[HN Gopher] Hitachi Wood Plug Cutter Works Perfectly in Hand Hel...
___________________________________________________________________
Hitachi Wood Plug Cutter Works Perfectly in Hand Held Drills (2013)
Author : walterbell
Score : 115 points
Date : 2022-07-31 11:50 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (paulsellers.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (paulsellers.com)
| pigtailgirl wrote:
| -- never cared about woodwork till discovering Blacktail Studio
| on youtube - now all I want to do is make tables - highly
| recommend - especially if you give zero f's about woodworking --
|
| https://www.youtube.com/c/BlacktailStudio/videos
| zo1 wrote:
| My favorite that imparts a lot of knowledge and insight in a
| high density format is Stumpy Nubs.
|
| https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCstwpLSByklww1YojZN-KiQ
| enlyth wrote:
| Wish I had space to do something like this, here in the UK
| houses are tiny compared to most of the developed world, and
| having some kind of garage is basically a luxury
| amelius wrote:
| On the bright side: you don't have to keep it clean.
| 542458 wrote:
| For what it's worth - you can have a lot of fun with a small
| budget wood lathe and not a lot of space. Pens, small bowls
| and plates, chess pieces... it's not as spectacular as big
| slab tables, but it captures the same "show off beautiful
| figured wood and nice finishes" bit and it's cheaper and less
| space intense. If you are really pressed for space, a small
| lathe is usually small enough that you could carry it outside
| when you wanted to turn something (you'd need something to
| clamp it to outside of course). Or you could have a shed
| setup - that's pretty common.
|
| Some parts of the UK have real turning communities or guilds
| still, and they may offer courses or use of much nicer lathes
| there.
| mcronce wrote:
| I had the same experience. If you want to branch out, Tyrell
| Knifeworks - https://www.youtube.com/c/tyrellknifeworks - gave
| me a similar experience with knife forging/construction
| nipponese wrote:
| Try Ishitani Furniture. Similar satisfying flow but without the
| voiceover.
|
| https://youtu.be/x51zMg7roIs
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Yep, beautiful stuff. Definitely my favorite woodworker on
| YouTube so far.
|
| I think his style is more mine. The epoxy "river tables" and
| all the live-edge stuff that is trendy puts me off of other
| the YouTubers. (Never mind all the Festool marketing that
| goes on.)
| eropple wrote:
| The river table stuff is largely dead, from my perspective.
| It's a neat gimmick but it's run its course. I haven't seen
| somebody talk about one, or seen a new one on YouTube, for
| months. Maybe longer?
|
| And, FWIW, Festool only sponsors a couple of woodworkers
| and very rarely gives tools to others for marketing
| purposes. You see a lot of Festool (and Fein and Mirka)
| because it's worth it if you're serious. They _feel good_
| to use; the Domino is a joy to use and their ETS sanders
| are way less punishing on my hands than the alternatives.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Festool's Domino system is the one product I cannot find
| a cheaper alternative (too pricey for me though, so
| sticking with my biscuit joiner).
|
| I'm very happy with my Makita track saw though that,
| while still pricey, was maybe 1/3 the cost of the
| Festool?
| eropple wrote:
| I have a Makita track saw, and it's great. (I joke that
| using it on my MFT probably has me banned from at least
| one Central European country.) It absolutely wasn't a
| third of the price of a Festool, though. More like $500
| versus $600 at the time--the spread's a bit more now. I
| use cheap Wen tracks that are compatible with both, so
| track prices are a bit of a wash.
|
| The track saw (or like, a drill/driver, but that's a bit
| jokey) is probably the one place where Festool has the
| _least_ delta, IMO. The Domino, their sanders, and their
| dust extractors are genuinely a cut above, and while my
| shop is outgrowing the basic MFT that they sell, it 's
| mostly to build my own, bigger, more rugged one.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I see you're closer to the prices of Makita vs. Festool.
| I was under the impression the Festool track saw was
| closer to $1K a few years back when I got my Makita (and
| that the Makita was closer to $350). I could be mistaken
| though.
| hyperbovine wrote:
| Dowelmax is 1/4 the cost and makes a stronger joint.
| (https://vimeo.com/339631122) Woodworking metamorphosed
| at some point from "basic life skill" to "rich old guy
| money sport". Festool exploits the latter market
| masterfully.
| mauvehaus wrote:
| I'm sorry, but you're just wrong about who uses Festool
| tools. Yeah, some people with a boatload of money buy it
| because it's the most expensive tool.
|
| You primarily see their tools in the hands of pros,
| because their tools are, in many cases, better than the
| alternatives. The value prop on the Domino isn't that
| it's the strongest joint, it's that it's strong enough
| for the application, fast, and repeatable. When you build
| furniture for money, that matters. You don't have to
| build too many frame and panel assemblies to make it pay
| for itself.
