[HN Gopher] On pretending to have read books
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       On pretending to have read books
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2022-08-06 13:02 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thecritic.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thecritic.co.uk)
        
       | Clubber wrote:
       | >The sad truth is that we are becoming an illiterate society.
       | 
       | I guess this is the shame hook of the article. I don't think
       | we're illiterate, probably the opposite. The amount of knowledge
       | I gain by reading things other than books far surpasses the
       | amount of knowledge I've gained reading books, and I've read a
       | lot of them.
       | 
       | What's the point of reading books? Gaining knowledge. What's the
       | point of riding a horse? Travel. Just because one method of doing
       | a thing is losing popularity doesn't mean we are illiterate or we
       | don't travel.
       | 
       | In fact, I think it's the opposite. I can read a 500 page book
       | about a topic and retain maybe 1/10th of it after a year. I can
       | read a wikipedia article on the same subject and retain 90% of it
       | a year later. The latter is certainly better for a broad base of
       | knowledge for the curious.
        
       | marc_abonce wrote:
       | Funnily enough, pretending to read a book will almost always make
       | you better at these conversations than actually reading the book.
       | 
       | This is something I learned the hard way back in school. Whenever
       | I actually read the book/chapter/article I would almost
       | invariably do way worse on the quiz or essay compared to when I
       | "cheated" by only reading a couple of summaries or reviews.
       | 
       | In fact, I really enjoyed reading Eco's Name of the Rose, but I
       | didn't get OP's _palimpsest_ reference and even after looking it
       | up I still don 't remember the exact context where this came up.
       | I remember the novel more for it's retelling of early Franciscan
       | history and the proto-Protestant movements in medieval Europe,
       | and not so much for the whodunit mystery plot.
       | 
       | The reason is that a book has so much content that every reader
       | will have a completely different takeaway and will remember
       | different parts of it. However, most of the so-called classics
       | have an semi "official" interpretation and "memorable quotes"
       | that you're supposed to bring up.
       | 
       | That's not to encourage people to skip reading books, though.
       | Reading some books can be a very pleasurable experience in itself
       | in the same way that you wouldn't get the same experience from
       | just reading the plot of a musical play or watching it in fast-
       | forward.
        
         | technothrasher wrote:
         | The best grade on a book essay I got in High School was for a
         | book that didn't even exist. We were supposed to read a book of
         | our choosing and write about it. I couldn't be bothered (ok,
         | ok, I wasn't the best student), so I just made one up and the
         | teacher commented that it was the best essay in the class.
         | 
         | As an adult, I've now read a lot of the classics I was supposed
         | to have read in High School, and wish I could go back and tell
         | my knucklehead past self to just read them, as they are
         | actually very good.
        
           | bsder wrote:
           | The main problem is teachers not adjusting the books to the
           | personality of the student. I often wonder if many US high-
           | school English teachers don't actually read anything outside
           | of their curriculum literature.
           | 
           | The glory of English literature is that it varies widely.
           | Want a swashbuckle? Got it--here's "Ivanhoe". Want a soap
           | opera? "Tom Jones". All manner of surreal? Roald Dahl.
           | Incredibly dark humor? Late Mark Twain.
           | 
           | Even when someone says "I don't like author <X>.", if someone
           | explains what they don't like, you can often find a different
           | story that they like just fine.
           | 
           | By contrast, forcing "Pride and Prejudice" or "Wuthering
           | Heights" onto a ninth grade teenager who digs surreal humor
           | is just going to make them want to give up on reading
           | completely.
        
           | quercusa wrote:
           | > _wish I could go back and tell my knucklehead past self to
           | just read them, as they are actually very good._
           | 
           | I doubt it would have done any good. There's so much in those
           | great books that teenagers won't appreciate. You might read
           | _Moby Dick_ at that age and think it 's a just story about a
           | guy chasing a whale, with a lot of digressions.
        
             | robocat wrote:
             | > teenagers won't appreciate
             | 
             | I'm middle-aged, read a lot, but Moby Duck is just about
             | chasing a whale to me. I just don't recognise the metaphors
             | and deeper meanings, unless somebody with a word rotator
             | mind explains it (or I read the Cliff's notes - which I
             | didn't get either).
        
               | technothrasher wrote:
               | I just felt bad for Melville when I got to chapters where
               | he introduced his classification system for whales. He
               | seemed so excited by it, and it's unfortunately obvious
               | with the passage of time that it was very wrong.
        
