[HN Gopher] Hitachi Wood Plug Cutter Works Perfectly in Hand Hel...
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       Hitachi Wood Plug Cutter Works Perfectly in Hand Held Drills (2013)
        
       Author : walterbell
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2022-07-31 11:50 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (paulsellers.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (paulsellers.com)
        
       | pigtailgirl wrote:
       | -- never cared about woodwork till discovering Blacktail Studio
       | on youtube - now all I want to do is make tables - highly
       | recommend - especially if you give zero f's about woodworking --
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/c/BlacktailStudio/videos
        
         | zo1 wrote:
         | My favorite that imparts a lot of knowledge and insight in a
         | high density format is Stumpy Nubs.
         | 
         | https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCstwpLSByklww1YojZN-KiQ
        
         | enlyth wrote:
         | Wish I had space to do something like this, here in the UK
         | houses are tiny compared to most of the developed world, and
         | having some kind of garage is basically a luxury
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | On the bright side: you don't have to keep it clean.
        
           | 542458 wrote:
           | For what it's worth - you can have a lot of fun with a small
           | budget wood lathe and not a lot of space. Pens, small bowls
           | and plates, chess pieces... it's not as spectacular as big
           | slab tables, but it captures the same "show off beautiful
           | figured wood and nice finishes" bit and it's cheaper and less
           | space intense. If you are really pressed for space, a small
           | lathe is usually small enough that you could carry it outside
           | when you wanted to turn something (you'd need something to
           | clamp it to outside of course). Or you could have a shed
           | setup - that's pretty common.
           | 
           | Some parts of the UK have real turning communities or guilds
           | still, and they may offer courses or use of much nicer lathes
           | there.
        
         | mcronce wrote:
         | I had the same experience. If you want to branch out, Tyrell
         | Knifeworks - https://www.youtube.com/c/tyrellknifeworks - gave
         | me a similar experience with knife forging/construction
        
         | nipponese wrote:
         | Try Ishitani Furniture. Similar satisfying flow but without the
         | voiceover.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/x51zMg7roIs
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Yep, beautiful stuff. Definitely my favorite woodworker on
           | YouTube so far.
           | 
           | I think his style is more mine. The epoxy "river tables" and
           | all the live-edge stuff that is trendy puts me off of other
           | the YouTubers. (Never mind all the Festool marketing that
           | goes on.)
        
             | eropple wrote:
             | The river table stuff is largely dead, from my perspective.
             | It's a neat gimmick but it's run its course. I haven't seen
             | somebody talk about one, or seen a new one on YouTube, for
             | months. Maybe longer?
             | 
             | And, FWIW, Festool only sponsors a couple of woodworkers
             | and very rarely gives tools to others for marketing
             | purposes. You see a lot of Festool (and Fein and Mirka)
             | because it's worth it if you're serious. They _feel good_
             | to use; the Domino is a joy to use and their ETS sanders
             | are way less punishing on my hands than the alternatives.
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | Festool's Domino system is the one product I cannot find
               | a cheaper alternative (too pricey for me though, so
               | sticking with my biscuit joiner).
               | 
               | I'm very happy with my Makita track saw though that,
               | while still pricey, was maybe 1/3 the cost of the
               | Festool?
        
               | eropple wrote:
               | I have a Makita track saw, and it's great. (I joke that
               | using it on my MFT probably has me banned from at least
               | one Central European country.) It absolutely wasn't a
               | third of the price of a Festool, though. More like $500
               | versus $600 at the time--the spread's a bit more now. I
               | use cheap Wen tracks that are compatible with both, so
               | track prices are a bit of a wash.
               | 
               | The track saw (or like, a drill/driver, but that's a bit
               | jokey) is probably the one place where Festool has the
               | _least_ delta, IMO. The Domino, their sanders, and their
               | dust extractors are genuinely a cut above, and while my
               | shop is outgrowing the basic MFT that they sell, it 's
               | mostly to build my own, bigger, more rugged one.
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | I see you're closer to the prices of Makita vs. Festool.
               | I was under the impression the Festool track saw was
               | closer to $1K a few years back when I got my Makita (and
               | that the Makita was closer to $350). I could be mistaken
               | though.
        
