[HN Gopher] The credit score system is broken, critics say
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       The credit score system is broken, critics say
        
       Author : LinuxBender
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2022-08-14 16:32 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lite.cnn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lite.cnn.com)
        
       | josephcsible wrote:
       | Distinguish the concept of a credit score system with the
       | particular implementation of one used in the US today. If your
       | friend Bob, who's never asked to borrow money from you before,
       | asked to borrow $100 from you today and promised he'd pay it back
       | in a week, what would your answer be? Would your answer change if
       | you knew that last month, he said the same thing to 6 of his
       | other friends and never paid any of them back? If that would make
       | you tell him no, then you do support the concept of a credit
       | score system. There's definitely a lot of problems with our
       | current credit score system, but it's way less bad than not
       | having one at all, in a world where almost everyone needs to
       | borrow money to be able to buy a house or car.
        
         | p49k wrote:
         | There's a difference between credit scoring and credit
         | reporting.
         | 
         | Credit scoring refers to the act of reducing the entirety of
         | one's credit history to a single number using an algorithm.
         | 
         | Few people are opposed to credit histories being available to
         | potential lenders. However many find the scoring system to be
         | unnecessary and flawed. Lenders could just look at the actual
         | credit history to make a decision.
        
       | zxcvbn4038 wrote:
       | I've done all of the things that all of the blogs suggest to keep
       | a decent credit score, but my score is extremely volatile and
       | bounces around in a 200 point range month to month which never
       | made sense to me, but every avenue of complaint fell flat. Then
       | about three years ago I got a rejection letter that said one of
       | the credit bureaus had me categorized as someone likely to run up
       | a good score then bust it out (I forget the term they used) - no
       | history of me doing this but apparently that's my profile. So if
       | I carry any balance on any card my score immediately drops 196
       | points, if I pay it off the next month my score jumps 196 points.
       | That sawtooth pattern has been the norm for about a decade. That
       | doesn't match up with anything that I've read about so it seems
       | the credit bureaus actually have a specific policy just for me.
       | Maybe I'm living in the wrong neighborhood, or maybe I'm guilty
       | by association with somebody, who really knows. It doesn't really
       | stop me from doing anything, if I want a new credit line I just
       | wait until the month when my score is up 196 points, but it might
       | be a problem if I was ever in a situation where I could not wait
       | 8 weeks - like if I'm buying a house or need a car.
        
         | s1artibartfast wrote:
         | Really interesting. Mine has been withing 5 or ten points for
         | 10 years across many zipcodes. The only exception was when I
         | let a bill go to collections and it dropped ~30 pts and slowly
         | recover over a year. Could it have to do with your % credit
         | utilization when you leave a run a balance. If you up your CC
         | limit to 20x your balance, your issue may go away.
        
       | Cypher wrote:
        
       | dangus wrote:
       | I don't know that the article did a great job making its case
       | beyond using dramatic language.
       | 
       | I'm sure a non-zero number of errors are expected in any system
       | like this that depends on various institutions reporting to the
       | credit bureaus on the status of payments.
       | 
       | Numbers of affected people thrown around in the article are in
       | the thousands to hundreds of thousands.
       | 
       | There are about 250 million adults in the USA. So, if 300,000
       | have some kind of error in their credit score, that's a 1.2%
       | error rate, and Equifax has since corrected that particular
       | error.
       | 
       | 700,000 made complaints to the CFPB, and about 60% of those
       | related to scores, so about 420,000. So, this represents less
       | than 2 percent of adult Americans reporting an issue with their
       | credit scores.
       | 
       | I am sure these error rates could be improved, but I'm not sure I
       | would jump to the headline's conclusion that "the system is
       | broken." It seems like the system is functioning, has some flaws,
       | and that if the error rate improves even a little bit they're not
       | all that far from what most people would describe as an
       | acceptable error rate.
        
         | Mountain_Skies wrote:
         | The error rate likely would drop if there were actual
         | significant consequences for having created the errors in the
         | first place. There are fines if a company refuses to correct
         | errors after a "good faith" effort on the part of the consumer
         | to challenge the error and people do win those cases, but the
         | process is tedious and shouldn't put the burden on the
         | consumer. Plus the fines are too small to matter in most
         | situations. It's just another cost of doing business that is
         | less than the cost of preventing the errors from occurring at
         | the current rate.
        