       | theknocker wrote:
        
       | mightybyte wrote:
       | > Now, over ten trillion new titles hit the shelves every month
       | in Young Adult fiction alone.
       | 
       | Say what? Ten _trillion_? That doesn 't strike me as plausible.
       | Which raises the question...what is the correct number? Ten
       | billion new titles per month doesn't sound plausible either. Ten
       | thousand sounds more reasonable. Maybe ten million but that seems
       | like stretching it.
        
       | Izkata wrote:
       | > Tellingly the first download was The Complete Works of
       | Shakespeare -- the next, one of the original bluffer's guides, by
       | Charles Lamb. His abridgments were good enough for James Joyce,
       | who based Ulysses on Lamb's filleting of Homer. Would the
       | masterpiece of modernism have been any better, more highly
       | esteemed -- or more readable -- if he'd actually read The Odyssey
       | first, instead of just getting the gist? I doubt it.
       | 
       | I know of a modern version of this: When K. A. Applegate was
       | writing _Everworld_ , she mentioned in an interview that whenever
       | she wanted to introduce a new god or mythology, she made a point
       | to never read the actual myths/stories and instead just get an
       | overview. That way she wouldn't get stuck on how the various
       | mythological characters were previously written and would be able
       | to fit their abilities and personalities into the books, while
       | still grounding them in what how the myths portrayed them.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everworld
        
       | elliekelly wrote:
       | I'd never heard of this publication before but the way this
       | article so casually and confidently touted the importance their
       | own literary reviews made me feel like I ought to have! I looked
       | up their launch editorial[1] (from 2019) and it seems they're
       | angling to be a(n ostensibly) "middle of the road"/both sides are
       | bad _New Yorker_ with funding from Jeremy Hosking[2].
       | 
       | [1]https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2019/introducing-
       | the...
       | 
       | [2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Hosking
        
         | pmyteh wrote:
         | I don't read the launch editorial as 'both sides are bad', but
         | as a challenge to what they perceive as a sloppy and pervasive
         | left-wing 'default' opinion. The 'new orthodoxy' language is
         | straight out of the ongoing culture war, in particular.
         | 
         | If they're aiming for a _London Review of Books_ kind of space
         | that makes sense - LRB is decidedly left wing if pretty
         | heterodox and broad-minded - but for the political commentary
         | space I would have thought the _Spectator_ already covered a
         | contrarian conservative perspective fairly well. But then I
         | guess I 'm not in their target market.
         | 
         | [Edit: I see they have got Toby Young on their editorial board.
         | Definitely Conservative (as well as conservative), then.]
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | I mean the "both sides bad" angle is flatly stated _in_ the
           | editorial:
           | 
           | > Ossified thought and a lack of intellectual rigour are
           | depressing features of all sides of our political and
           | cultural debate.
           | 
           | It's pretty clear they're trying to dress up their agenda-ed
           | editorials as "common sense" compromise but if middle-of-the-
           | road were truly the publication's aim I can't imagine
           | Haskings would have had any interest in funding it.
        
       | havblue wrote:
       | Related Onion News Network video: https://youtu.be/fDBzQkWeQ5g
       | 
       | New Kindle Helps Readers Show Off By Shouting Title Of Book
       | Loudly And Repeatedly
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | I thought for sure this essay would reference Pierre Bayard's
       | really fun _How to Talk About Books You Haven 't Read_. Oh well!
       | 
       | Anyway, I think there are at least three kinds of reading.
       | 
       | The one where you skim some reviews and read twenty pages is one
       | of them. You can do this in order to just be able to say you've
       | read something without putting in the "work", but you can also do
       | this as part of a serious study of some subject: For example,
       | maybe I only need to read a specific chapter in a book to answer
       | a question I have, or I only need to check every page that
       | mentions a specific keyword related to what I'm studying.
       | 
       | Another way of reading is when you march through a book, page-by-
       | page, as quickly as possible. When you get to the last page you
       | say "done" and then you move on. A few months later, all you mat
       | remember about the book is a outline of the plot, in a novel, or
       | maybe one or two important points, in a non-fiction book.
       | 
       | (I think listening to books in audiobook format is another way of
       | reading, but in practice it's often very close to this second
       | form)
       | 
       | The last one is when you read the book, then think about it, then
       | read it again, then read _about_ it, then keep reading it over
       | and over for the rest of your life.
       | 
       | The latter is much more rewarding, but my point is not that one
       | is better than the other, but that all of these are separate
       | activities that can legitimately be called reading. Maybe we need
       | more words for reading.
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | maybe should mention Pierre Menard who wrote a famous book he
         | hadn't read
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Menard,_Author_of_the_Q...
        
