[HN Gopher] BART charges $6.20 to not ride BART
___________________________________________________________________
BART charges $6.20 to not ride BART
Author : bernardom
Score : 126 points
Date : 2022-08-12 16:23 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (sf.streetsblog.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (sf.streetsblog.org)
| saghm wrote:
| It's been quite a while since I rode BART (I interned in SF in
| 2014, and visited briefly again I think in 2015), but I remember
| noticing that in the list of fares for different stops from the
| given station you're in, riding to the end of the line was
| actually cheaper than stopping at the airport (the second-to-last
| stop IIRC) on one of the lines. Basically, since they knew more
| people would get off at the airport than the stop past it, they
| charged more to get off there. I never did ride all the way to
| the end of the line, but I assumed that they made sure to hike
| the price from that stop to the airport as well so you couldn't
| purposely go there, get off, and then reboard to save a few bucks
| (although I imagine the time spent doing that wouldn't really be
| worth it to most people anyhow).
| hparadiz wrote:
| These are the kind of little things that make me not want to use
| public transportation if I can help it.
|
| This was common for me in Philly. I'd pay to get onto the station
| platform then spend 30 minutes waiting for a train that is
| supposed to come every 10. Then upon realizing it would never
| come I'd end up with the double penalty of not getting a refund
| from SEPTA as well as having to pay for an Uber. Only to the get
| chewed out by my boss at comcast for walking in at 9:45.
|
| Meanwhile all the people coming from the suburbs with an hour
| long delay would get a pass just because they don't live in the
| city.
| mateo411 wrote:
| How often does this really happen? Maybe once per 2000 rides? It
| appears there is a way to get your money back although it might
| be annoying and bureaucratic.
|
| I think there are bigger issues we can focus on with BART. The
| should focus on fixing the signaling so we can get more trains
| through the Transbay tunnel. We should make BART more reliable
| and finish the San Jose extension on time and under budget.
|
| I'm very supportive complaining about public transit and services
| in general, but making sure that BART provides excellent service
| for people who change their mind at the last moment, doesn't seem
| like the best use of their limited resources.
| scottlawson wrote:
| It says right in the article how often this happens. It's
| between 0.37% and 0.73% depending on the day.
| enos_feedler wrote:
| When I paid for BART parking during free hours I just flagged
| the transaction on my credit card as "merchant did not provide
| service" or something to that effect and got my money back. I
| guess if it involves Clipper card you can't easily do this.
| CoffeeOnWrite wrote:
| Clipper has its own way to request a refund. They refund
| first-time excursion fees no questions asked.
| [deleted]
| Kiala wrote:
| In the Netherlands (where I live) most stations have gates. When
| you check in with ov-chipkaart [1], 10 or 20 euro are debited
| until you check out and the fare is settled. However, you have 60
| minutes to check out at the same station without being charged.
| Is that so difficult?
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OV-chipkaart
| legitster wrote:
| Oh man, this happened to me on the last trip. Some of the BART
| layouts and signage are bonkers, and you can easily accidently go
| through turnstiles for the wrong line.
|
| I tried finding someone but there was no staff. I emailed them
| and no response.
|
| I now chalk it up to the "SF hates you" tax I pay every time I
| visit.
| abeppu wrote:
| A related really dumb thing is that in general, the signs in BART
| which indicate the time until the next train on a given line are
| not visible from outside the fare zone. This is especially
| relevant in parts of downtown SF, where you could take BART or
| Muni to go up or down market, and if there's a delay on one, you
| might quite reasonably want to switch to another. The added time
| to find the station agent and get an excursion fee waved is more
| than long enough to miss a muni train. (And needing to see an
| agent when _re-entering_ the system next time can make you miss a
| train again.)
|
| I especially think that, if there's a service disruption, track
| maintenance, cancelled train, etc, BART should _automatically_
| know not to apply an excursion fee, rather than hoping that most
| riders won't ask for a station agent to waive it.
| ProfessorLayton wrote:
| another frustrating thing about the signs on the platform is
| how they spend _almost the entire time not showing train times_
|
| It's almost always showing:
|
| - Elevator updates
|
| - PSAs
|
| - Literally nothing!
|
| Train times are shown for a few seconds at a time! Miss it, and
| prepare to watch text scroll slowly until the train times popup
| again for a few seconds. They're also announcing the exact same
| PSAs audibly, which is great and more accessible anyway.
| nrp wrote:
| I think you mean the signs are "only" visible in the fare zone.
