[HN Gopher] Dillo web browser domain is for sale
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       Dillo web browser domain is for sale
        
       Author : marttt
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2022-08-13 09:06 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dillo.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dillo.org)
        
       | blippage wrote:
       | I have a lot of respect for Dillo. It uses the FLTK, and is the
       | very definition of "non-bloat". The real problem is that nearly
       | all website render terribly. It just can't keep up with the
       | complexity that it the modern web. It's a real shame.
       | 
       | Lately I have become interested in the older protocols like
       | Gopher, and some of the bulletin boards. There are some recent
       | protocols that address the complexity of the web: Gemini and
       | Spartan (which is Gemini without TLS, basically).
        
         | marttt wrote:
         | +1, it is also a joy to customize via the well-documented
         | config file. E.g. adding custom search operators is very
         | straightforward and flexible. With some unix-y thinking, one
         | could probably also accomplish some other useful tricks on the
         | address bar, simply by writing a string substitution one-liner
         | into the rc file. Compare that to about:config, Add-ons, etc.
         | Ha.
         | 
         | I somehow also very much enjoyed the not-so-good rendering. One
         | may get used to it, I guess; even become fond of it -- you'll
         | become more focused on the content/text and less on the layout.
         | YMMW, but I always disabled all CSS and images. Also, I only
         | recently (after roughly a decade of Dillo usage) noticed the
         | --fullwindow (-f) command line option. This gives an extremely
         | nice HTML renderer that loads in a second.
         | 
         | I've been curious about the tiny Picolisp language, which,
         | IIRC, uses localhost-bound HTML as its default GUI (1,2).
         | Sending Picolisp commands from a terminal window to a
         | --fullwindowed Dillo instance would make a very cool
         | environment.
         | 
         | Dillo is lightweight, modular, one-thing-well. Extremely user-
         | friendly, simple to tailor to one's needs. A project that has
         | managed to avoid bloat for 22 years. Unix philosophy at its
         | best. Also, the executable is 872kb. Compare that to, uh, some
         | other browsers.
         | 
         | It is probably my all time favorite browser for the X
         | environment.
         | 
         | Even if one finds its HTML capabilities lacking (I don't; I see
         | it as a feature, not a bug), then maybe, thanks to the plugin
         | architecture, it would make a nice renderer for e.g. Gemini.
         | 
         | 1.
         | http://rosettacode.org/wiki/GUI_component_interaction#PicoLi...
         | 
         | 2. https://picolisp.com/wiki/?guiscripting
        
         | nmz wrote:
         | You could use it for both gopher[0]/gemini[1] as well.
         | 
         | [0]:
         | https://git.scuttlebot.io/%25n7g%2BJlKZjPV6CRfSQL5YUWk%2BxYg...
         | 
         | [1]:
         | https://git.scuttlebot.io/%25V0D7DtSnZyyAp1NbgOJF2ZAFMeUy9eX...
         | 
         | The sad thing is having a pure web browser that intermixes
         | correctly, perhaps something that uses tabbed, surf, and a
         | dillo/luakit based thing for true "browser" support, browser in
         | this case meaning: "supports more than http/https/html".
        
         | bArray wrote:
         | > The real problem is that nearly all website render terribly.
         | It just can't keep up with the complexity that it the modern
         | web. It's a real shame.
         | 
         | I was thinking since quite a while now to write a wrapper
         | around the Serenity OS browser [1] that supports JS, CSS and
         | WASM, and passes ACID 3 tests [2].
         | 
         | I did have a quick look at the source, but couldn't think of a
         | nice way to wrap it as it's quite closely tied to the Serenity
         | OS GUI.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/...
         | 
         | [2] https://lunduke.substack.com/p/serenityos-web-browser-
         | passes...
        
           | lionkor wrote:
           | Isnt there an effort to port the serenity gui (LibGUI?) to
           | *nix?
        
           | Macuyiko wrote:
           | You're in luck, Andreas has been hacking on that since a
           | couple of months. They're calling the Linux version of the
           | browser Ladybird: https://github.com/awesomekling/ladybird
        
             | homarp wrote:
             | brief discussion
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31987506
             | 
             | The GH page also has "Experimental Android Build Steps"
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | If Gemini interests you, I'd appreciate your feedback on an
         | approach with similar goals I call KyuWeb:
         | https://github.com/GarrettAlbright/KyuWeb
        
