[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Was the early internet used primarily for sc...
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       Ask HN: Was the early internet used primarily for scams like
       blockchain is now?
        
       See title.
        
       Author : senttoschool
       Score  : 21 points
       Date   : 2022-08-13 18:07 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
       | chrisdhoover wrote:
       | No. Scams have always existed and folks were wary of providing
       | personal information. There was a discussion about what to call
       | it. Ibahn was my favorite. Broswers and www did not exist. You
       | could poke around and find file folders of organizations, open
       | them up and read the files therein. People were clueless, the CFO
       | at my company spent most of his day looking at pron. Even before
       | ATT built its data vacuum in SOMA there was a sense that that
       | worst fears of a surveillance state were neigh.
        
       | badrabbit wrote:
       | How early? In the 2000s there were plenty of scams. I still
       | remember falling for a banner ad scam "You are the 1000000th
       | customer and you won a prize" sitting for hours submitting form
       | after form survey after survey card after card until I gave up
       | from frustration.
        
       | junon wrote:
       | Nope. Early days of web were fun, especially since not everyone
       | and their grandmother were terminally online.
        
         | peyton wrote:
         | Pop-up ads? "Click here for a free $50 gift card!" and so
         | forth.
         | 
         | Was everywhere by about 1998 or so.
        
           | icedchai wrote:
           | By 1998, the Internet was basically mainstream. Broadband was
           | starting to roll out (early cable modems and DSL.) I consider
           | "early internet" 1995 and before.
        
           | junon wrote:
           | I'd rather pop up ads than the societal breakdown we have
           | today, if that was really the choice. Also, popups weren't on
           | the niche sites. AdWords really changed that.
        
       | nostrademons wrote:
       | Not in the same way, but they're fundamentally different
       | technologies. The Internet is fundamentally a communications
       | technology; blockchain is fundamentally a financial technology.
       | 
       | The (very-)early Internet was largely used to distribute
       | scientific papers. Once it hit the mainstream, it was used to
       | setup fan pages for bands, chat with people across the globe,
       | share experiences with esoteric hobbies, and basically do things
       | like Hacker News but at scale.
       | 
       | If you look at other financial technologies like the joint-stock
       | corporation or the stock market, they absolutely were used
       | primarily for scams. Read up on the history of the stock market
       | c. 1850-1860, particularly financiers like Jay Gould; it was
       | absolutely _crazy_ , with scams, panics, market corners, and
       | bankruptcies far worse than anything in the crypto space now.
       | Same with the joint stock corporation, which was first developed
       | so that you could colonize and exterminate the natives without
       | any one person having legal liability for that. (Well, that and
       | so when a ship's crew never came home, nobody was liable.)
        
         | multjoy wrote:
         | WWW != internet
        
       | nathanyz wrote:
       | I think the key word in your question is "primarily." And because
       | of that I would say not at all. The early Internet was people
       | having the ability to connect and communicate with others all
       | over the world. Being able to meet, or learn, or buy from people
       | even in the next state was completely game changing. Before it
       | would have required physical catalogs, or getting someones phone
       | number, etc. But the Internet made it happen at an unbelievable
       | speed which is why it took over.
       | 
       | That was it's "job" per se. Did people use this new ability to
       | try to scam others, sure, just like they did with bogus ads for
       | hovercrafts in the back of magazines in prior years. But the
       | technology itself was about this instant communication.
       | 
       | So people wanted to move all offline stuff to online. That is why
       | first boom was just things you can do offline, but now online.
       | Buy pet supplies...online. But groceries...online. Etc, while the
       | winners of that era didn't just recreate offline businesses
       | online, but improved them based on the paradigm shift it enabled.
       | 
       | Blockchain feels like a technology looking for a "job." I
       | understand there are some countries where maybe the job is being
       | able to move money, although I am not convinced that it is is net
       | positive in those cases. The biggest thing I think I have
       | realized is that I have never been in a situation, where I think
       | to myself, "If I could just use the blockchain to do this, it
       | would be incredible."
       | 
       | And if after all of these years, that thought hasn't hit you even
       | once, then I think that says something about whether it is
       | actually improving anything.
        
