apply everywhere.
| ithrow wrote:
| This is my beef sometimes with this IDEs, is hard to change
| their stubborn behaviors.
| silexia wrote:
| stusmall wrote:
| First, they are a Czech company. Second, they have taken a
| public and open stance against the war.
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/03/11/jetbrains-stateme...
| isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote:
| They are Czech on paper, founders and most high level
| employees are Russian. Their main dev center used to be Sankt
| Petersburg, that's why Kotlin is named like that.
| kgeist wrote:
| >Their main dev center used to be Sankt Petersburg
|
| Is it still true? There were news of them selling their
| properties in St.Petersburg.
| Genbox wrote:
| Their offices in Moscow (Capital of Russia. Largest
| city), Saint Petersburg (Second largest city in Russia)
| and Novosibirsk (Third largest city in Russia) were
| suspended indefinitely in March 2022[1]
|
| [1] https://www.jetbrains.com/company/
| atemerev wrote:
| They are moving out from Russia as fast as they can, but
| unfortunately it takes time.
| nine_k wrote:
| Most of the people I knew who used to sit in St Petersburg
| back in the day when I worked at JetBrains are now
| somewhere more western. They have a pretty significant
| office in Munich, for instance.
|
| I don't know if their office in St Petersburg is still
| operating, since they claimed to stop sales _and R &D_
| activities in Russia:
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/03/11/jetbrains-
| stateme...
| tasuki wrote:
| ... making it even more impressive that they have taken a
| public stance against the war!
| isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote:
| Absolutely. I'm still surprised that they are continuing
| with the business.
| mouzogu wrote:
| i don't know how someone leaps from an IDE to putin.
|
| how can you be sure some of the food you eat is not from
| russia, or made with russian fertilizer or some other russian
| derivative like gas.
|
| maybe the car you drive was built by a russian, or maybe vscode
| itself has code from russians, who fully support putin.
|
| fwiw i also dislike jetbrains, but nothing to do with russia or
| putin, nonsense.
| syspec wrote:
| This is PURE fud. They literally are from Eastern Europe, not
| Russia. They have spoken out against the war specifically
| against pitons actions on their blog.
|
| They're Czech
| mouzogu wrote:
| russia isn't eastern europe?
| donedealomg wrote:
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| I think it comes from the fact that their founders and high
| level execs are Russian and those chains are hard to break
| and people simply going to be suspicious during times of
| war. Especially with something as "basic" as an IDE that
| could potentially upload your source code to a Russian
| server. I'm personally not worried and think that would be
| found out rather quickly by security researchers and IT
| security wondering why spurious encrypted transactions are
| happening on weird ports to other countries. It's the same
| reason that governments have issued warnings about
| Kaspersky antivirus, although that one has root privileges
| on most machines that it runs on. Since a huge part of the
| source is closed it's hard to prove anything one way or
| another other than through detecting any suspicious
| activity.
| atleta wrote:
| According to the wikipedia [1], the company was founded
| in Prague by 3 Russian developers. Now you can say that
| those ties are hard to break, but another way to look at
| it is that the founders have (likely) been living abroad
| for 2+ decades and building a global company there.
|
| They have publicly condemned Russia for attacking Ukraine
| and closed their Russian offices. They also suspended
| sales in _Belarus_. [2]
|
| And closing offices here means letting go of developers
| (with possibly offering them the opportunity to relocate,
| of course) which sounds like a pretty hard decision to
| make both from the human and the business perspective.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBrains [2]
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/03/11/jetbrains-
| stateme...
| [deleted]
| bmc7505 wrote:
| JBR is one of the very few industry labs that conducts pure
| research in CS and programming language theory. For a relatively
| small company, their publication record is exemplary.
|
| https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22J...
| Genbox wrote:
| "Small" here being 1900 full-time employees and ~250 interns in
| 10 different offices[1]
|
| [1] https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/annualreport-2022/
| mekster wrote:
| Why do they need that many for the products they have?
|
| Sounds like just because they can but not exactly using them
| effectively on the new fleet offering by the look of the
| progress speed.
| xeromal wrote:
| They did write "relative" in front of small. They're a mite
| compared to FAANG and yet publish prolifically.
| bmc7505 wrote:
| Compared with MSR or Brain which have over 100x their
| headcount, JBR punches well above their weight in CORE CS
| conference and journal publications.
| Drunk_Engineer wrote:
| Looks like their research groups are in Russia. Not sure how
| that's going to work going forward.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| They closed their Russia offices and no longer do any business
| in Russia.
