[HN Gopher] NetBSD improves support for the Commodore Amiga
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NetBSD improves support for the Commodore Amiga
Author : erickhill
Score : 77 points
Date : 2022-08-11 14:19 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (thenewstrace.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (thenewstrace.com)
| astrange wrote:
| What do you actually do with NetBSD once it's been installed on
| everything on earth? It seems like one of those small computers
| that's supposedly for education but is actually only used for
| dads to install NES emulators on.
| bch wrote:
| It's a well-engineered general purpose operating system. I used
| it as a development platform and reference box for portability.
| I'll drive my projects w BSD Make[0] and nvi[1] in tmux[2] in
| dwm/st[3] in X.org as well as I imagine Linux does. I'll
| occasionally stream radio with it while I'm working, and
| collaborate in development with git/hg/fossil. In this sense, I
| may not even be missing anything versus what another system
| could provide. I can ssh from here to there, I happen to use
| this box as a VPN/router, dhcp server and recursive DNS
| resolver, so it also supports other (Windows, Apple) devices in
| the house. A solid, no-nonsense breath of fresh air.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_(software)
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvi
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tmux
|
| [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suckless.org
| bpye wrote:
| Still no RISC-V support so we've got more platforms yet.
| danhab99 wrote:
| >(in turn belonging to the Unix family), stepbrother of macOS and
| first cousin of Linux
|
| To the common people this means very little
|
| To those who understands version control this means a lot more.
| opless wrote:
| FYI
|
| "Due to the MMU requirement, it will not run on A500, A600,
| A1000, A1200, A2000, A4000/EC030, CDTV or CD32 out of the box.
| You must install a CPU board on them to run NetBSD."
| justapassenger wrote:
| Basically anyone who still runs Amiga is using accelerator
| cards, majority of them with MMUs.
| rjsw wrote:
| Probably easier to find an old Macintosh with a MMU if you want
| to try out NetBSD on something of that vintage.
| zdw wrote:
| There are definitely more Macs out there than Amigas.
|
| On either 68k platform swapping out a full 68030/040 instead
| of the EC versions is quite easy, and these chips are still
| fairly available on the used market.
| flohofwoe wrote:
| > There are definitely more Macs out there than Amigas.
|
| Maybe in the US, but definitely not in Europe - unless you
| also count modern Macs ;)
| opless wrote:
| In the UK the Amiga was huge - a much larger market than
| the 68K Macs. Possibly Germany too.
|
| The USA (as far as I understand it) had lots of 68K Macs in
| their schools, where as the UK had more Acorn Equipment
| (which gradually moved to x86 through Research Machines)
| vidarh wrote:
| Yeah, it's very market specific. I grew up in Norway, and
| until the mid-90's I had seen a grand total of one Mac in
| person (the first Apple machine I'd seen at all) - the
| mostly ignored display unit at my local computer store.
| Nobody I knew had Macs - those upgrading from 8-bit home
| computers mostly went Amiga, Atari ST or PC's.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| The Amiga ruled Britain until the 90s but radically
| different in the USA. My old boss was an American Amiga
| owner and he says he sold up around 1989 for the PC.
| opless wrote:
| I used to have an LC that I used to run Debian on, sadly it
| crashed regularly :(
| xvilka wrote:
| It's the only modern OS that can still be also installed on VAX.
| You can try it yourself with OpenSIMH[1][2][3]. I struggled to
| successfully setup network though - for some reason it wasn't
| working as expected.
|
| [1] https://github.com/open-simh/simh/
|
| [2] https://pbraun.nethence.com/obsolete/software/simh.html
|
| [3] https://www.netbsd.org/ports/vax/emulator-howto.html
| kaashif wrote:
| Does NetBSD still really run on real VAXen? As I recall, there
| was a time when NetBSD current was broken on VAX, the cross
| compilation process had gone wrong and no-one noticed. Can't
| find a source, but I can find an email mentioning that issue:
| https://www.mail-archive.com/tech-
| kern@netbsd.org/msg12018.h.... Are there people still running
| it, or is this just an emulator and cross-compilation thing?
|
| I can't find any proof either way.
|
| I know OpenBSD has a policy of no cross compilation and only
| real machines, but they dropped support for VAX years ago.
| Cyberdog wrote:
| > Enough fans in fact, for that a 2022 operating system bothered
| to add support for graphical sessions (via an X11 server)* on
| said hardware*.
