[HN Gopher] The Trouble with the Segway (2009)
___________________________________________________________________
The Trouble with the Segway (2009)
Author : gadtfly
Score : 45 points
Date : 2022-08-14 06:44 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.paulgraham.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.paulgraham.com)
| dylan604 wrote:
| And here I thought that it wasn't street legal and also not
| allowed on the sidewalks was what made the cities not allow them.
| But now, it's because people look like dorks? Got it.
| fezfight wrote:
| Segway ads showed middle aged people with helmets on. It was dead
| from the moment they made that choice.
| mkagenius wrote:
| Maybe a conscious choice for the Ad - as the steep price could
| only be affordable by them?
| solardev wrote:
| Lol, I once saw a group (troop? pack? murder?) of police
| standing on their Segways in formation, in uniform and lightly
| padded body armor. It was hard to look tough while they were
| all in neat little rows, balancing on antique motor scooters.
|
| All I could think was "whrrr whrr pew pew whrrrr whrrrrr"...
| like this photo:
| https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/segway_1.jpg
|
| It was impossible to take them seriously. Honestly, lol, I feel
| for them. Some higher up probably thought that was cheaper than
| horses and fancier than bikes, so... poor officers.
| twic wrote:
| I saw cops on Segways somewhere in Spain. I asked about it,
| and the reasoning behind it was that it would make it more
| likely that people would come up and talk to them. Initially
| to ask about the goofy vehicle, but then to start complaining
| about criminal activity they'd seen, or ask for advice, etc.
| Not being able to take them seriously was the crux of it!
| solardev wrote:
| That's a great take on policing!
| reaperducer wrote:
| I saw cops on Segways in two major American cities as
| recently as this month.
|
| They failed for the average consumer, but they served a
| purpose for other sectors.
|
| Fortunately, the economic downturn seem to have killed them
| off for group tours.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I grew up in Manchester, NH where the Segway was developed
| and I was visiting relatives a little after 2000 and it was
| so creepy to see cops crusing around on Segways in the
| parking lot of the abandoned Zayres store.
|
| One problem I encountered is that a Segway takes up all the
| space on a sidewalk with parking meters on it, pedestrians
| would have to step aside.
| agundy wrote:
| I think that's an interesting take! Segway's do seem much
| less maneuverable than a scooter. You can navigate small
| gaps that a Segway which is wider than shoulder width
| couldn't.
| zip1234 wrote:
| Why should cops look tough? I would rather a cop on a segway
| than sitting in a camaro.
| dsmmcken wrote:
| I think it had more to do with price then anything. Adjusted for
| inflation, it cost $7800 when launched. A motorcycle cost less.
| The technology of the time would have made it hard to get it much
| cheaper.
|
| Contrast with today, electric scooters are cheap and ubiquitous.
| They can be purchased for less than $300 and deliver on the same
| promise.
| Ekaros wrote:
| That price... You used to be able to get very reasonable used
| car for that. Nothing special, but full car...
| gadtfly wrote:
| Credit: https://nitter.it/torbenjess/status/1558402891030732801
|
| Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=730755 (2009)
| albeebe1 wrote:
| I wanted a segway the moment i first saw one, but the price was
| WAY beyond what i could afford. Thousands of dollars. It wasn't
| until a couple years ago i was able to buy a ninebot (hoverboard)
| and attach a 3rd party handle to make my dream come true for a
| few hundred dollars. I love tooling around my big yard on it, and
| the kids love it too.
| UmYeahNo wrote:
| IIRC there was also a ton of really hyperbolic prognostication
| when it was still called "Ginger" -- that it would change
| transportation as we know it, revolutionizing cities, etc etc
| etc. Then it was released and it was "just a scooter"[0]
|
| [0] https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/71902-ginger-
| unveiledits...
|
| And once it was "just a scooter", and it wouldn't really work all
| that well on city streets, on city sidewalks, you actually could
| fall off it, it would suck in winter, suck in snow, suck in rain,
| you couldn't carry it, and all the rest, it lost a ton of hype
| almost instantly. The self balancing trick didn't overcome the
| sheer obvious impracticality of it.
| kwanbix wrote:
| For me, the problem is that it was a 5000 dollars scooter which
| is about 8000 of today's dollars. Too expensive for my use
| case.