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/03/11/jetbrains-stateme...
| [deleted]
| Drunk_Engineer wrote:
| They should update their home page. It still shows offices in
| Russia, with a footnote saying "suspended".
| helge9210 wrote:
| Since escalation in Ukraine (war itself started in 2014) they
| conducted a massive relocation of personnel out of Russia to
| EU.
| silexia wrote:
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| JetBrains was founded in the Czech Republic ~2 decades ago.
| While what you say is no doubt true for many of their
| employees, I'm guessing their founders have had enough time
| to distance themselves from Russia given their exit was
| always a possibility.
| w10-1 wrote:
| JetBrains has done well by copying and privatizing code. They're
| among the leaders in pretending open-source. After they were
| bought out, they went all-in on the subscription model.
|
| Their technical initiatives and research may be mostly for
| recruiting and branding. Their language toolkit has been their
| primary infrastructure, but no one else seems to have built
| anything on it.
|
| Yes, they are Russian. The concern is that their code gets
| downloaded and run with full privileges everywhere.
|
| But the bulk is JVM-based and easily analyzed (no?). As far as I
| know, they have never been caught doing anything wrong, and their
| code has never been implicated, in their decades of business. And
| Google likely vetted them before agreeing to anoint their IDE and
| language for Android development, right?
|
| The bio's of the computational bio researchers are suspect. It's
| unlikely their model is actually used for anything.
|
| I imagine data from the subscription would be very useful to
| Russia.
|
| In short: plenty to worry about, and nothing to worry about :)
| atleta wrote:
| They are not 'all in' on the subscription model: if you stop
| paying you still get to use the last version issued while you
| were a subscriber. (Or maybe the one that was the current one
| when you paid your yearly subscription, but it doesn't make
| much of a difference.) They call it 'perpetual fallback
| license'.
|
| I think it's a fair compromise between owning what you have
| paid for and being able to fund continuous development of the
| platform (and also to be able to receive updates without having
| to make a buy/skip decision all the time).
|
| Also, they are not a Russian company and have severed ties with
| Russia a few weeks after the war has started.
| nightski wrote:
| Yes if you stop paying you need to downgrade to the version
| at the time of payment, probably from a year ago. It can make
| a big difference if the ecosystem is changing. For example,
| in .NET if you are using a newer version of .NET at that time
| it could make the IDE unusable.
|
| I have been using their products for over a decade but I
| still hate this model.
|
| Typically when buying a full product + support subscription
| you are supposedly paying for bug fixes/enhancements that
| come during that support period - it's built into the price.
| atleta wrote:
| I've checked their website [1] and it says that the
| fallback includes bug fixes during the period you've paid
| for. Yes, 1 year can make a difference, but I see the
| fallback as a way of being able to have the product around
| just in case I need it after deciding I don't need it
| enough to continue paying for it.
|
| Sure, if .NET (or whatever your platform of choice) gets
| updated during your _last_ subscription period, that may
| seem like bad luck. But sooner or later it will happen
| anyway and thus it will affect you if you stop paying. (Not
| sure about how .NET works, but in the java world,
| especially on linux, you can have multiple versions
| installed, so you could still continue using the product.)
|
| Another way to look at it is that when you first buy the
| product, you pay for that version and you get temporary
| access to updates during the next year. Then you buy the
| next version and get temp access for the updates to that
| one for another year. So looking at it from the first
| payment it makes sense. But I agree, that what you say
| would be more elegant and probably also easier to
| digest/understand.
|
| [1] https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-
| gb/articles/207240845-What...
| [deleted]
| kaba0 wrote:
| And what if they are Russians? Like, are you literally claiming
| that being from Russia is somehow bad? The government's war is
| condemnable to the highest degree but don't loose sight of the
| forest for a tree...
| bigbillheck wrote:
| > Yes, they are Russian
|
| The available evidence disagrees. (They're from Czechia)
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| syngrog66 wrote:
| JetBrains makes excellent IDEs but their heavy Russian connection
| makes it a challenge to consider their tools when security is a
| top concern.
|
| I wish I knew of tools comparable to theirs but without the
| problematic associations.
| kaba0 wrote:
| The community edition is open source.
|
| Also, you can quite easily check for any data sent to specific
| IPs or even disable anything except your projects git repo for
| example.
