[HN Gopher] Commercial Surveillance and Data Security Rulemaking
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       Commercial Surveillance and Data Security Rulemaking
        
       Author : mooreds
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2022-08-15 12:18 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ftc.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ftc.gov)
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | _Everyone_ wants this -- well, everyone except the online-
       | advertising industrial complex, whose profits depend on being
       | able to collect and sell people 's data without having to worry
       | too much about the societal costs.
       | 
       | The online-advertising industrial complex won't want to give up
       | its sweetheart deal: private gains with public costs. Going
       | forward, I'd expect to see a big PR/lobbying fight about this,
       | possibly including astroturfing and even personal attacks on Lina
       | Khan.
       | 
       | If you care about this, advocate now.
        
       | travisporter wrote:
       | The cynic in me says half the country will scoff at using
       | regulations.gov to submit anything. Might as well be
       | communist.gov
        
       | mooreds wrote:
       | There is also a public forum on Sep 8: https://www.ftc.gov/news-
       | events/events/2022/09/commercial-su...
        
       | cowpig wrote:
       | Interested to hear this community's thoughts on GDPR so far. Has
       | it served its intended purpose? What ideas, if any, should be
       | imported to the US?
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | It needs to be opt-in, and honor automatic opt-in / opt-out
         | signals.
         | 
         | In particular, they should be forced to honor the HTTP "do not
         | track" header.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | GDPR is great on paper but suffers from a significant lack of
         | enforcement, so a lot of malicious actors willingly breach it
         | or practice fake compliance (intentionally obnoxious consent
         | flows that are hard/impossible to actually decline even though
         | the law requires it to be as easy as accepting).
        
       | krono wrote:
       | Good to get some official debate going on this.
       | 
       | Crash reports, error events, feature flags, installation
       | telemetry, however convenient it is to have this information,
       | none of it is essential.
       | 
       | The services that are often used to implement these things
       | (sentry, segment, launchdarkly, etc. etc.) - and then in
       | particular the APIs and the "all-batteries-included" SDKs they
       | usually offer, make it very easy to collect a much wider array of
       | data beyond these faux essentials at, essentially, the flick of a
       | switch. And, besides, whose to say these services don't and/or
       | won't abuse these capabilities?
       | 
       | I hope for this official debate to push back a bit against the
       | normalization of this.
        
         | closeparen wrote:
         | Consumer protection encompasses reliability and change
         | management as well as privacy. Tossing software out into the
         | world with no idea if it's working and no ability to mitigate
         | bugs could, in a more regulated climate, come to be seen as a
         | kind of software engineering malpractice or negligence.
         | Telemetry and feature flagging are an essential part of my
         | employer's compliance story with at least one of its EU
         | regulators.
        
       | pbronez wrote:
       | This is a really important area for the policy community to
       | address. We have an opportunity to forge a third way, learning
       | from both Europe's well-intentioned efforts and China's hybrid
       | capitalism surveillance state. Technologies like end-to-end
       | encryption, differential privacy, and secure multi-party
       | computation create opportunities for systems that deliver the
       | benefits of the crowd while respecting individual autonomy and
       | privacy much better than current solutions.
       | 
       | If we get this right, it will be a win for both individuals and
       | businesses.
        
       | antonymy wrote:
       | A surprising and welcome move by the FTC. Wish they'd hold
       | something like this for how telecoms are regulated.
        
       | howmayiannoyyou wrote:
       | Advocate now. This is arguably the most important regulation
       | review the USGOV will conduct in the next few years, here's why:
       | 
       | - It is a national security issue. Foreign actors can exploit
       | this data to perform highly targeted attacks on individuals at
       | scale.
       | 
       | - It will be an issue for you as a senior. We will all get old,
       | and our ability to detect, ignore and counter misuses of this
       | data declines with age.
       | 
       | - Its an anti-monopoly issue. Much of this data is concentrated
       | and sequestered in large companies. Small businesses, responsible
       | for most employment in the US, cannot afford and is not aware of
       | the availability of this data.
       | 
       | - Privacy should be a human right. I know there is push-back to
       | this argument, but seniors aside, many young adults (and some
       | plain old adults) simply are not aware and not capable of
       | understanding the data they are giving up, how it is (mis)used,
       | and what that means for them.
       | 
       | I hope all of us will engage with this form and provide comments.
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | >> Much of this data is concentrated and sequestered in large
         | companies.
         | 
         | Even the claimed use "advertising" does not require data
         | collection. It probably does make advertising more efficient,
         | but that isn't a reason to allow it. Once collected it does
         | tend to get aggregated in a large player, so most playing the
         | game do not win anyway.
         | 
         | I'd prefer they ban this data collection (and certainly its
         | transfer or sale) but I fear they just want to "regulate" it.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Be sure to write useful comments. Your opinion ("I think
         | Bluetooth beacons are bullshit") is much less useful than
         | specific, actionable information:
         | 
         | I have noticed the widespread use of Bluetooth beacons and
         | commercial license plate cameras in my area. In addition to
         | causing me to worry that the local grocery store is price-
         | discriminating against people that do not own cars, some such
         | businesses are adjacent to health clinics, and certainly
         | inadvertently harvest HIPAA protected information about the
         | appointment schedules of those clinics. In addition to this,
         | in-store beacons other technologies, such as shopping cart RFID
         | tags, allow marketers that work with grocery stores to infer
         | health information by tracking patients as they move about
         | inside a store. This information could then be used by
         | insurance companies to unfairly adjust premiums, or by
         | pharmaceutical marketers to better-target ads for frequently-
         | abused prescription drugs.
         | 
         | Health care is only one of many industries likely to abuse the
         | information provided by passive surveillance systems. It is
         | technologically infeasible to ensure such systems are used
         | responsibly and legally.
         | 
         | The FTC regulates technologies such as stalkerware apps, and
         | has implemented anti-bait-and-switch marketing rules in other
         | industries. Similarly, it provides guidance for responsible use
         | of IP cameras. For these reasons, I think it would be well
         | within your authority to institute wholesale bans of Bluetooth
         | beacons and regulation of commercial license plate cameras that
         | feed into data aggregation infrastructure.
        
