[HN Gopher] IKEA Symfonisk Gen2 Amp Modification Guide - A Much ...
___________________________________________________________________
IKEA Symfonisk Gen2 Amp Modification Guide - A Much Cheaper Sonos
Amp
Author : reimertz
Score : 153 points
Date : 2022-08-08 15:02 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thetylergibson.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thetylergibson.com)
| tjoff wrote:
| I only glanced at this but I couldn't see anything about why
| you'd want to do this?
|
| I'm guessing you get some more functionalities out of it?
|
| Or Sonos compatibility?
| ska wrote:
| I imagine Sonos compatibility for your own speaker config for
| (lots) less than Sonos offerings, or for things they don't
| offer at all.
| [deleted]
| trynewideas wrote:
| Sonos compatibility. The $120 Ikea product is effectively a
| $320 Sonos Connect - which can connect to any arbitrary speaker
| - attached to a cheap bookshelf speaker.
|
| This mod removes the Ikea speaker and adds the connectivity
| required to the Sonos component to effectively replace a Sonos
| Connect.
|
| Because Sonos doesn't offer a $120 device that replicates this
| functionality, it effectively allows you to invest an hour or
| two of soldering and circuit board modding, and optionally $60
| in 3D printing, to replace a $320 device.
| bjelkeman-again wrote:
| I love these kind of hacks. Nicely done. However I must disagree
| with one thing in the original article:
|
| > Brilliant sound
|
| I have a Symfonisk bookshelf speaker in my kitchen, and I don't
| think the sound is brilliant. It is too boomy for a speaker that
| is supposed to be placed near a wall or in a bookshelf. The low
| price forces some compromises and I suspect this is one.
| yborg wrote:
| >I don't think the sound is brilliant
|
| I returned mine after a week, the HomePod Mini produced
| superior sound even in an open area for less money. The
| Symfonisk was capable of being loud, but the highs were very
| muffled.
| atVelocet wrote:
| You know that you need to calibrate them with an iPhone? This
| totally changes the sound.
| squarefoot wrote:
| I've listened to one at a IKEA shop and think its quality is
| mostly okay (speakers placement can change everything), but if
| I needed one I would certainly build it myself for much less
| money using cheap easily available ready made modules to
| convert to wireless normal amplified speakers.
|
| This is a field in which DIY is still viable; the other day I
| posted a link to a data sheet of a set of modules promising
| quite serious performance (digital uncompressed audio with sub-
| millisecond latency), but sadly can't find any seller from whom
| I could purchase a few for testing.
|
| http://www.vastera.com.tw/1/PDF/DIO-S003B.pdf
| tpmx wrote:
| tl;dr: turn a $119 IKEA Symfonisk gen 2 wi-fi bookshelf speaker
| into a 100W mono Sonos TPA3116D2-based amp.
|
| You'll likely need to switch out the PSU to get 100W for real
| though. Consider looking into used laptop PSUs for bargains.
|
| (There was some missing context.)
| Snoozus wrote:
| Yeah, but why? Is the end result better than using any old hifi
| speaker set with an amp? Will there be stereo?
| type0 wrote:
| Seems to be most important that this amp is small and sound
| okayish. Still better spend your money on old serviced piece
| of kit that will likely survive several decades. I haven't
| had any new amplifiers that sounded as good as my old 70s
| Sony TA over-engineered amp.
| phlo wrote:
| I used the same mod to turn a few older, passive hi-fi
| speakers into Sonos-enabled wireless speakers. They sound
| (and look) a lot better than the Symfonisk, and putting the
| DAC and amp right into the speaker enclosure is more
| convenient than an external amp and wiring.
|
| If you use them to bi-amp speakers with two drivers, the
| TruePlay calibration works great.
| mikeyouse wrote:
| The Sonos Amp + two built-in speakers with equivalent
| functionality is like $1,200. This lets you use a $100
| speaker as that amp (or two of these setups for stereo sound)
| and then you can use much more reasonably priced built-ins
| that are still Sonos compatible. It's only useful if you're
| in the Sonos ecosystem, but it's pretty useful if that's the
| case.
| ryanianian wrote:
| > This lets you use a $100 speaker as that amp
|
| Not all amps are equal. The Sonos Amp can competently drive
| 4 beefy in-wall/ceiling speakers. The Sonos Amp isn't just
| the guts of this product marked up 5x.
|
| Either way, it's silly that Sonos doesn't have a simple un-
| amplified receiver for similar setups. Perhaps they are
| afraid consumers would get confused about non-amplified
| products given all their other products are amplified.
| tpmx wrote:
| _Either way, it 's silly that Sonos doesn't have a simple
| un-amplified receiver for similar setups._
|
| They do have that, the Sonos Port, but it's extremely
| overpriced at $449. They very gracefully do allow you to
| get a full two channels of audio (stereo) though.
| sethhochberg wrote:
| The benefit of doing this is the Sonos compatibility. If you
| like the ecosystem but don't like the packaged speakers or
| the cost of their standalone amplifiers, this is a cheaper
| path to using your own speakers in the Sonos world.
