[HN Gopher] The Best iPhone
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Best iPhone
        
       Author : rpgbr
       Score  : 522 points
       Date   : 2022-07-28 22:27 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (notes.ghed.in)
 (TXT) w3m dump (notes.ghed.in)
        
       | Lio wrote:
       | I think this article sums things up nicely.
       | 
       | The SE is a very right design.
       | 
       | I think it's its soft edges that I really like.
       | 
       | I'd be happy if they could swap the lightning for USB-c and
       | squeeze in a slightly larger screen but even if they can't I'd be
       | happy if they just kept roughly as is.
       | 
       | The SE is dull and boring in all the most wonderful ways. It's
       | the phone you buy if you don't want to talk to people about
       | phones.
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | When I went looking for a phone for my wife, the only requirement
       | was that it was 'not too big'.
       | 
       | In a whole store full of smartphones, this left _literally_ two
       | options. The iPhone SE, and some weird Chinese tiny model.
       | 
       | I'm just sad that everything needs to be so huge...
        
       | magic_hamster wrote:
       | > Almost nobody notices you have a new phone; when someone does,
       | the conversation ends quickly and invariably in a sentence like
       | "it's just like the old one, only faster".
       | 
       | I never understood the mindset of getting a new phone so other
       | people will notice. Do you remember what brand and model your
       | friends use? If so, why do you care?
       | 
       | > It is a crazy strategy of Apple to put the "brains" of its most
       | expensive phone, the iPhone 13 Pro Max (+USD 1.099), in its entry
       | model, low cost (USD 429). No other company does this.
       | 
       | It will be even crazier for Apple to design and manufacture an
       | entire separate line of chips just for this phone. Reusing the
       | chip currently in production is convenient which is why other
       | companies do this as well (DSLR sensors and processors instantly
       | come to mind).
       | 
       | Good for you for liking your phone. But this reads a bit too
       | young and eager. Good luck with your reviews going forward.
        
       | pg_bot wrote:
       | I have this phone and my only gripe with it is the button. It
       | isn't as tactile as previous models so it doesn't feel like
       | you've actually clicked it. I'm assuming this has to do with
       | water resistance but I'm not certain.
        
         | Crosseye_Jack wrote:
         | That and the tact switch was a common failure point.
         | 
         | I have the home button haptic set at 3 and unless i'm thinking
         | about it, its good enough to trick my brain into the same
         | feeling.
        
         | dilyevsky wrote:
         | It isn't a real button for like three versions now (since
         | iphone 8 or so) - it's a haptic sensor which i think also plays
         | fake sound through the speaker. Since it's the only iphone that
         | even has center "button" now it's still the best phone imo
        
       | culi wrote:
       | I wish the "buy it for life" movement had real momentum in
       | phones. No I don't want some super modular phone that could be
       | upgraded as parts wear out. I don't have anything against those,
       | but I'd like my phone to actually be waterproof...
       | 
       | What I want is something with the build quality of an iPhone.
       | Something so well made that they get the same battery life as
       | other smartphones despite having half the battery size. But
       | something that I can trust will last a really long time. But
       | everything about the phone industry seems specifically structured
       | against that possibility
        
         | acover wrote:
         | The issue is battery life degradation and 3rd party software
         | aims for newer devices.
        
       | pkrumins wrote:
       | The best phone is no phone.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | centilliard wrote:
       | The best 'cheap' phone that was ever released in the US was the
       | $499 Google Nexus 6P by Huawei in 2015. It was an octa-core phone
       | that made Apple's dual core iPhone 6s (also released in 2015)
       | look like an overpriced joke. The 6P's aluminum body was lighter
       | and thinner than the iPhone 6s, its camera took much better
       | pictures _by far_ especially in low light conditions
       | (restaurants, evening travel, etc), the iPhone's old backlit IPS
       | LCD screen had _nothing_ on 6P's gorgeous AMOLED. It took Apple 2
       | years to catch up to the 6P, with their iPhone X, and even then
       | it didn't beat the 6P in every category. It was a beast of a
       | phone. Mine finally died last year after 2 years of heavy use and
       | 4 years of being a backup phone.
       | 
       | See for yourself:
       | https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=7588&idPhone2...
        
         | addled wrote:
         | My wife enjoyed her 6P, then it died prematurely of bootloop.
         | As did the warranty replacement one.
         | 
         | Got a double payout from the eventual class action suit.
        
         | cloverich wrote:
         | My wife and I loved ours, but both bootloop suicided at the 13
         | and 15 month mark. _Both_. Out of warranty by 1 and 2 months.
         | That was my official departure from Android (which I otherwise
         | loved). I've never had a problem with the 6 iPhones I have
         | owned (3 before, 3 after) -- but ironically my Wife's second
         | iPhone after _also_ suicided. She somehow negotiated a free
         | replacement 6 months out of warranty, so iPhone still came out
         | ahead. I had a pretty good experience with the Nexus 5 (my
         | favorite for its time) and the Pixel 2 (not my favorite form
         | factor, otherwise great).
         | 
         | Both make great phones but having a popular phone has a really
         | killer feature where it works out a lot of bugs. Not perfect,
         | but I think if iPhones had the same level of issue as the Nexus
         | 6 there'd be an extended warranty or something comparable.
        
         | roneythomas6 wrote:
         | I agree with your comment. The camera was really impressive and
         | it was first nexus phone where the camera outperformed an
         | iPhone. But I think the video quality wasn't that great when
         | compared to iPhone. Mine started shutting down prematurely in
         | Canadian winter after more than a year of use. But Google
         | replaced mine for free even after the 1yr warranty expired.
         | Ended up with Pixel 2 which had even better camera than Nexus
         | 6P. The first iPhone to outperform Pixel 2 for low light was
         | the iPhone 11. But during those times the video quality really
         | sucked on both Nexus and Pixel, which it still does to the day.
        
         | wonderbore wrote:
         | Man it's been a while since I read someone comparing raw specs.
         | Android phones always looked better on paper but sucked
         | compared to the iPhone experience in every way. I don't even
         | say this as an Apple user because I tried so many times to
         | switch to Android when I looked at the specs myself.
         | 
         | Even before the iPhone I looked at the brand new 2G, no GPS,
         | 240p screen, 1Mpx camera iPhone and laughed from my "old"
         | 3G/VGA/GPS/2Mpx Windows Phone. Until I tried the iPhone and
         | there was no going back.
        
           | centilliard wrote:
           | I'll give you a pass on the Apple fanboism, seeing as you
           | made the poor judgment call to get a Windows phone ;)
           | 
           | On second thought, are you sure you're not still holding your
           | iPhone wrong?
           | 
           | http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/mobile/06/25/iphone.problems.re.
           | ..
        
         | mdasen wrote:
         | > It was an octa-core phone that made Apple's dual core iPhone
         | 6s (also released in 2015) look like an overpriced joke
         | 
         | The iPhone 6s gets a single-core Geekbench of 528 while the
         | Nexus 6P gets 208. The Nexus 6P's multi-core score was 520 -
         | less then the iPhone 6s' single-core score. The iPhone 6s'
         | multi-core score was 970 - 87% higher than the Nexus 6P.
         | 
         | Yep, it had 8 cores. Good for it. It was still a lot slower.
         | 
         | https://www.anandtech.com/show/9820/the-google-nexus-6p-revi...
         | 
         | AnandTech also found it a lot slower. Mozilla's Kraken web
         | browser benchmark took 2.4x longer on the Nexus 6P. The iPhone
         | scored around 1.9x higher on Google's Octane benchmark.
         | 
         | It's really hard to argue with Apple's superior processor
         | performance. I guess if you're looking for more cores with
         | inferior performance, the Nexus 6P fits the bill. MORE CORES!
        
           | centilliard wrote:
           | I had expected 8 slower cores to outperform the 2 slightly
           | faster cores in multi-core benchmarks, so the results are
           | somewhat surprising, but I guess Apple's wide pipeline design
           | keeps on giving. Thanks for the benchmark data.
           | 
           | For what it's worth, the statement you quoted did not
           | initially contain the number of cores. 6P felt super snappy
           | (at least on Android 6, not so much on Oreo) and I added the
           | cores for dramatic effect, but that backfired. I'll leave it
           | as-is so others can notice and learn from my mistake once
           | they read your reply.
        
         | MonaroVXR wrote:
         | I don't agree with you, since a friend and had the iPhone 6s
         | Plus and 7 Plus (Me) and a friend if mine the Huawei P9 Plus
         | and the 6P, 6P was nowhere. The best shot was taken in black
         | white with the Huawei P9 Plus and it literally beat my iPhones
         | and I still use that picture for several things.
        
           | centilliard wrote:
           | I'm a bit confused. If you're trying to say that Huawei's P9
           | (released in 2016) took better pictures than Huawei's 6P
           | (released in 2015) and than the iPhones, then I don't think
           | there's anything to disagree over. They both took better
           | pictures than the iPhones, seeing as they're both Huawei
           | phones released shortly one after the other.
           | 
           | Now that I think about it, you might be saying that P9 was
           | more wide-spread in the US than the 6P, which would also be
           | confusing, because I don't think the P9 was officially sold
           | in the US.
        
         | rr888 wrote:
         | I had a 6p it was great but cheap construction. First battery
         | wore out after 9 months, second one wasn't much longer,
         | especially in the cold. Lots of other people had hardware
         | problems, it was rare to see them after a few years.
        
       | notRobot wrote:
       | I would pay a decent chunk of money for an iPhone SE clone that
       | runs Android. I'm so tired of big phones. I can't do this
       | anymore.
       | 
       | Past discussions:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31411191
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30405011
        
         | h4waii wrote:
         | Pixel 5 + GrapheneOS makes me feel the same way about my device
         | as the author.
         | 
         | It's small enough to pocket in a pair of lightweight shorts.
         | It's bland to look at, no branding, symmetrical bezels all
         | around, but stuffed with all the features and functionality I
         | want.
        
         | borissk wrote:
         | There are individual customers that will pay for all kind of
         | crazy features. But the vast majority of the customers buy
         | bigger phones. There's a rumor the iPhone Mini sells so badly
         | Apple will not release any new versions.
        
         | fomine3 wrote:
         | Let's see today appeared Zenfone 9, it loosks good.
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32271660
        
           | allset_ wrote:
           | 5.9in is not small.
        
             | hasperdi wrote:
             | The display aspect ratio is 20:9. It's a bit taller than
             | iPhone SE 2, but similar width. So 1 hand use friendly.
        
         | dnissley wrote:
         | An independent effort to fund the development of such a phone
         | is being organized at https://smallandroidphone.com/
        
         | akvadrako wrote:
         | The Pixel 4a is probably your best bet; that's what I use.
         | Still getting updates and it's quite decent, though it's a
         | couple years old now.
        
           | allset_ wrote:
           | Love the size and weight of my Pixel 4a. I broke the screen
           | on mine a few weeks back, and paid over half the original
           | price of the phone to have it repaired.
        
           | wffurr wrote:
           | Last update is scheduled for August 2023.
           | 
           | https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#zippy=.
           | ..
        
         | radicaldreamer wrote:
         | iPhone 13 mini will probably be the last small phone we'll see
         | for a while.
         | 
         | There's the Balmuda phone on the Android side as well. The
         | market simply does not support small screen devices.
        
         | simonmales wrote:
         | Running Asus ZenFone 8. Screen size is relatively normal
         | compared to the monsters that other manufacturers ship.
        
           | akvadrako wrote:
           | Screen size doesn't matter though; the body is within a
           | couple mm of an S22 and thicker.
           | 
           | Same with the Zenfone 9.
        
           | MereInterest wrote:
           | I'm on the Pixel 3, which at 5.5" is right at the upper limit
           | of what I consider acceptable. Looks like the ZenFone 8 is
           | 5.9", and is being described as "compact".
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | Zenphone 9 got it's review embargoes lifted today! Really
           | cool, from what I can tell: https://youtu.be/J_0teOgTAhQ
        
         | JansjoFromIkea wrote:
         | Samsung XCover 5 seems the best bet atm, to the point I'm
         | surprised I hadn't heard of it earlier; smaller than just about
         | any other android phone I've encountered in years (almost
         | iPhone Mini sized), has a removeable battery and theoretically
         | should have zero need for a case. The double combo of Samsung
         | promising longer support cycles and it technically being an
         | enterprise model mean it should be supported longer than most
         | Android phones would be too.
         | 
         | New they're a bit pricey for the specs but you can find them
         | like new used on ebay for half RRP.
        
         | neop1x wrote:
         | I am using Sony Xperia 5 II and I am quite happy with it. It is
         | not that small but it's acceptable for me: 68 x 158 millimeters
         | (2.68 x 6.22 in). And it also features a headphone jack! :P
        
         | pcurve wrote:
         | I have iPhone 11. At 44 I use large font setting so I can use
         | it without glasses. I can't imagine going smaller. :(
        
         | nebula8804 wrote:
         | Then you'd want the iPhone Mini right? Its smaller than the SE.
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | Also, it retains TouchID which is superior to FaceID despite
       | being considered a less premium feature. I also rock and love my
       | iPhone SE.
        
       | bch wrote:
       | I Like my iPhone SE (currently 3rd gen, previously 1st gen), but
       | goodness is it ever _slippery_. It's lovely to look at, but tough
       | to use without covering it in a case.
        
       | highmastdon wrote:
       | This is precisely the reason I have an iPhone 12 mini. Form
       | factor is just good to drive with one hand. I like the cornered
       | edges more as it slides less easily from my hand. Price is just
       | right. Build quality is better than the SE. All in all, really
       | happy. I've jumped from iPhone 6 to the 12 mini. That's how long
       | I can handle a phone. When I did the iPhone 6 battery replacement
       | deal for EUR35 (?) my gps was broken afterwards so I got a
       | replacement refurbished phone. So you could say I used two iPhone
       | 6's, but still...
        
       | cryptoegorophy wrote:
       | Best iPhone for me is the one that takes the best pictures. I
       | have small kids growing up and one thing that you might regret is
       | not taking enough quality pictures with the "always available"
       | camera. For this reason I also have "live" photos feature.
        
       | at_a_remove wrote:
       | I am still rocking an iPhone SE, first generation. However, it
       | has done a few troubling things as of late and I guess I must
       | prepare myself to get a third generation. I feel like five years
       | is a decent span for a phone. And so I have a screen protector
       | and an Otterbox on order. Finding out that it won't support IOS
       | 16 makes this kind of an inevitable purchase.
       | 
       | TouchID, plus the tiny size, makes it a one-hander if I want, and
       | I like that.
       | 
       | I am unsure what I will do with my original phone.
        
         | beckingz wrote:
         | New SE is... fine?
         | 
         | ~10-20% better on every dimension than my old android phone.
        
       | SergeAx wrote:
       | I am using a phone I bought almost 4 years ago for exactly 400
       | USD (thanks, Gmail, for great search feature). I am looking for a
       | reason to buy a new one, but cannot imagine anything except for
       | slightly degraded battery. I am well off financially, but just
       | can't imagine a reason to buy a phone for $1000, not to mention
       | rumored $1200 for iPhone 14 (yes, I am aware of USD inflation for
       | last 4 years).
       | 
       | Ah, and it is a flagship Xiaomi, with great AMOLED display,
       | enough RAM and storage and best (for the time) Snapdragon SoC.
        
       | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
       | The lack of fingerprint sensor on latest iPhones is very
       | disappointing. My trusty MotoZ4 has it directly in the screen and
       | I love it so much that I refuse to buy myself any other phone
       | that doesn't have fingerprint sensor on the front panel or built
       | in the screen.
        
       | lolive wrote:
       | The 6s.
        
       | ndespres wrote:
       | I agree that it's the best one they sell now. I just had to
       | retire my iPhone SE first-generation from 2016 which was finally
       | starting to fail on me. Coming from that, the newer 3rd gen SE
       | still feels too large in my hands. My biggest gripe, though, is
       | the glass back instead of the old aluminum back. I think this
       | smoothness is the reason the thing keeps falling out of my pocket
       | no matter where I sit or what I'm wearing. The thing will not
       | stay put!
        
       | fleddr wrote:
       | A large phone makes consuming lots of content quite comfortable,
       | from social media to general reading to watching videos. Which
       | means you'll use it a lot. You'll normalize it and won't even
       | bother to move to a larger screen.
       | 
       | Therefore, intentionally buy a sucky phone that adds friction.
       | You'll use it less, in moderation, only for things of some
       | importance. Plus it costs less. Big quality of life improvement.
       | 
       | Remove all non-essential apps to reduce reasons to use it even
       | more. Next, physically detach from the object. Leave it in
       | another room, forget all about it.
       | 
       | Unlearn what has become second nature.
        
         | charles_kaw wrote:
         | I don't think phones are bad. I don't think having it with you
         | all the time is bad. I think what's bad is letting it draw you
         | in constantly. Install all your dumb apps, but also turn off
         | notifications for anything but direct messages. You'll feel
         | better.
         | 
         | But speaking of "dumb apps"... I specifically resist using my
         | phone as content consumption. Even with a big screen, it kinda
         | sucks compared to a laptop or tablet. Fidelity matters to me.
         | 
         | But also... I like having a small phone because it fits nicely
         | in my pocket. I like having a small phone because I can use it
         | with one hand. It's not even about friction, just ergonomics
         | and getting the hell out of my way.
        
       | prepend wrote:
       | I run an SE and it's great. I like it's size and its price.
       | 
       | Phones should be cheap and simple. I don't want to pay more for a
       | phone than a Mac book air.
        
