[HN Gopher] How we got customers to sign up to Monzo in the earl...
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       How we got customers to sign up to Monzo in the early years
        
       Author : angristan
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2022-08-08 08:36 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tomblomfield.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tomblomfield.com)
        
       | finsubthrowaway wrote:
       | Not the intended use case, but the monzo.me links are great for
       | financial domination too.
       | 
       | As a cash slave, it makes it very easy to send to UK-based cash
       | masters from outside the UK.
        
       | mojuba wrote:
       | I was one of the early adopters. Monzo felt fresh and exciting
       | back when it started, kind of like Google in its early days. But
       | I later switched to Revolut and never looked back. I was driven
       | purely by intuition and no particular reason.
       | 
       | While trying to understand why, I thought it was probably because
       | there was too much PR and fuzz around Monzo as an "ethical
       | business" and little action. You don't just talk about being
       | ethical or caring about the customers (most data collection
       | companies say "we value your privacy"). You prove it by doing, by
       | delivering an amazing product and customer support, and by
       | showing how you are going to turn profitable. Revolut and other
       | competitors talk less but you can see they are doing reasonable
       | job on all fronts.
        
         | nly wrote:
         | The Revolut app is a hot mess though.
         | 
         | Monzo have kept theirs clean l, focus and and useful.
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | Monzo's initial UI used to be amazing. I find their V2 UI
           | terrible, and of course the various "growth & engagement"
           | shenanigans don't help - feels more like a bullshit social
           | media app than a tool that's supposed to hold & manage my
           | money.
        
           | antihero wrote:
           | The Monzo app lags and chokes swiping between accounts on my
           | brand new iPhone 13 Mini.
        
             | nly wrote:
             | Works fine on Android
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | They are using native apps so 2 different codebases, that
               | would explain why you're not experiencing iOS-specific
               | bugs.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | I wouldn't consider Revolut ethical though.
         | 
         | Revolut allowed people to open accounts immediately with no (or
         | very soft) KYC but then had to limit (by law) the amount of
         | money they could transact before passing stronger KYC. This led
         | to a lot of people opening Revolut accounts, going abroad and
         | ending up stranded with no access to their money once they've
         | exhausted the initial limit, sometimes with no way to complete
         | KYC at all if they didn't have the required documents on hand.
         | 
         | The ethical approach here would've been to prevent these people
         | from opening accounts without initial _full_ KYC or have strong
         | & persistent warnings about the issue to dissuade people from
         | going abroad with a limited account, but who cares about people
         | being stranded if you can have "growth" instead?
        
           | jozvolskyef wrote:
           | See my sibling comment for a counterargument. I do agree with
           | the warnings though.
        
           | mojuba wrote:
           | That's strange, I've used Revolut as my main account for
           | years and never hit any limits. I suppose there's ATM
           | withdrawal cap but I don't use cash much.
        
         | shantnutiwari wrote:
         | I gave up on Revolut after scandals about its CEO and financial
         | shenanigans; and the many customer service nightmares.
         | 
         | In banking, boring is better
        
           | mojuba wrote:
           | > In banking, boring is better
           | 
           | Exactly, you don't want to hand your money to a fancy
           | organization that experiments with its PR and god knows what
           | it does behind the scenes.
           | 
           | Never heard about the scandals though, do you have any links?
        
           | oakesm9 wrote:
           | I tried boring with TSB. Their botched IT migration which
           | left with me with no access to money for a few days and
           | seeing other customer full account details when I signed in
           | online causes some to switch to Monzo. They're not perfect,
           | and their app is getting noticeable worse for the
           | fundamentals as they add more money making features like
           | loans and flex, but I've still had no major issues in years.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | You want "boring" but modern, competent "boring" such as
             | Starling. It's modern but otherwise boring code (a Java
             | monolith if I remember correctly), a modern app and is
             | backed by a profitable, sustainable business with no
             | "growth & engagement" smell.
        
         | karmakaze wrote:
         | Just noticed the double entendre in 'we value your privacy'--
         | your private data provides the $value.
        