| paulgb wrote:
| > Try this thought experiment and it becomes clear: imagine
| something that worked like the Segway, but that you rode with one
| foot in front of the other, like a skateboard. That wouldn't seem
| nearly as uncool.
|
| This turned out to be prescient: I commuted to work today on a
| vehicle made by Segway (a Ninebot scooter). I'd argue that more
| of the appeal is that it lets you go as fast as bikes (without
| breaking a sweat), rather than the dorkiness, but I think the two
| are related. Admittedly I felt a bit dorky the first time I rode
| it, but now I'm convinced that it's the ultimate vehicle to have
| in a city.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| I'm not so sure it was the dork factor per se. It seems to me
| that Segway made it more about them and their technology and less
| about me.
|
| Put another way, it was all about its features and not nearly
| enough about benefits (to me).
|
| To often it was asked, "Why should I care?" or "What's in it for
| me?" and the answer(s) created more doubt than it resolved.
| entropicgravity wrote:
| The were two main problems with the launch of the Segway. First
| it was just too big and bulky for most sidewalks. And second it
| was way too expensive for a consumer product.
|
| The first part might have been overcome by launching it in Japan
| where sidewalks are much wider and multi-use (pedestrians and
| bicycles) is the norm and expected "rules of the sidewalk" are
| already in place. The cost though would still have been hard to
| swallow.
| ghaff wrote:
| Although my experience as a walker with bikes in Japan is that
| they'll try to navigate through a crowd of people that's almost
| too dense to walk through. And, while this may be what you mean
| by "rules of the sidewalk," I also found that I had to be
| _very_ conscious of making changes of direction without
| checking behind me lest a bike on the sidewalk clipped me. (It
| 's not like I'm going to randomly change direction in the US
| but I'm also not going to expect to be hit by a bicycle if I
| turn right.)
| GnarfGnarf wrote:
| One of Segway's problems is that it is an intruder on the
| sidewalk. You can picture Segway riders yelling "Coming through!"
| expecting pedestrians to part way for them. Like hell I'll step
| aside for your overpriced toy.
|
| And of course you can't ride it on the street. It has nowhere to
| go but warehouses and hangars.
| nonameiguess wrote:
| Aside from the price and lack of a real problem it solves, which
| have been mentioned, the segway also occupies an in-between space
| where you can't safely ride it on a road, but you're in
| everyone's way and annoying pedestrians if you use it on a
| sidewalk (plus, American cities are often pretty terrible about
| even having sidewalks in places where you might conceivably want
| to use something like this).
|
| I remember we featured this as one of the futuristic new tech
| pieces at Disneyland's Innoventions, which I used to work at from
| 2000 to 2002. Virtually nothing we featured there ever really
| took off. Aside from the segway, we had Sony's AIBO the robotic
| dog, which was cute and fun to work with, but real dogs are too
| awesome for any meaningful portion of the market to want to
| replace them with a robot. We had an Internet-connected toaster
| that printed a weather report on your toast. Someone clearly had
| the sense that paper news was on its way out but people largely
| don't want to be chained to their desk while eating breakfast,
| but did not anticipate that general-purpose computing devices
| would become so small and mobile as quickly as they did, and
| something as niche as only serving the weather would never have a
| place. We had very early flat-screen TVs back when plasma was the
| only option and they cost around ten grand for an entry model.
| Those _sort of_ eventually caught on when they were replaced with
| better and cheaper technologies that consumers could actually
| afford.
|
| I remember reps coming out and training us to use this for our
| showcases. It was novel and all, and the basic tech in terms of
| using weight-shift detection and gyroscopes seems like it should
| have good uses elsewhere, but I couldn't help but get the sense
| that, like the current top comment says, my body can already do
| this, and doesn't require extra storage space, charging, a place
| to dock, doesn't take up the space in a crowd of a 900 pounder.
| It's great technology, but the application makes no sense.
| ghaff wrote:
| There was (and is, albeit to perhaps a somewhat lesser degree)
| an issue with the fact that anything that isn't a car/motorbike
| or a pedestrian doesn't really have dedicated infrastructure in
| most cases. Segway focused pretty heavily on trying to get
| Segways allowed on sidewalks where they really didn't belong.
| We've seen the same problem with escooters on sidewalks and of
| course the issues of general lack of dedicated bike
| infrastructure are much discussed. But Segways were probably a
| particularly extreme example of a device that really didn't
| belong on either sidewalks or busy streets.