| mekster wrote:
| So you read general news only and not their blog.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| JetBrains explicitly condemned Russia on the day of invasion:
| https://twitter.com/jetbrains/status/1496786254494670851
|
| And dissolved all their operations in Russia very quickly:
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/03/11/jetbrains-stateme...
|
| Their conduct was exemplary. If you mean their place of birth /
| nationality, then I guess there's nothing they can do about
| _that_.
| gotts wrote:
| user3939382 wrote:
| This feels reminiscent of Dr. Strangelove.
|
| It's like saying: remember anyone working for a US company
| could be coerced by the CIA!
|
| If you don't like Putin fine, we don't need a witch hunt
| against anything remotely Russian.
| msoad wrote:
| with that logic many Russians also work for Google, Microsoft
| or Facebook. So what?
|
| Picking a name from Russia is not a crime! What is this
| comment?!
| bsedlm wrote:
| I'm appaled how the american propaganda machine convinces so
| many people that they're out there fighting for freedom and for
| the world. Obviously they have to protect their imperialistic
| interest in order for their hegemonic mastery over the world to
| make sense.
|
| Yes, they're not as terrible as some more autocratic and
| despotic regimes. But it is naive to think that they're not an
| imperial force who would never commit any attrocities.
|
| Just a remider, the USA government runs guantanamo.
| ShamelessC wrote:
| > neither of their 1900 employees are not at risky of being
| forced forced
|
| What a compelling argument
| lake_vincent wrote:
| Oh wow, they have a HoTT research group? That's very interesting,
| and exciting. I'd love a JetBrains automated proof assistant.
| bmc7505 wrote:
| https://arend-lang.github.io
| ericmay wrote:
| Very neat. Thanks for sharing.
| lake_vincent wrote:
| _swoons_
| pigtailgirl wrote:
| -- JetBrains have existed since 2000 & till recently they didn't
| cross my radar - what happened in the last year that I see them
| trending all over the Dev-o-sphere? Seems they've really hit
| their stride - is there a particular product folks have adopted
| or their marketing has improved or....? --
| thomascgalvin wrote:
| They have three major products that are wildly popular:
|
| - IntelliJ is the most popular IDE for JVM-based languages, and
| provides a framework for other IDEs (like PyCharm, GoLand, etc)
|
| - Kotlin is the standard language for Android development, and
| is now a first-class citizen in Spring Boot
|
| - Jetpack promises cross-platform UI development that works
| better than anything since Electron. It remains to be seen if
| that promise pays off, but it has people excited.
| euos wrote:
| They are a Russian company with most engineers in Russia. There
| had been a strong records in Russian social networks of their
| engineers supporting Russian attacks on other countries (e.g.
| there was one engineer back in 2014 who moderated another forum
| and was banning Ukrainians and expressing glee at annexation of
| Crimea).
|
| They had been working hard to distance themselves from Russia.
| You may also notice similar spike in activity from Yandex, who
| had been publishing open-source project at elevated rate last
| half a year.
| atemerev wrote:
| They are a Czech company with founders originally from Russia
| (but most of them moved to other countries long time ago).
| Their leadership do not support war in Ukraine and doing many
| things to help Ukrainians. As for the opinions of individual
| engineers -- there are many engineers in, say, FAANG, and
| other companies who sadly expressed pro-Russian views in
| social media. I have seen them here on Hacker News.
| maxdo wrote:
| They are as Czech as google or apple a company from
| Ireland. they've been part of security incidents involved
| traces with Russia. Their presence in Russia is huge.
| Working with them is a potential risk.
| mike_hearn wrote:
| _" they've been part of security incidents involved
| traces with Russia"_
|
| You mean that some company that ran a poorly secured
| TeamCity instance and got hacked decided to try and shift
| the blame to JetBrains, knowing full well that a certain
| demographic will eat up anything vaguely of the form "Six
| Degrees of Kevin Russian"?
|
| Yeah no. Most sensible people don't consider a connection
| as tenuous as "some company that got hacked had
| misconfigured a product made by a company with offices in
| country X" as a reasonable thing to make insinuations on.
| atemerev wrote:
| They are closing Russia's offices right now and offering
| relocation packages to everyone still left there.
|
| It is somewhat hard to work with Russian security
| services after this statement:
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/03/11/jetbrains-
| stateme...
| euos wrote:
| You'll be surprised how understanding Russian security
| services are to business climate. Russians are
| survivalists.
