[HN Gopher] Tips for Better Burgers (2010)
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Tips for Better Burgers (2010)
Author : Tomte
Score : 42 points
Date : 2022-08-05 09:56 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.seriouseats.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.seriouseats.com)
| nemo44x wrote:
| If you want a better burger then don't grill them. Unless you
| want old-timey dad burgers. Which I do fairly often in the
| summer. But I know it's inferior to many variety of smash burgers
| sautes in butter and tallow.
| bennysomething wrote:
| Can anyone explain how rare burgers can possibly be safe? I've
| always understood that bacteria that causes food poisoning lives
| on the surface of a steak hence rare steak is no problem. Mincing
| a steak would cause that bacteria to be through out the burger. I
| was surprised when I was in the USA and I was asked how I want my
| burger done. I love a rare steak but would never consider a rare
| burger. Maybe I'm wrong about the bacteria thing?
| snoopy_telex wrote:
| Do you eat tartare? It's not totally safe, but it's often low
| risk enough that people go for it.
|
| I generally get med-rare burgers from places that ground their
| own meats recently, so streak houses that ground the steak
| trimmings from yesterday that morning. Else I'll order medium
| and not risk it, but everyone's risk profile is different.
| elbigbad wrote:
| You're not wrong, but its the difference between restaurant
| rare and home rare. Restaurant rare typically comes from a
| giant pile of meat, many pounds mixed into a large recipe and
| then divvied out into patties to be cooked to order. This gives
| a significantly higher chance of getting bad bacteria, though
| still not particularly high chances from any given batch.
|
| Cooking at home one is typically using a significantly smaller
| amount of ground beef from a smaller batch, so lower chances
| overall of some bacteria from one package of beef being
| distributed across a large number of burgers.
|
| Additionally most bacteria that gets onto food prepared in
| reasonably clean environments doesn't do much more than cause
| an upset stomach.
|
| There's liability at restaurants on the above for the reasons
| you mentioned, where those same liabilities don't exist for
| steaks as highly. At home, all bets are off on liability from
| being undercooked.
|
| Still though I wouldn't eat rare burgers at home.
| googlryas wrote:
| Isn't that only true if you ground your own beef? I assume
| supermarket ground beef is ground in batches of hundreds of
| lbs
| SoftTalker wrote:
| It is, but they are probably more careful about cleaning
| the equipment than the typical restaurant.
|
| When I'm at my supermarket meat counter near closing time,
| they are washing everything -- equipment, countertops,
| walls, floors with hot soapy water, brushes, and a hose.
| Everything goes down the floor drain.
|
| When I worked in restaurants, equipment was mostly cleaned
| with rags and a bucket.
| marak830 wrote:
| More food poisoning occurs at home, than at restaurants.
|
| I don't know what 'restaurant' you were at that used rags
| and buckets, but it certainly would have failed health
| and safety regulations.
|
| Source, 15 years as a chef.
| advisedwang wrote:
| IT's not 100% safe. Neither are oysters [1] or soft-boiled eggs
| [2]. But if you have it once in a while and no other health
| factors it might well be worth the risk.
|
| [1] https://www.cdc.gov/vibrio/vibrio-oysters.html
|
| [2] https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/salmonella-
| and-...
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| How about if you sear a large cut of beef to kill the surface
| bacteria, then immediately slice off (with a sterilized knife)
| and grind (with a sterilized grinder) enough for tartare or a
| rare burger? I'd eat that! Do any restaurants do that?
| [deleted]
| adrianmonk wrote:
| I don't know if restaurants use it, but irradiated ground beef
| is a thing[1]. It has been offered by Wegman's supermarkets[2]
| and Omaha Steaks[3].
|
| Omaha Steaks says they use it (only) for ground beef because,
| "Unlike solid cuts of meat, the potential exists that surface
| bacteria may have been mixed within ground beef."
|
| Wegmans has a cooking temperature page[4] that gives lower
| temperatures for irradiated ground beef than for regular ground
| beef.
|
| So that's one way safe + rare is possible.