         | lysergia wrote:
         | It's worth having some form of takeaway from a book, even if
         | it's just one profound paragraph that resonated with you, and
         | the rest can be filtered out. I mostly read self help, and have
         | managed to boil some books down to a little kernel of truth
         | that I use daily to help me navigate life. Holding a whole book
         | in your head can be done.
        
         | tapanjk wrote:
         | > The last one is when you read the book, then think about it,
         | then read it again, then read about it, then keep reading it
         | over and over for the rest of your life.
         | 
         | Agree. Would love to see examples from people of books that
         | fall in this category. I assume it is a short list for most
         | people.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | Mine (predictably):
           | 
           | 1984
           | 
           | Stranger In A Strange Land
           | 
           | The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress
           | 
           | Time Enough For Love
           | 
           | Friday
           | 
           | The Crying Of Lot 49
           | 
           | Seveneves
           | 
           | Neuromancer
           | 
           | I've read all of these at least 4 times, with reading-about-
           | them in between.
           | 
           | I usually pick one up to re-read just a part of it, then I
           | get sucked in and before I know it I've re-read the whole
           | thing.
        
             | StormChaser_5 wrote:
             | Have you tried "The player of games"? Based on the others
             | you have there you might like it.
        
               | jasone wrote:
               | I've read eight of the Culture novels now, and "The
               | Player of Games" was in the bottom two for me. I'm
               | mystified that most others seem to rank this book so
               | high. "Use of Weapons" and "Surface Detail" are my
               | favorites so far, but they're rarely mentioned here.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | I adore the Culture novels, but I read them for the first
               | time last year.
               | 
               | So far I have only re-read Inversions and Excession, the
               | two that were the most fun the first time through.
        
           | erulabs wrote:
           | For me it's Nietzsche's "Thus spoke Zarathustra". I'm a
           | different person each time I get through certain sections of
           | that book. That said, I'm sure one of the hundreds of unread
           | books I own is equally life changing.
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | For me, I was thinking of Gene Wolfe when I wrote that. I've
           | reread the entire "solar cycle" at least once every couple
           | years for the last 20 years, and of course I own all the
           | secondary material I can find on it. And I subscribe to three
           | different podcasts where people just discuss it. And Youtube
           | channels, and mailing lists... I don't think I'll ever really
           | get to the bottom.
           | 
           | But it's not uncommon for people to do this with religious
           | texts, too. Reading for devotion, for understanding, out of a
           | since of obligation, whatever. Doesn't matter: it's a
           | distinct way of interacting with books, different from
           | reading a potboiler mystery novel.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | I'd also love to see a list of the most common books people
           | claim to have read, but have not.
           | 
           | There's some obvious stuff:                 - Proust       -
           | Tolstoy, Dostoevsky       - Joyce (although to be fair, how
           | can you tell?)       - Probably David Foster Wallace       -
           | Knuth :)
        
           | ivad wrote:
           | Notes from Underground was the book that really pulled me
           | into Dostoevsky (after initially reading C&P and disliking it
           | - I doubtless missed quite a lot the first time through).
           | Definitely in that category for me.
        
             | berlinquin wrote:
             | "I am a sick man... I am a spiteful man." A good hook, but
             | I had a tough time finishing Notes. The narrator really
             | shows that yes, he is in fact a sick and spiteful man. Not
             | one I'd want to pick up again.
             | 
             | I got pulled into Dostoyevsky through Brothers K, which led
             | me to Notes eventually.
             | 
             | Do you know what translation of Notes you read? I think I
             | read P&V, and if I read it again I'd want to try something
             | else
        
               | ivad wrote:
               | I've read Garnett and P&V and personally much prefer the
               | Garnett translation!
               | 
               | A nice comparison: https://web.archive.org/web/2013110918
               | 2920/http://comparetra...
        