|
| The dust collection on their sanders is outstanding. I
| don't do site work that involves sanding, but if I did,
| you'd better believe that I'd make that investment in a
| heartbeat. Not getting fine sanding dust all over your
| client's space is worth every penny of the cost.
| eropple wrote:
| For me, dust collection on sanders was really nice but it
| really was how much _less_ of a beating on my hands that
| the ETS dishes out. I went from a DeWalt to a Bosch, and
| the Bosch was somewhat better (and actually had excellent
| dust collection on its own when using a sanding mesh) but
| the Festool ETS125 is _so_ much more comfortable. If I
| didn 't have the money to upgrade the Bosch would be
| fine, but I do, and if I did this professionally I would
| absolutely _find_ the money for my own health.
| moistly wrote:
| Dominos aren't about strength so much as accuracy. The
| tool makes it dead easy to align edges with faces near
| seamlessly and squarely. It's a helluva improvement on
| biscuits or dowels.
| mauvehaus wrote:
| If you think the Domino is expensive, you should look at
| the Lamello biscuit joiners. While seated.
|
| They are also head and shoulders above any other biscuit
| joiner I've used. At the price, they should be. I don't
| own one, but I have used one in another shop.
| joe_guy wrote:
| The featool domino is patented until 2024 unfortunately.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| That's not far off, actually. Thanks.
| Wistar wrote:
| Coincidentally, just last night I watched this video from
| Stumpy Nubs showing how to create loose tenon joinery
| without the Domino. Of course, it does have some
| complexities, and assumes you have a table saw and plunge
| router.
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx1Mg2mTMO0
| akiselev wrote:
| I have the Festool Domino XL [1] and IMO router jigs like
| in that video are only superficially equivalent. The real
| benefit of the Domino is how it indexes cuts against
| edges using the mortise spacer tabs/accessories and the
| 0-90 degree fence, height adjusted using precise stops.
| It makes "measure twice, cut once" much smoother and
| setup is so fast that it's become my default method of
| joinery for anything where aesthetics matters. I
| sometimes use a single Domino jig for small parts [2] and
| clamped scrap wood spacers for awkward cuts, but the rest
| of the time I just use the built-in Domino functions and
| the included spacer accessory (which extends the length
| of the tabs to 200mm).
|
| It's hard to describe just how much more useful the tool
| is compared to router jigs, pocket holes, etc. It changed
| how I design my work, how I prepare rough stock and cut
| it to final size, and how I work with wood movement.
|
| [1] though I have the Seneca adapters and all that, I
| wish I had gotten the smaller one. Unless you're doing
| serious structural joinery the smaller Domino is much
| more convenient, and you can double up on tenons instead
| of reaching for a bigger one in most cases anyway.
|
| [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3JGfjUGbM
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I assume you are suggesting the Festool Domino DF 500
| (the smaller one)?
|
| I'll add it to my "Wish List", haha.
| akiselev wrote:
| Correct. Getting the bigger one is probably one of the
| worst decisions I've made in setting up my shop but at
| the time Festool wasn't expecting any more to come out of
| their factories for at least a quarter. It's more
| expensive than the 300 pound bandsaw and more awkward to
| use in most cases than the smaller domino. It was great
| retail therapy in the first year of the pandemic though.
|
| You'll know it if you _need_ the larger domino, like if
| you're selling a few heirloom quality beds a week for
| four or five figure sums, and then the expense will most
| likely be an afterthought.
| eropple wrote:
| I really like my DF500, and I'm inclined to agree with
| you about it being better overall now that you can use
| Domino Connect pieces with it. (If you're unfamiliar with
| the Domino Connect stuff--it makes it _way_ easier to
| make a gift or something you have to ship. DIY flatpack,
| but way way nicer.)
| Wistar wrote:
| To be clear, I'm not advocating for the work-around. To
| my eye, given the complexities of the work-around, and
| the fact I have no table saw, I'm pretty sure I'd go with
| the Domino. Besides, my Festool Kapex is a pure marvel
| that has made me a Festool fan.
| samstave wrote:
| A buddy of mine builds custom arcade machines
| @arcadeArmy.com - He is currently doing a "river" table
| epoxy build cabinet.
|
| his machines are beautiful and amazing - and he can make
| any game cabinet you like.
| chrisdhoover wrote:
| Live edge is bad but also funny because it is decidedly
| dead.
|
| River tables are a fad where future people will wonder what
| were they thinking
| amelius wrote:
| Can one make a decent income with woodworking?