| The canopy improvements project will add signs at the entrances
| showing times for the stations in SF soon:
| https://www.bart.gov/about/planning/sfentrances
| rajbot wrote:
| Two things about excursion fares:
|
| 1. The MUNI "A" Fast Pass doesn't charge excursion fares inside
| SF. If you commute regularly in SF, the Type A Fast Pass is a
| great option, especially if you can get a subsidy from work.
|
| 2. Otherwise, a Bart attendant can scan your ticket, see that you
| recently entered and let you out for free, and fix your account
| so you can get back in without hassle.
| tonywastaken wrote:
| It's a tax on those that have other transportation options when
| BART fails
| wsinks wrote:
| So BART fails, and you decide to leave through the same
| station. If you just walked through the gates, you get charged
| ~$7.
|
| But BART failed, so wouldn't there be some instruction? Would
| you not see the many other people leaving via the emergency
| gate, which doesn't charge you?
|
| I'm confused on how the same station fare is a tax on people
| that have other transportation options. I would agree if you
| said it's a tax on people that accept systems unilaterally.
| jeffbee wrote:
| The problem is that as far as the fare card is concerned you
| are still "inside" the system until you tap out, so you will
| not be able to re-enter the system if you leave without
| tapping out through the emergency gate.
| tonywastaken wrote:
| There's no instruction when there is a delay, besides just
| wait the 30 minutes or pay the tax and get an Uber
| rdegges wrote:
| This has happened to me on numerous occasions. I'm embarrassed to
| admit I didn't even realize it was happening to me for years as
| it wasn't until I scrutinized my Clipper transaction history that
| I noticed it!
|
| They should absolutely remove these, totally insane these fees
| exist in 2022.
| kepler1 wrote:
| It's funny how BART (and most California agencies) put very
| quantifiable costs on people who obey the rules in a way that
| you've foreseen, but in the meantime completely ignore
| farehoppers, freeriders, etc. who simply hop over turnstiles or
| otherwise don't follow the law.
|
| I guess it's too expensive (or "not equitable") to take the time
| to enforce rules that you've created. And we are too nice to
| create firm but unpopular rules for things that do come up.
| kderbyma wrote:
| As someone who is not familiar with this transit system, but
| familiar with my own....this is criminal ... I would have a fit
| to be charged for not using the service.....
|
| we have a different system. timed tickets....or monthly passes or
| day passes....wtf is this robbery.
|
| no offense...but this is the opposite of free market principles
| at work...this is straight extortion
| ribosometronome wrote:
| Free market, extortion, and robbery are not exclusive from each
| other :)
|
| But you're right. Transit like this is rarely the free market
| at work in the US, though, you're right It's operated by a
| governmental entity. It's hard to have competing subway
| systems.
| monkeycantype wrote:
| With the old paper tickets there wasn't a time limit for how long
| it took to complete a journey, and with careful use of multiple
| tickets you could travel between sf and east bay and never pay
| more than the minimum fare. The excursion fare was the only thing
| stopping you riding for free, I wonder if the excursion fare was
| a last minute hack to close out a potential exploit.
| xfitm3 wrote:
| I'd jump the turnstyles on exit. I am happy to risk the
| consequences vs paying to leave the station. That's just bananas!
| floren wrote:
| The problem is that you're still marked as having entered the
| system, but never exited. So the turnstiles won't let you in
| next time you try to enter a station, as I understand it.
|
| The proper SF solution, based on my observations, is to just
| jump the turnstiles every time, going in or going out. I've
| watched guys camped out on the floor shooting up in clear view
| of the attendant, I assume if that flies they probably won't
| chase you down for just jumping a turnstile. (Yes, I do pay
| every time I ride BART, and yes I have been bitten by this
| stupid goddamn charge, and no there wasn't any attendant at the
| station to fix it)
| enos_feedler wrote:
| I recently paid for BART parking garage during free hours because
| there is no sign anywhere that tells you which hours paid parking
| is enforced. I looked it up after I paid for the spot and
| realized I didn't need to. I imagined the reason for this was the
| same. They are making extra money by not informing when you don't
| need to pay, why change it?
| darth_avocado wrote:
| One solution here is that you can actually talk to a bart agent
| and they provide you with a sticker that you can use to get out
| without tapping. You show the sticker at the next reentry to get
| in without tapping again.
|
| The problem though, more often than not, the agents are missing
| from their booths. Also doesn't help if the exit and reentry are
| two different stations.