               | hyperbovine wrote:
               | Dowelmax is 1/4 the cost and makes a stronger joint.
               | (https://vimeo.com/339631122) Woodworking metamorphosed
               | at some point from "basic life skill" to "rich old guy
               | money sport". Festool exploits the latter market
               | masterfully.
        
               | mauvehaus wrote:
               | I'm sorry, but you're just wrong about who uses Festool
               | tools. Yeah, some people with a boatload of money buy it
               | because it's the most expensive tool.
               | 
               | You primarily see their tools in the hands of pros,
               | because their tools are, in many cases, better than the
               | alternatives. The value prop on the Domino isn't that
               | it's the strongest joint, it's that it's strong enough
               | for the application, fast, and repeatable. When you build
               | furniture for money, that matters. You don't have to
               | build too many frame and panel assemblies to make it pay
               | for itself.
               | 
               | The dust collection on their sanders is outstanding. I
               | don't do site work that involves sanding, but if I did,
               | you'd better believe that I'd make that investment in a
               | heartbeat. Not getting fine sanding dust all over your
               | client's space is worth every penny of the cost.
        
               | eropple wrote:
               | For me, dust collection on sanders was really nice but it
               | really was how much _less_ of a beating on my hands that
               | the ETS dishes out. I went from a DeWalt to a Bosch, and
               | the Bosch was somewhat better (and actually had excellent
               | dust collection on its own when using a sanding mesh) but
               | the Festool ETS125 is _so_ much more comfortable. If I
               | didn 't have the money to upgrade the Bosch would be
               | fine, but I do, and if I did this professionally I would
               | absolutely _find_ the money for my own health.
        
               | moistly wrote:
               | Dominos aren't about strength so much as accuracy. The
               | tool makes it dead easy to align edges with faces near
               | seamlessly and squarely. It's a helluva improvement on
               | biscuits or dowels.
        
               | mauvehaus wrote:
               | If you think the Domino is expensive, you should look at
               | the Lamello biscuit joiners. While seated.
               | 
               | They are also head and shoulders above any other biscuit
               | joiner I've used. At the price, they should be. I don't
               | own one, but I have used one in another shop.
        
               | joe_guy wrote:
               | The featool domino is patented until 2024 unfortunately.
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | That's not far off, actually. Thanks.
        
               | Wistar wrote:
               | Coincidentally, just last night I watched this video from
               | Stumpy Nubs showing how to create loose tenon joinery
               | without the Domino. Of course, it does have some
               | complexities, and assumes you have a table saw and plunge
               | router.
               | 
               | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx1Mg2mTMO0
        
               | akiselev wrote:
               | I have the Festool Domino XL [1] and IMO router jigs like
               | in that video are only superficially equivalent. The real
               | benefit of the Domino is how it indexes cuts against
               | edges using the mortise spacer tabs/accessories and the
               | 0-90 degree fence, height adjusted using precise stops.
               | It makes "measure twice, cut once" much smoother and
               | setup is so fast that it's become my default method of
               | joinery for anything where aesthetics matters. I
               | sometimes use a single Domino jig for small parts [2] and
               | clamped scrap wood spacers for awkward cuts, but the rest
               | of the time I just use the built-in Domino functions and
               | the included spacer accessory (which extends the length
               | of the tabs to 200mm).
               | 
               | It's hard to describe just how much more useful the tool
               | is compared to router jigs, pocket holes, etc. It changed
               | how I design my work, how I prepare rough stock and cut
               | it to final size, and how I work with wood movement.
               | 
               | [1] though I have the Seneca adapters and all that, I
               | wish I had gotten the smaller one. Unless you're doing
               | serious structural joinery the smaller Domino is much
               | more convenient, and you can double up on tenons instead
               | of reaching for a bigger one in most cases anyway.
               | 
               | [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3JGfjUGbM
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | I assume you are suggesting the Festool Domino DF 500
               | (the smaller one)?
               | 
               | I'll add it to my "Wish List", haha.
        
