[HN Gopher] DigitalOcean Region Information
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       DigitalOcean Region Information
        
       Author : mtmail
       Score  : 122 points
       Date   : 2022-08-16 10:24 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (snapshooter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (snapshooter.com)
        
       | kkielhofner wrote:
       | In terms of the cloud providers other than the big three/four
       | (AWS, GCP, Azure, Oracle) most of your Digital Oceans, Linodes
       | (perhaps pre-Akamai?), etc of the world are almost all certainly
       | colocated. As others have noted the "big ones" typically operate
       | with a blend - green field physical construction for the big and
       | dense facilities combined with floors/cages/etc in colocation
       | facilities for areas around the world with lower hardware
       | requirements.
       | 
       | Colocation facilities are interesting (I've been in a lot of
       | them) and they generally (physically) fall in two buckets:
       | 
       | 1) Repurposing of old telecom (and even telegraph!) buildings.
       | CoreSite (a colocation provider) has a few floors (last I looked)
       | in The Telegraph Building in Chicago[0]. If you look at the
       | pictures of the exterior of the building it still says Western
       | Union on the side! There are some interesting aspects of these -
       | most of them are located in downtown areas. If you start looking
       | around in major cities you will start to notice gigantic
       | nondescript buildings with minimal signage, almost no foot
       | traffic, and almost no (if any) windows[1]. If they have any
       | signage at all it will typically be "Something Bell", Western
       | Union, AT&T, etc. These facilities are interesting for a variety
       | of reasons. Because they are repurposed telegraph and telecom
       | buildings going back to the days of mechanical telecom
       | switching[2] and DC battery banks they have floor load ratings
       | that are just incredible. Something like 20x or whatever of a
       | typical high-rise. Downside of these facilities is that on a
       | square footage basis they typically can't support the cooling
       | (and often electrical) requirements of modern compute equipment
       | which is much more dense than the extremely heavy but relatively
       | cool/low power mechanical switches and other equipment from
       | decades ago. If you look at the picture of the Telegraph Building
       | you will notice it's literally right next to the Chicago Stock
       | Exchange. Needless to say these facilities are really popular for
       | HFT stuff.
       | 
       | 2) Purpose built facilities. These are typically located near
       | population centers (for access to peering and other fiber) but
       | out of downtown areas. Examples here are CH7 and CH3 from
       | Equinix[3]. These are still close enough to major peering points
       | and fiber distribution so access and latency isn't terrible but
       | being in more "suburban" areas. Here they have more space to
       | build, real estate is cheaper, and interestingly since 9/11 there
       | has been a movement of sorts to move major hosting facilities
       | outside of densely populated areas/potential terrorist targets.
       | 
       | Then for your Google, Facebook, NSA, etc of the world they can
       | build in fairly remote (rural) areas where they have essentially
       | unlimited space and significantly higher security[4]. The kind of
       | thing where law enforcement and private security can setup
       | perimeters where if you get anywhere near the actual hosting
       | facility you better have a reason to be there - as opposed to a
       | downtown facility where thousands of people walk and drive by
       | everyday without ever knowing it's there.
       | 
       | [0] - http://wikimapia.org/30789188/Telegraph-Building-CoreSite-
       | Da...
       | 
       | [1] - https://nypost.com/2018/06/26/nsa-using-att-data-center-
       | in-h...
       | 
       | [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZePwin92cI
       | 
       | [3] - https://www.equinix.com/data-centers/americas-
       | colocation/uni...
       | 
       | [4] - https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/
        
         | jdoss wrote:
         | The Coresite building you are talking about is 427 S. LaSalle
         | and Coresite owns the whole thing. I worked for a company that
         | was customer #1 on the first floor around 2007 or so when they
         | were still renovating the building. We moved 4 racks from 600
         | South Federal Street which was owned by Digital Reality Trust.
         | Coresite built out 427 over time and IIRC Google has the entire
         | 5th or 6th floors or at least they did back when I left the
         | company in 2015.
        
