[HN Gopher] How to stay focused while working on your startup an...
___________________________________________________________________
How to stay focused while working on your startup and having a 9 to
5
Author : fer_momento
Score : 154 points
Date : 2022-08-13 14:58 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (fernandopessagno.medium.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (fernandopessagno.medium.com)
| rr808 wrote:
| Who are these people? Run home at 5:30 to pickup the kids from
| after school childcare, cook dinner then help them with homework?
| Help their parents? Mow the lawn, paint the bathroom, service the
| car, do the taxes, shop the groceries, get a health checkup, get
| a tooth fixed, visit the neighbors. Who has time for a startup
| with a job?
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| Ideally people without kids, most of the things you listed
| either could be paid for or avoided.
| rr808 wrote:
| Yeah if you spend all your time on startup and not with your
| girlfriend you wont be getting kids either. ;-)
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| I don't think it's a coincidence that Zuckerberg, Bezos,
| and Musk are said to have these "alien/robotic"
| personalities. I don't believe it's a simple as "well
| that's cus they're programmers".
| rolisz wrote:
| Eh, Musk has plenty of kids :)))
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| Eh, born after he became wealthy, taken care by nannies,
| and scattered across like 3 wives. His 18 year old
| daughter went to court to legally separate herself. :)))
| wnolens wrote:
| Many people have no kids, or no parents (passed, or in another
| country), or live in a city (no yard, no car). The shape of
| their life is much different than yours. The lack of
| responsibility by comparison allows for this sort of venture to
| be prioritized. My life is like this (minus the startup, which
| sounds like a terrible time sink to me)
| lcedp wrote:
| To be fair, the article promises advice on how to have a
| startup and 9-to-5, not on how to have both while raising small
| kids. Doing just 2 of 3 is hard enough.
|
| > Run home at 5:30
|
| Author mentions he's remote and don't have to commute which
| saves ~10 hours per week.
|
| > cook dinner
|
| If you are picking up kids today, could your partner cook
| dinner?
| woweoe wrote:
| Something I learn in Japan was that you also need to have
| friends/people who share the same ideology as you. In Western
| Europe there would be people who support you making a startup but
| also EXPECT you to have free time outside working hours. If you
| work the entire time in Western Europe then you might be
| considered an outcast.
| fer_momento wrote:
| 100% true. Luckily for me, I live in Sweden and work life
| balance here is great, we get +four weeks of vacation and many
| benefits. So far, I haven't met anyone with the "hustle hustle
| hustle" attitude that you can find in other parts of the world,
| and I'm saying that as something positive!
| lnsru wrote:
| Lazy West. Leading into already visible decline. I have 30
| days regular vacation here in Germany. Plus additional 4 from
| Big corp I work for. Plus take all overtime as vacation days
| giving me another dozen free days. Basically no time for
| work. Days with meetings or time off. My boss from Asia
| shares my "hustle hustle hustle" attitude and I love it.
| washadjeffmad wrote:
| If you're challenged to fit a year's worth of work into
| 91/2 months and are still bored, that sounds like a
| fantastic opportunity to build something you're passionate
| about.
| O__________O wrote:
| Curious, you mentioned Japan, was there something specific
| about Japan that differed from Western Europe in your
| experience?
| [deleted]
| woweoe wrote:
| The social structure and how you view friends or make friends
| are different in all cultures including Japan.
|
| Japan does not have the concept of "casual friends" or "light
| hearted friends" in the same way that places like the US
| have, but more similar to the way friends are viewed in the
| UK maybe, and friends take a lot of work and time to make.
|
| In the middle of this is that most of your social life and
| work life are merged into one, which is different to
| countries like the UK and US, and you will be expected to
| work very long hours to show your love of the company.
| synergy20 wrote:
| I tried a full time job and moonlighting, exhausted, in the end I
| left the job and did contracting for a few years, just too hard
| to handle both in parallel.
|
| I then tried the 9-5 plus startup game after work, it's less
| stressing on the workload side(I can manage my startup time
| unlike the moonlighting where clients sometimes have deadlines),
| but the even bigger hassle now is interrupts from kids, it's
| impossible to stay focused when I'm at home due to that.
|
| I respect anyone that has a few kids while having a 9-5 while
| somehow can take a startup off the ground.
|
| For those who devoted to career without kids or even marriage,
| we're in a different world, and there is not much for apple to
| apple comparison.
| n_cusan wrote:
| Very much agree, having kids has totally changed the way I
| work. I definitely have less time to do side projects and have
| to heavily coordinate with my wife when I want to work on a
| side project.
|
| On the other hand I have had the experience that I am much more
| focused when I have the time as it has become more precious in
| a way. My motivation to create something new that could
| potentially benefit my children is also much higher. Just have
| to be careful not to convert motivation to self-pressure. It
| can be a thin line sometimes.
| xwowsersx wrote:
| I think there is really something to the idea that as time
| becomes more precious, you use it more productively. It
| reminds me in a way of the idea that constraints, for example
| in art, are where true creativity comes from. Having
| absolutely no boundaries at all isn't actually a recipe for
| great artistic expression. It's a loose analogy, but in
| somewhat the same manner, when you feel absolutely no
| limitations or demands on your time, you simply squander it.
| I think someone once said that if you really want something
| done, find the busiest person you know and ask them to do it.
| As counterintuitive as this seems, it's very true in my
| personal experience. People who are busy and who have a lot
| of demands on their time are quicker to stop starting and
| start finishing.
| greatpostman wrote:
| The biggest thing is you need to work in the mornings before
| work. Also no alcohol
| Loeffelmann wrote:
| Why no alcohol?
| papito wrote:
| Indeed. But you also need the discipline to walk away. If you
| are going to do startup/work back to back, you must also be
| able to take a true break on the weekends, or else it's burnout
| city. You can go a long way on pure passion alone, but your
| body will check you are some point if you are abusing yourself.