       | mysore wrote:
       | yeah i wish i had one of these over the 13 pro. i basically never
       | use the camera.
        
       | hardwaresofton wrote:
       | I was hoping to see my phone and I was not disappointed.
       | 
       | > It is very likely that this is the last iPhone SE of its kind,
       | the last "iPhone with a button" (a recurring joke here in
       | Brazil). The reception from critics has been lukewarm and sales,
       | apparently, below expectations. That's a shame.
       | 
       | This is saddening to read, and with how Apple is it's not like
       | buying more of the same phone as a backup would work -- they'd
       | all stop working at the same time, probably.
       | 
       | The iPhone SE is so cheap that I could _throw my phone to the
       | ground for fun_ and not be bothered about buying a new one except
       | for the annoyance of moving stuff over (which was actually really
       | easy thanks to hard work by apple engineers). It 's an intrusive
       | thought (who would want to just throw their phone to the ground
       | for no reason?) but knowing it's easily remedied is so freeing.
       | 
       | We really need to start pushing frugality as a society. I know
       | it's bad for GDP and status games, but some things just...
       | shouldn't be spent on that much. Phones nearing identical
       | quality/functionality are one of them.
        
         | alephxyz wrote:
         | > I know it's bad for GDP
         | 
         | That's the broken window fallacy
        
           | hardwaresofton wrote:
           | It looks like the sarcasm went undetected. I thought noting
           | GDP in the same sentence as status games was enough of a
           | signal.
        
         | clairity wrote:
         | it's not the same, but apple could add the home button on the
         | side, even if they remove it from the front. it could
         | incorporate the fingerprint sensor like the ipad, or they could
         | use an in-display fingerprint sensor, combined with the removal
         | of the front camera, and voila, their holy grail single slab of
         | glass iphone!
         | 
         | i still use my trusty 6S because i prefer the fingerprint
         | scanner and home button, plus having a real headphone jack is
         | useful every now and then.
        
           | hardwaresofton wrote:
           | > it's not the same, but apple could add the home button on
           | the side, even if they remove it from the front. it could
           | incorporate the fingerprint sensor like the ipad, or they
           | could use an in-display fingerprint sensor, combined with the
           | removal of the front camera, and voila, their holy grail
           | single slab of glass iphone!
           | 
           | This is such a huge design question -- the button layout of
           | the phone is now muscle memory for me! I do wonder if they'd
           | make such a drastic change.
           | 
           | > i still use my trusty 6S because i prefer the fingerprint
           | scanner and home button, plus having a real headphone jack is
           | useful every now and then.
           | 
           | That's exactly what I upgraded from. I do miss my real
           | headphone jack!
           | 
           | What's your plan for support/new devices going forward?
        
             | clairity wrote:
             | i'd put the button where the thumb lands on the right side
             | (even though i'd personally prefer the left, most people
             | would prefer the right). i do love that i can put my phone
             | upside down in my back pocket and lift it out with my thumb
             | on the button and have it be open to the home screen when
             | it's face up in front of me.
             | 
             | my plan is, i'm gonna use this thing until it dies! =) but
             | no, i'll probably upgrade next year, as the 6S no longer
             | gets ios updates as of this year but i see no need to
             | upgrade quite yet. i'm not sure if i'll get a 13 mini
             | (assuming no more minis to come) or splurge and get a 15
             | (that i don't really need, but it'll be new and shiny and
             | irresistable).
        
             | vgel wrote:
             | Not GP, but I also still run a 6S(+). I recently replaced
             | the battery using an iFixIt kit, which fixed my main
             | complaint with it.
             | 
             | It still runs dog-slow, especially on modern websites,
             | which is both bad and good in that if I keep the Reddit app
             | uninstalled and use New Reddit, the memory leaks crashing
             | my Safari tab is a good indication to stop using it :-)
             | Unfortunately HN doesn't have such a feature...
             | 
             | I didn't hear about the iOS 16 dropping support rumors
             | until now :-(. But apparently the security updates will
             | keep coming for a few years. I guess once apps start
             | dropping support for iOS 15, I'll have to switch.
        
       | empressplay wrote:
       | I have an OG SE and when it dies I'll find another used one!
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | I'd be happy with an iphone 14 or 15 mini. (I'm not ready to get
       | rid of my 12), but for similar reasons as described in this post.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | I feel like I could use an iPhone 13 mini for at least 3 more
         | years. I used an iPhone 6S plus from Nov 2015 to May 2020, a
         | 2020 iPhone SE from May 2020 to Nov 2021, and I gave that to my
         | kid and took my wife's iPhone XS, which has been in use since
         | Sep 2018.
         | 
         | I want a 13 mini size phone, but I am waiting for the XS to
         | stop being usable.
         | 
         | I just want them to keep selling a mini size phone, whether it
         | be 13 or 15. I see no difference until it has been at least 4
         | years in my use cases.
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | The (actual) perfect phone is the gen 1 SE. I literally just
       | returned my gen 3 and ordered two new sealed in the box gen 1
       | SE's on eBay for $150 a piece. I've been using this model for 8
       | years. I'm set on phones for the next decade.
       | 
       | I'm hoping and praying that Apple will someday make a modern 5G
       | phone with the dimensions and features of a gen 1. But until then
       | this is my phone. It is literally perfect and there's nothing on
       | the market remotely similar.
        
         | torstenvl wrote:
         | Care to explain why they're "trash"? What didn't you like about
         | it? Just the rounded corners?
        
           | runjake wrote:
           | They aren't trash. I think the OP is trying to say they don't
           | like the way the current SEs look.
           | 
           | I just bought my kids their own SE current generations, and
           | me with my 13 Pro is kind of jealous of how ergonomic,
           | pocketable, and usable (home button) they are.
           | 
           | Edit: OP edited their comment to remove the "they are trash"
           | verbiage.
        
             | CalChris wrote:
             | I stopped caring about the look after I started putting my
             | $650 12 Mini in a Quadlock case which by itself is kind of
             | dorky. I don't even care about the color anymore. Whenever
             | I take it out to clean it looks brand new.
        
         | victor22 wrote:
         | 13 mini? I have an iPhone 8 which is just perfect, I switched
         | to my old iPhone 11 Max 2 days ago but I decided to sell it and
         | go back to the 8. No reason at all to upgrade from the 8 except
         | for better camera on the SE's or minis. All apps and everything
         | runs the same for 1/3 the price.
        
         | miffy900 wrote:
         | I 100% agree, the iPhone 5 form factor was and still remains
         | the closest to the perfect phone.
         | 
         | > I'm hoping and praying that Apple will someday make a modern
         | 5G phone with the dimensions and features of a gen 1. But until
         | then this is my phone. It is literally perfect and there's
         | nothing on the market remotely similar.
         | 
         | That's probably not going to happen realistically; the mini and
         | iPhone 8-form factor SEs are still pretty good phones.
         | 
         | I bet in the future though the current mini iPhones will
         | probably end up being a future generation SE.
        
         | nateb2022 wrote:
         | What? I'm not sure if you're aware, but all the SE models have
         | the same "bubble" exterior you describe, so I'm not sure how
         | one can be better than another in that aspect.
         | 
         | Also what? The 3rd gen iPhone SE has 5G.
        
           | mastazi wrote:
           | the 1st gen SE design looks nothing like the newer models, it
           | was actually based on the iPhone 5 design, see pictures here
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_SE_(1st_generation)
           | 
           | The SE 2nd and 3rd gen on the other hand are based on the
           | iPhone 6/7/8 design which is quite different
        
         | toomim wrote:
         | What do you do about the battery life on old SE's from ebay? Do
         | you upgrade the battery?
        
           | ramesh31 wrote:
           | Yeah they are honestly 50/50 at this point whether they even
           | work out of the box. Fortunately the battery is really easy
           | to replace.
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | I also upgraded from an SE 1 to an SE 3, and I've been really
         | happy with mine. The larger size was a little annoying at first
         | but I've adapted.
         | 
         | I too would rather have had a phone with the smaller size of
         | the original SE, but I've found the larger phone an acceptable
         | trade-off for the speed, memory, and battery life upgrades I
         | got going from the SE 1 to the SE 3. Let's just hope the SE 4,
         | if there is one, isn't much bigger.
        
       | BbzzbB wrote:
       | Am I cheap, poor, frugal or outdated to find it mildly funny
       | US$400-450+tx are considered cheap phones nowadays?
       | 
       | Not that I mind as I'm able to find good value (in my opinion and
       | for my needs) in second-hand markets for electronics (couldn't be
       | more satisfied with my $100 Pixel 3a and aging T430s laptop), I
       | just find it impressive how much price references have shifted
       | over time as flagship phones ran from $400-500 well into the
       | $1-1.5k range[0]. Maybe I wouldn't be so confused about it if I
       | understood what use people have for their phones to hold so much
       | compute. Aside from the undeniably sick cameras, it seems to me
       | like most people have supercomputers to browse social medias as
       | AAA-mobile-gaming doesn't seem prevalent at all here (AFAIK it is
       | in Asia).
       | 
       | Millennial yelling at clouds, signing off.
       | 
       | 0:
       | https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/news/21/09/iphone-13-steve-...
        
         | Bud wrote:
         | Just to cite one example, all that blazing compute is what
         | enables the cameras to work as well as they do.
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | My phone is the thing I use most out of all things I have.
         | 
         | So spending a few extra cent per hour of usage to get a nicer
         | one is very easy to justify.
        
           | agent008t wrote:
           | But do you _want_ to be spending so much time on your phone?
           | 
           | To me, buying an expensive phone is somewhat like buying an
           | expensive tobacco pipe. It will just encourage you to use it
           | more. When in fact, most of the 'use' is worse than useless.
           | 
           | $180 is about how much a phone should cost, and even that is
           | too much what with forced (completely unjustified)
           | obsolescence. $450 for a 'budget' phone is madness. $1000+
           | for a flagship is insanity. Unless you have a specific,
           | legitimate need for it - most people don't.
        
             | BurningFrog wrote:
             | Sounds like we should both have the phones we have :)
        
           | ramraj07 wrote:
           | Exactly. Contrary to popular belief no one became poor by
           | buying Starbucks or iPhones. For most folks their biggest
           | financial blunders are likely always about real estate,
           | marital, or career related not your petty cash spending
           | habits.
        
             | Toutouxc wrote:
             | In the US maybe, but there are many countries where housing
             | or services are much cheaper, while iPhones cost the same.
             | 
             | In the poorer regions of my reasonably modern European
             | country, getting even the base model of every iPhone
             | generation would put significant stress on most families'
             | finances, but it's what some folks actually do because it's
             | such a status symbol.
        
         | babypuncher wrote:
         | The price is "cheap" because it is low enough that most
         | carriers will give it to you basically for free if you trade in
         | your old phone and/or agree not to switch to a different
         | carrier for 18-24 months.
        
           | minerva23 wrote:
           | That's not free. They're amortizing the cost of the phone
           | into the service fees.
           | 
           | Even budget carriers do this. Google Fi charges $450 for the
           | 6a or $240 if you agree to two years. Their cheapest lines
           | are $15/mo, which is $360 over two years, so you can see how
           | they can offer the $210 discount.
        
             | babypuncher wrote:
             | It is functionally free if you were going to pay for the
             | same service from the same carrier for that period of time
             | anyways.
        
         | chadash wrote:
         | I mean it's all relative, but yeah, $429 starting price for a
         | phone coming from a company that is known to support their
         | products for a minimum of 5 years is really not bad. Especially
         | since these phones hold their value far better than any other
         | brand on the market. I bought an iphone SE (2nd gen) in 2020
         | for $450 and sold it for $230 in 2022, so it worked out to
         | about $110/year. It was a fantastic phone, but I upgraded to a
         | 13 mini because my work offered to pay for the phone. I used to
         | have a Moto E, which I think most people would consider a
         | "cheap" phone and a) it wasn't a great phone b) i had no desire
         | to keep it more than 2 years and c) by the time i was done
         | using it, it's secondary market value was low enough that i
         | didn't bother selling it.
        
         | superjan wrote:
         | It took me a long, long time to get used to having an expensive
         | device on me that is bulky, fragile, not waterproof (includes
         | iPhones after you drop it once), requires daily charging, and
         | not durable in general (due to battery or sabotage by update).
         | Jewelry is more expensive but has none of these issues.
         | 
         | They are certainly very useful, but I don't think the current
         | standard is the best compromise.
        
           | another_kel wrote:
           | I bought iPhone 11 when it came out, never wear a case and
           | dropped it numerous times. It still works fine, with the
           | original screen intact(not counting some scratches).
           | 
           | It survived even flying from an e-scooter after I've hit a
           | bump on 15 km/h and sliding couple meters on asphalt
           | afterwards.
           | 
           | And after all that it still had no problem when I dived into
           | the pool with it and shot how I'm riding on a water slide.
           | 
           | Maybe I'm just lucky but it feels like you are exaggerating
           | iPhone fragility. They've improved a lot recently.
        
             | superjan wrote:
             | Perhaps we were unlucky. Fyi: the standard iPhone warranty
             | does not cover water damage (and it was just a spill, not
             | submerged). Found out the hard way.
        
           | elzbardico wrote:
           | FWIW dropped my iPhone 12+ several times (a recurring
           | occurrence with some pants I use when I put the phone in the
           | front pocket and sit on my office chair). So far, I can still
           | wash it and even use it in the pool with the kids.
           | 
           | Of course, YMMV.
        
         | BolexNOLA wrote:
         | I don't know about everyone else, but as a professional in the
         | film/video world having a new-ish (I upgrade every 3 years or
         | so) iPhone actually helps me do my job.
        
         | TAForObvReasons wrote:
         | The real draw is the camera. The ease of taking videos,
         | especially of your kids, is worth the price tag for many. And
         | the camera is a differentiating factor between the lower and
         | higher tier models. Is the state-of-the-art camera needed?
         | Debatable, but once family and memories are involved all
         | economic rationality goes out the window.
        
         | kome wrote:
         | expensive smartphones are Veblen goods [1] by now, they mostly
         | make no sense, but they will be bought for other reasons
         | 
         | Personally, I won't spend more than 200 eur for a new phone.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good
        
         | MAGZine wrote:
         | but... your pixel was more than $100 new. the phone you use
         | does not normally fit into the category you describe. the only
         | part that makes it work is the "second hand," bit.
         | 
         | cheap/expensive is relative, and $400 is cheap for a phone (for
         | north american audiences).
         | 
         | fwiw, i find even pixel phones to be sort of slow after a
         | couple years into software updates, mostly between
         | multitasking/app switching. so I think that the compute
         | actually doesn't really scale well into the future as you
         | imply, which is a separate unfortunate fact.
        
           | BbzzbB wrote:
           | I wasn't trying to compare second-hand price vs new, I just
           | added that since I didn't want to come off as complaining
           | when I'm not really concerned by the cost of new phones (or
           | electronics for that matter), it was just an observation. If
           | anything, I'm thankful for consumerism enabling me to buy
           | from an ample supply of quality second-hand electronics.
           | 
           | >cheap/expensive is relative
           | 
           | I guess that's kind of my point if there was one. Today's
           | cheap smartphones are at the price of flagship phones from
           | <10 years ago. I find it noticeable how far goalposts have
           | moved when it comes to what cheap (let alone expensive) means
           | for smartphones. Which is just a remark and not a criticism,
           | consumers command markets as it should be and I'm more than
           | aware my habits are not extrapolatable.
        
           | bubblethink wrote:
           | Through luck or minor hacks, I have been able to keep my
           | phone costs less than $100 a year over the last decade. The
           | nexus and pixel lines have almost always offered a new phone
           | around the $300 mark (black friday, trade in, some promo,
           | etc.) and they last for about 3 years.
        
           | 29083011397778 wrote:
           | > i find even pixel phones to be sort of slow after a couple
           | years into software updates
           | 
           | I assume that's because they're Google's software updates.
           | Removing all Google apps, and most phones are _fast_. My
           | BlackBerry KeyOne, with its midrange chipset, is still fast
           | five years after it was released. Hell, I wanted a smaller
           | form factor for a few days, and threw my SIM into my Nexus 5.
           | Changing apps, installing updates, and navigating with OSM
           | were all just as fast as 2013, when the phone was new. I even
           | flipped through a few Tiktok videos to try it out - and while
           | the first video stuttered a bit, everything after that was
           | _still_ quick.
           | 
           | Google Apps, like Google Play Services, the Play Store, and
           | especially Maps, all seem to expand over time to consume all
           | available resources. OS updates don't slow down your phone -
           | the software you just want to run (and are pushed _heavily_
           | to keep up-to-date) simply keeps getting heavier.
        
             | cercatrova wrote:
             | If I removed all Google apps, my phone would be like a
             | paperweight to me. Maps, Photos, Calendar, Gmail, Drive,
             | Books, YouTube and others are all critical to my workflows,
             | and even just for navigating the world and taking photos in
             | general.
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | You can find replacements for all of those through
               | f-droid. You do lose a little bit of functionality and/or
               | polish with those alternative apps though.
        