         | tomxor wrote:
         | > The latter is much more rewarding, but my point is not that
         | one is better than the other [...]
         | 
         | I disagree that it's not better...
         | 
         | The "march through a book, page-by-page, as quickly as
         | possible" method is wasteful of your time. That just seems like
         | a task for the sake of being able to say "i've read it", and
         | even if someone is that pretentious, it's a pretty low return
         | on investment - I say screw that, you can only read so many
         | books in your life, read the ones that genuinely interest you
         | at that moment in time. Even if you don't finish or read it
         | front to back contiguously without large breaks, at least the
         | content is meaningful to you while you read it, so you get the
         | most from your time spent reading.
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | I've reread books and if some smartass had challenged me about
       | the contents of some of them I would have probably looked a bit
       | suspicious.
       | 
       | I've reached an age where some books I've kept because I've read
       | twice, I have accepted that I likely won't read a fourth time
       | (and also running out of places to put them) so I have made the
       | possibly foolish possibly mature choice to start Mary Kondo'ing
       | my book collection, with a send off. Read them once more, then
       | surrender them to a young person or the used bookstore.
       | 
       | The last and main series I parted with was Dune, which I started
       | reading when the first rumors of Villeneuve's adaptation came
       | out. My recollection of the last three books was quite different,
       | perhaps a reflection of how uptight I was at the first reading,
       | where I found the whole Matre story arc to be quite salacious.
       | The reread was a quite different experience and I'll be curious
       | to see what happens with Foundation, and Thad Williams.
        
       | lolc wrote:
       | Eh, if the book is not worth the read to you, why the angst about
       | admitting that? Sure, if your job is to read books and write
       | critiques on them, your position may be different. Thinking of
       | it, it should be admissible to say "I stopped reading for these
       | reasons" even for a critic. But what can they write after that?
       | It's not going to fill the page, is it?
        
         | havblue wrote:
         | By being able to pretend that you've seen a television show you
         | won't be left out of the conversation when it drifts towards
         | something that people feel passionately about like Breaking
         | Bad. With books there might be even more pressure: demonstrate
         | your knowledge or you might not get invited for brunch next
         | week.
        
           | hindsightbias wrote:
           | Have always considered Atlas Shrugged to be the best example
           | and anti-thesis too. I've met a lot of people who say it's
           | their favorite book but it becomes clear they've never really
           | read most of it or finished it under light questioning. But
           | it will get you invited to those parties anyway.
           | 
           | On the left, they've never read it and mentioning will cause
           | your brunch invite to get lost.
        
             | lolc wrote:
             | Haha, I loved reading Rand in my teens. Also Tolkien.
             | Somehow people are comfortable with having read the one
             | fantasy land, not the other. I guess it's because Tolkien
             | didn't write to change current politics. Rand did.
             | 
             | I did relate more to The Fountainhead and We The Living
             | though. Atlas Shrugged is too damn preachy. It seems to me
             | one needs a good deal of righteousness to think this a good
             | book. Yeah, signaling goes a long way there.
        
           | lolc wrote:
           | I'm so used to be left out of television show discussions
           | that I couldn't imagine pretending. I'm ok not getting
           | invited for brunch if that means I don't have to meet people
           | that have expectations about the books I read. Creepy to
           | think that people feel pressured into that.
           | 
           | Edit: Not disagreeing with what you say. It explains the
           | situation of the author rather well. I live in blissful
           | ignorance.
        
       | dimitar wrote:
       | People ask me why I buy some many books when obviously I haven't
       | read them all - I usually ask them if they wear all their clothes
       | all the time.
       | 
       | I think it is is perfectly fine not to finish a book. Or read a
       | few chapters to see if you like it. Or skip the introductions or
       | the notes. Or even just read the notes (I have an awesome
       | translation of the Odyssey - the notes are more enjoyable than
       | the poem!). I usually don't finish long book series.
       | 
       | I have books that I've collected for another time where I would
       | enjoy them. Perhaps a vacation or sick leave.
       | 
       | Point is, there are many ways to enjoy books, and we should feel
       | more open about it and less judgemental of the way others enjoy
       | them.
        
         | thenerdhead wrote:
         | There's a Japanese term for that; tsundoku.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsundoku
        
       | satisfice wrote:
       | If I read this it will ruin a good joke.
        