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| "Also doesn't help if the exit and reentry are two different
| stations."
|
| What about the same station, but on a different day?
| wsinks wrote:
| That is definitely the problem. And I've dealt with it by being
| resilient and having more than one way to use the system. A bit
| of a pain, but there's only one BART and thankfully most others
| don't operate this way.
| CoffeeOnWrite wrote:
| > You show the sticker at the next reentry to get in without
| tapping again
|
| I've been doing this for years and never seen this. 100% of the
| time they want to fix the card and peel the sticker off at the
| outside window, _then_ ask me to tap in at the turnstile.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| This is a strangely editorialized title. Where did $6.20 come
| from? The article repeatedly identifies the fee as amounting to
| $5.75.
| haunter wrote:
| Article is from 2017, it has been increased since to $6.20 or
| $6.40 depending on the page you load
|
| >BART's Excursion Fare is $6.20 (for a Clipper Card) or $6.70
| (regular adult paper ticket).
|
| https://www.bart.gov/guide
|
| >The excursion fare set on January 1, 2020 is $6.40 for Clipper
| and $6.90 for paper tickets.
|
| https://www.bart.gov/tickets
| danans wrote:
| You can go to the kiosk at any BART station and the station
| attendant will put a sticker on your card to indicate that you
| are leaving via the same station you entered and allow you to
| exit via the emergency doors, therefore not incurring the
| excursion fare.
|
| This is in case you decide not to take the train, or forgot
| something at home.
|
| I suspect the excursion fare today is trying to disincentivize
| the use of the trains and stations as shelters by the unhoused.
| But others have pointed out that it is to prevent fare hacking,
| also.
| paulgb wrote:
| > You can go to the kiosk at any BART station and the station
| attendant will put a sticker on your card to indicate that you
| are leaving via the same station you entered and allow you to
| exit via the emergency doors, therefore not incurring the
| excursion fare.
|
| What if you use the phone app and don't have a physical card
| with you?
| CoffeeOnWrite wrote:
| The sticker is just a plain sticker. I would _assume_ they 'd
| let you put it on an alternate surface..
| clintonb wrote:
| The sticker doesn't matter. The phone maintains an open
| "transaction until you swipe it at your destination. It's
| not clear what happens if you leave the the station without
| swiping, and return a few hours/days later. I suspect they
| still charge you for the excursion fare, or a higher
| amount.
| Psyonic wrote:
| Assuming anyone is there, sure. I've changed my mind about BART
| late at night (next train was delay 30m, going to take an Uber
| instead) and had no one there to talk to.
| Lammy wrote:
| > allow you to exit via the emergency doors
|
| If you had to be allowed to exit via emergency doors then they
| wouldn't be very good emergency doors. They're not going to
| chase after you :)
|
| "Jump the turnstile, never pay the toll / Doo-wah diddy and
| bust in with the pre-roll"
| wolfgang42 wrote:
| You can still physically _do_ it even if you're not allowed
| to, yes.
|
| (There's at least one other situation where you might be
| authorized to use the emergency gates sans emergency: a few
| of the stations have the elevators to the platform _outside_
| the paid area for some bizarre reason, so when transiting the
| station by elevator you have to go through the fare gates and
| then immediately leave via the emergency exit to get to the
| train!)
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| The system will have a record of you entering at one station,
| but no record of an exit.
|
| Will that result in a charge or other problem?
|
| (On the London Underground, it would result in a charge, as the
| system is designed to assume you exited _somewhere_ but somehow
| managed to leave without tapping out.)
| wsinks wrote:
| No - any time you have a problem you talk with a BART agent
| at the gate and they sort it out for you.
|
| Are they not present sometimes? Yes. Are they slow / overrun
| by people? Sometimes. But that has little to do with the
| fare.
| CoffeeOnWrite wrote:
| You're correct. When you try to enter next the turnstile will
| error out with "see agent". That's when they fix your card
| and peel the sticker off. Which highlights the total
| ridiculousness: they're asking riders to see an agent twice!