               | akiselev wrote:
               | Correct. Getting the bigger one is probably one of the
               | worst decisions I've made in setting up my shop but at
               | the time Festool wasn't expecting any more to come out of
               | their factories for at least a quarter. It's more
               | expensive than the 300 pound bandsaw and more awkward to
               | use in most cases than the smaller domino. It was great
               | retail therapy in the first year of the pandemic though.
               | 
               | You'll know it if you _need_ the larger domino, like if
               | you're selling a few heirloom quality beds a week for
               | four or five figure sums, and then the expense will most
               | likely be an afterthought.
        
               | eropple wrote:
               | I really like my DF500, and I'm inclined to agree with
               | you about it being better overall now that you can use
               | Domino Connect pieces with it. (If you're unfamiliar with
               | the Domino Connect stuff--it makes it _way_ easier to
               | make a gift or something you have to ship. DIY flatpack,
               | but way way nicer.)
        
               | Wistar wrote:
               | To be clear, I'm not advocating for the work-around. To
               | my eye, given the complexities of the work-around, and
               | the fact I have no table saw, I'm pretty sure I'd go with
               | the Domino. Besides, my Festool Kapex is a pure marvel
               | that has made me a Festool fan.
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | A buddy of mine builds custom arcade machines
               | @arcadeArmy.com - He is currently doing a "river" table
               | epoxy build cabinet.
               | 
               | his machines are beautiful and amazing - and he can make
               | any game cabinet you like.
        
             | chrisdhoover wrote:
             | Live edge is bad but also funny because it is decidedly
             | dead.
             | 
             | River tables are a fad where future people will wonder what
             | were they thinking
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Can one make a decent income with woodworking?
        
           | pigtailgirl wrote:
           | -- would imagine the wood working tools are not cheap to
           | build up a collection of - and the time commitment seems high
           | - however the dude I linked on youtube seems to sell some
           | stuff for USD $10/15k - his recent table cost him a little
           | over a grand in wood and is currently on ebay for US
           | $4,850.00* - according to the website of his wood supplier -
           | the wood he selected for his recent table is the most
           | expensive wood they have** --
           | 
           | ** https://hamiltonleesupply.com/collections/liveedge-slabs-1
           | 
           | * https://www.ebay.com/itm/195247776682
        
           | cricalix wrote:
           | Some people do, some don't.
           | 
           | Even as a background listen, Shop Talk Live is pretty good -
           | and they've covered the "make money from it" before.
           | https://www.finewoodworking.com/blog/shop-talk-live
        
           | cperciva wrote:
           | Definitely as a luthier -- a violin made by a skilled luthier
           | (not "top of the profession", but "a decade or more of
           | experience doing this full time") is typically in the $10-40k
           | range and if they're not doing repairs (which can also be
           | lucrative) a luthier working full time hours can make 8-16
           | good quality violins per year.
           | 
           | Of course there's a bunch of expenses to be accounted for,
           | but it's definitely still in the category of "six figure
           | income if you're good".
        
             | ska wrote:
             | That's a pretty narrow specialty, and suspect it's not the
             | kind of thing you easily jump to from general woodworking
             | skills.
        
               | cperciva wrote:
               | Agreed that it's a narrow specialty. I think being a
               | skilled (and careful!) woodworker is the primary
               | prerequisite though; many luthiers have little or no
               | musical talent (which may go partway to explaining why
               | instruments are valued more on the quality of workmanship
               | than the quality of sound they produce).
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | spenczar5 wrote:
           | Finish carpentry is woodworking, and there are pretty good
           | opportunities there.
           | 
           | Furniture making is a tough way to make a living; factories
           | are very good at furniture so you need to find customers with
           | a lot of willingness to spend. Even at $25/hr for labor, a
           | table and set of 4 chairs will end up around $5-10k easily.
           | There just aren't that many people who spend that much.
           | 
           | (I am a finish carpenter and sometimes furniture maker)
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | skywal_l wrote:
         | Carl Rogers rebuilding a house in SW France is also pretty
         | interesting even it the techniques he used are sometime
         | unconventional: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K75pQ2HxRgM
        
         | mgdlbp wrote:
         | Matthias Wandel might interest you, woodworking with the hacker
         | spirit (including making his own tools...out of wood)
         | 
         | https://woodgears.ca
        
           | staindk wrote:
           | FWIW AFAIK Matthias is an engineer who used to work at RIM
           | (BlackBerry). His videos about woodworking and everything
           | else are great yeah.
        
