[HN Gopher] New Intel chips won't play Blu-ray disks due to SGX ...
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       New Intel chips won't play Blu-ray disks due to SGX deprecation
        
       Author : andrew-ld
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2022-08-12 19:25 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
        
       | alfalfasprout wrote:
       | The DRM has been broken for ages now already though?
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | The last time I checked it hasn't been completely publicly
         | broken; you have to request the key for each disc from some
         | offshore pirate server.
        
       | npteljes wrote:
       | "Defective by design" as the FSF eloquently called it.
       | 
       | https://www.defectivebydesign.org/
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | Quite apt for some of the techniques, like:
         | 
         | "BD+ mainly works by adding errors to the video stream, not
         | enough to make it unwatchable but enough to make it unpleasant
         | to watch due to near constant artifacting. These are fixed in
         | official players by using "fixup tables", which are downloaded
         | from the internet and provide a mapping to convert the broken
         | video stream into the correct video stream.
        
           | salawat wrote:
           | ....Someone wrote that software/firmware. I hope there is a
           | special place in hell for them. That is just not cool.
        
             | eric__cartman wrote:
             | I'd rather send the bone headed executive that decided that
             | drm should be a thing on a movie I bought a copy of.
        
             | geraldwhen wrote:
             | Don't blame the carpenter for the architects bad plans. I'm
             | just here to cut wood and make the building match the
             | designs.
        
             | fzfaa wrote:
             | Dude, calm down. It's just DRM for movies.
        
       | DiabloD3 wrote:
       | The article is slightly wrong: I can legally play Blu-rays
       | without SGX, and none of the PCs I have have SGX.
       | 
       | If _your_ Blu-ray player requires SGX, it sounds defective.
        
       | manholio wrote:
       | Luckily, there are people doing Blu-ray digital backups for the
       | disks we own, in open formats unnecumbered by DRM, then store
       | them in large file distribution systems.
        
       | linuxhansl wrote:
       | We know a lot of past humans, in part because we can still read
       | old books.
       | 
       | Image a future when all one can find are digital artifacts and
       | all license servers have been disabled. No e-books, movies, etc,
       | will aid our future selves to decipher what was going on.
       | 
       | (Well, maybe they'll find some TikTok clips.)
        
       | tantalor wrote:
       | I guess in CPU land, "deprecated" and "removed" are synonymous.
       | 
       | Everywhere else, "deprecated" means "it still works but don't use
       | it".
        
       | csdvrx wrote:
       | Now that SGX is dead, can we please get undervolting back?
       | 
       | It was axed due to the risks to SGX safety.
        
         | chx wrote:
         | How could we get this to Intel and partners? This would be
         | amazing. Plundervolt protections make it impossible to remove
         | the EFI variable write protection controlling undervolting. It
         | would only require a BIOS upgrade to unlock it and then we
         | could undervolt our rather power hungry Tiger and Alder Lake
         | CPUs.
        
       | antonymy wrote:
       | DRM only punishes paying customers.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | AnyDVD[1] (Windows only) and MakeMKV[2] (Windows, Mac, and Linux)
       | will allow you to read blu-ray video discs without SGX support.
       | 
       | AnyDVD will allow you to "play" it in the traditional sense by
       | presenting the disc to your player software as unencrypted and
       | unprotected.
       | 
       | With MakeMKV you have to make a copy of the video first, and then
       | play the copy.
       | 
       | Both are paid software. I use MakeMKV on Linux, it works well.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.redfox.bz/en/anydvdhd.html
       | 
       | [2]: https://www.makemkv.com
        
         | babypuncher wrote:
         | MakeMKV will also read 4K Blu-Ray discs. You may not even need
         | a proper 4K Blu-Ray drive, most BDXL capable drives can be made
         | to work using some custom firmware provided by Mike (the
         | developer of MakeMKV).
         | 
         | MakeMKV is "free while in beta". Mike posts a new beta key
         | every few months on their forum. However I implore anyone who
         | can to buy a license. It is a one-time $50 purchase, way
         | cheaper than AnyDVD. This man has spent more than a decade
         | doing God's work.
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | Don't you need a firmware update on the BluRay player to be
         | able to read certain BluRay discs?
        