         | jozvolskyef wrote:
         | I would try Monzo, but all I get from them is
         | 
         | > Unfortunately we can't offer you a Monzo account
         | 
         | > We're afraid we can't go into more detail about why we can't
         | offer you an account.
         | 
         | > We assess every application using details you've given us,
         | and any information we get from the credit reference agencies
         | we use (Experian and TrnsUnion) or from anti-fraud services
         | like Cifas.
         | 
         | Starling is the same. As a debt-free UK resident without any UK
         | driver's licenses, utility bills, benefit claims, gun
         | certificates, electoral register or GP records, the only bank
         | that is willing to do business with me is Revolut.
         | 
         | Not having any credit history is becoming a barrier to access
         | more and more services that require an identity check. While it
         | is understandable that companies want to protect themselves
         | from fraud, this trend is making it difficult for people who
         | don't have a credit history to access basic services. This is
         | creating a significant barrier for certain groups of people,
         | and it is something that should be addressed. When it comes to
         | providing essential services to those who fall through the
         | cracks, Revolut may be more ethical than the other options.
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | If you want another option, check out TransferWise - they
           | should be able to open you an account as well.
        
           | calcifer wrote:
           | > the only bank that is willing to do business with me is
           | Revolut.
           | 
           | That's because Revolut isn't a UK bank. Until very recently
           | (less than a year ago), it wasn't a bank at all anywhere.
           | Unlike Monzo, Starling et al. (which are UK banks) Revolut is
           | an "electronic money institution" and hence your balance
           | isn't protected by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme
           | (FSCS).
        
             | nsteel wrote:
             | I didn't realise this. Why would anyone accept this risk
             | and use Revolut as anything more than a place for pocket
             | money while abroad?!
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | People who have no choice or don't know any better.
        
           | raesene9 wrote:
           | The problem of lacking credit history has been around for a
           | long time, I remember getting a credit card, which I paid off
           | in full every month, just to increase my credit score ~ 20
           | years ago.
           | 
           | For people without a good credit history in the UK there is
           | meant to be "basic bank accounts" which don't require credit
           | checking as they don't offer overdrafts
           | (https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-
           | money/banking/bas...)
           | 
           | That said, you will still need proof of identity/address. If
           | a bank is taking you on without those, I'd struggle to see
           | how it's meeting KYC (Know your customer) requirements.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | As far as I know the aforementioned banks merely check for
             | a credit bureau record (and absence of any fraud markers)
             | to use for KYC as opposed to for _credit_ eligibility, so
             | if he 's being rejected for those his problem is not
             | _creditworthiness_ but the complete lack of CRA record. It
             | 's unlikely he'll qualify for _any_ credit card with
             | absolutely zero records.
             | 
             | His best bet is to open an account at a brick & mortar bank
             | which will be able to verify his identity using physical
             | documents and not only skip the CRA check, but actually
             | _create_ a CRA record (which can be a good or bad thing
             | depending on your opinions regarding privacy). After a year
             | or so, he should become eligible for those accounts
             | accounts (if the lack of CRA record is truly what caused
             | them to reject initially) and even qualify for a credit
             | card if needed.
        
               | jozvolskyef wrote:
               | Thank you for your insightful comment explaining how the
               | CRA process works. I'm not interested in credit, but it
               | is good to know that it takes a year merely to qualify
               | for a score.
               | 
               | Last year, I stuffed every document I owned into a folder
               | and went to a brick & mortar bank to open an account. No
               | dice. The customer adviser went through some kind of a
               | decision tree and told me that my best bet is to apply
               | for benefits if I am eligible, saying that I just need to
               | show them some letter without claiming the benefit. It is
               | absurd. If wearing an ankle tag for a month to prove my
               | address was an option, I'd go with that.
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | > but it is good to know that it takes a year merely to
               | qualify for a score.
               | 
               | Technically it doesn't - banks leak your details to CRAs
               | upon every major interaction (account application, etc)
               | and regularly confirm them if they have a continued
               | relationship with you (if you have an account open
               | they'll typically report the status of the account every
               | month).
               | 
               | However other banks may still be suspicious of a brand
               | new record and might want to wait a few months before
               | trusting it (since if the record was created
               | fraudulently, it will usually get discovered and
               | rectified pretty early - if the record is there for a
               | long time, either it's legit or the fraudster has done an
               | above-average job). The "one year" number is purely
               | arbitrary but feels fair to me, that's probably what I'd
               | do if I was building such a system (though I'd also build
               | an escape hatch to allow people to confirm identity
               | differently without CRA scum being involved).
               | 
               | Furthermore, in the UK there is no concept of "credit
               | score". It's a myth perpetuated by the CRAs just so you
               | obsess over that meaningless number that they can tweak
               | every month to give you a reason to keep coming back and
               | look at their "offers". In the UK, lenders get your raw
               | report (aka identity, address history, recent credit
               | applications and their status, open accounts, etc) and
               | then make a decision internally based on their own
               | algorithms.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
        
