[HN Gopher] Non-Believers
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       Non-Believers
        
       Author : memorable
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2022-08-12 07:45 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (podviaznikov.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (podviaznikov.com)
        
       | pablok2 wrote:
       | As someone who can relate to the author in many ways, I'd argue
       | you should consider stability more objectively. You compare
       | states that have dissolved multiple times in a century against
       | states that have been stable (relatively). Your own argument can
       | be used to make the opposite point, judging by results alone.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | hiphipjorge wrote:
       | > The speed of history is increasing with each new generation
       | after all.
       | 
       | This is the only statement in the post I honestly disagreed with.
       | Anton is trying to talk about how his coworkers have lost
       | historical perspective and that he, because of the geopolitical
       | situation of the space in which he was born, has more historical
       | perspective and therefore believes that everything might got s**.
       | It's a very valid argument.
       | 
       | Yet, I have 2 questions: - Doesn't the fact that there's a large
       | group of people in the world (in North America, Europe, and other
       | places) that believe in the stability of the system indicate that
       | maybe they're actually experiencing history at a slower pace than
       | their ancestors? - More importantly, isn't the intent to predict
       | history by claiming to understand a change in the way it operates
       | (in this case its speed) also a lack of historical perspective?
       | 
       | Otherwise completely understood the point + liked the idea.
        
         | podviaznikov wrote:
         | > The speed of history is increasing with each new generation
         | after all.
         | 
         | Ok, maybe it's only for Ukrainians or something like that.
         | Probably this statement is even more true than when I wrote it.
         | 
         | > therefore believes that everything might got s*
         | 
         | I don't believe in that to be honest. It might be one of the
         | more pessimistic essays. But in general I do not try to connect
         | the speed of history, the direction (going to s* or otherwise).
         | I think it's very possible to be optimistic about future.
         | 
         | PS And fun fact I have 401K for 5(?) years now. So we all
         | change all the time. But reflecting on history is interesting
         | anyway.
        
       | PopAlongKid wrote:
       | [2016]
        
       | mrandish wrote:
       | I understand your unique perspective regarding long-term
       | stability but that risk isn't limited to 401Ks as it extends to a
       | person's overall investing strategy whether in stocks, bonds,
       | cash, precious metals, real estate, crypto, etc. I use a 401k as
       | one element in my overall investment portfolio but that portfolio
       | is diversified and layered with overlapping time horizons. I
       | reassess my strategy yearly and update the risk profile and time
       | horizons as needed based on my age, life plans and market
       | volatility.
       | 
       | For me, a 401K was good way to optimize the 'very long-term' part
       | of my portfolio because the 401K is mechanism to allow that
       | portion of your investments to grow pre-tax. Of course, when I
       | was in my 20s I put very little (or zero) into the bucket labeled
       | 'very long-term.' By the time I was 40, I was putting the maximum
       | amount allowed in my 401k every year because it basically worked
       | out like a tax discount. However, the cost of gaining that tax
       | discount is locking up those funds behind a penalty for early
       | withdrawal. The chances I might need that money sooner must be
       | weighed as a cost/benefit analysis.
       | 
       | But that's really no different than many investment vehicles
       | which have varying degrees of liquidity (T-Bills, bonds, real-
       | estate, startup, etc.) The market prices the assets accordingly
       | and it's not hard to construct a portfolio to match any
       | risk/reward and time horizon you think is best for you.
        
       | Banana699 wrote:
       | >the probability of change in each system might not be high, but
       | overall probability of general change is much higher - because
       | it's multiplication of individual probabilities.
       | 
       | I get what the author is trying to say, but they had this one
       | backward. Probabilities get smaller by multiplication. What he
       | probably had in mind is :
       | 
       | - The probabilities of change events C1,...,Cn is P1,...,Pn
       | 
       | - The probability of no change at all is therefore
       | (1-P1)(1-P2)...(1-Pn), which does indeed become smaller as more
       | (independent) events C1,..., Cn are accounted for. And therfore
       | the probability of change increases, but not because its a
       | multiplication of probabilities, the exact opposite in fact, its
       | because 1 - <multiplication of multiple probabilities>.
       | 
       | - Another way of phrasing the above is that, although each Pi
       | might be small, their sum represents a sizable chunk of
       | 1,therefore a significant probability. This only holds if events
       | intersects minimally or not at all. This is a different
       | assumption than that of independence.
        
       | eadmund wrote:
       | > Consciously or not they bet that in 40-60 years the system they
       | live now would remain unchanged ... laws to protect savings of
       | the regular people still would be in place
       | 
       | I really worry about that. I have been steadily saving in my
       | 401(k) for my entire working life, and while it is not a huge
       | amount, it is a few years' wages. Meanwhile, plenty of people
       | have saved nothing for retirement.
       | 
       | I have no assurance that a wealth tax will not be imposed on that
       | 401(k) to fund others' retirements; I don't even really have any
       | assurance that income taxes won't be imposed on Roth IRAs or
       | 401(k)s, despite that being their whole reason for existence.
       | 
       | I can _easily_ see some demagogue riling people up and calling me
       | a wrecker or a hoarder because rather than spend my income today
       | I have been saving it for the future. I can easily see a more
       | restrained demagogue calling for me to pay 'my fair share,'
       | defining that as some increased amount because I had the
       | foresight and discipline to sacrifice for decades.
       | 
       | I can see that money I have been carefully husbanding through
       | financial crises and wars taken from me, and I can see being told
       | that I should be grateful to keep any of it.
        
         | AnimalMuppet wrote:
         | This is why I have avoided Roth IRAs.
         | 
         | The deal with IRAs is "put in pre-tax money; we'll tax it when
         | you take it out". The deal with Roth IRAs is "put in post-tax
         | money; it _won 't_ be taxed when you take it out". My fear is
         | that the deal will change by the time I'm ready to take it out
         | - that Roth IRAs will in fact be taxed on withdrawal a decade
         | or two from now.
        
         | podviaznikov wrote:
         | 6 years later after writing this post it is still mind blowing
         | to me how stable US is/was. That you could plan something for
         | the life.
         | 
         | Maybe it is changing now, but the positive thing is that we can
         | build societies that are stable for few generations. I find
         | this bit aspiring in general (but obviously doesn't help much
         | when thinking about your own pension and financial security).
         | 
         | It's a reminder for myself mostly, because again I'm originally
         | from Ukraine and Ukraine didn't have stable peaceful period
         | that lasted even one generation (at least in the past 150
         | years).
        
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