           | babypuncher wrote:
           | You will likely need custom firmware to read 4K Blu-Ray discs
           | with MakeMKV unless you have a BDXL drive that was purchased
           | before 4K discs came out. These firmwares are provided by the
           | developer of MakeMKV on his forum.
           | 
           | For standard Blu-Ray discs, nothing special is needed. Any
           | Blu-Ray drive will work out of the box.
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | MakeMKV is great. Also works on macOS. You have to use a
         | LibreDrive with it though to rip Blu-rays.
        
         | marcodiego wrote:
         | Does it have anything to do with blue-ray?
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | What is this blue-ray you speak of?
        
           | js2 wrote:
           | The names of these programs is historical. They work with
           | Blu-rays.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | Bookmarking for my list of "why drm is bad".
        
       | Guthur wrote:
       | Remember, you will own nothing and be happy.
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | > The issue impacts Ultra HD Blu-ray discs that use DRM, so if
       | the Blu-ray Disc Association ever decides to lift the strict
       | protections, the playback will return to nominal resolutions
       | (3840 x 2160).
       | 
       | As usual, thank goodness for MakeMKV letting me avoid knowing
       | this was ever an issue: https://makemkv.com/
        
       | RandomBK wrote:
       | > No matter if a movie leaves a streaming service or if the
       | digital rights change in the future, a physical disk makes the
       | content permanently available.
       | 
       | Well, isn't that ironic. Sure, the content is "permanently
       | available" in a technical sense, but it'll hinge on the permanent
       | availability of playback devices deemed suitable by the DRM.
        
         | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
         | It's permanently available if you're willing to fly the black
         | flag. I know a few people who hoard huge amounts of BD-rip
         | movies on their multi-TB NAS at home. That way it's permanently
         | available.
         | 
         | DRM is a scam on the law abiding consumer and the "Blu-ray Disc
         | Association" is a cartel.
         | 
         | Honest question: do people still use PCs to watch BD movies?
         | Have they ever? AFAIK the rare few people who still have a BD
         | movie collections, use dedicated players or their consoles for
         | that. Using a PC for that always seemed like masochism from a
         | UX perspective so it was never popular.
         | 
         | To play the devil's advocate, I think it was too expensive for
         | Intel to invest in patching the SGX IP block vulnerabilities,
         | porting it to smaller nodes, and wasting valuable silicone die,
         | just so the last 5 remaining people on the planet who still use
         | a PC to watch BD movies can now do it from a brand new PC
         | instead of using their existing ones.
         | 
         | So, ultimately this problem backtracks to the use of DRM and
         | why that's bad, not on Intel who can't financially justify
         | supporting such old & niche DRM IP moving forward.
        
           | tenebrisalietum wrote:
           | There was that time around 2002-2007 or so where the "HTPC"
           | was a thing. You had HTPC PC cases that looked like something
           | that would go beneath a TV, various forums talking about TV
           | tuners like Hauppage, etc., CableCARDs, things like Windows
           | XP Media Center Edition/MythTV, etc.
           | 
           | But who watches TV or cable anymore? Not the young people.
           | 
           | BluRay had the dumb luck to be introduced right as the iPhone
           | came out and redefined the consumer electronics landscape.
           | PCs haven't been the forefront of how people entertain
           | themselves since 2014ish unless you're a gamer with a gamer
           | PC.
           | 
           | Me personally I'd rather just buy a $50 Bluray player from
           | Walmart and be done with it.
        
           | vimy wrote:
           | I still watch Blu-ray's on my computer. I'm most likely an
           | exception.
        