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| > they're asking riders to see an agent twice
|
| Even worse: they're asking NON-riders to see an agent twice
| Glant wrote:
| Looks like this comment from another chain is your answer
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32442280
| tialaramex wrote:
| One thing that surprised early Oyster users on LU was that
| the new system knew about routes. If you live in Zone 3 and
| you travel to a Zone 3 station on the far side of London, you
| could buy a weekly paper ticket that's not valid in Zone 1,
| and it'd let you in (in Zone 3 it's valid) and out (in Zone 3
| again, it's valid) despite your train passing straight
| through Zone 1. However after switching to Oyster weekly the
| computer would look at these journeys and go, er - no, the
| sane routes use Zone 1 so a ticket needs Zone 1 validity...
|
| On day one there was no noticeable symptom. But if your
| Oyster only had a season ticket for outer Zones and your
| route was via Zone 1 the system had surcharged you, and when
| you tried to travel the next day the Oyster has negative
| balance, you can't use it until you pay off the excess. This
| infuriated some travellers, when in reality they had actually
| been cheating (presumably in most cases without realising)
| previously.
|
| Today Oyster can actually track if you insist on taking the
| long route, you tap pink validators at key interchanges you'd
| need to pass through to do your slower and less central route
| avoiding Zone 1, and the system will go OK, fair enough, you
| really did go the long way so keep your money. I expect very
| few people do this.
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| > presumably in most cases without realising
|
| I doubt this. Even as a child I knew that a travelcard must
| be valid for all the zones you travel through. Of course,
| if challenged, someone knowingly cheating would claim they
| didn't realise.
|
| > you tap pink validators at key interchanges > you'd need
| to pass through to do your slower > and less central route
| avoiding Zone 1"
|
| Wow! I had no idea this was a thing. I moved away from
| London in 2010, and now I'm curious to know whether this
| was implemented before or after I left.
| Symbiote wrote:
| It was introduced on 6 September 2009:
| https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-
| releases/2009/septem...
|
| I used this frequently at some point, but it is now so
| long ago I can't remember where. Especially with many
| London Overground routes, it's not necessarily slower.
| Gibbon1 wrote:
| You know what? You've made a good argument to scrap the
| fair machines and make public transit free.
| tialaramex wrote:
| In this particular context by the way (enter and exit same
| station, assume you just tapped in and out as you would
| normally) LU may actually charge "Same station fare" and the
| rules are pretty esoteric.
|
| https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/how-to-pay-and-where-to-buy-
| tickets...
|
| [Edited to add: Stupid web site doesn't have working fragment
| markers, click "Same Station Exits" near the top... ]
|
| In practice, as it explains elsewhere on the site, these
| charges are mostly to discourage attempted fare evasion, and
| if you're a regular user who just does this once in a while
| it'll delete the journeys after it decides this isn't
| suspicious after all, otherwise you need to talk to a human
| if you really didn't travel anywhere.
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| The 'same station exits' section of that page is
| fascinating. The great thing is that most people will never
| need to worry about this, so they discourage fare evasion
| without inconveniencing honest passengers.
|
| I wonder: if there were better enforcement of fares in San
| Francisco, would public transport be better? Right now, I
| almost never use public transport in SF because ~100% of my
| journeys would take 2x to 3x as long as they do by car.
| This is very sad for me, having previously lived in two
| cities with excellent public transport (London and
| Beijing).
| digianarchist wrote:
| TTC stations in Toronto will not allow you to enter using
| Presto at the same station you have already entered. I assume
| this is to prevent "pass backs" but it also affects those that
| have entered on the wrong side of certain stations.
|
| The solution in absence of an attendant. Jump the barriers.
| adrianmonk wrote:
| Also, it's possible (if unusual) to get value out of traveling
| within the BART system.
|
| For example, suppose you have a nice camera you want to sell to
| a friend. They live in Millbrae and commute to SF by BART. You
| live in north San Jose.
|
| So you agree to meet them on their way home from work, at 6pm
| right outside the Powell Street station. That's $16.80 for your
| Berryessa to Powell Street round trip.
|
| But what if you met inside the station instead? For your
| purposes, that's fine too. You can hand them the camera in
| either place. Should that trip be free because you enter and
| leave the BART system at Berryessa? I would say no, because
| getting to SF was valuable to you, plus you used a seat on two
| BART trains.
| googlryas wrote:
| They could just let you exit normally and not pay any fare if
| you entered the station less than 8 minutes ago, or whatever
| would be an amount of time that you couldn't realistically
| ride somewhere, enjoy another station, and then ride back.
|
| Though I guess people would just tap in, tap out immediately
| but don't exit the turnstiles, then just get on a train and
| exit through the emergency exit at whatever station you want
| for free.
| Psyonic wrote:
| "Though I guess people would just tap in, tap out
| immediately but don't exit the turnstiles, then just get on
| a train and exit through the emergency exit at whatever
| station you want for free."
|
| Sure, or just jump the turnstiles and exist through the
| emergency exit on the other end, which I already see people
| do frequently.