| zihotki wrote:
| I'm not sure that it will be fully compatible. Sonos has a
| feature to tune/calibrate your speaker setup for your
| environment. That's to reduce room gain and in general to
| get a better flatter response for your environment. And I'm
| not sure that after switching the amplifier into bridge
| mode that functionality will work correctly
| happyopossum wrote:
| There are a bunch of mod articles and YouTube videos
| about doing mods with the Gen1 and bi-amp speakers - or
| some even turning it into a subwoofer amp - and trueplay
| apparently still worked.
|
| That said, removing the bi-amp capability may technically
| break trueplay, but I don't see how. If it worked in
| single channel mode as a sub, it should work bridged like
| this.
|
| [edit] just looked at his gen1 guide that does the same
| mono-bridging, and it claims trueplay still works. Which
| makes sense - trueplay is a feedback loop. With the
| speaker playing specific frequencies at specific volumes,
| and your phone listens to it and adjusts the DSP to make
| those frequency/volume pairs match what it expects.
| zihotki wrote:
| For good and easy multiroom sound obviously. It's a killer
| feature of Sonos. And in this particular case it's a ceiling
| speaker. Stereo is not a problem here since a single
| Symfonisk is a mono speaker and you need a second one to get
| stereo. That won't change after the mod.
| karamanolev wrote:
| I frequently see efforts that use cheap, popular, globally
| available off the shelf hardware for more than it was meant to. I
| love that and it really showcases the benefits of hackable,
| modifiable things. Someone could make this as an argument of
| user-serviceable, accessible hardware instead of sealed units
| that only the manufacturer can open. Also, do we need to talk
| about "warranty void if seal broken" stickers?
| dylan604 wrote:
| I'm all for that as well, except I have become slightly more
| sympathetic to the warranty aspect. Yes, we absolutely need
| "void if seal broken". I would love for something to be
| released that was fully intended to allow tinkering, but once
| you do so, you get no warranty service as there's no way to
| know what mods were done. I think that's totally acceptable
| notsapiensatall wrote:
| That approach has many perverse incentives. Fortunately,
| we've already figured this one out: manufacturers should only
| be able to disavow their warranties if they can prove that a
| modification caused the need for a repair.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty.
| ..
| kbenson wrote:
| Which, _maybe_ an appropriately placed sticker can _help_
| determine. Note I said help. Whether the sticker is
| enforceable or not, it 's an easy way for the manufacturer
| to know whether the user even accessed internals that
| aren't required for normal operation, streamlining some
| warranty cases.
|
| TL;DR - invalidating because of sticker bad, using present
| sticker to fast track warranty cases good.
| karamanolev wrote:
| Invalidating because of sticker - bad. So sticker saying
| so is also bad. OK if sticker says "Breaking seal at own
| responsibility" might be a measurable improvement.
|
| Let's not pretend we haven't seen 1001 cases of "You've
| upgraded your laptop's RAM, so the laptop hinges that we
| see break in thousands of laptops is your own fault"
| (Dell).
| kbenson wrote:
| Sure, I kind of assumed that when used appropriately in
| this way it would say something appropriate that wasn't
| untrue as well, such as "warranty implications if
| broken", which them people might at least be interested
| in looking up what those implications are (presumably
| longer turnaround time as it needs more investigation).
| cwillu wrote:
| Invalidating a warranty based on such seals is in fact
| illegal: Generally, tie-in sales provisions
| aren't allowed. These are provisions that state or
| imply that a consumer must buy or use an item or
| service from a particular company to keep their
| warranty coverage. Here are some examples of
| prohibited tie-in sales provisions.
| "To keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner
| warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum
| Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled
| maintenance performed, at your expense, by the
| Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids
| this warranty." "This limited warranty shall
| not apply if the warranty seal has been broken,
| removed, erased, defaced, altered, or is otherwise
| illegible," where a device cannot be repaired
| without such effects.
|
| https://www.ftc.gov/business-
| guidance/resources/businesspers...
| karamanolev wrote:
| Yes, I'm aware of its illegality and considered mentioning
| it, but I thought it wouldn't be worth it. Yet, here we
| are.
| madeofpalk wrote:
| > Someone could make this as an argument of user-serviceable
|
| I think the opposite, really. Selling overprovisioned hardware,
| with differentiation between models happening in software
| happens because they devices are locked down and aren't user
| serviceable or intended to be modified.
|
| Users upgrading cheaper, over-provisioned, possibly loss-
| leading hardware to get more expensive functionality means no
| one would buy the more expensive model, which would drive up
| the cost of the cheaper one.
| karamanolev wrote:
| > Users upgrading cheaper, over-provisioned, possibly loss-
| leading hardware to get more expensive functionality means no
| one would buy the more expensive model, which would drive up
| the cost of the cheaper one.
|
| No, not really. If you think tinkering people who would open
| up their IKEA Symfonisk has a nontrivial overlap with Sonos
| customers, you're in for a surprise. Richer "nice off-the-
| shelf device" people will stay that way, DIY with an IKEA
| speaker people will also stay that way.
|
| What it does is it really encourages tinkering, thinking and
| innovation in the small fraction of people who would do that.