       | substation13 wrote:
       | How do they make money?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | Interest on loaning your current account balance out.
        
         | sksksk wrote:
         | - Interchange fees (Monzo take ~1% of every card transaction)
         | 
         | - Packaged account fees (Monzo Plus, Premium and business Pro)
         | 
         | - Lending (Overdrafts, Personal Loans, Credit Card)
         | 
         | - Interest on bank deposits
        
           | blibble wrote:
           | they also charge you to take your own money out and put your
           | own money in(!!!)                   Cash withdrawal in pounds
           | in the UK: First PS250 in a rolling 30-day period free, 3%
           | after that          Cash deposit: PS1 per deposit to pay in
           | cash at any PayPoint
           | 
           | source: https://monzo.com/legal/fee-information/
        
             | willyt wrote:
             | I was surprised by this and it turns out its a bit of a
             | misrepresentation as you get unlimited fee free withdrawals
             | if you meet one of these criteria which, in the UK, pretty
             | much anyone except a teenager with no job will meet:
             | 
             | At least PS500 was paid into a Monzo account in your name
             | over the last rolling 35-day period, and you have at least
             | one active Direct Debit on the same account in the same
             | period.
             | 
             | You've received a Department of Work and Pensions or a
             | Department for Communities' payment into a Monzo account in
             | your name over the last rolling 35-day period.
             | 
             | You've received a student loan payment into a Monzo account
             | in your name over the last rolling 8-month period.
             | 
             | You're sharing a Monzo Joint Account with someone who has
             | done at least one of the above.
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | it's not misleading, it's true
               | 
               | if you lose your job, you're now being charged 3% to pull
               | your own money out
               | 
               | (and regardless: they still charge you to deposit your
               | own money, unheard of for retail customers)
        
               | ascorbic wrote:
               | The criteria seem to be mostly designed to ensure that
               | people who aren't using it as their main account can't do
               | things that cost Monzo lots of money. That said, if you
               | want to deal mostly with cash then Monzo probably isn't
               | for you, and I think they're ok with that.
        
             | 55555 wrote:
             | What the heck?
        
         | danpalmer wrote:
         | The short answer is that they don't really. UK retail banking
         | is notoriously low margin, and all of the major banks struggle
         | to make anything from their consumer businesses. Charging for
         | bank accounts is not something the UK market accepts.
         | 
         | They'll likely cover costs in the long term, and their business
         | banking will probably do fine, but I suspect the valuations
         | aren't justified. The main way that the major players make
         | money is through things like mortgages, wealth management for
         | the very wealthy, and through their investment banking arms.
         | 
         | Starling is another startup bank, a main competitor to Monzo.
         | While they're decidedly less "cool", they seem to have targeted
         | business banking much more, and I suspect that's why they're
         | now in a better position. Monzo went big on Monzo Plus and even
         | on its ~3rd? iteration, it seems to have had a lacklustre
         | reception. I'm Monzo user #13, about as onboard with the idea
         | as I could be, and I find it unconvincing.
         | 
         | Monzo have just launched Monzo Flex, an easy payment system
         | like AfterPay/ClearPay/Klarna. I'd normally expect that to do
         | well but it's about 2 years too late and going into a recession
         | is probably not the right time. Hopefully it'll do well as we
         | come out.
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | Starling makes money from business accounts (they pocket the
           | interest on those, and that interest amounts to more
           | considering business accounts keep a larger balance) and I
           | believe also provides services to other payment companies,
           | essentially SaaS-ing their tech.
           | 
           | It's a shame because this is something that Monzo could've
           | done just as well and there's absolutely a place (well, was -
           | that's now taken by Starling) in the market for it. Natwest
           | _still_ charges extra for a  "next-gen" business account that
           | allows multi-user access to a web UI, and I bet it's terrible
           | - this is something a company can Monzo could've built in
           | _days_ based on their existing modern tech at a time where
           | there was nothing like it in the market.
        