| fer_momento wrote:
| +++ This is so important and one of the hardest things for
| me. I discover that when you schedule for leisure, you are
| less likely to feel guilty about taking a break.
| dimitrios1 wrote:
| This is my 4th or 5th go at attempting to bootstrap a product
| with a 9 to 5 (and now kids), the "stick to your framework"
| advice is very good. It's a lesson that I learned the hard way.
|
| Such a tendency to make excuses and say "well I am doing
| professional development as well" or "this is also a learning
| exercise" -- well maybe, but also, if you ever want an actual
| product to see the light of day, you eventually just need to live
| with the stack you chose and go for it.
|
| My goal now isn't to use the latest cutting edge stack, and keep
| it updated to be even more bleeding edge.
|
| My goal now is to have something that I can say is "legacy" and
| needs updates.
| enviclash wrote:
| IMHO the question is, for how long can you do it? And perhaps,
| until what age?
| pj_mukh wrote:
| One simple suggestion missing:
|
| "Get paying customers, and take payment"
|
| It's not _always_ possible but it is in most situations. A lot of
| (especially enterprise) customers are happy to front you money to
| build something they really need. Be up front about this.
|
| The moment you do this, most other things with respect to
| prioritization + focus fall into place. YC says this often.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| > You need to have a healthy balance of work, leisure, and taking
| care of your health.
|
| > If you feel like you don't have enough time, it's probably
| because you're not focusing on the right things.
|
| > But if you feel like you're starting to burn out, take it easy
| and unplug for a little while.
|
| Unpopular opinion perhaps, but maybe you can't do it all? If
| you're working full-time and have any sort of family or personal
| life you can't do anything that's truly a start-up. This is OK.
| You can have a fun side project, you can even make money at it,
| but it ain't a start-up.
| redonkulus wrote:
| Also no kids or family
| yread wrote:
| I think that with one kid and a partner its doable. With two
| kids my free time shrunk to 22:00 - midnight which might not be
| enough
| mrweasel wrote:
| That to. We shouldn't blame kids for "stealing" our time, it
| just happens to work out that way. Block out time... Sure and
| two minutes in: Dad, I got glue on my fingers.
|
| This type of article is a little like a weight-loss program
| that tell you, in a roundabout way, that you just need to
| workout and eat healthy. All the advise is actually sound
| enough, but it's also something that most of us already know.
| tpmx wrote:
| I don't think anyone is blaming the kids. I mean, the
| decisions to have the kids were made by adults. I'm in favor
| of blaming the adults.
|
| That said, us nerds probably shouldn't stop reproducing.
|
| The intro to Idiocracy (2006) is quite relevant today:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP2tUW0HDHA
|
| I heard Mike Judge on a podcast about a month ago (JRE)
| saying that the ability to make that intro was a large factor
| in his motivation of making the Idiocracy movie in the first
| place.
| heurisko wrote:
| Similar to how environmentalists conscientiously abstaining
| from children are just serving to remove conscientious
| people from the gene pool.
| tpmx wrote:
| Do you think conscientiousness is heritable?
| harperlee wrote:
| Don't you think values are transmitted from parents to
| children?
|
| I think the "gene pool" phrase is not there to be taken
| literally...
| blueboo wrote:
| --Or a partner that bears an outlandishly lopsided portion of
| household and parenting work.
|
| Also, instead of investing in and maintaining relationship with
| said partner, reserve the post bedtime time for your SaaS
|
| resentment, burnout and/or divorce is galactically more likely
| than startup success, so do be sure that you're the exception.
| jahewson wrote:
| I have young kids and usually find 2-3 hours to work on my own
| stuff in the evening after they've gone to bed. But I have to
| sacrifice all the other things people usually get to do in that
| time. Weekends are just for family.
| kamaal wrote:
| I've done this in the past for years and it ain't fun.
|
| Eventually you will burn out working 18 hr workdays, without
| breaks, vacations, family time, exercise and if you don't see
| much financial success at the end you will suffer a total
| disappointment with yourself and your life. That is if you are
| lucky enough to not run into health and financial issues before
| all this.
|
| Besides the idea that working too hard automatically means
| success is just plain wrong. Money is not a linear function of
| effort. And real life success even in regular jobs depends on
| luck and things like office politics for the most part.
|
| If anything working too hard will make your boss envious of you,
| and will work against your best interest. YMMV.
| fer_momento wrote:
| I would never advise someone to work 18 hour days, especially
| if they already have financial stability from a full-time job.
| There's no need to rush it - taking it slowly is also valid.
| brocha wrote:
| I do wonder what you mean by "get up at 6AM and start working."
| Do you immediately get out of bed and get on your computer or do
| you shower/eat/every other morning activity first? Does that mean
| you work at 6:30 or 6?
| nickjj wrote:
| I don't know about the author's schedule but:
|
| I usually wake up at about 6am. I check my email (I do personal
| support for the courses I run) and then spend 10-15 minutes
| glancing HN and a few sub-Reddits. That's usually enough time
| for me to finish drinking some water, all in all now it's about
| 6:30am. Then I go for a 60-90 minute walk. Then I'll make
| breakfast while eating at my desk while making about 45-60
| minutes of progress on something. This could be planning out
| this week's video so that all I have to do is record it at a
| later time, work on some open source project or maybe my course
| platform. At this point it's close to 9am.
|
| Also, sometimes I wake up at 6:30am and I'll walk for an hour
| instead of 90 minutes. Sometimes I still walk for an hour even
| if I wake up at 6am because it gives an extra 30 minutes to do
| something interesting.