| It breeds better engineers, more engaged teenagers, a more
| flexible society. So really - all the positives and almost
| none of the negatives.
| maicro wrote:
| ~19 years ago my first real introduction to
| software/hardware/firmware hacking and electronics/soldering
| was turning the digital, one-time use "disposable" cameras that
| CVS etc. sold, into reusable digital cameras. Plenty of issues
| along the way and drawbacks with the final product, but for the
| time it was one of the cheapest digital cameras you could get
| (because the price was heavily subsidized on the fact that you
| would be returning it to develop the pictures, at which point
| it could be cleared and sold again). That definitely helped put
| me on the tinkering path I'm on now.
| mxmilkiib wrote:
| Might there be any professional products yet that can recieve
| Snapcast?
| madmod wrote:
| I made a guide to get line output from the Symphonisk two years
| ago.
| https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/comments/dkrui0/cheaper_sonos...
|
| I already had a whole home amplifier and wanted to use some of my
| AVRs also. Truplay with in ceiling speakers is amazing!
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| Nowadays, amplifier modules often have built-in DSP capabilities,
| eg to psycho-acoustically improve bass or better match the
| speaker. Has it been verified that this is not the case?
| Otherwise you'd get a signal that has been altered and is likely
| a mismatch to any other speaker other than the Symfonisk.
| jstsch wrote:
| I did the same hack, except using two Symfonisk's and just
| connecting the existing speaker lines to a pair of floorstanding
| two-way speakers (Kef iQ70 from the 2010's).
|
| The little amp in the Symfonisk is plenty powerful to drive these
| large speakers. The crossover is completely off by default, but
| by using Trueplay the crossover gets tuned properly and the sound
| is pretty damn good (albeit a tad boosted in the highs).
|
| It's a great way to get super convenient (Airplay 2) and high
| quality sound in a room, just with a power cord for each speaker.
| And these quality Hi-Fi speakers are readily available for cheap
| second-hand... some pics here:
| https://twitter.com/jstsch/status/1529204823912075264/photo/...
| jon_adler wrote:
| Has anyone found a cheaper way to get stereo digital output (than
| the Port) to replace an old Sonos Connect? I have a nice DAC in
| my pre-amp, so I'd like to use that with streamed digital audio.
| My original Connect was very expensive and is now incompatible
| with newer S2 functionality. I have never understood why Sonos
| devices costs more without an amplifier or speaker! Presumably
| because they can?
| ska wrote:
| Would this same approach work for you? I haven't looked, but
| presumably you could pull the signal before it hits the
| amplifier, and make it work that way...
| tpmx wrote:
| This IKEA wi-fi/Sonos bookshelf speaker has a stereo DAC (per
| the article), but I would assume it's designated as a mono
| Sonos output device in terms of software, so only one channel
| (left) is probably active.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Sonos uses a software DSP and crossover and its two
| channels are used for low and high frequency drivers
| instead of left and right.
| tpmx wrote:
| Ah, now the instructions in the article make more sense.
| ska wrote:
| That's a good point. If it's like the other Sonos mono
| speakers, you can (in software) designate them as a stereo
| pair working together in arbitrary configurations - which
| would suggest that there may be a way to do it.
| krnlpnc wrote:
| Hmm, hacking in a stereo line level out seems more worthwhile.
| Chip amps can be found super cheap, and will likely give better
| results (as would a traditional amp)
| rspoerri wrote:
| Only with the old guide it made sense to me:
|
| https://www.thetylergibson.com/ikea-symfonisk-amp-modificati...
| xd1936 wrote:
| Yes, this is linked in the introduction. Great reads.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Yeah, the article doesn't make it at all clear what the point
| of this project might be. I gathered by the end that the idea
| is to rip out the guts of an Ikea speaker, add some binding
| posts and a custom case, and come away with a hacked-up,
| 1-channel replacement for the Sonos Amp.
|
| Tell you what scares me though: I don't like seeing that they
| doubled the amount of DRAM in the new one. Hopefully they did
| that only because it was becoming impossible to source the
| 256MB module. I hate to see it because if they allow themselves
| to use it, eventually there will be a software release that
| doesn't work on the older 256MB model, and they'll deprecate
| it.
| dmitriid wrote:
| Both IKEA and Sonos have been decent in terms of support of
| older hardware, so I wouldn't be _too_ wary of that. _But_ ,
| companies rarely feel incentivised to maintain older products
| these days.
| jeffbee wrote:
| I am pretty happy with Sonos support but they did already
| EOL all their original products up to everything with less
| than 128MB of RAM, on the basis of not being able to run
| the newer software. Those older platforms also had SuperH
| CPUs, which might have been part of the problem.
| dmitriid wrote:
| That's why I said "decent", not "great" :)
|
| My Playbar from god knows when (5? 6? years ago) still
| gets updates and is on S2 now. But then yeah, there are
| the older devices which are EOLed.
|
| IKEA still supports 5-year old smart switches they no
| longer produce even with their latest smart bulbs. But no
| idea if that will continue with their move to Matter (or
| whatever the new hotness is called).
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-08-08 23:00 UTC)