[HN Gopher] Photos of trains in the American West (2017)
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       Photos of trains in the American West (2017)
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 82 points
       Date   : 2022-08-11 14:27 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnn.com)
        
       | santiagobasulto wrote:
       | Is that website also hijacking your browser's history?
        
         | forgotusername6 wrote:
         | I believe so. The back button did not work for me
        
       | racheltanks wrote:
       | Beautiful pictures
        
       | brudgers wrote:
       | If you're into railroad photography, O. Winston Link is the dean
       | of American railroad photography.
       | 
       | https://www.google.com/search?q=winston+link&client=safari&h...
       | 
       |  _Steam Steel and Stars_ is an amazing book.
       | 
       | https://books.google.com/books/about/Steam_Steel_and_Stars.h...
        
       | doodlebugging wrote:
       | Nice photos. I'm part of a railroading family so some of these
       | look like the calendar photos that came with the annual calendars
       | that employees could or did get.
       | 
       | I'm pretty sure that the caption on the 12th photo is wrong
       | though. It is captioned "Winona, Minnesota" and, being a
       | geoscientist, I'm pretty sure that the photo was taken somewhere
       | else. That part of Minnesota was scraped relatively flat and then
       | eroded by melt-water from the glaciers in the last ice age. It is
       | not covered by high mountain desert vegetation as in that photo
       | but instead has lots of lakes and mixed hardwood forests.
       | 
       | I believe that the photo comes from near Winona, Arizona. The
       | mountains in the background appears to be in the San Francisco
       | Peaks north of Flagstaff.
       | 
       | Another trainspotter took this photo [0] along the same tracks
       | but from a different vantage point. You can see the background is
       | the same though.
       | 
       | [0]https://www.flickr.com/photos/bb9604/27448935498/
        
         | quickthrowman wrote:
         | > It is captioned "Winona, Minnesota" and, being a
         | geoscientist, I'm pretty sure that the photo was taken
         | somewhere else. That part of Minnesota was scraped relatively
         | flat and then eroded by melt-water from the glaciers in the
         | last ice age.
         | 
         | A minor nitpick, Winona, MN is part of the Driftless Area that
         | was not covered by glaciers during the last ice age. It was
         | definitely shaped by glacial meltwaters, though.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driftless_Area
        
           | doodlebugging wrote:
           | Thank you for this. I did not know that part of Minnesota and
           | Wisconsin have no evidence of glaciation from the last ice
           | age. I imagine then that all the landforms are related to
           | outflow of melt-water from the glaciers as they receded.
           | 
           | I appreciate that information and for anyone else interested
           | in glacial landforms I found a great Story Map to shows in
           | DEM models and in photos what you would expect to see post-
           | glaciation. [1]
           | 
           | [1]https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/8d42e860ad0147bfac7a4
           | f9...
           | 
           | Enjoy, and learn something like I did.
        
         | CommieBobDole wrote:
         | You are correct - it was taken from just off the side of the
         | road at the south end of the bridge where Townsend-Winona road
         | crosses the railroad tracks.
         | 
         | You can see everything lines up on the street view, including
         | the two telephone poles.
         | 
         | https://goo.gl/maps/v53oXcHXUpU49mXr7
        
           | doodlebugging wrote:
           | Great work. I recognized the mountains since we passed
           | through the area and stayed in Flagstaff for several days a
           | few years ago. It is quite beautiful out there.
        
       | joehosteny wrote:
       | Nice photo of the now defunct Montana Rail Link. I always loved
       | that livery.
        
       | usrusr wrote:
       | Photos of trains on comically unelectrified tracks
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Electrifying yards could be worthwhile, but total US fuel usage
         | for trains is about 3.5 billion gallons [346] out of about 46
         | billion gallons/yr [995].
         | 
         | [346] https://www.bts.gov/content/class-i-rail-freight-fuel-
         | consum...
         | 
         | [995] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/diesel-fuel/use-of-
         | diese...
        
           | closewith wrote:
           | So ~7.5%? Seems worthwhile to me.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | High-end estimates are $5m per mile, at 140,000 miles it
             | would be $700 billion, throw in a bit more for some new
             | locos (probably could switch existing somehow), cool
             | trillion.
             | 
             | Could be better spent money than other things we do.
        