       | jagtesh wrote:
       | Last thing I expected to discover on HN. This is incredibly
       | useful for any DIYer. Thanks OP!
       | 
       | Edit: Usually I refrain from thank you posts on HN but I had to
       | make an exception owing to the unique nature of this post.
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | Hack All The Things!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | neogodless wrote:
       | The included hyperlink to the product discussed did not work. I
       | suspect it was something like this:
       | 
       | https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hitachi-3-8-in-Plug-Cutter/3056069
       | (discontinued)
       | 
       | None of these match (have the 4 cutting teeth and the center),
       | they either have two teeth with the center or 4 teeth without.
       | 
       | https://www.woodcraft.com/categories/plug-cutters
       | 
       | Wonder how these other ones hold up to hand drilling.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | I've hand drilled hundreds with a non centering plug cutter. It
         | works fine. You make the plugs long anyway so tear out at the
         | beginning isn't an issue. With a tapered cutter the starting
         | surface is going into the hole so it doesn't have to look good
         | either. The main tedium is when they get dull it becomes a bear
         | to force them into the wood.
        
         | jmuhlich wrote:
         | I've used those Snappy brand cutters in a handheld cordless
         | drill. It's workable but tricky. You need to start with light
         | pressure and high speed until the cutters score a clean circle,
         | then gradually increase the pressure. The workpiece absolutely
         | needs to be clamped down with zero movement, and it helps if
         | you can find a way to brace your upper body and the drill as
         | you work. The trickiest part is keeping the cutter perfectly
         | square to the work in both axes --- if you tip it too far
         | you're likely to shatter the cutter as the metal is very
         | brittle.
        
         | ricardobeat wrote:
         | The comments in the post say it's been discontinued, but I was
         | able to find similar bits by other brands, searching for "self-
         | centering plug cutter".
        
       | CrankyCanuck wrote:
       | Plug cutters, especially those that cut a tapered plug are an
       | interesting exercise in patent shenanigans. As mentioned in this
       | thread, a tapered plug is almost always superior than a straight
       | sided one...the wedge action as the plug is driven down results
       | in a very snug fit. Lee Valley Tools has a patented Snug Plug
       | cutter. As you might imagine, it's been ripped off by many
       | manufacturers. Lest you thing a tapered plug was patented...be
       | aware it's not. The tool design itself is. In the case of the Lee
       | Valley cutter, it has 4 "legs" that outline and then shear the
       | sides off the plug. A quick patent search on "tapered plug
       | cutter" will illustrate many designs...all patented, and
       | resulting in a tapered plug. The idea is to copy the result of
       | the product, and not the product itself. I will say the Lee
       | Valley Snug plug cutters work very well. While you can use them
       | hand held, they (like any similar cutter) will function far
       | better in a drill press.
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | The Lee Valley cutters are excellent, but max out around 1/2"
         | depth. Any recommended wood plug cutters for deep (1" - 2")
         | plugs?
         | 
         | Are the Lee Valley cutters related to the Fuller ones,
         | https://wlfuller.com/html/plug_cutters.html &
         | https://wlfuller.com/html/about.html?
         | 
         |  _> During the late 1950 's, Warren Jr. renovated the
         | countersink design -- a change that is extensively used today.
         | Originally the flutes of the countersink were straight in
         | design. In the new model the flutes are slightly slanted. This
         | modified the tool from a scraper to a cutter. The design
         | allowed the wood chips to clear, preventing clogging._
        