|
| Then it's close to 9am to start work, I work until 6pm with a 1
| hour lunch break in between. Most of the time during that 1
| hour break I'll go for a 30min walk and eat lunch. Rather than
| try to do something productive I use this time to idle. I never
| walk with podcasts going or listening to music, I just let my
| brain veg out. I'll also do basic exercise during this time
| like push ups, sit ups and I've started to jump rope now too.
|
| After 6pm I'll make dinner and relax a bit. By 7pm I usually
| take another 30min walk, then shower. Then I spend about
| another hour or so trying to do something useful (progress on
| something, reading, etc.). Then I'll watch a movie from like
| 9pm to 11pm and goto sleep. My evenings vary. Sometimes I don't
| put in that extra hour and play video games instead. Sometimes
| I might decide to eat out with a friend but not really that
| often. I need more hobbies and I wish covid wasn't a thing
| anymore because I wouldn't mind doing other things in the
| evenings but a lot of it is indoors.
|
| Needless to say I highly value unplugged walking time where I
| think about whatever pops up in my mind. It's hard to measure
| productivity but I'm sure I could probably spend half that
| amount of time and still get value of it but working 9-6
| doesn't leave that much flexibility to break up the day much
| better.
| fer_momento wrote:
| Basically, yes. I work remotely, so I'm not a huge breakfast
| guy. I have a banana and yogurt on my desk as a quick breakfast
| right after I wake up and then start working.
| hackerlight wrote:
| You should get some sunlight for your circadian clock
| npalli wrote:
| It would be good if there was common agreement that startup is a
| special type of new business who purpose is to scale rapidly and
| faces uncertainty and high rates of failure. There is usually
| high upfront investment needed (whether R&D or customer
| acquisition) and the revenue will follow much later. This type of
| business is an all-in affair, cant do it part time. Even wiki is
| now up to date with this definition [1].
|
| This is to be distinguished from new businesses that do not
| intend to have rapid growth (even go beyond solo founder) and are
| in stable markets (used to be called small businesses). The OP
| seems to be running what I would call a small business which is
| not exactly a startup so why is he trying to tell us he is doing
| something special. For example, pretty sure I can make a case he
| is already working too much for his busines, maybe play guitar
| some weekdays, take some time off. There will be minimal impact
| to business.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startup_company
| papito wrote:
| Not to get political, but I was working heads down on my project
| back in 2015, for hours in the morning at once. Then MAGA came to
| D.C., and I knew I had only a couple of months left of true,
| serene, focused work - while the adults were still winding things
| down. Boy, was I right.
|
| Ever since then I have not been able to focus. Everything is on
| fire, all the time. I envy the people who can tune out the world
| and pretend as if we are not living in a historic time, in the
| middle of a shift toward something very likely not good.
| daliusd wrote:
| Geez, you need psychotherapy.
| whiddershins wrote:
| Unless you are coherently doing something about it, or planning
| to, thinking about it is is self harm at worst, entertainment
| at best.
| papito wrote:
| Imagine if I told you there was an asteroid coming for Earth,
| and it's large enough that nothing can be done about it. Go
| back to your life. Relax. Don't think about it. One morning
| you will wake up and see a giant fireball in the sky, and
| then you will only have a few minutes to live. Or maybe you
| won't have a chance to wake up.
|
| How does that work?
| neilv wrote:
| Some people need to pay more attention, and some people need a
| break.
|
| If you're in the latter group, consider getting out of the
| 'news' pipelines for a few months.
|
| Use no social media where 'news' appears. For example, if you
| use Reddit, don't look at the front page -- which is mostly
| outrage porn and shameless buzz marketing -- only select,
| bookmarked subreddits on other topics.
|
| If outrage is being shoveled into your feed anywhere,
| disconnect the feed.
|
| After a few months' break, to try to have sustainable
| civic/community engagement, carefully introduce an outlet
| that's trying to do real journalism in contrast to all the
| demagoguery. The tone can be concerned, but it must be
| objective rather than persuasive/manipulative, and maybe this
| combination of awareness and composure is reassuring. Maybe
| this is the NYT or WaPo still(?), or maybe you find something
| that works better for you. Check it maybe once a week or month.
| If you find a periodic summary that can update you in an hour,
| like a Week In Review, great.
|
| Once you're not overwhelmed, and don't implicitly feel like
| it's all on you to save the world, then you can do some good.
| Maybe it's "think globally, act locally" in some niche, or
| maybe something else.
|
| Then you can also carefully increase your news exposure, with a
| newfound awareness to when you're just getting worked over by
| an engagement/manipulation algorithm.
|
| At the same time as you take a break, try not to overdo the
| distancing and accidentally become one of the people who need
| to pay more attention and care about things outside themselves.
| admissionsguy wrote:
| I feel the same, but about the opposite side. Perhaps we are
| just too caught up in the media frenzy.
| papito wrote:
| What is the opposite side?
| rr808 wrote:
| > Everything is on fire, all the time. I envy the people who
| can tune out the world and pretend as if we are not living in a
| historic time,
|
| I can understand but its always been this way. Financial
| collapse in 2008 was probably more stressful for most people.
| 9/11 and wars in ME. Dotcom bubble. Gulf war. Crash of 87. Iron
| curtain coming down and dissolution of USSR. Economic upheaval
| of Reagan. 70s economic collapse, crime wave, Nixon/Watergate,
| war in Vietnam. Nuclear war threat. End of segregation in the
| 60s, WW2 etc etc
|
| The only difference now is that we're more wired.
| papito wrote:
| You can't just list big events and compare them with what is
| happening today. Having grown up in the USSR, it is rather
| different for me when I watch the United States democracy
| coming to an end. It is absolutely not the same.
|
| But then again, if you are a native-born, I can see how it's
| easy to have no idea about what is happening or where this is
| going.