| kodah wrote:
| I do think personal electronic vehicles (PEV) do fill a need. I
| have a lot of friends that use these to replace traveling short
| distances with a car. Like Paul noted about his friends unicycle
| they don't get much shit for using them.
|
| The problem with Segways I think are analogous to when I travel
| on the sidewalk with my bike. You're too big for most sidewalks
| and moving fast, so people have to hurriedly shuffle to get out
| of your way. It's annoying and they respond crudely. Segway I
| think also attracts further attention because it's a known-
| expensive device. It doesn't occur to most people that I paid $2k
| for my bike but that doesn't stop cars from being passive
| aggressive for, again - taking real estate from them.
| moviewise wrote:
| There is a great documentary on Dean Kamen, the inventor of the
| Segway Personal Transporter, that I highly recommend:
| https://moviewise.wordpress.com/2015/12/07/slingshot/
|
| My two cents about the main reason the Segway didn't take off is
| that many people attacked it out of fear that it would take over
| sidewalks and put pedestrians in danger. It doesn't fit
| comfortably in a shared sidewalk, or bike lane, or road with all
| the other transportation options available. And the high cost
| made it impossible for it to become the dominant alternative
| transportation form. However, it works well in warehouses and for
| policing/security.
| vannevar wrote:
| The image was part of the problem, but any new technology has the
| barrier of looking weird when first introduced (VR anyone?). The
| real problem was that they were super expensive, and there were
| cheaper alternatives that did most of what a Segway did. Electric
| scooters ultimately co-opted the Segway vision because they were
| much cheaper, handled 90% of the use case, and had a large market
| of 20-somethings who had ridden Razor scooters into their teens,
| so it was a familiar experience.
| skybrian wrote:
| Or possibly e-bikes, which also seem to be popular and I think
| appeal more to older people?
| tunesmith wrote:
| I wonder if it's the same sort of problem as smart glasses, which
| were just too obvious-looking to gain traction. Like, if a Segway
| were slimmed down to basically fit a person profile, and were
| half the price, would it have been a completely different story?
| novantadue wrote:
| Its really silly. Its not for going long distances and it doesn't
| solve last mile problem, because well you could just walk 1 mile
| and wouldn't need to lug 200 pound monstrosity onto the bus. I
| think the bicycle will never be dethroned as the urban accessory
| vehicle.
| pklausler wrote:
| Especially the folding bicycle.
| solardev wrote:
| Have you ever lived in one of those cities with e-scooters? In
| just a few months, they were EVERYWHERE in a way that the
| Segways never were... buses, bike racks, sidewalks, canals,
| middle of the road...
|
| Lots of people who never biked used those scooters instead,
| because 1) they were heavily subsidized by careless VC money
| and 2) less sweat than biking. Bike commuting always seemed to
| me like a niche white thing, like urban hiking on wheels, but
| those scooters, man... EVERYWHERE.
| johnfernow wrote:
| > Bike commuting always seemed to me like a niche white thing
|
| Hopefully someone can find some more recent data on it, but
| as of 2009 [1] the demographics of cyclists in the US mostly
| matched up with the demographics of the overall population,
| with a couple of exceptions:
|
| white: - % of bike trips: 79% -
| share of population: 75%
|
| black: - % of bike trips: 10% -
| share of population: 12%
|
| hispanic: - % of bike trips: 8% -
| share of population: 15%
|
| asian: - % of bike trips: 3% -
| share of population: 4%
|
| So only hispanics were notably underrepresented, with white,
| black and asian people being pretty close to their share of
| the population, and while there was a minor
| overrepresentation of white people at the time, it was
| trending toward racial parity (in comparison to 2001 data),
| and over a decade later I wouldn't be surprised if it's even
| closer.
|
| For income level, the poorest quartile was overrepresented
| (31%), but the other three quartiles were pretty close (21%,
| 23%, 25%).
|
| So with cycling being far less common in the US compared to
| other countries with safer infrastructure (0.6% of people
| bike to work in the US [2] compared to 27% in the Netherlands
| [3]), you're not going to see many cyclists, and since white
| people make up a large percentage of the population, if you
| see a cyclist, there's a fair chance that they'll be white.
| But as the country becomes more diverse (and hopefully more
| people begin cycling to work), hopefully that perception will
| fade, and hopefully the trend toward racial parity for
| cycling continues.