|
| Pretty sure GRU officer was typing that blog entry with
| one hand, keeping fingers on other hand crossed behind
| his back.
| comonoid wrote:
| My sources state that they have closed all Russia's
| offices and terminated contracts with everyone who
| haven't relocated.
|
| Update: technically, there are some corporate lawyers and
| accountants that are working on closing JetBrain's LLC in
| Russia. But we are talking about software engineers,
| aren't we?
| euos wrote:
| And my sources show otherwise... Offices are closed, I
| give you that.
| euos wrote:
| Yandex "parent company" is in Netherlands. Kasperky Lab "is
| operated" by a UK holding company.
|
| They are one of the "sneaky" Russian companies who make
| money on the West but fully support Russian government.
| Czech office and such is to keep appearances.
|
| 1. Business/sales in Czech, eng in Saint-Petersburg. At
| least, used to.
|
| 2. They did not react on Ukrainians discussing their
| employee pro-war stance. They made sure to clean up all
| discussions on their forums and elsewhere.
|
| 3. They formally closed the offices. Employee are working
| remotely from Russia.
|
| There already was a SolarWinds breach. There will be more.
| atemerev wrote:
| Solarwinds/Jetbrains association was a journalist
| mistake:
|
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/01/06/statement-on-
| the-...
|
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/01/07/an-update-on-
| sola...
|
| https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2021/01/08/january-8th-
| updat...
|
| "we have proactively reached out and spoken to the US
| Department of Justice, and have offered them our full
| cooperation in this matter."
|
| Jetbrains are not Kaspersky, they are one of the good
| guys, as far as my numerous sources confirm.
| euos wrote:
| Right. The fabled "good Russians". That do not support
| the "Putin war". They probably even put "support Ukraine
| in any means possible" on their LinkedIn profiles.
| atemerev wrote:
| Absolutely. Also sending money and helping with
| logistics. If you have taken a look at the said LinkedIn
| profile, you might have noticed a post which says that
| "not supporting the Putin's war" is no longer enough. We
| need to do something to help Ukraine win.
|
| I am not saying this gives an indulgence or something --
| I am not the one being bombed. Everything I do will
| probably not be enough. But it is not an excuse to do
| nothing.
| euos wrote:
| I will not resume this discussion here. You will probably
| see me on your LinkedIn. Feel free to reach out if you
| wonder where me, my family and my friends would like you
| to put your money.
| kubav wrote:
| I think they lost/overgrown competition. Other IDEs started to
| loose development speed and newer programs like sublime, atom
| and vscode are not comparable (they are more like improved vim
| + plugins experience than heavyweight IDE).
|
| I have switched to clion from eclipse CDT in 2018 (because of
| missing support for newer C++ standards) and never looked back
| (tried vscode but its UI is not customizable at all). Later I
| have subscribed for all product pack as I have projects in
| multiple languages (personal license is quite cheap especially
| with discount for long term customers).
|
| The only think I hate about jetbrains IDEs is their licensing.
| It is not possible to have all features in one project:
|
| * idea ultimate has plugins for everything except native
| (support is limited without debuger etc.)
|
| * clion has plugins for native but limited plugins for
| everything else (pycharm community, limited JS support, no big
| data tools for kafka etc.)
|
| I work on python project with some parts being C++ modules and
| I have to switch between IDEs for one project to have all
| features.
| stephenhuey wrote:
| Around 2005 or so, I remember a programmer on another team at a
| bank telling me that IntelliJ was so much better than Eclipse.
| I've also written a lot of Ruby over the years, and at some
| point I was using TextMate because it was a supercharged text
| editor (not an IDE) that helped with some Ruby things, but
| eventually I switched to Rubymine which is made by JetBrains.
| It's not perfect, and I don't use a lot of the IDE, but
| considering Ruby is a dynamic language, Rubymine does a great
| job of helping me jump around large numbers of project files
| quickly to method definitions, etc. Occasionally I use it to go
| digging into the source of Ruby gems. Refactoring across the
| project works pretty well too which is harder to get right in a
| dynamic language. It saves me a lot of time.
| Longhanks wrote:
| CLion is a solid Choice for some C and C++ workloads, not all
| of them. It's pretty good at most tasks. Struggles with super
| large projects and exotic compilers/build systems, but mostly
| solid.
|
| Though if you're accustomed to say visual studio, there's few
| reasons to switch.
|
| It's nice to have a enterprise-grade IDE on Linux, though. I
| personally love it.