           | kkielhofner wrote:
           | Sure is (first link has the address). I was there once around
           | '09/'10 for a tour and only remember them showing 2-3 floors
           | which, again from what I remember, was the shared colocation
           | space at the time. IIRC at least one floor was newly built
           | out and barely occupied. We signed with them and I never had
           | to go inside again.
           | 
           | As far as Chicago goes from what I remember someone at the
           | company had a bad experience with DRT so we never looked at
           | 600 S Federal but we did look at Equinix at 350 E Cermak
           | (which REALLY stands out) and a handful of others that
           | weren't memorable.
           | 
           | Thanks for the added detail!
        
         | kelp wrote:
         | Being inside those old repurposed telecom buildings can be
         | WILD. I was in one that had overhead bundles of ethernet and
         | fiber that had to be multiple feet thick, with the ladder rack
         | bowing down under the weight. Elevator shafts were repurposed
         | for running wires and fiber.
         | 
         | And then the building Google owns in Manhattan:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111_Eighth_Avenue
         | 
         | That had a bunch of carrier hotels in it, I'm not sure if
         | Google managed to kick them all out yet, since many had long
         | term leases. But the building has a bunch of truck elevators in
         | it... literally can load a truck up into the building. And a
         | ton of fiber connectivity's which is why the carrier hotels
         | were in there.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | kelp wrote:
       | This actually surprises me quite a bit.
       | 
       | There are a lot of very expensive facilities on this list. Ones
       | that I would not want to put much equipment in if I was at the
       | scale I presume Digital Ocean is at.
       | 
       | But maybe it's a factor of organic growth and starting each
       | region small, then having to grow into it. You can often get
       | space for like 1/3rd the cost of Equinix but with a lot less
       | services and maybe less quality. Equinix makes a very nice
       | datacenter but you sure do pay for it.
       | 
       | If I were building a CDN or an edge compute product like Fly.io
       | or Render, I'd certainly have a facility list that looked like
       | this, because I'm charging a bit of a premium for excellent
       | connectivity to population centers. Though I'd do some kind of
       | managed hosting first until I had the scale to even get into
       | collocation.
       | 
       | But for a bulk cloud provider I'd try to only use these
       | facilities for things like network POPs, DNS services, CDN, etc.
       | Then lease fiber to another facility that was a lot cheaper for
       | the bulk of my compute. But that does take a certain threshold of
       | scale to get there, and a longish planning horizon to make it
       | happen unless you're growing at insane rates.
        
       | mjwhansen wrote:
       | innnnteresting
        
       | speedgoose wrote:
       | I was wondering where were the datacenters for Azure and GCP in
       | my area, but I understood that they are simply using collocation
       | in existing datacenters.
        
         | hohl wrote:
         | Yes and no. They don't use the kind of co-location services you
         | might be thinking about.
         | 
         | Co-location targets the corporate world. Corporate world loves
         | it to just hand off the servers and have it run for them.
         | 
         | But if you go to a company such as Interxion/Digital Realities,
         | they will just send you away (or more specifically, send you to
         | one of their tenants that offers co-location services), because
         | they are primarily real estate companies.
         | 
         | They rent out empty rooms designed to be used for servers and
         | even office space on their campuses. These are normal lease
         | agreements and their purpose is that you put your own staff and
         | infrastructure there. And that's what most mid-sized to large
         | cloud providers actually use.
         | 
         | They wouldn't even have the employees to touch servers or
         | network equipment. What they take care of is ensuring that the
         | AC is working, that the shared Diesel aggregates are ready in
         | case of a power outage and that there is security personal
         | patrolling the campus, but they won't enter rooms rented out to
         | customers just like you wouldn't expect your landlord to go
         | into your flat.
         | 
         | (Equinix is a bit special on that point, since they offer both.
         | You can get co-location too through Equinix, but it's probably
         | not what AWS, GCP or Azure is using.)
        