|
| 1. https://grist.org/biking/2011-04-06-race-class-and-the-
| demog...
|
| 2. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/05/younger-
| worke...
|
| 3. https://www.government.nl/binaries/government/documenten/r
| ep...
|
| (edit: formatting)
| solardev wrote:
| Interesting stats, thanks for sharing!
| dinkblam wrote:
| > Someone riding a Segway looks like a dork.
|
| Someone riding a Standup-paddle looks like a mega-dork, yet it is
| a _massive_ success (at least in Europe).
| probably_wrong wrote:
| The Segway cruised so the electric scooter could race.
| pixelmonkey wrote:
| It's a quirky take. I don't think it was all about optics, though
| the weird optics certainly didn't help adoption.
|
| The real reason the Segway didn't take off, in my opinion, is
| that it didn't solve any real problem.
|
| Walking isn't hard for most people; in fact, for most people,
| walking is among the most pleasant human activities. It's not
| particularly fast, but when you're walking somewhere, you aren't
| that concerned about speed. By being slow, it lets you do other
| things easily -- talk, listen to music, take in the sights and
| sounds. No one needed "faster automated walking".
|
| What's more, using a Segway to "walk fast" somewhere removes
| _all_ of the benefits of walking, except the "getting from point
| A to point B" part. So it's actually worse than the thing it
| purports to improve. It removes the health benefit; the idle
| mindlessness of the task (mindless Segway riding is too
| dangerous); it's more expensive; and, you have to worry about
| charging, parking, and helmets.
|
| The reason e-bikes are now taking off, by contrast, is that they
| make perfect sense and solve a real problem. Many people enjoy
| biking, but some people don't enjoy the strenuous parts of
| mechanical/manual biking: for example, biking up hills. Further,
| when you're biking, you usually do care about covering some
| amount of distance in some amount of time, thus an e-bike helps
| with that. Many modern e-bike models (like the Bosch, Blix, etc.)
| combine all the benefits of a normal bike with the additional
| benefit that a battery provides (making it easier to cover longer
| distances with limited stamina/endurance/practice). The e-bike is
| what the Segway should have been -- it solves a real problem.
| amalcon wrote:
| Yeah, people will put up with a _lot_ of "looking silly" for
| something that solves a real problem. Umbrellas arguably look
| silly, but it's well worth it to not be drenched. I used to be
| told I looked dorky for wearing a bicycle helmet, but the world
| (or at least my region) seems to have come around to the idea
| that avoiding brain damage is a pretty high upside.
|
| Spending a substantial amount of money and going to the effort
| of storing a large object just to be able to get someplace
| faster (but still not as fast as driving), just isn't worth it
| to most people.
| ffhhj wrote:
| > walking is among the most pleasant human activities
|
| Exactly. An anecdote: babies have a "transportation mode" which
| in an evolutionary behaviour. I used to carry my two daughters
| and walk around the house for 1 hour with low light (no Lego's
| on the floor, no darkness, no stairs), there is human contact,
| it's good exercise for parents, even relaxation and meditation,
| and babies get calm and sleep well.
| eadmund wrote:
| > What's more, using a Segway to "walk fast" somewhere removes
| all of the benefits of walking, except the "getting from point
| A to point B" part. So it's actually worse than the thing it
| purports to improve. It removes the health benefit; the idle
| mindlessness of the task (mindless Segway riding is too
| dangerous); it's more expensive; and, you have to worry about
| charging, parking, and helmets.
|
| Agreed with everything except the helmets part. The original
| Segways maxed out at 10 mph (slower than some folks run!),
| while it looks like the current model is 121/2 mph. There is no
| particular need for a helmet at that low a speed -- it's almost
| purely superstition.
|
| I kinda feel like I personally would prefer a Segway to an
| e-bike, but I haven't ridden either. Kind of feels like a
| Segway would encourage one to keep one's eyes up and pay
| attention to one's surroundings more.
| tjoff wrote:
| What? You do absolutely need a helmet at those speeds.
| Falling from a Segway is terrifying.
|
| Where I live electric scooters aren't allowed to go faster
| than that anyway and head-injuries has skyrocketed.
|
| Add to that that a Segway is even worse than a scooter for
| safety since they are much higher.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Speed has relatively little do with potential risk. Only
| scenario I can think of is bicycle and amateurishly locking
| up front break.
| s_dev wrote:
| Surely eScooters are more comparable to Segway than eBikes. Why
| are they taking off when Segway didn't?
