[HN Gopher] Logistics, How Did They Do It, Part II: Foraging
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       Logistics, How Did They Do It, Part II: Foraging
        
       Author : burlesona
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2022-07-30 18:34 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (acoup.blog)
 (TXT) w3m dump (acoup.blog)
        
       | venk12 wrote:
       | This seems like so much more effort than war in modern times.
       | Wonder what future generations 100 to 200 years from now would
       | think and write about our current happenings.
        
         | orthoxerox wrote:
         | Modern war requires even more effort. Hundreds of thousands of
         | Russians and Ukrainians are consuming much more than a Roman
         | legion or a Spanish army in the Netherlands. They need a
         | constant stream of fuel and bullets and shells and more food
         | than just bread. It's just that trucks and trains and
         | oceangoing ships make logistics possible at this scale.
        
           | arrosenberg wrote:
           | I believe he does discuss that briefly in part 1.
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | Some of it is pretty specific, but decisions like:
       | 
       | * Heavy or light foraging?
       | 
       | * Forage with smaller groups of cavalry or large groups of
       | infantry?
       | 
       | * Terrorize the people in the countryside or try to stay on their
       | relative good side?
       | 
       | * Do you have handmills?
       | 
       | * When is your campaign going to happen?
       | 
       | seem like the type of choices that could intuitively be included
       | in a board game (although some of the content bumps it out of
       | comfortable family game night fare) or even maybe hacked into a
       | pen and paper RPG (I say hacked in because usually players aren't
       | in charge of huge armies anyway, so we're already pretty far
       | from, like, standard d&d).
       | 
       | It would be neat to play a game about logistics with tactics as
       | an afterthought, for once.
        
       | calvinmorrison wrote:
       | The last post got a lot of feedback since we all love math, but
       | this is also quite interesting. I didn't realize that quartering
       | troops was such a common practice as I had imagined more armies
       | acting like the Romans setting up their own camps - however it
       | seems common based on the authors writing. He mentions a few
       | times how this probably impacted the writing of the American 3rd
       | amendment - no quartering troops in civilian homes
        
         | arrosenberg wrote:
         | The third amendment was a response to the British quartering
         | troops in American houses. This was often done as punishment or
         | harassment, and the soldiers were often not well behaved.
        
           | DubiousPusher wrote:
           | Edit: From my reading of history, none of this is unique to
           | the British American Colonial experience. Forms of it are
           | ongoing in occupied countries.
           | 
           | And frankly, I believe we would've seen similar levels of
           | civilian violence and sexual violence in American occupations
           | of other countries had Americans not generally fed and housed
           | their own and therefore avoided that kind of close contact
           | and dependence.
        
             | arrosenberg wrote:
             | Probably, I wasn't implying it was specific to Britain,
             | just that the 3rd Amendment (like most of the Constitution)
             | was a direct response to abuses incurred from the Crown in
             | (their) recent history.
        
             | paleotrope wrote:
             | Well, imo, the US Constitution is very suitable for any
             | human society.
        
       | burlesona wrote:
       | I love "the tyranny of the Wagon Equation," what a great way to
       | put it. I'd never thought through this before, but it provides a
       | lot of context on the way wars unfolded throughout history.
        
         | amluto wrote:
         | It would have been fun to see the exponential behavior unfold.
         | Want to supply one soldier for one week? No big deal. Want to
         | supply one soldier for n weeks without resupply? Better have a
         | _huge_ amount of resources dedicated to just supply.
         | 
         | Except I suspect the wagon equation is actually worse than the
         | rocket equation. Rockets can have _large_ fuel tanks, and
         | rockets can throw away their stages en route. But if you like
         | your army to continue to exist, you can't throw away your wagon
         | drivers, etc. So you have worse than exponential behavior --
         | eventually any food-carrying resource runs out of the ability
         | to carry its own food, and it can't go farther even with
         | exponential blowup.
         | 
         | I suppose that, if setting up supply caches is in the cards,
         | then the rocket equation might emerge again. If one person can
         | carry enough for a 10-day round trip, then they could walk 4
         | days, deposit 2 days of food, and walk home. Repeat five times
         | and there's a full resupply at the cache. Now the person can
         | deplete the cache by visiting it, filling their pack, walking
         | four more days, caching two days of food, and walking all the
         | way home. So they can go on a 4n-day one-way trip by doing ~5^n
         | advance supply trips.
         | 
         | At least once you boost a rocket to escape velocity, it keeps
         | going!
        
           | Someone wrote:
           | > eventually any food-carrying resource runs out of the
           | ability to carry its own food, and it can't go farther even
           | with exponential blowup.
           | 
           | That problem is called the _"travelers across the desert
           | problem"_ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_problem)
           | 
           | I would think it can reach arbitrarily far, but can't think
           | of an easy proof, or find one.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-31 23:01 UTC)