       | zxcvbn4038 wrote:
       | This was a fun article, does anyone know where the AWS facilities
       | are?
       | 
       | One of the best perks of working at Tumblr was once a month they
       | had a data center tour for employees, you got to go to NJ for a
       | day to see the facility, all of the power equipment, cooling,
       | network equipment, and the servers themselves. Really awesome and
       | eye opening. Pictures don't really convey the size of these
       | places.
        
         | fayalargeau wrote:
         | that is honestly one of the cooler perks i've heard of
        
         | mrsimonbennett wrote:
         | Wikileaks released them in 2018
         | https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/wikileaks-publish...
         | 
         | Seems the URL is down however https://wikileaks.org/amazon-
         | atlas/
        
           | nixgeek wrote:
           | Amazon has also expanded massively since 2018 and the
           | additions are going to be equally secret in location terms,
           | probably.
        
         | electroly wrote:
         | Aside from the WikiLeaks mentioned by another poster, if you
         | pull up your favorite AWS Region's city in Google Maps
         | satellite view, you'll find the AWS facilities. It's the two or
         | more long, narrow, white buildings with the roof entirely
         | covered in AC units, generators in the parking lot, and a
         | transmission switching station next to it. You'll find several
         | clusters across the city; those are the availability zones.
         | They'll have nondescript code names whereas all the other
         | companies with data centers in the area have the company name
         | labeled.
         | 
         | For example, here's an AWS facility in us-east-1. Pairs of
         | narrow white buildings, ACs on top, generators in parking lot,
         | switching station next door, nondescript name: looks like an
         | AWS data center to me. (Thanks to the WikiLeaks doc I happen to
         | know for sure this really is AWS, but you can tell just from
         | the satellite.)
         | 
         | https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0271558,-77.4541392,698m/dat...
         | 
         | If you have the WikiLeaks document you can just google the
         | "IAD50" type codes and generally find them, but that's no fun.
        
           | jareklupinski wrote:
           | Clicking into the maps link, it seems like another strategy
           | is looking for names like "Performance Plaza" and
           | "Reliability Street" haha
        
       | nik736 wrote:
       | PeeringDB lists all facilities where DO is located (and some more
       | information): https://www.peeringdb.com/net/6494
        
         | mrsimonbennett wrote:
         | That shows you where they are doing peering for example Equinix
         | SG1 - Singapore and Equinix SG2 - Singapore. But DigitalOcean
         | only have one DC in singapore
        
       | paulgb wrote:
       | NYC2 is the Google NYC HQ (although Google bought the building,
       | there are still some non-Google tenants)
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | This may be common knowledge but the building, 111 8th Avenue,
         | has a very interesting history as a telecom center that well
         | predates Google.
         | 
         | I remember going to lots of fashionable dotcom parties in
         | offices there in the late 90's and early 2000's. The story at
         | the time was that it was the most redundantly connected
         | building in the city.
        
         | amarshall wrote:
         | And NYC1 and NYC3 are in NJ, perhaps unsurprisingly.
        
       | giuliomagnifico wrote:
       | Interesting, I'm using it on my VPS for my blog and self-hosted
       | analytics. For $12/months I have all and the service is very
       | good! Yesterday my blog was on the Front Page here on Hacker News
       | (about 13k visits in 4/5h) and the base VPS have held up.
       | 
       | Obviously both my two VPS are located in EU (Frankfurt) since I'm
       | Italian and I appreciate the GDPR.
        
         | parchley wrote:
         | You might want to read up on the Schrems II (2) case regarding
         | the GDPR and a US company.
        
           | shafyy wrote:
           | Yes, but this largely due to the US CLOUD act [0], and in my
           | opinion, rightfully so. The US needs to get their privacy
           | shit together.
           | 
           | Now, is it realistic that it will be illegal for EU providers
           | to use services that are owned by US companies? Very unlikely
           | that this will be the precedent (yes, I know, there are cases
           | where some courts deemed Google Analytics and Google Fonts
           | illegal).
           | 
           | However, I would personally also feel more comfortable using
           | services from countries where the government can't subpeona
           | all data at will.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act
        
           | calvinmorrison wrote:
           | What world are we in where a guy hosting a blog needs to read
           | about GDPR.
        