| necubi wrote:
| CLion is also a really good (imo the best) Rust IDE
| krisgenre wrote:
| I switched to intelliJ 7 years ago after trying out Android
| Studio. I suppose this plus Kotlin is making people more aware
| of Jetbrains. Back then almost all beginner tutorials used to
| show Eclipse but that has changed gradually to intelliJ. In
| fact I can't remember seeing Eclipse in any recent programming
| videos, its just intelliJ and VSCode everywhere.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| You must not be in the Java world? They have dominated the IDE
| there for quite a while.
| StevePerkins wrote:
| I don't know what tech stack you work in primarily. But
| IntelliJ basically ate the Java world around 12 years ago, I
| haven't talked in real-life to an Eclipse (or anything else)
| user since 2010.
|
| ReSharper has been a standard in the .NET world for well over a
| decade. If you're a C# developer and you don't use it, then you
| are at least familiar with it.
|
| In the Python world, I believe that PyCharm has somewhere
| between 1/3 and 50% market share. That and VS Code are the two
| main games in town.
|
| I'm not as well connected to other ecosystems, but I believe
| that RubyMine and PhpStorm are very prominent in the Ruby and
| PHP worlds.
|
| I mean basically, in 2022 I would say that the vast majority of
| developers fall into one of 3 categories:
|
| * They use a Jetbrains product.
|
| * They use VS Code (I guess you can throw full-blown Visual
| Studio into this bucket as well).
|
| * They use a plain text editor, instead of an IDE or more IDE-
| like tool.
| Longhanks wrote:
| You're leaving out a few industries - Game development mostly
| takes place usinh Visual Studio, iOS Development is 95%
| XCode.
|
| There's also specialized industries like Qt clients which
| probably use Qt Creator (there's barely any editor
| understanding QML).
| Kyrio wrote:
| I work in the games industry, we use Visual Studio... With
| ReSharper ;)
| ferrumfist wrote:
| I would be shocked if Rider doesn't become the industry
| standard IDE for game development. My experience with Rider
| in UE4 and UE5 has been outstanding since I switched last
| year. It's a night and day difference between using Rider
| and using Visual Studio.
| ynx wrote:
| Gamedev here. Nope.
|
| We use Unity, so we're writing C#. We use Rider.
| callmeal wrote:
| >I haven't talked in real-life to an Eclipse (or anything
| else) user
|
| Ahem. We like to stay out of these wars because Eclipse is
| not a text editor with extensions but a full-fledged IDE.
| That said, I haven't looked into IntelliJ in a while - do
| they still reccomend switching to the eclipse compiler for
| performance reasons?
| sngz wrote:
| performance has gotten much better since IntelliJ 11 iirc.
| that was when I swapped over from eclipse to intelliJ, the
| initial startup time was still longer but performance was
| pretty much the same after that. Prior to that I was still
| using eclipse cause of how slow IntelliJ was
| chris_st wrote:
| For whatever it's worth, my wife's (fairly small) project is
| still on Eclipse since before 2010. They know it and like it.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| 18 years of working mostly java dev, still on Eclipse. Yes
| its simpler. No its not for performance although on typical
| corporate hardware any performance gain is strongly
| appreciated. I prefer running command lines in ie git or
| maven/gradle to learn/keep using the tools even when there
| are plugins for pure clicking.
|
| Even won some personal license of Idea on some Belgian java
| conference around 2007 (javapolis? way too long ago), but
| it never sticked with me for too long (back then it was
| significantly slower IDE but already more powerful than
| most peers).
|
| A few devs within company use Idea, but there are no strict
| requirements. Code is easily portable between those and
| nothing IDE specific ever goes to git repos. It really
| doesn't matter that much in enterprise Java, if anybody
| tells you otherwise they are probably junior or do
| something very niche in this realm.
| eitland wrote:
| There still are a few of us who prefer other tools.
|
| I'm actually delighted everytime I can use NetBeans, but I am
| still a paying Jetbrains user because I work on projects who
| use Kotlin (wonderful language even if I dislike that it is
| only supported in IntelliJ).
|
| That said I like Jetbrains the company even if I don't like
| IntelliJ and I try to help them pick up the good parts from
| NetBeans (Just Works, Absolutely Amazing Maven integration,
| Sane Defaults).