               | makeitdouble wrote:
               | There's no replacement for Google Maps and Google Photos
               | in the current world IMO.
               | 
               | That feels hyperbolic, but any alternative to Map that
               | I've seen were either:
               | 
               | - strongly platform limited (e.g. only works on
               | android/iOS, and you lose bookmarks, preferences, or even
               | finding consistent info when using any over device)
               | 
               | - use inconsistent apps (e.g. OSM will have different
               | clients on different platforms, which crosses the first
               | point)
               | 
               | - be straight bad (e.g. Apple Maps in low population
               | areas)
               | 
               | - have little to no third data integration ("what's the
               | website of that business I'm looking at")
               | 
               | Photos is another can of worm, as outside of Apple Photos
               | and Flickr every service gaining popularity just died a
               | horrible death. Then Apple Photos is heavily platform
               | limited, and Flickr isn't great for personal photo
               | maintenance and sharing for many reasons, not going into
               | the Yahoo part of it.
               | 
               | These two products have I think a stronger stand than
               | Gmail or even Google Search, and they are the closest to
               | someone's day to day reality.
        
               | blfr wrote:
               | Yes, excellent points.
               | 
               | And then Google Photos works together with Google Maps
               | Timeline to show you pics taken on a given day in a
               | certain place. Theoretically possible on any platform
               | since photos have appropriate metadata, but practically
               | only available from Google.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | >not going into the Yahoo part of it.
               | 
               | Flickr hasn't been owned by Yahoo for a number of years
               | at this point. I've had a paid Flickr account for quite a
               | few years but I admit I don't use it a lot these days.
               | 
               | I find Google Maps is in a different category than
               | Photos. I use Photos from time to time for image
               | identification but that's pretty much it. (And there are
               | a lot of alternatives for that these days.)
        
               | makeitdouble wrote:
               | Flickr is now independent, but it was part of Yahoo for
               | so long I'd guess most people having all their photos in
               | it probably used a Yahoo account. I'll confess I tried
               | accessing mine after a years long hiatus and it didn't
               | work (endless password resets)
               | 
               | On alternatives, which storage/sync and management
               | service do you see working at the same level as Photos ?
               | I'm genuinely curious and would move if it matches up
               | (Basically, what is the Gmail->Fastmail like go to
               | alternative for Photos ?)
               | 
               | Image identification looks to me like a very fringe use
               | for a photo storage service, or perhaps you're referring
               | to searching all your photos for specific keywords ?
               | 
               | PS: Reminds me of the photos services curse from "The
               | Prompt" podcast, where every time they'd present a
               | competitive photo service, like Everpix, it would go out
               | of business or something horrible happen to it a few
               | months in.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I use Flickr for a curated subset of my photos but it's
               | honestly been a while since I've uploaded anything.
               | 
               | I have Apple Photos but only what I shoot on my iPhone.
               | 
               | Primarily though I organize and edit photos locally with
               | Lightroom Classic. (And, in addition to local backups,
               | it's backed up by Backblaze along with all my other
               | files.
        
               | cercatrova wrote:
               | That's the problem though, those f-droid alternatives are
               | nowhere near Google apps' functionality. Believe me, I've
               | tried, and I've always gone back to GApps.
        
             | _carbyau_ wrote:
             | Sadly Maps is the killer phone app for me. Otherwise I'd
             | try harder to get rid of the google stuff on my phone.
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | Yeah, I switched to iOS but still keep Google Maps around
               | for the times when Apple Maps doesn't quite work the way
               | it should. I'm still 90-95% Apple Maps but sometimes I
               | have to call for backup.
               | 
               | Google also works better for "browsing" the neighborhood
               | to see what businesses are nearby.
        
             | rovr138 wrote:
             | I mean, in the case of phone comparisons, what you want to
             | benchmark is the phone with it's default services and apps
             | (which is what people use).
             | 
             | If you can modify those, then what's the comparison on? How
             | fast it boots to no apps or services running?
        
           | rejor121 wrote:
           | We are arguably in a tech golden age where all this cool
           | stuff is cheap now.
           | 
           | Look at video cards. Counting for inflation those things were
           | expensive. Then they got cheap. Now they're gonna get
           | expensive again ( look at the proposed prices for 4000 series
           | GeForce cards ).
           | 
           | I think we are eventually going to see more expensive phones
           | simply because people won't really need to buy new ones
           | anymore.
        
         | throw7 wrote:
         | You are not. And the camera in the pixel 6a is the same as it
         | ever was and they made it worse by replacing the rock solid
         | back fingerprint reader with a junk "under the glass tesla AI
         | is coming next year" reader.
        
         | NovaVeles wrote:
         | I'm in the same camp as you. Running an T420 instead. ;)
         | 
         | My phone is a top-low end phone or a low-mid end Oppo A 53? Or
         | something like that. It does everything I need with loads of
         | head room. Will just run it until death.
        
         | hgazx wrote:
         | Flagships are now so much better than when they costed $400.
         | But don't worry because there currently are phones that cost
         | $200 and are better than what you got for $400 years ago, so
         | you're covered too.
        
         | eyelidlessness wrote:
         | > Am I cheap, poor, frugal or outdated to find it mildly funny
         | US$400-450+tx are considered cheap phones nowadays?
         | 
         | I can't speak to whether you're any of those, but I can say
         | this. Anyone spending significantly more than that (I'm
         | included in this category) is either:
         | 
         | - Buying it for the quality of its camera (me again, not that
         | I'm an especially avid photographer; I almost exclusively take
         | pics of my pup)
         | 
         | - Some mix of spending too much or not realizing they're in one
         | or more categories below (some large majority, I'd wager)
         | 
         | - Doing a cost benefit analysis that favors spending more
         | upfront for a longer-term investment (me again _again_ ,
         | although my phone ownership lifecycle has shortened
         | significantly; it's still beneficial because my hand-me-downs
         | benefit loved ones)
         | 
         | - Married to the software (me once again, much moreso on mobile
         | than on general purpose computers these days)
         | 
         | - Enthralled by compute power or some other hardware
         | particularity (o_0 I'm probably just getting old but I mostly
         | don't get this... okay I'm amused that my phone is more
         | powerful in many ways than its current high-end laptop
         | companion)
        
           | RealityVoid wrote:
           | - cares about SW updates
        
             | eyelidlessness wrote:
             | I think that falls squarely under "married to the
             | software"? At least it was part of the spirit of I
             | intended.
        
               | mjgerm wrote:
               | You have to admit that there is some gap between "I want
               | the latest re-rounded corners on app icons" (which fits
               | into that category neatly) and "I don't want 4 years of
               | unpatched 0-days still open on my phone" (which I'd argue
               | does not).
        
               | eyelidlessness wrote:
               | I don't know why I have to admit this, but sure I'll
               | grant it. I don't think the former is a reasonable
               | characterization of "married to the software", I think
               | it's a caricature.
        
             | stephenboyd wrote:
             | The first generation iPhone from 2016 can still be updated
             | with the latest iOs version.
        
           | SECProto wrote:
           | I think you're missing a big one that applies to most people
           | I know:
           | 
           | - Locked into two year contracts where a phone upgrade is
           | "free" every two years, but they are spending $100+ per month
           | for that "free" phone
           | 
           | As a Canadian, I have a $50 plan with 12 gb of data (pretty
           | good deal for here). If I wanted to get a new iPhone 13, I'd
           | have to spend $300 up front (would be offset if i had an old
           | device to trade in), plus an additional $33/month for two
           | years, plus choose a plan that was at least $60 base. So I'd
           | get a "free" phone every two years (as long as I had an old
           | device to trade in every two years, and paid twice as much
           | per month).
           | 
           | I won't do these things, so I have just replaced my $300 all-
           | in phone from 4 years ago with a $400 all-in phone.
        
             | closetohome wrote:
             | Your description of that deal doesn't really add up. If
             | you're putting down $300 and paying $33/month, that's just
             | buying a phone.
        
               | SECProto wrote:
               | Yes, but if you have a two year old iPhone then they give
               | you a $300 credit for trading it in. And you're already
               | paying $95 a month (to cover your two year old phone), so
               | the monthly cost ends up being the same. And the only
               | alternative the salespersons will mention is buying the
               | iPhone outright for $1200. So people think they are
               | getting a deal (when they're actually just financing a
               | phone over two years with an overpriced plan)
        
             | eyelidlessness wrote:
             | That definitely feels like it falls under the spending too
             | much category, but I've only once financed a phone (should
             | be mine pretty soon I think!) and hope I never need to
             | again.
        
               | SECProto wrote:
               | That's fair, I just find that the number of people who
               | fall into that specific source of "spending too much"
               | makes it important to specify. Most providers bury the
               | actual phone cost somehow, and only focus on the monthly
               | total - normalizing people spending $100/month on cell
               | services
        
           | enlyth wrote:
           | I have a rule that I spend the most money on things I use the
           | most.
           | 
           | Mattresses, phones, computers, desks, chairs, etc. Is a
           | thousand dollars for a phone a lot? Well, depends on how you
           | look at it. I use it for more than an hour a day, every day,
           | so a 1000 dollars over two years for a device like that
           | doesn't seem insane to me. Comes out to about a $1.40 a day.
        
             | eyelidlessness wrote:
             | I have no rule but my heuristic is to spare no expense on
             | things that matter most to me, but to research them if I'm
             | not already sure what I want. That research often factors
             | in price because "spare no expense" can be absurd when it's
             | blind. Multiple orders of magnitude absurd when you're not
             | paying attention and think you have that lack of attention
             | available.
        
             | badpun wrote:
             | Being taxed $1.40 a day EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE doesn't
             | sound insignificant.
        
               | enlyth wrote:
               | To own my own pocket supercomputer that also functions as
               | a high quality photo/video camera? I'd gladly pay that
               | "tax". It's about the equivalent of one meal a month in a
               | restaurant.
        
             | vlunkr wrote:
             | I think that's a good thing to consider when making a
             | purchase, but it's also very one-dimensional.
             | 
             | To me 1000$ for a phone is a lot because it's only
             | marginally better than a 500$ phone.
             | 
             | Also phones are big liability. Odds are a good mattress or
             | chair will last ages. A phone lasts 2 to 3 years generally.
        
           | hattmall wrote:
           | So, are phones actually more powerful than computers? I know
           | obviously there's a scale, but my understanding is that x86
           | stuff is an entirely different league than anything built for
           | mobile. I wasn't really acutely aware of this until I started
           | building some small form factor entertainment systems. After
           | doing some research and testing I was getting far better
           | performance out of old model x86 Chromeboxes than even the
           | latest mobile hardware.
        
             | sgerenser wrote:
             | A15 in the iPhone SE is far faster than any atom-class CPU
             | which is what you typically find in a chromebook. On
             | JavaScript benchmarks it trades blows with 12th gen Intel
             | laptop CPUs.
        
             | eyelidlessness wrote:
             | My iPhone 13 Pro Max absolutely beats my 2019 MacBook Pro
             | 16" on several benchmarks. Subjectively it also very
             | readily remains useful and responsive for many tasks when
             | the same laptop doesn't for the same task.
        
           | ramraj07 wrote:
           | None of your reasons cover the hordes of people buying the
           | pro models when there's absolutely no reason to. Especially
           | in India. I live in an upper middle class apartment complex
           | and half the folks living here have a 13 Pro. It costs 60%
           | more if not higher here than in the US as well. You have to
           | be in the 99.5th percentile of salary earners to cover the
           | price of the phone in a single months salary.
           | 
           | It's all about image and prestige and that's one of the
           | biggest reasons nowadays if you ask me.
        
             | eyelidlessness wrote:
             | > None of your reasons cover the hordes of people buying
             | the pro models when there's absolutely no reason to.
             | 
             | I'm fairly certain the second item does?
        
         | _fat_santa wrote:
         | My suggestion is to buy them used. So far I've purchased ~4
         | Apple devices for family members on Swappa, each time I got a
         | pretty good discount over the new device. So while an SE is
         | $429 new, you can find one in mint condition on Swappa with 95%
         | battery health (the most important detail when buying a used
         | iOS device IMO) for $220, and if you're tight on cash and want
         | to really go cheap, buy one that's been scuffed up for around
         | $130.
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | The iPhone SE is in the high end of what I'll pay for a phone.
         | Sadly it's also the only smart phone available to me, as I
         | don't want an Android phone.
        
       | freetime2 wrote:
       | > The single camera, by the way, is very close to the main one on
       | the top models. Apple's marketing gives the impression that every
       | year the new iPhone cameras leave the old ones in the dust. The
       | truth is, I'm having a hard time distinguishing between the
       | photos of the iPhone SE, those from my girlfriend's iPhone 11 and
       | my iPhone 8.
       | 
       | It's a bit odd to compare the iPhone SE to the iPhone 11, and
       | then say it's the same as the "top models". The jump in image
       | quality and image processing is pretty significant from the
       | iPhone 11 to the iPhone 13, in my opinion. And video is
       | significantly improved, too. Maybe it's not something that
       | everyone would notice or care much about, but for me it was well
       | worth the upgrade.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | [quote] It is very likely that this is the last iPhone SE of its
       | kind, the last "iPhone with a button" ... The reception from
       | critics has been lukewarm and sales, apparently, below
       | expectations. That's a shame. [/quote]
       | 
       | That might be because people who really wanted a small phone
       | might have gone for the 12/13 mini which is even smaller. I never
       | considered the 8 "small".
        
         | rpgbr wrote:
         | Maybe, but mini version will be phased out in iPhone 14 lineup.
         | Besides, iPhone SE is way cheaper, and I suspect part of its
         | success is due to pricing.
        
           | JustSomeNobody wrote:
           | I'm one of the few who believe Apple will bring the mini back
           | as the next SE in a couple years.
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | Yeah, SE is the cheap one atm while the Minis are the small
           | ones. I got two Minis for the ladies of the house. Because
           | they wanted small phones.
           | 
           | Both the SE and the Mini sell pretty well by any other
           | company's standards except Apple, I think...
        
       | justinator wrote:
       | I have the last iPhone SE and it's great, except I have monsterly
       | large hands, and I shoulda thought about that before buying this
       | phone. Just paid it off, so that's nice for the ol' phone bill.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I got the iPhone 13 Mini. I suspect that it will be the last of
       | that form factor.
       | 
       | I use a first-gen SE (tiny screen) as my low-end test (iOS 14).
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | The only reason my spouse and I both bought 13 Minis is because
         | we suspected the same. We otherwise were fine to hold onto
         | X-gen iPhones for a little longer (despite their carrier-deck
         | screens). I hope we're all wrong about that "no more Minis"
         | thing, but if we aren't, it's going to be "cold dead hands"
         | time[0].
         | 
         | [0] As in, "pry it from my...", for those not familiar with the
         | saying.
        
         | skyyler wrote:
         | I don't see any reason to get rid of my 12 mini yet. I hope I
         | never will.
        
           | gandalfgreybeer wrote:
           | I'm on the same boat. I am considering getting the 13 mini
           | though since this seems like the last of this form factor for
           | a while.
        
         | freediver wrote:
         | Upgraded my 8 to it and not happy with it too.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | > _The single camera, by the way, is very close to the main one
       | on the top models. Apple's marketing gives the impression that
       | every year the new iPhone cameras leave the old ones in the dust.
       | The truth is, I'm having a hard time distinguishing between the
       | photos of the iPhone SE, those from my girlfriend's iPhone 11 and
       | my iPhone 8_
       | 
       | Probably true, but the 11 is not exactly the newest iPhone out
       | there. The 13 has noticeably better low-light performance, when I
       | compare it to my old 11 Pro. L
        
         | rpgbr wrote:
         | Yeah, it was the only one available here for a comparison.
         | 
         | Low light in the (only?) scenario on which iPhone SE's camera
         | really lags behind the more expensive iPhones. I can't
         | understand how Apple gave it the portrait mode, but not the
         | night/low light mode. It seems something dependent on processor
         | power, which it has plenty.
        
       | cnees wrote:
       | If they next WWDC keynote announced double the battery life and
       | half the weight, that would be great, but what would really
       | inspire me would be a brand deal with Levi's. If they could put
       | iPhone-compatible pockets in women's jeans... wow, what a future.
       | 
       | Even the SE is a tad too big for one hand for an average-height
       | woman (that is, me) and sticks out of most of my pockets, but
       | it's the best Apple has to offer me.
        
       | elxr wrote:
       | > in its entry model, low cost (USD 429).
       | 
       | The iPhone SE isn't "low cost" considering the alternatives from
       | android land, and the disappointing battery life. I think a big
       | reason this phone is so well liked on here is the general woeful
       | state of the budget, compact phone market.
       | 
       | With LG gone, Google Nexus gone, HTC gone, OnePlus's descent into
       | mediocrity, and Motorola churning out huge phone after huge
       | phone, options are slim. The new Zenfone 9 looks solid, but
       | that's a flagship phone. I hope they release a smaller, more-
       | budget focused version next.
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | The statement is correct. The iPhone SE is _Apple 's_ entry
         | model, low cost iPhone.
         | 
         | Absolutely, in the whole market it would probably be a mid-
         | range smartphone.
        
           | elxr wrote:
           | I agree with most of what you said. But the way "low" cost
           | (not "lower" cost, which is the wording I'd use) is used to
           | describe a $430 phone with these specs is a little
           | disingenuous to me. Maybe it's not that this thing is cheap,
           | but that spending $800+ on phones for the average person is
           | absolutely ridiculous.
           | 
           | It bothers me that Apple has so much mindshare among the
           | public that people only judge their phones/devices in
           | comparison to Apple devices, while ignoring any non-Apple
           | options.
        