             | danpalmer wrote:
             | Monzo do have good tech, but I've also heard that there is
             | a "surprising amount of legacy tech" there as well. I'd
             | interpret that as either they do too many re-writes of
             | things, and/or they're perhaps not building at the level of
             | quality that they should have been. They have some
             | excellent engineers in the early team, but I've also seen a
             | lot of very inexperienced people go there, so that in
             | combination with a "move fast" mentality, will likely
             | result in a lot of codebase issues and churn.
             | 
             | Starling seem to have taken a "slow and steady wins the
             | race" sort of approach, and had a bunch of experienced
             | engineers build a boring old Java app. Nothing special but
             | I'm not surprised that it is working out ok in the long
             | run.
        
               | nicoburns wrote:
               | Monzo seems to have gone all-in on microservices (they
               | have _thousands_ apparently), which sounds like an
               | absolute nightmare.
        
               | andrewingram wrote:
               | One of their earliest engineers was apparently a bit of a
               | microservices guru, so there's a good chance that at
               | least they did it _well_ , in terms of mitigating the
               | litany of common issues. Though I'm still skeptical as to
               | whether it was actually a good idea.
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | Yes that is one of my concerns with their tech stack. The
               | management overhead of that must be insane.
        
               | raesene9 wrote:
               | I've noticed that about Monzo. They were very early
               | adopters of Kubernetes amongst other things, which
               | surprised me as early Kubernetes was not exactly
               | secure...
               | 
               | Having seen some presentations about their tech. stack,
               | it seems very clever and has interesting ideas, but I was
               | worried that once the people who designed it had moved on
               | , how maintainable would it be (coming from a banking
               | background where I found that systems lived on for EVAR)
        
             | dbbk wrote:
             | Monzo does have business accounts... I have one. It's
             | great.
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | They have them _now_ , long after Starling ate their
               | lunch - my point was that they could've offered them
               | _before_ Starling and probably made a killing (it would
               | 've been the only option for a modern business bank
               | account in the market back in those days).
        
           | user_named wrote:
           | I find it hard to believe that they struggle to make money
           | off bank accounts. It's an intentional top of funnel strategy
           | to offer free accounts.
        
             | danpalmer wrote:
             | UK banks work to an expectation of 0-3% margin. In Monzo's
             | favour is that they don't have to operate a branch network,
             | but then again they are small compared to the high street
             | banks. There's just not a lot of money available in
             | accounts, even accounting for using it for lending etc.
             | Also bear in mind that while they can use deposits to fund
             | some amount of lending, the amount they have to keep on
             | hand, collateral, insurance (not sure if it's called that)
             | with the Bank of England, etc, are all very heavily
             | regulated so that they can't mess it up, which conversely
             | means it's much harder to monetise than expected based on a
             | basic understanding of fractional reserve banking.
        
             | 55555 wrote:
             | Go look up how much money they have in deposits. When I
             | checked in 2017/18 they had like 87mm USD total. That's a
             | single UHNW account at a "real" bank. Maybe it would earn
             | 1-2mm in annual profits from AUM to cover a dozen staff?
             | Idk I'm not an expert.
        