| clcaev wrote:
| None of these compare to a presidential candidate who
| publicly muses about being a dictator and is elected
| anyway... and this was only foreshadowing what he
| orchestrated on Jan 6th.
| habosa wrote:
| I've been working on my "startup" (codeapprove.com) in addition
| to my full time job and busy social life for about 18 months now
| (no kids though, before anyone asks).
|
| Finding time to build the thing hasn't been all that hard. A few
| hours a week is actually a lot if you've already pre-solved some
| problems in your mind during downtime and you're really just
| cranking out work with few blockers.
|
| The hard part is customers. Acquiring them and keeping them can't
| really be scheduled. This requires random bursts of time and
| energy when you least expect it that can be pretty incompatible
| with a normal job. Maybe if you're really good at marketing and
| UX you can find ways to passively get self-service customers but
| most people who can build software lack those skills. And still,
| someone has to do customer support.
|
| So I ended up with the classic hacker's folly: a great product
| with few users. Oh well, I love building it.
| adrianmsmith wrote:
| It would be good to know how successful the author's startup
| was/is. I mean OK one can follow this advice and get work on the
| startup done, but is it enough to make a _successful_ startup, or
| was it all the effort just a waste of time at the end of it?
| zhte415 wrote:
| Exercise. Don't drink. Eat well. Skip news/media that adds
| nothing. Read vociferously. Get plenty of rest time. Appreciate
| the downtime because it's not downtime it's valuable reflection
| time. Doing several slow things at the same time works.
|
| Examples: Walk to the subway, bus. Don't be in a hurry. When
| getting to the stop, take 3 or 4 minutes to chill and appreciate
| the sky, plants, whatever you have.
|
| Wake up earlier so as not to be in a hurry. Eat satiably. Cook if
| you like. Cook a little more and take a packed lunch. Cook for
| loved ones. Take the stairs not the escalator. Read a book on the
| subway about something completely different than your 'jobs'.
| Listen to a quality podcast while doing morning stretching or
| abs.
|
| Wish others a nice day. Being positive breeds positivity. Plan
| ahead minimising catch-up. Engage in office banter, do more.
| Always be the owner. Synergies happen in the funniest of places.
| Never feel guilty for reading around or into a subject more
| than's needed. Don't feel guilty for not knowing something. Give
| time generously. Take lots of breaks. Laugh vigorously when
| realising something was so simple. Take another break. Do not
| work a job that measures you on time. Drink plenty of water.
| Never forget what's most important for you.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| What's the difference between news media that adds/doesn't add
| benefit?
| jddil wrote:
| No news adds benefits. It was designed and refined to trigger
| your outrage and voyeurism. Unless it's hyper local news
| (that mostly doesn't exist anymore) it's junk and will make
| your life worse.
| [deleted]
| dismantlethesun wrote:
| General tech news adds no benefit. However, news specific to
| your industry segment can add benefit.
|
| For example, knowing a gas pipeline is shut down leading to
| temporarily high gas prices is useful if you are in
| logistics. However knowing that Intel just made a faster chip
| is not so useful. Similarly, the political stage of Belize is
| only useful if you have work or family that is impacts by
| that.
|
| Just knowing it otherwise is only useful for fun
| conversations.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| News about politics is also helpful. You can decide who to
| support, or to run for office yourself, or to campaign on
| behalf of others, or at least donate.
|
| Society does foment a favorable environment for you to
| exist in without effort. And if it does, then you are lucky
| to be in the right place at the right time, and assume the
| favorable environment is temporary.
| dismantlethesun wrote:
| I agree on that. If you're going to be involved in the
| political process you should a minimum keep track of the
| politicians on what they're doing at any given time.
| vcryan wrote:
| News about politics is extremely addictive. Rather than
| checking daily, or twice a day, or 50 times a day, you
| could block off a few hours once per month and get
| whatever the benefit is a person gets from keeping track
| of political topics.
| ChildOfChaos wrote:
| To be honest I am bad with this, but I think really the
| only time it's actually useful is at any point you can do
| something about it, else the rest of the time you can
| avoid. Even a few hours a month seems wasteful to me,
| there will be a lot of stories playing out and
| speculation that doesn't mean anything to you right now.
|
| Really only at elections is when it seems important to
| me, do your research and go deeper than most and then
| make your choice, but avoid the news the rest of the time
| seems the optional thing to me.
|
| You tend to hear about things anyway, everyone has an
| opinion on this thing and they love to share it, no
| matter how much they know about the topic, the best way
| to not get suckered in, is not to follow it at all.
|
| I've in no way managed to apply this to my life yet
| though, but it is my goal.
| vcryan wrote:
| I think he was being kind. While not everyone would agree
| with this, my lived experience is that the "news" or news
| media is rarely useful, often stressful and significantly
| more bad than good in terms of its impact on my mental well-
| being and focus.
|
| Having said this, there are two areas that keep people
| attached to the news: a concern about become uninformed or
| being (or being perceived as) apathetic to the problems
| people face in the world.
|
| Afraid of being uninformed? Read books on current topics.
|
| Afraid of becoming apathetic? Donate to the non-profits that
| are positioned to do the most good in the areas of your
| concern.
|
| Boom -- now you are informed and helpful while also
| undistracted and undisturbed by unhelpful, advertiser-driven
| news media.
| idlehand wrote:
| I find it relieving to be living in a world where things
| are not static. So I read as much news as I can, every day.
| I also recognize that I have very little impact on whatever
| is being reported on, and that it has very little impact on
| me.
|
| I think a lot of people have to let go of the idea that
| they will somehow save the world. Embrace your
| insignificance. It's just as much a blessing as a curse.
| [deleted]
| daliusd wrote:
| What if it is government sponsored media and there are
| rules that it must be independent from politicians?
| vcryan wrote:
| I think you are speaking about accuracy. My point is that
| I don't benefit from a continuous stream of information
| about current events interspersed with advertisements --
| it just doesn't serve me whether it is accurate or not.