       | jstx1 wrote:
       | No, this is what people who are too deep into crypto tell
       | themselves and each other in order to sleep a bit better at
       | night.
        
       | krupan wrote:
       | The early internet, no, but scammers soon came and still use the
       | internet heavily. Ever heard of email spam and phishing? Still
       | enormous. We have filters that help a lot, but it's still a huge
       | problem.
       | 
       | eBay came into existence to try and allow people to buy and sell
       | over the internet without getting scammed. I still got scammed by
       | an eBay seller in the early days. Everyone did. But eventually
       | their reputation system worked and buying and selling on eBay is
       | pretty safe.
       | 
       | Just a couple of examples, but if you think just a little you can
       | remember various frauds and scams, ponzi schemes, personal
       | information harvesting, etc., etc., that all make heavy use of
       | the internet
        
       | saaaaaam wrote:
       | Stupid people didn't have access to the early internet. Then
       | enteral September struck and... well, here we all are.
        
       | gizajob wrote:
       | No far from it. The early web was people putting their interests
       | online, in the hope that someone might be on the same wavelength
       | and discover them. Before that it was just academia and then it
       | blew up with the web and email.
       | 
       | I'd say the main thing that revolutionised the public internet
       | was TRUST. The early days was an era where people would be
       | genuinely cautious about what might happen behind the website. It
       | was initially a tough proposition to send your money off to a
       | website in the hope that something might arrive in the post some
       | time later. What eBay in particular did was create the feedback
       | system, where we could gain ratings points for doing what we said
       | we were going to do.
       | 
       | I feel like this trust system and the legitimisation of
       | e-commerce has made the importance of this fade into the
       | background. Now, we are in an age where seemingly millions of
       | people get embroiled in schemes of little utility in the blind
       | faith they will make them rich, somehow.
        
         | hammyhavoc wrote:
         | I miss the early days dearly.
        
       | krupan wrote:
       | The thing with Blockchain scams (shitcoins), is that it feels
       | like the creators of these coins often really believe they are
       | going to be providing a useful service, a new innovation better
       | than traditional financial services, better than Bitcoin. But
       | they just don't think it all the way through. It's hard to think
       | it all the way through!
       | 
       | But don't get me wrong, there are also most definitely some
       | outright scams in the crypto world too.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > The thing with Blockchain scams (shitcoins), is that it feels
         | like the creators of these coins often really believe they are
         | going to be providing a useful service, a new innovation better
         | than traditional financial services, better than Bitcoin. But
         | they just don't think it all the way through.
         | 
         | Or, maybe, the success and visibility of these types of coins
         | is driven almost entirely by the ability of the creators to
         | project the illusion of confidence and expertise to _buyers_
         | who won't think things all the way through.
        
       | simonblack wrote:
       | Money didn't come into it until the first search engines allowed
       | the monetisation of the Net. (Unless you consider the difficulty
       | of computer faculties getting funding from University
       | administrations.)
       | 
       | Prior to that, it was 99% an interactive learning area with the
       | oldies teaching the newbies. In fact probably 95% of the Net back
       | then was run by Universities all over the world.
        
       | cookingrobot wrote:
       | Chain emails were common, and were mostly just annoying. But some
       | would ask you to send money in exchange for getting much more
       | sent to you later.
        
       | carlosdp wrote:
       | As soon as consumers started onboarding to it, absolutely.
       | 
       | On top of the other examples mentioned in this thread, it wasn't
       | that long ago that the internet was plagued with pop-up scams
       | left and right. We forget about it now because browsers have
       | eliminated that vector for the most part.
        