       | mauvehaus wrote:
       | If you're actually plugging holes with the plugs you make, the
       | other thing to look for is a plug cutter that cuts a slightly
       | tapered plug. The taper ensures that the plug will fill the hole
       | even if it's drilled slightly undersized or (more commonly)
       | slightly oversized. Beware that if you're driving a tapered plug
       | into a hole near the edge of a board, you can split the board.
       | Now you have two problems, as they say.
       | 
       | What other use would a plug cutter have besides cutting plugs for
       | filling holes? Cutting cylindrical tenons. For that application,
       | you'd want one that cuts straight-sided plugs. Unless you're
       | cutting tapered mortises too, of course, in which case you want
       | the tapers to match.
       | 
       | It turns out that you can also use plug cutters without the
       | center spur in a handheld drill to cut cylindrical tenons _if_
       | you taper the end of the stick so that the plug cutter rides the
       | taper onto the end of the stick. I wouldn 't try this with a
       | cutter with four spurs, but the single spur ones apparently do
       | quite well:
       | 
       | https://blog.lostartpress.com/2022/02/24/chairmaking-on-the-...
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | For plugs intended as load-bearing screw anchors to replace
         | damaged wood, should they be fastened to the surrounding wood
         | by:                 1. friction: tapered snug fit, expanding
         | with screw       2. glue: non-tapered, small cylindrical
         | plug<->hole gap for glue/epoxy       3. both: tapered snug fit
         | + grooves for glue/epoxy
        
         | mbrameld wrote:
         | I don't know if you read it or not but the article also
         | emphasizes that this cutter cuts a tapered plug.
        
       | scooble wrote:
       | At a pinch, drilling a hole the external diameter of the plug
       | cutter and clamping that to the board you are getting the plug
       | out of can act as a guide so the plug cutter doesn't spiral out
       | and cut a hole in the wooden stairs you are using as an impromptu
       | bench (for example).
        
         | peteradio wrote:
         | Or the foot acting as an impromptu clamp (for example).
        
       | caned wrote:
       | Just want to make a plug for Paul Sellers. His YouTube videos on
       | woodworking with handheld tools have kept me captivated for
       | years. Through watching his videos, I learned how to cut mortise
       | and tenon, dovetail, and dado joints without touching a powered
       | tool. A weekend hobbyist woodworker, the pleasure I get from
       | truly crafting by hand is immense. Paul is a heavyweight, and he
       | shares what he knows without holding back.
        
         | jameshart wrote:
         | > Just want to make a plug for Paul Sellers
         | 
         | Apparently you can use a Hitachi plug cutter to do that.
        
         | itsananderson wrote:
         | +1 https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulSellersWoodwork
         | 
         | I started watching his videos about 10 years ago, and while
         | I've shifted a bit toward using more power tools in recent
         | years, I still use his foundational hand tool techniques all
         | the time. He can be a _little_ preachy about his  "hand tool
         | only" woodworking philosophy, especially on his blog. If you
         | can overlook that, he has a ton of skill and is good at
         | teaching and demonstrating that skill to others through his
         | videos.
        
       | gorgoiler wrote:
       | I have a set of Montana plug cutters, also designed for hand
       | drill use: https://www.montanabrandtools.com/collections/plug-
       | cutters/p...
       | 
       | A fun game to play, when cutting plugs in bulk, is to see how
       | many you can cut before one breaks off and jams up the cutter.
       | This is a bad thing because you have to break your flow and spend
       | a non zero amount of time chipping the jammed plug out of the
       | mechanism.
       | 
       | I can do at least five before it goes wrong and I have to stop
       | and get out a chisel to clear the jaws. Oh, for a drill press!
        
       | megraf wrote:
       | I've made plugs with a hole saw that turned out pretty OK. I
       | drilled out the knot with a hole saw and made the plug by
       | removing the center drill after getting about 20% through the
       | plug board.
       | 
       | I used a slightly larger saw for creating the plug and then
       | sanded the difference (after marking the plug with a set of
       | calipers) on a belt sanding jig, which allowed me to essentially
       | turn the plug.
       | 
       | The end result wasn't as good as Paul's, but it allowed me to get
       | the job done.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-31 23:00 UTC)