             | dtx1 wrote:
             | A world where that person might want to track users or sell
             | privacy intrusive advertisments on their blog.
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | I think realistically for a single person blog if you
               | don't reside in the EU you can just ignore the GPDR. What
               | are they gonna do, sue you?
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Even if you ignore the GDPR because it doesn't apply to
               | you it might be nice to know the company you're buying
               | hosting from has to comply with it.
        
               | sofixa wrote:
               | OP is Italian, so that's not an option.
               | 
               | And even if you don't reside in the EU, you can
               | reasonably believe in privacy and abide by the GDPR.
        
               | calvinmorrison wrote:
               | This is akin to me, at least to walking into a bar and
               | being upset there are requirements for shoes in shirt.
               | Nobody is forcing you on my website
        
               | dtx1 wrote:
               | No its akin to opening a bar without a sign on the
               | outside informing you that your every word and look will
               | be monitored, analysed and shared with big companies. But
               | that's the great thing about GDPR. It's our rights, they
               | apply wether you like it or not.
        
               | calvinmorrison wrote:
               | > they apply wether you like it or not.
               | 
               | The EU has ruled, now let them enforce it!
        
             | pavlov wrote:
             | It's a bit like in the 1960s and '70s when musicians
             | regularly ended up in serious tax debt because they
             | genuinely didn't realize that they should file proper
             | returns.
             | 
             | "I'm just a guy who shows up, they hand me some cash, and
             | then I go up on stage and play my guitar. Why do I need to
             | read up on accounting?"
             | 
             | Some software developers are in that state of naivete about
             | the data they collect about their users.
             | 
             | Even if it's just a blog, it may be collecting and storing
             | data about readers in many different ways: ads, tracking
             | pixels, comment logins, etc.
        
               | 1-6 wrote:
               | On a grand scheme, it's also naive to think that GDPR is
               | going to protect end-users. It's a good attempt but
               | really just a 'badge' that websites put on and a nuisance
               | for mobile users.
        
       | i_have_to_speak wrote:
       | > BLR1 - NTT Communications Mumbai DC6
       | 
       | Uh, pretty sure the Bangalore data center is not in Mumbai.
        
         | nik736 wrote:
         | They are located here: https://www.netmagicsolutions.com/data-
         | center/bengaluru/beng...
        
         | mrsimonbennett wrote:
         | Thanks I will look into it and update it :)
        
       | Hamuko wrote:
       | Can someone explain the rationale behind the location of data
       | centers like SFO2? My understanding has been that real estate in
       | cities, and especially in San Francisco, is limited and thus
       | expensive.
       | 
       | If someone tasked me with building a data center, I'd probably
       | start by looking at Google Maps and looking for the nearest big,
       | open field on the outskirts of a city.
        
         | quercusa wrote:
         | There's great value in being close to interconnect points
         | instead of needing to pull fiber from your field.
        
         | michaelt wrote:
         | 1. You want to be somewhere you can get multiple high-speed
         | fibre hook ups, and reliable power.
         | 
         | 2. Office buildings often have some lower-quality space (e.g.
         | areas with no windows) so you don't have to use super-premium
         | office space.
         | 
         | 3. Server racks are extremely dense, so they can make a lot of
         | revenue per square foot compared to a lot of land uses. Good
         | luck running a yoga studio that makes more revenue per square
         | foot.
         | 
         | Of course there are disadvantages to city data centres -
         | limited room to expand, and nobody's going to offer you subsidy
         | for "creating jobs".
        