             | sgjohnson wrote:
             | > It bothers me that Apple has so much mindshare among the
             | public that people only judge their phones/devices in
             | comparison to Apple devices, while ignoring any non-Apple
             | options.
             | 
             | There's actually a lot of hidden cost to switching
             | platforms. For me there are 2:
             | 
             | 1. I hate Google more than I hate Apple (irrelevant for
             | most people)
             | 
             | 2. I'm balls deep in Apple's ecosystem. Never mind the
             | hardware. All paid apps? Gone. All in-app purchases? Gone.
             | Everything you've bought on iTunes store? Difficult to
             | access.
        
         | rpgbr wrote:
         | Definitely low cost comparing to any other current iPhone. For
         | me, Android isn't an option (too deep into Apple ecosystem).
        
         | sgjohnson wrote:
         | > The iPhone SE isn't "low cost" considering the alternatives
         | from android land
         | 
         | It absolutely is. The cost is still relative to how much
         | marginally better flagships cost, not to how much a
         | significantly worse barely-smartphone costs.
        
       | geenew wrote:
       | The article mentions the ability to take pictures with blurry
       | backgrounds (aka bokeh).. fwiw, that feature exists on the SE 2nd
       | generation.
       | 
       | To join in the old-man-fist-shaking, the SE 1st generation was a
       | far better size. You can use the SE 2nd generation with one hand,
       | yes, but in practice it involves frequently double-light-tapping
       | the omni-button to slide the screen down halfway. (Or, maybe, I
       | just have small hands, IDK).
        
         | 0x38B wrote:
         | Text recognition in the camera also works on the 2020 iPhone
         | SE, along with blurred backgrounds in portrait mode.
        
       | WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
       | Can we just have a conversation about how my Pixel 4a's camera at
       | 4K gets smoked by an iPhone SE/iPhone 5 taking video at 1080p...
       | I'm not an iphone guy but I do keep one in my pocket for taking
       | video.
        
         | ascagnel_ wrote:
         | Google has long chosen cheaper, lower-quality camera sensors,
         | knowing that their still image processing is beyond what Apple
         | has on offer and will make up for any deficiencies. Apple tends
         | to go for more expensive, higher-quality camera sensors and
         | less software processing, and that is more clearly visible when
         | shooting video, where image processing requires more processing
         | power than what a phone is currently capable of.
        
           | WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
           | Damn it, Google.
        
         | kalleboo wrote:
         | When YouTubers use an Android camera to record some short clip
         | on-the-go, it's always so obvious - it usually has that obvious
         | "jello-vision" rolling shutter feel that old digital cameras
         | had. Meanwhile it took me ages to realize that Doug DeMuro uses
         | an iPhone for like half of his shots (only noticed due to the
         | characteristic green lens reflections)
        
       | christophilus wrote:
       | To everyone who is running old Android devices, do you just not
       | care about security updates, or is there something I'm missing?
       | Been thinking of switching from my dying iPhone 7 to a GrapheneOS
       | device, but the extremely short support window has given me
       | pause.
       | 
       | Also, any phone recommendations?
        
       | troorl wrote:
       | The original SE is still kicking. If not for the battery, I'd
       | stick to it for another 3-5 years.
        
       | thom wrote:
       | I upgraded to the 13 Pro Max from the 8 Plus and I'm still
       | annoyed several times a day by interactions that are strictly
       | worse without the touch sensor. Today it was because you used to
       | be able to unlock just by holding your phone with your thumb on
       | the sensor. But now you have to raise it to your face, hope it
       | works after a couple of goes with your sunglasses on, and then
       | even when it does you have to swipe up to see what you were last
       | looking at. It made checking a map on a webpage repeatedly feel
       | like torture. It's a tax on every single interaction with my
       | phone and while I love the storage and the screen I have thought
       | about ditching it.
        
         | cyberlurker wrote:
         | I also miss the fingerprint sensor. It's fast and effective. I
         | wish they would add it to the power button or if they can
         | improve the tech, under the screen.
        
         | easton wrote:
         | Driving in the car with a Face ID phone is a nightmare. You
         | hand it to the passenger to look at, it's locked, you have to
         | try to look at it while your driving, then if you get unlucky
         | and it locks you have to enter your passcode while you're
         | driving (I have an alphanumeric passcode and it's very hard to
         | enter if I'm not looking at the phone). Touch ID, I could just
         | plop my thumb on the home button without looking.
        
         | gameshot911 wrote:
         | You're right, unlocking the phone every single time you want to
         | interact with it _is_ exceedingly tedious.
         | 
         | Which is why I remove the FaceID/passcode completely. The
         | overall improvement to my QoL is well worth the increased risk.
         | And all my truly sensitive apps are passcode protected, anyway.
        
           | paulmd wrote:
           | There is also the middle ground of a lock timeout - if you
           | use your phone more than, say, once an hour, it'll never
           | lock, but if you drop it on the ground and it sits there for
           | an hour it'll be locked if someone finds it.
        
           | yazaddaruvala wrote:
           | This would change my life! FaceId protect specific Apps +
           | Settings.
           | 
           | Let guests (or myself) use Google Maps, Calculator, etc
           | without a lock screen.
        
         | neither_color wrote:
         | I have a magic keyboard with TouchID and it's made me really
         | nostalgic for phones with TouchID. Never need to tilt my head
         | or raise my hand to log into anything anymore.
        
       | wanderr wrote:
       | I use my phone extensively throughout the day but modern phones
       | are good enough for most things. All I want is an excellent
       | camera built in, the higher optical zoom the better. It can be
       | the most boring thing in the world otherwise. I hate that I
       | always must shell out for a flagship phone to get this. Sure, I
       | have a really nice camera too, but the best camera is the one you
       | have on you and it's not practical to lug around something extra
       | at all times.
        
       | kringo wrote:
       | I love the box design of iPhone 12/13 mini, otherwise would have
       | gone for this!
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | I bought a Mini with great excitement, thinking that it would
       | take me back to the glory of the "my phone fits my my pocket and
       | I can type with one hand" days.
       | 
       | I kept it for 3 months, and then traded it in for a Pro. It turns
       | out that the world has moved on. Web pages are getting harder to
       | read on small screens. I had to squint a lot. The phone's short
       | height means that it often doesn't charge "vertically" in Qi
       | chargers. It doesn't fit in my car's integrated phone holder, it
       | just rattles around.
       | 
       | And I really missed the zoom lens.
       | 
       | So I'm OK with the Pro, and I will get used to slightly larger
       | phones.
       | 
       | (The "Max" is still stupid.)
        
         | sircastor wrote:
         | I've got a 12 mini and I'm quite happy with it. I admit that I
         | don't charge it wirelessly because I have a snap ring on the
         | back. I'm disappointed that the form factor is dead going
         | forward.
        
         | Swizec wrote:
         | I love my 13 mini and it's easily my favorite iPhone since the
         | 5.
         | 
         | The only thing missing is the zoom. Wish they replaced the
         | useless 0.5x lens with the 2x. Everything else about this phone
         | is perfect
        
           | Bud wrote:
           | The 0.5x is far more useful than the 2x. Most of the things
           | one would do with the 2x can be had by just walking a bit
           | closer to the subject. Or by just shooting at 1x and
           | cropping, since there's resolution to spare.
           | 
           | But the 0.5x very frequently enables indoor shots that are
           | impossible to get otherwise. Because you can't back up for a
           | wider view if you're next to a wall.
           | 
           | Apple chose well.
        
             | Swizec wrote:
             | > Most of the things one would do with the 2x can be had by
             | just walking a bit closer to the subject
             | 
             | Except for the main reason I ever used it: depth of field
             | and more natural proportions.
             | 
             | Digital zoom can't do that and no portrait mode is not the
             | same.
             | 
             | On my old phone I would often switch to 2x and walk _away_
             | from the subject to get a better photo.
             | 
             | Here's a good example of how faces change when shot with
             | different focal lengths: https://imgur.io/gallery/ZKTWi
        
         | theshrike79 wrote:
         | > (The "Max" is still stupid.)
         | 
         | The Max is only stupid if you're in the "phone is a phone"
         | group.
         | 
         | For the "my phone is my main computing device" people it's a
         | really good device.
        
         | jen729w wrote:
         | 13 Mini lover here. I find the small screen an advantage,
         | because it makes me less likely to look at web pages on it. I'm
         | actively trying to use my phone less, while not pretending that
         | living modern life without a phone is essentially impossible.
         | 
         | When I do succumb to my own weakness and look at something on
         | the tiny screen, I often think, meh, this isn't great, just do
         | something else!
        
           | mjamesaustin wrote:
           | ^Yes, this! Got a mini too as part of my mission to reduce
           | phone time. I still use it plenty, and haven't once missed
           | having a bigger screen.
        
           | skaber wrote:
           | Fully agree with you. I need the practicality of a smartphone
           | but want to reduce screen time. The 13 mini forces me to use
           | my laptop if I want to read or perform a task.
        
         | MrScruff wrote:
         | Another 13 Mini user here and I love it. Upgraded from a 6s and
         | I was shocked to see the size inflation. First thing I want
         | from my phone is for it to comfortably fit into my pocket. Also
         | single hand usage. The actual screen estate is pretty close to
         | the 6s so I don't feel like I've lost anything.
        
         | greenthrow wrote:
         | > The "Max" is still stupid.
         | 
         | It's a lazy, bad name but it is objectively a great product. It
         | is extremely successful.
         | 
         | Dismissing it because it doesn't work for you is as absurd as
         | dismissing shoes too big for you or pants made from a material
         | you don't like. Other people do, the world is not about you.
        
           | rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote:
           | Ironic how you point out the subjectivity of what a likable
           | phone is while also saying how the Pro Max is _objectively_
           | great, lol. By the end of the day the person that you're
           | replying to is just expressing an opinion, which is allowed.
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | Why did you go for a Pro over a regular iPhone 13 (for
         | example).
         | 
         | I'm trying to workout which one to get, way too many options in
         | 2022.
         | 
         | I do a lot of outdoor stuff, not sure if I want the weight of
         | the pro, is it worth it?
        
           | ZephyrBlu wrote:
           | Pro has 120hz refresh rate vs 60hz for the regular.
        
           | hgazx wrote:
           | I'm not sure when the 14 will be released but I would wait if
           | you can. It will be better at (most likely) the same price
           | tag.
        
           | LeoPanthera wrote:
           | > Why did you go for a Pro over a regular iPhone 13 (for
           | example).
           | 
           | The zoom lens. Worth the price alone.
        
           | batiudrami wrote:
           | As above and 6GB memory not 4GB. The processor is fast enough
           | that it will be good for 5+ years with a battery replacement
           | midway, but the 4GB ram might end up hurting before that.
        
             | alx__ wrote:
             | > processor is fast enough that it will be good for 5+
             | years
             | 
             | This is how I feel, 3 years later, after getting the 11 Pro
             | in 2019. If I do upgrade this year, I'll give it to my dad,
             | and he'll probably use it till it breaks :)
        
         | shp0ngle wrote:
         | I love my 13 mini, but the battery is really bad. It's really
         | noticeable, especially coming from XR.
        
           | easton wrote:
           | I know this is all anecdotal, but my 13 mini lasts
           | consistently longer than my 8 ever did and I'm super happy
           | with the battery. I've never had it not make it through a
           | day, even when GPS and brightness is cranked with the Disney
           | World app (which is why I had to carry a battery with my 8
           | when I went there). Makes me wonder how long the Xr battery
           | would last with my workload.
        
             | shp0ngle wrote:
             | Well, XR regularly lasted about 2 days for me. I didn't
             | have to think about charging almost at all.
        
         | nebula8804 wrote:
         | I use the Anker magnetic car mount and it works like a dream
         | for the Mini. I think it successfully attached 100% of the
         | time?
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | I love how pocketable my 13 mini is. When I first got it, I
         | would be walking around and not remember if it was in my pocket
         | or not -- it's that light/small. My prior phone was an 11 Pro,
         | which had a nice heft to it but was sometimes difficult to push
         | into my pants pocket (especially when sitting). The 13 mini
         | slides in easily, no matter the angle.
         | 
         | I do wonder if the battery will hold up over time, especially
         | as I start going to conferences and other all-day events. It
         | was a non-issue during the first year, when I was almost always
         | at home.
        
         | aeharding wrote:
         | My favorite part of the 13 mini is the wallet fits so
         | satisfyingly. It was made for it.
        
         | BolexNOLA wrote:
         | Hey as a film/television guy the max is a dream. Don't discount
         | it completely just because it's not for you!
        
         | petercooper wrote:
         | I have luckily had the opposite experience. I've always had the
         | biggest phone I could get (Pro Max and all the rest) but
         | decided to try the 13 Mini after hearing so many good things.
         | Given how fussy I usually am, it's been amazing. The pros
         | outweigh any cons for me, but it seems the Mini is going the
         | way of the dodo in future anyway and the SE really is a step
         | too far down for me.
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | > the SE really is a step too far down for me
           | 
           | Down? What does the mini have that the SE doesn't?
        
             | idle_zealot wrote:
             | Magsafe, Face Id, nearly full-screen display, and a better
             | camera array (I think?).
        
               | ginko wrote:
               | >Face Id
               | 
               | I switched from an iphone 7 to a 13 mini and I dearly
               | miss touch ID. It worked a lot better than face id IMO.
               | When the new SE was announced just months after I got the
               | mini I was pretty bummed.
        
               | OriginalPenguin wrote:
               | Also uwb for Air tags.
        
             | kasey_junk wrote:
             | For me, and this is irritating, magsafe. All my other
             | devices have it and the peripherals are better with it.
             | 
             | I agonized over this dumb thing but am terribly happy with
             | my mini, in ways I haven't been since the original SE.
        
           | massysett wrote:
           | Just hold on to your current phone. I upgraded to the 13 mini
           | from the 7 Plus expecting it to be faster. It isn't. I'm
           | still glad I upgraded because the mini is smaller than the 7
           | Plus while giving up only a little bit of screen size, and I
           | can use it without a case because it's not shaped like a bar
           | of soap.
           | 
           | But this showed me that phone performance is no longer a
           | reason to upgrade, so I'll probably hold on to this one even
           | longer than I kept the 7 Plus.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | BolexNOLA wrote:
             | I'm not sure how you could say the 13 isn't faster than the
             | 7. That seems like a perception/expectations issue.
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | What do you do on your phone that the 13 mini isn't faster
             | than the 7 Plus? I've had both of these phones -- the 13 is
             | my daily driver, and I have the 7 plugged into a TV as a
             | media hub. While it isn't unbearably slow, it's noticeably
             | slower than the 13 for pretty much everything.
        
               | massysett wrote:
               | I know that objectively speaking the chip in the 13 is
               | leaps and bounds faster. But in my daily use I don't see
               | it. Safari is no faster. Maps is no faster. Some apps
               | like Sonos still have startup time.
               | 
               | Probably the apps I use just aren't CPU bound, or they
               | need other optimizations to make them faster. Which
               | probably makes me like most people. My wife is still
               | happily using an iPhone 8 and she will probably replace
               | it only when it completely goes out. Since phones are so
               | durable now--the home button doesn't even wear out--that
               | might take years more.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | Interesting! Makes me want to go do a speed test to see
               | where the biggest differences are One app that comes to
               | mind is Camera, which is super fast to load on the newer
               | phones. When taking photos of babies/toddlers, load time
               | is important! But you're right that some apps probably
               | have similar load times across devices because the
               | weakest link is a web connection (Google Nest, looking at
               | you...).
        
         | rabuse wrote:
         | I love the size of my mini. It's perfect for one handed
         | operation.
        
         | fossuser wrote:
         | I have the 13 mini and love it - I'm sad it'll be the last one
         | for a long time. The 12 was great too, but the battery life hit
         | was noticeable- the 13 fixed that.
         | 
         | I would prefer the telephoto lens to the the warped wide angle
         | (which I find useless). I also miss out on the high refresh
         | rate display (for the 12 year none of the phones had it).
         | 
         | The mini is probably my favorite iPhone design of all time.
         | It's basically a 5 (my previous favorite) with a full screen
         | display.
         | 
         | It's a shame we'll lose a small phone that doesn't compromise
         | on features this year - I don't want an SE.
        
           | jrib wrote:
           | if apple would have moved to usb-c, I would have jumped ship
           | to the iphone 13 mini when I needed a phone. Sad that they
           | won't be making them for a while.
        
             | Bud wrote:
             | Out of curiosity, why? USB-C offers no marked improvements
             | over Lightning, none whatsoever, plus it's more fragile and
             | the port size is significantly larger.
        