| stavros wrote:
| Write short sentences. Use plenty of periods. Makes you sound
| wise. Do what people online say. Don't consider your own
| preferences. Don't have fun. If you do, make it short. You have
| to be productive. You have to make every moment count. You have
| to produce. You have to have output. An unproductive moment is
| a wasted moment. Remember: one day you
| thegagne wrote:
| https://youtu.be/pVQeP5vRP5E
| westoncb wrote:
| Irony is that this dismissal itself is so typical in style I
| sensed the presence of a twitter account by the end of the
| second sentence.
| ChildOfChaos wrote:
| I think this is the key.
|
| The two extremes. Focus hard, but then have real downtime, slow
| time, stillness. Time to just let your mind and thoughts
| wonder, to relax, walk, meditate, listen to music, clean, just
| sit down and do nothing for a bit.
|
| Cut out news and social media, cut out the noise, replace it
| with that kinda down time, real downtime, not this grey area
| that feels like relaxing but isn't, sometimes it feels like
| work and isn't too (like watching youtube, reading articles on
| productivity etc), this is the grey area.
|
| Avoid as much grey activities as possible.
|
| Either real work and real focus, or real downtime and stillness
| and as little of anything in-between as possible.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| > Wish others a nice day.
|
| I was mentally rolling my eyes at the parent post, because it
| seemed to have a lot of platitudes. Well, not _platitudes_ per
| se, probably just good suggestions that get repeated a lot but
| rarely followed.
|
| But the "Wish others a nice day." one stood out. It seems like
| great advice, and for some reason it just wasn't in my mental
| list of good ideas. So thanks!
|
| And, I hope you have a good day!
| izietto wrote:
| It reminds me the lyrics of this song:
| https://www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/Radiohead/Fitter-Happier
| aftergibson wrote:
| At first I thought it was these lyrics!
| Fitter happier More productive Comfortable
| Not drinking too much Regular exercise at the gym (3
| days a week) Getting on better with your associate
| employee contemporaries At ease Eating well (no
| more microwave dinners and saturated fats) A patient,
| better driver A safer car (baby smiling in back seat)
| Sleeping well (no bad dreams)
|
| It's so easy just be a better person! Thanks internet
| comment.
| [deleted]
| 999900000999 wrote:
| Don't waste all day dwelling on negative things.
|
| My first girlfriend, after we broke up gave me a lifelong
| lesson. You can always control your attitude, more
| specifically. You can always control what you tell people. If
| you tell people about all these bad things that are going on
| all the time, they're just not going to want to be around you.
|
| With my first girlfriend, had I just closed my mouth and kept
| these things to myself. And it was bad stuff, I was going
| through an eviction.
|
| Maybe things would have worked out .
|
| The other thing though, you just have to be grateful for right
| now.
|
| To paraphrase
|
| Thich Nhat Hanh
|
| Fine piece with every step
| jrh206 wrote:
| There's balance to be had. Keeping everything inside isn't
| healthy either.
| xapata wrote:
| Sharing sadness and frustrations is different than
| complaining.
| lisper wrote:
| My approach to this is: I talk about the bad things that
| are going on in my life, but I always follow up with all of
| the good things: I live in a country that is not at war. I
| am not homeless. I have access to hot and cold running
| water that is (mostly) safe to drink. I even have air
| conditioning, which in many parts of the world is an
| unimaginable luxury. So yes, there might be some bad shit
| going on in my life at the moment, but no matter how bad
| things get they can almost certainly get worse. And unless
| you are living in an underdeveloped country or Ukraine,
| they can almost certainly get a whole lot worse [1]. So
| yes, I vent about things. But I always follow up by
| counting my blessings.
|
| [1] https://blog.rongarret.info/2009/10/travelogue-beauty-
| and-de...
| hey2022 wrote:
| That sounds like an unnatural conversation to have with a
| partner. Sharing specific negative things about your
| immediate experience and then slapping "I am grateful
| that I don't live in a war-torn country" on top.
|
| Saying that, I agree that reminding _yourself_ of such
| things helps to keep a more healthy perspective, just not
| sure sharing that in a conversation is helpful.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| > You can always control your attitude, more specifically.
| You can always control what you tell people.
|
| Controlling one's attitude and tongue are excellent goals,
| and they usually pay great dividends.
|
| It's probably worth mentioning that good mental health goes a
| long way in achieving those goals. Lack of sleep, high
| stress, drug addiction, etc. all make those things harder.
|
| I just mention this so that people facing those headwinds
| don't add to their troubles by feeling guilty about things
| that (at the moment) are somewhat beyond their control.
| nyokodo wrote:
| > Maybe things would have worked out
|
| It is highly unlikely that things would have worked out given
| your description. A healthy relationship is an honest one and
| sometimes life sucks and a supportive partner will help you
| through those times, and vice versa. Having said that, being
| constantly hyper-negative is also unhealthy and a
| relationship is unlikely to last if one only ever focuses on
| the negative side of things. If that describes you then that
| is something that a therapist can help you understand the
| address.
| 999900000999 wrote:
| I'm going to disagree here, we were only 19. It was just
| too much for even me to handle, I did have another friend
| and she was very supportive but I absolutely don't blame my
| first girlfriend for leaving.
| robocat wrote:
| You should be able to find a counterfactual 19yo self, a
| person similar to you with similar stresses with a
| similar partner: a person who kept their "bad things"
| inside and did not share them with their partner.
| nyokodo's point is keeping stresses "hidden" is also
| probably similarly destructive in a relationship.
|
| Either way, I am pleased you reflect on your past and try
| different techniques to avoid making the same mistakes.
| Personally, I just make different mistakes!