       | dwheeler wrote:
       | Blue-Rays and DVDs aren't replaceable by streaming services. The
       | key distinction is that specific videos disappear from streaming
       | services at any time - there are no guarantees. I pay for a
       | number of streaming services, and yet every month things I _used_
       | to be able to see have disappeared from those services.
       | 
       | If you just "want to watch something" but don't care exactly what
       | it is, a streaming service is _great_.
       | 
       | However, if you want to watch a _particular_ movie /show
       | repeatedly, then you want a Blue-Ray or DVD, _not_ a streaming
       | service. No streaming service will guarantee you endless future
       | access to a particular video, and that makes them distinctly
       | different. Buying and downloading a file would also work in
       | theory, but in most cases you can 't legally buy a video file,
       | you can only lease video files for a specific device for a finite
       | indefinite time. So while that's an option that _should_ exist,
       | in practice it usually doesn 't, so disks are the only thing
       | _legally_ available for those who want continuous access.
       | 
       | When I want to watch the a particular show, I want to watch
       | _that_. Not a random show that may or may not be on a streaming
       | service I 'm paying for. The show may not be on _any_ streaming
       | service available to me at a particular point in time. Of course,
       | I could always go to a pirate site and get access to practically
       | everything, but while that 's probably more convenient, I'm
       | trying to do things legally.
       | 
       | I think it's fraudulent for vendors to say that you "buy" a video
       | when you don't get to keep it permanently, but it does happen.
       | What's worse, that fraudulent misuse of the word "buy" confuses
       | some people into mistakenly thinking that disks (like Blue-Rays
       | and DVDs) can be replaced by streaming services. Yes, they have
       | similar purposes, but they are _not_ interchangeable.
        
         | chmod775 wrote:
         | > No streaming service will guarantee you endless future access
         | to a particular video
         | 
         | Apparently neither do Blue-Rays, since about 10 years from now
         | hardware that will read them will become scarce.
         | 
         | In maybe another 5 years it will become an ordeal to get
         | _software_ that can bypass the DRM working on a recent system
         | with whatever Blue-Ray drive you could scrounge up. This may be
         | accelerated by such software becoming even more illegal to
         | create and use.
         | 
         | Additionally these kinds of discs physically degrade within
         | about fifty years tops. Some can become unreadable after a much
         | shorter time. The time range "20-50 years" is often thrown
         | around.
         | 
         | If you want to preserve something long term, _the very first
         | thing_ you should do is strip any DRM, then save it as a
         | "dumb" format on long-term storage. Preferably decentralized
         | with multiple backups - use a torrent?
         | 
         | The Blue-Rays sitting on your shelf aren't _much_ better than
         | some streaming service.
        
         | EMIRELADERO wrote:
         | > I think it's fraudulent for vendors to say that you "buy" a
         | video when you don't get to keep it permanently, but it does
         | happen.
         | 
         | At least one other person thinks that way and agrees with you,
         | and has subsequently filed a lawsuit against Apple for the use
         | of the "Buy" button which contradicts the fine print on their
         | terms. Check out _Andino v. Apple_
        
       | ace2358 wrote:
       | "Blu-ray is just a bag of hurt. It's great to watch the movies,
       | but the licensing of the tech is so complex, we're waiting till
       | things settle down..."
       | 
       | Steve Jobs, 2008
       | 
       | https://www.engadget.com/2008-10-14-steve-jobs-calls-blu-ray...
        
       | qbasic_forever wrote:
       | Not a big surprise because if you actually tried to watch blu-
       | rays purely on a PC you know how much of a horrible, broken
       | experience it has been for more than a decade. I could only get
       | it to work with a very specific commercial version of PowerDVD on
       | Windows years and years ago. Never been able to make it work
       | since then, it's a real cluster.
        
         | acomjean wrote:
         | DRM so good, even owners of the disks can't watch it.
         | 
         | I've always wondered why companies punish those that actually
         | purchased their products. Those that got it though other means
         | have no such problems.
        
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       (page generated 2022-08-12 23:00 UTC)