         | kelp wrote:
         | Others have already mentioned that the connectivity in these
         | places is really good, and that's often why you go there.
         | 
         | The other reason is you have employees there who can go fix
         | things when they break. In the early days of Square we had
         | everything in a single datacenter in Mountain View and our
         | office was in San Francisco. There were times when something
         | broke in a bad enough way that someone had to drive to the
         | datacenter. It was a while before we built the scale and
         | redundancy to put a facility on the east cost, or in places
         | where we didn't often go.
         | 
         | But you're right, per square foot it's often quite expensive.
         | 
         | At a certain scale you still buy space in the city for
         | connectivity, but then you buy IP transit, or even dark fiber,
         | to connect to a cheaper and larger facility. That could be in
         | the same region, or it might be out in some farmland with cheap
         | power and good tax incentives.
         | 
         | We've seen lots of datacenters built in Washington and Oregon
         | because the electricity is famously cheap hydroelectric. Like
         | $0.02 - $0.03 per kWh. Last I looked a few (5-7?) years ago,
         | industrial power in the Bay Area was closer to $0.10 per kWh
         | and in Ashburn VA it was $0.08.
        
       | moondev wrote:
       | Interesting, so this indicates digitalocean doesn't operate their
       | own datacenters, but is a tenant in each location. Perhaps this
       | is common knowledge, but I assume AWS, GCP and Azure actually
       | operate their own? What other cloud providers truly operate their
       | own datacenters?
        
         | thejosh wrote:
         | I don't know of many with the cash to actually build and
         | operate their own DCs? I don't think it's financially viable to
         | do so, it's better to just rent part of one?
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | exabrial wrote:
         | Its pretty common knowledge, they talk about it on their blog
         | too. We're very happy with DO; Support is very easy to reach,
         | prices are reasonable, downtime has been acceptable for the
         | price.
         | 
         | I don't really see operating your own data center as a GOOD
         | thing. These professional data center providers serve 911 and
         | financial clients, while gcp/aws serve selfies and cat
         | pictures. The later considers their consumers cattle for the
         | slaughter, while these professional colo providers don't have
         | that conflict of interest.
        
           | chrisseaton wrote:
           | > These professional data center providers serve 911 and
           | financial clients, while gcp/aws serve selfies and cat
           | pictures.
           | 
           | You're ignorant - countless major serious businesses,
           | government organisations, and NGOs are running on AWS.
        
           | jvanderbot wrote:
           | laughs in NASA.
           | 
           | https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/tag/nasa/
           | 
           | First hand experience here.
        
           | seized wrote:
           | >while gcp/aws serve selfies and cat picture
           | 
           | That's an absurd stance and you should know better. It's
           | common knowledge that hugely important companies run on GCP
           | and AWS.
        
           | remus wrote:
           | > These professional data center providers serve 911 and
           | financial clients, while gcp/aws serve selfies and cat
           | pictures. The later considers their consumers cattle for the
           | slaughter, while these professional colo providers don't have
           | that conflict of interest.
           | 
           | It's kinda silly to suggest nothing important runs on
           | aws/gcp, there's plenty of huge businesses running on them,
           | with equally large legal departments ready to string
           | amazon/google up by the balls if they breach the terms of
           | their contracts around SLAs etc.
        
             | michaelt wrote:
             | AWS/GCP are pretty much as good as anyone reliablity-wise,
             | as long as your product is multi-AZ etc.
             | 
             | But SLAs are a joke - your business should be making $100
             | for every $1 you spend on compute, the fact they'll refund
             | your $1 is trivial compared to your $100 loss.
        
               | jrockway wrote:
               | I mean, they're an infrastructure company, not an
               | insurance company. If your power goes out, you don't get
               | compensated for the $1M deal you would have closed if
               | only your lights were on. If it's that important, you
               | have a backup.
               | 
               | I think the reality is that if stores are closed or
               | websites are down, people will just come back later.
               | Maybe not so much for ad serving (if you're bored at work
               | and Reddit is down, you're not going to make time after
               | work to go view ads there), but for actual businesses, it
               | might not be as big a problem as people would like to
               | imagine. But if it is, that's why you can spend millions
               | on a multi-cloud solution.
        