         | mlyle wrote:
         | > and that if the error rate improves even a little bit they're
         | not all that far from what most people would describe as an
         | acceptable error rate.
         | 
         | A 2% error rate is not super acceptable depending on the
         | outcomes. IMO, the big issue: most of the cost of errors is
         | externalized to random consumers.
         | 
         | e.g. I ended up having to fight with multiple agencies as they
         | shared information with each other. They were each, at one time
         | or another when I was 18-22, utterly convinced that I was an
         | alias of a 45 year old guy racking up medical debts a few
         | states away (who happened to have transposed his SSN to give
         | mine on a form once). I also received harassing calls from
         | collectors that I couldn't identify who enjoyed mocking my
         | predicament and not complying with statutory requirements to
         | stop calling me. It's not very fun to be really excited about a
         | girl, and after you take her home for the first time, to
         | receive a call that plays on your answering machine mocking you
         | for being a deadbeat.
         | 
         | I was unable to access credit, which greatly complicated
         | business travel, etc. For many years to come, ordinary
         | transactions-- even buying a car with a cashier's check-- were
         | complicated.
         | 
         | It was an ongoing ordeal that lasted years, despite me having
         | some degree of know-how on how to address it (but relatively
         | little time to do so). It is an embarrassing ordeal to have to
         | constantly have awkward discussion with bankers when this bad
         | data happens to pop up and rear its ugly head again.
         | 
         | And, I didn't end up making a CFPB complaint, because as angry
         | as I was, I had other things to do-- so, I'm not included in
         | your counts.
        
       | lowkey wrote:
       | Credit scores make more sense once you understand that they
       | measure your potential profitability to a creditor, not your
       | creditworthiness.
       | 
       | That is why , for example, when you cancel a credit card your
       | credit score goes down.
        
       | colejohnson66 wrote:
       | I agree; The credit score system is full of abuse. But, and I ask
       | this genuinely, what're the other options?
       | 
       | If I'm a bank that's has never heard of Joe Schmo (who's asking
       | for a credit card), how do I know how much credit to give and at
       | what interest rate? Sure, I could give them a very low limit and
       | high interest rate, and both would improve over time, but if my
       | competitor next door can extend $5k at 15% by looking at Joe's
       | credit score, why would Joe come to me?
       | 
       | The reason credit scores exist is because there's a market for
       | that information, and the three companies took advantage of that.
       | But because of that market, abuse had to be controlled, and
       | Congress produced the FCRA. But even with that, there's still the
       | mess we have today.
        
         | hyperman1 wrote:
         | Afaik in Belgium, and in most of th EU, there is a credit
         | registry, managed by the governement. If you have too much
         | debt, you get on a blacklist and won't get off until enough is
         | paid back.
         | 
         | While far from perfect, it seems a lot better than the USA
         | system. But it requires a functioning ID system and some trust
         | in the governement.
        
           | resfirestar wrote:
           | The idea of a government run debtor blacklist has been
           | thoroughly demonized in America for the past decade through
           | news stories about "social credit" in China. Maybe it works
           | in Europe but if you wanted something similar in America it's
           | going take a long time for people to forget that stuff, even
           | if it was sensationalized.
        
             | enlyth wrote:
             | Because private companies such as Experian and Equifax have
             | worked out so well. Surely they have had no instances of
             | massive data breaches or anything that would impact
             | millions of individuals adversely.
        
           | Mountain_Skies wrote:
           | The government threatened to cut people off from the water
           | and sewage system if they didn't agree to pandemic rules. In
           | the USA it is expected that any power the government achieves
           | will eventually be abused to harm non-compliant citizens. In
           | this case, if you don't agree to the whims of a bureaucrat,
           | you lose access to credit. With the current system, that
           | wasn't an option, but it's been made clear that any power
           | they get their hands on, they will abuse. As long as that's
           | the case, people will prefer the current broken system run by
           | sociopathic corporations over one with the government in
           | control.
        
             | powerhour wrote:
             | > The government threatened to cut people off from the
             | water and sewage system if they didn't agree to pandemic
             | rules.
             | 
             | I did some searching and wasn't able to find any
             | information about this. Do you remember where it happened
             | or where you read about it?
        
         | humanwhosits wrote:
         | I'd argue that many people don't need credit _at all_ outside
         | of a mortgage, which really should have a real investigation
         | into your financial situation anyway.
        
           | bediger4000 wrote:
           | We used to have that. It was clubby and racist. If you went
           | to church with the banker, you got a mortgage. If you didn't
           | and your last name was uncommon or Slavic or something, you
           | didn't get a mortgage.
        
       | thatoneguy wrote:
       | I'm not a fan...the credit score system kept me homeless during
       | my freshman year of college even though I'd saved up enough money
       | to pay a year's worth of rent.
        
       | chadlavi wrote:
       | It's not broken, it's doing exactly what it was created (quite
       | recently btw) to do.
        
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       (page generated 2022-08-14 23:02 UTC)