               | InefficientRed wrote:
               | Travel. Travel. Travel.
               | 
               | Having everything USB-C just makes travel so much easier.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | I travel a lot and "having everything USB C" didn't help.
               | 
               | I had:
               | 
               | - a USB C cord that only supports power but up to 100W
               | 
               | - a USB C cord that supports power up to 60W and data at
               | USB2 speeds. But didn't work with my USB C powered
               | portable display. Because it didn't support video.
               | 
               | - a USB C cord that only supported power up to 60W and
               | data and video.
               | 
               | I'm usually traveling with:
               | 
               | - My MacBook Pro 16 inch (USB C)
               | 
               | - Mouse/Keyboard (lightning)
               | 
               | - iPad Air 3rd Gen (lightning)
               | 
               | - iPhone 12 (lightning)
               | 
               | - AirPods Pro (lightning)
               | 
               | - Beats Flex (they hang around my neck and I don't have
               | to worry about them falling out on the plane if I dose
               | off) USB C
               | 
               | - a four in one wireless charger that I sit by my bed at
               | the hotel. (USB C).
               | 
               | - a Anker battery pack (USB-C)
               | 
               | - portable monitor (USB C)
               | 
               | - Watch - weird Apple proprietary wireless charging.
               | 
               | But now I only travel with these cords for most of my
               | devices:
               | 
               | Female USB A/USB C on one end and USB C/lightning on the
               | other end. They support data up to 480Mbps and power up
               | to 60W. They are $13.00. They are cheap and not too
               | thick.
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092ZT8CJ9
               | 
               | But for a truly "universal cable", I have three of these:
               | 
               | - Female USB A/USB C on one end
               | 
               | - lightning, USB C, and Micro USB on the other end
               | 
               | - 10GBps data transfer
               | 
               | - supports video over USB C
               | 
               | - Supports charging up to 100W.
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B093YVRHMB
               | 
               | They are like $35 and are much thicker and a little
               | unwieldy and I don't _need_ them just for charging
               | anything but my computer and connecting my secondary
               | display.
               | 
               | BTW, this is my portable USB Monitor
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095GG31KX/
               | 
               | I can't use my iPad as a second monitor using the native
               | ability in MacOs because of corporate software. I found
               | out later that I could use Duet.
        
               | coder543 wrote:
               | If you're just going to declare all of that to be
               | factual, what response should anyone give? If there is
               | "no improvement, none whatsoever" then obviously
               | Lightning should win! But that's not the case at all.
               | 
               | Lightning places the springs inside the port, instead of
               | on the cable. So, when the springs wear out, you need a
               | new phone instead of a new cable.
               | 
               | Lightning directly exposes the pins on the cable to the
               | environment and corrosion, which is not a better design
               | for durability and longevity.
               | 
               | I have no idea where you're getting the idea that USB-C
               | is more fragile than Lightning. It isn't, although this
               | seems to be a persistent belief. All evidence I've seen
               | points to the opposite conclusion, at least as far as the
               | port is concerned, and everyone should care a lot more
               | about the port than the cable. Ports are much more
               | expensive to replace than cables. We're also not talking
               | about the flimsy microUSB connector, which was rife with
               | problems.
               | 
               | The USB-C port has also been repeatedly proven to be
               | small enough to fit into the current crop of iPhones, so
               | why does the minuscule difference in size matter? It
               | isn't the limiting factor for anything.
               | 
               | But, none of that really matters. What matters is that
               | approximately all of my other devices use USB-C, but I
               | have to either carry around a Lightning cable or a
               | wireless charger just for my phone. Why? It's incredibly
               | annoying to need yet another type of cable, and Lightning
               | isn't better at _anything_. If Lightning was so much
               | better, Apple should have pushed for it to become the
               | standard instead of USB-C, as Apple has been part of the
               | USB-IF for a very long time, and Apple would have used it
               | on their laptops instead of USB-C... but they didn 't do
               | either of those things. Even Apple is moving away from
               | Lightning, first on their iPads, but it is clear they're
               | going to do this across the board over time.
               | 
               | Even worse, Lightning is limited to USB 2.0 speeds on
               | iPhone. Apple introduces iPhones with a terabyte of
               | storage and the ability to record _massive_ 4k ProRes
               | video files... but how are you supposed to get those
               | multi-gigabyte files onto a computer for editing?
               | Lightning at slower-than-WiFi speeds? WiFi at 600Mbps
               | instead of USB-C at 10Gbps? None of it makes any sense.
               | 
               | It is _way_ past time for Apple to switch the iPhone to
               | USB-C, but it apparently won 't happen until next year.
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | > Lightning places the springs inside the port, instead
               | of on the cable. So, when the springs wear out, you need
               | a new phone instead of a new cable.
               | 
               | In practice I've never had a Lightning port fail while
               | the USB-C port on my Macbook loosened so much that it
               | wouldn't hold any cable.
        
               | jrib wrote:
               | Even without any improvement, I don't want to have to
               | worry about having multiple cords for my phone. I charge
               | my phone at night while I sleep, so as long as it charges
               | fully in a couple of hours, that's "good enough" in
               | exchange for the convenience of a single cord.
        
             | fossuser wrote:
             | Rumor is the next iPhone will be usb type c, but I thought
             | they'd just remove the port entirely.
        
           | jacobyoder wrote:
           | Was on the fence last year between a 12 mini and the latest
           | SE (which this article is about, I think).
           | 
           | I somewhat regret the 12 mini, not because of the size (or
           | even battery - it's fine for my daily use), but the face ID.
           | As others have said, it's just too interruptive. (well, they
           | didn't say that word exactly, but it's what I think).
           | 
           | Rumors I'd read last year would be that a 13 or 14 would have
           | a 'button' underneath the glass screen, so we'd effectively
           | have a 'home' button without the need for a physical button.
           | Not in the 13, and I've not heard about it in the 14 (yet?)
           | but would welcome that. The touch-id flow I had grown used to
           | was so ... useful and fluid. Part of the reason I don't think
           | I recognized it as much was 2020/2021 - so much of my regular
           | life was thrown out of whack (travel/meetings/etc) that the
           | impact of moving to face ID wasn't all that noticeable. As
           | we're 'returning to normal' more and more, and I'm 'out'
           | more, the day to day impact is more noticeable.
        
             | tass wrote:
             | I just picked up a 13 mini and this is what would push me
             | over the edge to return it. I keep having to take my
             | sunglasses off to make it recognise me.
             | 
             | If a 14 mini came out with Touch ID I'd be all over it, but
             | for now I think I'm going back to the SE.
        
       | recursivedoubts wrote:
       | Right phone.
       | 
       | Wrong edition.
       | 
       | 1st gen SE forever.
        
       | tomduncalf wrote:
       | I miss 3D Touch too! Great feature but awkwardly integrated and
       | promoted
        
       | rejor121 wrote:
       | Apple is missing out by not placing a fingerprint reader on the
       | apple logo on the back of the case. So stupid.
       | 
       | Masks are still a thing, and while I have a 12 mini, it doesn't
       | open with my masked face (although it's fine when I'm wearing
       | sunglasses, weirdly enough). The fact that it _can_ open with a
       | masked face makes me question the security of face detection.
       | 
       | I want my fingerprint sensor back. Masks will not be going away (
       | corona resurgence and potentially a monkey pox pandemic anyone? )
       | 
       | To this end, I think the SE is a great phone, outside of its
       | size. It should be smaller. Hell, the 12 mini could've been even
       | smaller but no dice.
       | 
       | I'll probably not buy another phone until a much smaller one is
       | released. I will even go to Android based phones if one releases
       | in three or four years
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | It's not like there are plenty of small androids around... It
         | seems that the best phone today is SE (old model with iPhone 4
         | design). Not sure if it's still supported or sold, but it
         | should be powerful enough to support calls and sms with enough
         | frame rate.
        
         | baisq wrote:
         | Masks have gone away already. It's time to move on. Monkeypox
         | requires you to wear a mask on your ass, so that won't
         | interfere with FaceID operation.
        
       | tantalor wrote:
       | > retained the same design of the 2014's iPhone 6
       | 
       | Too bad they didn't retain the design of the 2013 iPhone SE,
       | which was better.
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | 1st SE was 2016.
         | 
         | But it is in fact a fantastic design. Still am using mine. :)
        
         | rpgbr wrote:
         | Yes! Although I think by today's standards most of apps would
         | be cramped in that little screen.
        
         | prodent wrote:
         | The design of the first iPhone SE (which came out it 2016) is
         | that of the iPhone 5 (which came out in 2012).
        
         | als0 wrote:
         | It really is the best. People would come up to me and say "wow,
         | you have a _classic_ iPhone". Now I'm just waiting for Apple to
         | release an iPhone Classic!
        
       | tambourine_man wrote:
       | I'll have to give up on my original SE as it won't support iOS
       | 16. But it's the best phone I ever had. The others look comically
       | large. And Touch ID is awesome.
        
       | ppjim wrote:
       | To me, SE stands for "Steve's Edition".
        
         | wyclif wrote:
         | Steve Jobs was right about the size of the iPhone.
        
       | badpun wrote:
       | The phone is great, but the form factor is terrible. The phone is
       | slippery, hard to pick up and hard to hold in hand. It's such a
       | "looks over function" failure on Apple's part. No wonder that,
       | with iPhone 13, they eventually went back to the old design (with
       | right angles instead of all the slippery roundiness). No we have
       | to wait another 5 years till that form factor trickles down to
       | the SE line.
        
         | elzbardico wrote:
         | The ironic part was when android manufacturers started
         | mimicking this design; it was a factor in making me go back to
         | the iPhone. I have had my current one for over a year, and the
         | only falls it ever suffered were from my pocket in some pants
         | when I sit in my office chair and start lazily reclining. If it
         | ever slipped from my hand, it was so rare that I can't
         | remember.
        
       | wackget wrote:
       | The best is still the 6s because it has a 3.5mm headphone jack.
        
       | mauvehaus wrote:
       | The problem with the new SE is that it comes on the heels of the
       | old SE. My first smartphone was a 2nd gen SE that I bought around
       | July 2020. I plan on keeping it as long as I kept my previous
       | dumbphones: 4-6 years (i.e. however long the battery lasts). If
       | they keep releasing SE's at the current pace, my next phone will
       | be a 4th or 5th generation SE. There is literally no feature they
       | could add that would entice me to replace it before then.
       | 
       | I'll allow that battery life might sway me to pull the trigger
       | after 3-4 years, but barring that my phone more than meets my
       | needs as-is.
       | 
       | Know your customers, folks.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | On the other hand, the delta between the resale price of an old
         | SE and the purchase price of a new one makes upgrades very
         | cheap.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | aronhegedus wrote:
       | I agree! I stopped getting iPhones because I thought 1000PS was
       | too much when a google pixel was 300PS. However I got the SE for
       | 500, which I thought was fair, and I love that it's just simple,
       | no messing around with 3 cameras etc
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | Tbh you don't really notice the amount of camera's (my iPhone
         | 12 mini is my first iPhone and my first phone with > 1 camera,
         | I also got it because I like smaller, good Phones.), it
         | switches automatically when zooming.
        
       | phplovesong wrote:
       | Still think the best iPhone ever made was the 4S. Back then, mac
       | products still were 100% focused. Since jobs, things are getting
       | worse. Stability has gone down, and focus is mostly in
       | "unnecessary" features.
        
       | asciiresort wrote:
       | I'm literally sitting at the Apple store waiting for my newly
       | purchased IPhone SE to sync to the cloud, opened up my laptop and
       | saw this.
       | 
       | I was deliberating whether to buy the IPhone 13, but with the
       | IPhone 14 coming out next month, the IPhone SE is a good
       | temporary phone. It's less than half the price of the IPhone 13
       | Pro, so it was a no brainer.
        
       | throwaway378037 wrote:
       | 100. Knew I wasn't alone on this!
        
       | simonmorg wrote:
       | Great writing. I just feel a new design is needed. I feel the
       | constant movement between straight edges and curved is annoying
       | and costly for the end user.
        
       | ibudiallo wrote:
       | I bought a OnePlus 3 when it was the cool underdog phone for
       | $450. That was 6 years ago. After 5.5 years the battery started
       | draining faster than usual so I replaced it. The only reason I
       | had to switch phones was because my children chewed and drooled
       | all over it, destroying the volume buttons.
       | 
       | With such a solid phone, I went back to oneplus to get the latest
       | and greatest. So much has changed in this time spam. In their
       | latest phone, they don't even have the alert slider. I
       | reluctantly got the 9 pro.
       | 
       | Longer version: https://idiallo.com/blog/oneplus3-6-years-later
        
         | ranger207 wrote:
         | I still have my OnePlus 3T, my first Android (coming from
         | Windows Phone, RIP). Running Lineage and microg, although all
         | but only a couple of apps are from F-Droid. I haven't seen any
         | need to upgrade yet
        
       | desertraven wrote:
       | I have had my iPhone 6S for six years now, and it's still going
       | strong. I've replaced the battery a couple of times and the
       | screen more than a couple. I can do everything I need with it,
       | and it's the perfect size. So I have no desire to upgrade until I
       | must.
        
         | clairity wrote:
         | i have a 6S and only had 1 battery change, and that was on
         | apple, since mine was recalled for a defective battery problem.
         | 
         | as noted in my other comment, i'd be ok with a full screen
         | version of this phone if they put the home button on the side
         | and keep the fingerprint scanner (in button or in screen) and
         | leave off the front facing camera (pinhole camera is acceptable
         | too, but not a notch). i'd prefer to keep the headphone jack,
         | but that's probably asking too much of apple.
        
           | Crosseye_Jack wrote:
           | > i'd prefer to keep the headphone jack, but that's probably
           | asking too much of apple.
           | 
           | Yeah the headphone jack being removed pissed me off too.
           | However the lighting to 3.5mm adaptor isn't as bad as I
           | thought it would be. Sure it was an extra PS9 I wish I didn't
           | have to spend, but was also a figure that I didn't lose any
           | sleep over when ordering it.
           | 
           | The adaptor just lives on my headphones as I use a differnt
           | pair at my desk. The only reservation about it now is "Will
           | it fray like all other apple cables do with time?"
           | 
           | EDIT: Also had a 6s. Had 2 battery changes and the phone was
           | due for a 3rd before recently just swapping the phone. First
           | was done by Apple for free (excluding the cost of travelling
           | to the Apple store and turning it into a shopping day :-P),
           | the other I did myself at home with a 3rd party battery.
        
             | DennisP wrote:
             | Holding onto my 6s as long as I can, because of the
             | headphone jack. My headphones are kind of expensive. I also
             | plug them into my laptop. If I'm putting an adapter on and
             | off all the time I'll keep losing adapters, but I'd rather
             | not buy a second pair of nice headphones.
        
               | Crosseye_Jack wrote:
               | A silicone tether like the ones you can get for the cap
               | on the Apple Pencil. Yeah another item you shouldn't
               | need. But it would keep the adapter tethered to the cable
               | so you won't lose it as you swap between phone and
               | laptop.
        
             | clairity wrote:
             | yah, headphone jack isn't a deal killer, but i do like
             | having it. an adapter is ok but not great.
        
           | FearlessNebula wrote:
           | You'd rather have big iPhone 6s bezels than a notch? I agree
           | that a hole punch is preferable to a notch. I really wish
           | they'd put a fingerprint scanner in the Apple logo on the
           | back of the phone.
        
             | clairity wrote:
             | i don't want the bezels, but it's what i have, and the
             | notch is just as unappealing to me, along with faceID and
             | no home button. i'm hoping to skip the notch when i
             | upgrade.
             | 
             | the back would be ok, but one of the reasons i like the
             | side button with fingerprint sensor (or in-screen) is that
             | it can be face up on a surface and you can still actuate
             | the sensor. it's not that big a difference, but it is
             | slightly better UX.
             | 
             | i also like the fingerprint version over faceID because
             | it's not 2 steps to open the phone most of the time, but
             | still gives you the option to see the preview screen when
             | desired (pressing the home button with the
             | fingernail/fingertip).
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | The 6S is now out of software update range. You need at least
         | an 8 for iOS 16.
         | 
         | Within two years most apps will probably stop supporting iOS 15
         | so you'll start having issues.
         | 
         | It's obviously served you great, but it might be time. And the
         | difference in performance (CPU and camera) will floor you. Plus
         | wireless charging is awesome.
        
           | johnfernow wrote:
           | > Within two years most apps will probably stop supporting
           | iOS 15 so you'll start having issues.
           | 
           | Some might, but I don't think most will, and I feel overall
           | there's a fair chance they may not run into many problems.
           | Let's look at the top 20 apps' iOS requirements for their
           | latest app version: - ZOOM - iOS 8.0 - TikTok - iOS 10.0 -
           | Disney+ - iOS 14.0 - YouTube - iOS 12.0 - Instagram - iOS
           | 12.4 - Facebook - iOS 13.4 - Snapchat - iOS 12.0 - Messenger
           | - iOS 11.0 - Gmail - iOS 13.0 - Cash App - iOS 13.0 - Amazon
           | Shopping - iOS 13.0 - Netflix - iOS 14.0 - Google Maps - iOS
           | 13.4 - DoorDash - iOS 14.0 - Spotify - iOS 13.0 - Widgetsmith
           | - iOS 14.0 - WhatsApp - iOS 12.0 - Venmo - iOS 13.0 - Google
           | - iOS 14.0 - Google Meet - iOS 13.0
           | 
           | So 7 of these apps can have their latest version run on the
           | iPhone 5S (iOS 12), which released nearly 9 years ago and
           | hasn't received a major update in almost 4 years. None of
           | these apps require the latest version of iOS, and only 4 of
           | them require the second most recent version of iOS.
           | 
           | However, many if not most of these apps will allow you to
           | download an older version if you aren't running the latest
           | iOS version, and it will often continue to work.
           | Realistically, most people probably won't care if their Gmail
           | app is running an old version if it still works.
           | 
           | > It's obviously served you great, but it might be time.
           | 
           | If it becomes an issue, they can upgrade at that time if they
           | feel it is necessary. I don't see any reason to upgrade
           | prematurely though.
           | 
           | Yes, in theory their device will be insecure once it stops
           | receiving updates. In practice, I'm aware of exceptionally
           | few people who have been infected by a virus on an
           | unsupported iPhone. They can disable JavaScript in the
           | browser if they want to be extra secure (not that that
           | mitigates all vulnerabilities, but unless they're notably
           | rich, famous or powerful, they're probably unlikely to be
           | targeted.)
        