| pigtailgirl wrote:
| -- would imagine the wood working tools are not cheap to
| build up a collection of - and the time commitment seems high
| - however the dude I linked on youtube seems to sell some
| stuff for USD $10/15k - his recent table cost him a little
| over a grand in wood and is currently on ebay for US
| $4,850.00* - according to the website of his wood supplier -
| the wood he selected for his recent table is the most
| expensive wood they have** --
|
| ** https://hamiltonleesupply.com/collections/liveedge-slabs-1
|
| * https://www.ebay.com/itm/195247776682
| cricalix wrote:
| Some people do, some don't.
|
| Even as a background listen, Shop Talk Live is pretty good -
| and they've covered the "make money from it" before.
| https://www.finewoodworking.com/blog/shop-talk-live
| cperciva wrote:
| Definitely as a luthier -- a violin made by a skilled luthier
| (not "top of the profession", but "a decade or more of
| experience doing this full time") is typically in the $10-40k
| range and if they're not doing repairs (which can also be
| lucrative) a luthier working full time hours can make 8-16
| good quality violins per year.
|
| Of course there's a bunch of expenses to be accounted for,
| but it's definitely still in the category of "six figure
| income if you're good".
| ska wrote:
| That's a pretty narrow specialty, and suspect it's not the
| kind of thing you easily jump to from general woodworking
| skills.
| cperciva wrote:
| Agreed that it's a narrow specialty. I think being a
| skilled (and careful!) woodworker is the primary
| prerequisite though; many luthiers have little or no
| musical talent (which may go partway to explaining why
| instruments are valued more on the quality of workmanship
| than the quality of sound they produce).
| [deleted]
| spenczar5 wrote:
| Finish carpentry is woodworking, and there are pretty good
| opportunities there.
|
| Furniture making is a tough way to make a living; factories
| are very good at furniture so you need to find customers with
| a lot of willingness to spend. Even at $25/hr for labor, a
| table and set of 4 chairs will end up around $5-10k easily.
| There just aren't that many people who spend that much.
|
| (I am a finish carpenter and sometimes furniture maker)
| [deleted]
| skywal_l wrote:
| Carl Rogers rebuilding a house in SW France is also pretty
| interesting even it the techniques he used are sometime
| unconventional: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K75pQ2HxRgM
| mgdlbp wrote:
| Matthias Wandel might interest you, woodworking with the hacker
| spirit (including making his own tools...out of wood)
|
| https://woodgears.ca
| staindk wrote:
| FWIW AFAIK Matthias is an engineer who used to work at RIM
| (BlackBerry). His videos about woodworking and everything
| else are great yeah.
| jagtesh wrote:
| Last thing I expected to discover on HN. This is incredibly
| useful for any DIYer. Thanks OP!
|
| Edit: Usually I refrain from thank you posts on HN but I had to
| make an exception owing to the unique nature of this post.
| walterbell wrote:
| Hack All The Things!
| [deleted]
| neogodless wrote:
| The included hyperlink to the product discussed did not work. I
| suspect it was something like this:
|
| https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hitachi-3-8-in-Plug-Cutter/3056069
| (discontinued)
|
| None of these match (have the 4 cutting teeth and the center),
| they either have two teeth with the center or 4 teeth without.
|
| https://www.woodcraft.com/categories/plug-cutters
|
| Wonder how these other ones hold up to hand drilling.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| I've hand drilled hundreds with a non centering plug cutter. It
| works fine. You make the plugs long anyway so tear out at the
| beginning isn't an issue. With a tapered cutter the starting
| surface is going into the hole so it doesn't have to look good
| either. The main tedium is when they get dull it becomes a bear
| to force them into the wood.
| jmuhlich wrote:
| I've used those Snappy brand cutters in a handheld cordless
| drill. It's workable but tricky. You need to start with light
| pressure and high speed until the cutters score a clean circle,
| then gradually increase the pressure. The workpiece absolutely
| needs to be clamped down with zero movement, and it helps if
| you can find a way to brace your upper body and the drill as
| you work. The trickiest part is keeping the cutter perfectly
| square to the work in both axes --- if you tip it too far
| you're likely to shatter the cutter as the metal is very
| brittle.
| ricardobeat wrote:
| The comments in the post say it's been discontinued, but I was
| able to find similar bits by other brands, searching for "self-
| centering plug cutter".
| CrankyCanuck wrote:
| Plug cutters, especially those that cut a tapered plug are an
| interesting exercise in patent shenanigans. As mentioned in this
| thread, a tapered plug is almost always superior than a straight
| sided one...the wedge action as the plug is driven down results
| in a very snug fit. Lee Valley Tools has a patented Snug Plug
| cutter. As you might imagine, it's been ripped off by many
| manufacturers. Lest you thing a tapered plug was patented...be
| aware it's not. The tool design itself is. In the case of the Lee
| Valley cutter, it has 4 "legs" that outline and then shear the
| sides off the plug. A quick patent search on "tapered plug
| cutter" will illustrate many designs...all patented, and
| resulting in a tapered plug. The idea is to copy the result of
| the product, and not the product itself. I will say the Lee
| Valley Snug plug cutters work very well. While you can use them
| hand held, they (like any similar cutter) will function far
| better in a drill press.