| kevingadd wrote:
| Yeah ReSharper has definitely been de-facto standard in .NET
| space since at least the C# 2.0 days. The only reasons I
| don't use it are that it's incredibly buggy and JetBrains'
| customer service is atrocious - the productivity value was
| tremendous.
| thfuran wrote:
| >They use a plain text editor, instead of an IDE or more IDE-
| like tool.
|
| For java development? I mean, it's not illegal, but...
| 411111111111111 wrote:
| It's actually surprisingly decent after you've enabled the
| Java extensions. vscode is noticably faster, and has
| generally most of the important features at this point too,
| though they're sometimes hard to discover (i.e you'll need
| to go through the command palette for creating a new class,
| instead of right click -> create a new class)
|
| I still default to intellij though but I'm paying for a
| private license, so i might just be biased
| dmitriid wrote:
| "Create class" is not an important feature.
|
| Jumping straight to implementations, finding all callers,
| immediately finding all invalid sites when you update a
| function, refactoring function signatures,
| extracting+lifting+moving methods, rewriting code into
| newer styles, decompiling and jumping into external
| libraries when debugging, understanding things like
| Spring config files ... the list just goes on.
| 0x457 wrote:
| It's not as bad as you think. Eclipse has LSP daemon[1]
| that can be used by any editor that speaks LSP.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/eclipse/eclipse.jdt.ls
|
| It depends on how much time you spend getting your editor
| setup.
| katbyte wrote:
| Most of the folk I know who develop in golang use their
| goland IDE.
|
| Their CI/CD server (team city) is also fantastic and I've
| been using it for over a decade.
| Icathian wrote:
| I work on a golang team and we're all VSCode. But most of
| us started in another language that is more typically
| VSCode-friendly, so maybe that's it?
| GiorgioG wrote:
| Could be. I started with Visual Studio + Resharper for
| .NET since ~2006. JetBrains IDEs for everything else and
| I am "allergic" to VSCode's UX. I can't explain it, but I
| just can't stomach the layout.
| katbyte wrote:
| Personally last time I tried vscode as a basic text
| editor it felt kinda sluggish (not to mention lacking in
| features) compared to anything by jetbrains, so much so I
| just use intellij for even basic text editing these days.
| GiorgioG wrote:
| I'm still using Sublime Text for basic text editing
| because it's startup speed still seems unmatched.
| noir_lord wrote:
| > but I believe that RubyMine and PhpStorm are very prominent
| in the Ruby and PHP worlds.
|
| In my domain (enterprise and high scalability PHP) PHPStorm
| straight won, there is PHPstorm, then a long way behind
| vscode and then everyone else.
| pigtailgirl wrote:
| -- the yaffascripts - nodejs mostly --
| mekster wrote:
| At least give Sublime Text a credit. It should be a small
| market share but some people like it.
|
| And there's probably a larger pie for those using vim/emacs.
| Though I seriously have problem understanding how vim can be
| any better than JetBrains or VS Code with vim key binding
| enabled.
| AdamN wrote:
| VS Code users are generally pretty junior or solo. Once a
| developer gets serious they'll usually need to go to a full
| IDE and that's either a JetBrains product or Visual Studio
| (xcode for Apple).
| bad_good_guy wrote:
| This is unbelievably inaccurate.
| HideousKojima wrote:
| The opposite for me, I'm one of those psychos who switched
| from VS to VSCode, and the majority of what I write is in
| C#. I decided I wanted to get extremely familiar with the
| dotnet CLI and how all of the tooling and build systems
| work, instead of relying on the conveniences provided by
| Visual Studio.
| al_mandi wrote:
| How do you handle profiling/debugging and the many more
| things that VS does?
| HideousKojima wrote:
| Debugging is fine, you can attach a debugger from VSCode
| no problem. For profiling, the truth is I usually don't
| profile lol. But if I did I would just use JetBrains'
| dotTrace.
| benbristow wrote:
| Visual Studio (Full, not Code) has a Mac version now,
| albeit it's a totally different codebase to the Windows
| edition (AFAIK a much updated version of what was
| MonoDevelop).
| [deleted]
| sangnoir wrote:
| I must be Benjamin Button then :). I feel it's the reverse:
| juniors need all the IDE support they can get for more
| context, seniors can do more with less.
|
| I gave up on IntelliJ after failing to stop the frequent
| re-indexing that would make my workstation unusable, and
| restarting the IDE would trigger another re-index which
| could succeed, or hang. I hope they fixed that, but I
| didn't stick around to find out - and I had been paying for
| a license for years out of my own pocket too. VSCode just
| reminded me that I don't have to wait needlessly - I had
| become inured to slow IDEs.