               | sandworm101 wrote:
               | The far more practical method would be for trains to haul
               | thier own batteries. A couple freight cars full of
               | lithium would provide substantial range without
               | electrifying the entire track. And trains have amazing
               | potential for regeneration during braking, if one can
               | find a way to do it practically.
        
               | ehnto wrote:
               | Some of the trains in the photograph use up to ~17MWs, to
               | get 129MWh of batteries installed on the ground in the
               | worlds largest battery array at the time, cost $90
               | million dollars and while a train could certainly pull
               | it, it's a non-trivial addition. That battery array
               | couldn't move the train for even a fraction of some
               | journeys required by train engines, so I think it's a
               | non-starter economically for these cross-country
               | journeys.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve
        
               | agsnu wrote:
               | Not for cross-country journeys yet (at least not alone),
               | but battery powered locomotives are picking up steam...
               | 
               | https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2022/03/01/the-
               | new-...
               | 
               | Apparently they largely have regenerative breaking
               | already but nowhere to store the energy so dump it
               | through resistors to vent it as heat, if they had big
               | battery arrays the savings could be significant.
        
               | M3L0NM4N wrote:
               | Solar panels on top of the cars?
        
               | throwaheyy wrote:
               | This can work for a lightweight railcar, with a lot of
               | sun, but is out of the question for a freight train.
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_Bay_Train
        
               | CrazyStat wrote:
               | The amount of energy provided by the solar panels would
               | be a rounding error compared to the total needed to move
               | the train. Almost certainly not worth it.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Yeah you'd almost certainly be better installing
               | electromagnets in yards to help get the train up to speed
               | somehow ...
        
               | ZanyProgrammer wrote:
               | Or we could just go back to electrification, like much of
               | the Milwaukee Road had prior to the 1970s, instead of
               | feeling the perpetual techie desire for new vaporware
               | tech.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Large American freights don't much brake if they can
               | avoid it.
               | 
               | You'd more get a benefit from using the power coasting
               | down the Rockies to provide juice to climb it -
               | electricification.
        
       | daneel_w wrote:
       | The train passing on a man-made land bridge cutting across a huge
       | lake caught my eye, as it seems very invasive and unusual to
       | divide a large portion of a lake like that. I just had to take a
       | look at Google Earth, but it wasn't "Horse Thief Lake, Pennington
       | County, South Dakota" like the description says.
        
         | queuebert wrote:
         | The caption for that photo says, 'Since then Lewis has
         | photographed trains in spectacular US locations -- but he does
         | extensive research before he goes out with his camera: "Doing
         | research beforehand is important to understand what the railway
         | operations are like," he says.'
         | 
         | Oops.
        
         | Luc wrote:
         | It's Horsethief Lake in Washington. It's actually a very small
         | lake by the side of the Columbia river.
         | 
         | https://goo.gl/maps/iQragwczG8NJxKfq7
        
         | retzkek wrote:
         | The Great Salt Lake in Utah is split into two lakes by a
         | railroad causeway, creating two very different ecologies with
         | much higher salinity in the northern lake.
         | https://www.amusingplanet.com/2014/08/the-great-salt-lakes-r...
        
       | victornomad wrote:
       | I love trains. When I went to the US I took the chance to ride a
       | couple and I loved the beautiful landscapes.
       | 
       | It's a bit sad that the whole country is designed for cars and
       | trains are so limited.
        
       | paganel wrote:
       | For as much as the Americans like to complain in here and on
       | reddit about their train infrastructure, imo it is still one of
       | the best in the world. Yes, the big tragedy it's that is focused
       | on freight transport instead of also taking into consideration
       | public transport, but the good thing is that you still have most
       | of the actual tracks in place and functional.
       | 
       | Over here in Europe most of them are gone, with very exceptions
       | (like Switzerland). This reddit post [1] comparing the French
       | railway network in 1910 to what was still available in 2014 is
       | just depressing.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/4be0sc/train_netwo...
        