|
| Another thing to be careful of is that we edit our pasts:
| getting reliable information on cause and effect is
| extremely difficult. We all create narratives that don't
| exactly fit the facts. Not saying you did that, just to
| try and avoid making that mistake which is easy to see in
| others but hard to see in ourselves. Good luck.
| endymi0n wrote:
| But trust me on the sunscreen!
| tepitoperrito wrote:
| This comment is some kind of spiritual gold. I would upvote
| twice if I could but since I can't...
|
| The ancient Masters were profound and subtle. Their wisdom was
| unfathomable. There is no way to describe it; all we can
| describe is their appearance.
|
| They were careful as someone crossing an iced-over stream.
| Alert as a warrior in enemy territory. Courteous as a guest.
| Fluid as melting ice. Shapable as a block of wood. Receptive as
| a valley. Clear as a glass of water.
|
| Do you have the patience to wait till your mud settles and the
| water is clear? Can you remain unmoving till the right action
| arises by itself?
|
| The Master doesn't seek fulfillment.. Not seeking, not
| expecting, she is present, and can welcome all things.
| teddyh wrote:
| (Those are quotes from the Tao Te Ching, IIRC.)
| streetcat1 wrote:
| Don't waste your time. You are trying to make a baby with a Cxx
| on.
|
| You will never finish with a day job.
|
| I work full time on a startup / 15 hours a day / 7 days a week ,
| and still not have time.
| fer_momento wrote:
| Depends of what you want to build. Going all-in is a valid
| option but not the only one. It is possible to have a job, get
| 8+ hours of sleep, and also run a profitable side project. This
| is especially important for first time founders.
| [deleted]
| fer_momento wrote:
| The startup scene is often romanticized as an all-or-nothing
| endeavor, where you either go all-in and burn the midnight oil or
| you don't make it at all.
|
| Well, I think that's bullshit.
|
| There's nothing wrong with taking things slow, and working on
| your business on the side while you keep your day job.
| rxhernandez wrote:
| I literally thought that was the case until I went full-time on
| my start-up. I was delusional to think I could do a 9-5 well
| while trying to build a company.
|
| Frankly, I should have realized this was the case when some
| moderately complex problems felt impossible (because I was
| giving the best hours of my day to my 9-5).
| rsstack wrote:
| I think people get confused by the wide spectrum of
| businesses that the word "start-up" represents. You can't
| build a VC-backed 10-person B2B company as a side gig. You
| can build a small profitable SaaS business on a few hours a
| week.
| enraged_camel wrote:
| >> You can build a small profitable SaaS business on a few
| hours a week.
|
| Sure but that's a wide spectrum too. How profitable? Do you
| want to make $200/mo profit, $2,000/mo or $20,000/mo? You
| can do the first with a few hours a week. The second, maybe
| if you're lucky or have a wide network you can sell to. The
| last one? I doubt it's possible with anything less than
| 20-30 hours a week, at least upfront.
| mehphp wrote:
| The second definitely doesn't require luck. I built a
| $3k/mo app in a couple hours a day for a few weeks.
|
| People think it's all luck because they build things just
| hoping someone will buy it and when they don't "ah well,
| bad luck on this one".
|
| Instead you need to find a problem people actually have
| first and then build something to solve that. Then its
| much more likely that someone will pay for that solution.
|
| It is not luck when you hear several people say something
| like, "I really wish it was easier to do x" and then you
| build a solution that makes doing x easier.
|
| It most certainly is luck if you just think of a random
| cool idea and it happens to be profitable.
| fer_momento wrote:
| Correct! I may have forgotten to include a disclaimer that
| I am only referring to first time builders, those who want
| to build a lifestyle business or just test the waters with
| a new product idea.
| Silverback_VII wrote:
| What I don't not get is that people are often way more
| productive in their job than when they are trying to do
| something on their own...
|
| I don't get it insofar that the latter (your own goal, e.g.
| becoming a writer or your own business) has way more
| potential in the long run than the former.
| fer_momento wrote:
| Most people are more motivated by external factors than
| internal ones, so they simply work better when they are
| accountable to someone else. When you are working on your
| own, there isn't usually anyone making sure that you are
| actually getting things done.
| lixtra wrote:
| One thing might be: In a paid job you can focus on your
| job. As founder/freelancer you have to handle everything.
| Some people are good in diving deep but slow to context
| switching.
|
| In best case they can pair with a co-founder that has a
| good intuition about ,,good enough" and handles all the
| chores. But then a co-founder also adds its own set of
| problems.
| bryzaguy wrote:
| It's easier to risk failure at things that aren't important
| to you is one example. A great book explaining all the
| reasons why is War of Art by Steven Pressfield.
| alaaalawi wrote:
| YMMV but either way its for the owners. The rest are more or
| less in a job
| scottLobster wrote:
| Yeah, also what's wrong with making a product first, marketing
| it, and seeing if it sells? No need for this landing-page-with-
| fake-pre-orders lying to your customers overhead.
|
| I guess that's the luxury of keeping your day job. If the
| product doesn't sell, oh well. Bills are still paid. Try again.
| If you're banking your entire livelihood on the product, you
| have to know there's at least some chance of success, even if
| it means alienating potential customers with bullshit
| jasonlfunk wrote:
| > Yeah, also what's wrong with making a product first,
| marketing it, and seeing if it sells? No need for this
| landing-page-with-fake-pre-orders lying to your customers
| overhead.
|
| The overhead of actually building the product is WAY more
| than just making a landing page.
|
| Plus, knowing that there are people who are willing to give
| you money for a thing is very motivating.
|
| Also, having pre-customers while you are building is a great
| way to know which parts of the product to focus on. The
| features you think are important may not be what your
| customers think.
|
| Certainly there is a range of approaches in between vaporware
| and building in secret. But if you actually want to make
| money, you should start selling as soon as possible, even
| before it's ready.