         | SyneRyder wrote:
         | Oh wow, I hadn't heard of Spartan, but it looks like what I'm
         | after. Gemini is interesting, but I didn't like how TLS and
         | Unicode rules out a lot of old retro machines from being able
         | to access it.
         | 
         | Looks like Spartan is already supported by the excellent
         | Lagrange [1] Gopher/Gemini browser from v1.13 onwards, so I'm
         | happy to discover this! Thanks for sharing!
         | 
         | [1] https://gmi.skyjake.fi/lagrange/
        
           | blippage wrote:
           | Glad you found it useful. You don't have to use unicode if
           | you don't want to, of course. Spartan uses the same gemtext
           | format that Gemini does. A big appeal to me is that it's
           | easier to write gemtext files that gophermaps. Gophermaps
           | feel like a kludge in comparison.
           | 
           | The cool thing about something like Spartan is that you could
           | implement a browser on a microcontroller. HTML would be a
           | lost cause. Imagine something like an ESP32 with a touch-
           | screen. You could create a complete browsing device for less
           | than 25 quid, say. Likewise for gopher.
           | 
           | If I may be permitted a small plug, I have a forked version
           | of the bombadillo browser here:
           | https://gitlab.com/mcturra2000/bombadillo You can use it on a
           | terminal. It allows you to browse Spartan, which the original
           | does not. It also allows a printing facility, so that you can
           | pipe output to another process.
        
             | vanous wrote:
             | I am happy this all works for you, but be aware that my
             | (and many other peoples') first language requires me to use
             | UTF-8 and after years of struggling I must say yay, utf is
             | great!
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | FWIW, I'd noted the domain was parked a couple of months ago:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31745740
       | 
       | No actual discussion at that time.
        
       | lysergia wrote:
        
       | H8crilA wrote:
       | FWIW Safari's homepage is also sold to the highest bidder,
       | currently Google. The price was $15B for 2021.
       | 
       | https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/25/analysts-google-to-pay-apple-...
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | I find myself using reader mode Safari a lot on iOS.
       | 
       | I wonder if it's feasible to write a browser from scratch that
       | attempts to render just that.
        
       | gurjeet wrote:
       | Sad news :-(
       | 
       | This is why I prefer the projects, at least the small ones, don't
       | try to maintain a domain of their own. Sooner or later the domain
       | will not be renewed, by mistake, loss of interest in maintaining
       | infrastructure, or because the domain holder passes away, etc.
       | 
       | I have changed the Wikipedia page to change the project's website
       | to be http://dillo.sourceforge.net/
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I'd like to see more projects that redefine the web.
       | 
       | The fact that we're stuck at 3 or so browser engines shows that
       | we've reached a dead end in terms of choice.
        
         | balentio wrote:
         | Gotta have time and/or money and then naturally further support
         | in terms of other people to pull that kind of innovation off.
        
       | RunningDroid wrote:
       | Apparently most repos still point to this domain as the homepage
       | for dillo: https://repology.org/project/dillo/information
        
       | butz wrote:
       | Sad to see small browsers go. They are very convenient for a
       | quick read of simple HTML websites, as they start instantly and
       | are very fast, as they usually do not support JavaScript. Good
       | that NetSurf seems to be chugging along with minor updates in
       | git, albeit there were no release for two years...
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | Would love to see a macOS build of NetSurf. It's supported in
         | theory but there's nobody doing builds currently so it probably
         | requires a bit of finagling to actually get done. I tried to do
         | it myself but I just wasn't smart enough.
        
         | marttt wrote:
         | Netsurf has also been ported to the Plan 9 OS fairly recently.
         | https://github.com/netsurf-plan9/netsurf
        
           | pipeline_peak wrote:
           | See, that's the type of enthusiasm that concerns me. In this
           | ever complex www, why would you sweat an ounce anywhere
           | outside of trying to survive?
           | 
           | There're 9 people using Plan 9.
        
         | mhd wrote:
         | > Sad to see small browsers go.
         | 
         | I still miss Arena and Chimera...
        
       | mrweasel wrote:
       | That sucks, I have a weird fascination with Dillo. It didn't
       | really seem like it was going anywhere, but still, it was nice
       | knowing that it was out there.
        
       | bmacho wrote:
       | I loved their download section with the text
       | Downloading Dillo              Dillo is following an evolving
       | software model where every new version shall be better than the
       | previous one; there's no place for unstable releases, so just
       | keep up with the latest one: dillo-3.0.5[0]
       | 
       | I've found it inspirational. (Also they provided all the previous
       | versions, just for case).
       | 
       | ( Also I believe that virtually every software gets worse and
       | worse and worse with time, I usually go for the first versions. )
       | 
       | [0]:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20210212022912/http://www.dillo....
        
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       (page generated 2022-08-13 23:01 UTC)