         | alistairSH wrote:
         | I'm not sure I'd call it a tragedy, at least not when talking
         | about trains across the American West or Midwest. That's an
         | absolutely massive space, and outside a few cities, it's pretty
         | sparse.
         | 
         | It _IS_ absolutely a tragedy that we don't have particularly
         | good rail transit from major city to major city. A proper high
         | speed line from DC- >NYC->Boston. SD->LA->SF. And NYC to
         | Chicago, maybe. Probably others, but those seem like they'd be
         | doable and get some airplanes out of the sky and cars off the
         | interstate.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Northeast Corridor works pretty well as it is--and is very
           | popular, albeit mostly to and from NYC as opposed to the
           | entire length. The controversy around California HSR is well-
           | known. And NYC to Chicago has to go through a continental
           | divide so it's not clear how competitive that could be with
           | flying--which it has to be if it's going to be popular with
           | business travelers.
        
             | AnimalMuppet wrote:
             | What continental divide does it cross? Chicago is on Lake
             | Michigan, which drains into the Atlantic. New York is on
             | the Atlantic.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Basically some combination of the Eastern and St.
               | Lawrence divides--mostly the Appalachians. [1] (Would
               | have to look up the exact current route.) It's basically
               | why the Erie Canal was built. [2] The Saint Lawrence
               | Seaway goes into the Atlantic north of the St. Lawrence
               | divide.
               | 
               | [1]
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Continental_Divide
               | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_Canal
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | I do not consider the St. Lawrence divide to be a
               | "continental" divide, nor do I know of anyone who
               | considers it to be so. It's just a watershed divide, and
               | those are a dime a dozen.
               | 
               | I can see that some people would consider the Eastern
               | divide to be a continental divide, though I do not.
        
           | AlbertCory wrote:
           | The Acela from NYC to DC is "particularly good." I rode it,
           | and it's already popular.
           | 
           | The others... well, check on status of the "high-speed rail"
           | from SF to LA, which was going to be only twice as fast as
           | driving, at most. If it ever gets built.
           | 
           | And that's if you don't factor in getting to and from the
           | train stations, since unlike Europe, most people in CA aren't
           | a tram ride away from downtown.
        
             | alistairSH wrote:
             | My main issue with the Acela is it's only partially high-
             | speed. It only hits top speed of 150mph on a short stretch
             | between Boston and NY. And due to turns on this stretch, it
             | only averages ~70mph. The rest of the line is capped at
             | 135mph. Over the whole DC-Boston route, it saves about an
             | hour over regular rail, but it could/should be even faster.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | One of the big wins of Acela was it got the route north
               | of New Haven electrified which saves a good often 30
               | minutes off the pre-Acela regional train run because an
               | engine switch is no longer necessary even for the non-
               | Acela runs. Would have been nice for Acela to be higher
               | speed overall--it's usually not that practical for a
               | Boston to DC run especially given that both cities have
               | pretty convenient transit links to their airports.
               | 
               | But I suspect the cost delta compared to Acela as
               | realized would have been huge given how built up most of
               | the corridor is. And it's still pretty competitive with
               | flying unless you have an early meeting and can't/don't
               | want to go down the night before from BOS/RTE to NYP.
        
               | AlbertCory wrote:
               | Yeah, I'd add that in both NY and DC, the train station
               | is a much shorter distance between where you're likely to
               | be and where you probably want to go. Penn Station and
               | Union Station are pretty convenient.
        
         | Luc wrote:
         | > This reddit post [1] comparing the French railway network in
         | 1910 to what was still available in 2014 is just depressing.
         | 
         | Well don't be depressed because that second map is obviously
         | and totally wrong.
         | 
         | It's even mentioned in the comments of the reddit link if you
         | scroll down enough. The maps should actually be pretty much the
         | same.
        
         | sekao wrote:
         | > the big tragedy it's that is focused on freight transport
         | 
         | I don't see the tragedy in that. Tracks in the US are privately
         | owned and freight makes them more money than passenger rail.
         | Don't think we'd gain anything by artifically changing that.
         | Even in Europe planes are usually faster and cheaper than rail
         | when traveling between countries.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I'm not sure why this would be considered a controversial
           | statement. A lot of short to medium distance in Europe is
           | very good/convenient by rail, e.g. Eurostar from London to
           | Brussels or Paris--even if not necessarily cheaper than
           | flying. But while I've taken night trains between countries,
           | it was more for the experience and not to save either time or
           | money.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | woweoe wrote:
           | The tragedy is that people who want to use the railways are
           | put below freight in priority - whereas other countries such
           | as Russia and India are capable of mixing both.
        