|
| > And it is that the objective that differentiates this system
| from other BSDs such as FreeBSD or OpenBSD is summed up,
| precisely, by its slogan "Of course it runs NetBSD" (Of course
| running NetBSD)in reference to the vast catalog of hardware
| architectures that it supports, from the (today) enormous VAX
| microcomputers (launched on the market in the 1970s) to PDAs of
| all kinds, passing through PCs, Raspberry Pis or Sega Dreamcast
| video consoles.
|
| This article seems like it was auto-translated from another
| language.
| jkingsman wrote:
| I've had articles that I was 100% certain of the original
| source for, and yeah it either seems like a hatchet job of a
| machine translation and back, or it's heavily thesaurized. I'd
| have to guess it's to drive clicks/traffic for advertising
| money or malware purposes without being so blatant that there's
| nowhere to hide, legally.
|
| Just my uninformed guess.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Sounds like a GPT-3 article too
| mnd999 wrote:
| Wow, they have X11 working on ECS / AGA i.e. the standard Amiga
| graphics which were state of the art at the time but
| unconventional by modern standards. That's pretty awesome, I
| was expecting it to need an external graphics card. Sadly my
| A1200 doesn't have an MMU so it would be upgrade time if I want
| to try it.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| This article (which I'm convinced was "written" by GPT) is
| actively misleading, since NetBSD isn't supported on any of the
| legacy hardware described and even pictured in the article.
|
| The change isn't even that huge, since wsfb was already supported
| on most common Amiga graphics cards, including CyberVision,
| Picasso, Piccolo, Spectrum, Domino, Merlin and oMnibus.
|
| Here are the release notes for 9.3:
| https://www.netbsd.org/releases/formal-9/NetBSD-9.3.html
| rjsw wrote:
| I don't think it is GPT generated, seems similar to the kind of
| stuff on Phoronix that has been editorialized from mailing list
| posts, which of the legacy hardware mentioned do you feel is
| incorrect?
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| It shows an Amiga 500, and specifies "released in 1985".
| johnklos wrote:
| Perhaps it was poorly translated. It's hard to say.
|
| But be aware that there are many, many dozens of accelerators
| for the Amiga 500, so it is, in fact, easy to have NetBSD
| running on such hardware.
| vhodges wrote:
| My first unix experience. I spent a weekend backing up my A4000
| (at work) to to a writable cd (at $30 a pop no less) and
| installed NetBSD on it, played with it for a few hours and then
| restored AmigaOS (so I could work on Monday). Might have been
| sometime in the fall of '93 or so.
| kps wrote:
| There's got to be a Video Toaster joke around here somewhere, but
| I can't find it.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Kiki Wipes!!!
| marttt wrote:
| A n00b-level hardware question. I have an old Sony PRS-T1
| e-reader with a Freescale i.MX508 SoC (32-bit Cortex-A8, ARMv7-A
| architecture). If I am not mistaken, this processor might be
| supported by NetBSD since 7.0? There is a port for the Kobo
| reader, which has a similar one [0, 1].
|
| Has anybody here maybe used the Kobo-NetBSD port? How much of an
| effort would it be to get it booting on the Sony T1? Or would it
| be a definite way to brick the device for good.
|
| I was thinking it would be awesome to have the PRS-T1 as a
| NetBSD-based "single textfile viewer". No wireless or other
| goodies, no touchscreen, just a dumb pager, scrolling up and down
| on a plain text document using the device's physical buttons. For
| starters, it could, indeed, display just _one_ document, which
| would be loaded into the device via USB.
|
| In addition to USB access, one would have to map the T1's
| physical buttons to scrolling commands. Later on, multi-file
| support could be added (woah!), via some sort of simple terminal-
| based menu, again navigable with the hardware buttons. The T1 has
| 5 buttons + power on/off + reset.
|
| Usually, the mods for various e-readers seem to focus on hacking
| the original, e.g. Android-based OS into something "more
| complete", that is, adding features. I would rather go the
| opposite direction -- turn the T1 into an ultra-barebones device.
| For, as an avid ereader user, I've come to realize that I would
| actually survive quite happily with just text files. PDFs are
| somewhat an issue, but ebooks can be converted to plain text
| incredibly nicely with a text-only web browser. Unzip the epub,
| navigate to HTML files, convert and merge them into a single .txt
| via 'links -dump'. For me, images or drawings in ebooks can
| mostly be skipped without much of an issue.
|
| So yeah, maybe a toaster-running OS would be a good fit for such
| a project? Has there been any other porting efforts, with
| different ereaders -- and if not, then what are the main
| obstacles? (I am definitely not competent, but "ARM is messy",
| even for BSD wizards?) I couldn't find much examples. NetBSD guys
| seem to prefer toasters, I guess :).