           | jffry wrote:
           | I think you replied to the wrong comment when you wrote this,
           | as the parent comment didn't mention bluetooth?
        
             | knappe wrote:
             | Bluetooth beacons are used to collect data. Hence the
             | mention of them for commercial surveillance.
        
         | kodah wrote:
         | I'm honestly pleasantly surprised that "commercial
         | surveillance" is the term they're using. You're also absolutely
         | right, the time to lay the case is now.
        
           | ColinHayhurst wrote:
           | Also pleasantly surprised. Rebecca Slaughter used the term
           | surveillance-economy previously when advocating for data
           | minimization, saying that this "should mean that companies
           | collect only the information necessary to provide consumers
           | with the service or product they actually request and use the
           | data they collect only to provide that service or product."
           | 
           | It's a principle that we use in making our own design
           | choices, but we are an outlier, for now.
           | 
           | Anyway, interesting starter questions include:
           | 
           | 1. Has X company gone beyond data minimisation?
           | 
           | 2. If so, in what ways is this done?
           | 
           | 3. To what extent does this amount to commercial
           | surveillance?
           | 
           | 4. What are the known and potential consumer harms of this
           | commercial surveillance?
           | 
           | 5. What problems can be solved, in society and the economy,
           | with data minimisation as the default?
        
         | hertzrat wrote:
         | I wish Canada would do a similar call for comments
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | Won't happen until the government controls the telecoms
           | instead of the other way around.
        
           | lettergram wrote:
           | To be fair, they typically ignore all the comments. Claim
           | they are bots or that they lost them or what have you...
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | It depends on who appointed the people reading the
             | comments. I suspect we have some Biden and Obama people in
             | at the moment.
             | 
             | Also, there are people in these organizations that have
             | made a career of working at the FTC because they believe in
             | its mission. They will also be involved in the process.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | > a national security issue
         | 
         | like for example, all of the applications for national security
         | status managed by the State Department ?
         | 
         | Why do citizens get tracked while buying bread, when actual
         | National Security is exploited from afar? Where is the
         | accountability for what has already transpired?
        
           | howmayiannoyyou wrote:
           | Dude, what are you smoking? I'm talking DNA data collected by
           | Ancestry. I'm thinking behavioral data ala Tik Tok. Not sure
           | what the US Dept of State has to do with this, especially
           | since 99% of their mission is overseas engagement as opposed
           | to domestic. If you're referring to collection on foreign
           | citizens, well no joy to be had with the FTC. Lobby your
           | foreign government to engage with USGOV on treaty obligations
           | that sync privacy... shouldn't take more than 30 years to get
           | that done.
        
             | mistrial9 wrote:
             | * The FTC is the US Federal Agency here, edit, my armchair
             | error
             | 
             | * FTC rules review will discuss ... more reading on the
             | agenda here
             | 
             | * a post (above) claims that this is a "national security
             | issue" as in, bad foreign agents might track citizens here
             | 
             | * But wait, actual national security is held in trust with
             | the Federal Government, and has provably failed to protect
             | itself against serious compromise, as mentioned in my reply
             | 
             | * But wait again, US citizens are getting no reprieve in
             | being relentlessly tracked for "ads" while some claim there
             | is a national security issue so it is important that we
             | engage in this feedback
             | 
             | * Where is the accountability in Federal Government for
             | real, actual National Security? and why are citizens being
             | tracked doing daily things, in the first place?
             | 
             | no "dude"
        
               | howmayiannoyyou wrote:
               | Dude... you are conflating the national security risks
               | from foreign actors accessing US citizen privacy data,
               | with your concern about the risks of domestic
               | surveillance. Your comment is off-topic to mine and
               | therefore whiney and immature.
               | 
               | > actual national security is held in trust with the
               | Federal Government, and has provably failed to protect
               | itself against serious compromise, as mentioned in my
               | reply
               | 
               | Nat Sec folks have to be right all the time (impossible).
               | Threats only have to get it right once. There have been
               | failures and there will be more. If you think not hearing
               | about successes means they aren't commonplace, then too
               | bad for you that you never worked in Nat Sec or held a
               | clearance. A lot of bad people have been taken off the
               | playing field by USGOV and more will follow. But keep
               | judging something you have no personal experience with.
        
               | mistrial9 wrote:
               | exactly - apologist for security state; anyone who
               | criticizes "must be high" .. I could smell it; thx for
               | the direct confirmation
               | 
               | no "dude"
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | FCC != FTC.
               | 
               | Also, the government is not a monolith. In particular,
               | note that they're targeting commercial surveillance, and
               | the biggest surveillance companies on earth have ties to
               | other parts of the executive branch.
        
               | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2022-08-15 23:01 UTC)