| scottLobster wrote:
| Sounds an awful lot like that kid in the group project who
| lies about doing their piece of the work and then throws it
| together at the last minute out of guilt. Tends to result
| in a half-assed, low-quality effort that brings the rest of
| the group down.
|
| Granted you should establish hard criteria for an MVP and
| not try to make everything perfect, the temptation for
| feature creep as you further explore the problem space is
| real. But if I'm offering someone a shovel I at least want
| a competently built V1 of a shovel, not a pinky swear that
| I'll have an awesome shovel for them in 2 months.
|
| Features are a little trickier. Whatever the customers say
| they want may or may not be what they actually want,
| depending on the specific context of course. Or the
| customers say they want X, but they aren't actually willing
| to pay for X. There's a lot of noise that looks like
| signal. You see it in startup blogs all the time "I thought
| customers wanted this, and they kinda did, but it was
| actually this other variant that we didn't discover until
| we analyzed data from the first year of sales" Rather than
| debate on what may or may not be on the other side of the
| hill, I'd land on the side of going and taking a look, even
| if that means some extra time/effort/money climbing said
| hill. You'll at least get a good workout and be stronger
| for it even if there's nothing of value on the other side.
| Meanwhile your day job covers the downside risk :)
|
| I guess it comes down to your last line "if you actually
| want to make money". At what scale and to what end? Waiting
| to start selling until you have something to sell might
| technically be leaving money on the table, but if it makes
| enough money and results in a better overall product, and
| you have a more long-term outlook, can be worth it. Granted
| not every sector and objective is amenable to that
| strategy, but there are so many in this space who dismiss
| it outright as naive, as if business with physical products
| don't do it all the time.
| mooreds wrote:
| > Yeah, also what's wrong with making a product first,
| marketing it, and seeing if it sells?
|
| It breaks your heart? To spend all kinds of time building
| something, figuring out the best way to solve a problem,
| tweaking stuff, banging your head against a wall, all to
| announce it to the world and then? Crickets? (Source: been
| there.)
|
| Put another, more bloodless way: opportunity cost?
|
| Not to say you can't have fun making a product no one wants,
| but it's more fun to make a product that people want.
|
| I hear what you are saying about landing pages lying, but if
| it says "coming soon" is that a lie (assuming you really plan
| to build it soon if the demand is there)?
| scottLobster wrote:
| And if your requisite level of demand isn't there then
| "coming soon" is a complete lie.
|
| I suppose I would never want to start a business with a
| product that I didn't at least get some intrinsic benefit
| out of building. Worst case scenario I learn new skills
| that can be applied to future endeavors. Besides, if you
| solve a problem and no one is willing to pay for it, well
| at least the problem got solved. Maybe that tool will be
| useful later in some other context.
|
| Plus I don't like relationships built on sand. Fake-it-
| till-you-make-it is to business what steroids/doping are to
| athletics. Sure maybe it's necessary at the Cutthroat-
| Business-Olympics where everyone's doing it and you won't
| win if you don't, but most businesses aren't playing at
| that level, and do the equivalent of taking Lance-
| Armstrong-Style blood transfusions to win their local bike
| club's weekend race.
| mooreds wrote:
| > And if your requisite level of demand isn't there then
| "coming soon" is a complete lie.
|
| That's an interesting perspective. You aren't lying when
| you post "coming soon" originally but later it turns into
| a lie?
|
| Frankly, not sure how you solve this chicken and egg
| problem in a way other than what we've already detailed:
|
| * put the chicken first: build the product (at least as
| minimal of a product as you can). Invest your time.
|
| * put the egg first: suss out demand (and don't build it
| if you can't find any). See if anyone will bite based on
| words, not product.
|
| You can try to split the difference. By building a bit,
| using low code tools, for example, or by being
| transparent that you are thinking about building this and
| talking to potential customers about what they'd want.
|
| I think that "coming soon" if you don't plan to build the
| product at all is a baldfaced lie; we can probably both
| agree that is bad.
|
| Personally, I think that "coming soon" as a way to assess
| demand, especially if you send out a message saying
| "things changed, sorry I won't be building this" (not
| that I've ever gotten that kind of message) is not a lie.
| Things change all the time.
|
| Have you ever left a job? Typically one doesn't say out
| and out "I'm leaving" until they submit a resignation
| letter. Is being part of the team and being enthusiastic
| about the company and product even if you are
| interviewing lying?
|
| You can also lower the impact on your users during the
| "coming soon" phase by
|
| * refunding their money if you charged them (this is a no
| brainer, hopefully everyone agrees with this)
|
| * providing some additional resources (presumably you
| have some insight into the problem space you could share,
| even if you don't build the product) during the "coming
| soon" exploration process
|
| * asking for emails rather than $$$ while you are unsure
| of delivering the end goal. You could ask for emails
| first and then $$$ later.
| scottLobster wrote:
| I guess I was picturing it as "coming soon" but with
| unrevealed contingencies. So it's a lie by omission. You
| actually haven't made the decision that anything is
| "coming soon", because the contingencies haven't been met
| yet.
|
| Being transparent would be something like
| Kickstarter/Indiegogo, where you have stated objectives
| and if those objectives aren't reached the thing doesn't
| happen, or happens to lesser degrees. I'm not sure how
| you would translate that into a market-research product
| page, as you'd need a way to positively spin the fact
| that the product doesn't actually exist yet. You're
| basically seeking funding more than marketing a product.
|
| Emails would probably be the best happy middle ground.
| People sign up for news/info regarding a product that's
| under development, no promises are made, hell if you
| decide to start development you could even publish a dev
| blog documenting the experience and providing updates,
| depending on how technical your audience is.