       | icambron wrote:
       | I can't identify with any of this--I guess I simply don't travel
       | in social circles where reading books confers status--but I will
       | say this article is wonderfully written and entertaining
       | throughout. In particular, I got a good chuckle out of this turn
       | of phrase:
       | 
       | > You don't have to go fully commando, of course. There are
       | plenty of briefs available.
        
         | scubbo wrote:
         | Oh, wonderful. I was (perhaps fittingly, given the topic)
         | skimming, and didn't notice this for the excellent pun that it
         | is - I'm glad you pointed it out.
        
       | justinlloyd wrote:
       | I've read "quite a few books" in my lifetime. I am not interested
       | in having a conversation about any of them. Well... maybe one or
       | two. Love Tolkien but boy did he need an editor. For the most
       | part, many of the books I read are instantly forgettable. Those
       | that aren't, I remember fragments, some bright, salient details
       | surrounded by a fog of dullness.
       | 
       | I watched John Carter the movie with my wife a while back, I know
       | I read the books and shorts many years ago, I couldn't tell you
       | anything about them other than "civil war era soldier" (I think),
       | goes to Mars, does some stuff, saves the day, gets the girl (sort
       | of). All I could think, after having read the Princess of Mars
       | story was about were the plot holes for a few days post-reading.
       | Ripping yarns. And then, after years, utterly forgotten. There
       | was a few parts in the movie where I thought "Oh, I remember that
       | from the book" and other scenes I thought "was that in the book."
       | I have no desire to go find out. For all I know I could be
       | confounding the John Carter stories with Danny Dunn.
       | 
       | I keep a spreadsheet of all the books I've read or started to
       | read. Date started, date completed. There's more started dates
       | than completed dates. Any initial thoughts. Sometimes some
       | updated thoughts a little while later. Whenever one of the books
       | comes up in conversation, I get this uneasy, vague recollection
       | that I might have read that. I usually have to check my list.
       | People want to show off how clever they are by quoting bits of
       | it, or dissecting the story - either they read and re-read books
       | for a living, or they don't read very many books, I can't decide
       | which it is.
       | 
       | If someone were to question my knowledge on a book I claim to
       | have read, I'd look incredibly suspicious. I've found, of the
       | people who have tried this gambit, that it is usually someone
       | trying to engage in a pissing contest and I'm not interested in
       | engaging in that. It also makes tops of your shoes dirty.
       | 
       | P.S. Essayist is a) gatekeeping b) showing off his "I read books"
       | Scout badge c) needs a damn editor.
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | > People want to show off how clever they are by quoting bits
         | of it, or dissecting the story - either they read and re-read
         | books for a living, or they don't read very many books, I can't
         | decide which it is.
         | 
         | That is a very uncharitable attitude: I suspect you are
         | projecting your own abilities on others.
         | 
         | Many people are just interested in books for their own sake,
         | and some people are effortlessly good at remembering and
         | quoting books.
         | 
         | I do think there are many people that use literary references
         | as part of their status signalling, and there are those that
         | pretend ignorance (maybe a working class ingroup signalling
         | they are not upper class twits). Someone quoting classical
         | Greek literature, versus the _oi polloi_ quoting page 3.
        
       | bilater wrote:
       | I see the author's point yet there are echos of the old argument
       | of 'this generation doesn't do X'. Typically those arguments
       | almost always end up being false.
       | 
       | Ultimately, we need to have a little more faith in the younger
       | generation, just like our boomer parents could have done with us.
       | I bet there were articles in the 50s & 60s freaking out about how
       | books are going to go extinct cause young people only want to
       | watch TV. And that did happen to a certain extent (readership
       | fell), but a percentage of the population kept reading good old
       | fashioned books, and that will be true going forward as well.
        
       | kixiQu wrote:
       | Is anyone else thrown by the lack of editing here? There are a
       | couple things that read oddly but might just be regional
       | wordings, but other sentences seem like they can't have passed
       | under an editor's nose. Yikes.
        
         | singlow wrote:
         | I do generally get annoyed at poorly edited articles, but I
         | didn't notice it - examples?
        