| adra wrote:
| This feels like a crock statement. A Sr developer who's
| efficient uses every tool at their disposal to be
| efficient and productive. Primitive IDEs and text editors
| may help your geek cred score, but as a long term java
| dev who's moved into Kotlin and go recently, vs code was
| borderline terrible and very limited in what I wanted in
| features. I never used intellij until my most recent
| company (eclipse mostly beforehand) but they really do a
| good job at streamlining the dev flow. I do miss eclipses
| much more dynamic layouts and arguably better integration
| with some external technologies, but idea's Kotlin
| integration has been top notch and makes for quite brisk
| in-the-flow coding experience like no other.
|
| As for hitching and speed, intellij has a poor 15 seconds
| on my laptop before it's super snappy and basically never
| drops perf whatever I'm hammering at. I think the common
| feature rich IDE slowness strawman is a defence for
| what's better expressed as an opinion. If you like
| featureless ides, have at it.
| [deleted]
| sangnoir wrote:
| > This feels like a crock statement. A Sr developer who's
| efficient uses every tool at their disposal to be
| efficient and productive.
|
| Correct: and in my case, VS Code with my customizations
| (plugins + configs) is more than equal to the task, it
| does everything I'd want from a full-blown IDE, and does
| it in a snap. Being disrupted by your IDE is maddening
| because it _only_ happens when you 're in deep focus.
|
| My IDE journey was similar to yours Eclipse -> Jetbrains,
| then what started off as a casual affair with VS Code on
| personal projects ended up being serious indeed.
|
| I felt like it was easier to add features _I_ want to VS
| Code than to remove /disable fearures from IntelliJ to
| trim the fat, YMMV. I'm glad to hear IntelliJ s now
| consistently fast after initialization - when I last used
| it, the slow downs were unpredictable and lasted minutes,
| and occasionally required restarting the IDE, but that
| was a long time ago, back when SSD storage was expensive.
| al_mandi wrote:
| I find IntelliJ to be quite fast. How big is your
| project?
| sangnoir wrote:
| This was many years ago, but IIRC, it was about 7-10kLoC
| at the time. Would you say IntelliJ is as fast as VS
| Code?
| TakeBlaster16 wrote:
| It's a subtle question. I'd say IntelliJ is less
| responsive, but I wouldn't say it's any slower. When
| stressed, IntelliJ's UI will get choppy and usually show
| a progress bar at the bottom. VSCode tends to keeps
| running at 60fps and stick a plain "Loading..." string
| somewhere in the UI.
| SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
| > VS Code users are generally pretty junior or solo. Once a
| developer gets serious they'll usually need to go to a full
| IDE
|
| If you mean exclusive "VS Code users" then maybe.
|
| As an IDE user for one file type (in my case *.cs ) I still
| find VS code a very useful tool for any other file types. I
| can install linters and formatters for them, e.g. for yaml,
| json, xml, text etc. and VS code then makes a great editor,
| hits a good spot between "still fairly light and fast" and
| "has features".
|
| An IDE focuses on one task. VS code complements it by being
| a "swiss army knife"
| usrusr wrote:
| After Crockford's "js is scheme" claim, curly emacs was
| bound to eventually happen. If you come to VS code from
| e.g. IntelliJ, the UI is surprisingly opaque, considering
| its undoubtedly graphic nature. Not quite C-m M-c
| M-butterfly opaque, but not _that_ far from it.
| SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
| > If you come to VS code from e.g. IntelliJ, the UI is
| surprisingly opaque, considering its undoubtedly graphic
| nature
|
| You don't need to memorise all the things in VS Code,
| just know to open the "Command Pallete", and that's on
| the menu.
| fisf wrote:
| That works just about the same way in intellij.
| usrusr wrote:
| IJ does have the "search everywhere" that can be used
| like the command palette, but it's still far from
| abandoning the idea of trying to make everything
| available in menu trees and the like. Plugins add cute
| pictures to the toolbar like it's 1999. VS:C is far more
| radical, there's The Palette and that's it.
| dvtrn wrote:
| _Wow_ that hurts.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| Shots fired! Didn't know Rob Pike can't even pass up as a
| junior - the man doesn't even use syntax highlight.