               | ascorbic wrote:
               | PS4.4 billion in Feb, so about 6bn USD.
               | https://www.statista.com/statistics/1118161/customer-
               | loans-a...
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | > I find it hard to believe that they struggle to make
             | money off bank accounts.
             | 
             | Why is that? Current accounts are a loss-leader for most
             | (all?) legacy banks too, they're used to lure the customer
             | in so they can then pitch revenue-generating products such
             | as credit cards or mortgages.
        
           | stephen_g wrote:
           | Do they lend? That's where basically all of a bank's profits
           | come from, deposits are just there mostly as low-cost
           | liquidity (and because creating deposits and the flows of
           | inter-bank transfers are all part of enabling lending to
           | happen).
           | 
           | So I'm always surprised that lending and credit isn't the
           | core strategy of these banks - there's very little money to
           | be made in fees...
        
             | danpalmer wrote:
             | There's not even that much to be made in most lending (by
             | transactions). Lending through overdrafts doesn't make a
             | lot as it's typically lending to customers who are least
             | able to afford it.
             | 
             | Mortgages and credit cards are the big ones, and Monzo does
             | neither. However I would like to see a credit card from
             | Monzo.
        
               | madeofpalk wrote:
               | Monzo does have Buy Now Pay Later now, for whatever
               | that's worth.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | They are very conservative with their lending. They do
             | lend, but not much (relatively speaking), and in any case
             | I'm not sure lending alone will satisfy their investor's
             | expectations.
        
           | nly wrote:
           | I see plenty of people with blue Monzo+ cards.
           | 
           | I think since app dominated baking became a thing a lot more
           | people are paying for premium accounts.
           | 
           | Imho they all offer poor value for money though
        
       | rand49an wrote:
       | Sadly closed my Monzo account down recently after applying for a
       | joint account with my partner and being denied with no
       | explanation (both long term users, good credit etc). Apparently a
       | common story. Opened a Starling account and got one straight
       | away. It's a shame because the Monzo user interface is miles
       | better.
        
         | srmarm wrote:
         | This mirrors my experience a couple of weeks back. Having come
         | across many others with the same problem I almost wondered if
         | it was a case of pretend to have a feature to gauge interest
         | (I'm sure it wasn't - I hate those things!)
         | 
         | I also ended up using starling instead - perfect really.
         | 
         | While I like the Monzo travel bits when travelling I find bank
         | accounts much of a muchness really for my basic needs so don't
         | have any real loyalty.
        
           | arranf wrote:
           | For what it's worth I've had a joint account for years. It
           | works fine but there are some wrinkles - mainly that it's not
           | a first class citizen. Split the bill and other Monzo
           | specific features only work with your individual account.
        
         | drcongo wrote:
         | Monzo froze my account for over a year with no explanation and
         | only released my money after I reported them to the financial
         | ombudsman. Switched to Starling and couldn't be happier with
         | the decision. Monzo's customer support is a clown car,
         | Starling's is fast, responsive and professional.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | Starling is no better, you were just lucky. I found Starling
         | customer service appalling. Basically "go somewhere else if you
         | don't like it".
        
           | dazc wrote:
           | I have a monzo personal and business account and I haven't
           | had any major issues. As a former Barclays customer, they'd
           | have to be fairly terrible to be any worse though.
           | 
           | I did try an open a Starling account once but they claimed my
           | phone number was already linked to an existing account, which
           | I found strange and wasn't prepared to jump through the hoops
           | required to prove otherwise.
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | Well it might be true. They just haven't realised that
             | there are only so many phone numbers, and they change
             | hands.
        
         | 3adawi wrote:
         | I have this same issue - really weird - I have a joint account
         | already with someone on my Starling and can't start a second
         | one, anyone know another alternative I could use for a joint
         | account?
        