           | kixiQu wrote:
           | Okay, I'm going to give you a shotgun blast of these and a
           | good chunk of them may just be wrong. (It's my birthday, I
           | feel crotchety, so out comes the red ink) If I were close-
           | reading a text for an important purpose, here are the things
           | I'd want to bring to the author's attention:
           | 
           | * "as easily remedied" seems to be an orphaned comparison to
           | a parallel structure in an early paragraph that's been
           | removed? At least, that's the way I can make it make most
           | sense. As it stands: as easily remedied as what?
           | 
           | * "With genres such as "speculative fiction" that used to be
           | for comics and cranks now taken seriously, and made-up genres
           | like psycho-geography and ethnography sprouting all the time,
           | not to mention the world's back catalogue being available on
           | one's phone (and of course on-line titles like The Critic
           | spewing essential verbiage like a broken main into the
           | thoroughfare of discourse 24 hours a day), it is quite
           | impossible to keep up or even to tread water." A decent
           | editor doesn't let this sentence see the light of print. Even
           | setting aside the Gish gallop of off-topic contrarian dinner-
           | party remarks, you just... don't need that broken main
           | simile. In a sentence that long, you just don't have the
           | breath to spend.
           | 
           | * "maintaining well-articulated and informed opinions becomes
           | ever more demanding on our time" Well-articulated has to do
           | with writing rather than reading, and surely it's "demanding
           | of" not "demanding on"? That latter would be one I'm trying
           | to assume is a Briticism.
           | 
           | * "The diagnosis focuses on posited aromatic chemicals in ink
           | or the ominous quiet that predominates and subconsciously
           | reminds us of exam halls." "Predominates" is clear enough
           | used on its own, but in this place in the structure, it
           | almost seems like it's being applied transitively to "exam
           | halls".
           | 
           | * "Now, over ten trillion new titles[...]" "Some, we've
           | read." Not all ungrammatical conversational structures are
           | bad, but those commas are just odd in places where the
           | reading is far clearer without them. It's as if the advice
           | that in English one should read a comma aloud with a pause
           | had been taken as a bijective map...
           | 
           | * "When I mentioned the theme of this piece, for instance, my
           | daughter immediately and shamelessly confessed to having
           | recently completed an English essay on a text that she hadn't
           | even opened, based purely on the class discussion that she
           | had attended on the first day back after a week off with
           | Covid." Just split it into two sentences! It doesn't all have
           | to go in one!
           | 
           | * "I affected to look disapproving but this, I venture, may
           | well prove a more valuable skill set than the one ostensibly
           | being tested." The "this" would naturally bind to "affected
           | to look disapproving" without the object of the disapproval
           | featuring somewhere in the first independent clause.
           | 
           | * "Students have long speculated whether the York Notes
           | couldn't tell them all there was to know about Crime and
           | Punishment." I can't figure out why "couldn't" is there in
           | the negative, since "whether" normally implies both positive
           | and negative options.
           | 
           | * "Nowadays even that level of investment, financial and
           | temporal, is unnecessary." Commas don't set this off enough
           | from the rest of the sentence, so it doesn't read smoothly
           | that "financial and temporal" applies to "investment" rather
           | than "level".
           | 
           | * "one from say, the LRB or Prospect, just so you know what
           | Lefty nonsense someone is likely to spout;" Given all the
           | little asides set off with pairs of commas in this piece, how
           | was the comma between "from" and "say" missed? Similarly,
           | "There are thousands of these of course, but Amazon has"
           | seems to be missing a comma between "these" and "of".
           | 
           | * "Pair this with the first twenty pages of the book itself,
           | downloaded as a free Kindle "sample", to familiarise oneself
           | with the author's stated intentions and stylistic
           | irregularities and you are in a better place[...]" You can
           | use a general "you", and you can use "one" for the same
           | purpose, but to use both in the same sentence is sloppy as
           | hell.
           | 
           | * If they're not using the serial comma, is it normal to