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Segway cost $5k early on, which impeded adoption. Then it
| gained an image as a device for tourists and obese cops
| (deserved or not, that was the image in the 00s). So even
| when prices dropped, it wasn't going to be readily adopted by
| the masses. Electric scooters are electric versions of a
| thing many people (in the US, not sure about other countries)
| had used since their childhood. The worst image they carried
| was that of youthfulness, and maybe the dickish college
| students who stashed their foldable scooter in the desk next
| to them. And the cost was _much_ lower _much_ earlier in
| their life, plus not tied to a single brand or manufacturer.
| Which is probably one of the reasons that their price was
| lower (competition is helpful).
| jollyllama wrote:
| The social cost of looking like a dork is higher than the
| social cost of riding a child's conveyance (razor-style
| scooter). The childishness of the scooter also makes it less
| intimidating to people.
| shakna wrote:
| eScooters do many things that the Segway didn't:
|
| + Have a reasonable price point. Hundreds, versus thousands.
|
| + Operates in the wet. Including the very wet, like hail. You
| can even test it offroad without necessarily needing to use
| the offroad equipment.
|
| + Familiarity. You don't need to learn to ride them, because
| it was likely you'd already ridden something similar.
|
| + It's easy to safely fall, when you inevitably make a
| mistake. You may not even hit the ground.
|
| + You can go a reasonable speed - you're not looking to
| replace walking, but jogging.
|
| + More familiarity. The imagery of riding a scooter is more
| of playing around and having fun, than dorkyness or
| awkwardness, because the device looks unfamiliar and like a
| new experience. Which makes you more likely to try it, at
| least once. More people trying it "just once" the more no one
| notices if you pick it up, because it becomes common.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| > Familiarity. You don't need to learn to ride them,
| because it was likely you'd already ridden something
| similar.
|
| Really? I cannot ride a two-wheeled scooter (electric or
| otherwise) for the life of me. I make it about 4 feet
| before falling over. I think my record distance is 10 feet.
| ghaff wrote:
| I wouldn't even think of trying to ride one. I didn't
| grow up riding bikes (narrow country lanes) and still
| wouldn't think of riding a bike in traffic.
| rich_sasha wrote:
| Scooters also fit better with road patterns. Segways are
| too big, perhaps too fast for the pavements (certainly at
| 10 mph). But way too slow for the road.
|
| Escooters move at similar speeds to bikes so fit in the
| same niche. They are also narrower, and this matters on
| roads.
| michaelt wrote:
| Segways were just plain too expensive - the $5000 price of a
| Segway is 10-20x the price of modern e-scooters.
|
| And that was expensive enough that some people interpreted
| segway ownership as 'conspicuous consumption', which some
| people don't like.
| [deleted]
| q-big wrote:
| > Why are they taking off when Segway didn't?
|
| Price.
|
| For renting scooters, there comes in addition that the
| renting price is often subsidized by VC money.
| amelius wrote:
| > walking is among the most pleasant human activities
|
| Yes. And waiting in a line can be much more tiring than just
| walking.
| SamBam wrote:
| > The real reason the Segway didn't take off, in my opinion, is
| that it didn't solve any real problem.
|
| This can't be the answer, since it doesn't explain the huge
| explosion in non-bike forms of electric transportations.
|
| From scooters to electric skateboards to hoverboards to a
| number of single-wheeled designs. These things are absolutely
| ubiquitous in any major city, US or Europe, right now.
|
| These all fit in the same practical niche as a Segway, yet are
| cheaper and cooler-looking.
| jandrese wrote:
| Segway failed for one reason and one reason only: It was
| priced way outside of what people would accept for a scooter.
| Beyond the fact that they were simply too expensive for
| people to buy, it also gave them a reputation as a bougie
| display of wealth, which makes people hate them even more.
|
| All of these pay as you go scooter services solved the cost
| problem and are everywhere now, in exactly the same niche
| that Dean Kamen envisioned, minus cities redesigning
| themselves around scooters of course.
| amalcon wrote:
| For what it's worth, the "cities redesigning themselves
| around them" thing actually came from a news report about
| some guy's book about Kamen. As far as I can tell he never
| said that himself.
| jandrese wrote:
| Maybe not, but it certainly sounds plausible given the
| level of hype Mr. Kamen had around the project prior to
| its announcement. I remember it being a total media
| circus.