       | silisili wrote:
       | The early internet was purely technical...mainly military,
       | university.
       | 
       | The early 'mass internet' of the early to mid 90s is when I
       | started on it. In my experience, it was mostly people looking for
       | entertainment and chatting. The web was new, barebones, and
       | fascinating. It was nowhere near as scummy as it is now.
       | 
       | Scams of some sort have always existed...phishing, get rich quick
       | schemes, etc. Mainly delivered by email. It definitely was by no
       | means primarily for scams. I'd argue the internet today is more
       | scammy than the early internet was, ignoring blockchain.
        
       | nitwit005 wrote:
       | The early internet was mostly academic.
       | 
       | A bit later on, things like viruses and spyware became a major
       | issue. It took a while for the people making browsers and
       | operating systems to realize how severe a security problem the
       | internet would be.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | No.
        
       | exmadscientist wrote:
       | The early Internet, I don't know, I wasn't there.
       | 
       | The early web certainly wasn't full of scams. It was mostly made
       | of stuff like the strawberry pop-tart experiments, recently
       | resurfaced on HN: https://www.pmichaud.com/toast/ . That was at
       | the higher end of quality, and there was plenty of commercial
       | stuff (think company websites, not eBay yet), but it all had that
       | same spirit, which is so rare today. (HN has a bit of that
       | spirit, which is worth putting up with some crap to get even a
       | small dose of in these troubled days.)
       | 
       | There was a major discovery problem though, which led to things
       | like webrings and the birth of search engines and spam. Maybe not
       | in that order.
        
       | parkingrift wrote:
       | The web was invented in 1989, and by 2002 we already had an
       | entire dotcom explosion and collapse. Google was a four year old
       | established company. Using the internet was completely
       | mainstream. Everyone at every age was using it and had uses for
       | it.
       | 
       | No, the early web was not primarily scams. Blockchain is well
       | over a decade old and still searching for a way to be useful.
       | 
       | Early internet was mostly military or educational. No widespread
       | usage among everyday people. No big scams that I'm aware of, but
       | mostly because no one was using it or could use it.
        
       | tornato7 wrote:
       | The first email spam was sent in 1978[1], if that's something you
       | count. Interestingly, Hashcash, the first proof-of-work system,
       | was actually invented to stop email spam. This is a loaded
       | question, anyway. Most technologies will eventually become
       | 'primarily' used for spam or scams by some metrics. 60% of all
       | phone calls are spam or scams[2] creating $18bn+ in losses due to
       | fraud[3]. 85% of all emails are spam[4]. 70% of all registered
       | domain names are malicious[5]. Yet people don't typically
       | describe these systems as 'primarily used for scams'. 1.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_email_spam 2.
       | https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/us-phones-were-hit-...
       | 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_fraud 4.
       | https://dataprot.net/statistics/spam-statistics/ 5.
       | https://www.scmagazine.com/news/malware/vast-majority-of-new...
        
       | batmanturkey wrote:
       | No, primarily larks and amusement and interesting stuff. This was
       | largely a labor of love, showing faith in internationalism and
       | humanity
        
       | picsao wrote:
        
       | chrismeller wrote:
       | It started out for mostly academic and high-end tech uses, so no.
        
         | MilnerRoute wrote:
         | Came here to say this.
         | 
         | The internet as a mass phenomenon didn't happen until around
         | 1994. (They'd send you floppy disks in the mail with software
         | to get you on a consumer-friendly "online service" like AOL or
         | CompuServe, and this suddenly brought waves of people outside
         | the original techie/academic sphere.) And then web browsers
         | became popular...
         | 
         | Internet commerce didn't really start happening until later in
         | the 1990s -- so prior to that, it would've been really hard for
         | scammers to actually draw a line all the way into somebody's
         | bank account.
        
       | kirykl wrote:
       | Financial scams ? Email and spam supported a fair share such as
       | the 419 scam
        
       | solmanac wrote:
       | A lot of it was mercifully stuff like alt.tv.x-files. It was
       | great.
        
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       (page generated 2022-08-13 23:01 UTC)