|
| I've just read so many startup-advice blogs that seem to
| recommend bait-and-switching the customer just to gauge
| interest. That seems counterproductive to me in the long
| run. Sure maybe the world is big enough for software that
| you can afford to screw over some people and there will
| be plenty more where they came from if demand is good.
| All I know is despite moving some distance away in recent
| years my family still goes to this one independent
| mechanic we discovered. He's gone out of his way to save
| us money when he could have screwed us (I requested
| repairs that were unnecessary), takes time to explain the
| repairs he's making and why, charges a decent rate
| (frankly I'd pay more if he asked) and hasn't broken
| anything. That's the kind of relationship I would want
| with my customers, and sure enough he gets every oil
| change from us despite being a 35 minute drive away.
| hodgesrm wrote:
| > Well, I think that's bullshit.
|
| I think people underestimate why running a startup is so time-
| consuming. Having real users with real business needs is like
| having a family with children. You don't take it easy when your
| kids hurt themselves or need help with homework. In the same
| way if a customer is having problems and needs a fix ASAP. In
| either case if it happens at 5am on Saturday morning you are on
| the hook to ensure it gets fixed--either do it yourself or
| roust out others to help, then make sure it gets done right,
| _then_ make sure it does not happen again.
|
| Over time you eliminate common problems. Moreover you can hire
| people to handle these issues so they don't bubble up all the
| time. But in the meantime there's no viable way other than
| putting in a lot of time.
|
| p.s. Many startups are blessed with an offering that only needs
| 9-5 answers. I've never worked in one, though. It sounds really
| nice. ;)
| blueboo wrote:
| Not romanticised -- VCs rationally cultivate a standard of
| founders spending every resource, personal, spiritual, and
| financial, towards making their investment back 1% more likely.
| Having a life "Plan B" is taken as a Bad Sign. After all,
| necessity (and deprivation) is the mother of startup invention,
| etc. all the better of necessity is existential.
|
| And after a day of meetings, the VCs lean back on their chairs
| and scratch their head over the dismal state of their founders'
| mental health...
| sicp-enjoyer wrote:
| There are important psychological advantages to going on all
| in. If you still have a job, every time the going gets tough
| you can just focus back to your job. Startups typically require
| much more stress and effort to succeed than jobs do.
| fer_momento wrote:
| There are both good and bad psychological implications.
| Personally, for me it allows me to approach my business
| without the pressure that it needs to be successful. Having a
| more relaxed attitude prevents me from panicking and making
| stupid mistakes.
| dustingetz wrote:
| I did this for 27 months, from 2019 - 2021! I'm in my 30s & no
| kids (dedicated my life to the startup - which is table stakes
| these days). I'm in the USA and a key was to work with UK/Euro
| engineers for the startup, which let me arbitrage both COL and
| especially timezone. COL wise I fit two uk/euro eng salaries + my
| own humble costs into my USA eng salary. Timezone wise I got on
| zoom to Europe from 7am-9am ET Weds-Fri and 7am-12pm on weekends.
| Which left me weekend afternoons for my own startup deliverables
| - we had a long term paid pilot which my team supported but I had
| to personally deliver to ensure success.
|
| Living wise, for the six months leading Covid I had to be in the
| work office in Baltimore, which was 2 hours away from my home
| near Philadelphia, so I had a second apartment 10 mins from
| work/gym where I lived Monday - Thursday. This made it really
| easy to focus as there was nothing to do but work, exercise, eat,
| read and do email, talk to fiancee, go to bed, zoom at 7am. If
| anything, WFH starting in 2020 made it harder to focus. I also
| don't drink.
|
| Relationship wise, the startup existed before my relationship and
| deeply influenced mate selection/compatibility.
|
| Job wise I was an eng manager / product manager for an early
| stage cloud product which I shepherded from concept to post-
| revenue and early sales, it was not a soft FAANG job, it was
| intense but I was able to get everything done in 40 hours a week,
| near flawless delivery, never dropped a ball. Yes I am uniquely
| skilled/driven but most founders are, that's why you're doing it
| right? Burnout was not really an issue for me, probably because
| of deep belief and conviction in the startup and willingness to
| do "whatever it takes" to succeed. (We are succeeding, btw!).
|
| Mental health wise, through Covid we all gained weight and I had
| some depression due to the relentless beating of corporate life.
| Hired a psychologist to help me process those frustrations and
| also work through my everyday failings as an entrepreneur (also
| normal). Eventually the startup made enough progress to raise
| some money and transition out of the job, but I think I could
| have sustained it indefinitely if that's what it took.
| Silverback_VII wrote:
| It's all-or-nothing (if you have to keep your job to pay the
| bills so be it) otherwise the forces who want to hold you back
| will be too strong.
|
| You will most notably see it in your own social circle or family.
| People will put a spoke in your wheel in crucial moments or as
| soon as you want to take off. If you have not a strong will to
| move forward this will get you.
|
| Even little and well-meant stuff like "you need a break", "you
| need sleep" or "you need a balanced life" are ways of them(and
| also yourself) to sabotage your efforts.
|
| Depression is the result of lack of progress/purpose and not of
| too much work or lack of sleep. Therefore the best it to optimize
| always with the goal in mind.
| _gabe_ wrote:
| > You will most notably see it in your own social circle or
| family. People will put a spoke in your wheel in crucial
| moments or as soon as you want to take off. If you have not a
| strong will to move forward this will get you.
|
| Perhaps they're not trying to "sabotage your efforts", but
| instead, they are the ones who know you best and can see the
| effect overworking is having on you. It's amazing how much
| perspective shifts from the person in the thick of it to the
| observer.
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| Try reading r/overemployed for inspiration and tricks
| fer_momento wrote:
| In some ways, working on my startup is like playing video games
| for me - it's just too much fun. But burnout might come from
| not being able to work on it, actually.
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