       | robertlagrant wrote:
       | > First, a note about the context. We started the company in the
       | UK in February 2015, when "digital banks" weren't yet a popular
       | idea. BankSimple had launched in 2012 with some big plans, but
       | sold to BBVA in early 2014 with about 100,000 accounts, having
       | struggled to raise sufficient funding to continue. N26 started
       | development in late 2013, initially as a card for kids, while
       | Revolut was founded a few months after Monzo, in April 2015.
       | 
       | Is it odd that the author, along with the rest of the founders,
       | came from Starling Bank[1], a UK digital bank founded in 2014,
       | and yet Starling Bank isn't mentioned?
       | 
       | Slightly less obvious, but still important, is the UK's first
       | internet bank, Egg, was founded in 1998! [2]
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monzo [2]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_Banking
        
         | oakesm9 wrote:
         | Before starting Monzo they attempted a hostile takeover of
         | Starling but we're rebuffed by the founder. Tom took basically
         | all The staff and started Monzo, so I can imagine he doesn't
         | want to draw too much attention to it.
         | 
         | Anne Boden's book is worth reading if your interested in the
         | early history of digital first banks in the UK
         | 
         | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51007680
        
           | ralferoo wrote:
           | The irony is that Starling is consistently the better bank,
           | from my perspective.
           | 
           | I started off getting Monzo when it advertised itself as a
           | pre-paid debit card and it's big selling point was free
           | foreign ATM transactions. I never actually used it all that
           | much (I've been with them about 5-6 years, and maybe done
           | about PS1000 total foreign withdrawals).
           | 
           | At some point when they introduced limits, there was a post
           | on their forum comparing them to Starling, Revolut and N26
           | and others. N26 was a bit of a hassle, but I got the other
           | two just in case I needed more than the PS200 a month you
           | were now allowed.
           | 
           | Since then, the service at Monzo has steadily declined, as
           | they decide to start charging fees for this that or the other
           | than used to be free, adding more and more junk dressed up to
           | look pretty, but every month or so the service gets degraded
           | a little more somehow. An extra charge here. A restriction
           | there. More in-app advertising for services I don't want,
           | etc.
           | 
           | And yet throughout that, Starling has continued to do
           | everything you'd expect from a bank, and with the convenience
           | of an online bank. Their app hasn't really changed at all in
           | that time, and yet somehow it's still better than Monzo's.
           | Simpler, sure, but certainly less annoying.
           | 
           | It's telling that I've never felt comfortable trusting Monzo
           | with my salary, because it always feels like it'll fold any
           | moment, so I've always had my salary paid into a "real bank"
           | and just have a standing order each month to transfer PS500 a
           | month for monthly expenditure, but pay most bills directly
           | from the old brick and mortar bank. I needed to keep that old
           | account around anyway, because Monzo makes life impossible if
           | you need occasionally to use cheques.
           | 
           | And so, when I started a company and needed to choose a bank
           | for my business account, it was a no brainer - Starling.
        
             | oumua_don17 wrote:
             | >> It's telling that I've never felt comfortable trusting
             | Monzo with my salary, because it always feels like it'll
             | fold any moment
             | 
             | Can you elaborate more on this, the fold part?
             | 
             | >> from the old brick and mortar bank
             | 
             | Which such bank/s you recommend?
             | 
             | PS: I have been in UK for quite a few years now and only
             | use Monzo.
             | 
             | Edit: typo and query
        
               | raesene9 wrote:
               | Of the "traditional" banks First Direct generally have
               | quite a good reputation. I've used them for a while and
               | they've been fine. Customer service is good on the
               | occasions I use it and the product's been reliable.
               | 
               | That said I'd be surprised to see a bank like Monzo just
               | fold without warning. It's possible that one or more of
               | the "challenger" banks won't last a long time, but the
               | outcome there will most likely be them getting bought by
               | someone else.
        
             | heurisko wrote:
             | > It's telling that I've never felt comfortable trusting
             | Monzo with my salary, because it always feels like it'll
             | fold any moment
             | 
             | In which case you will be protected up to PS85,000 by the
             | FSCS.
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | as long as you've got another account to pay it into?
               | 
               | and don't mind being without your money for some time
               | 
               | (personally I wouldn't have my salary paid into a bank
               | that's losing even increasing sums of money)
        
         | jonatron wrote:
         | I thought the first internet bank was Smile
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_(bank) , but it looks like
         | the claim is "first fully digital bank".
        