|
| Another way is sous vide. It's a "low and slow" cooking
| technique, and germ-killing is a function of both time and
| temperature[5], so it can achieve safe + rare. It's definitely
| more trouble to cook your burgers for 1-2 hours, though.
|
| ---
|
| [1] https://ccr.ucdavis.edu/food-irradiation/are-irradiated-
| food...
|
| [2] https://www.supermarketnews.com/archive/wegmans-offers-
| own-i...
|
| [3] https://www.omahasteaks.com/servlet/OnlineShopping?Dsp=5707
|
| [4] https://www.wegmans.com/final-cook-to-temperature-charts/
|
| [5] https://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Safety
| [deleted]
| dwringer wrote:
| Ha, I fully appreciate never going past medium on a fine cut of
| steak but most hamburger meat I encounter is a far cry from
| being a fine cut. At most restaurants around here when I order
| a burger that rare I end up regretting it.
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| I thought the issue with rare/cooked-through burgers is that
| grinding distributes surface bacteria throughout the mass and
| it all needs to get hot enough, whereas on primal and sub-
| primal cuts you're safely cooking the bacteria that's on the
| surfaces.
| smm11 wrote:
| I eat a pound of ground whatever three or four times a week, be
| it elk, wild boar, venison, and sometimes 'burger.'
|
| Always ground. I can incorporate other things to make it be
| whatever I want, and there's no issue with rare-not rare.
| Outright burgers aren't worth the hassle to me. Anyway, I
| couldn't eat a 1 pound burger most days, but have no issue with
| ground for some reason.
| imstate wrote:
| You definitely don't want to flip a burger multiple times. There
| is a drastic difference in quality. They advocate it cooks the
| middle more, but the real trick is to move the burger to the side
| of grill that is off and close the lid to cook it like an oven.
|
| It's a rule in many kitchens I've been in to only flip once,
| because you don't want to lose the juices from the fat.
| tashoecraft wrote:
| It's really comically how many people here, including yourself,
| are just assuming they know more than then author. Kenji has
| done numerous studies debunking this and has dug into every
| single part of the burger making process and so much more to
| come up with these steps.
|
| Flipping your burger less doesn't help. Yes, the salt level is
| correct. Yes, putting the grinder in the freezer is a good
| idea. Stop assuming you know more than experts without
| conducting studies your self, you arrogant people.
| fknorangesite wrote:
| > It's really comically how many people here, including
| yourself, are just assuming they know more than then author.
|
| Surely not _here_ - on _Hacker News_? I 'm shocked! Shocked!
| Tomte wrote:
| Kenji has done lots of testing about this, and his result was:
| flipping doesn't matter. I tend to trust him over old kitchen
| myths, although I cannot prove he's right.
| antisthenes wrote:
| It also doesn't matter because you're usually eating a burger
| with some kind of condiment or side.
|
| Whether it's a mushroom/egg/tomato, coleslaw on the side,
| ketchup, tzatziki (lamb burger) or something else, most
| burgers will have juices enough to not make them dry.
|
| You also might not want to eat 100% of the rendered fat from
| a burger. Some fat is good, but it's still a very high-
| calorie substance.
| luckydata wrote:
| this is just an old tale, testing shows it doesn't matter
| snoopy_telex wrote:
| So they dug into the science a fair bit in
| https://www.seriouseats.com/the-burger-lab-how-many-times-sh...
| and concluded it really doesn't impact the quality at all.
|
| Is there something specific that you feel they failed to do
| correctly in their process?
| flint wrote:
| Kenji Lopez-Alt has a great YouTube cooking channel.
| SeanLuke wrote:
| Yes and no. Yes, he does a great run-though of a variety of
| dishes. No, in that he has the camera affixed to his head or
| hand and bouncing around and the result is highly vertigo-
| inducing. Is the informative nature of a food channel worth the
| intense nausea caused from watching it?
| bvisness wrote:
| I love the POV style, especially paired with the lack of
| cuts. Gives me a better sense of everything he's doing in the
| kitchen - when else would you see how he keeps his fridge or
| spice cabinet organized?