|
| One thing I had completely forgotten is how mediocre the
| specs were on the first generation Segways. Top speed of
| 17mph, but realistically more like 12. Range: up to 17
| miles. Charge time: 10 hours. MSRP: $4,500.
|
| This is also one of those rare consumer products with
| dubious distinction of killing its own creator.
| xsmasher wrote:
| Just so no one is confused - inventor Dean Kamen is still
| alive, but CEO Jimi Heselden who bought Segway in 2009
| died.
| barnabee wrote:
| Some cities are definitely and quite rapidly redesigning
| themselves around bikes/ebikes/scooters et al. (aka
| [electric] micromobility).
| random314 wrote:
| Any example cities?
| bjelkeman-again wrote:
| Many European cities are expanding their bike paths quite
| extensively. As an example, this page in Swedish,
| published by the local government of Stockholm, has a map
| of the bike path network.
|
| https://cykla.stockholm/cykelnat/
| bluGill wrote:
| Even little des moines is greatly building bike
| infrastructure. Though i wouldn't call this designing
| around bikes. Bikes are clearly for going bar hopping on
| Saturday, not for any serious business dealings. Though
| the side effect of all these paths is a few die hards do
| real business on bikes.
| ghaff wrote:
| >These things are absolutely ubiquitous in any major city, US
| or Europe, right now.
|
| Ubiquitous is doing a lot of work there. In the Northeast US,
| I've probably seen an increase in bikes given some dedicated
| bike lanes but I rarely see anything else.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| > From scooters to electric skateboards to hoverboards to a
| number of single-wheeled designs. These things are absolutely
| ubiquitous
|
| These have all declined a lot from our view in Southern
| California, seeing a lot fewer of them after the peak in...
| 2018 was it?
|
| Electric bikes are still increasing slowly but surely every
| year as the price comes down.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I should look around more, but I don't think I see too many
| of non rental ones being used.
| ghaff wrote:
| I haven't travelled as much as I did pre-pandemic. But my
| sense is that, even in US cities where escooters were big
| when they first came out, you don't see them a lot any
| more. And things like hoverboards are pretty niche--again
| based on what I've seen.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| Maybe if Segway had dropped hundreds of segways into every
| city to rent it would have taken off.
| bornfreddy wrote:
| Well, they are cheaper, cooler looking and _faster_ (scooters
| at least). They are way more useful than Segway ever was.
| calt wrote:
| Most importantly, smaller. Segways are Huge.
| brk wrote:
| Not only did it fail to solve a basic problem, it was WILDLY
| overhyped pre-launch. Nothing short of a $500 consumer-friendly
| jetpack was going to meet the expectations set.
|
| IME, when you come out of the gate not even remotely hitting
| the expectations that you yourself set on a product launch it
| takes a very very long time to recover from that setback. If
| you at least solve real problems at some kind of palatable
| price point you can make up some of that loss, but when you
| have and expensive solution looking for a problem, not so much.
|
| The Segway had many issues, IMO one of the larger ones was that
| it was not that suitable for use in inclement weather. You
| would think a company based in NH would get this. They were
| also cumbersome to move around, and didn't even have a
| kickstand initially, so the matter of where/how you park the
| thing when not is use just added to the awkwardness of the
| whole thing.
| AdamH12113 wrote:
| It is impossible to overstate just how much the Segway (then
| called "Ginger" or "IT") was hyped up during its secret
| development period. Bob Metcalfe said it would be bigger than
| the internet[1]. Steve Jobs said it would be bigger than the
| PC, and that cities would be redesigned around it[2]. Jeff
| Bezos was on board[3]. Dean Kamen, the inventor, was going to
| be richer than Bill Gates[4]. No one knew what the big deal
| was going to be, but it had to be something incredible with
| all those names behind it.
|
| And then the announcement came, and it turned out to be a
| glorified electric scooter with a silly name and a $5,000
| price tag.
|
| Strangely, none of the big names involved seemed to suffer
| any reputational blowback for what now seems like outright
| lying in service of someone else's hype campaign.
|
| [1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/2801380/dean-kamen-
| s-b...
|
| [2]
| https://www.economist.com/taxonomy/term/34/14587780?page=293
|
| [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/04/engineering
| .hi...
|
| [4]
| https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2001/01/27/ginger-
| in...