|
| 0: https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-
| bugs/2013/08/29/msg0340...
|
| 1: https://wiki.netbsd.org/users/jun/kobo/
| rjsw wrote:
| Just from looking at what needed to be done to get the Pine64
| PineNote to work with Linux, eInk displays need special drivers
| and each one is different. There isn't an eInk driver of any
| kind in NetBSD.
| rjsw wrote:
| The original title is better than the one here, the Amiga has
| been supported for a long time, recent changes just fixed some
| things that had bitrotted or been deleted from upstream X11.
| frellus wrote:
| I'm a huge *BSD fan, and I know one of the amazing things about
| NetBSD is that it's been ported to everything.. but an OS which
| is ported everywhere but runs no where in production feels like a
| really quirky project to me.
|
| Likewise, OpenBSD, FreeBSD will have some adoption (vs Linux,
| Windows) on the server front, but I worry they won't win the
| hearts and minds of developers unless there is a solid and modern
| laptop solution -- this obviously requires developers who are
| able to get things working.
|
| Before everyone jumps in and says they're running *BSD on their
| laptop, I'm talking about a modern laptop, and being able to
| develop on it. I recently tried to install FreeBSD onto a modern
| laptop (Dell XPS) and it totally failed in every way possible. No
| power/sleep control, fans blasting, CPU burning through my
| desktop, and I hadn't even gotten to the wifi and video support
| to get X working. On Reddit I was essentially told it wasn't
| worth the pain.
| rjsw wrote:
| I'm a NetBSD developer but I don't have a recent x86 laptop, it
| is only in the last year that packages like Firefox and
| LibreOffice have got too big to run on my old laptop and I have
| started to think about buying a newer one, everything works
| fine on the old one.
|
| People fix the problems that they see, but if developers don't
| have a need to buy new stuff for themselves then newer systems
| won't get support.
| xvilka wrote:
| I recently thought it would be awesome to have DragonFly BSD
| working on Raspberry Pi (or any other modern ARMv8 machine)
| but it's not implemented yet - there is a small code
| bounty[1] but I would be happy to extend it for a couple $k.
| If you would be willing to help or know someone - feel free
| to contact me or leave a comment.
|
| [1] https://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/Code_Bounties
| /#i...
| t-3 wrote:
| My 2021 XPS 13 runs OpenBSD flawlessly, and has since I got it
| (ok, I _did_ need to fix one line of a case statement in iwx.c
| for a few months).
| frellus wrote:
| This is really encouraging -- can you share your specs /
| model number (I know XPS 13, but there is usually a model
| number as well). Cheers!
| t-3 wrote:
| 9310. i71185G7 16G RAM, it came with Ubuntu, but I
| immediately replaced the SSD with a 1TB Samsung (and put
| the SSD in my Pinebook Pro).
| anthk wrote:
| Each BSD has nothing to do which each other.
| jmclnx wrote:
| I wonder what your definition of a "modern laptop" laptop is ?
|
| I have a T420 with NetBSD on it and it runs perfect (on it
| now), I doubt I would see a difference with a modern laptop, no
| matter what the OS is. My other Laptop is a Thinkpad W541, it
| is pulled apart so I can thermal paste and clean it, that has
| BSD on it too.
|
| These both cost far less then what a brand new Laptop would
| cost and they serve me perfectly.
|
| But I am not a gamer, except for games like nethack, so maybe
| running fancy 3d games may be tough, but for everything else,
| these are fine.
| anthk wrote:
| Slashem is cool, too. And IF games like Anchorhead or All
| things devours. On 3D games, I run OBSD under an Atom n270,
| 1GB RAM, crappy GMA. Scummvm supports Blade Runner and much
| more. Soon the Resident Evil 1-3 games will run under that.
|
| MPV and yt-dlp are capped to 420@30, but it opens 720@30 h264
| vids fine.
|
| So, no need for GL > 1.4.
| frellus wrote:
| By "modern" I am thinking:
|
| * something which an IT department would likely hand out for
| a Windows 10 user
|
| * good screen size (13"+), good resolution/brightness to work
| off
|
| * certainly oesn't have to be a gaming laptop, certainly, but
| something which is performant
|
| * a model released in the past 3 years maybe?
|
| * weight != a brick
|
| Not trying to be contentious, it's just my viewpoint -- and
| I'm probably a minority; I'd just say that probably the BSD
| user base would grow if there was a focus like this
| antod wrote:
| My personal definition of a "modern laptop" would be having
| USB-C ports.
|
| Bonus points for Thunderbolt 3 or later.
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(page generated 2022-08-11 23:01 UTC)