         | bobthepanda wrote:
         | If you were to make the same comparison in the US it would be
         | very similar.
         | 
         | A lot of railroads were abandoned or turned into trails. Those
         | that remained were stripped as much as possible to fire sell
         | assets in desperate attempts to improve the balance sheets (de-
         | electrified to sell the copper, reduced tracks from 4 to 2 or 2
         | to 1 to sell the rails, etc.)
         | 
         | At least part of it is that in some US jurisdictions railroads
         | have to pay property tax on their assets, which is not
         | something that (usually) publicly owned roads and airports deal
         | with. This is a massive perverse incentive to run everything as
         | skimpy as possible to reduce the value of land.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | The US rail network does what it is designed to do very well -
         | move absolutely insane amounts of freight (container/truck and
         | bulk) relatively quickly over insanely long distances.
         | 
         | Unless you live in or near a deep-water ocean port, almost
         | everything you have went on a train at some point if you're in
         | the US.
        
       | stardenburden wrote:
       | Those diesel engines are crazy strong. You feel the earth around
       | you rumble when one of them rolls by.
        
         | Stratoscope wrote:
         | I used to live in Campbell, CA in a second floor apartment
         | directly overlooking three railroad tracks: two for the light
         | rail and one for the Union Pacific freight trains carrying
         | loads from the Permanente Quarry.
         | 
         | My dad worked for Union Pacific when I was a kid, so it was
         | super fun to see their trains go by. The light rail trains
         | would sneak up on you, but you could hear the diesel trains
         | coming up from miles away.
        
         | doodlebugging wrote:
         | Yes they are and you are right about the rumble.
         | 
         | About thirty 30 years ago I was on a drilling rig in Louisiana
         | with a geophone array deployed so that I could record the
         | vibrations made by the drill bit as they drilled towards a
         | potential reservoir near a salt dome. We were doing a salt
         | proximity survey using the drill bit energy as the seismic
         | source so that we could hopefully help steer the drill bit
         | through the sediments beside the salt dome without sending it
         | into the salt and possibly intersect the highest point of a
         | reservoir rock at the salt/sediment interface so that
         | production from that gas/oil saturated zone would be maximized
         | since you are farther from the oil/water interface in the wet
         | zone.
         | 
         | Anyway, drill bits 15000 ft in the subsurface are viable energy
         | sources but are very low energy. We were about 5 miles from a
         | train track but every time the trains came down the line you
         | could see them coming when they were miles away from the
         | closest point to the arrays. The energy would start off as a
         | random background noise that steadily increased in amplitude
         | until it swamped everything and was clipped in the sensors and
         | then as the train passed it would steadily decrease until the
         | train was several miles away.
        
           | logifail wrote:
           | Reminds me of this New Scientist article:
           | 
           |  _WHAT is 27 kilometres long, cost PS700 million to build and
           | can tell you precisely when trains are leaving Geneva
           | station?_
           | https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg14820060-300-the-
           | part...
           | 
           | (spoiler: the Large Electron Positron Collider at CERN)
        
           | biotinker wrote:
           | There are more practical, everyday application for that fact
           | as well.
           | 
           | When I lived next to a train track, I built a seismograph to
           | detect oncoming trains, and had a white noise machine that
           | would ramp up volume as the train approached to prevent the
           | train from waking anyone up.
        
         | ehnto wrote:
         | For reference, in the photograph of the train in Winona, the
         | units are said to be the ES44DC which produce 4,400 horse
         | power, or 3.3MW, and there's four of them for a total of
         | 17,600hp or 13.2MW.
        
       | rconti wrote:
       | I'll be driving across the American West this week, and it made
       | me wonder -- is there anything like flightradar24, for but
       | trains? (I searched this in Google and got a 5 year old reddit
       | post that only had resources for the UK).
       | 
       | It would be neat, if I found a photogenic location, to be able to
       | see if a train was coming along soon.
        
       | vwcx wrote:
       | Also worth seeing: two photographers followed the route of the
       | old Milwaukee Road on a diesel speeder in the 1980s. The photos
       | are neat: https://newwww.weedroute.com/
       | 
       | Abandoned Rails is also a great resource:
       | https://www.abandonedrails.com/
        
         | brudgers wrote:
         | Have you seen Buster Keaton's _Railrodder_? It is his last
         | project and is filmed across Canada.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Railrodder
        
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       (page generated 2022-08-14 23:01 UTC)