| [deleted]
| npteljes wrote:
| How "general" is Rob Pike though, I wonder? I'd say he's
| exceptional, given his track record.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| At least four star general
| mike_hearn wrote:
| They got a lot bigger. In 2015 they had ~600 employees. By 2020
| that was 1500.
|
| Basically they were able to:
|
| a. Refactor features out of IntelliJ Ultimate into separate
| products, expanding their mindshare and market share e.g.
| database plugin -> DataGrip.
|
| b. Move their userbase to subscriptions -> much larger and more
| stable revenue stream.
|
| c. Google migrated from Eclipse to IntelliJ for their Android
| IDE. Then Kotlin blew up and became adopted as the official
| primary language on Android, which created a massive ecosystem
| and drives lots of users to use IntelliJ and then upgrade to
| Ultimate.
| eweise wrote:
| I think they hit their stride around 2005.
| chrsig wrote:
| Perhaps your sphere is expanding? They've been widely regarded
| as some of the industry's best IDE creators for many many years
| zepearl wrote:
| Same here, I didn't really notice them a lot until recently.
|
| But then a few months ago I started learning Rust and ended up
| choosing CLion (with its Rust plugin), almost at the same time
| at the company I'm working for we started using IDEA (with its
| "Coldfusion" plugin). The products work, I don't have
| complains.
| mekster wrote:
| I think you just didn't care to find alternatives to your
| environment nor read much of HN comments on programming editor
| topics.
|
| It's been about 5 years since I decided to switch to all
| products pack from PHPStorm which I used for a few years.
| medwards666 wrote:
| Not sure, but they've really been active the last couple of
| years in language training and collaborative development. Plus,
| I happen to think their IDEs are probably the best out there
| (despite their relative complexity).
|
| Been a happy user of their IDE suite now for many years, and
| IMHO, nothing else comes even close.
| philipwhiuk wrote:
| They make software IDEs
|
| IntelliJ Ultimate is widely considered one of the best for Java
| development (Android Studio is a fork of the open source
| branch).
| mekster wrote:
| Not just Java. It's best for any languages they support. The
| only thing is that it's not lightweight but hopefully they'll
| get Fleet right.
| TheRealDunkirk wrote:
| I had to work on a Java-based web application for a brief-
| but-terrible moment, and I am very happy to have spent the
| money out of my own pocket for IntelliJ. I think using Java
| for web apps is a Bad Idea, but IntelliJ, at least, made it
| tolerable to write code for.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Java is great for web apps. Libraries for everything, quite
| fast if you keep services running (as opposed to loading
| them on demand) and has been quite successful in the sphere
| for quite some time. It's just not everyone's cup of tea. I
| think the more you like dynamic languages or functional the
| more you're going to absolutely hate java.
| TheRealDunkirk wrote:
| Java's great, but if we're building a WEB app, I like a
| language that can also generate the view. In Java land,
| everyone is now relying on some Javascript library, and I
| hate having to make 2 compilers agree at the edges where
| they touch.
| eastbound wrote:
| The only edge they touch is the REST API. Granted, it's a
| bit annoying to map types in Java and JS, but it's easy
| through Swagger or Typescript.
| kaba0 wrote:
| I agree with that wholeheartedly, but there is a
| solution: there is teavm which can compile byte code to
| js (and wasm), or google's closure compiler.
|
| There used to be also GWT and nowadays Vaadin I believe
| to do frontend completely, but I honestly think that a
| shared business lib with native frontend for each
| platform is the best way forward.
| Sin2x wrote:
| They also have a pretty darn good project-based learning platorm:
| https://hyperskill.org/tracks
| estsauver wrote:
| I'm curious how they arrived on some of these topics: Things like
| proof assistants seem like relatively straightforward extensions
| of their programming language expertise, but paper summarisation
| seems really out of left field.
|
| It also says it's a private entity--is this structured as a pure
| research company owned by JetBrains or as something else?
|
| Cool my IntelliJ license is (maybe?) supporting some really
| interesting academic projects.
| Q6T46nT668w6i3m wrote:
| I don't know but it's common, in industry research, to let
| researchers independently choose their focus.
| pumpkinprog wrote:
| > is this structured as a pure research company owned by
| JetBrains or as something else
|
| They mostly collaborate with independent university labs,
| giving them funding in exchage for working under the JBR brand
| and promoting some of their products (like Kotlin language).
| mdaniel wrote:
| they have a GH org, too: https://github.com/JetBrains-Research
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-08-17 23:02 UTC)