       | jtwigg wrote:
       | Earlier this year my partner and I switched our joint account
       | from Monzo to Starling simply because we both hated using the
       | Monzo app. Navigating the app feels unnatural to us and probably
       | due to how infrequently we use it, we never learnt to live with
       | it. Last week I finally closed my personal Monzo account as I
       | only used it for one small DD a month and much prefer the
       | Starling and NatWest apps.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | I have used Starling app and I couldn't make sense of
         | statements. I think it's equally bad as Monzo.
         | 
         | Also I kind of despise the idea that you have to have an app to
         | access the account.
         | 
         | After trying these "challenger" banks I am staying with my good
         | old High Street bank where I can access my account from the web
         | and it does not have any confusing bells and whistles.
        
           | kieloo wrote:
           | I don't know about Monzo but you can access your Starling
           | account on the web.
        
             | varispeed wrote:
             | You need to have an app to sign up to Starling.
        
             | dazc wrote:
             | You can access a monzo business account on the web to
             | access statements and such. I believe they also have an
             | emergency web access feature for personal accounts.
             | 
             | https://monzo.com/blog/2018/06/13/how-to-get-online-in-an-
             | em...
        
               | varispeed wrote:
               | Monzo business account is very much useless as it isn't
               | connected to SWIFT.
        
         | Cxckers wrote:
         | I made the same switch due to Monzo refusing me and my partner
         | a joint account. Starling had no issue with giving us one
        
       | mojuba wrote:
       | On a general note, referral rewards are not necessarily a good
       | thing i.e. when you say "invite a friend and get $X". Turns out
       | non-money rewards work better.
       | 
       | A quote from [1]:
       | 
       | > When money comes into play it switches us from 'social mode' to
       | 'business transaction mode'. We become more selfish, distant,
       | less helpful, and less willing to be helped.
       | 
       | You don't even need research to back this, it seems obvious when
       | you think about it.
       | 
       | [1] https://tips.ariyh.com/p/non-money-referrals
        
       | lysergia wrote:
       | I downloaded Monzo on the Play store and installed it. During
       | registration it asked for personal data like my address etc then
       | proceeded to tell me it's a UK only app. I was shocked. I'm in
       | the EEA and thought I could use the app. It should be clear in
       | the app's description that it's a UK only affair. I imagine this
       | has happened to many more people other than me.
        
         | ralphmelish wrote:
         | It is not a simple app, it's a bank. Not sure how you expect to
         | open a UK bank account not living in the UK...
         | 
         | Edit: I've just checked the description in the Play Store and
         | it says 'Open a full UK bank account'. Maybe that is new, but
         | it is pretty clear.
        
           | berdario wrote:
           | Non-resident accounts exist (though they are generally more
           | expensive), and several countries don't even require any
           | proof of residence (i.e. you can open a bank account while on
           | a tourist visa)
        
             | ralphmelish wrote:
             | I know they exist, but they are not the norm. They even
             | call them 'international bank accounts' in most cases (I
             | think HSBC calls it that, or Barclays). Most common bank
             | accounts will require proof of address in the respective
             | country. I don't think it is expected to specify all that
             | in the app description.
        
         | surfer7837 wrote:
         | Kind of hard to determine if you're a UK tax resident without
         | some details, no?
        
           | Jamie9912 wrote:
           | You don't need to be a UK tax resident to have a Monzo
           | account. I have UK citizenship, but am not a resident or tax
           | resident
        
             | BillinghamJ wrote:
             | FYI, I'm pretty sure they actually do require you to be a
             | resident, though a lot of people get away with not updating
             | their address
             | 
             | https://monzo.com/help/legal-stuff/tax-residency-not-uk
        
           | lysergia wrote:
           | There's no mention of it being a strictly UK affair in the
           | app description. I imagine 100s of people download it each
           | day, fill in the form and then bail once they realize it's UK
           | only.
        
             | ralphmelish wrote:
             | I've just checked the description in the Play Store and it
             | says 'Open a full UK bank account'. Maybe that is new, but
             | it is pretty clear.
        
               | berdario wrote:
               | That doesn't mean that it's closed to non-residents.
        