| tpmx wrote:
| In that odd food politics genre. I'm a centrist by US
| standards, but he pushed my buttons hard enough to unsub after
| a year.
| aerostable_slug wrote:
| When he refused to call kaffir lime by its widely accepted
| name because it might potentially offend someone, I had about
| enough. What silliness, especially when the etymology of the
| term remains undecided.
|
| Are we also going to stop called puttanesca dishes by their
| name because sex workers might be offended because it
| includes a profane term? Can we finally say _enough_ to the
| constant quest for purity typified by a food critic penning a
| column on what words she won 't use?[0] She won't even write
| "guilty" because that might trigger someone, even though I
| think nearly anyone would agree that an Animal Style 3x3 from
| In-N-Out is indeed a guilty pleasure.
|
| I just want to cook and eat good food, not play these kinds
| of nonsense games that cater to a certain rather noisy (and
| politically homogeneous) audience.
|
| [0]: "The trouble comes from the fact that the word is a
| cognate for a slur used by white colonists to refer to Black
| Africans in South Africa. Though the spirit of the word
| likely has very little to do with the latter context, my
| reasoning is the same as the reason why you're never going to
| catch me casually saying or writing the word "niggardly.""
| https://www.sfchronicle.com/restaurants/article/Words-you-
| ll...
| [deleted]
| throw7 wrote:
| I don't mind politics, but I couldn't take it. The guy
| clearly knows the answer to everything.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| There's basically two tips here. The first is to throw money at
| the problem, nice beef, nice bun, etc, etc and the second is to
| actually season your burger.
|
| Cooking a burger isn't rocket science. All the typical tips and
| tricks that you'd apply to most other beef dishes apply to it.
| But slaving over a fucking burger kinda defeats the point. It's a
| dish that's very tolerant of loose cooking procedure and you'd be
| a fool to not take advantage of that.
|
| If your burgers aren't coming out how you want try cooking them
| slower or making them much thinner.
| fknorangesite wrote:
| > But slaving over a fucking burger kinda defeats the point.
|
| I enjoy putting effort into my food. Not _always every time_ ,
| but when I want to, I want to know how.
|
| I'm not sure why you would denigrate that.
| mason55 wrote:
| > _But slaving over a fucking burger kinda defeats the point.
| It 's a dish that's very tolerant of loose cooking procedure
| and you'd be a fool to not take advantage of that._
|
| Sure but that doesn't mean that it's not worth talking about
| complete optimization. If you know the absolute best technique
| then you can decide which parts are worth the extra time for
| you. Or sometimes you feel like a burger and you have a lot of
| time, so it's worth knowing the optimal way to do it all.
|
| I think of it more like... a bad burger is still good, but that
| doesn't mean it can't be better.
| richiebful1 wrote:
| I grew up eating meatloaf style burgers with a bunch of stuff -
| onions, mustard and seasoning - stirred through the ground
| beef. Learning to just season the outside was a game changer. I
| never really cared for homemade burgers before then. But that
| tip makes the burgers less effort not more.
| yuy910616 wrote:
| I remember watching the new Top Gun and thinking it is basically
| a burger: there is the craft (making movies or making food), but
| sometimes, craft matters very little and it's more not messing up
| the ingredients (beef and jets).
|
| Overall, 10/10 American.
| snarfy wrote:
| How are you supposed to bite that burger in the picture without
| unhinging your jaw?
|
| Big burgers should be wider, not taller.
| throwaway287391 wrote:
| Yes. I've totally bought into the smash burgers meme and
| they've never let me down once. I'm also a pretty terrible cook
| and don't follow the instructions too closely (e.g. I smash
| them before putting them into the frying pan since I don't have
| a big/flat enough pan). Delicious every time.
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| A hamburger sandwich is vertically compressible - you press it
| to fit using your hands.