             | desertraven wrote:
             | I have a similar outlook, in that I'll upgrade when forced.
             | Even now I sometimes encounter apps that won't run on the
             | phone, but they're yet to be so essential to warrant an
             | upgrade.
        
           | temende wrote:
           | > It's obviously served you great, but it might be time.
           | 
           | Isn't it sad that there has to be a "time" to upgrade? Why
           | can't phones be like refrigerators or microwaves where if you
           | don't care about the latest features you can just buy them
           | once and keep them for 20+ years?
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | Original SE for me, also six years old. One screen replacement,
         | original battery.
         | 
         | Only things I'd change about it if I could would be more space
         | and a better camera.
         | 
         | I suppose the OS upgrade treadmill will move on sometime in the
         | next year and I'll have no choice but to replace something
         | that's otherwise perfectly serviceable, and it's too bad there
         | will be nothing with a headphone jack.
        
           | JudasGoat wrote:
           | As someone in the same situation, I plan on keepng the SE as
           | a music player after it loses support.
        
         | MrScruff wrote:
         | I was holding out with my 6s until a month ago but finally
         | jumped ship to a 13 mini. It's a great upgrade. Unfortunately
         | staying on an old iOS version isn't possible since apps will
         | start requiring iOS 16 at some point.
        
         | temende wrote:
         | Just wondering, how much did it cost to get the battery and
         | screen replaced? And did you do it via Apple or a third-party
         | repair shop?
        
           | ljosa wrote:
           | Apple's battery replacement service is about $50 including
           | shipping. Took a little less than a week for me.
        
             | temende wrote:
             | Interesting, $50 isn't too bad. What did you do while your
             | phone was gone for repairs? Did they give you a loaner?
        
               | selectodude wrote:
               | They will give you a loaner but I think the vast majority
               | of Americans live close enough to an Apple Store where
               | they'll swap the battery in 30-60 minutes. I pop in, drop
               | the phone off, go fuck off for a beer or two, come back
               | to a fresh new battery. Super straightforward.
        
               | temende wrote:
               | > I think the vast majority of Americans live close
               | enough to an Apple Store
               | 
               | I don't, which is I why I was asking haha.
        
           | desertraven wrote:
           | I actually did it myself with instructions online. The screen
           | is a bit of a pain because everything sits on top of the
           | screen, so every component need to be removed and then
           | reinstalled on the new screen. Battery is only 10 minutes.
           | 
           | As for how much, I think $20 for battery, $50 for screen
           | (iirc)
        
             | temende wrote:
             | That's impressive! I would never trust myself to repair my
             | own hardware haha.
        
         | FearlessNebula wrote:
         | Well the "must" is arriving this fall unfortunately. The 6s is
         | not going to receive iOS 16. It had a really good run though, I
         | believe the longest of any iPhone so far but I figure it's only
         | going to keep getting longer now that they stopped being so
         | stingy with RAM
        
       | nebula8804 wrote:
       | As someone who held onto the iPhone 5S for years after its EOL
       | and then held onto the iPhone SE first gen for as long as
       | possible (until a cracked screen and second shot battery forced
       | an upgrade) I can confidently say this guy is missing out.
       | 
       | I held on to the old phone because of my thinking of the
       | "stability and perfection" of its old design.
       | 
       | I avoided the iPhone 6/7/8/SEv2 era like the plague because of
       | just how unfinished it _felt_. It was slippery, it felt
       | uncomfortable in the hand, and I hear it was not the best at
       | repairability. It also just does not look good in my opinion.
       | 
       | At the time THAT phone felt like the one was was unfinished. Now
       | this guy is saying its the one that is "like a well-finished
       | product". Its the same design that I felt was unfinished. I
       | conclude that this talk of finished vs unfinished design is just
       | a matter of taste and perception. There is nothing that
       | fundamentally changed from iPhone 8 vs iPhone SEv2/3. It still
       | inherits my complaints from above.
       | 
       | In reality he just hasn't put in the time to give the iPhone 13
       | and iPhone 13 mini designs an honest chance. They are the current
       | "unfinished" designs. A few years down the line he will be saying
       | the same thing about that design once it comes out in iPhone SE
       | v4(or 5/6/7 whatever).
       | 
       | Now to be fair there is something great about small cheap phones
       | that pack a lot of value. It is just what it is. Last gen design
       | that some prefer while others do not. Its not anything special
       | nor "perfected".
        
         | JansjoFromIkea wrote:
         | Switched from iPhone SE 2016 to an iPhone Mini, tbh the loss of
         | touch ID alone was enough to mean it felt like a big quality of
         | life drop. Less so now that I don't have to be wearing a mask
         | so often but still feels significantly worse and I'd happily
         | trade some screen space for it.
         | 
         | I suspect a big chunk of why the SE is still around with its
         | current design is a concern of how put off some older users may
         | be from having to adjust to a less consistent unlocking system.
        
           | nebula8804 wrote:
           | Its been 5 years since FaceID came out. My bet is on the fact
           | that they need a low cost model in the lineup and they still
           | have the old tooling for the iPhone 8 series so TouchID just
           | happens to be there. Apple is not the type of company that
           | keeps legacy things around if they can help it regardless of
           | how some users might feel.
        
         | rpgbr wrote:
         | Even though I really like the SE, obviously there are infinite
         | ways to make a good phone. Turns out this old one works for me,
         | plus it's cheap, really fast, and I'm used to it -- what else
         | can I ask for a phone?
         | 
         | Pricing is a very strong factor here, I have to say. Brazil
         | almost always tops the "more expensive iPhone in the world"
         | lists. SE's price is really fair, kind of an outlier in Apple's
         | lineup.
        
           | nebula8804 wrote:
           | It seems like pricing is the only real factor there based on
           | what I am seeing in the article. If the Mini design was the
           | same price then all of a sudden it seems like that would be
           | the "great design".
           | 
           | Its not even really an amazing deal. In exchange for the
           | latest CPU you get essentially 8 year old LCD (with slightly
           | newer contrast ratio from ~7 years ago), the same old case
           | design with same old grade of aluminum and they exclude U1
           | co-processor. Also, camera seems like its from iPhone 7/8 as
           | well(5-6 yrs old but could be wrong about this)? Its only a
           | good deal because iOS is such a valuable ecosystem and the
           | fact that it grants you entry into that ecosystem at such a
           | low price makes the phone so much more alluring than it
           | really is.
        
             | joemi wrote:
             | re: "only real factor"... Among other differences between
             | the SE and the Mini, the Mini doesn't have touch ID button,
             | does it? The article mentions "I have already argued in the
             | past that I prefer this iPhone model over any newer one,
             | Face ID capable." So it would seem that the lack of touch
             | ID on the Mini would be a detriment to the author.
        
         | dontlaugh wrote:
         | I'd absolutely buy a mini, if it had Touch ID in the power
         | button.
         | 
         | The poor ergonomics of Face ID just don't compare.
        
       | ciconia wrote:
       | The best iPhone, or Android phone, you can get is the one you
       | inherit for free from a family member or a friend. I recently
       | upgraded my 7-year old Moto G play, which was getting a bit
       | flaky, to a 4-year old Samsung S9 that I got from my brother. It
       | works just fine, and will probably serve me for 3 more years
       | before I need to upgrade again.
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | I don't know how you guys can stand the iPhone SE, the thick
       | bezels at the top and bottom make it feel so claustrophobic.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | Love the S.
       | 
       | Carry the Galaxy S21. S is the work phone, but did I mention I
       | love it?
        
       | tootie wrote:
       | Counterpoint: any phone made in the past 5 years is just about
       | the same. I have a working 6 year old Motorola with a sturdy
       | battery and I've never felt it lacked anything I need. It runs
       | modern websites and apps just fine. I honestly have no idea what
       | people are talking about when they compare phone features these
       | days. There hasn't been a useful innovation since fingerprint
       | unlock.
        
       | rpgbr wrote:
       | I knew I wasn't the only one fond of small, cheap-but-great
       | phones! :)
       | 
       | Btw, this is my first post in English. I cover tech here in
       | Brazil for +10 years and run a +9 years old independent, self-
       | sustainable publication written in Portuguese. Now, I decided to
       | give it a shot in another language, despite still feeling
       | uncomfortable with my English. (I hope I haven't misspelled
       | anything!)
       | 
       | If you enjoyed this brief iPhone SE review, may I ask you to
       | subscribe to my blog's newsletter or its RSS feed? They are both
       | on site's footer. No spam ever, unsubscribe whenever you want.
       | 
       | Thanks!
        
         | emeril wrote:
         | still rocking my iPhone se 1st gen (though I painstakingly had
         | to change the battery on my own at the beginning of the
         | pandemic...)
         | 
         | it's even smaller than the newer ones!
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | Your English is indistinguishable from that of the top 10% of
         | writers or so. I had no reason to believe you are not a native
         | speaker until you linked to your page with photo samples
         | written in Portuguese.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > I had no reason to believe you are not a native speaker
           | 
           | "Now, I decided to give it a shot in another language" and
           | "may I ask you to subscribe to my blog's newsletter or its
           | RSS feed? They are both on site's footer." both read non-
           | native to me; I'd expect a native to say "Now, _I 've_
           | decided..." and "They are both in/on _the_ site 's footer".
           | 
           | But I agree with everyone else that rpgbr's English is
           | excellent, more than adequate to publish English-language
           | journalism. It is extremely difficult to get all the details
           | of a foreign language right every time, and in most cases
           | it's not a standard worth reaching or worrying about.
           | 
           | (And if you do worry about it... practice is the best way to
           | get there.)
        
         | di3goleite wrote:
         | Great post! I loved this reading. Btw, I'm Brazilian too. :D
        
         | pantulis wrote:
         | Great english, mate. Rock on!
        
         | paul7986 wrote:
         | Only thing I like about my 2nd iphone SE bought this year (had
         | the 2020 version) is that it has Touch ID.
         | 
         | Other then it's trash with low battery life and at times
         | becomes non-responsive like the SE 2020 did.
         | 
         | What is wrong with Apple .. every other smartphone has touch id
         | system. Its been five years and Touch ID for me is the best UX.
         | It is grab my phone without even looking at it and it's open.
         | Compared to grab it & swipe up while looking at it which is two
         | steps vs. one. Those two steps while driving is dangerous
         | (chide me all you want cause you use your phone when you drive
         | too .. either sometimes, to a little or a lot)!
        
         | soneca wrote:
         | It was cool to see your name when reading the post. I follow
         | Manual do Usuario on Twitter and I liked it a lot. The podcast
         | is great as well. Congrats on your work!
         | 
         | I am also very happy with my iPhone SE 2nd gen. I only migrated
         | from Android to iOS after they launched a cheap and small
         | model.
        
         | reidjs wrote:
         | Also a huge fan of the iPhone SE and will keep buying them
         | until they stop making them. Don't take my thumb print away
         | from me!!! I write a lot and it's slightly faster to unlock via
         | thumb (when it works) than face. Also it works in the dark, eg,
         | when you think of something in the middle of the night or when
         | your face is covered.
         | 
         | The only way to beat thumbprint is authentication via nfc, for
         | example using a biometric chip in your hand, but that's not
         | palatable for most ;).
         | 
         | Posted on a SE gen 2
        
           | spullara wrote:
           | FaceID also works in the dark and works with masks. Also
           | works when you have gloves on :)
        
             | Bud wrote:
             | Face ID doesn't work very well in the dark, and it's
             | especially awful if you're lying on your side using an iPad
             | in bed in the dark, since the angle is wrong.
             | 
             | Touch ID was markedly superior in contexts like this, in
             | addition to being easier to activate.
        
               | busymom0 wrote:
               | It works perfectly fine in dark. I use it every night. It
               | uses a very different tech than just a simple camera.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | FaceId works perfectly in pitch darkness. I just tried
               | it.
        
               | Angostura wrote:
               | Never had a problem with FaceID in the dark and I lie in
               | bed on my side
        
             | Macha wrote:
             | FaceID sounds way more reliable for you than it is for me.
             | It can't recognise me if I change my glasses.
        
             | rpgbr wrote:
             | Well, some iPhones work with masks -- my girlfriend's
             | iPhone 11 doesn't.
             | 
             | Gloves aren't necessary here :) I live in the (allegedly)
             | Brazil's coldest state capital, Curitiba, and you can get
             | through winter here without them.
        
               | jsjohnst wrote:
               | > Gloves aren't necessary here
               | 
               | Gloves are used in more scenarios than just cold weather,
               | motorcycle gloves for one example.
        
               | Aeolun wrote:
               | Wearing motorcycle gloves would make it impossible to
               | touch anything on your screen anyway?
        
               | sssilver wrote:
               | Most gloves accumulate enough dirt over time for touch to
               | start awkwardly working. Some newer ones have a layer
               | applied to the index finger to make it work.
               | 
               | Gloves are not the big problem, my experience is that
               | FaceID is useless when motorcycling because of the
               | helmet.
        
               | jsjohnst wrote:
               | > FaceID
               | 
               | We are talking about phones without FaceID here. This
               | article and thread are referencing the iPhone SE.
               | 
               | > my experience is that FaceID is useless when
               | motorcycling because of the helmet.
               | 
               | Seems to work fine for me when opening the visor. Do you
               | mean with it closed or open it's not working for you?
        
               | rpgbr wrote:
               | You're right. Anyway, I don't work or do anything that
               | calls for gloves -- haven't use them in... I don't know,
               | 20+ years?
        
               | 8ytecoder wrote:
               | I wear gloves when I ride my bicycle. Unlocking it is
               | necessary to access certain functions that you can invoke
               | with Siri. Even without Siri, most gloves these days are
               | designed to work with capacitive touch.
        
               | hosh wrote:
               | In those scenarios, might as well go with
               | https://www.catphones.com/en-us/cat-s22-flip/
        
             | Thlom wrote:
             | But doesn't work with sunglasses.
        
               | mjhagen wrote:
               | Yes it does.
        
             | raydev wrote:
             | I used to have my phone unlocked before it was even out of
             | my pocket. FaceID at its fastest (I have a 13 Pro) feels
             | slow.
             | 
             | I haven't had a TouchID phone since 2018 and I still miss
             | it. It never made me wait.
        
               | spullara wrote:
               | I rarely even think about FaceID whereas I had to
               | actually do something for TouchID. Better experience for
               | me and many others.
        
         | kylehotchkiss wrote:
         | Your english is great. I couldn't even tell it was written by a
         | non-native speaker. Keep writing! You have interesting things
         | to say.
        
         | NonNefarious wrote:
         | I had no idea. Your English is better than a lot of Web posts
         | from Americans, who can't even spell "too."
         | 
         | While I agree that the SE is Apple's best offering for the
         | money, the new one fails hard in one main way: ergonomics.
         | While the original SE (which I still use) has flat sides, the
         | current SE went back to the dumb rounded slippery edges. This
         | is a vestige of Jony Ive stupidity: make the phone ever-
         | thinner, then round the edges so it wants to flip sideways out
         | of your grip at all times. Oh, and make sure the screen isn't
         | recessed at all, so when it does flip out of your grip it is
         | sure to break.
         | 
         | Notice that Apple returned to the flat sides on all of its
         | current phones except the SE. It's almost as if they wanted
         | make the SE less appealing.
         | 
         | The lack of a Home button on the new iPhones is a massive pain
         | in the ass and a stupid regression, mainly for the lack of
         | Touch ID but also for app-switching.
        
           | rpgbr wrote:
           | Thanks!
           | 
           | Yeah, I also prefer the flat sides (miss my old iPhone 5),
           | but SE's rounded one isn't much a problem for me. Maybe I'm
           | too zealous, but in seven years using this type of phone,
           | I've never dropped one. (They dropped for another reasons,
           | such as sliding from a uneven table thanks to the glass back.
           | It survived without any scratch, anyway.)
        
           | gvurrdon wrote:
           | I would agree - the round edges are a PITA. The glass back
           | makes it very slippery as well. I'm using an 8 Plus still as
           | it has TouchID (I find FaceID far too creepy) and a large
           | screen, which helps with my failing eyesight. It would be
           | excellent to have something like this but with flat edges.
        
         | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
         | I want an iPhone SE sized phone with something similar to my
         | Ulefone Power Armor 13's battery life.
         | 
         | The Power Armor 13 weights nearly half a kilogram, and because
         | of this I almost never drip it - you certainly know you've got
         | hold of it, and the battery lasts so long I sometimes forget it
         | needs charging till I get a 15% warning somewhere around day
         | four to six.
        
         | AzzieElbab wrote:
         | I would go for cheaper phone but I really value good screen. I
         | read books on my phone. I don't like owning multiple mobile
         | devices just to read books
        
           | rjzzleep wrote:
           | I'm not sure where you live and what locale you want, but
           | depending on the LTE bands of your region, the Hisense A9 has
           | a fantastic eink screen. It's a Chinese OS with at parts
           | janky english translation.
        
             | _carbyau_ wrote:
             | Read a review, that A9 seems fantastic. Made by Nokia or
             | similar and I'd give it a go.
        
         | vizzah wrote:
         | Try iPhone 13 mini!
         | 
         | SE would have been my choice if Apple never released this
         | model.
         | 
         | Mini is slightly smaller than SE and it's a crucial factor for
         | me. And it also has more usable screen and where initially I
         | was wary of FaceID - I don't miss the button! :]
         | 
         | I hope Apple continues with SE+mini merged model for the
         | future.
        