| dekhn wrote:
| I recall this because I was reading about it on slashdot
| during the "secret development period". Later I worked with
| a guy who rode one around and everybody thought he looked
| like a pompous ass on it.
| gjvc wrote:
| excellent summary. how those people got roped in to give
| those opinions on the record, i'll never know.
| tdeck wrote:
| I remember this as a kid, boosters talked about the Segway
| the way they talked about Google Wave - something almost
| unexplainably amazing and transformative. There's even an
| onion video making fun of this years later:
|
| "Do You Remember Life Before The Segway"
|
| https://www.theonion.com/in-the-know-do-you-remember-life-
| be...
| bluejekyll wrote:
| One big thing to add about bikes and ebikes even more, is they
| can carry stuff, way more than a Segway could (or scooter).
| With the cargo models, they can replace a car for major trips
| to the grocery store.
|
| I think this utilitarian feature of the bike is the biggest
| reason the bike is taking off.
| Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote:
| It solved the problem where distances are long enough that
| walking would take too long, but short enough that its seems a
| waste to take a car. For example 1 mile.
| ghaff wrote:
| One mile takes maybe 20 minutes to walk? Call it 30. And I'm
| going to deal with a big, expensive device to trim that down
| to 15? I'm not going to take a car for that distance either
| unless there isn't decent walking infrastructure. And, if
| there isn't, I'm not going to take a Segway either.
| Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote:
| Well good on you that you have all that extra time that
| halving the commute time isn't worth it. Is this the only
| trip that day? What if there are many?
| Mockapapella wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30139615
|
| Some prior discussion from a submission I made on the segway a
| few months ago
| [deleted]
| startupdiscuss wrote:
| Three points:
|
| (1) I don't think this is the reason it did not work. There are
| lots of things that make you look like a dork -- PCs, airpods etc
| -- but they took off like rocketships (speaking as someone who
| adopted these dork items whole heartedly).
|
| (2) I agree it is a mystery why Segways didn't work, but I think
| it remains an unsolved mystery.
|
| (3) We have more information now that we have lime and other
| similar items available. (*)
|
| (*) This is actually a point in PG's favor because the lime's are
| skateboard inspired. But they're not undorky.
| eadmund wrote:
| > There are lots of things that make you look like a dork --
| PCs, airpods etc
|
| It still blows my mind that actual adults wear AirPods in
| public. Sometimes actual professional adults who want to be
| taken seriously (e.g. in business meetings). There is just no
| way for someone to wear AirPods and look fashionable.
| inb4_cancelled wrote:
| Where do you live? AirPods are completely transparent to me,
| i.e. I don't even consciously notice if a person is wearing
| them (just like I don't really notice earrings or watches).
| zamalek wrote:
| > other similar items available
|
| We have a 1:1 skateboard Segway: the Onewheel. It healthily
| solves the dorky problem, and then some. Still, this doesn't
| seem to be a perfect solution because, in the face of one of
| the most consumer-hostile manufacturers around, people are
| turning to dorkier alternatives (such as EUCs).
|
| Although few things look as dorky as a Segway, especially when
| tourists are driving them around single-file.
| ars wrote:
| When they first came out I wanted one to commute to work with it.
|
| Then I saw the price. And that was the end of that.
|
| $7,000 to $10,000 for one - you can buy a car, and pay for years
| worth of gas for that much.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Segway's control of patents let them (for a while) keep similar
| but better form factors off the market. Every so often you find
| a case where patents clearly hold back innovation, such as pre-
| WWI aviation, and the Segway is one of them.
| foobarian wrote:
| It's not that clear cut to me. Without patents, maybe
| inventors -- both original and follow-on -- would have never
| bothered investing so much time and treasure, and we would
| have been behind on average. This is a pretty explicit
| feature of the patent system. The short delay due to the
| temporary monopoly is not that important in the grand scheme
| of things.
| ars wrote:
| That's true, but there is no doubt that Segway held back
| electric vehicle commuting for 2 decades.
|
| Imagine how much less traffic and emissions there would be
| if Segway had put a reasonable price on their product.
| bluescrn wrote:
| They could have done even better if they'd also put one
| wheel in front of the other instead of side-by-side...
| jpm_sd wrote:
| > the company was itself a kind of Segway. It was too easy for
| them; they were too successful raising money.
|
| See also: Google X
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