           | still include a serial semicolon in the same place? Honest
           | question.
           | 
           | * "It indicates an insightful, often amusing and pithy
           | contribution -- certainly pithier than the books that now
           | emerge from the industrial bread-making approach taken by
           | modern publishing, to get a decent magazine article up to
           | 100,000 words." What are we to make of the comma after
           | "publishing"? If the "to get a [...]" chunk was meant to
           | attach to the "contribution", wouldn't the comma instead be
           | another dash? If it's meant to attach to "approach", why is
           | it there at all?
           | 
           | * "Once you've read the "Helpful" reviews, if you want to be
           | really bulletproof, scan the three- and four-stars too." This
           | is garden pathy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-
           | path_sentence) verging on ambiguously structured. Imagine you
           | read just this sentence with the "too" chopped off. You
           | wouldn't be able to tell whether "if you want to be really
           | bulletproof" applies to "[reading]" the 'Helpful' reviews" or
           | to "[scanning] the three- and four-stars too." One can
           | understand it in context and with the "too", but the sentence
           | feels clunky because the structure doesn't reflect its logic
           | clearly.
           | 
           | * "Besides, if it weren't for quotation books I doubt many of
           | us would know Ralph Waldo from Fitipaldi, Almieri dos Santos
           | or Keith." Why no comma to set off the counterfactual
           | conditional? If the piece were generally written comma-light,
           | I'd get it, but...
           | 
           | * "[...]currently struggling through -- I wonder if you have
           | already[...]" Is it a British thing to not use a semicolon in
           | this kind of construction?
           | 
           | * "Books continue to flourish as a commodity, but to other
           | purposes: as vectors of conversation, signalling and setters
           | of agenda." "To other purposes" is unnatural but obviously
           | permissible a la "to what purpose". In terms of the content,
           | when people talk about books being a commodity, they're
           | typically already contrasting that with "books are for
           | reading." Also, the sequence there is uncomfortably close to
           | a parallel structure but doesn't make it. "[...]as vectors of
           | conversation, signals of X and setters of agenda" would read
           | nicely, but you can almost get "as vectors of conversation,
           | as vectors of signalling and as vectors of setters of agenda"
           | from how the existing version parses out expanded.
           | 
           | * "Writing a book is mainly about conferring a degree of
           | status on the author, getting her invited to literary
           | festivals and onto Front Row." Said aloud it'd be fine, but
           | that "getting [...]" just hangs off the sentence.
           | 
           | * "My physical bookshelves are double stacked, with a row of
           | books who once had the shelves to themselves, now entirely
           | obscured by new arrivals, like an unwelcome development
           | spoiling their view." This sentence is structurally mushy.
           | "My Xes are Y, with a Z who A to themselves, now B by C, like
           | a D Eing their F." Even if we forgive the aroma of comma
           | splice unseen, the pronoun resolution here is a mess.
           | 
           | * "A sort of three-dimensional version of the "palimpsest"
           | that is well known to anyone who pretended to have read The
           | Name of the Rose before seeing the movie adaptation." And
           | here we give up on connecting way-too-many-clauses with
           | commas and send a subject off into the world to survive sans
           | predicate.
           | 
           | * "Meanwhile, I have some 2500 books in my kindle library,
           | the vast majority unread. My Kindle library, incidentally,
           | can be arranged in order of purchases." Even the worst
           | editors correct Brand Capitalization, and here the author
           | hasn't even bothered to match. (Also weird not to have a
           | comma in that "2500" in the style I'd assume of this kind of
           | publication, but it _might_ be a choice)
           | 
           | * "Tellingly the first download was The Complete Works of
           | Shakespeare[...]" Tellingly, I see no comma, despite many
           | other such initial adverbs in the piece being given commas...
           | 
           | Anyway, this is on the editor (or absence of editor). There's
           | very little here that I'd think the author should feel bad
           | for not catching. Writing and rewriting your own prose -
           | especially reading it aloud to yourself with the inflection
           | you intend - numbs the eyeballs to many such things.
        