           | sofixa wrote:
           | A professional datacenter provider, Equinix, provided one
           | year notice for a datacenter closing (PA1). AWS would never
           | do anything like that to their customers.
        
             | jaywalk wrote:
             | Equinix has physical equipment belonging to their
             | customers. AWS doesn't. It's not even remotely similar.
        
             | oarsinsync wrote:
             | If I have equipment in a datacentre like Equinix, I likely
             | also have circuits (with minimum terms), network equipment
             | and servers (physical devices) that I need to manage and
             | consider how to physically relocate.
             | 
             | When I have a service with AWS, I have software I need to
             | relocate.
             | 
             | The needs and constraints of relocating software from 1000
             | servers is very very different to the needs and constraints
             | of relocating 25 racks of equipment.
             | 
             | Unless you have 1000 AWS 'pets' instead of 'cattle', in
             | which case you'll wish you could just lift-and-shift.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | AWS would probably just silently migrate you to wherever
             | the new datacenter is located.
        
         | notakio wrote:
         | A large number of cloud providers will likely have a blend of
         | their own datacenters as well as installations within other
         | providers' centers. I've been in that data center at 200 Paul
         | Ave in San Francisco, back in early 2010, and can confirm that
         | at the time, it definitely had multiple floors' worth of
         | racked, running equipment owned by Facebook, despite them
         | already having their own data centers at that point.
        
           | pbalau wrote:
           | Facebook uses quite a bit other providers DCs, for their
           | POPs. They fully own the DCs where they run the core
           | services.
        
         | nik736 wrote:
         | AWS is also using Interxion in Frankfurt, same campus as
         | DigitalOcean.
        
         | hotpotamus wrote:
         | I think the idea behind most cloud providers is that they
         | abstract details like that away.
        
         | hohl wrote:
         | None of them does, for most of their locations.
         | 
         | Owning real estate simply isn't their main business purpose and
         | has many downsides, especially in matters of scalability. The
         | main pro reason for owning them is cost. Owning the buildings
         | makes you less flexible but saves you money in the long-term.
         | 
         | One more point in favor of leasing is: the relevant
         | ,,neighbors" are just next door. If you own the real estate,
         | it's probably in the middle of nowhere, network-wise, and you
         | end up spending lots on laying fibre. Whereas with leased
         | space, other providers are likely on the same campus and all
         | you need is a few 100 meter or one km of fibre to reach the
         | next building or even just the next room. If you are small
         | enough, these savings on connectivity can even end up making it
         | cheaper to lease.
         | 
         | Might be a surprise to many, but it's primarily the budget
         | providers (Hetzner and OVH) that own their own buildings.
         | 
         | Most others just have long-term leases with whoever owns the
         | real estate (usually Equinix or Interxion/Digital Realities, as
         | they more or less own most big DCs around the globe).
         | 
         | Also, I guess many miss-understand what ,,not own the DC"
         | really means. These services aren't the kind of retail-style
         | colocation offers. Those providers rent entire rooms or even
         | buildings there, run their own infrastructure in them and
         | frequently have their own staff and offices on site too. These
         | lease agreements behave more like a usual office or warehouse
         | lease, not what some here might think.
        