           | ciropantera wrote:
           | How's the battery life? My wife got a 12 mini and while I
           | love the size, the battery is abysmal and barely lasts a day
           | for her.
        
           | whittingtonaaon wrote:
           | I use the 13 mini and am satisfied. The battery life is good,
           | which is important... but I actually prefer touchID to
           | faceID. The reason, I guess, is more consistent success and
           | no accidental unlocking. It's also nice to be able to unlock
           | a phone on your desk without picking it up.
        
             | WelcomeShorty wrote:
             | As a motorcyclist I can not even use FaceID with a full
             | face helmet and typing my access phrase is not an option
             | either so I can only use touchID.
        
               | thenewwazoo wrote:
               | At the cost of some potentially reduced security, I've
               | found that my iPhone will unlock while I'm wearing a
               | full-face helmet as long as the chin bar isn't too high
               | on my face, and the "unlock with a mask on" feature is
               | enabled. It's hit or miss, but I usually give it a shot
               | before pulling off a glove to passcode-unlock. It's worth
               | trying again, if you haven't in a while.
        
               | WelcomeShorty wrote:
               | Thanks, will give the "unlock with a mask on" feature a
               | shot.
        
             | nailer wrote:
             | As another point of data, I use the 13 mini and am
             | dissatisfied with the battery life. Listen to a podcast on
             | your commute and watch tiktok on your lunch break and
             | you'll be charging at 5PM.
        
           | augustk wrote:
           | The iPhone 13 Mini has those sharp pocket destroying edges
           | though.
        
             | atemerev wrote:
             | Well I am certainly not carrying a device with two fragile
             | glass surfaces without a protection case :( So it doesn't
             | matter at this point.
        
             | als0 wrote:
             | Are you for real? The edges are not sharp at all.
        
               | augustk wrote:
               | Not razor sharp but sharp enough to leave marks on your
               | trousers after some usage. Here is an example:
               | 
               | https://i.imgur.com/HZNUoVd.jpg
               | 
               | The iPhone SE has completely rounded edges which is more
               | pocket friendly in this regard.
        
               | busymom0 wrote:
               | Looks like it gave those jeans some character!
        
               | codesnik wrote:
               | You're talking about iPhone SE2, probably. I'm still
               | using original iPhone SE, and its shape is on every pair
               | of jeans I had in those 5 years.
        
           | adrian17 wrote:
           | > And it also has more usable screen
           | 
           | Funnily, after playing with both for a couple minutes in the
           | store, I decided on an SE exactly because of 13's screen.
           | Because of rounded corners, the way it rendered content
           | sometimes became downright ugly and didn't actually grant any
           | extra space: http://puu.sh/JdxXl/985552f316.jpg
        
             | dhritzkiv wrote:
             | That's true in that specific context (most websites in
             | Safari) in that specific orientation. The extra screen real
             | estate you get in native apps, or even Safari in portrait
             | orientation is not nothing.
        
           | rpgbr wrote:
           | I considered the 13 Mini, gave up due to two things: it's
           | (really) expensive here in Brazil, and its cameras (or its
           | main camera) isn't noticeable better than the one on SE. I
           | couldn't justify spending the extra money for pretty much the
           | same phone plus some niceties.
        
           | fauigerzigerk wrote:
           | I agree. The mini is smaller but has a larger screen than the
           | SE. Face ID works really well.
           | 
           | I just hope the 13 has better battery life than the 12. My 12
           | mini drains half the battery on idle within 24 hours if
           | mobile data is enabled.
        
             | simonh wrote:
             | I appreciate that's a fair concern, perfectly legitimate,
             | but how far we have come that only having half a charge
             | after 24 hours is disappointing.
        
               | fauigerzigerk wrote:
               | That's half a charge after leaving the phone idle for the
               | whole 24 hours. It's disappointing compared to previous
               | generations of iPhone and even compared to much cheaper
               | Android phones.
        
           | chasd00 wrote:
           | i'm not sure which one i have but i know i have hte mini form
           | factor and i love it. My wife and oldest son have the
           | gigantic tablet form factor and it feels like i may as well
           | be using an ipad hah. (and they hate using my phone too)
           | 
           | edit: settings -> general says it's an iphone 12 mini
        
         | justintoon wrote:
         | You spelled "misspelled" correctly, which earns a point in my
         | book because (in a profound display of irony) a lot of native
         | speakers misspell that one!
        
           | troad wrote:
           | "Misspelt" is the usual UK/Commonwealth spelling, if that's
           | the spelling you're referring to. "Misspelled" is the usual
           | North American variant. Both are correct!
        
             | moonbooth wrote:
             | Not the person to whom you're replying, but I think they
             | mean many English speakers misspell the word with only one
             | "s": "mispell" (sic), "mispelled" (sic), etc.
        
               | jonsen wrote:
               | Or three?
        
           | throwaheyy wrote:
           | Lol at the first time an American _tried to_ correct me on
           | this.
        
         | protonbob wrote:
         | Your English reads very well. I would not have known it wasn't
         | your first language if you hadn't mentioned that you were from
         | Brazil.
        
         | q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote:
         | Your writing is excellent. The grammar is almost flawless (see
         | below). Beyond that, I enjoyed your writing _style_ as well --
         | strong opening, thoughtful variations in paragraph length and
         | sentence structure, and generally concise and focused.
         | 
         | If you are interested in some small feedback to improve a
         | little more: the final three sentences in the article were the
         | only ones where I saw something that could be improved.
         | 
         | > I have already argued in the past that I prefer this iPhone
         | model over any newer one, Face ID capable.
         | 
         | I'm pretty sure this is grammatically correct as-is. (English
         | is funny like that...) Having said that, the more natural-
         | sounding way for a native-speaker would be to lose the
         | appositive and avoid trying to turn "Face ID" into an
         | adjective. So it would be something like: "I have already
         | argued in the past that I prefer this iPhone model over any
         | newer one with Face ID."
         | 
         | > It is perhaps the closest to a perfect gadget I have ever
         | used -- no wonder, it is the third "same" device I buy in seven
         | years (before, the iPhone 6S in 2015 and the iPhone 8 in 2017).
         | 
         | I'm pretty sure the verb tenses are _technically_ correct, but
         | the last bit is not how a native speaker would write it, and
         | there 's an extraneous comma. Instead of saying 'no wonder, it
         | is the the third "same" device I buy in seven years,' a more
         | native-speaker way of writing it would be: 'no wonder it's the
         | third "same" device I've bought in seven years.'
         | 
         | (EDIT: I was thinking about this a little more because
         | something about the sequence of words "third same device" still
         | didn't sound quite natural. Iterating, I think it could sound
         | even more natural like: 'no wonder I've bought the "same"
         | device three times over the last seven years.')
         | 
         | > If, despite all the rumors, in five years there is a "5th
         | generation iPhone SE" with this same look, but updated
         | internals, it will most likely be my next phone.
         | 
         | This sentence is solid and native-sounding as-is. A
         | professional editor, though, might object to the overwhelming
         | number of commas (even though all the commas are grammatically
         | correct!). They might suggest eliminating some of the
         | repetitive clauses and moving things around a bit to make the
         | sentence flow more smoothly. The end result might be something
         | like this: 'If, despite all the rumors, there's a "5th
         | generation iPhone SE" in five years with the same look and
         | another round of updated internals, it will most likely be my
         | next phone.'
         | 
         | I hope that's all helpful and not _too_ nitpicky. Like I said,
         | your writing is fantastic as it is! I 'm looking forward to
         | reading more.
        
           | stripline wrote:
           | Great reply. I agree that the writing in the post is
           | excellent. While we're giving constructive feedback I'd add
           | this sentence:
           | 
           | > I cover tech here in Brazil for +10 years and run a +9
           | years old independent,
           | 
           | It should be past tense "I've covered", and in English we do
           | everything backwards so 10+ and 9+ are more natural. So I'd
           | change that to:
           | 
           | I've covered tech here in Brazil for 10+ years and run a 9+
           | years old independent,
        
           | rpgbr wrote:
           | That's a great feedback! Thanks for it, I'll edit the post :)
        
           | alister wrote:
           | > no wonder, it is the third "same" device I buy in seven
           | years
           | 
           | > no wonder it's the third "same" device I've bought in seven
           | years
           | 
           | > no wonder I've bought the "same" device three times over
           | the last seven years
           | 
           | I liked your critique a lot: showing progressively better
           | sentences and explaining why each is better. As a native
           | English speaker learning Brazilian Portuguese, I have the
           | inverse problem of the OP. I'd like to find a book or app
           | that does more or less what you did ---- start with a
           | moderately difficult sentence in Portuguese the way an
           | English speaker might say it, then progressively improve it
           | while explaining the reasoning along the way.
           | 
           | Maybe such a thing exists for people learning English; I can
           | confidently say that there is an order of magnitude more
           | resources for people going from Portuguese to English than
           | the other way around.
        
             | rpgbr wrote:
             | Oh, good luck with that! You've probably heard this, but
             | Portuguese grammar is super hard. Except for teachers,
             | enthusiasts, and academics, I guess nobody here really
             | knows, let alone explain most of our grammar rules.
             | 
             | Speaking for myself, as a journalist who've written for
             | major outlets in Brazil, I get away with writing (mostly)
             | correctly based on feeling (reading a lot also helps a
             | lot!).
        
         | skavi wrote:
         | I was considering commenting how much I enjoyed your writing
         | style as I was reading the article. I had no idea you were a
         | non-native speaker.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | idle_zealot wrote:
         | Your English is generally quite good. The one thing I'll note
         | is that I've not seen native speakers use notation like "+10
         | years" in the context you do. Generally we'd write that as "10+
         | years" read as "ten-plus years" or ">10 years" read as "over
         | ten years".
        
           | wbercx wrote:
           | How would you interpret "+/- 10 years"?
        
             | simonh wrote:
             | +10 years could be interpreted as 10 years in the future,
             | and makes perfect sense in that context, but -10 years for
             | the past seems weird. I'm not sure why.
        
             | Macha wrote:
             | As a margin of error.
             | 
             | "this tree was planted 200 years ago, +/- 10 years" -> the
             | tree was planted between 190 and 210 years ago.
             | 
             | "this comet will next be seen in 100 years, +/- 10" -> The
             | comet will visible between 90 and 110 years from now.
        
               | wbercx wrote:
               | Yeah, interesting. In The Netherlands it is commonly used
               | to mean "more or less", or "approximately", unless it is
               | used in formulas.
        
               | davidbanham wrote:
               | For "approximately 10 years" I would note it as ~10.
               | Native Australian English speaker.
        
             | wingerlang wrote:
             | I don't think they are comparable really.
             | 
             | 10+ years means over ten years.
             | 
             | +/- 10 years is an addition/subtraction and making a range.
        
           | rpgbr wrote:
           | Thanks for the tip! I guess I use "+10 years" because of how
           | we say in Portuguese ("mais de 10 anos", as the "more than"
           | comes first than the "10 years").
        
           | oxygenoxy wrote:
           | I suppose more people would read ">10 years" as "more than 10
           | years"?
        
         | eyelidlessness wrote:
         | Your English is excellent, and I was surprised to learn that
         | it's not your first language!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Casteil wrote:
         | I love my SE 2 - I've had it for ~2.5 yrs now and I'll most
         | likely have it for another 2+. It's a very fast phone, and I
         | like the relatively small form factor compared to most other
         | phones these days that all seem to have colossal screens and
         | are comically large when held up to the ear.
         | 
         | I'll also take TouchID any day over FaceID. The one thing that
         | would get me to upgrade before 2+ yrs from now (other than
         | unexpected failure of my SE 2) is a 13 Mini-like iPhone with
         | touchID.
        
       | quickthrower2 wrote:
       | Yes I chose the SE for my latest phone after the X packed up (it
       | was a refurb and I think that was the reason).
       | 
       | Anyway the main things I like:
       | 
       | * Price per performance (Paid about US$482 for this from a
       | discount retailer).
       | 
       | * No notch
       | 
       | * Older-style interface and gestures which I think are more user-
       | friendly. E.g. double tap button to see running apps.
       | 
       | * A button!
       | 
       | What I dislike:
       | 
       | * When playing some games the screen seems more friction-y which
       | can hamper precision.
        
       | pjerem wrote:
       | FaceID works great but I miss TouchID for one unique reason :
       | with Touch ID, the Apple Pay UX is pure genius : just take your
       | phone in your pocket with the thumb on the button. Place it on
       | top of the payment terminal. You are done.
       | 
       | With Touch ID you have to prepare the phone by unlocking it
       | before making the payment. Which means that you have to stare at
       | your phone while you are interacting with the merchant. It's odd
       | and unnatural.
       | 
       | Well, it's not that bad neither really important but the initial
       | UX was wonderful in its objectification of the phone as a
       | convenient payment method.
       | 
       | (And don't talk me about Apple Watch, payment experience is
       | terribly unnatural as it means making weird moves with your
       | wrist).
        
         | h3daz wrote:
         | I just double-click the right-hand side button in my pocket,
         | then double-check this is the correct card - thus unlocking the
         | phone by me looking at it. Do it everyday without issues
        
         | what-the-grump wrote:
         | FaceID, sucks. It pulls attention away from whatever I am doing
         | and forces me to fully stop. I hate it so much that I am
         | seriously considering using a pixel 3 as a soft token/rsa fob.
         | 
         | I have dozens of mfa codes 5 apps, requiring me to stop, look
         | at my phone wait for it find my ugly face so I can click 'yes
         | it me', in Okta, MS Authenticator, Duo, Google Authenticator,
         | Symantec VIP, is ridiculous.
         | 
         | I want my freaking 6s with a phone jack. /endrant
        
           | whywhywhywhy wrote:
           | I'm suspecting FaceID on my phone is also unlocking itself
           | after I've locked it on its way back to my pocket.
           | 
           | I'll take it out, pay. Lock it and pocket it. Then later hear
           | it's started playing music or find half typed gibberish
           | messages or random phone numbers because it's been activating
           | in my pocket.
           | 
           | Never happened on any iPhones I've owned till I got the 11
           | with FaceID
        
         | neither_color wrote:
         | FaceID is also still terrible if you need/want to wear masks,
         | even with the updates it still doesn't recognize your face half
         | the time. Likewise, the FaceID with mask recognition may work
         | to unlock your phone but then NOT work to open the APP whose
         | notification you clicked on in the first place.
        
         | cnity wrote:
         | I wonder if you could fingerprint hand movements. Then you
         | wouldn't even have to strategically place your thumb.
        
       | canbus wrote:
       | Recently replaced a screen and battery on my old iphone 8 and it
       | has become my daily driver. It works really well! I don't really
       | think a phone needs to be any bigger than this design.
        
       | fanf2 wrote:
       | I have an iPhone 13 mini and an iPad mini. The iPhone is a handy
       | size but my eyes are ageing so it is not always easy to read. But
       | Face ID is just annoying. The iPad's combination of Touch ID and
       | USB-C is much more convenient.
        
       | polishdude20 wrote:
       | I'm still rocking my pixel 2. Best phone I've had and still going
       | strong with the original battery. Great android experience, not
       | too big and the photos are still awesome.
        
       | mrmincent wrote:
       | The SE is great, both my parents received one each for their
       | birthdays this year. Nice bright display, a button to help escape
       | any stuck programs, and a great new camera for them to take
       | pictures of caravans, cactuses, and kids. I've got an iPhone 11
       | and will probably sidegrade to an SE in the next year or two, and
       | the space in my pockets will thank me for it.
        
       | tcmart14 wrote:
       | I got an iPhone SE last year (my first iPhone) and so far it has
       | been a great phone. Probably one of the best phone's I've had and
       | well worth the value. I've had some of the flagship Pixels, and
       | they were fine. For my own use case, cost for flagship models
       | versus what I use it for don't match up very well. The iPhone SE
       | is great in this area. It isn't an expensive phone and powerful.
       | Sure it has less features than the flagship iPhones, but they are
       | features I wouldn't use anyways.
        
       | commoner wrote:
       | > It is a crazy strategy of Apple to put the "brains" of its most
       | expensive phone, the iPhone 13 Pro Max (+USD 1.099), in its entry
       | model, low cost (USD 429). No other company does this.
       | 
       | The $449 Pixel 6a, which was released today, has the same Tensor
       | chip as the $899 Pixel 6 Pro. This is advertised prominently on
       | the product page:
       | 
       | https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_6a
        
         | Bud wrote:
         | True, although that Tensor chip is around 24 months behind
         | Apple's chips, and the gap is getting wider and wider.
        
         | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
         | But that chip is not as good as the apple one. In fact not even
         | close.
         | 
         | The battery life on that one is atrocious compared to the apple
         | one.
        
           | borissk wrote:
           | On the other hand it can do live voice translation without an
           | internet connection. Can Apple do that?
        
             | pineconebutt wrote:
        
             | white_dragon88 wrote:
             | More importantly, who cares? You're describing an insanely
             | rare edge case.
        
             | jibbers wrote:
             | Yep.
             | 
             | https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/translate-text-
             | voice-...
        
             | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
             | I feel Apple actually does more on device ML stuff than
             | Google devices.
        