| [deleted]
| elcomet wrote:
| They could check that you leave the station within 5 min
| sbuttgereit wrote:
| Of course, you're right: it is absolutely feasible that such
| a valuable trip is possible and happens. You're right that a
| truly valuable trip is rightfully charged a fare. And finally
| you're also right that such trips are probably unusual. I
| would go so far as to say rare.
|
| What's much more common than that rare scenario is that,
| after paying a fare, you get down to the platform only to
| find that there's a long delay in the system, there are too
| many people trying to get on the trains, or something similar
| that causes you to leave the station to find saner transport.
| I've been bitten by this on BART, more than once. At stations
| in the heart of the city you "start the trip" triggering the
| fare long before you can see any of the platforms to know
| whether or not you should enter.
|
| Back to the point. The problem isn't that you're wrong in
| asserting a valuable excursion trip is possible, but that you
| use that fact to rationalize the charging of a fare while
| ignoring the much more common cases where you'd charge a fare
| while delivering no value for money. Once you consider the
| complete picture it becomes clear that the right thing to do
| is build policy around the common case, not the
| rare/hypothetical one. It would be better to eat the cost of
| the rare valuable trip BART should charge for so that they
| don't charge people for trips they couldn't actually deliver.
| axit wrote:
| Usually works but sometimes there's no one at the kiosk.
|
| > I suspect the excursion fare today is trying to
| disincentivize the use of the trains and stations as shelters
| by the unhoused.
|
| Time limits around entry exit could be useful here, where you
| can exit within 10 minutes of entry there is no charge. Reason
| for exiting at the same station for me is the train is delayed
| by 30 minutes and I forgot to check the next train before
| entering the station.
|
| More stories on excursion fare:
| https://twitter.com/graue/status/1554998671384756229
| CoffeeOnWrite wrote:
| Neat link. From BART's tweet response:
|
| > You can request an excursion fare refund with Clipper.
|
| This is true and wasn't mentioned in the article, but should
| have been.
| etrautmann wrote:
| exactly - it seems braindead obvious to me that there should
| be a 5-minute window for exiting without charge. Not
| implementing such an obvious and trivial feature can only be
| interpreted as deliberately taking money without delivering
| value for riders because....it's possible?
| jonas21 wrote:
| Until recently, BART used magstripe tickets where all
| information was stored on the ticket itself. It might not
| have been possible to implement a time window with that.
|
| That doesn't explain why they didn't add this when
| migrating to the Clipper card, but I feel like "nobody
| thought to change it" or "we wanted to reduce risk by not
| introducing changes while migrating" seem like more likely
| explanations than malice.
| magila wrote:
| I wouldn't call it malice. It's simply a rational
| decision. BART makes more money with the fee than
| without, so absent political pressure to discontinue it
| why would they?
|
| Also, Clipper cards have been around many years. They
| aren't a recent addition to BART.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| >I wouldn't call it malice. It's simply a rational
| decision. BART makes more money with the fee than without
|
| by taking money from those weaker than it, since it is a
| large well financed organization and the people riding it
| will not be equipped to fight it (legally), that's
| malicious.
| [deleted]
| andrewxdiamond wrote:
| I'd take it further and say this isn't intentional at
| all.
|
| Having worked in, for, and around governments, this was
| almost certainly an oversight that hasn't been a big
| enough of a fire in comparison to the other fires.
|
| Making a public stink about it makes it a bigger fire
| though, so the system is working as intended!
| [deleted]
| candu wrote:
| "I wouldn't call it _malice_. I make more money robbing
| travellers on the King's road than not doing so, and it's
| very unlikely I'll get caught!"
|
| Assuming a value system in which certain acts are wrong
| even if not observed / punished, some acts can be
| rational _and_ malicious.
|
| (This isn't intended to say anything either way about
| BART's actions here, which are obviously not the same as
| literal robbery; I'm mainly disputing the idea that
| rational acts can't be malicious.)
| RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u wrote:
| Yes, BART sucks, yada yada yada. In hindsight, not commuting by
| BART anymore was probably the best fucking decision I'd done for
| my mental health in my life. That said, charging for ingress /
| egress from the same station's hardly unique to BART. IIRC, this
| is true for mass rail transits in Taiwan and Japan as well. I
| presume it's to discourage non-riders from entering the station
| and displacing other riders: for real busy stations during rush
| hour it may be a real concern. That's not the case for BART,
| though it's got a different kind of "non-riders" to contend
| with...