           | Renevith wrote:
           | I'm not the person you replied to, but this stood out to me:
           | 
           | "And so (sorry, Orwell, but my guilt is too great to avoid
           | the passive voice) certain strategies have evolved."
           | 
           | This sentence isn't in the passive voice. ("Have been
           | evolved" would be.) I would expect a good editor to be a
           | grammar expert and catch that error.
        
             | singlow wrote:
             | Agreed, syntactically. However, it is passive in that the
             | strategies aren't actually the actors. The word _evolved_
             | has a general passive use while actually retaining the
             | active voice syntactically. The actual passive voice
             | version you gave is not normal usage. The author is the
             | actor who has developed strategies, but he is dodging the
             | responsibility by making the strategies be the subject of
             | the sentence and leaving himself out.
        
               | kixiQu wrote:
               | The "passive voice" is a term with a technical meaning in
               | grammar. "Evolved" used intransitively doesn't qualify.
               | This is the kind of thing an ordinary person mostly
               | shouldn't need to care about, but if you're going to
               | reach for the cutesy editor joke...
        
       | v4dok wrote:
       | My mother used to read a lot of books when I was young so I
       | picked it up as a hobby. I have to say that after the internet
       | came into my life, reading books has become much harder. The
       | effort is much bigger because my brain was wired to faster reward
       | cycles.
       | 
       | I continue pushing thought but I have to admit it's still hard.
       | Especially because books that worth it are hard. They are not
       | something you mindlessly consume like a movie or (in a lesser
       | degree) a theater play. I don't know how people manage to read
       | hard books when they also work on something even somewhat
       | challenging on a day to day basis.
       | 
       | So yes, faking you read a book is stupid and easily recognizable
       | to someone who actually did, but on the other hand, any way to
       | shorten the effort needed to read books is welcomed. Especially
       | when they are so many produced now with SEO-like content that
       | just waste your time.
        
       | 1sembiyan wrote:
       | A 15 year old niece told me this week that she can't be bothered
       | to read because she gets bored by the time she gets to the end of
       | the first page. "Why do that when I have TikTok and YouTube?"
       | 
       | It seems like there's going to be a generation of people who
       | don't have to pretend to read - they simply don't care to, and it
       | doesn't confer the same status TikTok fame does.
        
         | xboxnolifes wrote:
         | It was the same in the previous generation. Not reading school
         | assigned books isn't new to gen Z. People were considered way
         | more odd if they did read the books. Even more so if they said
         | they enjoyed it.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | I am fairly certain that that has held true for a majority of
         | people in the previous generation (and the ones before that),
         | too.
         | 
         | Most people don't read. This is not remotely new.
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | To be fair, reading a book and engaging in a conversation about a
       | book are two utterly different bags. And engaging in a
       | conversation about a book is often way more fun. And shifting
       | gears between the two modes is difficult. So you really can't
       | blame people for faking it.
        
         | havblue wrote:
         | I've noticed that Wheel of Time can be very fun to complain
         | about: the plot goes nowhere fast, there's too much gender war
         | dialogue, too many characters are belligerent idiots. But
         | people still read it and talk about it, passionately. So it's
         | still somehow engaging despite or maybe even because of the
         | flaws.
        
           | swayvil wrote:
           | In my age and wisdom I find that I can't get through a even a
           | quarter of what I read these days. At best. 29 times out of
           | 30.
           | 
           | I throw it aside exclaiming, "what crap!".
           | 
           | If it weren't for free blackmarket epubs I would have wasted
           | a fortune.
           | 
           | Where have all the good sci fi writers gone?
        
             | neilv wrote:
             | If there weren't black market epubs, would that be one
             | component to market forces doing their thing for high-
             | quality content?
             | 
             | Related example, on a different factor: yesterday, I paid
             | $51 for a nonfiction non-DRM .epub form of a book that was
             | also available for $27 in ereader-specific DRM form. Had I
             | instead pirated the book, that _wouldn 't_ have contributed
             | to publisher incentive to offer non-DRM form, but that
             | presumably _would 've_ contributed to the publisher wanting
             | hard DRM lockdown.
             | 
             | (Or, I suppose, might've contributed to the publisher
             | focusing on other factors than high quality, such as large
             | volume, to bring it back to the earlier question?)
        
               | swayvil wrote:
               | Here's some high-quality legal free scifi.
               | 
               | There is no antimemetics division, fine structure, etc :
               | https://qntm.org/fiction
               | 
               | Friendship is Optimal :
               | https://www.fimfiction.net/story/62074/friendship-is-
               | optimal
        
       | thenerdhead wrote:
       | I think Neil Postman hit this point in his arguments regarding
       | the death of the written culture when showbiz was born in the
       | late 1800s. The culture shifted with technology to become either
       | a prison or a burlesque.
       | 
       | With the latter idea in mind, he argues that there's no solutions
       | for these problems as most people do not believe it's a problem
       | that needs cured and secondly it's a problem unlikely to be
       | fixed, only to be innovated upon.
       | 
       | > "that [people] were laughing instead of thinking, but that they
       | did not know what they were laughing about and why they had
       | stopped thinking"
       | 
       | Books can be some of the highest quality sources of information
       | in today's age. Especially titles like Postman's who had warned
       | about these issues in the 80s building upon the work of McLuhan
       | regarding "The medium is the message" arguing that mediums are
       | not neutral and can have us ignoring the shifting landscape
       | underneath our feet by unwittingly consuming junk content.
        
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