         | throw7 wrote:
         | yeah, but they screwed up everything else about the 6a. it's
         | clear it was just a dump on the bang per value sector. I would
         | have jumped to a 6a if they designed it for the sector but they
         | clearly did not.
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | Yeah but it's Google, it's probably Naive, but I just hate the
         | company and the business model.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | That also makes them wrong, which is still true regardless
           | about how you feel about the companies. Besides, it's a
           | ridiculous statement anyways: for example, Nothing's first
           | phone is coming out soon, which means their most expensive
           | and cheapest phones will be running the same chip. Failing
           | that, there's dozens of Android companies that made lines of
           | handsets using the exact same SOC (like ZTE) because it's
           | cheap to develop. Regardless of the companies involved,
           | saying they're the "only one that does this" is like saying
           | your local diner is the only one making you a real
           | cheesesteak.
        
             | bamboozled wrote:
             | Did you mean to respond to my comment? Beause if so, I have
             | no idea how to interpret it or what your point is.
        
         | xyzzy123 wrote:
         | I don't think it's crazy though; I think it reflects that in
         | software / OS development you save a lot of dev & qa time by
         | minimising your hardware fragmentation.
         | 
         | Also that if you have special sauce (eg a tensor chip), you
         | want to give it to all users if you can, or developers won't
         | bother optimising for it.
        
           | fomine3 wrote:
           | It's also true for hardware. I think this is primary reason
           | rather than software because bleeding edge SoC R&D fixed cost
           | should be higher.
        
         | wlesieutre wrote:
         | Though if the iPhone SE 2016 and the Pixel 3a are anything to
         | go by, the new iPhone SE will probably have software support
         | for 2x or longer than the Pixel 6a.
        
           | cowtools wrote:
           | The pixel 3a is still supported by AOSP distros like CalyxOS:
           | 
           | https://calyxos.org/install/
        
             | ascagnel_ wrote:
             | While I appreciate that some phones can be supported by the
             | community, I think it's unreasonable to expect that the
             | community continue support in place of OEMs. Especially
             | ones like Google, that can set the tenor for the entire
             | Android ecosystem.
        
             | hgazx wrote:
             | No SafetyNet, so useless for some of us.
        
               | commoner wrote:
               | As of May 2022, SafetyNet basic attestation works on
               | CalyxOS by default for the Pixel 3a and later:
               | 
               | https://calyxos.org/news/2022/05/07/location-safetynet-
               | fix/
        
           | initplus wrote:
           | Even on the latest model Pixel phones Google still refuses to
           | commit to more than 3 years of Android updates... They have
           | at least lengthened the security update timeline to a whole 5
           | years.
           | 
           | I bought an iphone around the launch of the Pixel 4, which is
           | now nearing it's end of support. Meanwhile Apple has provided
           | the latest updates to devices that launched 7 years ago.
        
             | syrrim wrote:
             | The difference being that since every app dev expects
             | iphones to be on the latest ios version, as soon as your
             | phone goes out of support it will become obsolete quickly.
             | Android has a larger install base of users on old os
             | versions, so you can expect support even if you aren't on
             | the latest one. New ios versions usually have the
             | disadvantage of being poorly optimized for older models,
             | and I personally have never cared much about the new
             | features. So staying on the old os version indefinitely
             | might be a better option as long as apps still support it.
        
             | MAGZine wrote:
             | I could be wrong but I think qualcomm is the biggest
             | obstacle for google in supporting older phone versions.
             | 
             | they won't ship updated drivers for new android versions
             | for old phones.
        
               | borissk wrote:
               | And they will charge OEMs quite a big sum for every new
               | Android versions on an old phone.
               | 
               | But given that Google now uses their own SOCs, rather
               | than Qualcomms, they can provide updates for their phones
               | for a lot longer.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | jcfrei wrote:
       | On a related note: recently bought an iphone and specifically
       | bought the standard one and not the pro. now I've noticed that
       | macro shots are a lot lower quality than on (older) iphone pros
       | or even my old samsung s8. does anybody know whether that's on
       | purpose?
        
       | jmkni wrote:
       | This is exactly why I like the 13" Apple Silicon Macbook Pro, it
       | looks boring, if you saw me using one you'd probably assume it
       | was 5 years old and had an i5 in it or something, but actually an
       | insanely good laptop.
        
       | King-Aaron wrote:
       | Genuine question, what's the best phone to look at currently if
       | the camera is your main focus on a device? I'm past the point of
       | caring about speed or storage, as its all much of a muchness now
       | I feel... But I want an actual camera that just happens to have a
       | phone attached to it.
        
         | fomine3 wrote:
         | Photo or video? I heard that there are many competitive devices
         | for photo, but iPhone is seems to the best for video.
        
           | King-Aaron wrote:
           | Yeah mainly still photo, it would be super handy to have
           | video that can be used along side our other camera footage
           | though (a friend and I do a lot of automotive mechanical
           | youtubing so having phone video is occasionally handy). I had
           | heard that the iphone is really good with it, I might need to
           | have a play with the 13.
        
         | victor106 wrote:
         | iPhone 13 pro,
         | 
         | Not everyone's choice but I love it
        
       | mattmar96 wrote:
       | I had the same iPhone SE for about a year or so. I would have
       | said all the same things as the author about it while I owned it.
       | But, after it got damaged and I replaced it with an iPhone 13 Pro
       | I have to say I much prefer the Pro. The only thing I miss is
       | Touch ID but the 120hz oled screen, multiple cameras, and far
       | better battery life more than make up for it. I don't mean to be
       | a downer about the SE. I was just happily surprised with this new
       | phone.
        
       | 1270018080 wrote:
       | I can't understand how just about everyone in America is okay
       | with needing 2 hands to use a phone. If they ever get rid of the
       | mini line I don't know what I'll do.
        
       | sq_ wrote:
       | Curious about this quote:
       | 
       | > The only feature that Apple has denied for any reason other
       | than technical is night mode when taking pictures at low light,
       | absent here.
       | 
       | I was under the impression that night mode more or less required
       | the 2+ camera package of the current phones in order to gather
       | enough light, depth, etc. information for it work well. Given
       | what the author said, I guess I was wrong about that... anyone
       | with some image processing knowledge able to elaborate a bit on
       | how night mode works?
        
       | jrm4 wrote:
       | Can we officially lay to rest the egregiously stupid, but often
       | parroted economic notion of "consumer preference" being the
       | ultimate driver of everything? By now it's quite clear that "the
       | range and variety of cell phones people would buy" is far wider
       | that what we actually have.
        
       | testmasterflex wrote:
       | From article: "The 3rd gen iPhone SE can take pictures with the
       | background blurred and identify text directly from the
       | viewfinder."
       | 
       | What does author mean on both here?
        
       | bri3d wrote:
       | Besides the economic / niche issues - I love my iPhone mini, I
       | loved my Xperia compact, apparently people on HN also love their
       | minis, SEs, and compacts, but nobody else does - there are real
       | technical problems with making small phones.
       | 
       | We seem to have reached a local minima with phone mainboard/CPU
       | size. Generation over generation, the last 2-3 years worth of
       | phones share similarly sized logic boards. So, as more and more
       | internal footprint is dedicated to camera hardware, less and less
       | is available for battery.
       | 
       | As phone chipsets appear to have also bottomed out on TDP and
       | idle power, this means that either battery life gets worse,
       | cameras get cut even more, or phones get bigger. Unless or until
       | Apple make a small-phone _specific_ processor and introduce a new
       | process with a stripped-down CPU (which will make the same HN
       | readers mad, eye-roll), we're back to giant phones for now.
        
       | acd wrote:
       | I miss three things from new iphones:
       | 
       | * The 3.5mm headphone jack for plugging in wired headphones.
       | Wired headphones often last longer than wireless headphones.
       | 
       | * The physical home button, way easier to use than gestures.
       | 
       | * The full length status icon bar. On newer iphones not all icons
       | are shown only a few. Which means you cant see if the VPN icon is
       | connected/visible. Old iphones had full length icon bar.
        
         | slategruen wrote:
         | Still holding on to my 6s though not as a main driver exactly
         | because of these reasons.
        
           | M3t0r wrote:
           | Same here. Gotta replace the battery some time soon, but
           | still _very_ happy with it. If it should ever break, this SE
           | generation looks like the best replacement option.
        
       | pkdpic wrote:
       | I just miss that 8th inch jack... and I would have bought one if
       | it had a jucier camera... still love it tho SEsquad for life
        
       | yreg wrote:
       | For years I want Apple to release a grid of four phones
       | consumer    | pro         ====================+==============
       | ~6"   || iPhone      | iPhone Pro
       | ------+-------------+--------------         ~5"   || iPhone mini
       | | iPhone mini Pro
       | 
       | I get that battery will be always better on the larger phones,
       | but I don't see a reason why the best camera should be available
       | only on the largest phone.
       | 
       | People who want small phones don't necessarily want a cheap phone
       | and people who want a cheap phone don't necessarily want a small
       | one.
       | 
       | Apple has done this before, when the mac lineup was all over the
       | place and they rehired Steve. He cleared it up into this simple
       | grid:                             consumer | pro
       | ===================+==============         desktop || iMac     |
       | Power Mac G3          --------+----------+--------------
       | laptop  || iBook    | Powerbook G3
        
         | sgjohnson wrote:
         | Their "pro" phones are also for consumers.
         | 
         | "Pro" hasn't meant "professional" in a very long time.
        
           | yreg wrote:
           | There's no such thing as a professional phone user. In
           | Apple's nomenclature "pro" means the more expensive and
           | better model.
        
             | sgjohnson wrote:
             | My point exactly.
        
       | leowoo91 wrote:
       | I am happy with my iphone8 which is equivalent of SE with a
       | larger screen, however saddened by the fact that I always have to
       | clean up its charging port and its square casing of the original
       | wired headphone I prefer to use..
        
       | seehafer wrote:
       | Another iPhone SE fan here. Among all the other benefits listed
       | in this post, there's also no notch. I hate the notch and I can't
       | believe Apple industrial design is fine with it being a permanent
       | feature of its products.
        
         | lostgame wrote:
         | I am positive it isn't permanent - but _damn_ if it isn't
         | awful, ugly; and the complete antithesis to Apple's usually
         | extraordinary design decisions.
        
       | saagarjha wrote:
       | I am incredibly upset that this person decided to write up an
       | article about "the best iPhone", correctly recognized that the
       | best iPhone has an "SE" in its name, then decided to show a
       | picture of something else? Everyone knows iPhone SE has an
       | ergonomic 4" Retina display, chamfered edges, and a blazing fast
       | A9 processor, NVMe storage, and 2 GB of RAM, similar to its more
       | expensive and slightly older sibling.
        
       | SllX wrote:
       | I rocked the previous iteration of the SE for just over a year
       | since my previous phone was in dire need of a battery replacement
       | and I didn't want to figure out how Apple was handling that mid-
       | pandemic. I reasoned at the time that I needed a phone with Touch
       | ID because I didn't yet have an Apple Watch, and I was using my
       | phone as my wallet.
       | 
       | It was a good phone that served me well primarily as 1. A wallet
       | 2. An Overcast player and 3. A phone in approximately that order
       | whose shortcomings became immediately apparent the moment I
       | started going outside and socializing without a mask again in the
       | Summer of 2021. The screen and battery for example were both
       | downgrades from my 6s+.
       | 
       | I'm rocking an iPhone 13 Pro Max now primarily because I demand a
       | lot more of my phone when I'm actually not living in a cave, and
       | I fully appreciate having a giant screen, an enormous battery, a
       | bunch of power saving tech like the variable refresh rate screen
       | and a very fancy triple-lens camera. All things that are
       | irrelevant when your phone lives in a dock for a year. The
       | magnetic wallet attachments are a nice touch that carry a few
       | cards but also serve to round out the back of the phone in such a
       | way as to provide a better grip and stabilize the phone on a
       | surface.
       | 
       | The iPhone SE is a very good phone and a very good value, but
       | "best" changes depending on your circumstances and lifestyle. I
       | couldn't rock an SE without constantly managing the battery,
       | something which was an issue when I wanted to record some video
       | at my best friend's wedding reception after carefully
       | micromanaging the battery all day. With the 13 Pro Max I can walk
       | out early in the morning and not even think about the battery at
       | any point in the day, letting the phone do all the background
       | tasks it wants to make my life easier, downloading anything at
       | all in the background over 5G and have plenty of charge left when
       | I get home in the evening. It feels like a phone without
       | compromises, but all of that can be mooted by a change in life
       | circumstances.
        
       | LtWorf wrote:
       | In a novel by an obviously feminist author, they were having
       | smaller phones when women had to make phones. As if phones do fit
       | in men's hands -_-
       | 
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53717123-the-end-of-men
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | I guess in this utopia, women still don't get reasonable sized
         | pockets?
         | 
         | That's pretty much how it went in the 50's feminist bastion
         | Devil Girl From Mars.
        
       | bschwindHN wrote:
       | The article is correct in that the iPhone SE is the best iPhone,
       | but it's the 2016 version which is best :)
       | 
       | Cheaper, smaller, still runs iOS 15, and has a headphone jack.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | flenserboy wrote:
       | Very happy with my SE 2, other than battery life. A $20-on-
       | clearance external pack, which is about the size of the phone and
       | can be stowed away, makes for a good combination. The larger
       | phones look nice, but that's not enough.
        
       | karimmaassen wrote:
       | I'm a BIG fan of my 13 mini. Bought it last December and
       | absolutely love the small form factor. The battery is no problem
       | at all, even with extensive use. I easily have 20% or more left
       | at the end of the day and it's not even an issue when having it
       | used for CarPlay.
       | 
       | I'm saddened by the idea there will never be a mini again.
        
         | nebula8804 wrote:
         | What makes you think there will never be a mini again? Yeah
         | Apple won't release a 14 mini from the rumors it seems but
         | there is always a chance of another mini coming down the line a
         | few models from now.
        
       | bironran wrote:
       | Not having the Touch ID lose Apple at least one, if not more,
       | upgrades. At least in my case. I'm on an iPhone 7 that's
       | definitely showing it's age. I would e upgraded a long time ago
       | but held off "because maybe the next version will have Touch ID
       | back."
       | 
       | Well, that never happened and I'm now in the position of having
       | to upgrade a phone that's starting to crash due to battery
       | issues, will probably be out of iOS updates in September and is
       | frankly getting too slow for even simple yet surprisingly power
       | demanding apps.
       | 
       | I don't know what I'll upgrade to. Likely an iPhone, but which? I
       | hate buying something that's not the current generation but the
       | thought of having to deal with Face ID multiple times a day
       | leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
        
         | ibash wrote:
         | Can confirm, moved from an iPhone 7 to a 13 mini, Face ID fails
         | ~40% of the time, it sucks.
        
         | williamjackson wrote:
         | The iPhone SE, described in the article, has Touch ID.
        
           | bironran wrote:
           | Yeah, but "not latest tech". Hard to swallow that.
        
             | rpgbr wrote:
             | Most of latest tech? I found it to be a great upgrade
             | coming from the iPhone 8: overall faster, slightly better
             | battery life, better camera with a few new tricks. As I
             | wrote in the article, I wouldn't mind upgrading every four
             | or five years to new versions of this phone with newer
             | internals. It just works.
        
             | williamjackson wrote:
             | I guess it depends on which "tech" specifically you care
             | about. The jump from an iPhone 7 to the 3rd gen SE will
             | probably feel amazing, considering it has the same SoC as
             | all the iPhone 13 models. Sure, the SE doesn't have the
             | nice camera system like the high end models, but again,
             | coming from a 7, it will be quite an improvement for you.
        
       | bluescrn wrote:
       | I still miss the headphone jack.
        
       | yuy910616 wrote:
       | I have the iphone 8 - love it. I'm planning to own it for the
       | long haul and make the jump from 8 to 18 (when it comes out).
       | 
       | Thank you Tim for making this a 10 year wait, and not 20
        
       | jonbaer wrote:
       | IMO, the only thing missing from the SE is the U1 chip for NI
        
       | Aperocky wrote:
       | I paddleboard so I bought a iPhone 12 mini so it doesn't weigh
       | down my pocket that much.
       | 
       | It continued the spirit of the SE.
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | Agree with OP completely. Also, with iCloud I found the 64G
       | version absolutely usable. I always used to max out the memory on
       | my phones because I have a huge photo album, but iCloud support
       | swaps the pictures in and out of memory quickly and
       | transparently.
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | I have a 12 mini. It's so good. Then I got the 13 pro for the
       | better camera and I can't go back to 60hz displays. It's like
       | something is visibly wrong with any screen that doesn't do more
       | than 60hz any more. And the 14" macbook pro has higher refresh
       | rate but the ghosting is so bad it renders it pretty much moot.
        
       | dyeje wrote:
       | I bought an SE 3 as my first iPhone recently. Very happy with it,
       | it's hard to find a good, small phone these days.
        
       | di3goleite wrote:
       | My iPhone SE is the 2nd gen one. I love this phone, despite some
       | ocasional lags when I try to do some app switch or when I try to
       | take a picture suddenly. Is anyone here facing these same
       | problems? I really enjoy this phone, but seems Apple is trying to
       | force me to make an unnecessary upgrade.
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | I bought a second gen SE on craigslist while waiting for a
         | screen for my Xs Max. I'm using it right now as a secondary
         | device and don't notice any particularly common lags on the
         | SE2.
         | 
         | Battery health is down to 89%, meaning it was a little annoying
         | to use as a daily while traveling but that was my only
         | complaint (and I'd have no problem replacing the battery to
         | alleviate that if I wanted to keep using it as primary).
        
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