         | kelp wrote:
         | TL;DR it depends on the use case, but I'd expect everyone in
         | the top 5-8 cloud providers to own and operate at least some of
         | their own facilities. But everyone is going to have some space
         | in a collocation facility.
         | 
         | There are various degrees of "operate your own datacenter" in
         | the datacenter market.
         | 
         | A lot of facilities on this list, like Equinix, are retail
         | datacenters. They have things like 24/7 "smart hands" who you
         | can call to go repair a server, replace or move a networking
         | cable, things like that. These are the most full service
         | options. They also offer various network connectivity products,
         | and if you are willing to pay for it, you could go as far as
         | ship them servers or a rack and have them do much of the
         | install for you. These are the most expensive options, but, at
         | least in the case of Equinix they also typically have the best
         | network connectivity. This is your typical collocation, or even
         | carrier hotel.
         | 
         | So if you go into an Equinix facility in a lot of markets you
         | will see _everyone_ with racks or cages full of equipment in
         | there. Though the biggest players are mostly going to use them
         | for network POPs and maybe something like a CDN node. So you
         | might see Amazon CloudFront equipment in there, but not much
         | else.
         | 
         | Often the thing to do is put your public internet connectivity,
         | peering, and perhaps backbone links in a well connected place
         | like this, but the bulk of your compute is in a much larger and
         | cheaper facility elsewhere.
         | 
         | There are also retail collocation facilities that aren't super
         | well connected (when I say well connected I mean you can get
         | access to 10s or 100s of providers just by being in that
         | facility) and those are a lot cheaper than Equinix, and often
         | full service. They tend to cater to smaller customers. Though
         | I've seen Akamai have a ton of racks in some surprisingly
         | crappy faculties.
         | 
         | Then DRT (Digital Reality Trust) operates more in the wholesale
         | datacenter market. They can rent cages for multiple racks, but
         | are even more used to renting out whole datahalls, so you have
         | dedicated space. In a lot of areas they can't really offer
         | things like 24/7 smart hands. They aren't going to handhold you
         | nearly as much, and space and power tends to be a lot cheaper,
         | but your minimum buy is going to be a lot larger. 20-100 racks
         | maybe?
         | 
         | CoreSite kind of straddles the line between Retail and
         | Wholesale. They offer a lot of full service stuff, but can also
         | rent you out a whole data hall or even building at a campus if
         | you need it. No one would ever confirm this, but I'm _pretty_
         | sure one of the big 3 cloud providers has a big chunk of, the
         | CoreSite Silicon Valley campus. If you search Google Maps for
         | core site silicon valley you 'll see a cluster of about 5
         | buildings, all labeled. One building right there is
         | suspiciously unlabeled, but if you do the the Satellite view,
         | it's clearly a datacenter.
         | 
         | Take it another step, and you have companies like Sabey who
         | offer a datacenter shell. Basically a building with power,
         | generators, etc, but you do everything else, or they customize
         | it to your specs and help operate it. Yet again cheaper per
         | unit of compute you are doing, but a lot high minimum spend to
         | make sense. You'll probably be measuring things in MW
         | (megawatts) before you are looking at something like this.
         | Sabey also sells to retail datacenters. I spent far too much
         | time at the Sabey Tukilla campus south of Seattle from 2009 -
         | 2011 in an Internap facility. I had to go through Sabey
         | security to get into the building, and then Internap security
         | to get into their space. Most everything inside that space was
         | taken care of by Internap (now seemingly branded INAP).
         | 
         | Then you have build and operate your own datacenter, which also
         | has various degrees. I don't know how it works now, but I know
         | a few years back AWS had (has) a TON of buildings in the
         | Ashburn Virginia area that are us-east-1. I was told by someone
         | who worked in datacenter real estate that they typically would
         | buy the land and get a datacenter shell built, then sell it to
         | another operator and lease it back. Then bring in all their own
         | power and compute.
         | 
         | I also heard that a few years ago when Oracle was building out
         | their cloud, they were just buying up all the retail datacenter
         | space they could so they could get to market faster. They were
         | paying an arm and a leg for it, but that was the fastest way to
         | get online.
         | 
         | So the economics of all this depend on what you are doing, why
         | you have the space, and how much actual equipment you need in
         | there. At smaller scales, say a CDN, or just networking
         | equipment, it often makes the most sense to just lease retail
         | space. At larger and larger scales it makes more and more sense
         | to in-house more of it.
         | 
         | I've never worked at one of the large cloud providers, but I'd
         | expect they have some smaller regions that are retail or
         | wholesale datacenters operated by another provider. But the
         | large regions are mostly owned and operated.
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | The hyperscale cloud providers are so big that they need to
         | self host to reduce power consumption. They also use alot of
         | custom designed parts to maximize cooling and power efficiency
         | -- at the cost of inflexibility. The overhead of being a tenant
         | in a multi-tenant data center is too much.
         | 
         | A smaller provider usually sees a financial advantage to lease
         | or build traditional datacenter space. "Smaller" can be quite
         | large... I worked with an enterprise team that built out a
         | large private data center circa 2015. Something on the order of
         | low six figure server count. At that time the dollars worked
         | out to build vs. cloud, mostly due to security control
         | requirements. YMMV.
        