| walterbell wrote:
| The Lee Valley cutters are excellent, but max out around 1/2"
| depth. Any recommended wood plug cutters for deep (1" - 2")
| plugs?
|
| Are the Lee Valley cutters related to the Fuller ones,
| https://wlfuller.com/html/plug_cutters.html &
| https://wlfuller.com/html/about.html?
|
| _> During the late 1950 's, Warren Jr. renovated the
| countersink design -- a change that is extensively used today.
| Originally the flutes of the countersink were straight in
| design. In the new model the flutes are slightly slanted. This
| modified the tool from a scraper to a cutter. The design
| allowed the wood chips to clear, preventing clogging._
| mauvehaus wrote:
| If you're actually plugging holes with the plugs you make, the
| other thing to look for is a plug cutter that cuts a slightly
| tapered plug. The taper ensures that the plug will fill the hole
| even if it's drilled slightly undersized or (more commonly)
| slightly oversized. Beware that if you're driving a tapered plug
| into a hole near the edge of a board, you can split the board.
| Now you have two problems, as they say.
|
| What other use would a plug cutter have besides cutting plugs for
| filling holes? Cutting cylindrical tenons. For that application,
| you'd want one that cuts straight-sided plugs. Unless you're
| cutting tapered mortises too, of course, in which case you want
| the tapers to match.
|
| It turns out that you can also use plug cutters without the
| center spur in a handheld drill to cut cylindrical tenons _if_
| you taper the end of the stick so that the plug cutter rides the
| taper onto the end of the stick. I wouldn 't try this with a
| cutter with four spurs, but the single spur ones apparently do
| quite well:
|
| https://blog.lostartpress.com/2022/02/24/chairmaking-on-the-...
| walterbell wrote:
| For plugs intended as load-bearing screw anchors to replace
| damaged wood, should they be fastened to the surrounding wood
| by: 1. friction: tapered snug fit, expanding
| with screw 2. glue: non-tapered, small cylindrical
| plug<->hole gap for glue/epoxy 3. both: tapered snug fit
| + grooves for glue/epoxy
| mbrameld wrote:
| I don't know if you read it or not but the article also
| emphasizes that this cutter cuts a tapered plug.
| scooble wrote:
| At a pinch, drilling a hole the external diameter of the plug
| cutter and clamping that to the board you are getting the plug
| out of can act as a guide so the plug cutter doesn't spiral out
| and cut a hole in the wooden stairs you are using as an impromptu
| bench (for example).
| peteradio wrote:
| Or the foot acting as an impromptu clamp (for example).
| caned wrote:
| Just want to make a plug for Paul Sellers. His YouTube videos on
| woodworking with handheld tools have kept me captivated for
| years. Through watching his videos, I learned how to cut mortise
| and tenon, dovetail, and dado joints without touching a powered
| tool. A weekend hobbyist woodworker, the pleasure I get from
| truly crafting by hand is immense. Paul is a heavyweight, and he
| shares what he knows without holding back.
| jameshart wrote:
| > Just want to make a plug for Paul Sellers
|
| Apparently you can use a Hitachi plug cutter to do that.
| itsananderson wrote:
| +1 https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulSellersWoodwork
|
| I started watching his videos about 10 years ago, and while
| I've shifted a bit toward using more power tools in recent
| years, I still use his foundational hand tool techniques all
| the time. He can be a _little_ preachy about his "hand tool
| only" woodworking philosophy, especially on his blog. If you
| can overlook that, he has a ton of skill and is good at
| teaching and demonstrating that skill to others through his
| videos.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| I have a set of Montana plug cutters, also designed for hand
| drill use: https://www.montanabrandtools.com/collections/plug-
| cutters/p...
|
| A fun game to play, when cutting plugs in bulk, is to see how
| many you can cut before one breaks off and jams up the cutter.
| This is a bad thing because you have to break your flow and spend
| a non zero amount of time chipping the jammed plug out of the
| mechanism.
|
| I can do at least five before it goes wrong and I have to stop
| and get out a chisel to clear the jaws. Oh, for a drill press!
| megraf wrote:
| I've made plugs with a hole saw that turned out pretty OK. I
| drilled out the knot with a hole saw and made the plug by
| removing the center drill after getting about 20% through the
| plug board.
|
| I used a slightly larger saw for creating the plug and then
| sanded the difference (after marking the plug with a set of
| calipers) on a belt sanding jig, which allowed me to essentially
| turn the plug.
|
| The end result wasn't as good as Paul's, but it allowed me to get
| the job done.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-07-31 23:00 UTC)