| kodah wrote:
| I think this is a really great opportunity to mention that all
| policies need two important criteria: an audit date, and a
| mandatory (and renewable) sunset date.
| sowbug wrote:
| When I was a kid and tried to figure out why this fare/penalty
| existed, I guessed it was to compensate for people who traveled
| somewhere to pick up an item from a friend who'd meet them at the
| station and hand it through the gate to them, and then they'd go
| back home, all without leaving the station. It all seemed like an
| intricate solution to a small problem.
| flomo wrote:
| In ye olden days, my company had a courier who would shuttle
| interoffice mail between the Walnut Creek and downtown SF
| offices on BART all day. So I could see this happening.
| tedunangst wrote:
| What makes it intricate? There's a big table of station x
| station fares. Filling the diagonal with $6 is no more
| complicated than filling it with $0.
| geebee wrote:
| Isn't there a hack/scam where you could (in the absence of a
| same-station charge) pay less or nothing to ride bart?
|
| I remember people talking bout this ages ago (like, 20 years
| ago). You keep two bart cards going, and use the same one to
| enter and leave the same station. If there's a same-station
| charge, you can use it to enter/leave a nearby station, avoiding
| the higher fee for longer trips.
|
| Is there a possibility that the same-fare charge is kept around
| to prevent this hack?
| alistairSH wrote:
| Wouldn't a time check fix this? Enter/leave within 10 minutes,
| no charge. Enter/leave outside 10 min window, charge the
| exclusion fee.
| pirocks wrote:
| Tap/swipe in with one card, tap swipe out with the same card
| but don't actually leave. Hand the card to your buddy who
| swipes in and enters with you. Do the same thing on exit. You
| can then have as many people as you want travel for the cost
| of one.
| wolfgang42 wrote:
| You can trivially jump the fare gates. BART fares are
| enforced by inspectors checking proof-of-payment; if your
| group was stopped they'd be caught out by only having one
| card with an active trip.
| drdaeman wrote:
| A technological countermeasure would be to make it like an
| airlock - you have to get through the first set of gates
| (which won't let you return), and then have to tap your
| card to pass the second gate to finally exit.
|
| Obviously, this is not a realistic solution - building new
| exit gates is simply not worth it.
|
| Practically, such behavior if done repeatedly can be
| detected as an anomaly in card usage patterns, and a human
| reviewer can surely figure out what you're doing.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Blocking exit gates are a safety issue even under what
| would otherwise be normal operating conditions (e.g., no
| declared threat).
|
| Absent some sort of ranged tag detection (e.g., NFC or
| RFID), exit determination is exceedingly difficult. I'd
| argue that NFC/RFID operating beyond a few cm range are
| themselves a major infosec threat and privacy invasion.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Isn't there a hack/scam where you could (in the absence of a
| same-station charge) pay less or nothing to ride bart?
|
| Well, if you have someone going the opposite route, you could
| swap tickets at either endpoint (or at a transfer station in
| between.)
|
| > Is there a possibility that the same-fare charge is kept
| around to prevent this hack?
|
| I'm pretty sure that's why the excursion fare exists.
| madcaptenor wrote:
| I've seen somewhere an analysis of which station pairs this
| works on. It was either for BART or the Washington Metro, both
| of which have distance-based fares. (This is amazingly
| ungooglable.)
| linuxhansl wrote:
| BART...
|
| As I always say: One of the richest parts of the richest state of
| the richest nation on this planet and we have ... BART. How is
| this possible?
| troutwine wrote:
| Because the politics of the rich don't make good infrastructure
| for common use?
|
| So, BART was originally constructed for the purposes of
| suburban commuters heading into San Francisco for white-collar
| work with generous no-travel times baked in for maintenance.
| It's why there's no track duplication: if you're shutting down
| fully for hours you have plenty of time to work on maintenance.
| Almost immediately this assumption proved false, the hours got
| extended but the basic design is still in place. And, if you're
| really, really rich here you'd pay someone to drive you. Why
| futz with the BART? All you, the rarefied wealthy, need to do
| is keep BART limping along just enough that the service workers
| and middle class white-collar people and what not you rely on
| can get to work.
|
| It's how we get BART, it's how we get a serious housing
| shortage.
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| Because it's a public service and it doesn't have incentives to
| get better. It also has no fair competition from the private
| sector, given the amount of money in infrastructure that was
| spent on BART is unmatched.
|
| Look at how much private transportation improved (taxis ->
| uber).
|
| Besides, BART is the last of SF's problems, I'd rank
| homelessness and crime higher.
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