           | nixgeek wrote:
           | "self host to reduce power consumption" isn't entirely
           | accurate, even within a leased environment at Equinix or
           | using a typical 'powered shell' provider like Sabey, the
           | larger providers will still be customizing heavily many
           | aspects downstream of the switchgear (and that's where some
           | but not all of these efficiencies can be located).
           | 
           | Tidbits from Peter Desantis' keynotes and before that James
           | Hamilton at re:Invent indicate that like Meta, Amazon doesn't
           | use 19" form-factor racks, has in-rack UPS solutions, DC
           | power delivery and a sled-based server architecture. All
           | these videos are on YouTube and the last 3-4 years (2018
           | onward) are really interesting and worth watching.
           | 
           | I'm short I'd guess Amazon and others partnerships with
           | Equinix (and equivalents) are about two things: time to
           | market, and some markets not being worth the investment [1]
           | to drop 3x 30MW facilities into.
           | 
           | [1]
           | https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/marketwatch/cutting-
           | da...
        
         | sofixa wrote:
         | Some AWS, Azure and GCP availability zones run out of third
         | party (at least Equinix) datacenters. It's easier and cheaper
         | for the more "niche" regions - nobody will use the Paris region
         | outside of customers in and around France, does it make sense
         | to build and operate 3 DCs for such a market? Apparently AWS
         | decided that it doesn't and they use Equinix PA2 and PA3, among
         | others, for that.
        
           | mkl95 wrote:
           | > nobody will use the Paris region outside of customers in
           | and around France, does it make sense to build and operate 3
           | DCs for such a market? Apparently AWS decided that it doesn't
           | and they use Equinix PA2 and PA3, among others, for that.
           | 
           | There may be something else to it... they are launching a
           | Spain region [1] this year with three data centers. My guess
           | is that it will be both heavily subsidized and much cheaper
           | to operate than a similar project in France.
           | 
           | [1] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/coming-soon-
           | aws-la...
        
             | smoe wrote:
             | I think it might also be, that if you are a company working
             | on public sector projects, servers being within the country
             | is required or preferred to win the contracts.
             | 
             | Haven't been in this space in a long time, but when I did
             | work on such projects in Switzerland mid 2000s having
             | anything outside the country would at least raise eyebrows.
             | Back then we had to run most things on-premise, but from
             | what I have heard, they opened up to the cloud to a degree.
             | 
             | See also the tags of the article "[...] Education,
             | Government, Healthcare, Nonprofit, Public Sector, [...]"
        
         | heipei wrote:
         | I believe AWS is also using Equinix in some locations.
        
         | EwanToo wrote:
         | The major providers use buildings owned by Equinix and others
         | where they need to.
         | 
         | Check out Amazon Atlas on wikileaks for some more information
         | 
         | https://wikileaks.org/amazon-atlas/document/
        
           | hhw wrote:
           | Equinix doesn't own many of the buildings they have
           | facilities in. Aside from Dallas Infomart, I don't really
           | know of any where they do, but I do know many buildings they
           | have facilities in that they don't own. Digital Realty much
           | more commonly owns carrier hotel buildings.
        
       | deltalima25 wrote:
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-08-16 23:02 UTC)