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| But then the bread is no longer airy.
| fknorangesite wrote:
| It turns out there are different styles of burger. Who knew,
| right? And surprise they picked the photogenic one for the
| banner.
|
| Here's the beauty of reading an article on cooking, and
| subsequently of cooking for yourself: you can take what you
| learned and then make your burger however you like. And how you
| like your burger might not be how someone else likes theirs.
| savoytruffle wrote:
| I agree! I was recently musing with a relative that the short-
| lived large-single-patty Big Mac a couple years ago was more
| appealing to me than the typical version. She mentioned reading
| that it may be coming back?
|
| But at that point maybe just get a Whopper from Burger King, or
| almost anything else.
| OJFord wrote:
| You can recover a mm or two by removing that grim plastic non-
| cheese, for a start.
| tekla wrote:
| American Cheese is normal cheese.
|
| All cheeses are polymers though, so I guess it is somewhat
| accurate to call all cheese plastic
| fknorangesite wrote:
| I'm not American, but even I know American Cheese is
| perfectly normal cheese.
|
| It's not, like, a Kraft(tm) Single(tm) or whatever.
| aj7 wrote:
| No that's the best part.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| If you are cooking your burger in a skillet or a flat top, you
| want a 70/30 ratio, not 80/20. A 70/30 ratio increases the fat
| content enough that the grease released from the burger will
| essentially fry the burger in its own fat instead of steaming it
| in the pan.
|
| I also do not fully agree with their idea of not salting the meat
| at all before forming the patties. I do not want a hamburger with
| the consistency of meat loaf. I want a bite to it. It's a burger,
| not a steak. The meat matters, but the bun and condiments matter
| just as much.
| amdelamar wrote:
| The amount of salt in photo #6 is too much salt. Its very easy to
| over-salt anything and ruin it. Better to under-salt until you
| gain enough experience with judging how much you actually need.
|
| As for putting the meat grinder in the freezer, I'd like to know
| if restaurants do that or not. Because I highly doubt it. Seems
| very silly.
| fknorangesite wrote:
| > Seems very silly.
|
| It is not, for all the reasons listed. You get much better
| texture when everything is cold, because you are actually
| grinding/cutting the meat, rather than squeezing and smearing
| it.
| julianlam wrote:
| Why not? If anything, it's less impractical, if only because
| restaurants usually have large walk-in freezers.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| > The amount of salt in photo #6 is too much salt.
|
| Except that's not true. It's perfectly seasoned. Whenever you
| cook meat, especially if you're grilling it, you need to season
| well because half of your seasoning isn't going to remain on
| the meat.
| antisthenes wrote:
| That is:
|
| 1. Only true if there's copious amounts of oil to absorb the
| seasoning. Otherwise it might get absorbed by the rendered
| fat of the burger. Sometimes 50% or more of it gets lost,
| sometimes less.
|
| 2. It is better to underseason than overseason. If you
| overseason, you end up with an inedible salt mess. If you
| underseason, all it takes is a quick sprinkle before you eat
| it.
|
| That being said, I think the picture in #6 looks perfectly
| fine. I'd use a dash more of pepper though.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| I honestly don't understand seasoning a burger with pepper
| before grilling. By the time you're done, most of the
| flavor has been obliterated by the heat.
| [deleted]
| zbentley wrote:
| Just one anecdotal data point, but when I worked in a kitchen a
| very long time ago we would wheel the meat grinder and it's
| attached table into the walk-in in between uses, after
| cleaning. We only used it a few times a day so this was no
| great chore.
| matthewmacleod wrote:
| I'd argue that is quite under-salted - in my experience, beef
| in particular needs more salt than you'd perhaps expect!
|
| I'd lose the pepper though. Each to their own, but I find that
| peppering just results in a burger that tastes of burned
| pepper.
| bvisness wrote:
| In a video on Kenji's YouTube channel, he and his sous chef at
| Wursthall went through their sausage-making process, and they
| talked about how when they grind meat for sausages, they make
| sure the grinder parts and plates are in the freezer for at
| least an hour before grinding. (The video is entitled "Let Me
| Show You Erik's Sausage Room", at about 7:45.)
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