               | nsteel wrote:
               | Don't all UK banks require a UK address?
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | But that's not something you'd expect a non-resident to
               | know. Making account opening criteria transparent
               | wouldn't hurt anything and would save everyone time.
        
       | Nextgrid wrote:
       | Good old Monzo times.
       | 
       | Sadly, in my opinion the company took on too much investment and
       | was now bound to deliver tech-company returns with a product that
       | fundamentally isn't compatible with them. This led them to become
       | yet another bullshit "growth & engagement" operation and
       | ultimately killed the appeal of the product, all while
       | competitors such as Starling Bank stepped up their game and
       | delivered a very similar product that is not only profitable but
       | doesn't have those "growth & engagement" vibes because they
       | didn't have the same pressure and could afford to take things
       | slow.
        
         | klelatti wrote:
         | A bit ironic given Tom literally worked for Starling at the
         | beginning. A bit odd that this doesn't get a mention.
        
           | blibble wrote:
           | yeah, as far as I'm aware the only reason Monzo exists is
           | because of a falling out between Tom and the Starling CEO
           | 
           | I don't know what really went on, but Starling's side was
           | reported in the UK press:
           | https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/starling-bank-boss-
           | anne-b...
        
             | fumblebee wrote:
             | Steven Bartlett has a really insightful with Tom Blomfield
             | about this [1], and then also with Starling CEO Anne Boden
             | [2]. While I'm generally not a great fan of his podcast,
             | these two I found to be fascinating.
             | 
             | [1] https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/e86-monzo-ceo-on-
             | death...
             | 
             | [2] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e107-starling-
             | bank-bui...
        
               | klelatti wrote:
               | Thanks - I read Anne Borden's book so will be interesting
               | to hear Tom's side too.
        
               | dazc wrote:
               | I found Anne Boden a tad disingenuous, mentioning 'the
               | book' at every opportunity. Tom sounded more genuine, to
               | me.
        
       | deeptote wrote:
       | Given Monzo's hiring practices, I'm not sanguine about the future
       | of this company.
       | 
       | I myself went through their interview process not long ago and to
       | say it lived up to the sentiment of the glassdoor reviews is
       | putting it mildly. Several rounds, silly armchair-psychologist
       | behavioral questions, and the interviewers made it blatant that
       | they didn't want to be there. Did my last interview at 4pm one
       | day, got rejected by 8am next business day. I've gotten offers
       | from Google, Amazon, etc so I know I interview well, not sure
       | what happened there but really got the vibe that their employees
       | are never quite sure if they're doing well, and management likes
       | it that way.
       | 
       | They're a bank struggling to market themselves as a tech company.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | I'd you have offers from Google and Amazon then why are you
         | interviewing at a place like Monzo? They can probably tell
         | you're both wasting your time so rejected you on that.
        
           | sethjr5rtfgh wrote:
           | So let me ask you. Is the only reason that you're at Shopify
           | that you couldn't get an offer from Google or Amazon?
        
             | chrisseaton wrote:
             | I did apply to Google before and didn't get an offer so yes
             | I guess that is literally true.
        
           | deeptote wrote:
           | I turned down my offers from Google at Amazon because I value
           | WLB and being able to continue with my freelance work and
           | content creation. I figured working at a bank would be
           | congruent with this sentiment.
           | 
           | You do cool work, btw. Just be careful, Shopify seems to be
           | real layoff happy. I've even had some of your staff engineers
           | hmu on Linkedin for a position and I've been having to say
           | thanks but no thanks.
        
           | sonthonax wrote:
           | Because Monzo will pay more than Google or Amazon in the UK.
        
             | shrikant wrote:
             | This hasn't been the case in my experience interviewing at
             | all of those three -- both Google and Amazon's comp for a
             | similar role and level at Monzo were way higher.
             | 
             | Edit: to clarify, I didn't actually end up interviewing at
             | Monzo because the recruiter said no pretty much right away
             | on hearing my salary ask.
        
             | chrisseaton wrote:
             | I didn't think anyone paid more than Google?
        
               | nly wrote:
               | Facebook pay better than Google in London from what I've
               | heard.
        
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